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View Full Version : Here Comes Swayne


f16jetmech
02-05-2019, 08:31 AM
I'm a white Christian male married with 5 kids... Does that put me in a minority? 😁


Cyio
02-05-2019, 08:40 AM
I'm a white Christian male married with 5 kids... Does that put me in a minority? 😁

Soon enough it may.

Cyio
02-05-2019, 08:42 AM
No worries at all. It doesn’t matter to me who I fly next to, or who they choose to love, be they heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, bisexual, trisexual, quadrisexual, pansexual, transexual, omnisexual or that thing where the chick ties the belt around your neck and tinkles on a ballon, it has absolutely nothing to do with who we are as people. All that matters is that they are safe, and that they don’t chop the power and try to flare at 80’. Swayne is open and proud of who he is and even though he qualifies as a minority and a protected class, he doesn’t seem to exploit it.

This 100%. I think the media cycle has made it so that we have to look at everyone as an exploited class or something and that we all need to care what people do in their private lives. I dont give a rats ass what someone chooses to believe in or do with their bodies, so long as they are safe, respectful and dont try to restrict my beliefs in favor of their own.


450knotOffice
02-05-2019, 09:31 AM
Why are you so upset over this?

So upset? Lol, no. That's a bit of an exaggeration.

I am a little annoyed at so many of those on here who judge and convict this young man in the court of APC Envoy opinion. There is at least one person in this very thread who has actually flown with Swayne and has said "Great guy to fly with and really good pilot."

Another has said that he talked with Swayne in a group setting with other pilots a while back and thought he was a super nice guy, an overachiever.

So two people here who have actually met Swayne really liked him, thought he was a nice guy, and one said he was an excellent pilot.

He seems to be a hard worker and a smart guy. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on him being at a Legacy a year or two after he upgrades at Envoy. He just does not seem to be the kind of person who sits back and waits for the things to happen, more so the opposite.

I wish him luck.

450knotOffice
02-05-2019, 09:40 AM
Pan Am, Eastern, TWA and Braniff were the 'legacies' 40 years ago. I don't think it 's a stretch to believe that the legacies of today won't exist in 40 years. The pilot profession as a whole will probably look a lot different if it still exists.

You left out that United, American, and Delta were also Legacies 40 years ago, and all were larger than the four you listed by then. They are still alive and well and raking in billions of dollars every year.

Anyway, what does this have this have to do with the conversation about Swayne? It's a non-sequitur in the context of the thread topic.

Varsity
02-05-2019, 09:48 AM
You left out that United, American, and Delta were also Legacies 40 years ago, and all were larger than the four you listed by then. They are still alive and well and raking in billions of dollars every year.

Anyway, what does this have this have to do with the conversation about Swayne? It's a non-sequitur in the context of the thread topic.

You couldn't be further from the truth.

40 years ago was 1979, AA didn't even cross the Atlantic until 1982. Delta bought Pan Am's routes. United didn't fly international on their own until 1983.

Take a seat bro.

450knotOffice
02-05-2019, 11:24 AM
You couldn't be further from the truth.

40 years ago was 1979, AA didn't even cross the Atlantic until 1982. Delta bought Pan Am's routes. United didn't fly international on their own until 1983.

Take a seat bro.

Think again, "bro" (I had to laugh at that one. You schooled me for sure, bro).

First of all, since when has International flying ever defined an airline's size? The answer is never.

Many other metrics define an airline's size - Total Revenue, Revenue passenger miles, Passenger emplacements, Fleet size, etc.

We just finished 2018, so 40 years ago for complete statistics was 1978.

The ATA's own report for 1978 shows:

Revenue passenger miles:
1) UA (39.3B)
2) AA (29B)
3) TW (27B)
4) EA (25.2B)
5) DL (23.3B)
6) PA (21.1B)

Enplanements:
1) UA
2) EA
3) DL
4) AA
5) TW
10) PA

Total Operating Revenue:
1) UA
2) AA
3) TW
4) EA
5) PA
6) DL

Fleet size:
1) UA (340)
2) EA (248)
3) AA (246)
4) DL (206)
5) TW (200)
6) NW (105)
7) BN (103)
8) AL (93)
9) PA (90)

How is it I need to sit down, bro?:rolleyes:

Anyway, this is still about Swayne.

henryjj
02-05-2019, 11:45 AM
This thread makes me laugh. You guys are seriously worked up about a 21 year old First Officer that's accomplishing more than ANY of you keyboard warriors will.

While I think the videos are pretty dry, have you read through the comments on his videos? He's helping out a huge group of pilots that have no exposure to this industry. I'm finally looking at airlines myself, and I wish I'd seen his videos a few years back.

V12Merlin
02-05-2019, 11:49 AM
Soon enough it may.

I’m in that club too, can’t wait for my call up!

Varsity
02-05-2019, 11:57 AM
Think again, "bro" (I had to laugh at that one. You schooled me for sure, bro).

First of all, since when has International flying ever defined an airline's size? The answer is never.

Many other metrics define an airline's size - Total Revenue, Revenue passenger miles, Passenger emplacements, Fleet size, etc.

We just finished 2018, so 40 years ago for complete statistics was 1978.

The ATA's own report for 1978 shows:

Revenue passenger miles:
1) UA (39.3B)
2) AA (29B)
3) TW (27B)
4) EA (25.2B)
5) DL (23.3B)
6) PA (21.1B)

Enplanements:
1) UA
2) EA
3) DL
4) AA
5) TW
10) PA

Total Operating Revenue:
1) UA
2) AA
3) TW
4) EA
5) PA
6) DL

Fleet size:
1) UA (340)
2) EA (248)
3) AA (246)
4) DL (206)
5) TW (200)
6) NW (105)
7) BN (103)
8) AL (93)
9) PA (90)

How is it I need to sit down, bro?:rolleyes:

Anyway, this is still about Swayne.

Is this the most worked up you've ever been over an internet post bro? :D

I think your numbers are 100% completely off, as AA flew 201m revenue passenger miles in 2017 and I doubt all those airlines flew more in 1978. AA/UA/DL were second rate jobs. Nobody aspired to fly a 727 around Texas for AA when flying a 747 at PA or TW was a possibility.

Skywest must be a legacy now, since their fleet is so huge. I'll let them know and report back.

450knotOffice
02-05-2019, 12:08 PM
Is this the most worked up you've ever been over an internet post bro? :D

I think your numbers are 100% completely off, as AA flew 201m revenue passenger miles in 2017 and I doubt all those airlines flew more in 1978. AA/UA/DL were second rate jobs. Nobody aspired to fly a 727 around Texas for AA when flying a 747 at PA or TW was a possibility.

Skywest must be a legacy now, since their fleet is so huge. I'll let them know and report back.

AAL flew 226 Billion RPM’s in 2017. Billion.

Varsity
02-05-2019, 12:17 PM
AAL flew 226 Billion RPM’s in 2017. Billion.

Ah, you're close on the number. 201.

None of your argument changes the fact that all 3 were second rate airlines 40 years ago. Not a flag carrier (neither was DL or UA). Not an international airline, not the largest airline (Eastern) and not the top job that the big 3 are today.

When Captain Swayne retires in 40 years he'll probably have Spirit, Southwest and Frontier as the "big 3" or some other unrecognizable formation like that, bro.

Upntheair27
02-05-2019, 01:25 PM
Haha this Varsity kid... Must sting hard to know that by the time you flow, Swayne will be senior to you at mainline. Be careful with all that hate, it's gonna eat you up.

Varsity
02-05-2019, 01:44 PM
Haha this Varsity kid... Must sting hard to know that by the time you flow, Swayne will be senior to you at mainline. Be careful with all that hate, it's gonna eat you up.

Stings bad bro. That would imply my apps to Fedex and Delta didn't pan out. Maybe he'd be my captain, and show me some cool video editing on our layovers. :D

ERAUAV8TR
02-05-2019, 01:52 PM
So how does he stand out amongst his peers...his resume would only have one extra bullet point
-Pilot Recruitment Youtube Sensation

Dont see how that justifies anything

rickair7777
02-05-2019, 02:21 PM
Skywest must be a legacy now, since their fleet is so huge. I'll let them know and report back.


Oddly enough...

There's no "official" definition of a legacy airline. Generally assumed to be one which existed prior to 1978, and did interstate routes, that last to exclude SWA.

There is however an official definition of a "major" airline per the federal government: $1B+ in revenues.

With $3B+, skywest is technically a "major" airline.

Even stranger, I'm pretty sure skywest, unlike SWA, actually did do interstate flights in the 1970's but I assume they were 135 at the time.


But here at APC, we bin airlines by their business model, ie regionals are mostly FFD with a few traditional commuters thrown in too.

Ijustlikeflying
02-06-2019, 12:39 AM
Everyone on here is literally arguing over the hypothetical of him getting picked up by a major before them...lol...which clearly states that they know he works harder than them if they are already talking about it hahaha

You go Swayne.

For the record. All this BS on here is just that BS. Anytime his name has been brought up in a crew room or at recurrent, everyone has had the same or similar response, “...yeah seems like a humble dude...” or “...yeah I flew with him, very good pilot and nice dude to be on a 4day with...”

...so either I’m talking to a different group of people or most of these people on here don’t work for envoy or are bi-polar.

Cyio
02-06-2019, 03:13 AM
Everyone on here is literally arguing over the hypothetical of him getting picked up by a major before them...lol...which clearly states that they know he works harder than them if they are already talking about it hahaha

You go Swayne.

For the record. All this BS on here is just that BS. Anytime his name has been brought up in a crew room or at recurrent, everyone has had the same or similar response, “...yeah seems like a humble dude...” or “...yeah I flew with him, very good pilot and nice dude to be on a 4day with...”

...so either I’m talking to a different group of people or most of these people on here don’t work for envoy or are bi-polar.

Ehh, don't give anyone too much credit, we are all just talking to talk at this point. In reality people dont really care about this person, how nice or humble he may be, his sexual orientation or anything else along those lines.

The only thing they care about, is the possibility that simply because he hops on YouTube and makes a company sponsored video he somehow would get picked over someone that has been flying the line for years longer or somehow didn't check one of the socially protected check boxes. That would be an injustice to all the people that have been around longer, working hard in their own way.

Me personally, I dont think the people at AA will see as much benefit from him as Envoy does because AA has zero issues hiring, so his talent and followers mean very little in the long run.

Jersdawg
02-06-2019, 04:44 AM
Can’t knock the hustle.

It’s what sets people apart in this business.

SilentLurker
02-06-2019, 05:57 AM
The jealousy is real and disgusting! If this thread is a representation of the many cloak-and-dagger users/pilots on the line. I’m very done here.

Another reason why this carrier needs more diversity than ever in all categories.

This thread should be deleted. It is sad! I wish him the best in all he does as I would my family, at the end of the day we all are.

Jamesthunder
02-06-2019, 06:36 AM
Grow a disgusting mustache Swayne.

V12Merlin
02-06-2019, 06:49 AM
We had one guy get into “Cecil’s” office to ask his advice and he got hired at mainline. I think after that one there was a stampede of Eagle drivers over to Cecil’s office. But they couldn’t get in to see him.

Got to have a gimmick bros.

On a side note. There’s NO WAY Eagle would have allowed videos to be made by a pilot back in the bad old days. That companies behavior couldn’t stand the light of day. So we wouldn’t have had that gimmick available to us.

highfarfast
02-06-2019, 08:11 AM
This thread should be deleted. It is sad!

I couldn't agree more and posted such on, I think, the first page of this thread (or maybe it was the other similar thread). Can't believe threads like this are allowed by the mods.

tomgoodman
02-06-2019, 08:54 AM
I couldn't agree more and posted such on, I think, the first page of this thread (or maybe it was the other similar thread). Can't believe threads like this are allowed by the mods.

Moderator input: If you see a post which clearly violates forum rules, use the “report post” icon (a triangle at the lower left). Don’t expect someone else to do it for you. We already banned someone for making such a post.
Keep in mind that when someone chooses to become a public figure on Youtube, they give up much of their expectation of privacy.

Tyrion
02-06-2019, 09:27 AM
Looks like I'm going to need to pop some more popcorn.

Cyio
02-06-2019, 09:49 AM
I couldn't agree more and posted such on, I think, the first page of this thread (or maybe it was the other similar thread). Can't believe threads like this are allowed by the mods.

Usually on board with much of what you have to say, but why in the world would a thread like this not be allowed? There are some "posts" in it that are inflammatory or libel but there is no rule about discussing someone that posts on YouTube.

There also is no rule that just because someone is "nice guy" or "good pilot" makes them immune to people not liking what they may or may not be doing.

NoValueAviator
02-06-2019, 10:30 AM
I for one appreciate that they don’t crack down on stuff like this. Is it totally professional to do a thread like this? No, but this also isn’t an aa.com email chain. Anyway, the people demand a disgusting mustache.

highfarfast
02-06-2019, 11:19 AM
Usually on board with much of what you have to say, but why in the world would a thread like this not be allowed? There are some "posts" in it that are inflammatory or libel but there is no rule about discussing someone that posts on YouTube.

There also is no rule that just because someone is "nice guy" or "good pilot" makes them immune to people not liking what they may or may not be doing.

You asked so I'll answer, because it's allowing shaming and bullying tactics by his peers. Yes, he's one of us.

Now, that's all I'll say on this matter, in this thread or anywhere else, because my comments seem to have me teetering on being banned.

Jamesthunder
02-06-2019, 11:29 AM
Anyway, the people demand a disgusting mustache.


We need it.

DreadWing
02-06-2019, 11:38 AM
You asked so I'll answer, because it's allowing shaming and bullying tactics by his peers.

"Allowing?" You sound as if there somehow would be no "shaming" and "bullying" were it NOT "allowed" that a discussion take place.

That's a rather extraordinary claim.

An open avenue for discussion/criticism of a PUBLIC figure must NECESSARILY enable "shaming" and "bullying," along with legitimate scrutiny. You can regard it as an unfortunate "side effect" if you wish, but don't allow yourself to operate under the illusion that all the resentment, unfair criticism, and nasty thoughts will suddenly evaporate from the minds of "haters" once you forcefully muzzle all discussion of someone's publicly-distributed product.

UnprotectdPilot
06-16-2019, 11:51 AM
ATTN: ENY Pilots

Ya boy Swayne keeps putting out YouTube recruiting propaganda (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNiiB7hRTLM) for the company. Can somebody that flies with this guy have a heart to heart with the kid and tell him he's effing over all of his fellow pilots in the name of InstaFame, FB likes, YT followers, and probably some extra beer money?

Air Stang 7
06-16-2019, 12:09 PM
Sometimes you just don't have to say anything...
4513

HalyardJammer
06-16-2019, 12:26 PM
Sometimes you just don't have to say anything...
4513

Why are they triangles and not stars?

johnboat
06-16-2019, 12:41 PM
At this point his videos do nothing but hurt the livelihoods of his fellow coworkers and crew members. He may be doing his best to educate those just entering the industry or entertain people that have an interest in aviation but this is one of those cases where the road to hell is paved with good intentions. He is no longer making general aviation videos about flying around in a Cesna, he is making videos that are having a negative impact on the jobs of over 2500 people.

henryjj
06-16-2019, 02:14 PM
At this point his videos do nothing but hurt the livelihoods of his fellow coworkers and crew members. He may be doing his best to educate those just entering the industry or entertain people that have an interest in aviation but this is one of those cases where the road to hell is paved with good intentions. He is no longer making general aviation videos about flying around in a Cesna, he is making videos that are having a negative impact on the jobs of over 2500 people.

I call BS. Did you notice his recent video was posted hours before the union notification even came? That video he put up wasn’t a “come to Envoy” post.. it was just about holding a line and what that means. The timing was terrible but how would he have known that hours later the pilot ground would find out about all this...?

pitchattitude
06-16-2019, 02:14 PM
Considering these videos are made not just with permission from but in partnership with Envoy and the fact that he is getting personal gain from these videos, (the amount of which has been debated, but personal gain none the less) he is chugging from the Envoy Koolaid trough and not going to stop making videos.

henryjj
06-16-2019, 02:20 PM
Considering these videos are made not just with permission from but in partnership with Envoy and the fact that he is getting personal gain from these videos, (the amount of which has been debated, but personal gain none the less) he is chugging from the Envoy Koolaid trough and not going to stop making videos.

That doesn’t answer my question. Whether or not it’s a partnership, he posted this video BEFORE the union news came out. So how can you possibly use this as an example of him creating “propaganda?”

tomgoodman
06-16-2019, 02:26 PM
ATTN: ENY Pilots

Ya boy Swayne keeps putting out YouTube recruiting propaganda (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNiiB7hRTLM) for the company. Can somebody that flies with this guy have a heart to heart with the kid and tell him he's effing over all of his fellow pilots in the name of InstaFame, FB likes, YT followers, and probably some extra beer money?

If you think this video is harmful propaganda, why did you help spread it by posting a link? :confused:

johnboat
06-16-2019, 02:37 PM
That doesn’t answer my question. Whether or not it’s a partnership, he posted this video BEFORE the union news came out. So how can you possibly use this as an example of him creating “propaganda?”

Is there a good time to release a video when the pilot group is in negotiations?

henryjj
06-16-2019, 02:40 PM
Is there a good time to release a video when the pilot group is in negotiations?

I watched the video again just to fact check myself because I understand the point you’re making. But I didn’t see a single thing about “why you should come to Envoy” at all. If anything, he said twice “regardless of which airline you want to work for.”

Am I the only one seeing this??

rld1k
06-16-2019, 02:43 PM
I watched the video again just to fact check myself because I understand the point you’re making. But I didn’t see a single thing about “why you should come to Envoy” at all. If anything, he said twice “regardless of which airline you want to work for.”

Am I the only one seeing this??

He should delete it.

pitchattitude
06-16-2019, 02:45 PM
I watched the video again just to fact check myself because I understand the point you’re making. But I didn’t see a single thing about “why you should come to Envoy” at all. If anything, he said twice “regardless of which airline you want to work for.”

Am I the only one seeing this??
Regardless of which airline you might be looking at, if you are a wannabe pilot and start looking for videos, this is still advertising FOR Envoy.

SilentLurker
06-16-2019, 02:51 PM
If you think this video is harmful propaganda, why did you help spread it by posting a link? :confused:


Can we agree it is those watching who are not on property yet that his video & ALL his videos will attract most??????

SWYN has huge subscription numbers and YouTube algorithms will help spread ”The incredible life of this Envoy Pilot” 10X faster than any APC post. It's a just a matter of when you will view SWAYNVOY’s video when you log on to YouTube, not if. Same outcome. Inspiration towards Envoy!

Ooh boy! Can't wait to hear the awesome tunes & see the pretty glamshots. Of planes. Glamshots of planes.

johnboat
06-16-2019, 02:58 PM
He should delete it.

this......

henryjj
06-16-2019, 02:59 PM
this......

What good would it serve? He hasn’t said anything positive OR negative about the company in any video he’s made. It’s all been facts, and boring ones at that. I can’t even watch all 6 minutes because it’s dry.

Cyio
06-16-2019, 03:04 PM
What good would it serve? He hasn’t said anything positive OR negative about the company in any video he’s made. It’s all been facts, and boring ones at that. I can’t even watch all 6 minutes because it’s dry.

How about every video has him in AA uniform and Envoy planes in the background. Regardless of him telling people to come to Envoy or not, it’s still marketing for them.

Think of it as merchandise marketing that companies do in movies and tv shows. They may not say directly to drink a coke, but when everyone is drinking it in the movie it makes an impression.

Do you honestly believe Envoy is letting him make these movies out of the goodness of their hearts? No of course not, they m own that the more their brand is shown the more likely people are to go there.

henryjj
06-16-2019, 03:11 PM
How about every video has him in AA uniform and Envoy planes in the background. Regardless of him telling people to come to Envoy or not, it’s still marketing for them.

Think of it as merchandise marketing that companies do in movies and tv shows. They may not say directly to drink a coke, but when everyone is drinking it in the movie it makes an impression.

Do you honestly believe Envoy is letting him make these movies out of the goodness of their hearts? No of course not, they m own that the more their brand is shown the more likely people are to go there.

Sure, but should some 3rd party YouTube channel be the avenue for personal opinion on contract negotiations? Isn’t that what the union is for? I just can’t imagine he would ever get into the game of using his channel to promote personal viewpoints - that’s dangerous territory and I bet he knows it.

He’s stuck to the facts so far and I watch all of his videos to see if there’s any “Envoy spin” to them and there just hasn’t been. There was “spin” with his job in Hawaii but he threw that out the window at Envoy. Does that mean you’re going to go around telling all pilots to delete their pictures, bios online, LinkedIn, etc to not “promote” the company through social media? It’s sort of like refusing to eat chick-fil-a and then buying food from another store that donates to other “negative” causes. It’s easy to jump on one person, but from where I sit I just can’t see how this could possibly be “his” fault.

johnboat
06-16-2019, 03:14 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/33mdbp.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/33mdbp)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

ERAUAV8TR
06-16-2019, 03:17 PM
He should delete it.

Just think what he gets paid. ;)

CautionPropWash
06-16-2019, 03:59 PM
Why are they triangles and not stars?

Copyright infringement. America first,

Vital Signs
06-16-2019, 04:01 PM
Sometimes you just don't have to say anything...
4513




.....now it’s in your face. I thought we were all not supposed to care?

Cyio
06-16-2019, 04:17 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/33mdbp.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/33mdbp)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

On point. Lol

rld1k
06-16-2019, 07:31 PM
Sure, but should some 3rd party YouTube channel be the avenue for personal opinion on contract negotiations? Isn’t that what the union is for? I just can’t imagine he would ever get into the game of using his channel to promote personal viewpoints - that’s dangerous territory and I bet he knows it.

He’s stuck to the facts so far and I watch all of his videos to see if there’s any “Envoy spin” to them and there just hasn’t been. There was “spin” with his job in Hawaii but he threw that out the window at Envoy. Does that mean you’re going to go around telling all pilots to delete their pictures, bios online, LinkedIn, etc to not “promote” the company through social media? It’s sort of like refusing to eat chick-fil-a and then buying food from another store that donates to other “negative” causes. It’s easy to jump on one person, but from where I sit I just can’t see how this could possibly be “his” fault.

and where is it you sit, in the CPO, HQ or recruiting?

henryjj
06-16-2019, 10:38 PM
and where is it you sit, in the CPO, HQ or recruiting?

At least I don't spend all of my valuable time letting a 22 year old get me all worked up ;)

There's not a chance in hell that Swayne's videos have a clear, meaningful impact on Envoy's ability to staff classes. If he did find a way to do that, he'd be rolling in it $$$... We all know how much these airlines spend on recruiting!

johnboat
06-16-2019, 11:08 PM
At least I don't spend all of my valuable time letting a 22 year old get me all worked up ;)

I do. Sometimes I’ll even let them wear my hat.

Thedude86
06-17-2019, 07:40 AM
At least I don't spend all of my valuable time letting a 22 year old get me all worked up ;)

There's not a chance in hell that Swayne's videos have a clear, meaningful impact on Envoy's ability to staff classes. If he did find a way to do that, he'd be rolling in it $$$... We all know how much these airlines spend on recruiting!

I don’t think you understand marketing or human psychology. He doesn’t have to say anything positive.

I have a friend back home who works at the airport and he showed me a picture from when Swayne was doing his walk around while my buddy was fueling the airplane. My buddy was all excited because Swayne is a celebrity to future and young aviators. Again, he doesn’t have to say anything positive. When young pilots start “regional shopping” a lot of them look up to Swayne and think Envoy must be pretty good if Swayne went there. Almost every pilot I know who is still building their time knows who Swayne Martin is. He’s an influence for Envoy whether he says positive things or not.

You’re also correct that it’s the unions job to get pay and QOL gains. But you can bet your arse if classes are still full (partly because of the Swayne influence) that even if you had Jimmy Hoffa negotiating for you... you guys are gonna get jack squat.

pitchattitude
06-17-2019, 08:20 AM
I don’t think you understand marketing or human psychology. He doesn’t have to say anything positive.

I have a friend back home who works at the airport and showed me a picture from when Swayne was doing his walk around while my buddy was fueling the airplane. My buddy was all excited because Swayne is a celebrity to future and young aviators. Again, he doesn’t have to say anything positive. When young pilots start “regional shopping” a lot them look up to Swayne and think Envoy must be pretty good if Swayne went there. Almost every pilot I know who is still building their time knows who Swayne Martin is. He’s an influence for Envoy whether he says positive things or not.

You’re also correct that it’s the unions job to get pay and QOL gains. But you can bet your arse if classes are still full (partly because of the Swayne influence) that even if you had Jimmy Hoffa negotiating for you... you guys are gonna get jack squat.
These videos cost Envoy little or nothing and they have a whole propaganda department (all those emails and pointless stuff on the home page) that probably just previews his stuff. He had 55K views on this video alone in a few days. If Envoy gets just five people, that is only .01% of his viewers. Granted many aren’t looking to fly for a regional, but even if only 1% are planning to fly for a regional and he influences 1% of those, that is the five people. Again, he doesn’t have to say anything positive about Envoy, but people will remember the company. And those are the millennial cadets Envoy is looking to hook.

Cyio
06-17-2019, 08:42 AM
Isnt this him at the UND?

UncreativeUser
06-17-2019, 09:01 AM
Isnt this him at the UND?



Sure is.

The end of his videos (or beginning, I don’t care to watch them at all) do say Envoy. In marketing 101, subliminal programming like that is designed to at least get you THINKING about a company. That’s the first step, and it’s done automatically every time he posts a new video, intentional or not. It’s rather an excellent idea for recruitment as it keeps costs down, but as we all know right now it is not an ideal time to be posting these kinds of videos but I’d imagine he doesn’t really have a choice if he signed a partnership agreement.


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MochaSwirl
06-17-2019, 09:06 AM
Isnt this him at the UND?

LeAVe SwAYnE AloNE He DoEsnT HeLP ThE ComPanY

Thedude86
06-17-2019, 09:22 AM
Sure is.

The end of his videos (or beginning, I don’t care to watch them at all) do say Envoy. In marketing 101, subliminal programming like that is designed to at least get you THINKING about a company. That’s the first step, and it’s done automatically every time he posts a new video, intentional or not. It’s rather an excellent idea for recruitment as it keeps costs down, but as we all know right now it is not an ideal time to be posting these kinds of videos but I’d imagine he doesn’t really have a choice if he signed a partnership agreement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn’t be surprised if Envoy even contacted him directly to apply. Like a shoe company seeking an endorserment from a popular athlete.

3EngineTaxi
06-17-2019, 10:47 AM
I don’t understand what so cool about pictures they always take that show people falling over.

buddies8
06-17-2019, 11:40 AM
That picture is full of buffoons

DiamondDriver
06-17-2019, 12:01 PM
I was operating a flight a few weeks back and a grandfather was on the flight. He came up front and was so excited to tell us about how his grandson, a college senior, was being recruited by Envoy.

I understand it though, younger college students probably feel extremely special getting the mail and calls from regional recruiting departments. It’s hard to blame the kids, or explain to them in any meaningful way that they’re not special.

Tough spot to be in as a pilot with Envoy. Hopefully something falls in yall’s favor sooner than later.

molitvic13
06-18-2019, 10:25 AM
Meh...he's less douchey than Chavez.

Mehhh kinda miss Chavez. I guess he disappeared off the face of the planet. Now this guy is a complete douche. I can’t stand listening to him narrate.

chrisreedrules
06-18-2019, 11:41 AM
I was operating a flight a few weeks back and a grandfather was on the flight. He came up front and was so excited to tell us about how his grandson, a college senior, was being recruited by Envoy.

I understand it though, younger college students probably feel extremely special getting the mail and calls from regional recruiting departments. It’s hard to blame the kids, or explain to them in any meaningful way that they’re not special.

Tough spot to be in as a pilot with Envoy. Hopefully something falls in yall’s favor sooner than later.

Maybe you have very little experience outside of aviation or perhaps you’re out of touch with the world these days. The kid should feel special for that. Most careers aren’t like that. It’s a good feeling to be, “wanted” for the career you’re still pumped and excited to be in. Most decent paying jobs post-college are extremely competitive. Extremely competitive. And it’s why many with 4 year degrees don’t do much and don’t have much to show for their degrees. Certainly not at a job that’s offering big bonuses and a livable wage.

pitchattitude
06-18-2019, 12:16 PM
Maybe you have very little experience outside of aviation or perhaps you’re out of touch with the world these days. The kid should feel special for that. Most careers aren’t like that. It’s a good feeling to be, “wanted” for the career you’re still pumped and excited to be in. Most decent paying jobs post-college are extremely competitive. Extremely competitive. And it’s why many with 4 year degrees don’t do much and don’t have much to show for their degrees. Certainly not at a job that’s offering big bonuses and a livable wage.
Wait. You just said something about a livable wage. Yes, there is a bonus. But if you are talking about someone graduating with a four year, non arts degree, there are much better options. And, if you have a four year aviation degree, you are going to have some SERIOUS debt to pay off. I wouldn’t call this a livable wage for someone with an education and ratings.

tengssuuciurta
06-18-2019, 09:19 PM
Sometimes you just don't have to say anything...
4513

disgusting

Seven3Seven
06-18-2019, 09:35 PM
Hasn't ONE single Envoy pilot taken the time to figure out how he's being compensated by management for these videos? They've got to at least be approving the message he puts out. Either way it should **** off more than a few average line pilot joes.

Where does his allegience lie?
The pilot group?
The airline?
His website?

chrisreedrules
06-18-2019, 10:01 PM
Wait. You just said something about a livable wage. Yes, there is a bonus. But if you are talking about someone graduating with a four year, non arts degree, there are much better options. And, if you have a four year aviation degree, you are going to have some SERIOUS debt to pay off. I wouldn’t call this a livable wage for someone with an education and ratings.

It most certainly is. Many people I know getting out of college with degrees in other fields generally find jobs in the $35-$45K range. And they have debt as well.

Ruddervator63
06-18-2019, 10:30 PM
It most certainly is. Many people I know getting out of college with degrees in other fields generally find jobs in the $35-$45K range. And they have debt as well.
It's partially their fault for getting a degree in a saturated field that either doesn't have the demand or the skill set that pays more. Before I got into Aviation I was making $70-86k depending on if I worked overtime. That's without a college degree working alongside people who have to use their fingers to count to 4.
They can't expect to be a social worker and make bank. If they're going to take on debt to get through school they seriously need to examine their prospects first. Just saying.

CADR
06-19-2019, 05:53 AM
Hasn't ONE single Envoy pilot taken the time to figure out how he's being compensated by management for these videos? They've got to at least be approving the message he puts out. Either way it should **** off more than a few average line pilot joes.

Where does his allegience lie?
The pilot group?
The airline?
His website?

It is quite simple, his allegiance are with himself. He puts on a nice face for social media and in person, but when the mask comes off it is clear he is only out for himself and advancing his career and social status.

henryjj
06-19-2019, 06:32 AM
It is quite simple, his allegiance are with himself. He puts on a nice face for social media and in person, but when the mask comes off it is clear he is only out for himself and advancing his career and social status.

If he’s been nice to your or others in person, under what assumption are you saying he’s different with the “mask off?” And aren’t we all trying to advance our own careers?

I’ve met this guy before and he gets a lot more crap than he deserves. I find it funny that people have been silent for the past 6 months about him, until it’s in their interest to complain online when a contract negotiation fails. If you felt this strongly before, maybe you should’ve said something before. If you’re going to complain at least be consistent. ;)

MEGAFUPM
06-19-2019, 07:17 AM
If he’s been nice to your or others in person, under what assumption are you saying he’s different with the “mask off?” And aren’t we all trying to advance our own careers?

I’ve met this guy before and he gets a lot more crap than he deserves. I find it funny that people have been silent for the past 6 months about him, until it’s in their interest to complain online when a contract negotiation fails. If you felt this strongly before, maybe you should’ve said something before. If you’re going to complain at least be consistent. ;)

Well this thread was started 10 months ago lol.. anyway people are mad about it because he's a pilot in the same position as us but uploads a video the same day the company backs out of an agreement about the greatness of being a lineholder, with envoy brand and logos all up in the background, which make it seem like a great place to be, whether he says it or not. And yes it is good market advertising to teens/student pilots looking for a career in aviation. Honestly won't be surprised once he gets called for the mainlines shortly after upgrading/building some PIC.

SonicFlyer
06-19-2019, 07:34 AM
If he isn't putting out anything that is false information, then who cares? :rolleyes:

Excargodog
06-19-2019, 07:37 AM
If he isn't putting out anything that is false information, then who cares? :rolleyes:

Agree. And if he is the answer is a coherent rebuttal, not just pi$$ing and moaning.

MochaSwirl
06-19-2019, 08:04 AM
If he isn't putting out anything that is false information, then who cares? :rolleyes:


I don’t think he’s putting out false information. I think he puts out factual information.

But at the end of the day it’s this, he’s endorsed and backed by Envoy to put these out.

The videos he produced has Envoy’s logo attached to them therefore that’s free publicity. What does publicity do? Attract new followers or shall I say sheep?

And Envoy doesn’t have to pay a dime to Swayne. But I can imagine Swayne is on their “good boy list”

He’s helping the help, when the help isn’t helping us, care about us, and not doing anything to remotely show that they actually care about this pilotn group.

So who’s side is Swayne on? The company? Or the Pilot?

The answer is crystal clear.

My .02 and my reasoning for not liking the kid.

Crewroomjoe
06-19-2019, 08:18 AM
I don’t think he’s putting out false information. I think he puts out factual information.

But at the end of the day it’s this, he’s endorsed and backed by Envoy to put these out.

The videos he produced has Envoy’s logo attached to them therefore that’s free publicity. What does publicity do? Attract new followers or shall I say sheep?

And Envoy doesn’t have to pay a dime to Swayne. But I can imagine Swayne is on their “good boy list”

He’s helping the help, when the help isn’t helping us, care about us, and not doing anything to remotely show that they actually care about this pilotn group.

So who’s side is Swayne on? The company? Or the Pilot?

The answer is crystal clear.

My .02 and my reasoning for not liking the kid.
This...
Amazing how people still dont get it.

wiz5422
06-19-2019, 09:53 AM
You are either helping the pilot group or hurting the pilot group....there is no middle ground.

Now you all decide how his videos either help or hurt our stance as a pilot group as a whole and you have your answer.

IT'S THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!.

450knotOffice
06-19-2019, 10:29 AM
Hyperbole much? LOL!

He's not saying "come work for Envoy, it's awesome here", he's simply creating videos describing HIS experiences and explaining some basic concepts of the operation as how it relates to pilots. His videos are obviously meant for up and comers who might be in flight training at the moment but have no idea what the life entails.

Leave the kid alone.

And some of you guys are coming off as closed minded bigots, btw. Showing your true colors are you?:rolleyes:

rld1k
06-19-2019, 10:34 AM
hyperbole much? Lol!

He's not saying "come work for envoy, it's awesome here", he's simply creating videos describing his experiences and explaining some basic concepts of the operation as how it relates to pilots. His videos are obviously meant for up and comers who might be in flight training at the moment but have no idea what the life entails.

Leave the kid alone.

And some of you guys are coming off as closed minded bigots, btw. Showing your true colors are you?:rolleyes:

leave britney alone!

lay off the virtue signaling, we're all progressive here. We get it, you want everyone to know you're a good guy.

uavking
06-19-2019, 10:58 AM
He's not saying "come work for Envoy, it's awesome here", he's simply creating videos describing HIS experiences and explaining some basic concepts of the operation as how it relates to pilots. His videos are obviously meant for up and comers who might be in flight training at the moment but have no idea what the life entails.


Social media influencers are one of the biggest marketing tools in play these days. If you don’t believe me, look at the social media operation of any major corporation these days. These pitches rely on subtle techniques to highlight product or concepts rather than a hard sell. This generation somehow thinks a social media pitch is more authentic than Madison Ave, even if they’re fundamentally selling the same product. (The Army is doing this with YouTube videos that show basic training, firing ranges, etc., using recruiters as pitchmen in civvies)

Regardless of duder’s intent (money on clicks, fame, or simply helping the next generation), his videos are free advertising for Envoy full stop. I don’t care if he’s a nice guy, or whatever, because what he is doing is not in the interest of the pilot group in this negotiating environment. It would probably behoove him to show solidarity and lay off the videos and other recruiting appearances until we get a deal.

wiz5422
06-19-2019, 11:07 AM
. I don’t care if he’s a nice guy, or whatever, because what he is doing is not in the interest of the pilot group in this negotiating environment. It would probably behoove him to show solidarity and lay off the videos and other recruiting appearances until we get a deal.

100% agree. Look at any major airline and what their pilot group does for solidarity during furlough and or negotiation times.There are just some things you don't do to harm the pilots as a group as a whole. It is protecting your profession over your self.

pitchattitude
06-19-2019, 11:12 AM
Regardless of duder’s intent (money on clicks, fame, or simply helping the next generation), his videos are free advertising for Envoy full stop. I don’t care if he’s a nice guy, or whatever, because what he is doing is not in the interest of the pilot group in this negotiating environment. It would probably behoove him to show solidarity and lay off the videos and other recruiting appearances until we get a deal.
Absolutely agree. Nothing against him personally. And he can keep making the videos. Just keep them in the can until we have an improved contract. Then he can post as much as he wants.

henryjj
06-19-2019, 11:30 AM
Absolutely agree. Nothing against him personally. And he can keep making the videos. Just keep them in the can until we have an improved contract. Then he can post as much as he wants.

I bet he will. Let’s watch and see. Also... he released the recent video just a few hours before the union news. So he didn’t even have the opportunity to delay posting as some have suggested.

Inclined plane
06-19-2019, 11:33 AM
Hyperbole much? LOL!



He's not saying "come work for Envoy, it's awesome here", he's simply creating videos describing HIS experiences and explaining some basic concepts of the operation as how it relates to pilots. His videos are obviously meant for up and comers who might be in flight training at the moment but have no idea what the life entails.



Leave the kid alone.



And some of you guys are coming off as closed minded bigots, btw. Showing your true colors are you?:rolleyes:



Well why make videos at all? If it was truly just about informing, why not just put out an informational pamphlet on his content?

Answer: It’s not just about information. It’s mainly about his vanity, and as a byproduct, conveniently disguised as informational when most people including the company, know that it is in fact a recruiting tool to sell the company to potential new hires.

So I do roll my eyes when people try to claim that he’s simply “creating videos to share his experience and explain” airline ops.

I’m not knocking the guy, just my opinion and calling it as I see it. It’s his prerogative and I get that.

However, imho, it does make it seem like new hires are mentally challenged special needs kids needing to see these videos just to hack it as a new hire. I mean it’s really not THAT hard to actually require videos. I wouldn’t be surprised to see if he made videos on basic life skills, like learning how to go grocery shopping, learning how to do laundry, learning how to pay your bills, learning how to brush your teeth, learning how to navigate public transportation and how to ride the bus on your own. I heard that it’s in the works to sell stuffed plush toy, emotional support airplanes to help new hires make it through.

I’m being facetious, however I feel as informational as they may be, are entirely unnecessary and probably makes management think twice about paying us a professional wage because they see us as incapable of figuring things out for ourselves and need our proverbial hands held in the form of these videos.


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MEGAFUPM
06-19-2019, 11:34 AM
I bet he will. Let’s watch and see. Also... he released the recent video just a few hours before the union news. So he didn’t even have the opportunity to delay posting as some have suggested.

Negotiations have been going on since the beginning of April.

henryjj
06-19-2019, 12:24 PM
Negotiations have been going on since the beginning of April.

Aren’t there always negotiations?

Cyio
06-19-2019, 01:09 PM
Hyperbole much? LOL!

He's not saying "come work for Envoy, it's awesome here", he's simply creating videos describing HIS experiences and explaining some basic concepts of the operation as how it relates to pilots. His videos are obviously meant for up and comers who might be in flight training at the moment but have no idea what the life entails.

Leave the kid alone.

And some of you guys are coming off as closed minded bigots, btw. Showing your true colors are you?:rolleyes:

Closed minded bigots? Not sure how this came up but I feel you are the one judging here not the other way around.

The point is the videos advertise Envoy and only Envoy during some pretty heated negotiations. One doesn’t have to speak support for a product to still endorse it.

I fail to see how this simple point is not understood by some. Lastly, you can disagree with someone and their actions without hating them or who they are.

buddies8
06-19-2019, 01:57 PM
So much waisted energy to discuss the pluses and minuses of this guy.
Since he has not been shut down by envoy then envoy supports what he is doing. In other words envoy mgt gains from his stuff. My opinion whether he is or knows it or not, he is a mgt stooge. Truly surprised he even flies the line

CheckWheelsDown
06-19-2019, 04:25 PM
So much waisted energy to discuss the pluses and minuses of this guy.
Since he has not been shut down by envoy then envoy supports what he is doing. In other words envoy mgt gains from his stuff. My opinion whether he is or knows it or not, he is a mgt stooge. Truly surprised he even flies the line

So, according to him, it's only 7 months OFE reserve. I thought it was much worse... 12-14 months.

SonicFlyer
06-19-2019, 04:26 PM
Hyperbole much? LOL!

He's not saying "come work for Envoy, it's awesome here", he's simply creating videos describing HIS experiences and explaining some basic concepts of the operation as how it relates to pilots. His videos are obviously meant for up and comers who might be in flight training at the moment but have no idea what the life entails.

Leave the kid alone.

And some of you guys are coming off as closed minded bigots, btw. Showing your true colors are you?:rolleyes:
Exactly.

The knuckle-dragging union thug groupthink mentality is pathetic.


Obviously Envoy has problems that need to be rectified. But this youtuber has nothing to do with it.

SonicFlyer
06-19-2019, 04:28 PM
I don’t think he’s putting out false information. I think he puts out factual information.

But at the end of the day it’s this, he’s endorsed and backed by Envoy to put these out.

The videos he produced has Envoy’s logo attached to them therefore that’s free publicity. What does publicity do? Attract new followers or shall I say sheep?

And Envoy doesn’t have to pay a dime to Swayne. But I can imagine Swayne is on their “good boy list”

He’s helping the help, when the help isn’t helping us, care about us, and not doing anything to remotely show that they actually care about this pilotn group.

So who’s side is Swayne on? The company? Or the Pilot?

The answer is crystal clear.

My .02 and my reasoning for not liking the kid.
Regardless of duder’s intent (money on clicks, fame, or simply helping the next generation), his videos are free advertising for Envoy full stop. I don’t care if he’s a nice guy, or whatever, because what he is doing is not in the interest of the pilot group in this negotiating environment. It would probably behoove him to show solidarity and lay off the videos and other recruiting appearances until we get a deal.




You are either helping the pilot group or hurting the pilot group....there is no middle ground.

Now you all decide how his videos either help or hurt our stance as a pilot group as a whole and you have your answer.

IT'S THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!.

Thank you for proving my point in my previous post.

rld1k
06-19-2019, 04:37 PM
Exactly.

The knuckle-dragging union thug groupthink mentality is pathetic.


Obviously Envoy has problems that need to be rectified. But this youtuber has nothing to do with it.

It's not groupthink it's called unity and loyalty. Some people have none.

450knotOffice
06-19-2019, 05:04 PM
Closed minded bigots? Not sure how this came up but I feel you are the one judging here not the other way around.


Well, these are three posts that stood out to me after the photo of him and the other guy holding the rainbow flag was posted:

Sometimes you just don't have to say anything...
4513


.....now it’s in your face. I thought we were all not supposed to care?


disgusting

So, yes. Those three posts come off as bigoted.

All the rest is just good discussion, even if I disagree to an extent.

dera
06-19-2019, 05:09 PM
So, according to him, it's only 7 months OFE reserve. I thought it was much worse... 12-14 months.

11/2018 hires held lines for June. We will know where it moves for July tomorrow.

WhipWhitaker
06-19-2019, 05:34 PM
Well, these are three posts that stood out to me after the photo of him and the other guy holding the rainbow flag was posted:


So, yes. Those three posts come off as bigoted.

All the rest is just good discussion, even if I disagree to an extent.

And none of them are wrong.

poopplop
06-19-2019, 05:58 PM
It's not groupthink it's called unity and loyalty. Some people have none.Nothing demonstrates unity and loyalty like anonymously attacking your own members in a public forum. You guys are seriously embarrassing yourselves with this thread...

wiz5422
06-19-2019, 06:04 PM
Nothing demonstrates unity and loyalty like anonymously attacking your own members in a public forum. You guys are seriously embarrassing yourselves with this thread...


We aren't loyal to one individual...We are loyal to the pilot group as a whole and as a profession. What Swayne is doing can and has been pointed out the opposite....He is being loyal to himself and the company while hurting the pilot group and profession as a whole.

poopplop
06-19-2019, 06:24 PM
We aren't loyal to one individual...We are loyal to the pilot group as a whole and as a profession. What Swayne is doing can and has been pointed out the opposite....He is being loyal to himself and the company while hurting the pilot group and profession as a whole.That's your opinion. There are better ways to handle a disagreement in principle, especially with someone who may not be trying to harm you. Being unionized should've made handling this internally, and more professionally, particularly easy...

450knotOffice
06-19-2019, 07:06 PM
while hurting the pilot group and profession as a whole.

Specifically, I want to know HOW he’s hurting the pilot group and the profession. What specifically is he doing that’s harming your group (wait, aren’t you at AA now that you’ve flowed over in May?) and the profession as a whole, because those are mighty huge accusations to level at an enthusiastic young guy who’s simply making videos trying to explain the life of a pilot at the Regional level. He’s maybe 23 years old, loves what he does (something that chaps his critics), and is making nicely produced videos about his job. I don’t see him promoting the company at all.
So let’s hear it.

MochaSwirl
06-19-2019, 09:01 PM
Specifically, I want to know HOW he’s hurting the pilot group and the profession. What specifically is he doing that’s harming your group (wait, aren’t you at AA now that you’ve flowed over in May?) and the profession as a whole, because those are mighty huge accusations to level at an enthusiastic young guy who’s simply making videos trying to explain the life of a pilot at the Regional level. He’s maybe 23 years old, loves what he does (something that chaps his critics), and is making nicely produced videos about his job. I don’t see him promoting the company at all.
So let’s hear it.

I’m pretty sure I explained it crystal clear with my post.

If you choose not to acknowledge the valid points I’ve made on how he is, that’s on you.

And let’s make this clear, I don’t hate this guy. Idc about his orientation.

Many including myself feel a way about this person because his loyalty is sided with the company at a time where it shows they’re clearly against us and his loyalty is not the pilot group and it shows.

But if that’s his perogative then so be it, but that’s a heck of a way to not make friends around here in this hostile environment.

Firefighterpilo
06-19-2019, 09:08 PM
Specifically, I want to know HOW he’s hurting the pilot group and the profession. What specifically is he doing that’s harming your group (wait, aren’t you at AA now that you’ve flowed over in May?) and the profession as a whole, because those are mighty huge accusations to level at an enthusiastic young guy who’s simply making videos trying to explain the life of a pilot at the Regional level. He’s maybe 23 years old, loves what he does (something that chaps his critics), and is making nicely produced videos about his job. I don’t see him promoting the company at all.
So let’s hear it.

I have no dog in this fight but I think the ire lands on the fact he has become the voice piece of the airline pilot profession, based off the amount of his followers he has. Unlike Sully or Al Haynes who were proven legends in their own right. He has accomplished nothing in this field he is still a rookie. Hell in this day and age getting a job for a regional requires little less then a pulse and 1500 hours. I am glad he likes making videos and they seem well produced. But I don’t like prospective pilots watching his videos to better understand the career. He paints a very unrealistic picture of being an airline pilot. He is a video version of those ATP glossy ads. He shows only the fun and exciting aspects ie uniform, jet pics, travel. He does a poor job of truly showing what the career of an airline pilot is like. He hasn’t been through the furloughs, pay cuts and 5-10 year reserve time that many of us have been through.

I understand this is all brand new and exciting for him, but in a few years the rose colored glasses come off but those videos never will. Pilots are mainly type A personalities and we are use to seeing the press and public go to guys like Sully, Haynes or hell Yeager. These guys command respect are well spoke and most importantly experienced, two of the three he severely lacks. I am sure he is a great guy and I I wish him nothing but the best, but it irks me that he is becoming a defacto mouth piece for professional aviators. I understand that he is not claiming to be but with his views and followers make no mistake he is.

I am curious if things halted and he was on deep reserve for a few years how the tone of his videos would change. Luckily for him he choose the best time in 50 years to become a pilot and it is going well for him.

450knotOffice
06-19-2019, 09:45 PM
Well articulated. There is no doubt that his over the top enthusiasm will be tempered over time. It is inevitable.

Mouthpiece for the airline pilot profession? Not sure I believe that. He’s just another very enthusiastic young kid entering this biz, regardless of the number of followers he has.

henryjj
06-19-2019, 09:52 PM
...He paints a very unrealistic picture of being an airline pilot. He is a video version of those ATP glossy ads. He shows only the fun and exciting aspects ie uniform, jet pics, travel. He does a poor job of truly showing what the career of an airline pilot is like. He hasn’t been through the furloughs, pay cuts and 5-10 year reserve time that many of us have been through...


You’re right. He hasn’t been through the “rough times” you’re mentioning. But I also disagree with your statement on his “unrealistic” picture of the job. Have you actually watched any of his videos? I think he does a damn good job explaining topics that no one has talked about online: Ground School, Sims, Reserve, OT, IOE, etc. The latest videos have been nothing but facts and a breakdown of his day to day job. I for one, recently out of flight school, find it INCREDIBLY helpful for understanding my soon-to-be job.

They aren’t exciting videos. They’re actually pretty boring, and not in the least bit “glossy.” Here’s a thought... Isn’t there enough out there readily available online to dissuade people from this career? Harsh forums, union negotiations, negative press, strikes, low wages, etc. Airline pilots do a damn good job of complaining online. Hell, it almost turned me away from becoming a pilot. I don’t think there’s any doubt that someone seriously looking at this career path will discover those negative factors.

And yet... I find it refreshing that someone with positive energy is advocating FOR people becoming pilots. Have you taken a look at his comments on YouTube? People are eating this stuff up. They really love the videos. The ratio of likes to dislikes is staggeringly different. He’s clearly doing something right, or none of you would be talking about him ;)

450knotOffice
06-19-2019, 10:01 PM
I’m pretty sure I explained it crystal clear with my post.

If you choose not to acknowledge the valid points I’ve made on how he is, that’s on you.

And let’s make this clear, I don’t hate this guy. Idc about his orientation.

Many including myself feel a way about this person because his loyalty is sided with the company at a time where it shows they’re clearly against us and his loyalty is not the pilot group and it shows.

But if that’s his perogative then so be it, but that’s a heck of a way to not make friends around here in this hostile environment.

I respectfully acknowledge your opinion, but don’t really agree with it. I’m not sure that his videos really have as much recruiting power as you and others think. Most young adults out there considering a career in this field are smart enough to realize that Envoy is not the only game in town, nor anywhere near the most “glamorous”. It’s just one of half a dozen regionals vying for pilots. I think most young adults are savvy enough to find the forums, read, and realize that it’s not all rainbows and unicorns at Envoy (or any regional, for that matter). Most will do their due diligence and choose according to their own needs.

As I see it, his vids simply help explain the life of a regional pilot from his perspective. In an overall sense, there isn’t much difference in the daily lives and schedules of pilots for Skywest, Envoy, Expressjet, etc., so his vids can carry over to many different regional airlines.

Just my opinion, for what it’s worth, which is nothing really. 😉

Firefighterpilo
06-19-2019, 10:16 PM
You’re right. He hasn’t been through the “rough times” you’re mentioning. But I also disagree with your statement on his “unrealistic” picture of the job. Have you actually watched any of his videos? I think he does a damn good job explaining topics that no one has talked about online: Ground School, Sims, Reserve, OT, IOE, etc. The latest videos have been nothing but facts and a breakdown of his day to day job. I for one, recently out of flight school, find it INCREDIBLY helpful for understanding my soon-to-be job.

They aren’t exciting videos. They’re actually pretty boring, and not in the least bit “glossy.” Here’s a thought... Isn’t there enough out there readily available online to dissuade people from this career? Harsh forums, union negotiations, negative press, strikes, low wages, etc. Airline pilots do a damn good job of complaining online. Hell, it almost turned me away from becoming a pilot. I don’t think there’s any doubt that someone seriously looking at this career path will discover those negative factors.

And yet... I find it refreshing that someone with positive energy is advocating FOR people becoming pilots. Have you taken a look at his comments on YouTube? People are eating this stuff up. They really love the videos. The ratio of likes to dislikes is staggeringly different. He’s clearly doing something right, or none of you would be talking about him ;)


Thank you for proving my point. You are brand new to the industry and have no idea what it really means to fly for a living in the airlines. You are the exact person spouting off the exact stuff I was talking about. You know nothing about the ins and outs of this career except for what you see on his videos, and as shown above you preach it like gospel.

I was flying the not to long ago where pilots were getting paid $20,000 a year sitting on reserve at a regional for 5-7 years. How did management get away with such low salaries and QOL? Because people like you would see videos like this and say “gee golly I want to fly shiny jets and travel in a cool uniform.”

Trust me fella you are new to this game. Check back in when you have been in this career and seen yourself and friends take pay cuts or lose jobs because someone is always willing to fly you plane for cheaper. Your attitude will change..

I am all for him being enthusiastic and loving what he does that is refreshing. But when guys like you, straight out of training tell me videos like this are helping you prepare for the career I become worried. This is literally the blind leading the blind,

You have no idea how bad this career was a few short years ago but as long as people still line up to fly “cool” jets management did and could again get away with racing this profession to the bottom.

What you fail to realize is the only reason salaries and QOL improvements have been happening is because of the pilot shortage, that management created with their own greed. These regional jets he so loves only exists because executives found guys willing to fly mainline routes and mainline legs for pennies on the dollar.

I am excited for him and all the new pilots entering the career it is a good time. but it also was in August 2001, things change and they change quick. We as a profession, need you new guys to know the true reality that this career can bring so you have all the facts.

This is nothing against who he is as a person or pilot. Either way he is just a YouTube guy, he is not hurting anything and enjoying himself, but a lot of us come from a time where these “types” of propaganda greatly undermined this amazing profession, and we are gun shy. I believe rightfully so.

By no mean am I trying to attack you or say your belief is wrong. I just want to educate you where some of us are coming from. Fly safe!

tengssuuciurta
06-20-2019, 12:00 AM
Well, these are three posts that stood out to me after the photo of him and the other guy holding the rainbow flag was posted:









So, yes. Those three posts come off as bigoted.

All the rest is just good discussion, even if I disagree to an extent.
An American flag defaced to express sodomy has no place in a professional environment.

SoFloFlyer
06-20-2019, 04:50 AM
Crazy how you guys are bashing him and then in the same sentence y’all about loyalty. I get everyone’s points and I don’t really agree with them.

I’m gonna be at an indoc soon and his videos have me a realistic explanation of how it’ll look for me. He’s kept it factual and I appreciate that.

In regards to the ugly side of the industry (furloughs, pay cuts, etc...), that won’t be the case for the next 10-20 years (pending a serious crisis). I know y’all are salty, but it’s not this generation’s fault that the industry is great and we’re capitalizing on it.

If you all were in his position, I know you all would do the same. It was said before, we don’t start out making livable wages (though I think it’s livable, but whatever) so anything helps to pay off that mountain of debt.

buddies8
06-20-2019, 04:54 AM
Not only that but supported and encouraged buy a publicly traded company, guess political neutral does not exists at aag.

Regarding Dwayne, you guys giving him to much coverage, he is what he is, those who support him won't be changing and neither are those against him. So let's just kill this thread for the good of all.

rld1k
06-20-2019, 05:56 AM
Crazy how you guys are bashing him and then in the same sentence y’all about loyalty. I get everyone’s points and I don’t really agree with them.

I’m gonna be at an indoc soon and his videos have me a realistic explanation of how it’ll look for me. He’s kept it factual and I appreciate that.

In regards to the ugly side of the industry (furloughs, pay cuts, etc...), that won’t be the case for the next 10-20 years (pending a serious crisis). I know y’all are salty, but it’s not this generation’s fault that the industry is great and we’re capitalizing on it.

If you all were in his position, I know you all would do the same. It was said before, we don’t start out making livable wages (though I think it’s livable, but whatever) so anything helps to pay off that mountain of debt.

So many things wrong here not even going to bother

Inclined plane
06-20-2019, 06:24 AM
So many things wrong here not even going to bother



+1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cyio
06-20-2019, 06:29 AM
Crazy how you guys are bashing him and then in the same sentence y’all about loyalty. I get everyone’s points and I don’t really agree with them.

I’m gonna be at an indoc soon and his videos have me a realistic explanation of how it’ll look for me. He’s kept it factual and I appreciate that.

In regards to the ugly side of the industry (furloughs, pay cuts, etc...), that won’t be the case for the next 10-20 years (pending a serious crisis). I know y’all are salty, but it’s not this generation’s fault that the industry is great and we’re capitalizing on it.

If you all were in his position, I know you all would do the same. It was said before, we don’t start out making livable wages (though I think it’s livable, but whatever) so anything helps to pay off that mountain of debt.
This is the most tragically delusional post I have read in a long time.

Firefighterpilo
06-20-2019, 06:37 AM
This is the most tragically delusional post I have read in a long time.

I was thinking the same thing. He is proving my point for me. The real world is about to hit him like a ton of bricks. I had his exact same attitude until one day some guys ran planes into buildings, oil spiked, age 65 and the recession. He doesn’t realize how shaky the deck of cards truly is. When I was new I always would listen to the seasoned guys. As my dad says “you have two ears and one mouth for a reason”. Some but definitely not all, of these rookies have no idea how quickly things change in this industry and the real reason why wages and QOL are improving. I am happy for these new guys and how well the industry is trending but if you don’t learn from history you are doomed to repeat it. Not only do some of these SJS guys not only not learning they are not caring to know about history in this business.

pitchattitude
06-20-2019, 07:32 AM
Crazy how you guys are bashing him and then in the same sentence y’all about loyalty. I get everyone’s points and I don’t really agree with them.

I’m gonna be at an indoc soon and his videos have me a realistic explanation of how it’ll look for me. He’s kept it factual and I appreciate that.

In regards to the ugly side of the industry (furloughs, pay cuts, etc...), that won’t be the case for the next 10-20 years (pending a serious crisis). I know y’all are salty, but it’s not this generation’s fault that the industry is great and we’re capitalizing on it.

If you all were in his position, I know you all would do the same. It was said before, we don’t start out making livable wages (though I think it’s livable, but whatever) so anything helps to pay off that mountain of debt.
You are HOPING this is the case. We all are. But there are so many things that can make the industry go south in a hurry.

wiz5422
06-20-2019, 08:07 AM
In regards to the ugly side of the industry (furloughs, pay cuts, etc...), that won’t be the case for the next 10-20 years (pending a serious crisis). I know y’all are salty, but it’s not this generation’s fault that the industry is great and we’re capitalizing on it.




Wait until.you talk to the CA who were hired and told they would be at AA in 2 years. They also thought the industry was golden for the next 10 to 20 years. Read some history on Pan Am and eastern airlines of you think AAG is solid.

You have a lot to learn and HAVE BEEN WATCHING TO MANY OF SWAYNE'S VIDEOS.

pitchattitude
06-20-2019, 08:15 AM
Wait until.you talk to the CA who were hired and told they would be at AA in 2 years. They also thought the industry was golden for the next 10 to 20 years. Read some history on Pan Am and eastern airlines of you think AAG is solid.

You have a lot to learn and HAVE BEEN WATCHING TO MANY OF SWAYNE'S VIDEOS.

Swayne may just be “presenting facts” but FOX and CNN both present the same news but don’t have the news cast.

He just needs to quit broadcasting until Envoy pilots get a raise.

henryjj
06-20-2019, 10:28 AM
Swayne may just be “presenting facts” but FOX and CNN both present the same news but don’t have the news cast.

He just needs to quit broadcasting until Envoy pilots get a raise.

Did no one notice he posted the recent video just a few hours before the union news? I bet he won’t post anything until it cools down.

Inclined plane
06-20-2019, 11:10 AM
Did no one notice he posted the recent video just a few hours before the union news? I bet he won’t post anything until it cools down.



Did you not notice he posted it during active negotiations while our union was at bat? Just because it was posted before the bad news broke does not negate the tastelessness of posting a recruitment video during pay negotiations. Your SA is about in line with Swayne’s, nonexistent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

buddies8
06-20-2019, 11:48 AM
Very true statement inclined plane

henryjj
06-20-2019, 12:02 PM
Did you not notice he posted it during active negotiations while our union was at bat? Just because it was posted before the bad news broke does not negate the tastelessness of posting a recruitment video during pay negotiations. Your SA is about in line with Swayne’s, nonexistent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here’s a question. Do you honestly think his videos have enough pull to determine the success or failure of a contract worth tens of millions of dollars over time? I seriously doubt it. And if he does, he shouldn’t be a regional airline pilot.

pitchattitude
06-20-2019, 12:18 PM
Here’s a question. Do you honestly think his videos have enough pull to determine the success or failure of a contract worth tens of millions of dollars over time? I seriously doubt it. And if he does, he shouldn’t be a regional airline pilot.
Success or failure, absolutely not. But if he makes the difference in a few people it could make a difference by a few months of the company dragggginng things out. Already been long enough. We need EVERYTHING to make this happen sooner rather than later.

And apparently the company is going after those that say anything negative, so the least we can do is try to prevent ANYTHING that could POSSIBLY be positive.

Inclined plane
06-20-2019, 12:22 PM
Here’s a question. Do you honestly think his videos have enough pull to determine the success or failure of a contract worth tens of millions of dollars over time? I seriously doubt it. And if he does, he shouldn’t be a regional airline pilot.



So by your rationale, no single person affects any real change, is that it?

So do you advocate littering as well, since your garbage thrown out the window driving down the highway won’t completely destroy the environment single handedly, correct?

Your logic is flawed. You are attempting to rationalize poor decision making, into not being that big of a deal.

The point is that regardless of whether or not it has a severely negative impact against our pilots during a time of pay negotiations, it doesn’t matter. It’s still not the decent thing to do, because it may potentially harm Pilots by helping recruitment during pay negotiations.

Furthermore, the company is on record directly linking newhire numbers to whether or not they’d raise the pay, so I’d say yes it is entirely possible that a YouTuber could actually influence said contract worth tens of millions over time. Note that I merely said possible.

MochaSwirl
06-20-2019, 03:01 PM
So by your rationale, no single person affects any real change, is that it?

So do you advocate littering as well, since your garbage thrown out the window driving down the highway won’t completely destroy the environment single handedly, correct?

Your logic is flawed. You are attempting to rationalize poor decision making, into not being that big of a deal.

The point is that regardless of whether or not it has a severely negative impact against our pilots during a time of pay negotiations, it doesn’t matter. It’s still not the decent thing to do, because it may potentially harm Pilots by helping recruitment during pay negotiations.

Furthermore, the company is on record directly linking newhire numbers to whether or not they’d raise the pay, so I’d say yes it is entirely possible that a YouTuber could actually influence said contract worth tens of millions over time. Note that I merely said possible.


This guy gets it. Thank you.

FullThrust
06-20-2019, 06:38 PM
Thank you for proving my point. You are brand new to the industry and have no idea what it really means to fly for a living in the airlines. You are the exact person spouting off the exact stuff I was talking about. You know nothing about the ins and outs of this career except for what you see on his videos, and as shown above you preach it like gospel.

I was flying the not to long ago where pilots were getting paid $20,000 a year sitting on reserve at a regional for 5-7 years. How did management get away with such low salaries and QOL? Because people like you would see videos like this and say “gee golly I want to fly shiny jets and travel in a cool uniform.”

Trust me fella you are new to this game. Check back in when you have been in this career and seen yourself and friends take pay cuts or lose jobs because someone is always willing to fly you plane for cheaper. Your attitude will change..

I am all for him being enthusiastic and loving what he does that is refreshing. But when guys like you, straight out of training tell me videos like this are helping you prepare for the career I become worried. This is literally the blind leading the blind,

You have no idea how bad this career was a few short years ago but as long as people still line up to fly “cool” jets management did and could again get away with racing this profession to the bottom.

What you fail to realize is the only reason salaries and QOL improvements have been happening is because of the pilot shortage, that management created with their own greed. These regional jets he so loves only exists because executives found guys willing to fly mainline routes and mainline legs for pennies on the dollar.

I am excited for him and all the new pilots entering the career it is a good time. but it also was in August 2001, things change and they change quick. We as a profession, need you new guys to know the true reality that this career can bring so you have all the facts.

This is nothing against who he is as a person or pilot. Either way he is just a YouTube guy, he is not hurting anything and enjoying himself, but a lot of us come from a time where these “types” of propaganda greatly undermined this amazing profession, and we are gun shy. I believe rightfully so.

By no mean am I trying to attack you or say your belief is wrong. I just want to educate you where some of us are coming from. Fly safe!

The only reason management got away with such crappy pay and QOL is because you applied and accepted the job. Yet here you are on your high horse giving someone a hard time for the exact same thing you did (for less money and QOL even). Perspective.

SoFloFlyer
06-20-2019, 07:13 PM
Thank you for proving my point. You are brand new to the industry and have no idea what it really means to fly for a living in the airlines. You are the exact person spouting off the exact stuff I was talking about. You know nothing about the ins and outs of this career except for what you see on his videos, and as shown above you preach it like gospel.

I was flying the not to long ago where pilots were getting paid $20,000 a year sitting on reserve at a regional for 5-7 years. How did management get away with such low salaries and QOL? Because people like you would see videos like this and say “gee golly I want to fly shiny jets and travel in a cool uniform.”

Trust me fella you are new to this game. Check back in when you have been in this career and seen yourself and friends take pay cuts or lose jobs because someone is always willing to fly you plane for cheaper. Your attitude will change..

I am all for him being enthusiastic and loving what he does that is refreshing. But when guys like you, straight out of training tell me videos like this are helping you prepare for the career I become worried. This is literally the blind leading the blind,

You have no idea how bad this career was a few short years ago but as long as people still line up to fly “cool” jets management did and could again get away with racing this profession to the bottom.

What you fail to realize is the only reason salaries and QOL improvements have been happening is because of the pilot shortage, that management created with their own greed. These regional jets he so loves only exists because executives found guys willing to fly mainline routes and mainline legs for pennies on the dollar.

I am excited for him and all the new pilots entering the career it is a good time. but it also was in August 2001, things change and they change quick. We as a profession, need you new guys to know the true reality that this career can bring so you have all the facts.

This is nothing against who he is as a person or pilot. Either way he is just a YouTube guy, he is not hurting anything and enjoying himself, but a lot of us come from a time where these “types” of propaganda greatly undermined this amazing profession, and we are gun shy. I believe rightfully so.

By no mean am I trying to attack you or say your belief is wrong. I just want to educate you where some of us are coming from. Fly safe!

I’m only gonna reply to you because you actually tried to give a meaningful reply to my post which is appreciated.

Now, a few things to point out. We all agree that he’s kept it factual so there’s no argument there. Because of that, I got a realistic glimpse into things like bidding, reserve, etc... That’s what I was referring too when I said that his videos helped me.

Next, I also said “pending a crisis.” I know we’re only a 9/11, market crash, oil spike away from furloughs. I didn’t say we were say, but the math is still there to support the statement “best time to get into aviation.”

Lastly, $40k/yr is by no means an amount to brag about. But if you plan accordingly, that will get you by until you can make more money as a CA or until you get to a major or LCC. Think I’m lying? That’s my reality right now (actually make a little less than $40k right now) as a married man. I’m not just a kid fresh out of some fancy school with an over priced degree eager to fly a jet. I have a responsibilities just like you all.

To end this, I’d like to say that it’s disheartening to see so many older guys come across salty. I know it’s because you all had it hard for nearly a decade thought. I don’t blame y’all for being jaded at times.

Hope y’all win the fight with management and get a pay raise and better QOL. Y’all deserve at least that.

450knotOffice
06-20-2019, 08:02 PM
The only reason management got away with such crappy pay and QOL is because you applied and accepted the job. Yet here you are on your high horse giving someone a hard time for the exact same thing you did (for less money and QOL even). Perspective.

The irony, eh?

450knotOffice
06-20-2019, 08:12 PM
To end this, I’d like to say that it’s disheartening to see so many older guys come across salty. I know it’s because you all had it hard for nearly a decade thought. I don’t blame y’all for being jaded at times.

Hope y’all win the fight with management and get a pay raise and better QOL. Y’all deserve at least that.

At 55, I’m even older than most of these guys, got into the airlines at the “commuter” level in 1991 at age 27, lived through even worse times than most of them, and am very aware of the ups and downs of this business. With that said, I never let this job define me. I never let it affect my personal life. I ALWAYS (well usually, lol) enjoyed my crews, and the part of the job that started after we pushed and disconnected from the tug and were on our own.
Most of my friends in this business have been in the industry nearly as long as me and yet none of them let’s this job define them and they all are great people to hang around on any given day. They are NOT salty, crusty old dogs.
It’s perspective. Fight the fight, but don’t take it home with you. Don’t become that miserable dude we all HATE flying with. 😉

Firefighterpilo
06-20-2019, 09:37 PM
Typoooss I apologize

Firefighterpilo
06-20-2019, 09:53 PM
[QUOTE=Firefighterpilo;2840597]

I appreciate everyone’s input and opinion on here the debates help me have a robust understanding of different view points. I am in no way trying to appear salty i guess I did a bad job but was merely trying to help illustrate where some opinions on this matter may come from. I am only trying to show the possible thought process some may have. I honestly do not care one way or another. I genuinely love seeing people passionate about flying and excited about reaching their goals one reason I still instruct on occasion. I am merely trying to show you the negative reality that you could, but hopefully not, encounter in your long quest of this great career. This way some of you can do better maintaining an appropriate level of optimism then did. I learned the hard way that just wanting and expecting things to go a certain way, seldom ensures it does.

No high horse at all I am just providing a more realistic view of the industry. I absolutely did accept a job at that pay in the early 2000s. My airline management at that time was using bullet points identical to what Envoy recruiters, and these types of youtube videos are preaching to pilot prospects today. I honestly believe management has used the same recruiting propaganda for 40 years to get butts in seats and then recycle them from airline to airline. Back then I was promised fast movement, flow and upgrade in under 2 years with some new FOs holding lines right off IOE. None of which came to fruition in large part to outside forces that no one predicted or expected at the time. The era before the lost decade and the current climate are eerily similar in breadth prediction. In this industry things can and usually do change very rapid and unpredictability.

I was fortunate enough to have the majority of my family in the airline industry for decades going back to when the dc-3 was still doing the heavy lifting. The pilots in my immediate family have flown for PanAm, Eastern, Delta, United and Braniff and all have seen but never forecasted major life altering changes over the years. My grandfather was with Eastern at the peak in the 70s and also during the low of Frank Lorenzo era. He learned a very valuable and hard fought lesson watching scabs and management wipsaws ruin his beloved airline. After enduring the free fall the once stable Eastern Pilots faced while watching their executives make millions left a bad taste in his mouth. He made it a point for me to understand how things were, how they are and how fast they can change. Because of this mentorship by family and friends I felt like I had a grasp on the industries history and how managements predatory tactics with help from the RLA has shape the profession. At the time I felt I had a knowledgable solid foundation of what I could expect and most likely experience in my career based off the same info that is being preached to today’s new pilots. Turns out I was dead wrong and the perfect storm of bad events called “the lost decade” came to fruition. As heart breaking as it was I learned some great life lessons during this time I cherish.

As you so kindly pointed out I accepted the job thinking I knew what I was in for and how nothing would slow down this industry. Even though I tried to maintain reasonable expectations during that particular period of time, just like today, things were humming along and the outlook was rosy. I figured conservatively in that hiring environment I would be at a major 3-4 years after starting regional ioe. But when i was in my 6th year with the regional and still just an FO stuck on reserve with no end in sight (barely missing the dreaded furlough most others endured)I decided to re-evaluate life and make some hard decisions. Myself and many peers in the same boat made the tough choice of changing careers. Therefore voting with our feet.

I have been blessed during all this I now am fortunate to have an amazing career I love where daily I get to make positive and lasting changes in my community that leaves me fulfilled not just doing volunteer work to check a box. I am thankful my second profession provided me with many things flying never did including amazing pay, schedules, pensions, respect in the community, transferable skills and most importantly rock solid job stability. These reasons for me make going back to flying unrealistic at this stage. Fortunately I now have the time and disposable income to fly a few times a week to fulfill my aviation passion.

I did not intend to come across as preaching or in any way condescending. I merely was trying to provide some context about why some of his co workers might have issues with his videos and why these videos can rub some aviators the wrong way. This, just like it was when I was fresh out of college, is a great time to be a pilot. I truly hope this new generation of pilots will not experience the hardship that myself and those before me have experienced. But if history is any lesson pilots should hope for the best and plan on the worse. Careers can be similar to stocks you want to buy low and sale high. I am scared that rookies getting in right now maybe “buying” high and soon to be sold low.

The industry has changed course and been heading up but the top of a hill is usually followed with a steep and unexpected drop. Never forget that. Most of my college friends and colleagues are now on at the majors bidding senior FOs or junior captains. As seen on this thread there are still thousands of qualified experienced pilots on the sidelines waiting for the right changes to make flying viable and economically feasible career for them as daily more return to the cockpit. Myself, if I could make it work financially there are days I would love to go back to the airlines but alas I will wait till I can retire at 50 and then see where the cards fall. Luckily when I get the pilot bug my wife is quick to ground me and remind me how quickly aviation can go bad and how miserable it can be sometimes. More so with family and mortgages added in the mix.

I don’t mind his videos and see them as well produced and informative but I always try to listen to and understand both sides of an argument before forming any belief or opinion on the matter. Sorry about this long diatribe and tangents. In short Envoy and all pilots should always want there to be a shortage of prospects waiting in the pipe. It is one of the main forces that drives the current trend of salary and QOL improvements. Pilot shortages are great for pilots and bad for management. Low pay and bad contracts, the supply dwindles and flights cancel, pilots leave the field for more lucrative careers. Pool then dries up so management must now improve pilot salaries and benefits to attract qualified pilots. The smaller the pool of pilots the harder management must work to improve salaries and QOL to attract pilots away from their competitors. Conversely a large pool allows management to cut and wipesaw pilots against each other till they gut the elure of the profession so much guys leave, the pool shrinks, wash and repeat the cycles of the airline industry the last 70 years. In my experience as long as pilots keep showing up for class (a large pool) management sees no reason to improve wages. If tomorrow envoy stopped filling the training classes (small supply, large demand) it would make you head spin how fast management can find money to increase wages and QOL of their pilot group. One could make an argument that these videos don’t help increase Envoys hiring pool (Large supply)they may not hurt but the videos are definitely not helping the MEC and ALPA with the negotiation leverage that empty classes provide. At its worse and not my opinion one could argue, these videos can be construed as misleading management propaganda that paints a inaccurate or incomplete picture of the career compared to what many have experienced. IE serving the interest of management over labor. That coupled with with the whole society stigma many over 35 have against “social media influencers” clearly can and have created a unwarranted target that frustrated pilots to vent about.

I genuinely love this board and all the different types of personalities, prospective and experience that everyone brings. Fly safe!

450knotOffice
06-20-2019, 11:22 PM
Long but refreshing read. Thank you.

Cheers.

Tyrion
06-20-2019, 11:41 PM
Did no one notice he posted the recent video just a few hours before the union news? I bet he won’t post anything until it cools down.

If he wanted to use his celebrity leverage for the benefit of the pilot group in this negotiation, he could simply set all of these videos to private until the negotiations are over.

The videos say "In Partnership with Envoy" and the Envoy logo is shown or Envoy mentioned numerous times adding that marketing benefit. His audience seems to be mostly high school kids and college kids in flight schools, (aka future cadets with shiny jet syndrome).

His videos are factual in what he describes, but he conveniently avoids or sugarcoats the negatives. For example, he describes his lines as same day commutable, but didn't mention that he needed to be at the Fargo airport before 5am to commute to a 5 leg day that ended 18 hours later. Or that his commutable on the back end trips only have 1 flight that leaves within an hour of his block in (hope he doesn't get delayed). These are things that someone who spent time in the industry will notice with caution, but they sound great to a starry-eyed CFI with a cadet application next to the computer.

He is specifically describing line holding in terms specific to Envoy. It doesn't seem like he knows or has researched line holding at other airlines. He just mentions "it varies". Yeah, it varies... in ways that are better at many other airlines.

I will give credit to the CAs in his videos. It seems like they are reluctantly agreeing to be in his videos as you usually only see the back of their heads.

I'm not sure if Envoy is paying him extra on the side. This kind of product placement would be worth big money to other youtube influencers. I haven't noticed any other revenue streams on his Envoy videos. His 2+ million views on Envoy would probably have earned him about $5,000 - $10,000 if he just had YT ads running.

Claxstarr
06-21-2019, 07:34 AM
His 2+ million views on Envoy would probably have earned him about $5,000 - $10,000 if he just had YT ads running.


Not quite.
I have a video on YT with almost 3M hits, and it’s roughly $1000/million views with ads on with YT.
Still decent money, but definitely not 10k

Thedude86
06-21-2019, 08:04 AM
Just think how much it would hurt recruiting if he was telling 2 million people that Envoy has the lowest pay and worst QOL of almost any regional right now?

You’d probably have your raises tomorrow.

Claxstarr
06-21-2019, 08:11 AM
Just think how much it would hurt recruiting if he was telling 2 million people that Envoy has the lowest pay and worst QOL of almost any regional right now?



You’d probably have your raises tomorrow.



Maybe the pilots as a whole need to have a chat with ol swayneyboy...
If he refuses to make a video on the subject, then maybe that in itself is an answer to many questions being brought up here.

I think that’s a great idea.

wiz5422
06-21-2019, 08:19 AM
Thing to remember is that the aviation industry is a small community and you don't want to make any enemies or burn any bridges. He isn't making many friends right now with current and former envoy pilots and some current AA pilots.

MochaSwirl
06-21-2019, 08:31 AM
Maybe the pilots as a whole need to have a chat with ol swayneyboy...
If he refuses to make a video on the subject, then maybe that in itself is an answer to many questions being brought up here.

I think that’s a great idea.

Yea, I think he’d go directly to management and claim harassment.

But nothings stopping you from posting a comment on his video calling him out though.

Not that it would deter him from changing what he’s doing.

Claxstarr
06-21-2019, 08:38 AM
Yea, I think he’d go directly to management and claim harassment.



But nothings stopping you from posting a comment on his video calling him out though.



Not that it would deter him from changing what he’s doing.



I agree, which is why I think it would have to be a letter from all the pilots at envoy as a whole. Maybe if there was a group that all the envoy pilots belonged to that took on bargaining and grievances.

TheRaven
06-21-2019, 08:45 AM
I think everyone needs to step back and respect his extensive insight and experience in the airline industry..........

rickair7777
06-21-2019, 08:57 AM
If he wanted to use his celebrity leverage for the benefit of the pilot group in this negotiation, he could simply set all of these videos to private until the negotiations are over.


That would defeat the whole purpose: Attention

If the dude was making the same videos about flight training or instruction, OK fine. Not my cup of tea, but that's a generational thing.

But he's making enthusiastic, positive videos about his employment at an airline that a) has one the lower-ranked contracts in the industry b) is in negotiations and c) they are not going well.

Ya'll should encourage him to zip it. He must have been told that by somebody by now. I frankly would not want him in my pilot group although with flow I guess he doesn't have to care what anyone thinks.

LowerLoon185
06-21-2019, 09:05 AM
Maybe the pilots as a whole need to have a chat with ol swayneyboy...


Claxstarr....I'm sure you are well intentioned, but that first sentence could be misconstrued.

Thedude86
06-21-2019, 09:12 AM
That would defeat the whole purpose: Attention

If the dude was making the same videos about flight training or instruction, OK fine. Not my cup of tea, but that's a generational thing.

But he's making enthusiastic, positive videos about his employment at an airline that a) has one the lower-ranked contracts in the industry b) is in negotiations and c) they are not going well.

Ya'll should encourage him to zip it. He must have been told that by somebody by now. I frankly would not want him in my pilot group although with flow I guess he doesn't have to care what anyone thinks.

I agree.

While I honestly believe if he made a video about the actual pay and QOL compared to other regionals it would cause classes to start drying up pretty quickly. Realistically though, he probably won’t do that. At the least he needs to refrain until you guys get true meaningful gains.

Looking at one of his most recent videos just 3 comments down and I quote...

“As I stated in your other posts, you are an excellent SPOKESMAN for your airline. MANAGEMENT must know this. I can see you being an instructor in no time.”

CAPS are my doing, but that is a direct verbatim quote.

Tyrion
06-21-2019, 09:15 AM
Not quite.
I have a video on YT with almost 3M hits, and it’s roughly $1000/million views with ads on with YT.
Still decent money, but definitely not 10k

Milage may vary. I have no idea what your videos are about, or how well they convert on ad play and click through rates. His are very specific, and I estimate that his videos would have a high bid and conversion rates from flight schools and regional recruiters.

The product pitch is the bigger issue. I know a girl with about a quarter of his views that made well over $10k by doing product demos for about a minute in each of her videos. This guy is making 10 minute infomercials.

henryjj
06-21-2019, 09:55 AM
I agree.

While I honestly believe if he made a video about the actual pay and QOL compared to other regionals it would cause classes to start drying up pretty quickly. Realistically though, he probably won’t do that. At the least he needs to refrain until you guys get true meaningful gains.

Looking at one of his most recent videos just 3 comments down and I quote...

“As I stated in your other posts, you are an excellent SPOKESMAN for your airline. MANAGEMENT must know this. I can see you being an instructor in no time.”

CAPS are my doing, but that is a direct verbatim quote.

So let me get this straight. His videos are bad for pilots during contract negotiations. But they’re good when the contract is good, because it keeps people coming in the door?... Thus, the flow continues unimpeded.

Do any of you want the chance at flowing one day? Sounds like he’s helping you get there :eek:

pitchattitude
06-21-2019, 10:04 AM
Swayne’s videos are authorized by Envoy. He will never make anything that will hurt his ability to continue that relationship which tells where his allegiance is.

And I’m reasonably certain he has some sort of written agreement (contract) to do these videos. If he wants to stay in the graces of the pilot group, he should just keep those videos off the cyber until there is a new pay agreement. HIS agreement may say he has to do a certain number or frequency or may not.

But again, whether you think he has no impact, or a huge impact on numbers at Envoy, ANYTHING that does not HELP the pilot group is helping the company.

A friend of my enemy is my enemy and it is good to keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

His videos need to stop.

pitchattitude
06-21-2019, 10:08 AM
So let me get this straight. His videos are bad for pilots during contract negotiations. But they’re good when the contract is good, because it keeps people coming in the door?... Thus, the flow continues unimpeded.

Do any of you want the chance at flowing one day? Sounds like he’s helping you get there :eek:

Sounds like the company line on why they can pay us so little.

But there is flow...

The flow is not a guarantee beyond a certain point. Also there are no guarantees any of us will be able to continue to fly. The flow may or may not have a future value, but increased pay and QOL have a current value.

Firefighterpilo
06-21-2019, 10:25 AM
I agree.

While I honestly believe if he made a video about the actual pay and QOL compared to other regionals it would cause classes to start drying up pretty quickly. Realistically though, he probably won’t do that. At the least he needs to refrain until you guys get true meaningful gains.

Looking at one of his most recent videos just 3 comments down and I quote...

“As I stated in your other posts, you are an excellent SPOKESMAN for your airline. MANAGEMENT must know this. I can see you being an instructor in no time.”

CAPS are my doing, but that is a direct verbatim quote.

Personally I don’t mind his videos and see them as well produced and selectively informative for the purpose they serve. However I am clearly not the target audience these are heavily pandering towards others (ie..CFI with SJS and flight sim “pro pilots”.) These videos provide positive reinforcement to those who want their beliefs of the industry verified and not challenge. Like msnbc to liberals or Fox News to conservatives it is nothing more then an echo chamber giving the uninitiated a very one dimensional view. I try to listen to and understand both sides of an argument before forming any belief or opinion on the matter, and believe those coming into this field, need a unbiased and comprehensive overview on the reality of this industry, not the white washed, flight school narrative these candidates are bombarded by flight schools and reenforced throygh recruitment Depts.

In short Envoy pilots and all pro aviators should always desire there to be a shortage of prospects waiting in the pipe. It is one of the main forces that drives the current trend of salary and QOL improvements. Pilot shortages are great for pilots and bad for management. Low pay and bad contracts, the supply dwindles and flights cancel, pilots leave the field for more lucrative careers. Pool then dries up so management must now improve pilot salaries and benefits to attract qualified pilots. The smaller the pool of pilots the harder management must work to improve salaries and QOL to attract pilots away from their competitors. Conversely a large pool allows management to cut and wipesaw pilots against each other till they gut the elure of the profession causing many guys to leave and others not to pursue , the pool shrinks again, wash and repeat and thus the cycles of the airline industry the last 70 years. In my experience as long as pilots keep showing up for class (a large pool) management sees no reason to improve wages or conditions. Why would they? Cutting cost and doing more with less is in their job description. However, if tomorrow envoy stopped filling the training classes (small supply, large demand) it would make your head spin how fast management can find money to increase wages and QOL of their pilot group. One could make an argument that these videos only nominally help increase Envoys hiring pool (Large supply). That may be true but his channel is definitely not helping the MEC with the important negotiation leverage that empty classes provide. The regional business model is built in a way that empty training classes provides the greatest leverage to counter the management negotiation tactics of maintaining status quo. When the inability of the recruitment dept to fill it’s class sizes occurs, the exec’s perk their ears up and offer change. To management this loss of supply represents solid financial proof that current pilot wages are not insync with the present market factors influencing pilot supply and demand. As shown many times over then, and only then, will management submit to pay and QOL improvements. As long as Envoy can fill their seats, and they are thanks in part to glossy recruitment ads and Swayne’s videos, management will drag its feet on negotiations, thus saving money and pleasing investors. The day tangible evidence shows current contracts are below market indicators things will improve but not until this point. At its worse, and not necessarily my personal opinion, one could argue, these videos can be construed as misleading management propaganda that paints a inaccurate or incomplete picture of the career compared to what many have experienced. IE serving the interest of management over labor. That coupled with with the whole society stigma many over the age of 35 have against “social media influencers”, helps create a perfect storm drawing disdain, complaints and ire from his peers and other experience airline pilots. For years management salivates and utilize these types of videos to toe the company line and undermine its unions. In summary if you are not helping you are hurting and Swayne is definitely not helping.

Thedude86
06-21-2019, 10:32 AM
So let me get this straight. His videos are bad for pilots during contract negotiations. But they’re good when the contract is good, because it keeps people coming in the door?... Thus, the flow continues unimpeded.

Do any of you want the chance at flowing one day? Sounds like he’s helping you get there :eek:

I never said they were good. They might be good for young and future aviators. They’re also good for management, but they are certainly not good for the pilot group no matter if times are good or times are bad.

I’m guessing you’re relatively new in the 121 world. Your “25 million dollar” contract isn’t at the hands of Swayne Martin. It’s at the hands of how many people are showing up for class. It doesn’t matter if you have Jimmy Hoffa and Al Capone in the flesh negotiating for you. If you are still filling classes... you will get jack squat and like it. Swayne Martin is a major influence on how many people show up for class. A lot of people getting into the regionals don’t know that Envoy has some of lowest pay and worst QOL of the industry right now. Sure maybe things are just like they were 2-3 years ago, but the difference is a new hire will have a much better experience at almost any other airline right now. A lot of new hires don’t realize that. A lot of them only know what they hear from recruiters, see advertised on Envoy’s website, and what they see in Swayne’s videos. And I would guess more people see what they think life is like from Swayne than they do from recruiters. He’s a huge influence.

Thedude86
06-21-2019, 10:40 AM
So let me get this straight. His videos are bad for pilots during contract negotiations. But they’re good when the contract is good, because it keeps people coming in the door?... Thus, the flow continues unimpeded.

Do any of you want the chance at flowing one day? Sounds like he’s helping you get there :eek:

If Envoy cuts the flow for any reason recruitment would go from hero to zero in no time. Even Swayne couldn’t salvage that.

DollaBillz
06-21-2019, 11:29 AM
I never said they were good. They might be good for young and future aviators. They’re also good for management, but they are certainly not good for the pilot group no matter if times are good or times are bad.

I’m guessing you’re relatively new in the 121 world. Your “25 million dollar” contract isn’t at the hands of Swayne Martin. It’s at the hands of how many people are showing up for class. It doesn’t matter if you have Jimmy Hoffa and Al Capone in the flesh negotiating for you. If you are still filling classes... you will get jack squat and like it. Swayne Martin is a major influence on how many people show up for class. A lot of people getting into the regionals don’t know that Envoy has some of lowest pay and worst QOL of the industry right now. Sure maybe things are just like they were 2-3 years ago, but the difference is a new hire will have a much better experience at almost any other airline right now. A lot of new hires don’t realize that. A lot of them only know what they hear from recruiters, see advertised on Envoy’s website, and what they see in Swayne’s videos. And I would guess more people see what they think life is like from Swayne than they do from recruiters. He’s a huge influence.
Yep, never underestimate the ignorance/stupidity of bug-eyed 23-24 year old CFI's looking to go for a regional. They will apply to the first regional they see and accept an offer from the first regional that extends said offer. When you type "regional airline pilot" into the search bar, two of the first five videos are Swayne's videos, and these CFI's will hear the words "Envoy" and then go apply at Envoy and get hired.

You can make all of the reasoned arguments about pay, QOL, long-term prospects, etc. but those arguments do not resonate with the vast majority of 23-24 year olds that are flying 172's for pennies and just want to get out of flight instructing. They will pick a regional that has substandard pay, substandard QOL, and in many cases has bases nowhere near where they live necessitating a two-leg commute just because they saw a video on youtube or one of their flight instructors went there. I know people that live in a place with 9 flights to DFW a day that went to Piedmont and commuted two legs to their crappy outstation base because their old flight instructor went there and kept in touch with them and blew smoke up their ass. It defies all logic.

ERAUAV8TR
06-21-2019, 12:08 PM
Yep, never underestimate the ignorance/stupidity of bug-eyed 23-24 year old CFI's looking to go for a regional. They will apply to the first regional they see and accept an offer from the first regional that extends said offer. When you type "regional airline pilot" into the search bar, two of the first five videos are Swayne's videos, and these CFI's will hear the words "Envoy" and then go apply at Envoy and get hired.

You can make all of the reasoned arguments about pay, QOL, long-term prospects, etc. but those arguments do not resonate with the vast majority of 23-24 year olds that are flying 172's for pennies and just want to get out of flight instructing. They will pick a regional that has substandard pay, substandard QOL, and in many cases has bases nowhere near where they live necessitating a two-leg commute just because they saw a video on youtube or one of their flight instructors went there. I know people that live in a place with 9 flights to DFW a day that went to Piedmont and commuted two legs to their crappy outstation base because their old flight instructor went there and kept in touch with them and blew smoke up their ass. It defies all logic.

At least one fo here is getting paid close to what they deserve.

Helij3t
06-21-2019, 12:16 PM
Look everyone, what's your problem. If what he's doing isn't it your favor and you want him to address something else then any of you can pick your cell phones, address the situation and post it too on YT. Stop ****ing in his cup. Times change and every situation is different. His time is now and to some of us he's given us a clear insight of crew scheduling of being on reserve and holding a line. Plus a bit of pay expectation.
If there are issues with management what has he got to do with it? C'mon guys give him a break and let him enjoy his regional life. The more negative you sound towards him the stronger and smarter he gets.
I'll be 1000% willing to fly with him any day and time.
Do you know how proud my dad will be to see me as the first pilot in an airline environment in the family's entire generation?

From shoving snow in MD to lawnmowing in NC+ Louisiana and FL: All in order to pay for flight training including time 1.5k hours and tell me once if Envoy offers me a job I'll walk away. (Of which I was offered, gladly accepted and signed over a year ago)

Let's all with real here and nothing personal to anyone here. Sorry if I have but it is what it is I guess.

Cyio
06-21-2019, 12:21 PM
Look everyone, what's your problem. If what he's doing isn't it your favor and you want him to address something else then any of you can pick your cell phones, address the situation and post it too on YT. Stop ****ing in his cup. Times change and every situation is different. His time is now and to some of us he's given us a clear insight of crew scheduling of being on reserve and holding a line. Plus a bit of pay expectation.
If there are issues with management what has he got to do with it? C'mon guys give him a break and let him enjoy his regional life. The more negative you sound towards him the stronger and smarter he gets.
I'll be 1000% willing to fly with him any day and time.
Do you know how proud my dad will be to see me as the first pilot in an airline environment in the family's entire generation?

From shoving snow in MD to lawnmowing in NC+ Louisiana and FL: All in order to pay for flight training including time 1.5k hours and tell me once if Envoy offers me a job I'll walk away. (Of which I was offered, gladly accepted and signed over a year ago)

Let's all with real here and nothing personal to anyone here. Sorry if I have but it is what it is I guess.
First off, proofread before you go onto a tangent. Not saying I am perfect but your post was hard to read.

Second, most people could care less about the person, his lifestyle, his personality or his YouTube channel. Good on him for making a name and becoming famous in this small world.

The problem people have is that he is an active Envoy recruiting asset that is encouraging, regardless of him actually saying it, people to come here when we are in the midst of contract negotiations. While his videos are not lies, they certainly dont tell the entire story.

They dont tell the issues with the contract, they dont talk about how CS will break the contract when they see fit, they dont talk about how low our pay has become, they dont talk about our crappy reserve rules, they dont talk about our hostile management and hostile CPO's, etc.

He is a recruiting tool for the company, end of story. If he wasn't useful to them, they wouldn't allow him to do it and that is the problem. He is either supporting the company agenda or he is supporting his fellow ENVOY PILOTS agenda. If you can't see that, well that is your problem and not ours.

Helij3t
06-21-2019, 12:25 PM
First off, proofread before you go onto a tangent. Not saying I am perfect but your post was hard to read.

Second, most people could care less about the person, his lifestyle, his personality or his YouTube channel. Good on him for making a name and becoming famous in this small world.

The problem people have is that he is an active Envoy recruiting asset that is encouraging, regardless of him actually saying it, people to come here when we are in the midst of contract negotiations. While his videos are not lies, they certainly dont tell the entire story.

They dont tell the issues with the contract, they dont talk about how CS will break the contract when they see fit, they dont talk about how low our pay has become, they dont talk about our crappy reserve rules, they dont talk about our hostile management and hostile CPO's, etc.

He is a recruiting tool for the company, end of story. If he wasn't useful to them, they wouldn't allow him to do it. If you can't see that, well that is your problem and not ours.

Thanks for your reply please make a video explaining all this and counter his approach and misleading info out there if that's the case.

MEGAFUPM
06-21-2019, 01:03 PM
Thanks for your reply please make a video explaining all this and counter his approach and misleading info out there if that's the case.

Any social media posts about company operations are now a violation of FM1 and you'll most likey be fired for it. Unless, of course, it's positive.

Firefighterpilo
06-21-2019, 01:51 PM
Look everyone, what's your problem. If what he's doing isn't it your favor and you want him to address something else then any of you can pick your cell phones, address the situation and post it too on YT. Stop ****ing in his cup. Times change and every situation is different. His time is now and to some of us he's given us a clear insight of crew scheduling of being on reserve and holding a line. Plus a bit of pay expectation.
If there are issues with management what has he got to do with it? C'mon guys give him a break and let him enjoy his regional life. The more negative you sound towards him the stronger and smarter he gets.
I'll be 1000% willing to fly with him any day and time.
Do you know how proud my dad will be to see me as the first pilot in an airline environment in the family's entire generation?

From shoving snow in MD to lawnmowing in NC+ Louisiana and FL: All in order to pay for flight training including time 1.5k hours and tell me once if Envoy offers me a job I'll walk away. (Of which I was offered, gladly accepted and signed over a year ago)

Let's all with real here and nothing personal to anyone here. Sorry if I have but it is what it is I guess.

I never said they were good. They might be good for young and future aviators. They’re also good for management, but they are certainly not good for the pilot group no matter if times are good or times are bad.

I’m guessing you’re relatively new in the 121 world. Your “25 million dollar” contract isn’t at the hands of Swayne Martin. It’s at the hands of how many people are showing up for class. It doesn’t matter if you have Jimmy Hoffa and Al Capone in the flesh negotiating for you. If you are still filling classes... you will get jack squat and like it. Swayne Martin is a major influence on how many people show up for class. A lot of people getting into the regionals don’t know that Envoy has some of lowest pay and worst QOL of the industry right now. Sure maybe things are just like they were 2-3 years ago, but the difference is a new hire will have a much better experience at almost any other airline right now. A lot of new hires don’t realize that. A lot of them only know what they hear from recruiters, see advertised on Envoy’s website, and what they see in Swayne’s videos. And I would guess more people see what they think life is like from Swayne than they do from recruiters. He’s a huge influence.

Yep initially his cutesy videos were naive and unrealistic but nominally helpful to newbies and not hurting anyone. No longer the case, currently his management approved recruitment propaganda, is directly working against the MEC and destroying the substantial leverage a lack of applicants produce. His growing influence with so many new pilots means with out any meaningful merit or experience as an aviator, he has become the defacto authority on this industry to many, his intention or not. His large following has provided him a platform to reach many young aviators in a uniquely direct way that when used correctly can be beneficial to all. His followers view and trust him as a reliable source for industry info and believe he is giving an accurate picture. As such he should strive to provide guidance and insight that is balanced, unbiased and not serving a external motive. He owes this to those he “influences” and those already in the industry these things effect. Many in this same thread defend (mostly new young FOs or CFI) defend his videos and say they are helpful and accurate. However more experienced pilots who have been in the industry awhile see them as what they are, recruiting tools that only help management. Unknown or realized by many young viewers, his narrative is greatly biased by his inexperience and commitment to management goals and ideals. To older guys his videos are nothing more then aviation porn exhibiting an inexperienced view point to inexperienced viewers. Although on the surface harmless and entertaining they quickly become quite damaging during negotiations. The blind leading the blind is never good for anyone. His videos lack the truly comprehensive and complete airline info many newbies believe they are receiving. Would you want your doctor prescribing meds from a company they own? Of course not, it’s a conflict of loyalty between patient health and Dr wallet. His videos, unknown to most viewers actually hurt newbies by showing management approved content only and omitting the important but real negative components his viewers deserve . This career is very dynamic and unique and new pilots must be appropriately informed of all aspects not just management approved. Some viewers will be blindsided by all the important info he leaves out in an attempt to pacify management. Aviation can bring so many different career opportunities and expectations that info like his is priceless when properly conveyed. As demonstrated in this thread some young pilots don’t know what they don’t know, and lack the meaningful industry experience to see a problem and state as such on this thread.

No-one has produced an actual counter argument to show how his videos are helping and not hurting pilots. They rely on character attacks calling people salty or jealous if they articulate how his videos are actually hurting pilots.

Cyio
06-21-2019, 02:00 PM
Thanks for your reply please make a video explaining all this and counter his approach and misleading info out there if that's the case.

I’m not allowed too. You have to have Envoys blessing else risk a termination for social media. Hence proving my point even more.

He and he alone is allowed to make those videos.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 02:11 PM
I’m not allowed too. You have to have Envoys blessing else risk a termination for social media. Hence proving my point even more.

He and he alone is allowed to make those videos.Why should Envoy, or any other business, trust you to represent them in front of the public after the way you guys have acted on this public thread?

Helij3t
06-21-2019, 02:16 PM
Honestly I totally agree with everyone. If He's acting on the blessing of Management to produce their line of words for recruitment purposes, then my opinion, I suggest he should be disregarded and may also wish a senior pilot pull him to the side and have a Father and Son talk. Because in the long run, it's going to hurt all of us.

Thanks to everyone and really appreciate the input. I was wrong earlier and I accept my error in misjudgment.

Cyio
06-21-2019, 02:30 PM
Why should Envoy, or any other business, trust you to represent them in front of the public after the way you guys have acted on this public thread?

So you agree that he is an arm of the envoy managment recruiting team?

pitchattitude
06-21-2019, 02:39 PM
I’m not allowed too. You have to have Envoys blessing else risk a termination for social media. Hence proving my point even more.

He and he alone is allowed to make those videos.
This times 2499, because that is about the number of other Envoy pilots that would be targeted for termination if they did try and present the rest of the story on any kind of social media that they were identifiable on.

Cyio
06-21-2019, 02:44 PM
This times 2499, because that is about the number of other Envoy pilots that would be targeted for termination if they did try and present the rest of the story on any kind of social media that they were identifiable on.

One literally was just terminated for it.

pitchattitude
06-21-2019, 02:52 PM
One literally was just terminated for it.
That wasn’t what the company said!

But yes, that is the entire point!!

Tyrion
06-21-2019, 04:14 PM
Look everyone, what's your problem. If what he's doing isn't it your favor and you want him to address something else then any of you can pick your cell phones, address the situation and post it too on YT.

Thanks again for proving our point about how uninformed Swayne and his supporters truly are. This forum is the best place to get the truth out to potential new hires before they come here and realize that they made a mistake. We have a margin of safety to tell the truth because we can post anonymously, but we risk being doxxed and fired.

Good for you putting in the work to become qualified. Now do yourself and the rest of us a favor and refrain from applying to the places that are keeping pay low and QOL bad.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 04:42 PM
So you agree that he is an arm of the envoy managment recruiting team?So you agree that many posts made by pilots on this thread are insensitive and unprofessional, which helps to justify Envoy's decision not trust any of you to represent their company on any public social media platforms?

Cyio
06-21-2019, 04:46 PM
So you agree that many posts made by pilots on this thread are insensitive and unprofessional, which helps to justify Envoy's decision not trust any of you to represent their company on any public social media platforms?
Well this is getting us nowhere. They don’t trust us because unlike Swayne we would actually tell the truth about what is really going on here, not some white washed version of life on reserve.

You believe what you believe and I will believe what I believe. I haven’t said a single insensitive thing about this kid so you can take that argument elsewhere. I have clearly stated my opinion and supported it.

Any action at this point that helps the company or shows them in a positive light is a direct affront to the current pilot group and the union.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 04:50 PM
Well this is getting us nowhere.

You believe what you believe and I will believe what I believe. I haven’t said a single insensitive thing about this kid so you can take that argument elsewhere. I have clearly stated my opinion and supported it.Show me where I said "Cyio said insensitive things". You pulled that out of nowhere.

Many people here have freely stated their opinions, and that's part of why Envoy shouldn't trust them. Any professional pilot should understand why certain things can't be said in public.

Cyio
06-21-2019, 04:52 PM
Show me where I said "Cyio said insensitive things". You pulled that out of nowhere.

Many people here have freely stated their opinions, and that's part of why Envoy shouldn't trust them. Any professional pilot should understand why certain things can't be said in public.

I was stating that I haven’t made any comments because it was apparent you were trying to use “insensitive “ comments as a reason why the company shouldn’t trust us. If I haven’t made any then they should trust me by your logic.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 04:55 PM
I was stating that I haven’t made any comments because it was apparent you were trying to use “insensitive “ comments as a reason why the company shouldn’t trust us. If I haven’t made any then they should trust me by your logic.Perhaps so, but many of your coworkers have. After what I've seen here, they would be crazy to allow any of you to represent them in public without their expressed approval.

pitchattitude
06-21-2019, 04:55 PM
So you agree that many posts made by pilots on this thread are insensitive and unprofessional, which helps to justify Envoy's decision not trust any of you to represent their company on any public social media platforms?
There have clearly been some posts that have been aimed personally at Swayne and his lifestyle and whether you agree or disagree either side of the subject, they have no place on this forum and thus have no bearing on this issue.

Doesn’t change all the valid arguments about why his videos need to stop until the pay issue is addressed.

Firefighterpilo
06-21-2019, 05:01 PM
Please pump the brakes on the whole “insensitivity” and everything hurts my feelings defense. A lot of us come here to get away from the overly politically correct crowd. Just because the social justice warriors and their virtual signaling are the loudest voice in the room doesn’t make them the most correct. Just because someone doesn’t agree with what is said or losing an argument, doesn’t make it insensitive, racist or what ever term of endearment is thrown out. Do they not teach about sticks and stones in school anymore. Contrary to what some may think words can not actually hurt someone if you don’t let it. This forum is not a “safe place” it’s a place to talk shop with other professionals and maybe crack a smile or two. Although I disagree with a lot of peoples extreme opinions or rude comments on different topics. I still respect their right to say it and just choose to not get personally offended. It’s easy everyone should try it!

poopplop
06-21-2019, 05:07 PM
There have clearly been some posts that have been aimed personally at Swayne and his lifestyle and whether you agree or disagree either side of the subject, they have no place on this forum and thus have no bearing on this issue.Thank you. Please explain this to Cyio.

Doesn’t change all the valid arguments about why his videos need to stop until the pay issue is addressed.Valid arguments or not, there is a better way to handle the issue than to personally attack someone online, and in public. Not to mention thousands of fellow crew members who happen to live a different lifestyle that some of you called "disgusting". Tell me again why Envoy should trust their name to its pilots on social media?

poopplop
06-21-2019, 05:09 PM
Please pump the brakes on the whole “insensitivity” and everything hurts my feelings defense. A lot of us come here to get away from the overly politically correct crowd. Just because the social justice warriors and their virtual signaling are the loudest voice in the room doesn’t make them the most correct. Just because someone doesn’t agree with what is said or losing an argument, doesn’t make it insensitive, racist or what ever term of endearment is thrown out. Do they not teach about sticks and stones in school anymore. Contrary to what some may think words can not actually hurt someone if you don’t let it. This forum is not a “safe place” it’s a place to talk shop with other professionals and maybe crack a smile or two.You're behind the conversation. Or maybe you can explain to me how Envoy would use this post to find a way to trust its pilots to represent them on social media.
An American flag defaced to express sodomy has no place in a professional environment.

cbrpilot
06-21-2019, 05:16 PM
You're behind the conversation. Or maybe you can explain to me how Envoy would use this post to find a way to trust its pilots to represent them on social media.

I'll allow anyone in my jumpseat. I'm 3 years into the 121 world. However, I have no place in my life for bigotry, racism or sexism. Check your attitude at the door gents.

Firefighterpilo
06-21-2019, 05:16 PM
You're behind the conversation. Or maybe you can explain to me how Envoy would use this post to find a way to trust its pilots to represent them on social media.

I am in agreement with you that a lot stuff posted on here is unprofessional. That is kinda what makes this place. You can articulate how you feel on different subject matter with out worrying about effecting your career and livelihood. I think you are over reaching a bit, comparing how someone communicates on here somehow related to how professional they perform their job. Hell the leader of the free world acts less then presidential on twitter everyday. I would hope and assume that most on here don’t act the same at work, in the cockpit or on the jumpseat. That is kinda the premise of an anonymous forum isn’t it?

poopplop
06-21-2019, 05:20 PM
I am in agreement with you that a lot stuff posted on here is unprofessional. That is kinda what makes this place. You can articulate how you feel on different subject matter with out worrying about effecting your career and livelihood. I think you are over reaching a bit, comparing how someone communicates on here somehow related to how professional they perform their job. Hell the leader of the free world acts less then presidential on twitter everyday.And I think you are under-reaching. We are talking about business, not the sentiments of pilots escaping to the non-PC world to post their ugliness. Envoy doesn't need to care about why you guys are posting this crap here. It's an unnecessary risk to allow people who voice these types of opinions anywhere to represent their brand to the public. Put yourself in their shoes.

pitchattitude
06-21-2019, 05:28 PM
Thank you. Please explain this to Cyio.

Valid arguments or not, there is a better way to handle the issue than to personally attack someone online, and in public. Not to mention thousands of fellow crew members who happen to live a different lifestyle that some of you called "disgusting". Tell me again why Envoy should trust their name to its pilots on social media?

I’m not saying Swayne would, but I have seen many instances throughout my life where people were talked to in a professional manner and told that something they were doing was unprofessional or harmful to their career or others and were subsequently reprimanded or targeted as being biased for race/sex/religion/whatever. None have a legitimate bearing on any argument that is not about that those particular subjects.

Everyone should be free to make their arguments for or against subjects relating to, in this case, the company and its actions in the pay issue.

Envoy would never allow that and has targeted people in the past. Doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not someone says “Yo mamma is a @$&^#” or you’re a whatever.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 05:38 PM
I’m not saying Swayne would, but I have seen many instances throughout my life where people were talked to in a professional manner and told that something they were doing was unprofessional or harmful to their career or others and were subsequently reprimanded or targeted as being biased for race/sex/religion/whatever. None have a legitimate bearing on any argument that is not about that those particular subjects.Too late, you can't make that argument here. The reason is these posts below. Your colleagues have already made it about "those particular subjects".
An American flag defaced to express sodomy has no place in a professional environment.
disgusting
Sometimes you just don't have to say anything...

pitchattitude
06-21-2019, 05:43 PM
Too late, you can't make that argument here. The reason is these posts below. Your colleagues have already made it about "those particular subjects".
So a few individuals completely negate a valid argument?

You are really reaching. You are doing the same thing and trying to invalidate the person instead of the point being made.

That pretty much means there are NEVER any valid arguments for ANYTHING because there are ALMOST always a few crackpots that are outliers on the bell curve.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 05:46 PM
So a few individuals completely negate a valid argument?

You are really reaching.

That pretty much means there are NEVER any valid arguments for ANYTHING because there are ALMOST always a few crackpots that are outliers on the bell curve.I've only told you why the "instances you've seen throughout your life" don't apply to this conversation. The simple fact is, the conversation here has been less than professional, and attacks were made based on sex/religion/race/whatever. So, the group as a whole can't pretend to be martyrs and say that they've communicated their opinions about this person in a professional manner only to be attacked. What other argument are you trying to make?

Firefighterpilo
06-21-2019, 05:58 PM
The above sentiments I strongly disagree with. However they are people stating their opinions and beliefs on certain matters and I can’t control how others say it or their right to say it. All I can control is how I react to it. My kids happen to be a different race then their mother and I. We spend a lot of energy preparing them for how cruel the real world can be and they can’t control others thoughts and actions only how they decide to react to it. I can’t teach my kids to ignore other prejudices if I get offended or yell racist every time I feel some one said something I perceive as “insensitive “. Spewing words no matter how hurtful can’t harm others only actions and reactions can. Although I do not agree with them. Their comments are far from hate speech. You are strongly virtual signaling with your constant attempt to make everything about someone’s sexuality. You must be young, I realize in your belief everyone is a victim but I can assure you as your get older you grown to tired to always be offended by everything. That is a young mans game. This thread doesn’t have to be professional that’s the point of the forum. You nor I have any control on how people comment. None of this invalidates the loads of reason based arguments present here.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 06:06 PM
The above sentiments I strongly disagree with. However they are people stating their opinions and beliefs on certain matters and I can’t control how others say it or their right to say it. All I can control is how I react to it. My kids happen to be a different race then their mother and I. We spend a lot of energy preparing them for how cruel the real world can be and they can’t control others thoughts and actions only how they decide to react to it. I can’t teach my kids to ignore other prejudices if I get offended or yell racist every time I feel some one said something I perceive as “insensitive “. Spewing words no matter how hurtful can’t harm others only actions and reactions can. Although I do not agree with them. Their comments are far from hate speech. You are strongly virtual signaling with your constant attempt to make everything about someone’s sexuality. You must be young, I realize in your belief everyone is a victim but I can assure you as your get older you grown to tired to always be offended by everything. That is a young mans game. This thread doesn’t have to be professional that’s the point of the forum. You nor I have any control on how people comment. None of this invalidates the loads of reason based arguments present here.What arguments am I attacking exactly? As far as I can remember, I have only shown why Envoy is justified in not trusting Envoy pilots to represent their brand in public media. We are not talking about raising your kids. We are talking about business. Tell me why it would make business sense for Envoy to trust the same pilots who made the bigoted posts here to represent their company brand?

uavking
06-21-2019, 06:16 PM
I’m not allowed too. You have to have Envoys blessing else risk a termination for social media. Hence proving my point even more.

He and he alone is allowed to make those videos.

This^^

From day one, his videos have had shots that would get anyone else at this company at best chewed out by the CPO, or terminated. His videos have the stamp of recruiting material all over them.

As I said in an earlier post, this sort of social media influencer material is a gold mine for corporations these days. To say that these videos are simply an innocuous side project is to willfully ignore the sales value that this delivers to the company at the detriment of this pilot group.

uavking
06-21-2019, 06:19 PM
I'll allow anyone in my jumpseat. I'm 3 years into the 121 world. However, I have no place in my life for bigotry, racism or sexism. Check your attitude at the door gents.

Inclusivity is great, but hopefully that doesn't include scabs, et al.

rld1k
06-21-2019, 06:25 PM
What arguments am I attacking exactly? As far as I can remember, I have only shown why Envoy is justified in not trusting Envoy pilots to represent their brand in public media. We are not talking about raising your kids. We are talking about business. Tell me why it would make business sense for Envoy to trust the same pilots who made the bigoted posts here to represent their company brand?

I think I can speak for everyone when I say wth are you talking about? No one is asking to represent envoy on social media. You're just willfully ignoring any points made.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 06:34 PM
I think I can speak for everyone when I say wth are you talking about? No one is asking to represent envoy on social media. You're just willfully ignoring any points made.You can't speak for everyone, because you are just willfully ignoring the conversation.
I’m not allowed too. You have to have Envoys blessing else risk a termination for social media. Hence proving my point even more.

He and he alone is allowed to make those videos.This^^

From day one, his videos have had shots that would get anyone else at this company at best chewed out by the CPO, or terminated.There are people here complaining that they can't make social media posts using Envoy's brand, yet won't acknowledge that no company would want to be represented by the public posts some of you guys have actually been making.

Firefighterpilo
06-21-2019, 07:01 PM
You can't speak for everyone, because you are just willfully ignoring the conversation.
There are people here complaining that they can't make social media posts using Envoy's brand, yet won't acknowledge that no company would want to be represented by the public posts some of you guys have actually been making.

I am not trying to be rude but I have to be blunt. You are missing the forest for the trees. No one here has said that they represent envoy on social media. In fact they are claiming the opposite. They are saying because they would tell things how they really are and not what management portrays, Envoy has a lot to lose if all the potential prospects knew how envoy really treated pilots not the white wash version Swayne portrays. No one here I can assure you has any desire to represent envoy on social media. Pilot here have to gripes with what Swayne is doing. The first is he is using his online following to further managements agenda and therefore hurt his fellow pilots. Second he is low time young guy with little experience and rather most of us like it not he is representing all of us to the masses who don’t know better. .

poopplop
06-21-2019, 07:28 PM
I am not trying to be rude but I have to be blunt. You are missing the forest for the trees. No one here has said that they represent envoy on social media. In fact they are claiming the opposite. They are saying because they would tell things how they really are and not what management portrays, Envoy has a lot to lose if all the potential prospects knew how envoy really treated pilots not the white wash version Swayne portrays. No one here I can assure you has any desire to represent envoy on social media. Pilot here have to gripes with what Swayne is doing. The first is he is using his online following to further managements agenda and therefore hurt his fellow pilots. Second he is low time young guy with little experience and rather most of us like it not he is representing all of us to the masses who don’t know better. .I am not even discussing whether or not pilots should or shouldn't dislike the videos. My statements have been simple. I have started by saying that personally attacking people anonymously and in public is unprofessional, not to mention cowardly. The fact that anyone's sexuality has been brought into this thread shows just how embarrassing the conduct has been so far. Do you disagree?

Then, I responded to posts that attacked someone for having company permission to use their brand in social media, while they don't have that same permission. I challenged you to put yourself in Envoy's shoes and understand what a financial risk it would be to allow their brand to be represented by a group of people who have no problem publicly calling people "disgusting" because of their sexual preference. You are not anonymous. Envoy management knows you are Envoy pilots and can read these posts along with the general public. Why should they trust anyone here with their brand without vetting them first? There shouldn't be any complaints here about being forbidden from representing Envoy in social media, because there is proof here that Envoy pilots at large can't be trusted.

Finally, I understand how it looks that Envoy specifically allows certain posts that don't portray it in a negative light, and how a logo can be used as subliminal advertising even without direct "recruiting". If you disagree with the videos and/or their timing, there are certain channels to be used to have your concerns addressed professionally. I wonder how many of you have talked to your reps, or to the person himself, before making personal attacks here from behind your screen name...?

Thedude86
06-21-2019, 07:43 PM
It’s hard to listen to somebody talking about being professional when their username is poop plop. But I digress...

I’ll agree that some of the comments on here are uncalled for, but realistically they only represent about 0.0001% of this thread and you’re making it seem like it’s a majority and a reason why the argument against Swayne making videos has no merit.

Your argument gives the impression that a group of 2,499 scientists could find a cure for cancer but if 3 of them made a bigoted remark you would dismiss the group as a whole and wait another 100 years for someone else to find a cure.

Quit diverting attention and help your pilot group. Pay and QOL should be your number one priority right now.... not something 0.0001% of your coworkers have said.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 07:47 PM
It’s hard to listen to somebody talking about being professional when their username is poop plop. But I digress...

I’ll agree that some of the comments on here are uncalled for, but realistically they only represent about 0.0001% of this thread and you’re making it seem like it’s a majority and a reason why the argument against Swayne making videos has no merit.

Your argument gives the impression that a group of 2,499 scientists could find a cure for cancer but if 3 of them made a bigoted remark you would dismiss the group as a whole and wait another 100 years for someone else to find a cure.A guy who calls himself Thedude86 says my screen name is not legitimate enough? You only prove my point.

And again, whether or not the company should trust its pilots at large on social media has no bearing on any arguments as to whether or not anyone should approve or disapprove of the videos. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.

Thedude86
06-21-2019, 07:51 PM
A guy who calls himself Thedude86 says my screen name is not legitimate enough? You only prove my point.

And again, whether or not the company should trust its pilots at large on social media has no bearing on any arguments as to whether or not anyone should approve or disapprove of the videos. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.

I never made any arguments about being professional. That’s all on you.

And obviously the company wouldn’t trust anyone else because they know they would tell it like it is. No one would show up for class. “I don’t know why that’s so hard for you to understand.”

Firefighterpilo
06-21-2019, 07:54 PM
I am not even discussing whether or not pilots should or shouldn't dislike the videos. My statements have been simple. I have started by saying that personally attacking people anonymously and in public is unprofessional, not to mention cowardly. The fact that anyone's sexuality has been brought into this thread shows just how embarrassing the conduct has been so far. Do you disagree?

Then, I responded to posts that attacked someone for having company permission to use their brand in social media, while they don't have that same permission. I challenged you to put yourself in Envoy's shoes and understand what a financial risk it would be to allow their brand to be represented by a group of people who have no problem publicly calling people "disgusting" because of their sexual preference. You are not anonymous. Envoy management knows you are Envoy pilots and can read these posts along with the general public. Why should they trust anyone here with their brand without vetting them first? There shouldn't be any complaints here about being forbidden from representing Envoy in social media, because there is proof here that Envoy pilots at large can't be trusted.

Finally, I understand how it looks that Envoy specifically allows certain posts that don't portray it in a negative light, and how a logo can be used as subliminal advertising even without direct "recruiting". If you disagree with the videos and/or their timing, there are certain channels to be used to have your concerns addressed professionally. I wonder how many of you have talked to your reps, or to the person himself, before making personal attacks here from behind your screen name...?

Last post for the night. Do you realize how good you divert conversations? You my friend are a professional. None of the points you keep spouting, anyone here is debating. It is like if we are arguing the color of a tree and you keep interjecting the average weight of a bark beetle. They are not related points nor important to the argument. Nowhere has anyone argued your above points. You are clearly “triggered” and I am sleepy. At this point in life I honestly don’t care that his videos hurt his fellow pilots it has zero effect on me. I DID want to share with the new pilots in the industry reasons why Swayn’s Videos are no longer harmless, and directly effecting the work conditions at Envoy. What the new pilots do with my humble opinion is of no consequence to me. They can throw it in the trash if they choose, but is very important they hear it so they can form their own informed opinion on the matter. Either way I have a family to attend to. I hope you are nothing but successful and accomplished in your chosen profession. Take a few deep breaths you will learn life is to short to always tie you emotions up in an argument.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 07:55 PM
I never made any arguments about being professional. That’s all on you.

And obviously the company wouldn’t trust anyone else because they know they would tell it like it is. No one would show up for class. “I don’t know why that’s so hard for you to understand.”When did I say you made an argument about being professional?

And again, "telling it like it is" isn't always in the interest of the business, especially in this business. It's their business prerogative to limit the use of their brand. Feel free to keep whining about it.

Thedude86
06-21-2019, 08:00 PM
When did I say you made an argument about being professional?

And again, "telling it like it is" isn't always in the interest of the business, especially in this business. It's their business prerogative to limit the use of their brand. Feel free to keep whining about it.

You claimed I was saying your argument wasn’t legitimate. I never said legitimate. I said professional. Like the previous poster said, “you’re a professional diverter”.

No one is arguing what the company’s prerogative is. Everyone on here is basically saying the same thing... Swayne’s videos are not helping the pilot group.

Inclined plane
06-21-2019, 08:01 PM
Then, I responded to posts that attacked someone for having company permission to use their brand in social media, while they don't have that same permission. I challenged you to put yourself in Envoy's shoes and understand what a financial risk it would be to allow their brand to be represented by a group of people who have no problem publicly calling people "disgusting" because of their sexual preference. You are not anonymous. Envoy management knows you are Envoy pilots and can read these posts along with the general public. Why should they trust anyone here with their brand without vetting them first?


Look, no one is wanting to make YouTube videos representing the company besides Swayne. You seem to to misunderstand that fact.

Folks were only complaining about being expressly told (and made to complete online training) about not being able to post any sort of pics or videos while in uniform on any social media. You know, like posting selfies on Facebook.

The original annoyance with Swayne however, was that only a few weeks after being told via HI6 that no one may post any pics or videos in uniform or on company property, on any social media, a newhire starting basic Indoc goes and starts posting company sponsored videos.

Even though the videos are company sponsored, they were a direct contradiction of what the company just said no one was allowed to do. They offered no explanation to the pilot group, and instead double downed on their deadline for all to complete the mandatory social media abstinence training.

This does not mean that Pilots here actually wanted to make videos like Swayne, (aside from perhaps Aviator Chavez) so your plea to understand the company’s “financial risk” “to allow their brand to be represented” by other envoy Pilots besides Swayne, is way off the mark. No one is wanting to. No one is bitter about that. No one cares to. No one can believe you are trying to make a point about that, at least I can’t.

All anyone is currently annoyed about, is that he may potentially be helping management and may be helping recruiting during critical pay negotiations when the company is on record saying healthy class sizes are directly negating the need to increase pay.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

poopplop
06-21-2019, 08:04 PM
You are a professional diverter. None of the points you keep spouting anyone here is debating. It like if we are arguing the color of a tree and you keep interjecting the average weight of a bark beetle. They are not related points nor important to the argument. Nowhere has anyone argued your above points.Below are your first responses to my comments. Literally the only conversation I've had with you, Firefiterpilo, was regarding the unprofessional conduct on this thread. So, to suddenly pretend we haven't been having this conversation simply because you don't like your own answers to my questions makes you seem somewhat disingenuous.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2841066-post421.html
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2841074-post425.html
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2841112-post431.html

Thedude86
06-21-2019, 08:05 PM
Even if someone did want to and was allowed to make a realistic video about life Envoy... there might be 14 people that see it. Swayne has had years and years to build his audience.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 08:10 PM
You claimed I was saying your argument wasn’t legitimate. I never said legitimate. I said professional. Like the previous poster said, “you’re a professional diverter”.

No one is arguing what the company’s prerogative is. Everyone on here is basically saying the same thing... Swayne’s videos are not helping the pilot group.Now you're confused. When I said legitimate, I was talking about my screen name, not whatever argument I was making. Try to keep up!

For the 10th time, what you think about the videos is your rightful opinion and doesn't bother me at all. But there are ways to voice that opinion without making yourself and your colleagues look bigoted and unprofessional. And before you start, I'm not talking about you specifically.

Thedude86
06-21-2019, 08:16 PM
Now you're confused. When I said legitimate, I was talking about my screen name, not whatever argument I was making. Try to keep up!

For the 10th time, what you think about the videos is your rightful opinion and doesn't bother me at all. But there are ways to voice that opinion without making yourself and your colleagues look bigoted and unprofessional.

Well then you’re changing my words. I said it’s hard to listen to an argument about being professional when your name is poop plop.

I not once made any comments that would make me or anyone else look bigoted. If anything I said they were uncalled for.

Would you rather talk about stupid comments that 3 people made on an anonymous forum or would you rather talk about how to put an extra 20k in your pocket every year? Unless you’re management....

poopplop
06-21-2019, 08:31 PM
For the 10th time, what you think about the videos is your rightful opinion and doesn't bother me at all. But there are ways to voice that opinion without making yourself and your colleagues look bigoted and unprofessional. And before you start, I'm not talking about you specifically.I not once made any comments that would make me or anyone else look bigoted. If anything I said they were uncalled for. ^I guess I added this part too late..Would you rather talk about stupid comments that 3 people made on an anonymous forum or would you rather talk about how to put an extra 20k in your pocket every year? Unless you’re management....Of course. Let's ignore all the terrible personal attacks made in this thread since it's the only way anyone here can be taken seriously. So, let's talk about it. Have you made any communications to your reps regarding these videos? Or is anonymous online b**ching the only plan?

Thedude86
06-21-2019, 08:41 PM
^I guess I added this part too late..Of course. Let's ignore all the terrible personal attacks made in this thread since it's the only way anyone here can be taken seriously. So, let's talk about it. Have you made any communications to your reps regarding these videos? Or is anonymous online b**ching the only plan?

You can call people out for stupid comments, but don’t make it the main point of a much different and bigger problem. It’s 3 people. Go outside. Live a little. People made fun of me all the time in high school. I moved on.

And I’m not at Envoy. I’m
not sure if you are or you’re just keyboard warrior, but if you are at Envoy then it sounds like I care more about their pilot group than you do.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 08:41 PM
Look, no one is wanting to make YouTube videos representing the company besides Swayne. You seem to to misunderstand that fact.

Folks were only complaining about being expressly told (and made to complete online training) about not being able to post any sort of pics or videos while in uniform on any social media. You know, like posting selfies on Facebook.

The original annoyance with Swayne however, was that only a few weeks after being told via HI6 that no one may post any pics or videos in uniform or on company property, on any social media, a newhire starting basic Indoc goes and starts posting company sponsored videos.

Even though the videos are company sponsored, they were a direct contradiction of what the company just said no one was allowed to do. They offered no explanation to the pilot group, and instead double downed on their deadline for all to complete the mandatory social media abstinence training.

This does not mean that Pilots here actually wanted to make videos like Swayne, (aside from perhaps Aviator Chavez) so your plea to understand the company’s “financial risk” “to allow their brand to be represented” by other envoy Pilots besides Swayne, is way off the mark. No one is wanting to. No one is bitter about that. No one cares to. No one can believe you are trying to make a point about that, at least I can’t.

All anyone is currently annoyed about, is that he may potentially be helping management and may be helping recruiting during critical pay negotiations when the company is on record saying healthy class sizes are directly negating the need to increase pay.

Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkForgive me, but all I've gathered from this post is that despite showing proof, you think I'm wrong about people being upset about someone's special permission to post on social media. Yet you've just described the history of Envoy pilots being annoyed with someone's special permission to post on social media. Btw, not once did I say people want to post videos like Swayne. Don't put words in my mouth.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of "representing". That doesn't necessarily mean "on behalf of", or in a positive light. Envoy might be worried about its pilots representing (depicting) their brand in a bad way, even if not on purpose.

SoFloFlyer
06-21-2019, 08:44 PM
[QUOTE=Firefighterpilo;2840597]

I appreciate everyone’s input and opinion on here the debates help me have a robust understanding of different view points. I am in no way trying to appear salty i guess I did a bad job but was merely trying to help illustrate where some opinions on this matter may come from. I am only trying to show the possible thought process some may have. I honestly do not care one way or another. I genuinely love seeing people passionate about flying and excited about reaching their goals one reason I still instruct on occasion. I am merely trying to show you the negative reality that you could, but hopefully not, encounter in your long quest of this great career. This way some of you can do better maintaining an appropriate level of optimism then did. I learned the hard way that just wanting and expecting things to go a certain way, seldom ensures it does.

No high horse at all I am just providing a more realistic view of the industry. I absolutely did accept a job at that pay in the early 2000s. My airline management at that time was using bullet points identical to what Envoy recruiters, and these types of youtube videos are preaching to pilot prospects today. I honestly believe management has used the same recruiting propaganda for 40 years to get butts in seats and then recycle them from airline to airline. Back then I was promised fast movement, flow and upgrade in under 2 years with some new FOs holding lines right off IOE. None of which came to fruition in large part to outside forces that no one predicted or expected at the time. The era before the lost decade and the current climate are eerily similar in breadth prediction. In this industry things can and usually do change very rapid and unpredictability.

I was fortunate enough to have the majority of my family in the airline industry for decades going back to when the dc-3 was still doing the heavy lifting. The pilots in my immediate family have flown for PanAm, Eastern, Delta, United and Braniff and all have seen but never forecasted major life altering changes over the years. My grandfather was with Eastern at the peak in the 70s and also during the low of Frank Lorenzo era. He learned a very valuable and hard fought lesson watching scabs and management wipsaws ruin his beloved airline. After enduring the free fall the once stable Eastern Pilots faced while watching their executives make millions left a bad taste in his mouth. He made it a point for me to understand how things were, how they are and how fast they can change. Because of this mentorship by family and friends I felt like I had a grasp on the industries history and how managements predatory tactics with help from the RLA has shape the profession. At the time I felt I had a knowledgable solid foundation of what I could expect and most likely experience in my career based off the same info that is being preached to today’s new pilots. Turns out I was dead wrong and the perfect storm of bad events called “the lost decade” came to fruition. As heart breaking as it was I learned some great life lessons during this time I cherish.

As you so kindly pointed out I accepted the job thinking I knew what I was in for and how nothing would slow down this industry. Even though I tried to maintain reasonable expectations during that particular period of time, just like today, things were humming along and the outlook was rosy. I figured conservatively in that hiring environment I would be at a major 3-4 years after starting regional ioe. But when i was in my 6th year with the regional and still just an FO stuck on reserve with no end in sight (barely missing the dreaded furlough most others endured)I decided to re-evaluate life and make some hard decisions. Myself and many peers in the same boat made the tough choice of changing careers. Therefore voting with our feet.

I have been blessed during all this I now am fortunate to have an amazing career I love where daily I get to make positive and lasting changes in my community that leaves me fulfilled not just doing volunteer work to check a box. I am thankful my second profession provided me with many things flying never did including amazing pay, schedules, pensions, respect in the community, transferable skills and most importantly rock solid job stability. These reasons for me make going back to flying unrealistic at this stage. Fortunately I now have the time and disposable income to fly a few times a week to fulfill my aviation passion.

I did not intend to come across as preaching or in any way condescending. I merely was trying to provide some context about why some of his co workers might have issues with his videos and why these videos can rub some aviators the wrong way. This, just like it was when I was fresh out of college, is a great time to be a pilot. I truly hope this new generation of pilots will not experience the hardship that myself and those before me have experienced. But if history is any lesson pilots should hope for the best and plan on the worse. Careers can be similar to stocks you want to buy low and sale high. I am scared that rookies getting in right now maybe “buying” high and soon to be sold low.

The industry has changed course and been heading up but the top of a hill is usually followed with a steep and unexpected drop. Never forget that. Most of my college friends and colleagues are now on at the majors bidding senior FOs or junior captains. As seen on this thread there are still thousands of qualified experienced pilots on the sidelines waiting for the right changes to make flying viable and economically feasible career for them as daily more return to the cockpit. Myself, if I could make it work financially there are days I would love to go back to the airlines but alas I will wait till I can retire at 50 and then see where the cards fall. Luckily when I get the pilot bug my wife is quick to ground me and remind me how quickly aviation can go bad and how miserable it can be sometimes. More so with family and mortgages added in the mix.

I don’t mind his videos and see them as well produced and informative but I always try to listen to and understand both sides of an argument before forming any belief or opinion on the matter. Sorry about this long diatribe and tangents. In short Envoy and all pilots should always want there to be a shortage of prospects waiting in the pipe. It is one of the main forces that drives the current trend of salary and QOL improvements. Pilot shortages are great for pilots and bad for management. Low pay and bad contracts, the supply dwindles and flights cancel, pilots leave the field for more lucrative careers. Pool then dries up so management must now improve pilot salaries and benefits to attract qualified pilots. The smaller the pool of pilots the harder management must work to improve salaries and QOL to attract pilots away from their competitors. Conversely a large pool allows management to cut and wipesaw pilots against each other till they gut the elure of the profession so much guys leave, the pool shrinks, wash and repeat the cycles of the airline industry the last 70 years. In my experience as long as pilots keep showing up for class (a large pool) management sees no reason to improve wages. If tomorrow envoy stopped filling the training classes (small supply, large demand) it would make you head spin how fast management can find money to increase wages and QOL of their pilot group. One could make an argument that these videos don’t help increase Envoys hiring pool (Large supply)they may not hurt but the videos are definitely not helping the MEC and ALPA with the negotiation leverage that empty classes provide. At its worse and not my opinion one could argue, these videos can be construed as misleading management propaganda that paints a inaccurate or incomplete picture of the career compared to what many have experienced. IE serving the interest of management over labor. That coupled with with the whole society stigma many over 35 have against “social media influencers” clearly can and have created a unwarranted target that frustrated pilots to vent about.

I genuinely love this board and all the different types of personalities, prospective and experience that everyone brings. Fly safe!

Now this was a good interesting read. Thank you for the post!

poopplop
06-21-2019, 08:46 PM
You can call people out for stupid comments, but don’t make it the main point of a much different and bigger problem. It’s 3 people. Go outside. Live a little. People made fun of me all the time in high school. I moved on.Again, we aren't talking about my feelings or your time in high school. We are talking about business. Business decisions and business PR. Your lack of understanding in this subject is a prime example of why I believe Envoy might be justified in limiting pilots and their brand's social media exposure.

I'll ignore the rest of your post..

Inclined plane
06-21-2019, 08:46 PM
Btw, not once did I say people want to post videos like Swayne. Don't put words in my mouth.




Not putting words in your mouth. It’s called inference. BTW, I’m not misunderstanding anything.


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poopplop
06-21-2019, 08:53 PM
Not putting words in your mouth. It’s called inference. BTW, I’m not misunderstanding anything.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou must be, because the conclusions you are arriving at using your inference have all been wrong so far. Literally the first sentence in your last post was completely off base, and I explained why.

Thedude86
06-21-2019, 08:54 PM
Again, we aren't talking about my feelings or your time in high school. We are talking about business. Business decisions and business PR. Your lack of understanding in this subject is a prime example of why I believe Envoy might be justified in limiting pilots and their brand's social media exposure.

I'll ignore the rest of your post..

Dude, that has not been your main argument lol. Again, professional diverter.

And I completely understand business PR. I never said Swayne is bad for business. Quite the opposite actually. Swayne is great for business. Bad for the pilot group.

You remind me of my ex-wife. You hear what you want to hear, interpret it in a totally different way, and change the subject when you realize everyone is making a valid argument.

There are a few other posters on here that are ok with Swayne’s videos, but I don’t have a problem with them because they’re sensible and rationale. You on the other hand are way out in lala land and all over the place and I don’t think anyone on here is taking you seriously.

Inclined plane
06-21-2019, 08:59 PM
You must be, because the conclusions you are arriving at using your inference have all been wrong so far. Literally the first sentence in your last post was completely off base, and I explained why.



I explained the back history because in my opinion, you are so far off base. It was an attempt at root cause analysis (which went over your head). Your arguments are just so flatly off to me, and I have no idea as to where you are deriving them (as others have pointed out as well).

So, I’d say best of luck. Carry on. I literally feel that I’m being trolled at this point. So I’m disengaging. If you’re not trolling, well let’s just agree to disagree.


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Thedude86
06-21-2019, 09:01 PM
I explained the back history because in my opinion, you are so far off base. It was an attempt at root cause analysis (which went over your head). Your arguments are just so flatly off to me, and I have no idea as to where you are deriving them (as others have pointed out as well).

So, I’d say best of luck. Carry on. I literally feel that I’m being trolled at this point. So I’m disengaging. If you’re not trolling, well let’s just agree to disagree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree. Possibly troller. I’m disengaging this poster as well.

poopplop
06-21-2019, 09:02 PM
I explained the back history because in my opinion, you are so far off base. It was an attempt at root cause analysis (which went over your head). Your arguments are just so flatly off to me, and I have no idea as to where you are deriving them (as others have pointed out as well).

So, I’d say best of luck. Carry on. I literally feel that I’m being trolled at this point. So I’m disengaging. If you’re not trolling, well let’s just agree to disagree. Your attempt at root cause analysis was wrong. And I explained why. You didn't like that and now you dismiss me as a troll because you have nothing else to offer. So yes, it would be best for you to disengage. Good evening.

Inclined plane
06-21-2019, 09:04 PM
Your attempt at root cause analysis was wrong. And I explained why. You didn't like that and now you dismiss me as a troll because you have nothing else to offer. So yes, it would be best for you to disengage. Good evening.



Lol. (Cracks beer...chugs)


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poopplop
06-21-2019, 09:08 PM
Dude, that has not been your main argument lol. Again, professional diverter.

And I completely understand business PR. I never said Swayne is bad for business. Quite the opposite actually. Swayne is great for business. Bad for the pilot group.

You remind me of my ex-wife. You hear what you want to hear, interpret it in a totally different way, and change the subject when you realize everyone is making a valid argument.

There are a few other posters on here that are ok with Swayne’s videos, but I don’t have a problem with them because they’re sensible and rationale. You on the other hand are way out in lala land and all over the place and I don’t think anyone on here is taking you seriously.I've only made two simple points. I'll try to spell it out.

1. The conduct in this thread has been marred by a lack of professionalism. So it is understandable that Envoy management would be wary about allowing its pilots represent its brand on social media.

2. The conduct in this thread has been marred by a lack of professionalism. There are more respectable, professional, and effective ways to voice concerns and encourage actions to better the position of the pilot group.

pitchattitude
06-21-2019, 09:21 PM
There is no company in the world that would endorse or even allow anyone they have any control over (employees, contractors, vendors, etc) to post anything negative about the company. Obviously. It is bad business. So the pilot group has little they can do. But I would love the union to buy an add on APC and Swayne’s YouTube video stating the FACTS about Envoy pay and flow. Something that is not represented in Swayne’s videos or Envoy’s adds.

450knotOffice
06-21-2019, 10:58 PM
Look, no one is wanting to make YouTube videos representing the company besides Swayne. You seem to to misunderstand that fact.

Folks were only complaining about being expressly told (and made to complete online training) about not being able to post any sort of pics or videos while in uniform on any social media. You know, like posting selfies on Facebook.

The original annoyance with Swayne however, was that only a few weeks after being told via HI6 that no one may post any pics or videos in uniform or on company property, on any social media, a newhire starting basic Indoc goes and starts posting company sponsored videos.

Even though the videos are company sponsored, they were a direct contradiction of what the company just said no one was allowed to do. They offered no explanation to the pilot group, and instead double downed on their deadline for all to complete the mandatory social media abstinence training.

This does not mean that Pilots here actually wanted to make videos like Swayne, (aside from perhaps Aviator Chavez) so your plea to understand the company’s “financial risk” “to allow their brand to be represented” by other envoy Pilots besides Swayne, is way off the mark. No one is wanting to. No one is bitter about that. No one cares to. No one can believe you are trying to make a point about that, at least I can’t.

All anyone is currently annoyed about, is that he may potentially be helping management and may be helping recruiting during critical pay negotiations when the company is on record saying healthy class sizes are directly negating the need to increase pay.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the most succinct post on this whole thread. As many know, I’ve said basically “hey, lay off the kid” many times. This post changes my opinion somewhat.

So, as some have already said, he should just stop. Fini.

Cyio
06-22-2019, 04:03 AM
I've only made two simple points. I'll try to spell it out.

1. The conduct in this thread has been marred by a lack of professionalism. So it is understandable that Envoy management would be wary about allowing its pilots represent its brand on social media.

2. The conduct in this thread has been marred by a lack of professionalism. There are more respectable, professional, and effective ways to voice concerns and encourage actions to better the position of the pilot group.

This is the common tactic of someone that is trying to change the direction of a disagreement that they can't win into something that they can.

We are not arguing for the right to post videos, you know that so stop pushing the argument. The only reason us posting videos even came up was because you tried to tell us to post counterpoint videos.

The issue is a fellow pilot posting recruitment videos not telling the full story during a time of pretty intense negotiations. You notice how this topic has swelled since the company walked away from the AIP, which also happened to be the same day he posted another video?

Stop trying to change the topic.

poopplop
06-22-2019, 05:14 AM
This is the common tactic of someone that is trying to change the direction of a disagreement that they can't win into something that they can.

We are not arguing for the right to post videos, you know that so stop pushing the argument. The only reason us posting videos even came up was because you tried to tell us to post counterpoint videos.

The issue is a fellow pilot posting recruitment videos not telling the full story during a time of pretty intense negotiations. You notice how this topic has swelled since the company walked away from the AIP, which also happened to be the same day he posted another video?

Stop trying to change the topic.Not once have I made any comments about the videos themselves because AGAIN, I don't mind people having one opinion or the other. I have only made comments about the unprofessional posts on this thread and the counterproductive consequences they might have. You responded to my comments. If you didn't want to talk about that, why did you respond?

Cyio
06-22-2019, 05:29 AM
Not once have I made any comments about the videos themselves because AGAIN, I don't mind people having one opinion or the other. I have only made comments about the unprofessional posts on this thread and the counterproductive consequences they might have. You responded to my comments. If you didn't want to talk about that, why did you respond?

I am going to be done responding to you on this matter. Good luck.

poopplop
06-22-2019, 05:41 AM
I am going to be done responding to you on this matter. Good luck.Very well. But if you can find a post I made that counters what I just said, I will gladly eat my words. Good luck.

SilentLurker
06-22-2019, 06:21 AM
Any action at this point that helps the company or shows them in a positive light is a direct affront to the current pilot group and the union.


I disagree. Wrong approach above. Must stick to the facts without emotions involved. Company & workers bring positive light to the pilot group every day, multiple times various ways. Positive light is positive light & always should be accepted when factual and honest.

Union leadership members are entrusted to handle labor reations publicly, in the media, social media, as needed with legal departments review and input many tjmes. Let them do their job. Employee’s use of social media ”against” most corporations & its brand are both futile & incredibly risky. Use the avenues created to communicate your concerens.

Freedom of speech is limited and has confined areas of applications.

If the company sanctions an influencer to back them publicly, that is a brand ambassador & its within their right to do so. Actions against that person is an action against the brand. Common sense.

Stay off social media the union keeps repeating.

WhipWhitaker
06-22-2019, 08:01 AM
There have clearly been some posts that have been aimed personally at Swayne and his lifestyle and whether you agree or disagree either side of the subject, they have no place on this forum and thus have no bearing on this issue.

He made it about that when he brought that desecrated abomination of an American flag and slung it up in front the company’s plane. Fair game. Professionals leave that sort of thing at home when they come to work.

pitchattitude
06-22-2019, 08:30 AM
He made it about that when he brought that desecrated abomination of an American flag and slung it up in front the company’s plane. Fair game. Professionals leave that sort of thing at home when they come to work.
Agreed. Just as we have agreed that professionals leave those kind of comments behind as well.

This is not about the messenger, but his message about Envoy. BOTH sides of the argument lose credibility when unrelated topics are brought in.

Weekendwarrior2
06-22-2019, 09:20 AM
He made it about that when he brought that desecrated abomination of an American flag and slung it up in front the company’s plane. Fair game. Professionals leave that sort of thing at home when they come to work.


It was a recruiting event during pride month? Not sure what you don’t get about that. Way more professional then the time I walked into a plane with some BS religious propaganda attached to the CA and FO yolks. I could care less what anyone’s views are, but don’t try to spread yours by intentionally leaving stuff behind like that...goes for both sides.

Air Stang 7
06-22-2019, 09:22 AM
It was a recruiting event during pride month? Not sure what you don’t get about that. Way more professional then the time I walked into a plane with some BS religious propaganda attached to the CA and FO yolks. I could care less what anyone’s views are, but don’t try to spread yours by intentionally leaving stuff behind like that...goes for both sides.

What makes one more unprofessional than the other? Both are personal things that don’t belong in the workplace.

Weekendwarrior2
06-22-2019, 09:27 AM
He was at a recruiting event...probably asked to bring it. That flag probably offends a small handful of people while making recruitment look good for most of the young pilots it’s targeting. If someone was leaving little rainbow flags behind every flight then yeah I would agree that it’s unprofessional.

pitchattitude
06-22-2019, 09:30 AM
What makes one more unprofessional than the other? Both are personal things that don’t belong in the workplace.
Exactly. Do what you want on your own time, but don’t bring them to work, or an aviation forum.

henryjj
06-22-2019, 01:31 PM
Swayne just made it clear where he stands on all this.. check out his Instagram or Facebook. Sounds like he’s more on ALPAs side than many thought.

Cyio
06-22-2019, 02:09 PM
Swayne just made it clear where he stands on all this.. check out his Instagram or Facebook. Sounds like he’s more on ALPAs side than many thought.

Didn't see anything on his Instagram about being on ALPA's side. In fact he took about the most neutral stance possible, basically saying he isnt changing anything. Perhaps his FB is different.

wiz5422
06-22-2019, 02:11 PM
Swayne just made it clear where he stands on all this.. check out his Instagram or Facebook. Sounds like he’s more on ALPAs side than many thought.

Care to elaborate for those that don't have social media?

Cyio
06-22-2019, 02:13 PM
Care to elaborate for those that don't have social media?

See above. Basically he wants to inspire aviation enthusiasts etc. He didn't touch on a single aspect of what many have an issue with.

rld1k
06-22-2019, 02:22 PM
Swayne just made it clear where he stands on all this.. check out his Instagram or Facebook. Sounds like he’s more on ALPAs side than many thought.

He didn't make anything clear other than he values his social media influencer clout more than his fellow pilots

OOfff
06-22-2019, 02:40 PM
He made it about that when he brought that desecrated abomination of an American flag and slung it up in front the company’s plane. Fair game. Professionals leave that sort of thing at home when they come to work.
Serious question: how upset are you at pilots who have a blue lives matter/blue line American flag sticker on their suitcase? You’ll probably say you’re equally upset, but I bet that, deep down, you aren’t.

WhipWhitaker
06-22-2019, 04:06 PM
Serious question: how upset are you at pilots who have a blue lives matter/blue line American flag sticker on their suitcase? You’ll probably say you’re equally upset, but I bet that, deep down, you aren’t.

Oh it’s not deep down at all. In fact, it’s right on the surface. One represents the best and bravest this country has to offer, our law enforcement. The other represents a lifestyle choice better left at home where the rest of us non-attention seaking normal people leave ours.

OOfff
06-22-2019, 04:14 PM
Oh it’s not deep down at all. In fact, it’s right on the surface. One represents the best and bravest this country has to offer, our law enforcement. The other represents a lifestyle choice better left at home where the rest of us non-attention seaking normal people leave ours.
So, you’re not really upset about “desecrating the flag,” but that people are being publicly proud.

As for the “best” in “best and bravest,” check out the plainview project

MD-11Loader
06-22-2019, 04:19 PM
I think he took a decent stance, especially saying he pushed back against the company wanting more influence on his content.

WhipWhitaker
06-22-2019, 05:13 PM
So, you’re not really upset about “desecrating the flag,” but that people are being publicly proud.

As for the “best” in “best and bravest,” check out the plainview project

We all get it, everyone gets it. You’re HR’s wet dream, congratulations. Virtue signaled, mission accomplished. I sure hope you never need a police officer, but if you do, they’ll be there regardless of what you think of them.

NoValueAviator
06-22-2019, 05:43 PM
Sure got "Thin Blue Line American Flag Punisher Skull bumper sticker" in here all of a sudden. Yes, they're both desecrations of the American flag, and it's kind of sad, but I mean how many times have you seen old glory hugging some thot's genitals on the beach? This is a battle that austere patriots lost at some point in the distant past while the baby boomers were on the tiller.

OOfff
06-22-2019, 05:52 PM
We all get it, everyone gets it. You’re HR’s wet dream, congratulations. Virtue signaled, mission accomplished. I sure hope you never need a police officer, but if you do, they’ll be there regardless of what you think of them.

I love it when people get all handwavey talking about virtue signaling as if the only reason someone might support pride or criticize police fetishization/worship is for the adoration of others.

henryjj
06-23-2019, 07:28 AM
I think he took a decent stance, especially saying he pushed back against the company wanting more influence on his content.

I agree.

I know that I’ve disagreed with a few of you here... But it’s really hard to argue with what he said in his post. And those of you who disagree with him should at least give him props for making it very clear to his followers that he supports the union and a better contract.

He’s been doing this for years, since he was 15 or something. These videos seem to me like a very factual continuation of his career. He adds very little “spin” in any video... he even called his own videos boring in the post. Whether or not you like him, or the idea of being a public figure and a pilot, it doesn’t seem like he’s as “against” the interests of the pilot group as some try to make it seem. Can we just give it is a rest on this thread now?

rld1k
06-23-2019, 08:11 AM
What did you expect him to say lol, f the union? He's still management's boy going to recruiting events and making videos during negotiations. Can't even wait until negotiations are over to post, really? He can do whatever he wants. He should just realize that he's ****ing off a large number of his co-workers.

henryjj
06-23-2019, 08:56 AM
What did you expect him to say lol, f the union? He's still management's boy going to recruiting events and making videos during negotiations. Can't even wait until negotiations are over to post, really? He can do whatever he wants. He should just realize that he's ****ing off a large number of his co-workers.

Well, I for one didn’t expect him to openly push back on the company asking the videos to be more focused on Envoy. Plus, if he’d waited for negotiations to be over I’m assuming he’d never have a video in the first place. Union negotiations are always happening, right? Plus, this particular video was uploaded before the union announcement you guys are talking about.

Bruno82
06-23-2019, 09:06 AM
Swayne is a great pilot, great to work with and an asset to the crew. I don’t see how his videos are biased towards the company. We shan’t focus frustrations on him.


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MEGAFUPM
06-23-2019, 09:18 AM
Well, I for one didn’t expect him to openly push back on the company asking the videos to be more focused on Envoy. Plus, if he’d waited for negotiations to be over I’m assuming he’d never have a video in the first place. Union negotiations are always happening, right? Plus, this particular video was uploaded before the union announcement you guys are talking about.

Again, no. The new pay negotiations started in April. But, I don't really see him pro management vs not. He's taking advantage of Envoy giving him exclusive rights to social media coverage while every other pilot is essentially barred from it. I'm very sure recruiters from United, Delta, American, etc have seen his videos, and he probably won't be in the regional game for that long.

Cyio
06-23-2019, 09:23 AM
Swayne is a great pilot, great to work with and an asset to the crew. I don’t see how his videos are biased towards the company. We shan’t focus frustrations on him.


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Great, I dont think a single person said he wasn't a great person/pilot/human being. All but a very select few have zero issues with him as a person or coworker.

All we said was that we feel he should hold off on any new videos until this AIP issue has been resolved. Are we really asking that much? Make the videos, produce the videos, have Envoy management bless the videos, just dont post any new ones until this is over.

Its really a pretty simple request, why it has spiraled into this huge issue is beyond me. As for his post on IG, yeah sure, thanks, however it was pretty white washed.

Tyrion
06-23-2019, 09:43 AM
Well, I for one didn’t expect him to openly push back on the company asking the videos to be more focused on Envoy. Plus, if he’d waited for negotiations to be over I’m assuming he’d never have a video in the first place. Union negotiations are always happening, right? Plus, this particular video was uploaded before the union announcement you guys are talking about.

If only Youtube had a button that allowed content creators to set a video from public to private or unlisted...

Alternatively, especially since he is going to recruiting events, I hope he is getting paid as a recruiter. If he is giving Envoy free publicity, well, c'mon man.

Truthanator
06-23-2019, 10:15 AM
Is it just me, or is Swayne sounding better and better as a name now?


Look at the bright side, Envoy has a strong "regional union" in ALPA that will take care of things. That 2% investment "insurance" is really going to pay off.;)

ERAUAV8TR
06-23-2019, 11:33 AM
If only Youtube had a button that allowed content creators to set a video from public to private or unlisted...

Alternatively, especially since he is going to recruiting events, I hope he is getting paid as a recruiter. If he is giving Envoy free publicity, well, c'mon man.

He is paid handsomely

rld1k
06-24-2019, 08:11 AM
https://youtu.be/e7O0z-TfgKY

Swayne shilling for mokulele. Starts a gofundme to get a CFI enough money to move to Hawaii and work poverty wages flying the caravan "airliner", undercutting the industry and subsidizing mokuleles embarrassing wages. This is pretty unethical.

henryjj
06-24-2019, 10:16 AM
https://youtu.be/e7O0z-TfgKY

Swayne shilling for mokulele. Starts a gofundme to get a CFI enough money to move to Hawaii and work poverty wages flying the caravan "airliner", undercutting the industry and subsidizing mokuleles embarrassing wages. This is pretty unethical.

2 years ago.

For contrast: Or he saw someone that needed an opportunity to build flight time when she couldn’t afford to get her CFI? Sounds like she needed to get over the “hours” hump to make it to a regional carrier and begin paying off some loans.

Sorry I keep interjecting here, especially since I only know of Swayne through mutual friends... But it really ticks me off how much, and how often, people tear this guy apart. He’s done a better job than you ever will to get people involved in this career path... His videos are one of the reasons I started flying in the first place years ago.

Cyio
06-24-2019, 10:23 AM
2 years ago.

For contrast: Or he saw someone that needed an opportunity to build flight time when she couldn’t afford to get her CFI? Sounds like she needed to get over the “hours” hump to make it to a regional carrier and begin paying off some loans.

Sorry I keep interjecting here, especially since I only know of Swayne through mutual friends... But it really ticks me off how much, and how often, people tear this guy apart. He’s done a better job than you ever will to get people involved in this career path... His videos are one of the reasons I started flying in the first place years ago.

I wouldn't take things so personally, this is forum and known for this. While I dont agree with him posting recruiting videos right now, and yes, that is exactly what they are, I certainly hold no ill feelings toward him.

pitchattitude
06-24-2019, 10:24 AM
2 years ago.

For contrast: Or he saw someone that needed an opportunity to build flight time when she couldn’t afford to get her CFI? Sounds like she needed to get over the “hours” hump to make it to a regional carrier and begin paying off some loans.

Sorry I keep interjecting here, especially since I only know of Swayne through mutual friends... But it really ticks me off how much, and how often, people tear this guy apart. He’s done a better job than you ever will to get people involved in this career path... His videos are one of the reasons I started flying in the first place years ago.
Another authority well seasoned in the industry.

Years ago???