Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : If I quit


grumpydwarf
08-01-2018, 03:53 PM
I come from a military helo background and came in under the RTP. I quickly realized that this isn't for me, to the point that I am just miserable. I have learned that I am not the only one either; other RTP guys are contemplating leaving as well.

If I quit, I have to repay the bonus and training costs, so how hard does Envoy come after you for that? Will they work with you at all?


Houpilot2001
08-01-2018, 04:00 PM
I come from a military helo background and came in under the RTP. I quickly realized that this isn't for me, to the point that I am just miserable. I have learned that I am not the only one either; other RTP guys are contemplating leaving as well.

If I quit, I have to repay the bonus and training costs, so how hard does Envoy come after you for that? Will they work with you at all?

Get the lube ready. I know a few who have left and they received the letters within 30 days. I've never followed up with them as to if they actually pursued it but they are asking for it back at least. (This was about 15 months ago atleast)

havick206
08-01-2018, 04:43 PM
I come from a military helo background and came in under the RTP. I quickly realized that this isn't for me, to the point that I am just miserable. I have learned that I am not the only one either; other RTP guys are contemplating leaving as well.

If I quit, I have to repay the bonus and training costs, so how hard does Envoy come after you for that? Will they work with you at all?

What was the timeframe for repayment? Can you drop orders to see this period out, and then quit after you come back for a month or so?


FullThrust
08-01-2018, 05:02 PM
What was the timeframe for repayment? Can you drop orders to see this period out, and then quit after you come back for a month or so?

I believe it is 100% if you leave prior to a year and 50% if you leave between 1 and the start of year 2. That 50% might be prorated by month. I canít recall.

wiz5422
08-01-2018, 05:10 PM
What was the timeframe for repayment? Can you drop orders to see this period out, and then quit after you come back for a month or so?

You signed a contract....took money, got ratings etc. Honor it.

TiredSoul
08-01-2018, 05:14 PM
You signed a contract....took money, got ratings etc. Honor it.

This ^^^^......

grumpydwarf
08-01-2018, 05:18 PM
You signed a contract....took money, got ratings etc. Honor it.

I'm all about honoring a contract, that's why I'm asking about repayment time and terms. I'm not looking to cheat my way out of the deal. This just isn't for me and I'm sure you wouldn't want to fly with someone who is unhappy with the lifestyle and counting the days until they can leave.

Whiskey4
08-01-2018, 05:25 PM
I come from a military helo background and came in under the RTP. I quickly realized that this isn't for me, to the point that I am just miserable. I have learned that I am not the only one either; other RTP guys are contemplating leaving as well.

If I quit, I have to repay the bonus and training costs, so how hard does Envoy come after you for that? Will they work with you at all?

They will likely work with you, but donít expect a discount. Companies who let people off the hook on contract obligations get abused.

Your comment about others also planning to leave is concerning. I will grant that you need to look out for you and your family. But it just sucks because enough people quitting mid-contract will likely ruin the RTP opportunity for others who hope it will be there when they are ready to make the jump.

Anyways, Iíve always found this job to be a pretty good one. Far from perfect at the regional level, but Iíve worked office jobs, labor jobs, management jobs, etc. outside of the airlines/aviation. I was home more nights in those jobs, but I was always tied to a time clock, a cell phone, a crappy cube, or dealing with employee issues. This beats the pants off of all that.

Have you reached out to people on the forum, or others who have made it work for more than a decade waiting to flow or go to another career job? Perhaps they have some advice, of can help you better utilize the contract to make it more palatable.

If you hate it though...probably best to leave. You donít want to spend life being miserable at work.

bigtime209
08-01-2018, 06:46 PM
I come from a military helo background and came in under the RTP. I quickly realized that this isn't for me, to the point that I am just miserable. I have learned that I am not the only one either; other RTP guys are contemplating leaving as well.

If I quit, I have to repay the bonus and training costs, so how hard does Envoy come after you for that? Will they work with you at all?

Life's too short to be miserable. Just out of sheer curiosity, what about the whole deal is making you the most miserable? Is it an Envoy specific/company problem or is the airline lifestyle in general? Or is it C). All of the Above?

EmbaeDriver
08-01-2018, 06:52 PM
Wait the 2 years then quit

griff312
08-01-2018, 07:14 PM
If I understand correctly, you have to pay back all bonuses in full, if you leave within the 1st year. Prorated within the 2nd year.
None of my business, but if I may ask,
-How long have you been here (Envoy)?
-Am I correct to assume that you're retired or prior military, coming through RTP?
-What is it specifically that makes you miserable? As the other guy asked, is it Envoy specific, industry specific, or just a general dealing with civilian life this side of the industry?
Because if it's the latter, I would say that we ALL vets went through that ordeal. I had a hard time readjusting to civi life after I got out. I wanted to throat punch everybody! But I eventually chilled and just accepted the way things are, but continued my own style of business as usual. I thought it was just crappy at the first place I went when I got out. I was wrong. In the end, it's the same no matter where, just different colors and names on the doors.

Anyway, do whatever doesn't make you miserable.

pitchattitude
08-01-2018, 07:21 PM
Donít know about the RTP part, but the bonus is pro rated after 12 months, by the month. Definitely want to stick it out the first year if possible, but that is from hire date, at least, not the finish of training.

SoFloFlyer
08-01-2018, 08:13 PM
If I understand correctly, you have to pay back all bonuses in full, if you leave within the 1st year. Prorated within the 2nd year.
None of my business, but if I may ask,
-How long have you been here (Envoy)?
-Am I correct to assume that you're retired or prior military, coming through RTP?
-What is it specifically that makes you miserable? As the other guy asked, is it Envoy specific, industry specific, or just a general dealing with civilian life this side of the industry?
Because if it's the latter, I would say that we ALL vets went through that ordeal. I had a hard time readjusting to civi life after I got out. I wanted to throat punch everybody! But I eventually chilled and just accepted the way things are, but continued my own style of business as usual. I thought it was just crappy at the first place I went when I got out. I was wrong. In the end, it's the same no matter where, just different colors and names on the doors.

Anyway, do whatever doesn't make you miserable.

I laughed so hard at the throat punch part! 😂

DanRoman
08-01-2018, 08:39 PM
I laughed so hard at the throat punch part! 😂

Cause itís true!!

Skid Mark
08-01-2018, 10:10 PM
other RTP guys are contemplating leaving as well.


Please don't involve the rest of us RTP guys in your decision. If the airline isn't right for you, that's understandable and fine. However, I know more than just some of the RTP guys (and I am one). I don't know of any of them that are unhappy here, or that are contemplating quitting.


In regards to your original question though... I do know someone who got an UNSAT on his MV/PV... no second chance, he was asked to go home. The company did not ask him to repay his RTP costs or his $20k sign-on bonus. He is now an FO at another airline.


Might I ask where are you in the airline? Are you still in training? Are you through IOE? Are you holding a line yet? Life gets IMMENSELY better when you hold a line, and reserve times are near zero. If you're just hating life in training, I promise it gets better. If you aren't holding a line yet, I promise life is grand once you do. Between trip-trading, and bidding for lines... I've been consistently "away from work" for 14+ days a month!

TiredSoul
08-01-2018, 10:49 PM
How enjoyable was your first year in the military?

LRSRanger
08-02-2018, 02:37 AM
I get a chuckle when I see all these people advising the OPís of these ďbreak my contractĒ threads to do the right thing and pay up. These regionals have been ******* pilots over for years while management types took it to the bank. If they could they would be still raping you and the only reason they arenít is there arenít enough pilots grabbing their ankles anymore. Anyone who treats an employee like these airlines have historically treated their pilots doesnít give a crap about you or your family. I fail to see why we should care about their financial loss, they never cared about ours.

bh5311
08-02-2018, 04:37 AM
What don't you like? Is it Envoy specific or just the airline life?

grumpydwarf
08-02-2018, 07:40 AM
What don't you like? Is it Envoy specific or just the airline life?

I appreciate all of the input on this thread. To answer questions about what I don't like, it's a few things. I am recently out of training, and training was a disorganized mess. There were even DEC's in my class that were struggling.

My first year and every year in the military was awesome and fun. I would say the difference between then and now is the family factor.

It was an exciting endeavor to begin with and the family was excited but it has changed me, not for the better. I went through my "throat-punch everyone" years after active duty and it occasionally resurfaced through training. The schedule is taking a toll on the family; not exactly as we thought it would be, especially commuting. I have come to the conclusion that this isn't the lifestyle for me and my family; perhaps when the kids are grown and out of the house, but not during the growing years...not for me anyway. I will try to make it at least to the 1-year mark so it keeps the payback cost down and remain in good standing.

With respect to RTP, I know many that are still eager and happy to be where they are and they are all young. The ones that are seriously contemplating leaving are the older guys. It's not just RTP, there are some civilian pilots considering the same as well.

Thanks again for the input. Safe flying.

Houpilot2001
08-02-2018, 08:23 AM
I will try to make it at least to the 1-year mark so it keeps the payback cost down and remain in good standing.

Theres no difference between week 1 and week 53 in repayment cost. If you're gonna bail, may as well do it now. Once you pass the year mark, it drops $1,875 per month.

ENH017
08-02-2018, 08:28 AM
Theres no difference between week 1 and week 53 in repayment cost. If you're gonna bail, may as well do it now. Once you pass the year mark, it drops $1,875 per month.

If its like the rest of the sign on bonuses Envoy gives out, all of it is due if you quit before the end of year 1, after that its prorated. AKA, if he waits for the end of year one half of the bonuses do not have to be repaid.

DreadWing
08-02-2018, 10:02 AM
My first year and every year in the military was awesome and fun. I would say the difference between then and now is the family factor.

Where are you speculating things might be better?

I might be able to provide you some relevant perspective; I spent the first fifteen years of my professional life in charter, fractional, and corporate.

griff312
08-02-2018, 10:29 AM
Where are you speculating things might be better?

I might be able to provide you some relevant perspective; I spent the first fifteen years of my professional life in charter, fractional, and corporate.

This is a good point, and a good question. As much as this ppace sucks in some (many) ways, I can attest that compared to most of my former aviation gigs, the pro's outweigh the cons here. Corporate gigs? Yeah, depending on the company, you might spend more time at home, but you'll spend a lot of that time either doing NASA reports because the owers wanted you to do something sketchy, or browsing for a new job, dreaming of the day you can sign a long term financial deal because your next paycheck is not very certain.

Booker
08-02-2018, 11:47 AM
If I quit, I have to repay the bonus and training costs, so how hard does Envoy come after you for that?
If you don't respond to or--as happened in my case--never receive the collection letter, you get a standard nastygram from ENY's attorneys threatening suit if you don't pay up. They were pretty understanding, though, as far as collections lawyers go.

BarrySeal
08-02-2018, 11:50 AM
when does the "clock start" ? day-1 of ground school or Day-1 of flying the line as a new hire ?

Can you pay it back ? aka get the bonus, put it into savings account, then if you don't like it, quit and return the bonus ? Or is that not possible ?

saywhat
08-02-2018, 11:56 AM
I was a rotor guy from the Army and got on with a regional back in 2001 (yes I'm Old). As you might imagine I was almost immediately furloughed after 9/11......6 months later they called me back but I didn't go. Fortunately I had a better flying job in hand. They tried to come after me for the training contract since I was under a year of employment. I told them to **** off. As far as I was concerned they had fired me (furloughed) and I had zero responsibility to pay that money back. I never heard from them again. The point is, they will come looking for the money even when they know its not owed to them. In your case I'm quite certain they will be persistent in looking for repayment since it will have been your decision to break the contract.

Good Luck to you. As others have said, do what makes you happy!

Whiskey4
08-02-2018, 05:06 PM
when does the "clock start" ? day-1 of ground school or Day-1 of flying the line as a new hire ?

Can you pay it back ? aka get the bonus, put it into savings account, then if you don't like it, quit and return the bonus ? Or is that not possible ?


Clock starts Day 1 of Indoc.


You can throw the money in savings and just hand it back, but you will still owe the company the taxes they withheld (which you never received).

BarrySeal
08-02-2018, 05:36 PM
Clock starts Day 1 of Indoc.


You can throw the money in savings and just hand it back, but you will still owe the company the taxes they withheld (which you never received).


Can you just decline the bonus all-together ?

Houpilot2001
08-02-2018, 06:24 PM
Can you just decline the bonus all-together ?

Yes.



Fillerrrrrr

Whiskey4
08-02-2018, 07:52 PM
Can you just decline the bonus all-together ?

Yes. I suppose this may be advisable for people who have a very strong reason to believe they will not be at Envoy for very long. Perhaps fixed-wing military time with good connections at a major or two.

Pedro4President
08-03-2018, 02:53 AM
I'm going to take a wild guess and say you were hired at Envoy within the past year and on the 145. I'm hearing a lot of moaning and complaining from you guys in the crew room who got caught up in the over hiring from fall of 2017 on. My suggestion is that it will get better with time. Within a year the upgrades are going to skyrocket (meaning 15/16 FOs will be upgraded at a high rate) and a new norm will set in of hiring and upgrading and flowing.

Houpilot2001
08-03-2018, 07:15 AM
Just talked to a pilot who was let go out of training. Said there were a few phone calls and letters sent but that was over a year ago and nothing since.

Cyio
08-03-2018, 09:36 AM
There were a couple people in our new hire class that couldnít get through Sims last year and they both quit. Neither has had to pay anything back and only received a couple notices.

Bigpimppilot
08-03-2018, 11:31 AM
Does their credit report show anything?

pitchattitude
08-03-2018, 12:00 PM
There were a couple people in our new hire class that couldnít get through Sims last year and they both quit. Neither has had to pay anything back and only received a couple notices.

My understanding of the contract was you did not owe anything back if you didnít make it through training. Didnít go back and look at after I finished training, though.

BarrySeal
08-03-2018, 04:42 PM
Does their credit report show anything?


not sure if credit can be impacted if it is not considered a "loan" scenario or if Envoy does not put a lien or some action against you

lookmom
08-03-2018, 09:53 PM
Clock starts Day 1 of Indoc.


You can throw the money in savings and just hand it back, but you will still owe the company the taxes they withheld (which you never received).

So lets say that 40% taxes were withheld out of a bonus of $20,000; so that leaves you $12k after tax in your bank. So youíre saying if one leaves within a year, you owe back $20k? So that means you now have to scrap up another $8k that you never really received that Uncle Sam took and give that back to the company? Is there a way to recoup that tax money you had to payback out of your own pocket when you file taxes at the end of the year? Or are you purely screwed?

DanRoman
08-03-2018, 10:52 PM
So lets say that 40% taxes were withheld out of a bonus of $20,000; so that leaves you $12k after tax in your bank. So youíre saying if one leaves within a year, you owe back $20k? So that means you now have to scrap up another $8k that you never really received that Uncle Sam took and give that back to the company? Is there a way to recoup that tax money you had to payback out of your own pocket when you file taxes at the end of the year? Or are you purely screwed?

Yes you would owe the full amount back despite not receiving the full amount due to taxes. You can recoup the loss during tax time but you have to be sure and get documentation of the repayment from the company.

Whiskey4
08-04-2018, 11:12 AM
Yes you would owe the full amount back despite not receiving the full amount due to taxes. You can recoup the loss during tax time but you have to be sure and get documentation of the repayment from the company.

This ^^^^^.

Uncle Sam returns to you the money that the company paid in taxes. You reimburse Envoy, and get the tax portion back as part of a tax refund.



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1