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View Full Version : Omni, Atlas, or Kalitta ?


GulfstreamBro
08-04-2018, 12:44 PM
Have an offer from two of these company's. Which one would you go to ? Seem's like Omni and Kalitta wouldn't be bad. Any advice would be appreciated.


Riverside
08-04-2018, 01:44 PM
Kalitta fly a lot and make money.
Omni sit a lot and make guarentee.
Atlas make no money and fly bent airplanes.

Stratocruzr
08-04-2018, 02:22 PM
Atlas = fly a lot make no money.

Kallita would probably be the best choice. Donít waste your time with Atless.


BluePAX
08-04-2018, 03:35 PM
Financially plan first 4 months at $1600 and remaining 8 months to credit 50 hrs at Atlas. 2.5 months in Miami for Indoc and sim. OE backed up 3 months right now, I think February class is mostly done.

RandomPerson
08-04-2018, 05:41 PM
I wouldn't say Atlas flies a lot necessarily but the money is absolute garbage, as are benefits and everything else. Yeah Atlas pilots gone from home a lot, but that doesn't equate to block time.

Kalitta and Omni, and even ATI make at least 50% more money just based on guarantee. If you get hired at one of those two it's a no brainer to pass on Atlas. Atlas is pure dog dung. I'm talking 767, where the Atlas growth is.

There are a some low time F/O's who got hired at Atlas and bail for regionals because they're only getting 250 or so block hours for year, making 50 hour guarantee every month during 1st year, so the money is crap. 62 hours guarantee after year 1 is not much better. If you come to Atlas as a stepping stone with ~ 3k hours, well, it could be a decade before you've accumulated the block time to be competitive for an actual career airline.

IF IT'S SO BAD WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE? I am trying and am actively interviewing after almost 10 years. No improvement in sight at Atlas for at least another 2 years. It's a huge career mistake to go to Atlas unless you already have a lot of flight time and need a short-term stop-gap or you're damaged goods (no degree, DUI, many busted checkrides), etc. This is especially true if they try to put you on the 767, or even worse, at Southern. At least on the 747 the pay is more palatable, but it's still 25% less than the other ACMI's, and the schedules are soul-sucking.

jungle driver
08-04-2018, 08:03 PM
Kalitta > Omni > Atlas

but thats just my opinion

Jurassic Jet
08-04-2018, 08:23 PM
Kalitta > Omni > Home Depot > Piano player in a brothel > Atlas > ABX > White Castle > ATI

but thats just my opinion


There. I fixed it for mine.

No Land 3
08-04-2018, 08:47 PM
K4 has a happy pilot group. This says a lot.

727CA
08-04-2018, 08:50 PM
Kalitta > Omni > Atlas
Kalitta fly a lot and make money.
Omni sit a lot and make guarentee.
Atlas make no money and fly bent airplanes.
Kalitta and ATI are top choices. Omni, Atlas and especially ABX not so much.
ATI's hiring like crazy. They don't have the problem of pilots not showing up for class like at other ACMI's.

No Land 3
08-04-2018, 08:54 PM
Kalitta and ATI are top choices. Omni, Atlas and especially ABX not so much.
ATI's hiring like crazy. They don't have the problem of pilots not showing up for class like at other ACMI's.

I'd list the choices this way...
K4 > Western Global > Omni = ATI > Mesa > "Dehli Toilet Pit Lady" > Atlas

Of course I know only what it is like to work at K4 and Mesa, so this advice is worth as much as a Prime Air bag tag

b707guy
08-04-2018, 09:25 PM
K4 has a happy pilot group. This says a lot.


Despite the rhetoric, so does ATI for the most part. Not trying to sell it to anyone, and not trying to imply that everything's coming up roses. Just sayin' we don't have to use 100% O2 every single day. And Southern doesn't even rate for making anyone's list below us? I guess things are looking up! :)

No Land 3
08-04-2018, 09:39 PM
Despite the rhetoric, so does ATI for the most part. Not trying to sell it to anyone, and not trying to imply that everything's coming up roses. Just sayin' we don't have to use 100% O2 every single day. And Southern doesn't even rate for making anyone's list below us? I guess things are looking up! :)
I am quite clueless what it is like to work at ATI. Internet razzing and all that.

GulfstreamBro
08-04-2018, 09:47 PM
What makes K4 better than Omni? Omni seems to have happy pilot group and the pay seems to be about the same.

b707guy
08-04-2018, 09:52 PM
What makes K4 better than Omni? Omni seems to have happy pilot group and the pay seems to be about the same.


Larger fleet of larger aircraft
Greater opportunity for growth
More diverse customer base
More opportunity for overtime at pretty much the same rates (747, at least)
Similar work rules and benefits


Regardless, it's still all ACMI! Poison can flip flop with gold at the stroke of someone's fancy pen.

Elevation
08-05-2018, 12:16 AM
...Regardless, it's still all ACMI! Poison can flip flop with gold at the stroke of someone's fancy pen.

This is very true!

b707guy
08-05-2018, 06:54 AM
There. I fixed it for mine.


Wait, White Castle is hiring?


At least we made your list - Good to know there's still a chance you could join us! :D

Crusoe
08-05-2018, 09:13 AM
I'd list the choices this way...
K4 > Western Global > Omni = ATI > Mesa > "Dehli Toilet Pit Lady" > Atlas

Of course I know only what it is like to work at K4 and Mesa, so this advice is worth as much as a Prime Air bag tag

Rumor has it that the Dehli Toilet Pit Lady was offered a class date at Atlas but she ghosted them because she was worried it might be a stain on her resume and the working conditions were worse than her current gig. Allegedly...

tengssuuciurta
08-05-2018, 10:17 AM
I'd list the choices this way...
K4 > Western Global > Omni = ATI > Mesa > "Dehli Toilet Pit Lady" > Atlas

Of course I know only what it is like to work at K4 and Mesa, so this advice is worth as much as a Prime Air bag tag

What makes you place WGA over Omni?

4runner
08-05-2018, 11:45 AM
Kalitta fly a lot and make money.
Omni sit a lot and make guarentee.
Atlas make no money and fly bent airplanes.

I canít stop laughing. I screen shot this and sent it to every ACMI rebel scum I know.

No Land 3
08-05-2018, 12:50 PM
What makes you place WGA over Omni?

I debated changing the ranking. I just don't know enough about Omni post contract. Have friends at WGA that are happy who work a lot less than I do for the money.
Does Omni have weak work rules? Longer on days?

4runner
08-05-2018, 02:20 PM
Whoís the toilet lady? I know of Lamp lady. LAMPS!!!!

Packrat
08-05-2018, 02:22 PM
Kalitta fly a lot and make money.
Omni sit a lot and make guarentee.
Atlas make no money and fly bent airplanes.

This in spades.

ocskyguy
08-05-2018, 02:37 PM
Comparing companies is a slippery slope, boys and girls...


On any given day, somebody has a better deal than you. Just the way it is. As we have all said on other threads, the object of the game is to drag our collective asses to the top, one contract at a time.


Right now, K4 is the place to be. Connie is looking to make a legacy. A juggernaut of an airline that has critical mass enough to not be another Southern or Polar and get swallowed by the competition. Although privately held, there is a clear and defined successor plan. (Yes, I am inside the circle just enough to know...)


ACMI is an economic crap shoot. We sway in the wind of commerce. But, if it is any kind of guide, I came here thinking it would be a 6 month job to hold me over while I looked for a "real job". Kalitta was just a place to pass time. That was October of 1992. Funny how plans change. Couldn't ask for a more entertaining and lucrative ride.


Skyguy out...

Geezer
08-05-2018, 03:16 PM
Have an offer from two of these company's. Which one would you go to ? Seem's like Omni and Kalitta wouldn't be bad. Any advice would be appreciated.

Which has the better pipeline to UPS or FedEx?

24601
08-05-2018, 03:37 PM
I would put western at the lower end next to or after atlas,
K4, omni, any wholly owned regional, atlas, western, atx

4runner
08-05-2018, 04:02 PM
K4 airplanes are embarrassing to be seen in...atlas planes are banana shaped, regional planes have someone elseís hopes and dreams painted on the tails, western global planes made a pit stop in Victorville for an extended nap in the California sun before being leased and Omni aircraft have fat flight attendants that smell like cat food.

Geezer
08-05-2018, 04:02 PM
Comparing companies is a slippery slope, boys and girls...


On any given day, somebody has a better deal than you. Just the way it is. As we have all said on other threads, the object of the game is to drag our collective asses to the top, one contract at a time.


Right now, K4 is the place to be. Connie is looking to make a legacy. A juggernaut of an airline that has critical mass enough to not be another Southern or Polar and get swallowed by the competition. Although privately held, there is a clear and defined successor plan. (Yes, I am inside the circle just enough to know...)


ACMI is an economic crap shoot. We sway in the wind of commerce. But, if it is any kind of guide, I came here thinking it would be a 6 month job to hold me over while I looked for a "real job". Kalitta was just a place to pass time. That was October of 1992. Funny how plans change. Couldn't ask for a more entertaining and lucrative ride.


Skyguy out...

I agree with the "legacy" opinion. It appears to me that Mr. Kalitta doesn't do anything by halves. Kalitta Motorsports has two Top Fuel teams and two Funny Car teams. Watch the video of Doug winning at 2018 Winter Nationals. There's a very brief shot of Mr. Kalitta as Doug won, Mr Kalitta's smile was genuine. I suspect that Mr. Kalitta would love to see Doug and Richie and then JR and Shawn face of against each other in their respective categories in the final races at the next NHRA event (Brainerd?). If building a "legacy" and a "juggernaut" are the equivalent of winning the most Wally's, then that's a tremendous asset to any future or current employee of Kalitta Air.

skypine27
08-05-2018, 04:11 PM
Which has the better pipeline to UPS or FedEx?
FDX: Atlas 767

ocskyguy
08-05-2018, 10:15 PM
I agree with the "legacy" opinion. It appears to me that Mr. Kalitta doesn't do anything by halves. Kalitta Motorsports has two Top Fuel teams and two Funny Car teams. Watch the video of Doug winning at 2018 Winter Nationals. There's a very brief shot of Mr. Kalitta as Doug won, Mr Kalitta's smile was genuine. I suspect that Mr. Kalitta would love to see Doug and Richie and then JR and Shawn face of against each other in their respective categories in the final races at the next NHRA event (Brainerd?). If building a "legacy" and a "juggernaut" are the equivalent of winning the most Wally's, then that's a tremendous asset to any future or current employee of Kalitta Air.


The smile is genuine. A trip to the race shop is a must do for anyone who makes it here to YIP. Lots of toys and technology. They have a robotic machine that turns a chunk of alloy into an engine block in about an hour. Pretty cool to watch the show.


I generally don't reveal personal details on the internet. But, a story to explain why I became a lifer here. I had the unfortunate experience of having a child who almost died while I was on a trip. The voice on the end of the phone said "We got you a ticket. Go home." No discussion of who would cover the trip (leaving in less than 6 hours, that eventually cancelled). And, they never took a day of sick time while I was home. Try that at Delta and see where it gets you. Just sayin'

RandomPerson
08-05-2018, 11:04 PM
I dont think any kalitta pilots have the leeway to nake fun of anyone "bending airplanes", lol. U really wanna go there?

maxjet
08-06-2018, 05:16 AM
K4 airplanes are embarrassing to be seen in...

Why is that? I hope the 777 gets painted in K4 colors rather than DHL. I donít dis like the DHL paint I am just proud to be at Kalitta

RyeMex
08-06-2018, 05:40 AM
Why is that? I hope the 777 gets painted in K4 colors rather than DHL. I donít dis like the DHL paint I am just proud to be at Kalitta

You guys are getting a 777?

nitefr8dog
08-06-2018, 07:53 AM
Why is that? I hope the 777 gets painted in K4 colors rather than DHL. I donít dis like the DHL paint I am just proud to be at Kalitta
I agree...I hope when our 777 arrives its not painted banana DHL yellow!

4runner
08-06-2018, 11:39 AM
Why is that? I hope the 777 gets painted in K4 colors rather than DHL. I donít dis like the DHL paint I am just proud to be at Kalitta

They havenít been washed since they left the factory and Iíve seen mismatched panels and evidence of ďhand paintingĒ, with a brush...

Locke
08-06-2018, 12:50 PM
They havenít been washed since they left the factory and Iíve seen mismatched panels and evidence of ďhand paintingĒ, with a brush...

Welcome to cargo where no one cares. Money isnít made by washing planes, and you arenít selling glamour like the pax guys. Just donít touch the outside of the plane and youíll be fine.

No Land 3
08-06-2018, 03:39 PM
747 doesn't need to be clean to put a smile on a person's face. I think washing an airplane is done more for the mechanic than anyone.

WhaleWrangler
08-06-2018, 05:47 PM
Why is that? I hope the 777 gets painted in K4 colors rather than DHL. I donít dis like the DHL paint I am just proud to be at Kalitta


At least we know what colors the -8's will be :)

Asiabound
08-06-2018, 07:59 PM
What makes you place WGA over Omni?

I'm a bit partial, but Omni is notorious for not allowing overtime. I'm not sure if that's changed since the new contract, WGN on the other hand there's quite a bit to go around and it sometimes includes sitting at home on reserve while getting OT. I know of guys intentionally staying on rotation for 40+ days, everything over day 20 is at 200%, whether you fly or sit. WGN is also adding up to 5 airplanes by the end of 2019, that 35% fleet growth, I don't know if Omni is adding aircraft or not? We also have a decent bonus pay system and profit sharing. OTOH we don't have business class travel which is industry standard for ACMI's these days. Our pay and work agreement doesn't hold a candle to K4.

Omni pilots were badly abused for a very long time, as were K4 pilots. WGN pilots haven't been through that, so our pilot group is mostly happy, though we have plenty of jaded guys from World, Skylease, CAC, Ryan, etc., and rightfully so.

Not throwing stones, we have our issues here, but I don't feel like I'm fighting the company every time I go to work. It's the best airline I've worked for so far. I still haven't deleted any of my apps to the majors though. If you are under 40, with a degree, no major black marks, and are in the left seat of an RJ? Don't waste your time with ACMI, keep you eye on the price and go for a major. When the next recession comes this sector of the industry will be the first in the toilet, Good luck.

GraceMonth
08-06-2018, 10:10 PM
I'm a bit partial, but Omni is notorious for not allowing overtime. I'm not sure if that's changed since the new contract, WGN on the other hand there's quite a bit to go around and it sometimes includes sitting at home on reserve while getting OT. I know of guys intentionally staying on rotation for 40+ days, everything over day 20 is at 200%, whether you fly or sit. WGN is also adding up to 5 airplanes by the end of 2019, that 35% fleet growth, I don't know if Omni is adding aircraft or not? We also have a decent bonus pay system and profit sharing. OTOH we don't have business class travel which is industry standard for ACMI's these days. Our pay and work agreement doesn't hold a candle to K4.

Omni pilots were badly abused for a very long time, as were K4 pilots. WGN pilots haven't been through that, so our pilot group is mostly happy, though we have plenty of jaded guys from World, Skylease, CAC, Ryan, etc., and rightfully so.

Not throwing stones, we have our issues here, but I don't feel like I'm fighting the company every time I go to work. It's the best airline I've worked for so far. I still haven't deleted any of my apps to the majors though. If you are under 40, with a degree, no major black marks, and are in the left seat of an RJ? Don't waste your time with ACMI, keep you eye on the price and go for a major. When the next recession comes this sector of the industry will be the first in the toilet, Good luck.


Iím at Omni. Iíve broken guarantee every month for the past 4. In May and June I was contacted by the company asking if I want to volunteer to pick up open flying. In July I volunteered a few days and was flying every day. Guarantee is 64, my credit hours have been in the low 80s, excluding any overtime or override days.

777 FO.

GM

Asiabound
08-07-2018, 09:54 AM
Iím at Omni. Iíve broken guarantee every month for the past 4. In May and June I was contacted by the company asking if I want to volunteer to pick up open flying. In July I volunteered a few days and was flying every day. Guarantee is 64, my credit hours have been in the low 80s, excluding any overtime or override days.

777 FO.

GM

Glad to hear that's changed.

aviatorhi
08-07-2018, 11:17 AM
Iím at Omni. Iíve broken guarantee every month for the past 4. In May and June I was contacted by the company asking if I want to volunteer to pick up open flying. In July I volunteered a few days and was flying every day. Guarantee is 64, my credit hours have been in the low 80s, excluding any overtime or override days.

777 FO.

GM

This is by and large because we are still recovering to the desired staffing level. Don't expect to break guarantee when that happens. However they typically do not shy away from keeping someone on the road if they ask to stay on the road.

saxman66
08-07-2018, 02:38 PM
If you are under 40, with a degree, no major black marks, and are in the left seat of an RJ? Don't waste your time with ACMI, keep you eye on the price and go for a major. When the next recession comes this sector of the industry will be the first in the toilet, Good luck.

You described me. I have an interview schedule at K4, and was thinking about the same thing about ACMI and it's probably the bottom shock absorber if the economy takes a hit. I'm really excited at the thought of flying around the world and seeing places I would never otherwise see, even at a legacy. Or stay at my no flow through regional with decent seniority but going to Buffalo and Des Moines in the winter time while commuting across the country on a weekly basis while waiting for a legacy to call or not.

goinaround
08-07-2018, 03:43 PM
You described me. I have an interview schedule at K4, and was thinking about the same thing about ACMI and it's probably the bottom shock absorber if the economy takes a hit. I'm really excited at the thought of flying around the world and seeing places I would never otherwise see, even at a legacy. Or stay at my no flow through regional with decent seniority but going to Buffalo and Des Moines in the winter time while commuting across the country on a weekly basis while waiting for a legacy to call or not.

Did the ACMIs furlough after 9/11 as severely as the pax carriers? Serious question....I actually don't know. I always thought that an ACMI with a knack for finding business (like K4) would be the safe bet. Many legacy drivers ran for cover at carriers like that when it hit the fan last time. Hence the repressed wages during the lost decade and a half.

saxman66
08-07-2018, 04:33 PM
Did the ACMIs furlough after 9/11 as severely as the pax carriers? Serious question....I actually don't know. I always thought that an ACMI with a knack for finding business (like K4) would be the safe bet. Many legacy drivers ran for cover at carriers like that when it hit the fan last time. Hence the repressed wages during the lost decade and a half.

I have no idea either actually. When you think about it the fallout from 9/11 was almost 20 years ago! The legacies that furloughed were running on a totally different model back then. Now that we have mass retirements that have no where peaked yet, I think a downed economy will hopefully not have as big an impact on pilot hiring as it has before. Perhaps attrition will cushion it. But, with ACMI's having such a small pilot group compared to the legacies I wonder if they can absorb it as well.

No Land 3
08-07-2018, 05:30 PM
At least with K4 and Atlas, the flying is very well diversified, not so much at the pax carriers.

Asiabound
08-07-2018, 07:37 PM
You described me. I have an interview schedule at K4, and was thinking about the same thing about ACMI and it's probably the bottom shock absorber if the economy takes a hit. I'm really excited at the thought of flying around the world and seeing places I would never otherwise see, even at a legacy. Or stay at my no flow through regional with decent seniority but going to Buffalo and Des Moines in the winter time while commuting across the country on a weekly basis while waiting for a legacy to call or not.

For sure, having done it myself, the adventure is awesome. But I'm definitely not deleting any apps or slowing down my networking. ACMI is full of eccentric CEOs and business that have a "knack for finding work." Some guys say I'm crazy, but then I meet guys that are on airline 4 since 9/11. One example: Polar, World, Evergreen, WGN. That's four interviews in less than 17 years. Remember Spirit and JetBlue also offer ACMI type schedules, my friend at Spirit bids reserve, and consistently gets 15-17 off/month.

Don't mean to lecture, wish you the best and I'll probably bump into you on the road. Safe Travels.

No Land 3
08-07-2018, 07:44 PM
Coldest I've ever been is in South Korea during the winter. Cold in the USA is dry. Try humid cold!! Could only get half the walk around done before retreating to warm up again.

HercDriver130
08-07-2018, 08:07 PM
Coldest I've ever been is in South Korea during the winter. Cold in the USA is dry. Try humid cold!! Could only get half the walk around done before retreating to warm up again.

its 105 heat index here in OSAN today..... but I know what you mean... it gets cold as %^&* here.

Geezer
08-07-2018, 09:23 PM
Did the ACMIs furlough after 9/11 as severely as the pax carriers? Serious question....I actually don't know. I always thought that an ACMI with a knack for finding business (like K4) would be the safe bet. Many legacy drivers ran for cover at carriers like that when it hit the fan last time. Hence the repressed wages during the lost decade and a half.

K4 started in 2001. No furlough because of 9-11. Two furloughs, 2009 and 2013. Downgrades and a bunch of other fun stuff accompanied those time periods.

Geezer
08-07-2018, 10:25 PM
Did the ACMIs furlough after 9/11 as severely as the pax carriers? Serious question....I actually don't know. I always thought that an ACMI with a knack for finding business (like K4) would be the safe bet. Many legacy drivers ran for cover at carriers like that when it hit the fan last time. Hence the repressed wages during the lost decade and a half.

Atlas declared Bankruptcy in 2004.

Asiabound
08-08-2018, 09:12 AM
its 105 heat index here in OSAN today..... but I know what you mean... it gets cold as %^&* here.

I was there for a few months last year, just breathing that imported Chinese air... ugh.

Locke
08-08-2018, 09:32 AM
I was there for a few months last year, just breathing that imported Chinese air... ugh.

You obviously havenít been to Zhengzhou or Wuhan lately if you think the air in Korea is bad. But remember China is leading the way in green energy :rolleyes:

HercDriver130
08-08-2018, 09:54 AM
K4 started in 2001. No furlough because of 9-11. Two furloughs, 2009 and 2013. Downgrades and a bunch of other fun stuff accompanied those time periods.

For full disclosure.... the 2008/2009 furlough was too fast and too deep and the company admitted as much. Some guys were only furloughed 4-6 weeks...the longest was about 8 months I believe.... sucked yes.

The last furlough... company announced the intention to furlough approx 30 pilots in the end they only furloughed 7......Of those 7 I believe only 1 or 2 returned at recall nearly two years later. Many believe and I am one of those that most of this furlough was to try to force our union to cave to their demands.. that didnt happen... we flew short staffed most of the time these guys were on furlough.. and when we did recall and begin hiring it has been non stop since.

HercDriver130
08-08-2018, 09:54 AM
You obviously havenít been to Zhengzhou or Wuhan lately if you think the air in Korea is bad. But remember China is leading the way in green energy :rolleyes:

^^^^^^ this

lionflyer
08-08-2018, 11:58 AM
For full disclosure.... the 2008/2009 furlough was too fast and too deep and the company admitted as much. Some guys were only furloughed 4-6 weeks...the longest was about 8 months I believe.... sucked yes.

The last furlough... company announced the intention to furlough approx 30 pilots in the end they only furloughed 7......Of those 7 I believe only 1 or 2 returned at recall nearly two years later. Many believe and I am one of those that most of this furlough was to try to force our union to cave to their demands.. that didnt happen... we flew short staffed most of the time these guys were on furlough.. and when we did recall and begin hiring it has been non stop since.

Very true. The 2009 furlough arguably shouldnít have happened. The company basically panicked at the impending apocalypse. The 2013 furlough was the result of the company being late to the ballgame in realizing nobody wanted 200 lift anymore. K4 only had about 4 400s at the time. Some 30 CAs got displaced and it took 3+ years to get the left seat back. Now upgrades are <2yrs. Go figure.

Asiabound
08-08-2018, 01:14 PM
You obviously havenít been to Zhengzhou or Wuhan lately if you think the air in Korea is bad. But remember China is leading the way in green energy :rolleyes:

I've been to and flown through to five continents and I've never been to mainland China or Mexico, only HKG. Can't wait... lol

HercDriver130
08-08-2018, 02:47 PM
Very true. The 2009 furlough arguably shouldnít have happened. The company basically panicked at the impending apocalypse. The 2013 furlough was the result of the company being late to the ballgame in realizing nobody wanted 200 lift anymore. K4 only had about 4 400s at the time. Some 30 CAs got displaced and it took 3+ years to get the left seat back. Now upgrades are <2yrs. Go figure.

6 400s... but who's counting... and the ERF was bought during that time as well.... but yes... again... neither should have happened with a bit of planning.....

Now K4 has 22 400s operating and the 6th 767-300 is entering service today.

gumpscheck
08-08-2018, 04:29 PM
6 400s... but who's counting... and the ERF was bought during that time as well.... but yes... again... neither should have happened with a bit of planning.....

Now K4 has 22 400s operating and the 6th 767-300 is entering service today.

In the meantime ABX keeps loosing cities and airplanes. Itís amazing every airline is expanding and ABX shrinking.

goinaround
08-08-2018, 04:34 PM
In the meantime ABX keeps loosing cities and airplanes. Itís amazing every airline is expanding and ABX shrinking.

Two more Abex routes going to K4 in November.....

No Land 3
08-08-2018, 04:44 PM
Two more Abex routes going to K4 in November.....
It's clear they are whipsawing you against ATI for that strike.

goinaround
08-08-2018, 04:59 PM
It's amazing to see how everyone at K4 is tripping over themselves to keep up with the rapid expansion....and pilots are happy. Meanwhile.....at ABX.........

Locke
08-08-2018, 07:22 PM
It's amazing to see how everyone at K4 is tripping over themselves to keep up with the rapid expansion....and pilots are happy. Meanwhile.....at ABX.........
The no junior manning thing is awesome. Being understaffed at K4 equals $$$$ not pain.

4runner
08-08-2018, 09:00 PM
Whipsaw? Youíre uncompetitive and must take concessions in exchange for growth. Youíre overpaid and have too many contractual obligations for the company. Donít worry though, Soaper will get this sorted.

No Land 3
08-09-2018, 03:45 AM
Whipsaw? Youíre uncompetitive and must take concessions in exchange for growth. Youíre overpaid and have too many contractual obligations for the company. Donít worry though, Soaper will get this sorted.

You sound like a regional pilot? Or am I missing sarcasm in this post?

maxjet
08-09-2018, 04:48 AM
It's amazing to see how everyone at K4 is tripping over themselves to keep up with the rapid expansion....and pilots are happy. Meanwhile.....at ABX.........

Perhaps our Unions could collaborate and arrange for preferential hiring of ABX Pilots with the right time. With the difficulties we are experiencing in our upgrade program we could use the experienced pilots. With a new fleet type coming onboard soon upgrades should continue to stay at the 15 month and maybe even earlier.

atpcliff
08-09-2018, 05:08 AM
Perhaps our Unions could collaborate and arrange for preferential hiring of ABX Pilots with the right time. With the difficulties we are experiencing in our upgrade program we could use the experienced pilots. With a new fleet type coming onboard soon upgrades should continue to stay at the 15 month and maybe even earlier.

Is Kalitta getting the 777?

Hope everything is going good for you all at Kalitta...

gumpscheck
08-09-2018, 06:14 AM
Two more Abex routes going to K4 in November.....

Do you know which two routes?

goinaround
08-09-2018, 06:49 AM
Do you know which two routes?

San Juan and another one. LAX maybe?

gumpscheck
08-09-2018, 07:08 AM
San Juan and another one. LAX maybe?

Nice, I canít wait. More time off for the ABXers.

nitefr8dog
08-09-2018, 04:54 PM
Two more Abex routes going to K4 in November.....
Come on now....I am sure you have figured out DHL is working with ABX to juggle things around to scare the pilot group into an ATI or K4 type contract. "We are losing more cites....parking airplanes..the sky is falling". We are in contract talks after all. Being we currently are cheaper than k4 and ATI and the only thing DHL cares about is the cost (they have proven they do not care about on time) yet we lose cities.There is no additional Amazon flying to dangle so what else do they have? Reduce flying and watch the pilot group panic and post on APC. Standard contract negotiation tactics.

No Land 3
08-09-2018, 07:03 PM
Come on now....I am sure you have figured out DHL is working with ABX to juggle things around to scare the pilot group into an ATI or K4 type contract. "We are losing more cites....parking airplanes..the sky is falling". We are in contract talks after all. Being we currently are cheaper than k4 and ATI and the only thing DHL cares about is the cost (they have proven they do not care about on time) yet we lose cities.There is no additional Amazon flying to dangle so what else do they have? Reduce flying and watch the pilot group panic and post on APC. Standard contract negotiation tactics.
I wish you all the luck in getting a much better contract than K4, we need some one to.

4runner
08-09-2018, 07:54 PM
You sound like a regional pilot? Or am I missing sarcasm in this post?

I thought I laid it on thick enough.

WhaleWrangler
08-10-2018, 02:42 AM
Is Kalitta getting the 777?

Hope everything is going good for you all at Kalitta...


Always talk of it but in the meantime like current fleet but longer with 4 bigger engines.

No Land 3
08-10-2018, 11:46 AM
The 777 rumor is the strongest one I've heard yet. However, even if Connie buys a 777, doesn't mean it will get used in our operations, the man is a legend in the aircraft financing world. Maybe he flips it? Maybe it's a start to a third fleet type?
I would not be surprised however to see 777's on property, based on where the rumors are coming from.

Birdsmash
08-10-2018, 12:10 PM
Would the 777 pay the same as the 747 under your current CBA?

goinaround
08-10-2018, 01:16 PM
The 777 rumor is the strongest one I've heard yet. However, even if Connie buys a 777, doesn't mean it will get used in our operations, the man is a legend in the aircraft financing world. Maybe he flips it? Maybe it's a start to a third fleet type?
I would not be surprised however to see 777's on property, based on where the rumors are coming from.

What I'm hearing is CMI for five of the 777s that DHL purchased.

Lockheed
08-10-2018, 01:20 PM
Would the 777 pay the same as the 747 under your current CBA?

yes it would

No Land 3
08-10-2018, 02:42 PM
My magic 8 ball says more good things are coming to K4.

sky jet
08-10-2018, 05:38 PM
We donít even have an ETOPS program and you guys think we are getting 777ís? I donít think DHL/Turkish/? bought those things to go CVG to MSP. Do you really think this placeis capable of hiding table top exercises for ETOPS, maintenance and stores buildups, training department stand up and everything else that is required to bring on a new type? Somebody farts in ground school in YIP and 6 hours later it is all over the company and the world wide pilot rumor mill yet you are willing to suspend reality and believe we are SOON getting a new fleet type that requires FAA certification that takes massive effort and money to get? Ummm OK.

No Land 3
08-10-2018, 08:24 PM
We donít even have an ETOPS program and you guys think we are getting 777ís? I donít think DHL/Turkish/? bought those things to go CVG to MSP. Do you really think this placeis capable of hiding table top exercises for ETOPS, maintenance and stores buildups, training department stand up and everything else that is required to bring on a new type? Somebody farts in ground school in YIP and 6 hours later it is all over the company and the world wide pilot rumor mill yet you are willing to suspend reality and believe we are SOON getting a new fleet type that requires FAA certification that takes massive effort and money to get? Ummm OK.
Git er done!!!

BitterOHFO
08-10-2018, 08:31 PM
We donít even have an ETOPS program and you guys think we are getting 777ís? I donít think DHL/Turkish/? bought those things to go CVG to MSP. Do you really think this placeis capable of hiding table top exercises for ETOPS, maintenance and stores buildups, training department stand up and everything else that is required to bring on a new type? Somebody farts in ground school in YIP and 6 hours later it is all over the company and the world wide pilot rumor mill yet you are willing to suspend reality and believe we are SOON getting a new fleet type that requires FAA certification that takes massive effort and money to get? Ummm OK.


Slight correction we don't have ETOPS on the 767. Really not needed right now really. Last I checked the 400 has it. But what do I do know I spend most of my time in Texas!

BFMthisA10
08-10-2018, 08:40 PM
Filler...........

goinaround
08-10-2018, 09:44 PM
Slight correction we don't have ETOPS on the 767. Really not needed right now really. Last I checked the 400 has it. But what do I do know I spend most of my time in Texas!

So..... You're saying the 400 has ETOPS?

maxjet
08-10-2018, 10:27 PM
So..... You're saying the 400 has ETOPS?
Actually it does

BitterOHFO
08-10-2018, 10:52 PM
So..... You're saying the 400 has ETOPS?

You don't read so good I guess. 747 does have it sarcasm aside. 767 does not at the moment!

WhaleWrangler
08-11-2018, 01:04 AM
The 777 rumor is the strongest one I've heard yet. However, even if Connie buys a 777, doesn't mean it will get used in our operations, the man is a legend in the aircraft financing world. Maybe he flips it? Maybe it's a start to a third fleet type?
I would not be surprised however to see 777's on property, based on where the rumors are coming from.


Well we just signed a 5+ year contract with THY and they want bigger 4 engine lift and took steps to secure that for us / them.

The Baron
08-11-2018, 05:23 AM
The 400 does not have ETOPS as, ETOPS stands for Extended- range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards. K4 did apply for ETOPS on the B767 fleet. However at this time DHL has not asked us to fly any ETOPS routes where we demonstrate the performance needed and get certified. B777's come with the highest number of minutes from a diversion airport form the factory, and then when you operate them, after establishing a history you increase the distance from your diversion airport.

Birdsmash
08-11-2018, 06:23 AM
The 400 does not have ETOPS as, ETOPS stands for Extended- range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards. K4 did apply for ETOPS on the B767 fleet. However at this time DHL has not asked us to fly any ETOPS routes where we demonstrate the performance needed and get certified. B777's come with the highest number of minutes from a diversion airport form the factory, and then when you operate them, after establishing a history you increase the distance from your diversion airport.

Thatís an old definition of ETOPS. The FAA now defines it as "Extended OperationsĒ.

.https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/120-42B.pdf

Or, simply known as Engines Turn Or People Swim. ETOPS is not required on 3-4 engine freighters. It is required for all twin engine 121 passenger ops beyond 60 minutes from an adequate airport and 180 minutes for 3-4 engines. I doubt Connie has it as it on the 747 as costs more for MX.

Southern was able to get 180 minute ETOPS straight out of the box in 2010 with the 777F. The 777F is limited to 180 minutes due to fire suppression limits in the belly compartments. Passenger 777s, 787s, 330s, 747s, 380s, etc can be approved for greater than 180 minutes due to the type of cargo they are limited to. There are 23 different 180 minute ETOPS areas around the planet. The oceans are obviously the biggest but there are a few small ones over remote land. Each area requires separate OpSpec approval and flying through it at least once in 6 months. ETOPS from a pilot standpoint is fairly simple. Itís more of a Dispatch/Maintenance thing.

DC8DRIVER
08-11-2018, 06:23 AM
The 400 does not have ETOPS as, ETOPS stands for Extended- range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards. K4 did apply for ETOPS on the B767 fleet. However at this time DHL has not asked us to fly any ETOPS routes where we demonstrate the performance needed and get certified. B777's come with the highest number of minutes from a diversion airport form the factory, and then when you operate them, after establishing a history you increase the distance from your diversion airport.

Not quite correct. At least not correct any more. And, I know some ACMI carriers only carry freight, so this wouldn't apply but the FAA has redefined the ETOPS acronym to mean "Extended Operations" thus removing the "Two Engine" words from the title. It now applies to the 747 ... but only when carrying passengers.

"Even though for continuity with current two-engine ETOPS the existing acronym ETOPS is retained, the ETOPS acronym has been re-defined. ETOPS has been expanded to include all passenger-carrying airplane operations where a proposed flight plan includes any point that is greater than 180 minutes from an adequate airport (at an approved one-engine inoperative cruise speed under standard conditions in still air)."

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/120-42B.pdf

edit ... OK. Birdsmash beat me to it by less than a minute!

Birdsmash
08-11-2018, 06:47 AM
Due to the redundancy built into the design of ETOPS capable aircraft and the increased MX requirements, there are less MX delays. When items are deferred they are usually fixed sooner. That is nice from a pilot standpoint.

maxjet
08-11-2018, 07:40 AM
Not quite correct. At least not correct any more. And, I know some ACMI carriers only carry freight, so this wouldn't apply but the FAA has redefined the ETOPS acronym to mean "Extended Operations" thus removing the "Two Engine" words from the title. It now applies to the 747 ... but only when carrying passengers.

"Even though for continuity with current two-engine ETOPS the existing acronym ETOPS is retained, the ETOPS acronym has been re-defined. ETOPS has been expanded to include all passenger-carrying airplane operations where a proposed flight plan includes any point that is greater than 180 minutes from an adequate airport (at an approved one-engine inoperative cruise speed under standard conditions in still air)."

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/120-42B.pdf

edit ... OK. Birdsmash beat me to it by less than a minute!

Thank you for clarifying for our uninformed friends😀

Texxx
08-11-2018, 07:45 AM
Thank you for clarifying for our uninformed friends😀

Are K4s 76s ETOP?

Riverside
08-11-2018, 07:50 AM
Are K4s 76s ETOP?

Read post #85

Texxx
08-11-2018, 07:54 AM
Read post #85

Thanks....

goinaround
08-11-2018, 08:49 AM
Not quite correct. At least not correct any more. And, I know some ACMI carriers only carry freight, so this wouldn't apply but the FAA has redefined the ETOPS acronym to mean "Extended Operations" thus removing the "Two Engine" words from the title. It now applies to the 747 ... but only when carrying passengers.

"Even though for continuity with current two-engine ETOPS the existing acronym ETOPS is retained, the ETOPS acronym has been re-defined. ETOPS has been expanded to include all passenger-carrying airplane operations where a proposed flight plan includes any point that is greater than 180 minutes from an adequate airport (at an approved one-engine inoperative cruise speed under standard conditions in still air)."

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/120-42B.pdf

edit ... OK. Birdsmash beat me to it by less than a minute!

Yeah thats what I didn't quite understand. I've always understood ETOPS to be for twin engine operations only.

HercDriver130
08-11-2018, 09:50 AM
Are K4s 76s ETOP?

NO..............

Hogcapt
08-11-2018, 11:36 AM
Yeah thats what I didn't quite understand. I've always understood ETOPS to be for twin engine operations only.

My company's policy is the passenger 747 operations remain within 180 minutes of a diversion airport. Not required on a freighter.

So it may be more company policy rather than FAR's

gollum
08-11-2018, 11:56 AM
Link to the INFO paper on changes to ETOPS requirements:

Part 121
ē All two-engine airplanes more than 60 minutes flying time from an adequate airport (at a one-engine-inoperative cruise speed under standard conditions in still air).
ē All passenger-carrying airplanes with more than two engines and more than 180 minutes flying time from an adequate airport (at a one-engine-inoperative cruise speed under standard conditions in still air).

https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/info/all_infos/media/2007/inFO07004.pdf

4runner
08-11-2018, 12:59 PM
Some 767ís use 747 motors. When the motor is no longer suitable for ETOPS for whatever reason, they hang them on 747ís. Boom, cheap engine for you 74.

4runner
11-01-2018, 03:05 PM
Whoís the toilet lady? I know of Lamp lady. LAMPS!!!!

Ok. Toilet lady and Lamp Lady are one in the same. A source close to the offending person confirm all rumors. She ate in the toilet and stole copious amounts of food from the breakfast buffet.

Iamthewalrus
12-28-2018, 04:16 AM
Anyone have first hand knowledge of if Omni has zed/ID90s with anyone, and if so, on whom?

Also of Kalitta, Omni, and Atlas which tends to do less of Asia and more of Africa/Middle-east?

Thank you!

Locke
12-28-2018, 04:20 AM
Also of Kalitta, Omni, and Atlas which tends to do less of Asia and more of Africa/Middle-east?

Thank you!

It isnít Kalitta. Iím constantly in China/Hong Kong/Korea

atpcliff
12-28-2018, 06:48 AM
Western Global does Africa. Atlas 747 JFK, ORD, CVG, MIA reserve or 767JFK does middle East. I would guess Omni also does ME w their troop flying...

hubbs
12-28-2018, 06:59 AM
Anyone have first hand knowledge of if Omni has zed/ID90s with anyone, and if so, on whom?

Also of Kalitta, Omni, and Atlas which tends to do less of Asia and more of Africa/Middle-east?

Thank you!

Omni has no ZED/ID90s, but does have travel benefits with United that kick in after 1 year. I believe they are at a higher priority and cheaper than ZEDs.

JohnBurke
12-28-2018, 07:45 AM
Western Global does Africa.

With one airplane.

aviatorhi
12-28-2018, 08:48 AM
OAI is about 70% ME flying - EU flying (apart from stuff in North America).

Cujo665
12-28-2018, 10:46 AM
What makes you place WGA over Omni?

Yeah, no kidding. WG has improved greatly, but Omni is still the better deal.

First year FO guarantee pay is $700 a month more at Omni
Top CA pay is $7,000 a month more at Omni.

Western Global definately improved to be a real job, but it’s still short of K4, Omni and about even with ATI I think. ATI starts a bit lower, but CA pay goes a bit higher than WG, so it looks about even.

Cujo665
12-28-2018, 11:02 AM
Anyone have first hand knowledge of if Omni has zed/ID90s with anyone, and if so, on whom?

Thank you!

Youíre going to be executive platinum, mosaic, emerald and every other top tier travel program in short order at K4 or Omni where you get upgraded seating on long international flights. Those rack up points like mad. Youíll never use Standby or zeds ever again. Just cash in some award points for real tickets for your family vacation. Do the same for your vacation hotels.

K4 and Omni both have jumpseat agreements with just about everybody.

Iamthewalrus
12-29-2018, 10:22 AM
Great info yaíll! Thank you so much!

Regional guy here thatís burned out of Midwest overnights and really just needs a change of pace. Got into this job to see the world, not just North Dakota. Been chatting with some alumni from my current airline that are at Atlas that say I would love the schedule, destinations and lifestyle.

Just wanted to pick yíalls brains on the right fit. Currently living in LA and understand all three (kalitta, Omni and Atlas) are home based, but is any one of the three better for quality of life out of LA?

I have read enough of the forums to know better then to ask a typical schedule. But Iím curious if being this far west will doom me to exclusively Asia and Oceania flying. I would prefer to fly to places that I would never consider going to on vacation but from conversations Iíve had it seems most those locations launch from the east coast.

Lastly I plan on renting cars, kayaks, sailboats, motorcycles and getting out on the overnights. Of the three, which would be more conducive to an adventurous lifestyle?

Hope these questions stir some interesting debate! Iíve already poured through the monetary pros and cons and know my order in preference with all things being equal. Just looking for which one will lead to the best bar stories later in life.

Happy New Year!

Cujo665
12-29-2018, 11:18 AM
Great info ya’ll! Thank you so much!

Regional guy here that’s burned out of Midwest overnights and really just needs a change of pace. Got into this job to see the world, not just North Dakota. Been chatting with some alumni from my current airline that are at Atlas that say I would love the schedule, destinations and lifestyle.

Just wanted to pick y’alls brains on the right fit. Currently living in LA and understand all three (kalitta, Omni and Atlas) are home based, but is any one of the three better for quality of life out of LA?

I have read enough of the forums to know better then to ask a typical schedule. But I’m curious if being this far west will doom me to exclusively Asia and Oceania flying. I would prefer to fly to places that I would never consider going to on vacation but from conversations I’ve had it seems most those locations launch from the east coast.

Lastly I plan on renting cars, kayaks, sailboats, motorcycles and getting out on the overnights. Of the three, which would be more conducive to an adventurous lifestyle?

Hope these questions stir some interesting debate! I’ve already poured through the monetary pros and cons and know my order in preference with all things being equal. Just looking for which one will lead to the best bar stories later in life.

Happy New Year!

Doesn’t matter, they’ll fly you to the plane from wherever you live. I’ve seen them fly guys that live in Vegas to Boston to do a contract airline charter, and at the same time fly a guy from Massachusetts to Vegas to go fill in on a Hawaii run.

Lots more time off at the RON’s with Omni. Average guy flys 25-45 hours a month and takes the 64 guarantee. The rest of the time is in various cities on short or long call reserve. Plenty of time to go sightseeing. You’ll make more money at Kalitta, but will fly 2-3 times the hours monthly.

Checkers21
12-29-2018, 07:06 PM
Great info yaíll! Thank you so much!

Regional guy here thatís burned out of Midwest overnights and really just needs a change of pace. Got into this job to see the world, not just North Dakota. Been chatting with some alumni from my current airline that are at Atlas that say I would love the schedule, destinations and lifestyle.

Just wanted to pick yíalls brains on the right fit. Currently living in LA and understand all three (kalitta, Omni and Atlas) are home based, but is any one of the three better for quality of life out of LA?

I have read enough of the forums to know better then to ask a typical schedule. But Iím curious if being this far west will doom me to exclusively Asia and Oceania flying. I would prefer to fly to places that I would never consider going to on vacation but from conversations Iíve had it seems most those locations launch from the east coast.

Lastly I plan on renting cars, kayaks, sailboats, motorcycles and getting out on the overnights. Of the three, which would be more conducive to an adventurous lifestyle?

Hope these questions stir some interesting debate! Iíve already poured through the monetary pros and cons and know my order in preference with all things being equal. Just looking for which one will lead to the best bar stories later in life.

Happy New Year!

My friends at Atlas are not happy. The ones at Atlas who are on the 767 are miserable. Donít know much about Omni but didnít AtSG or someone just buy them? Things are going really well at K4, everyone seems to be happy with the money and growth.

Colt45
12-29-2018, 07:29 PM
My friends at Atlas are not happy. The ones at Atlas who are on the 767 are miserable. Donít know much about Omni but didnít AtSG or someone just buy them? Things are going really well at K4, everyone seems to be happy with the money and growth.

Canít speak for the other two places but I have always enjoyed my time at K4, even before our new contract. Never had a problem with anyone in management, training, or crew members. Sometimes I get a little irritated by the schedule and bid packets but other than that, itís a great company.

WhipWhitaker
12-30-2018, 01:02 AM
My friends at Atlas are not happy. The ones at Atlas who are on the 767 are miserable. Donít know much about Omni but didnít AtSG or someone just buy them? Things are going really well at K4, everyone seems to be happy with the money and growth.

Plenty of happy people at Atlas/Southern. Plenty of unhappy too, thatís what happens with this large of a pilot group. YMMV. Hard to get the real scoop on anything here when the 1% shout so loudly over the top of more reasonable points of view.

Packrat
12-30-2018, 07:32 AM
Doesn’t matter, they’ll fly you to the plane from wherever you live. I’ve seen them fly guys that live in Vegas to Boston to do a contract airline charter, and at the same time fly a guy from Massachusetts to Vegas to go fill in on a Hawaii run.

Lots more time off at the RON’s with Omni. Average guy flys 25-45 hours a month and takes the 64 guarantee. The rest of the time is in various cities on short or long call reserve. Plenty of time to go sightseeing. You’ll make more money at Kalitta, but will fly 2-3 times the hours monthly.

I had Omni fly me from LAS to Kuwait to start a trip. You'll fly 300-400 hours a year at Omni but that includes 3rd and 4th pilot time.

Ghost Pilot
12-30-2018, 10:19 AM
Lastly I plan on renting cars, kayaks, sailboats, motorcycles and getting out on the overnights. Of the three, which would be more conducive to an adventurous lifestyle?

As far as the K4 74 goes, opportunities for the type of adventures youíre interested in will appear every now and then, but realistically you will spend much of your downtime tired and jet lagged. Luckily you will have plenty of adventure time during your two week breaks between trips.

No Land 3
12-30-2018, 11:38 AM
As far as the K4 74 goes, opportunities for the type of adventures youíre interested in will appear every now and then, but realistically you will spend much of your downtime tired and jet lagged. Luckily you will have plenty of adventure time during your two week breaks between trips.
I just literally slept 18 hours during my 1 in 7.