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ASpilot0936
08-04-2018, 10:03 AM
What else can it be? Watch the MEC video sent yesterday. Pulling back & handing your competitors your market share? Makes you more attractive for a buyout so brad & ben can get their parachutes.


Thoughts?


SmoothLanderJ
08-04-2018, 10:46 AM
What else can it be? Watch the MEC video sent yesterday. Pulling back & handing your competitors your market share? Makes you more attractive for a buyout so brad & ben can get their parachutes.


Thoughts?

Though the same thing, unfortunately. I have no clue what B & B are doing.

OCCP
08-04-2018, 01:22 PM
I hope we got bought. Thatís the only way to save this hell hole.


Mea25000
08-04-2018, 02:13 PM
Armchair Quarterbacks... I honestly think B and B are playing an incredible hand of poker. I think the outcome might just surprise you. Fly the jet and enjoy.

On the other hand CY an JW looked pretty silly in there little claim to video fame. I donít think I have ever listened to more words that told me nothing... I think those faces should stick to radio. That was embarrassing!

flysnoopy76
08-04-2018, 02:21 PM
Seems like the talk of buyouts and future mergers are mostly confined to the Alaska forum, donít see anything else other than a JetBlue and frontier thread anywhere. Makes me think the talk of a new buyout / merger is mostly hopeful thinking by a lot of us, at least at this point.

Ispeakjive
08-04-2018, 02:50 PM
Armchair Quarterbacks... I honestly think B and B are playing an incredible hand of poker. I think the outcome might just surprise you. Fly the jet and enjoy.

On the other hand CY an JW looked pretty silly in there little claim to video fame. I donít think I have ever listened to more words that told me nothing... I think those faces should stick to radio. That was embarrassing!

Nice to see you on here. I thought it was wabbit season for your NDA tap dancing (violations). I think the video was spot on for a group who wants to move forward at THIS airline. But, honestly,
I think B&B are on track to sell out. I'm thinking Delta.

echelon
08-04-2018, 03:19 PM
But, honestly,
I think B&B are on track to sell out. I'm thinking Delta.

Aw yeah keep talking dirty to me, I'm almost there

MusicPilot
08-04-2018, 03:34 PM
Letís see. They lost 1/2 the stock value, albeit itís come back a little. They overpaid for VX and didnít/havenít capatlized on the synergies, or at least figure out how to. The arbitrators surprised them with an increase cost in pilot payroll, which Iím thinking they werenít prepared for. DLís closing in on the PNW market. WN will eat at the Hawaiian profits. How does B&B fix/save this? Or do they sell out to get the most money?

seekingblue
08-04-2018, 04:25 PM
are we getting married? Seems like we are getting married to our brother's ex wife. Likely Y'all feel the same, except the virgin guys, who get their east coast flying back.

think it makes sense, actually. Don't really care except for 2 items:

1) we fix your dumpster fire that is your scope clause. Our's is zero scope. No jetblue express period. Hope no bluelaska scope allowances either. FYI I'm a 10 year regional refugee. I don't dislike regional guys, I just want all our flying to be in house.


2) Since pilots are stupid, arrogant, and self entitled, I have to say this: whoever wears the first, "hired, not acquired" lanyard gets a round house kick in the nuts. Don't care if it us, Virgin dudes, or Alaska dudes. F that. We are all in this as one group (should this arranged and forced marriage happen) Don't be douches to other Pilots. Ever.

MusicPilot
08-04-2018, 04:42 PM
are we getting married? Seems like we are getting married to our brother's ex wife. Likely Y'all feel the same, except the virgin guys, who get their east coast flying back.

think it makes sense, actually. Don't really care except for 2 items:

1) we fix your dumpster fire that is your scope clause. Our's is zero scope. No jetblue express period. Hope no bluelaska scope allowances either. FYI I'm a 10 year regional refugee. I don't dislike regional guys, I just want all our flying to be in house.


2) Since pilots are stupid, arrogant, and self entitled, I have to say this: whoever wears the first, "hired, not acquired" lanyard gets a round house kick in the nuts. Don't care if it us, Virgin dudes, or Alaska dudes. F that. We are all in this as one group (should this arranged and forced marriage happen) Don't be douches to other Pilots. Ever.

In the words of Peter Griffin:

ďRoadhouse!Ē

waterboy
08-04-2018, 10:23 PM
What else can it be? Watch the MEC video sent yesterday. Pulling back & handing your competitors your market share? Makes you more attractive for a buyout so brad & ben can get their parachutes.


Thoughts?

Because the ALA MEC believes our management is inept, you think ALK is on the selling block? I dont think anything is in works for an merger/acquisition announcement anytime soon. I think all this M&A talk is strictly hope by people who hate it here.

OCCP
08-05-2018, 07:40 AM
I think all this M&A talk is strictly hope by people who hate it here.



I agree. Itís all just wishful thinking because there is no direction at the top of this company. With the recent email this morning blaming everything on the Airbus and ALPA, it makes me hate this place even more. Instead of running an airline, they want to blame others for problems they created.

Skyward
08-05-2018, 08:25 AM
Seems like the talk of buyouts and future mergers are mostly confined to the Alaska forum, donít see anything else other than a JetBlue and frontier thread anywhere. Makes me think the talk of a new buyout / merger is mostly hopeful thinking by a lot of us, at least at this point.

Although the talk has died down and pilot hiring continues, there was this...

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/southwest/114716-southwest-hiring-freeze.html

IFlyNFish
08-05-2018, 10:05 AM
They had a 2 week pause... for administrative hires. Sounds like they are still hiring 750+ this year and no plans to slow.


If anyone has slowed hiring for now, itís DL... but with their growth in SEA thereís no reason for them to consider AS.

All Bizniz
08-05-2018, 10:49 AM
With the recent email this morning blaming everything on the Airbus and ALPA........

I thought the same thing.. The Airbus was reliable for the 10 years we had them and now suddenly they're not?

Beta82
08-05-2018, 11:55 AM
Armchair Quarterbacks... I honestly think B and B are playing an incredible hand of poker. I think the outcome might just surprise you. Fly the jet and enjoy.

On the other hand CY an JW looked pretty silly in there little claim to video fame. I donít think I have ever listened to more words that told me nothing... I think those faces should stick to radio. That was embarrassing!

Can we stop calling it ďThe Jet?Ē This isnít the dawn of the ĒJet Age.Ē Everyone operates jets now.

If the incredible hand of poker involves ****ing everyone off, they are doing a superb job. The only outcome that would be positive is merging or getting bought by another airline.

I think the MEC speaks for most of us, what they said is exactly what most of us think. Can't wait for the upcoming initiatives that the union is working on for the pilots!

Jetlife
08-05-2018, 01:10 PM
Because the ALA MEC believes our management is inept, you think ALK is on the selling block? I dont think anything is in works for an merger/acquisition announcement anytime soon. I think all this M&A talk is strictly hope by people who hate it here.

Not saying the video is any indication of being bought, however if we do get bought, hind sight would make it comedically obvious that they were doing things to align the chips to be sold. Too many odd things going on right now. 100% freeze on any Airbus improvements and paint, a general lack of mx upkeep, the closing of JFK, hiring freeze etc. I think they are getting the PNL in line to look good to a potential buyer. For a company that has been around 87 years I never never been less confident in our collective future.

flywest
08-05-2018, 01:25 PM
[QUOTE=Beta82;2649425]Can we stop calling it ďThe Jet?Ē This isnít the dawn of the ĒJet Age.Ē Everyone operates jets now.

Well the 737/320's are jets. Welcome aboard. It's an Alaska thing. As far as getting bought, if it happens we'll read it in the paper like everyone else. Relax fly the "jet", and fly the contract. Everything else will work it's self out.

Chuckie
08-05-2018, 01:51 PM
Too many odd things going on right now. 100% freeze on any Airbus improvements and paint, a general lack of mx upkeep, the closing of JFK, hiring freeze etc.

I wonder if they aren't getting ready to offload the bus fleet? Rumor has it that another legacy is shopping around for more of them.

Jetlife
08-05-2018, 03:08 PM
I wonder if they aren't getting ready to offload the bus fleet? Rumor has it that another legacy is shopping around for more of them.

I can say, because I have heard the powers that control this say that United would take all the leases tomorrow if they could...

That is a very real possibility. But the more VX stuff they divest and get rid of, you have to scratch your head more and more at what they actually bought. 4 billion dollars to close a base, get rid of a modern airline culture, give up gates to regional flying, AND give up a fleet of aircraft? Presumably giving up the staffing levels to go along with it? I think this was a core frustration with the group and was echoed in the MEC video. What is the plan? Like really, what is the plan here? Give us something real...

Blue Dude
08-05-2018, 03:48 PM
Defensive move against a perceived existential threat? $4 billion to keep B6/VX from merging cheaply. No idea why it was worth that much to AS though.

Beta82
08-05-2018, 04:27 PM
[QUOTE=Beta82;2649425]Can we stop calling it ďThe Jet?Ē This isnít the dawn of the ĒJet Age.Ē Everyone operates jets now.

Well the 737/320's are jets. Welcome aboard. It's an Alaska thing. As far as getting bought, if it happens we'll read it in the paper like everyone else. Relax fly the "jet", and fly the contract. Everything else will work it's self out.

Maybe it's time for a change? You can see why one might think that calling your airplane Ēthe jetĒ might be a little ostentatious. Definitely not necessary in 2018. Maybe we can work towards getting rid of that saying along with the crappy contract in 2019/2020/2021/ yougetthepoint. :thumbsup:

Jetlife
08-05-2018, 04:37 PM
Defensive move against a perceived existential threat? $4 billion to keep B6/VX from merging cheaply. No idea why it was worth that much to AS though.

It was to prevent Delta from taking over.

KnockKnock
08-05-2018, 05:03 PM
Not saying the video is any indication of being bought, however if we do get bought, hind sight would make it comedically obvious that they were doing things to align the chips to be sold. Too many odd things going on right now. 100% freeze on any Airbus improvements and paint, a general lack of mx upkeep, the closing of JFK, hiring freeze etc. I think they are getting the PNL in line to look good to a potential buyer. For a company that has been around 87 years I never never been less confident in our collective future.
Did I misread JLís email? I thought he wrote that the company will be taking many Airbus off line to paint and update the interiors with Alaska colors/scheme. I skimmed it pretty fast but I thought that was in there?

Jetlife
08-05-2018, 05:18 PM
Did I misread JLís email? I thought he wrote that the company will be taking many Airbus off line to paint and update the interiors with Alaska colors/scheme. I skimmed it pretty fast but I thought that was in there?

It's in there. But they have only painted one Bus and then completely stopped. They could have done 1-2 a month instead of taking a bunch offline at once. It seems as if they stopped supporting the Airbus completely. We shall see...

waterboy
08-05-2018, 07:36 PM
It's in there. But they have only painted one Bus and then completely stopped. They could have done 1-2 a month instead of taking a bunch offline at once. It seems as if they stopped supporting the Airbus completely. We shall see...

take 2 planes down a month during the busy summer months? Or wait until the historically slower First Quarter to start taking metal offline.

I dont like this management team either, but you sound like you are just grabbing at straws.

greatlake
08-05-2018, 08:25 PM
Alaska and JetBlue wanted to merge but couldn't decide on who would run it or the name of the airline. Then AS went to Virgin America.

Defensive move against a perceived existential threat? $4 billion to keep B6/VX from merging cheaply. No idea why it was worth that much to AS though.

Blue Dude
08-05-2018, 08:40 PM
It was to prevent Delta from taking over.

Not sure how bidding up VX vs B6, not Delta, is supposed to help.

cmrflyer
08-05-2018, 08:48 PM
Delta was also bidding for virgin, they walked away when the price got insane.

kmav8
08-05-2018, 08:49 PM
It was to prevent Delta from taking over.



Iím skeptical of that.

greatlake
08-05-2018, 09:02 PM
Delta was also bidding for virgin, they walked away when the price got insane.
Delta walked away when they thought regulators wouldn't allow a merger that big.

greatlake
08-05-2018, 09:07 PM
Iím skeptical of that.
AS had a lot of cash on hand and the stock was relatively cheap. Management at Alaska was worried about being taken over.

450knotOffice
08-05-2018, 09:49 PM
[QUOTE=flywest;2649472]

Maybe it's time for a change? You can see why one might think that calling your airplane Ēthe jetĒ might be a little ostentatious. Definitely not necessary in 2018. Maybe we can work towards getting rid of that saying along with the crappy contract in 2019/2020/2021/ yougetthepoint. :thumbsup:

I donít even work for your airline and I canít, for the life of me, comprehend why you care in the least about the terms JET vs. AIRPLANE. Who cares? I mean, really? Who cares? Plane, jet, whatever.

Were you a hall monitor in junior high?

Skyward
08-05-2018, 10:23 PM
[QUOTE=flywest;2649472]

Maybe it's time for a change? You can see why one might think that calling your airplane Ēthe jetĒ might be a little ostentatious. Definitely not necessary in 2018. Maybe we can work towards getting rid of that saying along with the crappy contract in 2019/2020/2021/ yougetthepoint. :thumbsup:

ďthe jetĒ is a very common term at SWA too. Iím thinking itís because itís a jet...

Jetlife
08-06-2018, 02:08 AM
take 2 planes down a month during the busy summer months? Or wait until the historically slower First Quarter to start taking metal offline.

I dont like this management team either, but you sound like you are just grabbing at straws.

It isnít just grabbing at straws. The amount of MELs we are carrying are above and beyond from what we ever carried before. WiFi and pax comfort items are being left broken, in fact I have had a few 4 day trips where 50% of the airplanes have WiFi written up, and not just the sat wifi.

Iím not saying itís a sign of being bought, to me itís a sign of the Bus going away, but if there is an acquisition, we will look back at this and it will be obvious that something was going on in hind sight.

Taking down a bunch of planes at once to paint in any month seems silly. Postponing all aircraft painting for what, 6 months now, has put them on an even tighter schedule to get it done (donít forget that there is a royalty fee and deadline to get this livery off the planes). Meanwhile 737s are going down every month to get decals applied and new paint jobs. Iím not a conspiracy theorist at all, but to me it clearly indicates something. What that something is, we wonít know until we see it on the news.

Jetlife
08-06-2018, 02:13 AM
AS had a lot of cash on hand and the stock was relatively cheap. Management at Alaska was worried about being taken over.

Yep, at this point it looks like they spent 4+ billion just to expand enough to try and not get bought but the stock price hasnít recovered yet. And with the current administration allowing some huge merger/acquisitions, I donít think Alaska is safe from being bought at all.

greatlake
08-06-2018, 04:55 AM
Yep, with the Sprint/T-Mobile anything is possible. But they would have to try to get it done soon as I don't see the current administration making it another 4 years.

Yep, at this point it looks like they spent 4+ billion just to expand enough to try and not get bought but the stock price hasnít recovered yet. And with the current administration allowing some huge merger/acquisitions, I donít think Alaska is safe from being bought at all.

Jetlife
08-06-2018, 05:24 AM
Yep, with the Sprint/T-Mobile anything is possible. But they would have to try to get it done soon as I don't see the current administration making it another 4 years.

Sprint/T-Mobile, AT&T/Time Warner are huge, unprecedented approved mergers. I wouldnít even consider JB in the wheelhouse for purchasing AS. They canít afford it and right now UAL is probably drooling at the idea of buying JB and not having to digest anything.

American and SWA could make a buy at AS and I bet the DOT wouldnít bat an eye right now.

MusicPilot
08-06-2018, 06:35 AM
UAL is probably drooling at the idea of buying JB and not having to digest anything.



UA would have a big problem in the northeast. They made the excellent decision to give up JFK, which DL kindly exploited. There would have to be big concessions between JFK and EWR. BOS would also probably take a hit.

Jetlife
08-06-2018, 06:38 AM
UA would have a big problem in the northeast. They made the excellent decision to give up JFK, which DL kindly exploited. There would have to be big concessions between JFK and EWR. BOS would also probably take a hit.

Thatís exactly my point though. UAL was eyeing JB but would have previously had to divest too much to make it work. Imagine if they had a no restrictions green light to acquire JB because our administration is allowing it

flywest
08-06-2018, 06:56 AM
Beta82- Like I said, relax the "JET" is all good. There are bigger fish to fry than the term "the jet."

KnockKnock
08-06-2018, 07:20 AM
Beta82- Like I said, relax the "JET" is all good. There are bigger fish to fry than the term "the jet."
Beta82 is totally right on this one. It’s a turbofan, we need to start saying things like “just fly the turbofan” and “I’ve got the turbofan”. I mean, if we’re gonna care about nonsense, let’s at least be right. ;)

PasserOGas
08-06-2018, 07:29 AM
It isnít just grabbing at straws. The amount of MELs we are carrying are above and beyond from what we ever carried before. WiFi and pax comfort items are being left broken, in fact I have had a few 4 day trips where 50% of the airplanes have WiFi written up, and not just the sat wifi.

Iím not saying itís a sign of being bought, to me itís a sign of the Bus going away, but if there is an acquisition, we will look back at this and it will be obvious that something was going on in hind sight.

Taking down a bunch of planes at once to paint in any month seems silly. Postponing all aircraft painting for what, 6 months now, has put them on an even tighter schedule to get it done (donít forget that there is a royalty fee and deadline to get this livery off the planes). Meanwhile 737s are going down every month to get decals applied and new paint jobs. Iím not a conspiracy theorist at all, but to me it clearly indicates something. What that something is, we wonít know until we see it on the news.

At jetblue this is exactly how we have been treating the 190s. Makes you think.

Ala5ka
08-06-2018, 08:32 AM
Orange lanyards should go back on. We stupidly agreed to take them off on the promise they would address certain issues that the arbitration fell short on... nothing has been addressed. Bring back orange lanyards. Seriously enough is enough, itís time to show this clown show of a ďleadershipĒ team that their perspective emails are doing nothing but stirring the hornets nest.

It is time to stop giving them what they want for nothing in return. It should be clear that now anything we give we get something. If we donít make these changes now when times are good (and yes a 13% profit margin is good despite what these idiots tell us) then we will be bent over, rode hard, and hung up dry when times get tough. Now is the time, us vs them.

Jetlife
08-06-2018, 08:36 AM
Orange lanyards should go back on. We stupidly agreed to take them off on the promise they would address certain issues that the arbitration fell short on... nothing has been addressed. Bring back orange lanyards. Seriously enough is enough, itís time to show this clown show of a ďleadershipĒ team that their perspective emails are doing nothing but stirring the hornets nest.

My orange lanyard went from my neck to the outside of my roller and hasnít moved since. I think most saw this coming. That was simply a ploy to reduce public perception of any issues. That is their real concern. They never would have addressed the Airbus fume issues had it not been made public.

Ala5ka
08-06-2018, 08:43 AM
Same here, also still proudly have my orange bag tag. My orange lanyard went from my neck to the outside of my roller and hasnít moved since. I think most saw this coming. That was simply a ploy to reduce public perception of any issues. That is their real concern. They never would have addressed the Airbus fume issues had it not been made public.

Danger Close
08-06-2018, 09:22 AM
[QUOTE=flywest;2649472]

Maybe it's time for a change? You can see why one might think that calling your airplane Ēthe jetĒ might be a little ostentatious. Definitely not necessary in 2018. Maybe we can work towards getting rid of that saying along with the crappy contract in 2019/2020/2021/ yougetthepoint. :thumbsup:

As long as you haven't reffered to the TL's as "throttles" in recent times your glass holds water.

Klsytakesit
08-06-2018, 09:28 AM
Orange lanyards should go back on. We stupidly agreed to take them off on the promise they would address certain issues that the arbitration fell short on... nothing has been addressed. Bring back orange lanyards. Seriously enough is enough, itís time to show this clown show of a ďleadershipĒ team that their perspective emails are doing nothing but stirring the hornets nest.

It is time to stop giving them what they want for nothing in return. It should be clear that now anything we give we get something. If we donít make these changes now when times are good (and yes a 13% profit margin is good despite what these idiots tell us) then we will be bent over, rode hard, and hung up dry when times get tough. Now is the time, us vs them.
Did we ever take them off. No wonder the SEA hatpolice glare at me when I pass through. Of course it is time for those of you that took them off to put them back on.
And for the rest of you that didnt bother the first time, dont worry, we got this!

Baradium
08-06-2018, 10:08 AM
Thatís exactly my point though. UAL was eyeing JB but would have previously had to divest too much to make it work. Imagine if they had a no restrictions green light to acquire JB because our administration is allowing it

JetBlue's scope is a poison pill for most acquisition concerns. While they may be able to buy their way out of it, it makes a potential acquisition a lot more expensive and potentially a lot more difficult for management if UAL pilots (who care much more about scope than AS pilots seem to) decide to use to opportunity to go for a return of scope on their end.

While it doesn't completely rule it out, it does make it much less likely.

Jetlife
08-06-2018, 11:38 AM
JetBlue's scope is a poison pill for most acquisition concerns. While they may be able to buy their way out of it, it makes a potential acquisition a lot more expensive and potentially a lot more difficult for management if UAL pilots (who care much more about scope than AS pilots seem to) decide to use to opportunity to go for a return of scope on their end.

While it doesn't completely rule it out, it does make it much less likely.

I doubt it, if scope isn't violated and both parties vote it in, it shouldn't cost them anything... UAL could dump the 190s and take the Airbus only, done deal.

Baradium
08-06-2018, 12:07 PM
I doubt it, if scope isn't violated and both parties vote it in, it shouldn't cost them anything... UAL could dump the 190s and take the Airbus only, done deal.

Jet Blue scope requires no outside flying and United has a lot of it. The United pilots are smart enough to at least take advantage of that to get something from the company. So yes, scope would be violated unless ALPA agreed to change scope.

Jetlife
08-06-2018, 12:12 PM
Jet Blue scope requires no outside flying and United has a lot of it. The United pilots are smart enough to at least take advantage of that to get something from the company. So yes, scope would be violated unless ALPA agreed to change scope.

The no outside flying from a scope standpoint is completely irrelevant. If JB is acquired by United, they are 100% mainline and would adhere to United's scope clause.

seekingblue
08-06-2018, 12:14 PM
The no outside flying from a scope standpoint is completely irrelevant. If JB is acquired by United, they are 100% mainline and would adhere to United's scope clause.

Sort of.

We would need to get a Joint CBA (since it would be ALPA-ALPA) and that document would have scope limits.

Jetlife
08-06-2018, 12:20 PM
Sort of.

We would need to get a Joint CBA (since it would be ALPA-ALPA) and that document would have scope limits.

100% and both parties would vote to approve the JCBA. Neither party will vote in a scope violation. But the JB pilot group knows that if United bought them tomorrow, that United has regional flying. I donít think that is even a consideration on whether to buy JB or not from an added cost because of scope standpoint. UAL management could try it and hope it goes to arbitration but as we have seen, an arbitrator is not likely to mess with scope 🤣🤣

symbian simian
08-06-2018, 04:02 PM
Sort of.

We would need to get a Joint CBA (since it would be ALPA-ALPA) and that document would have scope limits.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but if you offered a UAL contract to B6 pilots, and they get to keep DOH for pay, and get stapled for seniority, I wouldn't be surprised if it passes. Don't think scope would be the major issue.

Clear Right
08-06-2018, 07:10 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but if you offered a UAL contract to B6 pilots, and they get to keep DOH for pay, and get stapled for seniority, I wouldn't be surprised if it passes. Don't think scope would be the major issue.

No way a B6 pilot would give up seniority for UAL $264/hr A320 vs B6 $259/hr A320, unless Iím missing something on pay rates? Why would you give up seniority for $5 an hour?

Klsytakesit
08-06-2018, 08:08 PM
No way a B6 pilot would give up seniority for UAL $264/hr A320 vs B6 $259/hr A320, unless Iím missing something on pay rates? Why would you give up seniority for $5 an hour?
You are...A super regional and a major international carrier with widebody pay rates and so on and so forth and such.....

symbian simian
08-06-2018, 08:36 PM
No way a B6 pilot would give up seniority for UAL $264/hr A320 vs B6 $259/hr A320, unless Iím missing something on pay rates? Why would you give up seniority for $5 an hour?

Because 5 year FO pay on the wide body is $80 more than on the 190? (I know, not a fair comparison, just like comparing your senior aircraft to their junior aircraft isnít fair)

keysersose
08-07-2018, 07:05 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but if you offered a UAL contract to B6 pilots, and they get to keep DOH for pay, and get stapled for seniority, I wouldn't be surprised if it passes. Don't think scope would be the major issue.


Not a chance. Wouldnít trade QOL for anything.

seekingblue
08-07-2018, 07:55 AM
Not a chance. Wouldnít trade QOL for anything.

Itís funny to me that this discussion is happening in the Alaska sub forumó but I digress.

Many (most) Jetblue guys re either ex regional guys like myself or they are Usair guys who got furloughed. I this this changes our perspective.

Iíve been on the other side of the fence and seen how lack of scope hurts mainline jobs and mainline QOL.

If United were to buy us, we would be an even more divided pilot group. The bottom 1/2 of the list would be overjoyed that they can upgrade and fly heavy metal. The top 1/2 would be ****ed that they are going to get shafted on seniority integration. Sort of a win/lose depending on seniority

Jetlife
08-07-2018, 08:06 AM
JB wouldnít have to give up anything. The 190 is already on the UAL payscale so if they wanted 100 seat flying on mainline they could do it, if not, dump them and you gain an Airbus fleet and lots of pilots.

Itís 2018, B scales are not coming back and UAL isnít gonna try and pull anything funny if they were to acquire JB, they know they couldnít get away with it.

I really think the scope thing is a non issue.

Flytolive
08-07-2018, 08:30 AM
If United were to buy us, we would be an even more divided pilot group. The bottom 1/2 of the list would be overjoyed that they can upgrade and fly heavy metal. The top 1/2 would be ****ed that they are going to get shafted on seniority integration. Sort of a win/lose depending on seniorityActually, that would not be the case for the vast majority of pilots. Consolidation has gone a long way to fixing the piloting profession. Also, a merger gives pilots more options of where to live and the type of flying or compensation to which they have access. One man's trash is another's treasure.

UAL + jetBlue would be be a killer, but only if the mandated divestitures wouldn't negate the advantages.

Jetlife
08-07-2018, 08:40 AM
UAL + jetBlue would be be a killer, but only if the mandated divestitures wouldn't negate the advantages.

I think in the past, this is what prevented UAL from making a move. There have been lots of rumors that UAL was eying JB and it could have all been complete crap, but I tell you what, it makes a whole lot of sense if UAL wants to expand and capture market share, at the same time as squashing JBs European hopes.

JB canít afford AS and egos canít grt pushed aside to decide what the actual airline would be. I wouldnít give a JB and AS merger much thought at all. I see UAL buying JB and I see AS getting bought by AAL or SWA, IF IF IF more acquisitions were to happen.

Packrat
08-07-2018, 12:07 PM
"If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride."

pilotpayne
08-07-2018, 01:23 PM
I think in the past, this is what prevented UAL from making a move. There have been lots of rumors that UAL was eying JB and it could have all been complete crap, but I tell you what, it makes a whole lot of sense if UAL wants to expand and capture market share, at the same time as squashing JBs European hopes.

JB canít afford AS and egos canít grt pushed aside to decide what the actual airline would be. I wouldnít give a JB and AS merger much thought at all. I see UAL buying JB and I see AS getting bought by AAL or SWA, IF IF IF more acquisitions were to happen.


Which is my carzy theory of why we have not gone with the 321lr to Europe. Itís so easy given our Bos and JFK hubs and yet they canít make up their mind on an aircraft we already fly.

O2pilot
08-07-2018, 02:24 PM
No way a B6 pilot would give up seniority for UAL $264/hr A320 vs B6 $259/hr A320, unless Iím missing something on pay rates? Why would you give up seniority for $5 an hour?

Except the top payrate at United is $338/hour (777,787,767-400). Not to mention 757-300 and 767-300 pay $282/hour. And the junior pilot flying a 787 is about 3,000 on the UAL list and the junior 756 Captain about 8,000.

Also that $264 currently at United is close to being our ďold payratesĒ since we are in Section 6 negotiations right now. Would not be surprised to see $300/hour Airbus Captains in the new contract.

O2pilot
08-07-2018, 02:28 PM
Which is my carzy theory of why we have not gone with the 321lr to Europe. Itís so easy given our Bos and JFK hubs and yet they canít make up their mind on an aircraft we already fly.

You guys just gave up the ability to fly that and let codeshare partners do it. I foresee more JB codeshare partners doing your flying, just like HA 321s are doing your flying now. Itíll just get worse.

757Driver
08-07-2018, 03:12 PM
Except the top payrate at United is $338/hour (777,787,767-400). Not to mention 757-300 and 767-300 pay $282/hour. And the junior pilot flying a 787 is about 3,000 on the UAL list and the junior 756 Captain about 8,000.

Also that $264 currently at United is close to being our “old payrates” since we are in Section 6 negotiations right now. Would not be surprised to see $300/hour Airbus Captains in the new contract.

It’s currently $272 for both the A320 and the B737.

pilotpayne
08-07-2018, 04:23 PM
You guys just gave up the ability to fly that and let codeshare partners do it. I foresee more JB codeshare partners doing your flying, just like HA 321s are doing your flying now. It’ll just get worse.

Because you don’t codeshare right? How about all those domestic flights that are not flown by mainline United. I would debate you but since this is a quote from you I will spend my time praying for a preferential interview.

If we acquired either of those train-wrecks of an airline, we’d certainly offer their pilots preferential interviews I’d think.


Anyway the good part is you and I will have no say. We are both ALPA carriers and both working under a CBA, so I’m not worried.

O2pilot
08-07-2018, 04:31 PM
Because you don’t codeshare right? How about all those domestic flights that are not flown by mainline United. I would debate you but sine this is a quote from you I will spend my time praying for a preferential interview.

Flying to Redding, Baton Rouge, Devil’s Lake, Eureka, Harlingen, etc and the 100+ small cities that United Express flies to it doesn’t make sense to fly a 150 seat Airbus into it totally smart to codeshare to those cities. Those passengers feed our mainline and allow us to be paid to fly 777s to Paris, Auckland, Sydney, London, etc. I’d trade 76 and smaller seat jets to be able to fly 777/787/767 etc all over the world. Its a fair trade off. Global airlines need the network effect of that feed. Big regionals or LCCs don’t.

pilotpayne
08-07-2018, 05:23 PM
Flying to Redding, Baton Rouge, Devilís Lake, Eureka, Harlingen, etc and the 100+ small cities that United Express flies to it doesnít make sense to fly a 150 seat Airbus into it totally smart to codeshare to those cities. Those passengers feed our mainline and allow us to be paid to fly 777s to Paris, Auckland, Sydney, London, etc. Iíd trade 76 and smaller seat jets to be able to fly 777/787/767 etc all over the world. Its a fair trade off. Global airlines need the network effect of that feed. Big regionals or LCCs donít.

Well there you go. I think a good chunk of guys that fly the domestic fleet might disagree and even ALPA what with the push on scope choke but hey as long as you can hold wide body no big deal right? You also codeshare on ďbigĒ airplanes. Hello star alliance

Clear Right
08-07-2018, 07:14 PM
Flying to Redding, Baton Rouge, Devilís Lake, Eureka, Harlingen, etc and the 100+ small cities that United Express flies to it doesnít make sense to fly a 150 seat Airbus into it totally smart to codeshare to those cities. Those passengers feed our mainline and allow us to be paid to fly 777s to Paris, Auckland, Sydney, London, etc. Iíd trade 76 and smaller seat jets to be able to fly 777/787/767 etc all over the world. Its a fair trade off. Global airlines need the network effect of that feed. Big regionals or LCCs donít.

There was a day, not long ago when B6 and SWA pilots (LCCs) made more money than UAL pilots during concessions/bankruptcies. In fact many of those ďLCC pilotsĒ were furloughed UAL pilots. My point is, some humility is not a bad thing...remember contract 2000.

We tend to judge quickly based on current contracts/circumstances, but this industry changes rapidly and pilots have little to no control.

That being said, back to the original reply, seniority is one thing IMHO that one shouldnít just give up for any price in the event of a merger just to fly a wide body. Again, my humble opinion, but some people chase the money, some quality of life. To each their own!

BKbigfish
08-08-2018, 01:10 AM
Flying to Redding, Baton Rouge, Devilís Lake, Eureka, Harlingen, etc and the 100+ small cities that United Express flies to it doesnít make sense to fly a 150 seat Airbus into it totally smart to codeshare to those cities. Those passengers feed our mainline and allow us to be paid to fly 777s to Paris, Auckland, Sydney, London, etc. Iíd trade 76 and smaller seat jets to be able to fly 777/787/767 etc all over the world. Its a fair trade off. Global airlines need the network effect of that feed. Big regionals or LCCs donít.

What percentage of mainline flying do you think is conducted by widebodies? Have we not learned anything in the past two decades? Who cares about 20,000 $125+/hr - $200+/hr gigs when you can ensure 1500 $300+/hr gigs for guys that have been on property for 20+ years amirite?!? Thatís a lot of money weíre leaving on the table to make sure a small percentage of guys make an extra $50k - $100k per year.

pilotpayne
08-08-2018, 05:00 AM
What percentage of mainline flying do you think is conducted by widebodies? Have we not learned anything in the past two decades? Who cares about 20,000 $125+/hr - $200+/hr gigs when you can ensure 1500 $300+/hr gigs for guys that have been on property for 20+ years amirite?!? Thatís a lot of money weíre leaving on the table to make sure a small percentage of guys make an extra $50k - $100k per year.


Which is why he is either just joking or has no clue about the history of airlines.

Back to the ALK stuff it seems like both of our companies are lost when it comes to a vision and running the operations. We of course are cutting costs and yet canít understand why we are have MX issues or catering issues or why the 1 and only gate agent canít do everything. Maybe we are a good match.

WHACKMASTER
08-09-2018, 10:34 AM
[QUOTE=Beta82;2649546]

ďthe jetĒ is a very common term at SWA too. Iím thinking itís because itís a jet...

No, itís because SWA is filled with kernels who have a hard time letting go of such things as their call signs, The Zoo, shooting down their wristwatch at the bar, and the term ďthe jetĒ.

Fleet Warp
08-09-2018, 11:23 AM
[QUOTE=Skyward;2649706]

No, itís because SWA is filled with kernels who have a hard time letting go of such things as their call signs, The Zoo, shooting down their wristwatch at the bar, and the term ďthe jetĒ.

You need to just fly the jet and relax brah.

tomgoodman
08-09-2018, 11:56 AM
I always wondered why our F/As spoke of going to ďJet RecurrentĒ. Who would have guessed....they are all kernels! :D

ASpilot0936
08-09-2018, 06:59 PM
You UAL boys go hijack your own threads!


I still say we're getting bought.......

FLYLOW22
08-09-2018, 10:03 PM
Delta walked away when they thought regulators wouldn't allow a merger that big.



This is 100% accurate. [emoji1303][emoji1303]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FLYLOW22
08-09-2018, 10:07 PM
It isnít just grabbing at straws. The amount of MELs we are carrying are above and beyond from what we ever carried before. WiFi and pax comfort items are being left broken, in fact I have had a few 4 day trips where 50% of the airplanes have WiFi written up, and not just the sat wifi.



Iím not saying itís a sign of being bought, to me itís a sign of the Bus going away, but if there is an acquisition, we will look back at this and it will be obvious that something was going on in hind sight.



Taking down a bunch of planes at once to paint in any month seems silly. Postponing all aircraft painting for what, 6 months now, has put them on an even tighter schedule to get it done (donít forget that there is a royalty fee and deadline to get this livery off the planes). Meanwhile 737s are going down every month to get decals applied and new paint jobs. Iím not a conspiracy theorist at all, but to me it clearly indicates something. What that something is, we wonít know until we see it on the news.



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180810/1c9b87793351c065dc9acd7b3f0c2613.gif


Now... youíre starting to see it.

Yesssss.


JetLife would narrate a constrictor choking him to death and somehow make it sound sexy. To him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Myfingershurt
08-10-2018, 08:43 PM
[QUOTE=Beta82;2649546]

ďthe jetĒ is a very common term at SWA too. Iím thinking itís because itís a jet...

Say you own a Ferrari and every time you leave the house to go for a drive you announce, Iím taking my Ferrari for a drive instead of simply saying Iím taking the car for a ride. Using ďthe jetĒ vs the aircraft or the plane is pompous.

IFlyNFish
08-10-2018, 09:23 PM
Except the top payrate at United is $338/hour (777,787,767-400). Not to mention 757-300 and 767-300 pay $282/hour. And the junior pilot flying a 787 is about 3,000 on the UAL list and the junior 756 Captain about 8,000.

Also that $264 currently at United is close to being our ďold payratesĒ since we are in Section 6 negotiations right now. Would not be surprised to see $300/hour Airbus Captains in the new contract.




What relevance does this have? Sorry but what are YOUR pay rates and overrides? Who cares what bigger or different equipment other people fly? What do you have and what did YOU negotiate to fly there? Thatís all that matters. Oh, and how are your ticket sales and cargo both ways? Pretty sure all the equipment you mentioned are all larger and already have those networks established.

IFlyNFish
08-10-2018, 09:26 PM
I always wondered why our F/As spoke of going to ďJet RecurrentĒ. Who would have guessed....they are all kernels! :D



I need some ďkernalsĒ as I watch this talk about the ďcolonelsĒ.

av8or
08-11-2018, 09:04 AM
[QUOTE=Skyward;2649706]

Say you own a Ferrari and every time you leave the house to go for a drive you announce, Iím taking my Ferrari for a drive instead of simply saying Iím taking the car for a ride. Using ďthe jetĒ vs the aircraft or the plane is pompous.

Oh good lord..... seriously? THIS??!! This is a discussion worth having? I could care less... honestly. As far as Iím concerned you can say.... ďI have the Poptart.Ē Or ... ďmy thingamajig...Ē whatever.

Bigger fish to fry. Priorities.

Baradium
08-11-2018, 10:00 AM
Say you own a Ferrari and every time you leave the house to go for a drive you announce, Iím taking my Ferrari for a drive instead of simply saying Iím taking the car for a ride. Using ďthe jetĒ vs the aircraft or the plane is pompous.

Saying "the jet" is the equivalent of saying "the car" in terms of meaning. It's like saying "the car" or "the truck" if you have one of each vs saying "the automobile." Your analogy didn't mean what you thought it meant...

Flitestar
08-11-2018, 02:56 PM
Who the he!! cares? Good gawd... :facepalm:

450knotOffice
08-11-2018, 04:48 PM
Who the he!! cares? Good gawd... :facepalm:

Right?! ALL because some poster here decided to call out another for using the term "the jet" a few pages back. "Hall monitor" was his junior high profession I guess. :rolleyes:

Klsytakesit
08-11-2018, 05:56 PM
let me shed some light on this moronic conversation. It is a history lesson for you wounded children. At Alaska ďThe JetĒis a term coined by the people of the small towns and villages across Alaska. ie.. Has the Jet landed yet or are you taking the Jet to town or the Jet didnt make it in or a hundred other examples used daily. Picked up by pilots and faís and used in daily conversations. Of course the term found its way into the training department 30 years ago and has been handed down unintentionally over the years. The SEA base with and excess of tool bags(as one might expect) seems to over-use the term. the end

Ispeakjive
08-11-2018, 06:00 PM
My jet is bigger than your jet.

KnockKnock
08-11-2018, 07:06 PM
let me shed some light on this moronic conversation. It is a history lesson for you wounded children. At Alaska ďThe JetĒis a term coined by the people of the small towns and villages across Alaska. ie.. Has the Jet landed yet or are you taking the Jet to town or the Jet didnt make it in or a hundred other examples used daily. Picked up by pilots and faís and used in daily conversations. Of course the term found its way into the training department 30 years ago and has been handed down unintentionally over the years. The SEA base with and excess of tool bags(as one might expect) seems to over-use the term. the end
I’d venture a guess that no one in Alaska, the state or the airline “coined” the term “The Jet”. You’re explanation doesn’t shed light on why other airlines use the same terminology. Us lowly Alaska pilots don’t have nearly enough influence to shape the linguistic stylings of other pilots at other companies. I like your confidence though.

ExFokkerFlyer
08-11-2018, 09:17 PM
Iíd venture a guess that no one in Alaska, the state or the airline ďcoinedĒ the term ďThe JetĒ. Youíre explanation doesnít shed light on why other airlines use the same terminology. Us lowly Alaska pilots donít have nearly enough influence to shape the linguistic stylings of other pilots at other companies. I like your confidence though.

Nobody... and I mean NOBODY uses that phrase on the Ďbus unless itís in jest.

Perhaps thatís how future generations of Alaska (or Jetblue, Southwest, Delta, etc) will distinguish VX pilots from AS.

450knotOffice
08-11-2018, 09:40 PM
Those who are calling out the people who say ďthe jetĒ are Virtue Signaling. Theyíre basically saying Hey, Iím morally superior to you because Iím humble enough to say ďthe planeĒ versus you arrogant types who feel the need to say ďthe jetĒ.

Whatever. I guess you folks need something to make you feel like youíre better than the next guy.

The JET, or The PLANE. WGAF?!

Fleet Warp
08-12-2018, 01:15 AM
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ADaRp-S_nso/hqdefault.jpg

KnockKnock
08-12-2018, 06:56 AM
Nobody... and I mean NOBODY uses that phrase on the Ďbus unless itís in jest.

Perhaps thatís how future generations of Alaska (or Jetblue, Southwest, Delta, etc) will distinguish VX pilots from AS.
That’s because the Airbus is more of a toy than a Jet.... :) I’m gonna start saying “the Jet”, so everyone from here on out knows that I’m an “original” Alaska pilot...... Honestly, who cares? We at AS must be pretty well off if all we can scrounge up to squabble about is the use of the term, “the Jet”. We all know this ain’t true so let’s get over this. I fly with guys that say things I wouldn’t say all the time. I don’t whine about it and I don’t act as if what I say is superior to what they say. B n B are probably reading this thread and laughing so effin hard right now about upcoming negotiations.

VirginEskimo
08-12-2018, 08:12 AM
When Iím flying the 321 Iím going to start saying ďyouíve got the geared turbofanĒ

Nobody... and I mean NOBODY uses that phrase on the Ďbus unless itís in jest.

Perhaps thatís how future generations of Alaska (or Jetblue, Southwest, Delta, etc) will distinguish VX pilots from AS.

Fleet Warp
08-12-2018, 08:22 AM
Nobody... and I mean NOBODY uses that phrase on the Ďbus unless itís in jest.

Perhaps thatís how future generations of Alaska (or Jetblue, Southwest, Delta, etc) will distinguish VX pilots from AS.

The irony of dude calling an Airbus "the bus" while crying about another dude calling a jet, "the jet." Simply the most entertaining thread all week

Packrat
08-12-2018, 10:38 AM
Nobody... and I mean NOBODY uses that phrase on the Ďbus unless itís in jest. .

You'll all be on the "Jet" sooner than later, so prepare to be absorbed by the Borg.

greatlake
08-12-2018, 11:13 AM
Alaska will never be bought by one of the big 3. They will merge with a smaller or possibly Southwest.

Virgalask330
08-12-2018, 01:21 PM
Alaska will never be bought by one of the big 3. They will merge with a smaller or possibly Southwest.

Ok do you have any facts or precedence that youíre basing this blanket statement on?
This site provides all past mergers-

http://airlines.org/dataset/u-s-airline-mergers-and-acquisitions/

greatlake
08-12-2018, 02:47 PM
Ok do you have any facts or precedence that youíre basing this blanket statement on?
This site provides all past mergers-

http://airlines.org/dataset/u-s-airline-mergers-and-acquisitions/
I just don't see the government, whatever party in power, allowing a merger of that size. Nobody knows for sure and I'm just basing my guess off of articles written by analyst. Most work groups would probably enjoy getting taken over by the top 4 as the Alaska wants their workers number 5 in pay.

MusicPilot
08-12-2018, 05:08 PM
Alaska wants their workers number 5 in pay.

Some of their workers. Their slope preference isnít really favorable for a #5 carrier.

Clear Right
08-12-2018, 06:23 PM
Some of their workers. Their slope preference isnít really favorable for a #5 carrier.

AS $259, B6 $259, WN $258

What am I missing? They are all essentially the same. Maybe some work rules and duty rigs help one vs the other, but the basic rates are equal???

conquestdz
08-12-2018, 06:48 PM
AS $259, B6 $259, WN $258

What am I missing? They are all essentially the same. Maybe some work rules and duty rigs help one vs the other, but the basic rates are equal???

Don't brush away the value of work rules so easily. When you compare W2's and how much time pilots at each airline are away from the home to generate that income, the differences become stark.

NotTellin
08-12-2018, 07:20 PM
don't brush away the value of work rules so easily. When you compare w2's and how much time pilots at each airline are away from the home to generate that income, the differences become stark.

^^^^this right here!^^^^

Klsytakesit
08-12-2018, 09:59 PM
We essentially get paid by block time and straight hourly. No enhancements, no overides, no extras. If you credit 80 hrs in a month, you likely blocked 80 hrs. Which is why Delta and SWA foís out earn Alaska captains.

Bluedriver
08-13-2018, 11:08 AM
I just don't see the government, whatever party in power, allowing a merger of that size. Nobody knows for sure and I'm just basing my guess off of articles written by analyst. Most work groups would probably enjoy getting taken over by the top 4 as the Alaska wants their workers number 5 in pay.

This administration would allow ANY merger. Blocking mergers is for consumer protection, that's not a R/Trump priority in my opinion.

OTZeagle1
08-13-2018, 11:23 AM
This is garbage... made $317k last year no perduim or 401k included. Have made $248k so far this year, $350-370k by the end of the year. I live in base, never less then 15 days off. Grow up! I have a couple buddies at SWA that are FOís... they do not make anything close to me.

ShyGuy
08-13-2018, 11:26 AM
This is garbage... made 317 last year no perduim or 401k included. Have made 248 so far this year, 350-370 by the end of the year. I live in base, never less then 15 days off. Grow up!

The resident troll is back. :rolleyes:

DelTacoBowl
08-13-2018, 11:28 AM
This administration blocked or attempted to block the Broadcom/Qualcom and AT&T/Time Warner

This administration would allow ANY merger. Blocking mergers is for consumer protection, that's not a R/Trump priority in my opinion.

Ala5ka
08-13-2018, 12:11 PM
You also seem like the type of person the company loves to have when they need a hand This is garbage... made $317k last year no perduim or 401k included. Have made $248k so far this year, $350-370k by the end of the year. I live in base, never less then 15 days off. Grow up! I have a couple buddies at SWA that are FOís... they do not make anything close to me.

slainTZwarrior
08-13-2018, 12:43 PM
Perhaps thatís how future generations of Alaska (or Jetblue, Southwest, Delta, etc) will distinguish VX pilots from AS.

You can tell the difference today. Legacy AS employees wear their ID horizontal and the legacy VX wear their ID vertical.

greatlake
08-13-2018, 01:31 PM
This administration would allow ANY merger. Blocking mergers is for consumer protection, that's not a R/Trump priority in my opinion.
This adminstration might not be in office in 2 years. And I don't think anyone will want to take on AS/VX until the dust has settled. From what I've heard this merger has been harder than expected. I can't see BT/BM wanting to go through it again with another merger.

rickair7777
08-13-2018, 02:20 PM
This adminstration might not be in office in 2 years. And I don't think anyone will want to take on AS/VX until the dust has settled. From what I've heard this merger has been harder than expected. I can't see BT/BM wanting to go through it again with another merger.

Anyone who's serious about a big, boundary-pushing merger (in any industry) will initiate it in less than 12 months, to ensure they have the best chance at approval before any potential regime change.

greatlake
08-13-2018, 04:27 PM
Anyone who's serious about a big, boundary-pushing merger (in any industry) will initiate it in less than 12 months, to ensure they have the best chance at approval before any potential regime change.
I would bet on no airline merger in the next couple years. I think Alaska management has a bad taste in their mouth. I don't think BM will be the next CEO either.

rickair7777
08-13-2018, 04:43 PM
I would bet on no airline merger in the next couple years. I think Alaska management has a bad taste in their mouth. I don't think BM will be the next CEO either.

I would agree, although it might not be up to them.

Beta82
08-13-2018, 06:35 PM
[QUOTE=Myfingershurt;2652971]

Oh good lord..... seriously? THIS??!! This is a discussion worth having? I could care less... honestly. As far as I’m concerned you can say.... “I have the Poptart.” Or ... “my thingamajig...” whatever.

Bigger fish to fry. Priorities.

WAIT... There are guys on the line that tell each other. "I have THE jet"/ "You have the THE jet?"

LMAO This is hilarious! You big jet pilots you! Not the hallway monitor, just trying to save someone the embarrassment in the future.

P.S. We need better work rules. What are we, number 7 now?

tomgoodman
08-13-2018, 07:25 PM
[QUOTE=av8or;2653211]

WAIT... There are guys on the line that tell each other. "I have THE jet"/ "You have the THE jet?"



That would be an incorrect statement, since it implies that no other jets exist. ďI have a jetĒ would be correct, but unhelpful. One must therefore say ďI have this jetĒ, while tapping the glareshield with an index finger. :D

waterboy
08-13-2018, 10:02 PM
This is garbage... made $317k last year no perduim or 401k included. Have made $248k so far this year, $350-370k by the end of the year. I live in base, never less then 15 days off. Grow up! I have a couple buddies at SWA that are FOís... they do not make anything close to me.

Doing some quick math, $248k YTD, means you have been making on avg. $35,428.57 per month. If you break that down by the month, assuming you are at the top of the scale, you are crediting 137 hours per. Yet you donít work more than 16 days a month. Do tell how you are doing this. Iím really curious.

Fleet Warp
08-13-2018, 11:57 PM
Doing some quick math, $248k YTD, means you have been making on avg. $35,428.57 per month. If you break that down by the month, assuming you are at the top of the scale, you are crediting 137 hours per. Yet you donít work more than 16 days a month. Do tell how you are doing this. Iím really curious.

His side job, as a street performer.;)

conquestdz
08-14-2018, 04:14 AM
This is garbage... made $317k last year no perduim or 401k included. Have made $248k so far this year, $350-370k by the end of the year. I live in base, never less then 15 days off. Grow up! I have a couple buddies at SWA that are FOís... they do not make anything close to me.

Would you say that the opportunity to make this kind of credit with that number of days off is a realistic opportunity for a large part of the pilot group, or just a small portion with very high seniority in each seat and base?

If it's really only available for 20 to 50 pilots system wide who hold the top few numbers in each seat and base, your own experience doesn't amount to much for the rest of us.

For numbers like that to have any relevance, the work rules need to allow a large portion of the pilot group to be able to achieve this kind of credit and days of if they choose, not just the few ultra senior.

Outdoors
08-14-2018, 05:51 AM
Doing some quick math, $248k YTD, means you have been making on avg. $35,428.57 per month. If you break that down by the month, assuming you are at the top of the scale, you are crediting 137 hours per. Yet you donít work more than 16 days a month. Do tell how you are doing this. Iím really curious.

Heís wasting your time...

flywest
08-14-2018, 06:51 AM
The JET or the BUS. Has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. So why the complaining. Lots of things have nicknames, call the planes what you want. Focus on something that matters.

Bluedriver
08-14-2018, 06:58 AM
This administration blocked or attempted to block the Broadcom/Qualcom and AT&T/Time Warner

In my honest opinion, an *attempted* block is for the dog-and-pony show. Makes then look good, while still ultimately letting it go through.

KnockKnock
08-14-2018, 07:20 AM
[QUOTE=av8or;2653211]

WAIT... There are guys on the line that tell each other. "I have THE jet"/ "You have the THE jet?"

LMAO This is hilarious! You big jet pilots you! Not the hallway monitor, just trying to save someone the embarrassment in the future.

P.S. We need better work rules. What are we, number 7 now?
The fact that you care what people call something is whatís embarrassing. Do you think youíre too cool for anything? Do you sit in the back of your ďBusĒ because thatís where the cool pilots sit? Get your head in the game and focus on real sh!t that matters.

ForeverJunior
08-14-2018, 08:59 AM
The JET or the BUS. Has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. So why the complaining. Lots of things have nicknames, call the planes what you want. Focus on something that matters.

THIS!

Scope, scheduling, pay, slope, retirement, health insurance... way more important than pet peeves and, believe me, I have many myself. 😁

OTZeagle1
08-14-2018, 09:10 AM
Heís wasting your time...

This tells everyone how stupid you are

108x 259 = 223,776
Plus 24,500 bonus
= what

I am not even trying. I pick up a premium trip here or there. Still have a great quality of life. Last year I picked up a lot more premium to make 317.

OTZeagle1
08-14-2018, 09:15 AM
Would you say that the opportunity to make this kind of credit with that number of days off is a realistic opportunity for a large part of the pilot group, or just a small portion with very high seniority in each seat and base?

If it's really only available for 20 to 50 pilots system wide who hold the top few numbers in each seat and base, your own experience doesn't amount to much for the rest of us.

For numbers like that to have any relevance, the work rules need to allow a large portion of the pilot group to be able to achieve this kind of credit and days of if they choose, not just the few ultra senior.

Anyone can make this kind of money. Some might have to go down to 13-14 days off others can do it at 15-17 days off.

I have friends that will push close to 400 this year. I think one for sure will be over.

Ala5ka
08-14-2018, 10:28 AM
I knew it. Thanks for your help. Alaska couldnít do it without you, keep up the great work. There is no I in team. This tells everyone how stupid you are

108x 259 = 223,776
Plus 24,500 bonus
= what

I am not even trying. I pick up a premium trip here or there. Still have a great quality of life. Last year I picked up a lot more premium to make 317.

av8or
08-14-2018, 10:36 AM
Anyone can make this kind of money. Some might have to go down to 13-14 days off others can do it at 15-17 days off.

I have friends that will push close to 400 this year. I think one for sure will be over.

Preciate the heads up!
ďAnyone can make this kind of money.Ē
One word - ďdelusionalĒ. But thatís ok, cause you and the rest are just as much an enemy of a great contract (the normal defininition, not just one that benefits you) as is BM. Clearly heís not the only person on the property ďwilling to sacrifice the relationship with the pilot groupĒ to get whatís best for himself.

To all the rest of us.... Bus and Boeing pilots.... we need to get creative. Shame.... whether directed at the company or pilots like OTZ, can be a powerful tool. Lotta fat hogs in the barn. Time to fire up the smokehouse.

NotTellin
08-14-2018, 10:39 AM
Anyone can make this kind of money. Some might have to go down to 13-14 days off others can do it at 15-17 days off.

I have friends that will push close to 400 this year. I think one for sure will be over.

You and your ďfriendsĒ are the problem.

OTZeagle1
08-14-2018, 10:55 AM
You and your ďfriendsĒ are the problem.

Why?
Because I love it when I get to trade a two day at straight time for a 3 day at premium?
Or
Because I live in base and can be flexible
Or
Because I take the best advantage I can of each contract

How do you think your buddies at Delta American United or Southwest make so much money 💰. Oh thatís right they are flying 72 hours at straight time. Do the math you moron, they are all taking advantage their contracts. My friends at southwest being some of the most creative.

av8or
08-14-2018, 11:29 AM
Why?
Because I love it when I get to trade a two day at straight time for a 3 day at premium?
Or
Because I live in base and can be flexible
Or
Because I take the best advantage I can of each contract

How do you think your buddies at Delta American United or Southwest make so much money 💰. Oh thatís right they are flying 72 hours at straight time. Do the math you moron, they are all taking advantage their contracts. My friends at southwest being some of the most creative.

We acknowledge that with seniority comes privileges. Nobody should begrudge you that. However, everyone on the seniority list also acknowledges that senior pilots flying premium figures SIGNIFICANTLY into their staffing model. And, everyone also acknowledges that, if the senior pilots who regularly help facilitate this model were to voluntarily cut back or stop doing so, it would be a significant point of pressure for contractual change. We also realize that apparently, those like yourselves were unwilling to leverage that pressure to help apply this pressure, and instead just point the finger at Kasher, BM, essential service to Alaska etc. And I get it. Youíre there. At the top. Working the system. Making it rain. Why WOULD you leverage that to help a contract more equitable? Maybe you would because at the end of negotiations you could make the same working less. Maybe you would because you believe slope, scope and work rules should be equitable across the ENTIRE contract, for all the pilots.

For that to even be a remote possibility youíd have to believe in the power and unity of our union and itís ability to deliver a powerful new contract, which, if youíre like most other seniors here, you prob donít. And apparently, for historically good reason. Kasher neutered this union and yíall havenít been the same since.

OTZeagle1
08-14-2018, 12:19 PM
We acknowledge that with seniority comes privileges. Nobody should begrudge you that. However, everyone on the seniority list also acknowledges that senior pilots flying premium figures SIGNIFICANTLY into their staffing model. And, everyone also acknowledges that, if the senior pilots who regularly help facilitate this model were to voluntarily cut back or stop doing so, it would be a significant point of pressure for contractual change. We also realize that apparently, those like yourselves were unwilling to leverage that pressure to help apply this pressure, and instead just point the finger at Kasher, BM, essential service to Alaska etc. And I get it. Youíre there. At the top. Working the system. Making it rain. Why WOULD you leverage that to help a contract more equitable? Maybe you would because at the end of negotiations you could make the same working less. Maybe you would because you believe slope, scope and work rules should be equitable across the ENTIRE contract, for all the pilots.

For that to even be a remote possibility youíd have to believe in the power and unity of our union and itís ability to deliver a powerful new contract, which, if youíre like most other seniors here, you prob donít. And apparently, for historically good reason. Kasher neutered this union and yíall havenít been the same since.

So you put this all in writing for Alaska legal? 😲 I am sure that this will help the union in 2020. You know premium pickups are almost equal across all seniority percentages. My seniority might surprise you and my age would most definitely shock you.
Your right I donít care about slope, scope, or commutable trips. I wouldnít give up a dollar an hour for all three. Our union sucks! Check back in three years we will have no slope no change to commutability of trips, maybe scope. This is a pretty good company and a great place to work!

Baradium
08-14-2018, 12:20 PM
Maybe you would because you believe slope, scope and work rules should be equitable across the ENTIRE contract, for all the pilots.


Not an Alaska guy, but it did somewhat amuse me that you appealed for scope to one of the guys who still says it's not worth negotiating for at all.

av8or
08-14-2018, 12:29 PM
So you put this all in writing for Alaska legal? 😲 I am sure that this will help the union in 2020. You know premium pickups are almost equal across all seniority percentages. My seniority might surprise you and my age would most definitely shock you.
Your right I donít care about slope, scope, or commutable trips. I wouldnít give up a dollar an hour for all three. Our union sucks! Check back in three years we will have no slope no change to commutability of trips, maybe scope. This is a pretty good company and a great place to work!

Dude if you think one guy, not in union leadership, saying something obvious but in no way calling for a job action constitutes grounds for a lawsuit, youíre out of your mind. The UNION has to suggest a job action not just some random poster on a public message board.

But, the rest of your statement is perfectly clarifying. You clearly either donít trust the union to have your back, (understandable given the past) OR, youíve decided that it wouldnít matter if they did, youíre unwilling to leverage your position for contract that would benefit anyone but you. I sincerely appreciate that level of candor. At least youíre honest about it.

FTR....I never said itís not a pretty good company, or that that it wasnít a great place to work. I agree with both statements. It could be better. Hopefully weíll get there without ya. 😉

Packrat
08-14-2018, 12:45 PM
I knew it. Thanks for your help. Alaska couldn’t do it without you, keep up the great work. There is no I in team.

But there is a me.

But seriously, guys scream "Fly the contract!" but when a guy like OTZ legally uses the provisions in the contract, they give him Shiite.

Flying the contract means flying ALL the contract even if you personally don't like some of the provisions. We used to have F/Os in SEA who would time out with 1000 hours in November while doing everything strictly by the contract book. F/Os, not senior Capts.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

waterboy
08-14-2018, 01:27 PM
This tells everyone how stupid you are

108x 259 = 223,776
Plus 24,500 bonus
= what

I am not even trying. I pick up a premium trip here or there. Still have a great quality of life. Last year I picked up a lot more premium to make 317.

My seniority might surprise you and my age would most definitely shock you.


Your pay would lead me to believe you are at the top of the seniority list, in the 55+ years old range. But your name calling and childish behavior has you pegged at 6, maybe 8 years old max.

And if you plan on replying, save your energy. Because I can hear "I know you are, but what am I" at my local playground.

av8or
08-14-2018, 01:31 PM
But there is a me.

But seriously, guys scream "Fly the contract!" but when a guy like OTZ legally uses the provisions in the contract, they give him Shiite.

Flying the contract means flying ALL the contract even if you personally don't like some of the provisions. We used to have F/Os in SEA who would time out with 1000 hours in November while doing everything strictly by the contract book. F/Os, not senior Capts.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Iím not givin him shiite about it. Heís well within his prerogative to make the most of the current contract. For the most junior the contract provides a narrow band of opportunity to maximize financial and QOL provisions. The mid range provides a wider range to do so. And the top provides an even wider margin to do so. As it is with all contracts.

If a great contract is to be won the tip of the spear is always the upper middle and senior most pilots willing to make temporal sacrifice on behalf of the junior pilots for the potential reward that ALL will come out ahead in the end. But it requires two key components: A. Trust in the wisdom, resolve and unity of the union leadership and negotiators. B. A willingness to leverage some of their personal contractual maximization (which they are indeed entitled to) for a short term to get a better contract for everybody. OTZ has made it clear that neither of those principles exist for him, and so heís gonna operate accordingly.

Whether or not he would operate differently if he actually had faith in our union, I have no idea. But, with the history of union leadership/company cronieism at Alaska, its totally understandable why heís like ďF it!!! While yíall chase your tails ďnegotiating a better contract, I believe Iíll just maximize the current one.Ē It all begins with the leadership. The company has done an amazing job at exploiting that one. OTZ isnít the problem. Heís a byproduct of the problem.

lowflying
08-14-2018, 02:18 PM
Your right I donít care about slope, scope, or commutable trips. I wouldnít give up a dollar an hour for all three. Our union sucks! Check back in three years we will have no slope no change to commutability of trips, maybe scope. This is a pretty good company and a great place to work!

So by your logic the junior guys should offer to give away the pension plan because it doesnít affect us?

Your right our union sucks [email protected] and if you want know why go look in the mirror.

OTZeagle1
08-14-2018, 03:09 PM
Your pay would lead me to believe you are at the top of the seniority list, in the 55+ years old range. But your name calling and childish behavior has you pegged at 6, maybe 8 years old max.

And if you plan on replying, save your energy. Because I can hear "I know you are, but what am I" at my local playground.

Early 40ís and 30 percentile

symbian simian
08-14-2018, 04:17 PM
This tells everyone how stupid you are

108x 259 = 223,776
Plus 24,500 bonus
= what

I am not even trying. I pick up a premium trip here or there. Still have a great quality of life. Last year I picked up a lot more premium to make 317.

Actually 108 x 259 = 27,972.....

OTZeagle1
08-14-2018, 04:36 PM
But your name calling and childish behavior has you pegged at 6, maybe 8 years old max.


My wife tells me she is married to a 12 year old. You are probably not far off. She seems to like me on the boat though!

av8or
08-14-2018, 05:23 PM
http://https://beatofhawaii.com/southwest-hawaii-airline-update/

For anyone curious.... what a plan looks like.

ExFokkerFlyer
08-14-2018, 05:41 PM
The irony of dude calling an Airbus "the bus" while crying about another dude calling a jet, "the jet." Simply the most entertaining thread all week

You guys are funny. I must have struck a nerve though, I never weighed in on if/how I viewed the terminology. But somebody else defended the use by saying other airlines do... VX doesnít/didnít, thatís all I was pointing out. End of statement. A few seemed to get a little upset.

Itís a job. Call the stupid thing a jet, bus, a set of twig and berries... Truth is we are still undervalued schmucks working for a substandard company with a substandard contract with mix matched aircraft, paint, livery, interiors, uniforms, and stupid clip-on ties. Do the job, go home without bending metal or having to do a carpet dance and call it good.

Alaska from the JCBA has tried to play us all against each other and it has worked. Virgin did that very well too... smaller group, smaller issues, but same result. We never got together and worked as one until a perceived slight with the IPO. That took what 8 years?

Letís not take that long. They are the enemy. Not each other.

OTZeagle1
08-14-2018, 06:20 PM
http://https://beatofhawaii.com/southwest-hawaii-airline-update/

For anyone curious.... what a plan looks like.

They are hiring if you feel so strongly... I bet It would be a great job! I donít think SWA has any unhappy pilots, it is the great utopian society, perfect in fact!

Ala5ka
08-14-2018, 06:23 PM
That is just reckless. How could they continue with their plan to grow in this climate? The smart play would have been to announce they are slowing the growth to one Hawaii flight to test the market and outsource. Reckless. http://https://beatofhawaii.com/southwest-hawaii-airline-update/

For anyone curious.... what a plan looks like.

Packrat
08-14-2018, 07:07 PM
Av8or,

I get what you're saying, but you aren't negotiating a contract right now. So to criticize someone who is choosing to "make hay while the sun shines" is pretty juvenile on your part. Jealous much?

I'd encourage him to pick up all the open time he can...now. When Section Six opens, I'd hope he'd stop for the good of the whole. That's what working to book is all about.

You may all be too young to remember this, but once upon a time Delta had come to rely on green slip flying. So much that upwards of 15% of their flying was done that way. The pilots stopped picking up trips and the company was forced to the table. Of course, it was individual decisions (grass roots) that started it. Unlike APA, DALPA didn't encourage it in any way the company could prove.

So let OTZ fly the contract. Hopefully he'll stash enough cash he can stop when the contract cycle comes around. Then watch the Anglers twist in the wind when they can't get guys to pick up time. It's amusing to say the least.

The only caveat to that theory would be if there are pilots on furlough. In that case, picking up Open Time really is hurting someone personally.

av8or
08-14-2018, 07:21 PM
They are hiring if you feel so strongly... I bet It would be a great job! I donít think SWA has any unhappy pilots, it is the great utopian society, perfect in fact!

Hey jacka$$.... I said it was a plan.... not utopia. Besides.... wouldnít want to pass up the chance to fly with YOU!!! 😂 A chance to sit in your presence.... I mean... thatís gotta be priceless. The stock tips alone should be priceless!! Seriously... can hardly wait!!!

av8or
08-14-2018, 07:33 PM
Av8or,

I get what you're saying, but you aren't negotiating a contract right now. So to criticize someone who is choosing to "make hay while the sun shines" is pretty juvenile on your part. Jealous much?

I'd encourage him to pick up all the open time he can...now. When Section Six opens, I'd hope he'd stop for the good of the whole. That's what working to book is all about.

You may all be too young to remember this, but once upon a time Delta had come to rely on green slip flying. So much that upwards of 15% of their flying was done that way. The pilots stopped picking up trips and the company was forced to the table. Of course, it was individual decisions (grass roots) that started it. Unlike APA, DALPA didn't encourage it in any way the company could prove.

So let OTZ fly the contract. Hopefully he'll stash enough cash he can stop when the contract cycle comes around. Then watch the Anglers twist in the wind when they can't get guys to pick up time. It's amusing to say the least.

The only caveat to that theory would be if there are pilots on furlough. In that case, picking up Open Time really is hurting someone personally.

First.... lemme make this clear..... Iím not jealous of OTZ ... at ALL! I have ZERO problem with OTZ maximizing his potential.

Second.... from my understanding we are scheduled to start negotiations in April of 2019. And, Iím just stating some facts about staffing models everyone seems to acknowledge are true. What individuals do with that information is up to them. If history is any indication, what theyíll do at Alaska is... nothing different.

Third... if you didnít read his response.... heís made it CRYSTAL clear, he has ZERO intention of making a potential sacrifice to get a better contract. Not now. Not ever. Which, again I find remarkably refreshing! What part of ďI donít care about scope, slope or work rulesĒ... was confusing?

OTZeagle1
08-14-2018, 07:45 PM
First.... lemme make this clear..... Iím not jealous of OTZ ... at ALL! I have ZERO problem with OTZ maximizing his potential.

Second.... from my understanding we are scheduled to start negotiations in April of 2019. And, Iím just stating some facts about staffing models everyone seems to acknowledge are true. What individuals do with that information is up to them. If history is any indication, what theyíll do at Alaska is... nothing different.

Third... if you didnít read his response.... heís made it CRYSTAL clear, he has ZERO intention of making a potential sacrifice to get a better contract. Not now. Not ever. Which, again I find remarkably refreshing! What part of ďI donít care about scope, slope or work rulesĒ... was confusing?


Well that is putting words in my mouth. I said ďI donít care about commutabilityĒ, just like you donít care about the number of turn lines. But yes, I care about scheduling... I want a 6hr per day guarantee, I want holiday pay, override for backside flying, no preferential bidding, and 200% premium pick up.

Check back and see what I pick up summer of 2020. Our contract expires March 31, 2020.

OTZeagle1
08-14-2018, 08:03 PM
Hey jacka$$.... I said it was a plan.... not utopia. Besides.... wouldnít want to pass up the chance to fly with YOU!!! 😂 A chance to sit in your presence.... I mean... thatís gotta be priceless. The stock tips alone should be priceless!! Seriously... can hardly wait!!!

You laugh, but I guarantee you would enjoy flying with me. I never talk about the boat, donít talk money or politics. I let you fly how you like to fly, and treat you like the professional pilot you are.

av8or
08-14-2018, 08:16 PM
Well that is putting words in my mouth. I said ďI donít care about commutabilityĒ, just like you donít care about the number of turn lines. But yes, I care about scheduling... I want a 6hr per day guarantee, I want holiday pay, override for backside flying, no preferential bidding, and 200% premium pick up.

Check back and see what I pick up summer of 2020. Our contract expires March 31, 2020.

😂😂😂 This truly is awesome. You and BM, with his ďweíll absolutely sacrifice our relationship with the pilotsĒ.... statement. I genuinely love the transparency of it all. Any chance we could get yíall in a cage match? Not physically.... maybe just one where yíall both just debate who is smarter, wealthier and has the coolest toys.

OTZeagle1
08-14-2018, 08:23 PM
😂😂😂 This truly is awesome. You and BM, with his ďweíll absolutely sacrifice our relationship with the pilotsĒ.... statement. I genuinely love the transparency of it all. Any chance we could get yíall in a cage match? Not physically.... maybe just one where yíall both just debate who is smarter, wealthier and has the coolest toys.

Sure put us in a cage. Just donít make me ride bikes with him again... honestly, on a bike, he is a thumper. I would destroy him in a cage though.

Klsytakesit
08-14-2018, 08:49 PM
in my 19 almost 20 yrs Alaska Airlines has never stopped negotiating against us. As the most self-centered selfish pilot group in ALPA we have never pulled our heads out of the trough long enough to be unified against the daily assault against us by Alaska Airlines. If we ever signed a contract that was worth the paper it was written on it would be a different story. Picking up from each other is good. From open time....never

av8or
08-14-2018, 09:20 PM
Sure put us in a cage. Just donít make me ride bikes with him again... honestly, on a bike, he is a thumper. I would destroy him in a cage though.

😂😂😂 Iíll contact The Mirage in the morning. 👍🏼

GuppyPuppy
08-15-2018, 05:38 AM
Sooo....is Alaska getting bought?

Gup

flysnoopy76
08-15-2018, 05:55 AM
Sooo....is Alaska getting bought?

Gup

Not in the near term, lots of wishful thinking, and rumors.

Flynndawg
08-15-2018, 10:05 AM
in my 19 almost 20 yrs Alaska Airlines has never stopped negotiating against us. As the most self-centered selfish pilot group in ALPA we have never pulled our heads out of the trough long enough to be unified against the daily assault against us by Alaska Airlines. If we ever signed a contract that was worth the paper it was written on it would be a different story. Picking up from each other is good. From open time....never

I have picked up from other Pilots only to find out they only drop to pick up premium. Not hard to figure out once you start looking at the Captains doing the dropping. I will only pick up or trade with people O know now.

Riverside
08-15-2018, 10:05 AM
Must be pretty bad if there is an Alaska FO interviewing at K4.

Saltlife85
08-15-2018, 10:21 AM
We also have FOís leaving to Envoy Air for direct captain spots.

OCCP
08-15-2018, 10:23 AM
We also have FOís leaving to Envoy Air for direct captain spots.



But BM said this merger is about growth! What a joke of a company

ShyGuy
08-15-2018, 10:29 AM
If youíre a FO in your 20s or 30s, youíd be a fool to stay here. With the exception of PDX (and even that may be on the chopping block), all other AS bases are available at the big 3 pax and big 2 cargo. The big 3 retirement numbers alone justify the jump. I donít know why young FOs would stay here.

rickair7777
08-15-2018, 10:40 AM
But BM said this merger is about growth! What a joke of a company

I think it was about growth... specifically growth at B6.

EskimoJoe
08-15-2018, 01:13 PM
We also have FOís leaving to Envoy Air for direct captain spots.

Good. I donít want to fly with any F.Oís that fking stupid. Adios!

ShyGuy
08-15-2018, 01:27 PM
Good. I donít want to fly with any F.Oís that fking stupid. Adios!

Depends on your definition of stupid. The one guy I know has been here less than 2 yrs and has no TPIC. If he wants the big 3, staying here isnít going to cut it. Looks like heís trying to pursue the TPIC time, and an added bonus is a flow up to AA in 5 yrs in case the big 3 donít call him until then. What is guaranteed by staying here, heíll be a FO for a long time and not adding anything to his resume other than worthless SIC time. (Worthless from a resume perspective for the big 3). Also from what I hear it isnít just one guy leaving to do this, thereís at least two.


Instead of being so dismissive, why donít you step back and look at why multiple people are leaving Alaska for a regional.

IFlyEm
08-15-2018, 05:42 PM
Also from what I hear it isnít just one guy leaving to do this, thereís at least two.


A whole 2 people? :-o

Just messin...

It's EXTREMELY hard to justify leaving a top 5 carrier to go to a regional. Especially with all the speculation over what could happen in the next year or two. Everyone needs to do what they feel is right for them. But leaving here to go to a regional is worse than bypassing upgrade at a regional.

rickair7777
08-15-2018, 06:07 PM
Instead of being so dismissive, why don’t you step back and look at why multiple people are leaving Alaska for a regional.

Well, really they're leaving AS for AA. They're just accepting a paycut, some flow risk, and a delay in the process. Risky, but there's a potential payoff if you're young enough to get to WB CA and spend some time there. Calculated risk vs. gain, but not necessarily stupid.

plt32173
08-15-2018, 09:05 PM
A whole 2 people? :-o

Just messin...

It's EXTREMELY hard to justify leaving a top 5 carrier to go to a regional. Especially with all the speculation over what could happen in the next year or two. Everyone needs to do what they feel is right for them. But leaving here to go to a regional is worse than bypassing upgrade at a regional.

Top 5!? We are close to #7. And this POS scheduling section 25 is worse then any regionals. Nobody should be proud to be a part of this airline.

IFlyEm
08-16-2018, 07:51 AM
Top 5!? We are close to #7. And this POS scheduling section 25 is worse then any regionals. Nobody should be proud to be a part of this airline.

I don't disagree. But if you are going to leave aim higher than Envoy or any other regional for that matter.

OTZeagle1
08-16-2018, 09:36 AM
This rhetoric is embarrassing! No wonder our management thinks we are a bunch of spoiled babies. You all whine and whine like children. I am a multimillionaire in large part do to this bottom feeder airline. Are you all this far out of touch?

OTZeagle1
08-16-2018, 09:47 AM
Just heard from a CP... 6 Captains an 9 FOís just left for Great Lakes. This place is number 19 now! Give me a brake you idiots and grow up!

EskimoJoe
08-16-2018, 10:13 AM
Instead of being so dismissive, why donít you step back and look at why multiple people are leaving Alaska for a regional.
I have. Iíve concluded that these two are fking idiots.

ShyGuy
08-16-2018, 12:20 PM
Egos being bruised here :rolleyes:

Both of you live in SEA and pick up open time and can't figure out why someone else doesn't want the life you have. No point arguing any of this, the bottom line reality is people are moving on and yes some are gonna do Envoy DEC for AA eventually.

av8or
08-16-2018, 12:29 PM
This rhetoric is embarrassing! No wonder our management thinks we are a bunch of spoiled babies. You all whine and whine like children. I am a multimillionaire in large part do to this bottom feeder airline. Are you all this far out of touch?
🤡😂😂😂👍🏼👍🏼 Seriously.... love it.

Ala5ka
08-16-2018, 01:02 PM
Highly unlikely that you are a multi millionaire due to Alaska This rhetoric is embarrassing! No wonder our management thinks we are a bunch of spoiled babies. You all whine and whine like children. I am a multimillionaire in large part do to this bottom feeder airline. Are you all this far out of touch?

OTZeagle1
08-16-2018, 02:38 PM
Highly unlikely that you are a multi millionaire due to Alaska

Just do the math on 17 years in the ESPP program you moron. Your probably too stupid to even realize itís a good deal. Then throw in some luck and risk, knowing I had a secure job and bingo. I know never mind, sit here ***** and moan like the world owes you something. Sit on your ass and do nothing, yeah that will work!

WutFace
08-16-2018, 02:58 PM
Just do the math on 17 years in the ESPP program you moron. Your probably too stupid to even realize itís a good deal. Then throw in some luck and risk, knowing I had a secure job and bingo. I know never mind, sit here ***** and moan like the world owes you something. Sit on your ass and do nothing, yeah that will work!

You still haven't retired yet. How disappointing.

max gross
08-16-2018, 03:12 PM
Just do the math on 17 years in the ESPP program you moron. Your probably too stupid to even realize itís a good deal. Then throw in some luck and risk, knowing I had a secure job and bingo. I know never mind, sit here ***** and moan like the world owes you something. Sit on your ass and do nothing, yeah that will work!

You guys are hurting his portfolio with all this negative nancy talk.... 😂

Max Thrust
08-16-2018, 03:13 PM
Just do the math on 17 years in the ESPP program you moron. Your probably too stupid to even realize itís a good deal. Then throw in some luck and risk, knowing I had a secure job and bingo. I know never mind, sit here ***** and moan like the world owes you something. Sit on your ass and do nothing, yeah that will work!

Why donít you go ahead and tell everyone how many girls youíve slept with too. Complete the triad of dťuchiness. Make sure to exaggerate the **** out of that number too cause, why not!

OTZeagle1
08-16-2018, 03:18 PM
Why donít you go ahead and tell everyone how many girls youíve slept with too. Complete the triad of dťuchiness. Make sure to exaggerate the **** out of that number too cause, why not!

My life is pretty boring that way. Happily married for many years though. I guess my morals and priorities are just a little different then yours.

Ala5ka
08-16-2018, 03:20 PM
At least I know the difference between brake and break. Shouldnít you be looking for some premium trips? Just heard from a CP... 6 Captains an 9 FOís just left for Great Lakes. This place is number 19 now! Give me a brake you idiots and grow up!

CassinAK
08-16-2018, 03:27 PM
This is garbage... made $317k last year no perduim or 401k included. Have made $248k so far this year, $350-370k by the end of the year. I live in base, never less then 15 days off. Grow up! I have a couple buddies at SWA that are FOís... they do not make anything close to me.



Thatís because you were picking up all the premium that pilots of good moral character stopped picking up during arbitration. Just think, if all you tools had stopped, we may have had an even higher pay rate to fly at premium!!

OTZeagle1
08-16-2018, 03:27 PM
Brake as in stop 🛑

Orcas Island right now enjoying the view... a little smokey but better then yesterday. Come up we can share a red stripe!

OTZeagle1
08-16-2018, 03:31 PM
Thatís because you were picking up all the premium that pilots of good moral character stopped picking up during arbitration. Just think if all you tools has stopped we may have had an even higher pay rate to fly at premium!!

We had a contract, the company was going to arbitration from Day 1. Just like our SLI. Donít be stupid!

CassinAK
08-16-2018, 03:36 PM
We had a contract, the company was going to arbitration from Day 1. Just like our SLI. Donít be stupid!



If youír ok with having that reputation then you can live with it. To me my reputation is more important than a few extra dollars. Why donít you tell us your opinion on contract 2013ís removal of VSA during a furlough? I bet you think thatís when we should be helping the company the most. Never mind our pilots on the street.

OTZeagle1
08-16-2018, 03:46 PM
If youír ok with having that reputation then you can live with it. To me my reputation is more important than a few extra dollars. Why donít you tell us your opinion on contract 2013ís removal of VSA during a furlough? I bet you think thatís when we should be helping the company the most. Never mind our pilots on the street.

Nope. I hate it. Never picked up when we had guys out. Will never pick up when our contract is past itís amendable date.

CassinAK
08-16-2018, 03:48 PM
Nope. I hate it. Never picked up when we had guys out. Will never pick up when our contract is past itís amendable date.



Just add ďwhen we are in negotiationsĒ to that list and we are good.

cmrflyer
08-16-2018, 04:08 PM
Brake as in stop 🛑

Orcas Island right now enjoying the view... a little smokey but better then yesterday. Come up we can share a red stripe!

No wonder you have tons of money if youíre sharing a bottle of beer.
How cheap can you get?

Snuffaluffagus
08-16-2018, 04:21 PM
No wonder you have tons of money if youíre sharing a bottle of beer.
How cheap can you get?


Hey, it could be a keystone light!

Max Thrust
08-16-2018, 04:21 PM
My life is pretty boring that way. Happily married for many years though. I guess my morals and priorities are just a little different then yours.

And those priorities would be obsessively grandstanding on an anonymous message board while ďat Orcas IslandĒ. Got it lol

FNGFO
08-16-2018, 04:42 PM
Trolls.

Donít feed them.

OTZeagle1
08-16-2018, 04:55 PM
And those priorities would be obsessively grandstanding on an anonymous message board while ďat Orcas IslandĒ. Got it lol

Grandstanding? Right just telling you all to grow up! The pity party is embarrassing... thatís all. Boat says 70 degrees, stop whining and go enjoy. No keystone light, I remember the days though. Red Stripe, Corona, and a couple of stray negra modeloís. You are welcome to any of them... 🍻

Saltlife85
08-16-2018, 06:01 PM
OTZ you crack me up .. Glad Alaska is treating you so well sir! Maybe Iíll have the pleasure of flying with you one day and you can tell me all about the stock market, ESPP, 401k tips, picking up OT, etc. Then we can go out on your boat and have some beers on you! Canít wait!!

Ala5ka
08-16-2018, 06:03 PM
Itís strange because I hate you and like you all at the same time Grandstanding? Right just telling you all to grow up! The pity party is embarrassing... thatís all. Boat says 70 degrees, stop whining and go enjoy. No keystone light, I remember the days though. Red Stripe, Corona, and a couple of stray negra modeloís. You are welcome to any of them... 🍻

CassinAK
08-16-2018, 08:12 PM
The ESPP is the real deal. Well as long as Otz gets the price to rise singlehandedly with his premium flying.

greatlake
08-18-2018, 11:02 AM
I wonder what AS will do with PenAir if they win the bid.

Noworkallplay
08-18-2018, 06:44 PM
Well that is putting words in my mouth. I said ďI donít care about commutabilityĒ, just like you donít care about the number of turn lines. But yes, I care about scheduling... I want a 6hr per day guarantee, I want holiday pay, override for backside flying, no preferential bidding, and 200% premium pick up.

Check back and see what I pick up summer of 2020. Our contract expires March 31, 2020.

Wow you sound like a real team player bud. If everyone had the attitude of me me me like yourself our industry wouldnít allow you to make that good living so keep that in mind.

beancounter
08-22-2018, 11:36 AM
Trolls.

Donít feed them.

Exactly, we all know he's lying/ a fake.

greatlake
10-03-2018, 12:28 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielreed/2018/10/02/jetblue-at-a-crossroads-kick-the-big-three-where-itll-hurt-most-or-convince-one-of-them-to-buy-it/amp/
Another potential buyer is Alaska Airlines, which is just beginning the complex process of integrating the operations of Virgin America, which it bought earlier this year. But it is not clear what value a deal to buy JetBlue, if Alaska could even pull it off, would bring to Alaskaís investors? The two did not compete much head-to-head, which is a merger positive, until Alaska acquired Virgin America, which competes head to head with JetBlue on some transcontinental routes. But there do not appear to be many good, natural points where JetBlue passengers could connect to the Alaska network Ė or vice versa. Without such connecting opportunities a combined Alaska-JetBlue network could struggle to be anything more than two non-compatible parts bolted together.

PasserOGas
10-12-2018, 10:45 AM
I notice that the old Virgin A320s haven't been painted yet. Any rumors about who Alaska is selling them to?

OCCP
10-12-2018, 11:04 AM
Theyíre painting several per month now

PasserOGas
10-12-2018, 02:27 PM
Theyíre painting several per month now

Ah. Thanks. So you guys are keeping them? What about being "all Boeing"?

rickair7777
10-12-2018, 02:32 PM
Ah. Thanks. So you guys are keeping them? What about being "all Boeing"?

"Proudly Slightly Majority Boeing"

flysnoopy76
10-12-2018, 02:57 PM
Ah. Thanks. So you guys are keeping them? What about being "all Boeing"?

They are half painting them, not bothering with the wings, and there has been no announcement regarding the airbus future but I think most expect them to be gone over the next few years.

Beta82
10-12-2018, 03:23 PM
They are half painting them, not bothering with the wings, and there has been no announcement regarding the airbus future but I think most expect them to be gone over the next few years.

I wouldnít be so sure about this. I donít think they have any time frame on when to get rid of the Airbus. They just renewed the 319 leases as an example. They will get rid of them when there is a recession or some sort of downturn and they canít fill airplanes assuming the leases are set to expire. I think they enjoy the flexibility of having the option to keep them or dump them when the leases are up depending on what the economy is doing or how well the competition is destroying us.

IFlyNFish
10-12-2018, 06:25 PM
Plus the next merger will likely be with an Airbus operator. 😉

ShyGuy
10-12-2018, 09:19 PM
They just renewed the 319 leases as an example.

I've heard this numerous times from many pilots. Is this really true? Or just a rumor? How would we even know if a lease was renewed on an A319?

O2pilot
10-12-2018, 10:02 PM
Plus the next merger will likely be with an Airbus operator. 😉

This is what Alaska will do.

1) Park all the Airbusses and replace them with Boeing.
2) Overpay (again) for another airline that is a 100% Airbus airline.
3) Park all those Airbusses and replace them with Boeing.

ShyGuy
10-12-2018, 11:17 PM
This is what Alaska will do.

1) Park all the Airbusses and replace them with Boeing.
2) Overpay (again) for another airline that is a 100% Airbus airline.
3) Park all those Airbusses and replace them with Boeing.

You forgot one:

4) Close jetBlue's JFK base

Ispeakjive
10-12-2018, 11:36 PM
Proudly Mostly SkyWest

rickair7777
10-13-2018, 07:20 AM
I've heard this numerous times from many pilots. Is this really true? Or just a rumor? How would we even know if a lease was renewed on an A319?

Publicly traded company, that kind of thing would probably have to be disclosed eventually, if necessarily not the day it happened.

Carlsbad
10-13-2018, 02:06 PM
I wouldnít be so sure about this. I donít think they have any time frame on when to get rid of the Airbus. They just renewed the 319 leases as an example. They will get rid of them when there is a recession or some sort of downturn and they canít fill airplanes assuming the leases are set to expire. I think they enjoy the flexibility of having the option to keep them or dump them when the leases are up depending on what the economy is doing or how well the competition is destroying us.

Those 319 leases are valuable. We want/need more 319s, but Airbus wants the assembly lines cranking out mostly 321s, so theyíre hard to get negotiated/delivered. We were set to get a bunch of 319s from Frontier, but the deal fell through, I donít know why. American is still looking though.

snackysmores
10-13-2018, 02:46 PM
What kind of healthcare plans do you guys get? Heard The Cooch say he was coming after them.

symbian simian
10-13-2018, 02:59 PM
"Proudly Slightly Majority Boeing"

Proudly flying, sometimes, Boeing....

TheFly
10-13-2018, 03:12 PM
Proudly Mostly SkyWest

Ouch!!!!!!!

Name User
10-13-2018, 03:44 PM
Those 319 leases are valuable. We want/need more 319s, but Airbus wants the assembly lines cranking out mostly 321s, so they’re hard to get negotiated/delivered. We were set to get a bunch of 319s from Frontier, but the deal fell through, I don’t know why. American is still looking though.

AA got some Frontier 319's. I think around 10.

Carlsbad
10-13-2018, 06:39 PM
AA got some Frontier 319's. I think around 10. First it was 8 airplanes, then 10, then last month 3, but........... heard a couple weeks ago it fell through.

IFlyNFish
10-13-2018, 07:38 PM
This is what Alaska will do.

1) Park all the Airbusses and replace them with Boeing.
2) Overpay (again) for another airline that is a 100% Airbus airline.
3) Park all those Airbusses and replace them with Boeing.



Bwahahahahahaha. 😂🤣😂🤣😂

😢

Name User
10-13-2018, 07:41 PM
First it was 8 airplanes, then 10, then last month 3, but........... heard a couple weeks ago it fell through.

Straight from Isom's mouth in crew news. Not sure what other rumors there are.

O2pilot
10-14-2018, 10:02 AM
Those 319 leases are valuable. We want/need more 319s, but Airbus wants the assembly lines cranking out mostly 321s, so theyíre hard to get negotiated/delivered. We were set to get a bunch of 319s from Frontier, but the deal fell through, I donít know why. American is still looking though.

United has 40 used 319s coming from EasyJet and Southern Air China and actively negotiating for more.

Foofighterpilot
10-14-2018, 10:09 AM
Hey, I may be a low information voter but is anyone aware of this. Not sure this is the thread but seen as how we are getting bought!! (dreamer here) I thought is was a good place for it.


https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180702005923/en/PGE-Corporation-Board-Directors-Elects-Ben-Minicucci

PNWFlyer
10-14-2018, 11:01 AM
Hey, I may be a low information voter but is anyone aware of this. Not sure this is the thread but seen as how we are getting bought!! (dreamer here) I thought is was a good place for it.


https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180702005923/en/PGE-Corporation-Board-Directors-Elects-Ben-Minicucci

Gotta have a side business.

MusicPilot
10-14-2018, 11:11 AM
Hey, I may be a low information voter but is anyone aware of this. Not sure this is the thread but seen as how we are getting bought!! (dreamer here) I thought is was a good place for it.


https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180702005923/en/PGE-Corporation-Board-Directors-Elects-Ben-Minicucci


This is just easy money for doing jack squat.

Carlsbad
10-15-2018, 01:23 PM
Straight from Isom's mouth in crew news. Not sure what other rumors there are.

Maybe I should start watching crew news again! I used to look forward to them, but this place has turned into such a [email protected] show I quit.