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View Full Version : ATC Disqualification


skydolphin
08-01-2018, 06:10 AM
I'll make this long story short. I was recently disqualified by the FAA as an applicant of ATC. I was disqualified because the test gave them signs of a possible personality disorder, as well as a few times I've fainted years ago, they classified as faint spells. I've never been diagnosed with anything for either. I've been to a psychologist, who didn't mention anything about a personality disorder. I've had brain and heart test, as well as CAT scans done for the fainting, as requested for the FAA. The results all came back negative, as each time I fainted I didn't eat but of course I had to disclose everything. All doctors signed papers clearing me. I am currently disputing the disqualification.

Flying has always been my dream. I started flying prior to ATC. ATC was a backup due to lack of training funds for flight school. With me being disqualified from ATC, would that also disqualify me from being a pilot? How can I justify there's nothing wrong with me?


Excargodog
08-01-2018, 07:31 AM
ATC was a backup due to lack of training funds for flight school. With me being disqualified from ATC, would that also disqualify me from being a pilot?

In a word, yes. Certainly an airline transport pilot and commercial pilot and quite possibly even as a private pilot.



How can I justify there's nothing wrong with me?


You've made the long story too short for anyone to be able to tell. What SPECIFICALLY did your disqualification letter say?

EMAW
08-01-2018, 07:34 AM
I'll make this long story short. I was recently disqualified by the FAA as an applicant of ATC. I was disqualified because the test gave them signs of a possible personality disorder, as well as a few times I've fainted years ago, they classified as faint spells. I've never been diagnosed with anything for either. I've been to a psychologist, who didn't mention anything about a personality disorder. I've had brain and heart test, as well as CAT scans done for the fainting, as requested for the FAA. The results all came back negative, as each time I fainted I didn't eat but of course I had to disclose everything. All doctors signed papers clearing me. I am currently disputing the disqualification.

Flying has always been my dream. I started flying prior to ATC. ATC was a backup due to lack of training funds for flight school. With me being disqualified from ATC, would that also disqualify me from being a pilot? How can I justify there's nothing wrong with me?

Most definitely if you are denied a medical for ATC, youíll be denied one as a pilot. Did they deny your appeal after you sent everything in, or are you awaiting their decision? The only thing you can do is provide what they ask and take care of yourself.


rickair7777
08-01-2018, 08:03 AM
Fainting:

Unexplained loss of consciousness (LOC) can be worse than LOC with a clear explanation and resolution. I've seen the FAA make guys wait three years to get a medical back after an LOC.

Fainting could be due to factors such as illness (ex. flu), lack of food, dehydration, maybe poor nutrition, even serious cardio exercise. Some endurance athletes can get lightheaded or even faint if the stand up suddenly (they generally learn not to stand up too fast). If you think any of those apply I would change your lifestyle, and try to plead your case. But unless you can get a doc to buy off on it, you're probably looking at waiting a few years with no further LOC before the FAA will consider you.

Might want to talk to an aviation medicine consultant.


Personality Disorder:

Was that determined by ATC with a written evaluation? Many employers do personality/psych screens but that is weak science and in no way diagnostic. They are mainly looking for a good personality/cultural "fit" for their organization or the job in question.

Pilot medicals do not normally involve any formal psychiatric analysis, although the AMEs do specifically engage you in conversation just to verify that you seem normal. If you have an actual legit diagnosis, you need to report that of course.

I would again probably talk to a consultant to see if the "personality disorder" thing actually amounts to a diagnosis, or was just some HR vodoo to meet their hiring agenda. I suspect the later but since there's a federal agency involved you want all your ducks in a row.

skydolphin
08-01-2018, 08:06 AM
In a word, yes. Certainly an airline transport pilot and commercial pilot and quite possibly even as a private pilot.






You've made the long story too short for anyone to be able to tell. What SPECIFICALLY did your disqualification letter say?

I was disqualified because the MMPI-2 test gave them signs of a possible personality disorder, as well as a few times I've fainted years ago, they classified as faint spells.

skydolphin
08-01-2018, 08:07 AM
Most definitely if you are denied a medical for ATC, youíll be denied one as a pilot. Did they deny your appeal after you sent everything in, or are you awaiting their decision? The only thing you can do is provide what they ask and take care of yourself.

I am still waiting on their decision.

skydolphin
08-01-2018, 08:08 AM
Unexplained loss of consciousness (LOC) can be worse than LOC with a clear explanation and resolution. I've seen the FAA make guys wait three years to get a medical back after an LOC.

Fainting could be due to factors you can manage such as lack of food, dehydration, maybe poor nutrition, even serious cardio exercise. Some endurance athletes can get lightheaded or even faint if the stand up suddenly (they generally learn not to stand up too fast). If you think any of those apply I would change your lifestyle, and try to plead your case. But unless you can get a doc to buy off on it, you're probably looking at waiting a few years with no further LOC before the FAA will consider you.

Might want to talk to an aviation medicine consultant.

Thank you, I'll definitely try to locate one.

Excargodog
08-01-2018, 09:09 AM
I am still waiting on their decision.

Which is it? Have you been disqualified ot are you still awaiting their decision. If the former, PRECISELY what does the disqualification letter say. If the latter, no one can give you advice until you can tell what their rationale for disqualification is.

You seem to use a lot if generalities in a situation where only specifics will be helpful. We get that you don't like the process and are apprehensive about the outcome, but that's not adequate information to provide meaningful advice.

skydolphin
08-01-2018, 11:22 AM
Which is it? Have you been disqualified ot are you still awaiting their decision. If the former, PRECISELY what does the disqualification letter say. If the latter, no one can give you advice until you can tell what their rationale for disqualification is.

You seem to use a lot if generalities in a situation where only specifics will be helpful. We get that you don't like the process and are apprehensive about the outcome, but that's not adequate information to provide meaningful advice.

I've been disqualified, I appealed, and I'm awaiting the appeal decision.

It states:

"You are medically disqualified for air traffic control duties due to an assessment of the presence of maladaptive personality traits that rise to the level of a personality disorder, which is was not possible to thoroughly evaluate during your Tier 2 psychological evaluation. Additionally, you have a history of unexplained fainting spells that are medically disqualifying.

A diagnosis of personality disorder is incompatible with the performance of safety related Air Traffic Control Specialist duties. The applicable medical standards are in FAA Order 3930.3b, Air Traffic Control Specialist Health Program, Appendix A, 5g: "other personality disorder, neurosis, or other mental condition that the FAS, based on the case history and appropriate qualified medical judgement relating to the condition involved, makes the person unable to perform air traffic control duties." IAW FAA Order 3930.3b, Appendix A, 6, a, (2) "a disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory medical explanation of cause" also is disqualifying."

skydolphin
08-01-2018, 06:00 PM
Iím waiting on a response to my appeal.

ďAfter review of your physical examination and all available information, I have concluded that you are medically disqualified for air traffic control duties due an assessment of the presence of maladaptive personality traits that rise to the level of a personality disorder, which it was not possible to thoroughly evaluate during your Tier 2 psychological evaluation. Additionally, you have a history of unexplained fainting spells that are medically disqualifying.

A diagnosis of personality disorder is incompatible with the performance of safety related Air Traffic Control Specialist duties. The applicable medical standards are in FAA Order 3930.3b, Air Traffic Control Specialist Health Program, Appendix A, 5g: "other personality disorder, neurosis, or other mental condition that the FAS, based on the case history and appropriate qualified medical judgment relating to the condition involved, makes the person unable to safely perform air traffic control duties." IAW FAA Order 3930.3b, Appendix A, 6, a, (2) ďa disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory medical explanation of the causeĒ also is disqualifying.Ē


Is what it states.

MugsyMD
08-10-2018, 07:23 AM
So as for LOC - did you document this on any formal forms with the FAA such the medical exam when applying for ATC. And, is there REALLY any documentation of LOC at all - because that is the question - if no real LOC - then it never happened - and that can be explained on the Medexpress - it is NOT lying - it would be the truth.
As for MMPI - that has NO bearing on getting a class 1 certificate because there is NO MD giving you a diagnosis of a PD.

I would be happy to help

FAAaeroMed.com

your friendly AME, former F-14 aviator

skydolphin
08-17-2018, 06:23 PM
No, I didnít. One of the questions asked if Iíve ever passed out or fainted so I checked yes. Loss of consciousness wasnít mentioned.

rickair7777
08-19-2018, 02:41 PM
No, I didnít. One of the questions asked if Iíve ever passed out or fainted so I checked yes. Loss of consciousness wasnít mentioned.

Pretty sure "passed out" or "fainted" = LOC.

Excargodog
08-19-2018, 04:22 PM
Pretty sure "passed out" or "fainted" = LOC.

Yup. Seems like...

pass out
phrasal verb of pass
1.
become unconscious.
"he consumed enough alcohol to make him pass out"
synonyms: faint, lose consciousness, black out
"this heat could make anyone pass out"

Excargodog
08-19-2018, 04:33 PM
So as for LOC - did you document this on any formal forms with the FAA such the medical exam when applying for ATC. And, is there REALLY any documentation of LOC at all - because that is the question - if no real LOC - then it never happened - and that can be explained on the Medexpress - it is NOT lying - it would be the truth.


Hey Mugsy - is this an attempt to see how close you can get without REALLY suborning making a false statement? Because it seems to be skating pretty darn close....


And bad things happen to people who do that...


https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1137095.html