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View Full Version : Republic vs. PSA


planesense
08-04-2018, 09:08 PM
I love the things I hear/read about Republic, and I already have an interview scheduled in a few weeks. However, I'm a little concerned about a few things...

I live close to BNA, have a family and am not interested in moving. So I'll be commuting, but to where most likely? I don't necessarily mind the idea of commuting, but I'm concerned about reserve time, as that would definitely take me away from home a lot more.

I understand I can expect to upgrade in around 2 years, so what will that mean as far as bases go? I know FO junior/senior bases aren't usually the same as CA junior/senior bases.

Another option I have is PSA, which has a crew base 2.5 hours drive time from me (TYS). I'm hearing some negative things about PSA, and I hear mostly positive things about Republic, but with QOL being my number one consideration, I'm wondering if I'd be better off living close to base. I'm told I could easily get the TYS base right out of training, but then I've also heard that PSA forces upgrades and makes people change their bases.

As a side note, my current long-term goal is to fly for SWA.

Appreciate any advice on this... a little bewildered with all the information I'm trying to ingest!


bscott58d
08-04-2018, 09:27 PM
I love the things I hear/read about Republic, and I already have an interview scheduled in a few weeks. However, I'm a little concerned about a few things...

I live close to BNA, have a family and am not interested in moving. So I'll be commuting, but to where most likely? I don't necessarily mind the idea of commuting, but I'm concerned about reserve time, as that would definitely take me away from home a lot more.

I understand I can expect to upgrade in around 2 years, so what will that mean as far as bases go? I know FO junior/senior bases aren't usually the same as CA junior/senior bases.

Another option I have is PSA, which has a crew base 2.5 hours drive time from me (TYS). I'm hearing some negative things about PSA, and I hear mostly positive things about Republic, but with QOL being my number one consideration, I'm wondering if I'd be better off living close to base. I'm told I could easily get the TYS base right out of training, but then I've also heard that PSA forces upgrades and makes people change their bases.

As a side note, my current long-term goal is to fly for SWA.

Appreciate any advice on this... a little bewildered with all the information I'm trying to ingest!

Guys that started in our 4 Dec class are just now holding round two lines in TYS. I can tell you reserve at PSA is less than (way less) than ideal. Our contract is not very well written which leads to scheduling doing basically whatever they want to you. Iíve had reserve Iíve flown a decent amount, some Iíve done squat, some where I wasnít able to commute home after sitting the first few days and flying the last day of reserve. That doesnít count changes to flying while out. Itís a mixed bag to say the least and a common compliant from the pilot group. crews Iíve flown with have all be more than professional and personable though.
That said between the two my rec goes to Republic.

chrisreedrules
08-05-2018, 05:19 AM
Iíve flown with several FOs who have said, ďI wish I went to RepublicĒ.

I have enjoyed a relatively smoothe ride at PSA. But I was hired at a different time and things have changed quite a bit. At the end of the day, both are solid options. If you choose PSA you will have the flow generating constant churn above you on the seniority list. If you choose Republic you will enjoy a much better contract and pay.


Irishblackbird
08-05-2018, 12:28 PM
Go to Republic, better contract, better pay, better reserve rules. I've heard a few FO''s and newly forced CA''s who say they going to leave. You will move up the seniority list fast your first year at PSA then it will slow as you reach CA. As more pilots get within a few years of flow many abandone their job search an just stick it out. This will increase your reserve time as a CA. If you are lookin at TYS, know it is a pretty senior base, they have no hot reserve, but I think the call out is an hour for short call, don't think you'll be able to do that from BNA with a 2.5 hour drive.

I have been fortunate in that I have enjoyed my time here so far, but worry about the direction of things in the future. Round 1 qol is awesome because of SAP, but our pairings are crap and low credit and you will need to adjust to get the credit you want. You'll get to experience it for maybe a year then you will be forced to upgrade and likely be on reserve for at least 1.5 -2 years. No one here knows for sure what will happen to the scheduling system and we may be getting PBS. That being said we will probably lose a lot of flexibility with our SAP. Furthermore there appears to be a degradation in the processing times of our SAP, and the company and union don't seem concerned with fixing it.

Just about everyone wants to get to the next level in their careers, that being said go somewhere you will have the the best QOL if you get stuck. We have nothing contractual here with our bonus and our hourly rates are lagging, if something happens to slow the industry down, things could get bad in a hurry.

One last thing to consider, is that our union is wothless.

ORD170
08-05-2018, 12:31 PM
If your long term goal is LUV, then go to Republic. Southwest loves Republic captains. Try and get into the training department as a sim instructor, which will greatly increase your chances of moving on. No idea how senior DCA is at Republic, but thats an easy commute to BNA.

Captain Slow
08-06-2018, 04:55 AM
DC is mid seniority for FOís (you may be on reserve for a few months) and fairly junior for captains.

ItnStln
08-07-2018, 06:51 PM
Iíve flown on both this week, and will do so again next week, and my opinion between the two has changed. Iím looking at both as well as I live near DCA, but PSA still has the flow to American which is factored into my decision as well.

Irishblackbird
08-07-2018, 07:42 PM
Iíve flown on both this week, and will do so again next week, and my opinion between the two has changed. Iím looking at both as well as I live near DCA, but PSA still has the flow to American which is factored into my decision as well.

Factoring the flow into your decision should be the last thing on your list if should even be a factor at all. You will be over 1800 on the seniority list at PSA. Currently our flow is 10 a month and American doesn't run a class in Dec. Conservatively speaking without any outside attrition that would be 16 years. Throw in some attrition and maybe you get down to 10 years. I think it is disingenuous how our recruiters showcase the flow. In all likelihood you could be hired at a major long before your flow.

Best to compare pay, work rules, reserve, growth, and qol.

bscott58d
08-07-2018, 08:09 PM
Factoring the flow into your decision should be the last thing on your list if should even be a factor at all. You will be over 1800 on the seniority list at PSA. Currently our flow is 10 a month and American doesn't run a class in Dec. Conservatively speaking without any outside attrition that would be 16 years. Throw in some attrition and maybe you get down to 10 years. I think it is disingenuous how our recruiters showcase the flow. In all likelihood you could be hired at a major long before your flow.

Best to compare pay, work rules, reserve, growth, and qol.

^^^ this is a very solid way of looking at it

ItnStln
08-08-2018, 02:07 AM
Factoring the flow into your decision should be the last thing on your list if should even be a factor at all. You will be over 1800 on the seniority list at PSA. Currently our flow is 10 a month and American doesn't run a class in Dec. Conservatively speaking without any outside attrition that would be 16 years. Throw in some attrition and maybe you get down to 10 years. I think it is disingenuous how our recruiters showcase the flow. In all likelihood you could be hired at a major long before your flow.

Best to compare pay, work rules, reserve, growth, and qol.

Well said, and thank you! My intention from the beginning was to use the flow as a backup, but given your numbers itís really tipping the scale in Republicís favor. My plan was to get hired at a Regional and keep applying to the Majors, but with the numbers you posted if I went to PSA and flowed Iíd be just shy of 50 and at that point I probably wouldnít want to flow and start over.

ItnStln
08-08-2018, 02:07 AM
^^^ this is a very solid way of looking at it

It really is! Thatís why I joined this forum, to get real answers from real employees and not recruiters.

pilot2804
08-08-2018, 04:36 AM
Thereís also 14 flights a day from BNA to LGA soooo

flywithjohn
08-08-2018, 06:18 AM
Honestly if you want to be a BNA commuter - Endeavor. NYC has 14 flights a day, ATL has 18 direct flights and 7 more options. Also you only have to try ounce before your positive space. Forget PSA with TYS 2.5 hours drive time is a crap commute. 9E pay and QOL is higher too.

greendotplus10
08-08-2018, 09:04 AM
The wholly owned flow wasn't, and still isn't a deal breaker in my mind. Most can move on to bigger and better things in less time than flow to AA; especially true for me because the major's aren't necessarily my end goal.

Republic has exceeded my expectations in most areas. There's a little to be desired in regards to bases and upgrades, but it's worth it for me to stick around and see what happens. For FOs, you can be awarded every base except MIA and IAH soon after training. MIA and IAH take a few more months. Once you are where you want it's yours to keep.

Upgrade time is a little higher than most other regionals, but is coming down. No forced upgrades because we're short on FOs and not CAs. The wholly owneds have the opposite problem, which is why they force upgrades and displace folks off their bids. If you want earliest available upgrade, that means LGA or EWR. Folks can wait a little longer and can get DCA or PIT from the start. Upgrade is still driven by seniority rather than having your 1000 SIC 121 and 2500TT.

bscott58d
08-08-2018, 01:36 PM
The wholly owned flow wasn't, and still isn't a deal breaker in my mind. Most can move on to bigger and better things in less time than flow to AA; especially true for me because the major's aren't necessarily my end goal.

Republic has exceeded my expectations in most areas. There's a little to be desired in regards to bases and upgrades, but it's worth it for me to stick around and see what happens. For FOs, you can be awarded every base except MIA and IAH soon after training. MIA and IAH take a few more months. Once you are where you want it's yours to keep.

Upgrade time is a little higher than most other regionals, but is coming down. No forced upgrades because we're short on FOs and not CAs. The wholly owneds have the opposite problem, which is why they force upgrades and displace folks off their bids. If you want earliest available upgrade, that means LGA or EWR. Folks can wait a little longer and can get DCA or PIT from the start. Upgrade is still driven by seniority rather than having your 1000 SIC 121 and 2500TT.

If you had one or two negatives about Republic what would they be? Did my interview with E9 today and am thankful I have the option of choosing between the two now. Just want to let the decision be a solid choice as I move from PSA.

TheWeatherman
08-08-2018, 03:25 PM
If you had one or two negatives about Republic what would they be? Did my interview with E9 today and am thankful I have the option of choosing between the two now. Just want to let the decision be a solid choice as I move from PSA.
No Flow
Stagnant seniority list near the top



I think both may be a non issue within a few years. I think every place will have some type of flow set up as the Regionals consolidate. Also with upcoming retirements there should be some more movement at the top of the seniority list.

greendotplus10
08-09-2018, 09:53 AM
If you had one or two negatives about Republic what would they be? Did my interview with E9 today and am thankful I have the option of choosing between the two now. Just want to let the decision be a solid choice as I move from PSA.

Basically what I already mentioned. I don't care for the junior CA bases, and holding a more favorable base as CA might just take too long. Then again, all of the regionals have these same junior CA bases. Mainline junior bases are even worse, even as an FO.

But, in the time it takes for upgrade to roll around these metrics could change.

joefly
08-09-2018, 10:20 AM
Which will be fastest to get PHL base...Republic or PSA?

intherightseat
08-09-2018, 11:13 AM
Which will be fastest to get PHL base...Republic or PSA?


From reading around and searching the threads, youíll find that people are reportedly getting any base they want (with the exclusion of MIA and IAH) by the time theyíre done with OE.

Based off of the ďBase DropsĒ thread, most recent line holder is a March hire - that means around a month or two out of training to hold a line.

I have to give a lot of credit to the overall vibe in the YX threads - people generally stay clear of politics and provide reliable, up to date info. Search around a bit and itís almost guaranteed youíll find the answer [emoji106]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

twebb
08-09-2018, 11:19 AM
Which will be fastest to get PHL base...Republic or PSA?

5/15 hire. After IOE, I will have 2 months before I will be phl based.

Mdrungu
09-06-2018, 08:08 PM
SO appreciate the Forum and this awesome thread.

I live 40 min from CLT, have several CJO’s w/ regionals. Thoughts on whether best to commute from CLT to some Republic base? Or join PSA and hope to get CLT? Flow is not a big deal to me – hoping to get current and move along before flow would factor. Max QoL guy.

Grateful in advance for your wisdom and advice!

greendotplus10
09-06-2018, 10:11 PM
SO appreciate the Forum and this awesome thread.

I live 40 min from CLT, have several CJOís w/ regionals. Thoughts on whether best to commute from CLT to some Republic base? Or join PSA and hope to get CLT? Flow is not a big deal to me Ė hoping to get current and move along before flow would factor. Max QoL guy.

Grateful in advance for your wisdom and advice!

How to achieve max QOL is going to be different for each person. Republic has one of the better contracts and thus better work rules. But, it might not be worth it if you'll always be stuck with a commute to/from CLT. If it were me I'd be trying to avoid the commute, but the decision isn't as simple as choosing an airline that has a CLT base. I do believe CLT is senior at PSA. Consider the base seniority as both FO and CA. You might be able to get in very easily as an FO but then the next thing you know you are force upgraded into EWR (that place sucks) and/or it takes many additional years of seniority to be able to hold CLT again.

I live in base and always have. Once you taste living in base, there's no going back to the commute (for me anyway). Some guys hardly complain though. I was flying with a captain recently who had been doing a two leg commute across most of the country...for over 10 years.

chrisreedrules
09-08-2018, 05:58 PM
SO appreciate the Forum and this awesome thread.

I live 40 min from CLT, have several CJOís w/ regionals. Thoughts on whether best to commute from CLT to some Republic base? Or join PSA and hope to get CLT? Flow is not a big deal to me Ė hoping to get current and move along before flow would factor. Max QoL guy.

Grateful in advance for your wisdom and advice!

Neither are great options for you truthfully...

CLT is a big American and PSA/soon to be growing Piedmont base. WO regional pilots and of course mainline have a very large amount of pilots that commute to/from CLT and you will go behind them on the priority list. In an age of oversold flights and cheaper economy fairs not having priority for the jumpseat will become a drag real quick if you chose to live in CLT and commute to a RAH base.

On the other hand if you decided to go with PSA for the CLT base, you should do so knowing that it is the most senior base at PSA. You may not be able to hold CLT right out of training (Iím not 100% positive about this). It will likely take you a year+ to hold a line as an FO. And just about the time youíre enjoying the quality of life being a senior FO living in base affords you, youíll be senior-manned into an upgrade to CA. Likely around the 2 year mark. Then youíll be forced out of CLT and forced to commute to ORF, DAY, or wherever else you choose to sit reserve. And it likely wonít be until your 4th or maybe 5th year at PSA that youíll have a line in CLT. CLT grew by about 10 lines for September 2018 but as I understand it the overall plan is for PSA to somewhat shrink their footprint in CLT beginning mid-2019 while Piedmont grows their 145 operation there. That isnít 100% confirmed but thatís the latest plan as I heard it.

Iím not telling you one option is better than the other because honestly neither are good if you ask me. If CLT and PSA were your goals being hired in 2014/2015 would have been the sweet spot. If RAH is your choice commuting in and out of CLT wonít be very fun despite the frequency of flights.

Mdrungu
11-01-2018, 07:20 PM
Neither are great options for you truthfully...

CLT is a big American and PSA/soon to be growing Piedmont base. WO regional pilots and of course mainline have a very large amount of pilots that commute to/from CLT and you will go behind them on the priority list. In an age of oversold flights and cheaper economy fairs not having priority for the jumpseat will become a drag real quick if you chose to live in CLT and commute to a RAH base.

On the other hand if you decided to go with PSA for the CLT base, you should do so knowing that it is the most senior base at PSA. You may not be able to hold CLT right out of training (Iím not 100% positive about this). It will likely take you a year+ to hold a line as an FO. And just about the time youíre enjoying the quality of life being a senior FO living in base affords you, youíll be senior-manned into an upgrade to CA. Likely around the 2 year mark. Then youíll be forced out of CLT and forced to commute to ORF, DAY, or wherever else you choose to sit reserve. And it likely wonít be until your 4th or maybe 5th year at PSA that youíll have a line in CLT. CLT grew by about 10 lines for September 2018 but as I understand it the overall plan is for PSA to somewhat shrink their footprint in CLT beginning mid-2019 while Piedmont grows their 145 operation there. That isnít 100% confirmed but thatís the latest plan as I heard it.

Iím not telling you one option is better than the other because honestly neither are good if you ask me. If CLT and PSA were your goals being hired in 2014/2015 would have been the sweet spot. If RAH is your choice commuting in and out of CLT wonít be very fun despite the frequency of flights.
Thanks for the great advice - went w/ RJet. Now what? Bid for CMH, PIT, DCA? I'll be commuting from CLT so hoping to minimize time on reserve, fewer but longer trips, etc. Thx in advance!

FlyGood
11-01-2018, 07:28 PM
Maybe hold off on DC until you can get a line but thereís a solid number of commuters between CLT and DC and I never seem to hear of a problem. Reserve at YX is starting to lengthen a bit with the slight hiring boom this year. I have no idea how long youíll be on reserve or what bases have the shortest reserve time.

chrisreedrules
11-02-2018, 02:37 AM
Thanks for the great advice - went w/ RJet. Now what? Bid for CMH, PIT, DCA? I'll be commuting from CLT so hoping to minimize time on reserve, fewer but longer trips, etc. Thx in advance!

There are quite a few CLT-DCA and CLT-PIT commuters. CMH may be a good option. DCA isnít too terrible but Iíve seen the non-rev list 30+ deep on flights between the two.

It looks like Sunday-Friday 8 flights /day on AA/Eagle CLT-CMH with the first flight at 7:30AM. Last flight out of CMH to CLT is at 7:45/8:00PM except on Saturdays it looks like 6:00PM. Saturdayís it looks like 5 flights CLT-CMH.

IFlyThings
11-02-2018, 04:43 AM
Thanks for the great advice - went w/ RJet. Now what? Bid for CMH, PIT, DCA? I'll be commuting from CLT so hoping to minimize time on reserve, fewer but longer trips, etc. Thx in advance!

Welcome to Republic!

IND and CMH are receiving the most FOs at the moment, and if the trend continues, that will push you out of Reserve rapidly. DCA is running more senior, a classmate of mine with 14 months seniority got a composite line this month (blended line and reserve).

However, keep in mind that hiring patterns and base assignments change with the whims of Management, and what I say today may not hold true for tomorrow.

OffAtTango
11-02-2018, 08:38 AM
I would bid for CMH. I finished training back at the end of July, finished IOE about halfway through August, and held a 92 credit hour line in September. The only issue with CMH is that most trips start very early, requiring you to get there the before, and there are practically zero crashpads. Most FO's I know stay at Days Inn for $40/night or the Hampton Inn for $70/night.

Tpinks
11-02-2018, 05:41 PM
Another option would be EWR. I believe we operate all EWR-CLT flights, but I could be wrong on that. It seems like I'm in CLT all the time though from EWR.

Don't do PIT though. PIT-CLT is one of the heaviest commuted flights in the entire AA system as a lot of the USAir people stayed in PIT after the dehubbing and now either commute to CLT or PHL. I've seen those flights have well into the upper 30's, or higher, non-revs listed.

FlyingSlowly
11-02-2018, 07:22 PM
Thanks for the great advice - went w/ RJet. Now what? Bid for CMH, PIT, DCA? I'll be commuting from CLT so hoping to minimize time on reserve, fewer but longer trips, etc. Thx in advance!

Yeah...I'm with PSA, but I know CLT.

For commuting from CLT, go with CMH. It's basically us and you guys on that route. Probably no one from PSA will commute either direction on that route, they'll drive to DAY instead. And even the last-out A319 has 2 jumpseats if you have to come in to CMH the night before. First priority on your jumpseat and very little competition for ours, if it comes to that...

Passrider.com is your friend:
https://i.imgur.com/V9yC66f.png

Flyjay342
11-03-2018, 09:32 AM
If you are interested in any of the DC carriers BNA is very easy to commute out of. Iím EDV and commuted out of BNA for awhile before I moved and it was no hassle. Plus our commuter policy says if you give yourself two flight options and dont make the first you get positive space on the second flight if its DL and thats unlimited no questions asked.

Pay is also very nice canít ignore that.

Jungle Jim
11-03-2018, 10:12 AM
If you are interested in any of the DC carriers BNA is very easy to commute out of. Iím EDV and commuted out of BNA for awhile before I moved and it was no hassle. Plus our commuter policy says if you give yourself two flight options and dont make the first you get positive space on the second flight if its DL and thats unlimited no questions asked.

Pay is also very nice canít ignore that.

Other than pay, why the hell would anyone want to go to EDV right now? Overstaffed offering TOWOP for the next ??? months on top of already seemingly endless amount of time on rsv. The extra few bux an hour aren't worth that nonsense. I'd rather be flying with the opportunity to go over min guarantee and hold a line than sit around waiting for the growth that's been promised over there that clearly doesn't exist.

KelvinHelmholtz
11-03-2018, 10:24 AM
Other than pay, why the hell would anyone want to go to EDV right now? Overstaffed offering TOWOP for the next ??? months on top of already seemingly endless amount of time on rsv. The extra few bux an hour aren't worth that nonsense. I'd rather be flying with the opportunity to go over min guarantee and hold a line than sit around waiting for the growth that's been promised over there that clearly doesn't exist.

Doesnít Republic have months of training delays? Why would anyone want to go be on the back of a hiring wave while sitting reserve in some outstation. Republics ďgrowthĒ doesnít clearly exist either considering scope limits that majors have.

Longhornmaniac8
11-03-2018, 11:57 AM
Doesnít Republic have months of training delays? Why would anyone want to go be on the back of a hiring wave while sitting reserve in some outstation. Republics ďgrowthĒ doesnít clearly exist either considering scope limits that majors have.

Back end of a hiring wave? What makes you think this hiring will stop any time soon? It's going to get worse before it gets better, everywhere.

Training delay is an issue, currently about 2.5 months, but we are paid min guarantee after first 30 days. It could be a lot worse.

Reserve times are pretty short at everywhere but EWR and DCA, and both are shorter than EDV. I think someone starting now at EDV sitting reserve for a year with no training delay will fly less than a YX pilot with a 2.5 month delay, but will hold a line 2-3 months after IOE.

Growth is uncertain, but there is room for some growth at AA if they optimize the 170s as "small RJs." I'd rather be at YX than just about anywhere else in the regional market when it comes to stability and growth potential at the expense of other regionals.

Jungle Jim
11-03-2018, 03:52 PM
Doesnít Republic have months of training delays? Why would anyone want to go be on the back of a hiring wave while sitting reserve in some outstation. Republics ďgrowthĒ doesnít clearly exist either considering scope limits that majors have.

Well let's see...what would you rather do? Go to Republic where they bring you in, tell the truth about the training delay, start accruing seniority, get sent home allowed to do outside flying while getting paid your min guarantee, then very likely be able to hold at least a composite by the time you get out of training to the line.

OR you could go to EDV, where the training delay is even longer, they don't start paying you until your class date comes up, then once you finally get out of training the better part of a year forward from your CJO, you're going to be rotting away in a basement at JFK or LGA sitting ready reserve flying occasionally if at all.

That's not even considering Republic vs Endeavor work rules.

I'm 6 weeks outside of training, live in a hub base, and have 80 hours of real flying in November - not a single day of reserve. That may not be the typical or average experience, but I can't complain. Oh and I'll never have to sit ready reserve in my career here because Republic.

BeatsWorking
11-03-2018, 06:18 PM
Well let's see...what would you rather do? Go to Republic where they bring you in, tell the truth about the training delay, start accruing seniority, get sent home allowed to do outside flying while getting paid your min guarantee, then very likely be able to hold at least a composite by the time you get out of training to the line.



OR you could go to EDV, where the training delay is even longer, they don't start paying you until your class date comes up, then once you finally get out of training the better part of a year forward from your CJO, you're going to be rotting away in a basement at JFK or LGA sitting ready reserve flying occasionally if at all.



That's not even considering Republic vs Endeavor work rules.



I'm 6 weeks outside of training, live in a hub base, and have 80 hours of real flying in November - not a single day of reserve. That may not be the typical or average experience, but I can't complain. Oh and I'll never have to sit ready reserve in my career here because Republic.



Finished OE in August. Four days of reserve. Total. Held a line September, October, November.

blindfayth
11-03-2018, 07:09 PM
You guys are making me regret going to EDV... I agonized over that decision for months.
I was told to expect *maybe* one month of commuting to sit reserve before I could (move to and) hold DTW.

I should have moved to one of RPA's cheaper Cost of living bases instead, and went with them. I wouldn't have had to commute, and reserve time would have been in weeks or days, not the 7-9 months i'll be looking at now that Delta has delayed the supposed "growth" that was supposed to happen.

Jungle Jim
11-03-2018, 07:12 PM
Finished OE in August. Four days of reserve. Total. Held a line September, October, November.

We have the same number of total reserve days! :D

BeatsWorking
11-03-2018, 07:48 PM
You guys are making me regret going to EDV... I agonized over that decision for months.
I was told to expect *maybe* one month of commuting to sit reserve before I could (move to and) hold DTW.

I should have moved to one of RPA's cheaper Cost of living bases instead, and went with them. I wouldn't have had to commute, and reserve time would have been in weeks or days, not the 7-9 months i'll be looking at now that Delta has delayed the supposed "growth" that was supposed to happen.



We all had the same options, just made a different choice. Itís very individualized. Thereís no secret recipe. I went Republic because of bases, the plane, and my career outlook.

I looked at EDV carefully, I just didn't think it fit me as well as YX. And I didn't want to wear the hat.

Which one of us has the better chance of working at a major someday? Today, I'd say you. Your reserve sentence might payoff big down the road.

chrisreedrules
11-03-2018, 08:09 PM
You guys are making me regret going to EDV... I agonized over that decision for months.
I was told to expect *maybe* one month of commuting to sit reserve before I could (move to and) hold DTW.

I should have moved to one of RPA's cheaper Cost of living bases instead, and went with them. I wouldn't have had to commute, and reserve time would have been in weeks or days, not the 7-9 months i'll be looking at now that Delta has delayed the supposed "growth" that was supposed to happen.

Welcome to the regionals. In the recent past pilots sat reserve for years and years at regional wages never making more than about $30,000-$35,000 /year. Itís all about perspective.

ICUROOK
11-04-2018, 07:22 AM
Welcome to the regionals. In the recent past pilots sat reserve for years and years at regional wages never making more than about $30,000-$35,000 /year. Itís all about perspective.

https://i.imgflip.com/xp3yu.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/xp3yu)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

Mdrungu
11-05-2018, 05:39 AM
Thanks to all of you guys who weighed in to help frame some big decisions - I'm very grateful. Cheers!

Mdrungu
03-25-2019, 07:18 PM
Thanks to all of you guys who weighed in to help frame some big decisions - I'm very grateful. Cheers!

Any newly assigned CMH FO's on freq? How's life? Reserve time (months) and expectations for flying during reserve periods? Crashpad/hotel/shelter recommendations? Commutability from CLT? Parking situation (at station or home airport)? Thanks in advance!

MrFriendly7
04-03-2019, 07:35 PM
Republic is the right choice right now. Like people said, shorter rsv by alot, work rules, not READY reserve (huge). I had offers from Endeavor, Skywest and Republic and thought about it forever! 😂.

dera
04-03-2019, 07:38 PM
Republic is the right choice right now. Like people said, shorter rsv by alot, work rules, not READY reserve (huge). I had offers from Endeavor, Skywest and Republic and thought about it forever! 😂.

Work rules, really? PSA has SAP for lineholders, and that pretty much trumps any work rule you can imagine.

dodsqubam
04-03-2019, 09:04 PM
PSA pay increase really ups their game. Iím waiting on a class date at Republic and Iíve already had 2 people I know from PSA contact me about applying. The new pay seems nice, but I liked the whole package from Republic. Am I being crazy by not really looking at PSA? I hadnít considered them before because of the lower pay and lack of trip/duty rigs. Now the pay is more than Republic, which makes them hard to ignore (got to pay back those student loans!)

TheWeatherman
04-03-2019, 10:06 PM
Work rules, really? PSA has SAP for lineholders, and that pretty much trumps any work rule you can imagine.
Wait, don't you work for Envoy? So what would you know about SAP and how good it is over at PSA? I've heard from more then one person that works there that it is nowhere as good as it used to be. btw, Republic has SAP now too.




On another note, congrats to PSA on the new pay raise! That can only mean good things for the rest of the industry.

TangoIndiaMike1
04-03-2019, 10:33 PM
PSA pay increase really ups their game. Iím waiting on a class date at Republic and Iíve already had 2 people I know from PSA contact me about applying. The new pay seems nice, but I liked the whole package from Republic. Am I being crazy by not really looking at PSA? I hadnít considered them before because of the lower pay and lack of trip/duty rigs. Now the pay is more than Republic, which makes them hard to ignore (got to pay back those student loans!)



FO pay is greater. PSA captain pay is only a few bucks less the Republic. Republics contract is up for early negotiations at the end of the year.


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MrFriendly7
04-03-2019, 11:00 PM
Dont psa got crj 200s. That 15 min flight time life! 6-8 legs a day, screw that.

chrisreedrules
04-04-2019, 02:02 AM
Dont psa got crj 200s. That 15 min flight time life! 6-8 legs a day, screw that.

The funny thing about the 200 is that we frequently utilize it on longer legs than the 7/900! :D

BosoxH60
04-04-2019, 02:43 AM
PSA pay increase really ups their game. Iím waiting on a class date at Republic and Iíve already had 2 people I know from PSA contact me about applying. The new pay seems nice, but I liked the whole package from Republic. Am I being crazy by not really looking at PSA? I hadnít considered them before because of the lower pay and lack of trip/duty rigs. Now the pay is more than Republic, which makes them hard to ignore (got to pay back those student loans!)

Donít chase a few dollars pay. Itís < $5 per hour. Jump for a marked improvement. Living in base? Commuting? Whatís the reserve time you could expect? Work rules? They still donít have trip or duty rigs.

With the full classes at Republic right now, that is something to consider. It might be worth it to you to switch over in order to start sooner.

BaconPilot
04-04-2019, 04:00 AM
The funny thing about the 200 is that we frequently utilize it on longer legs than the 7/900! :D

That doesn't seem like something to brag about

chrisreedrules
04-04-2019, 05:11 AM
That doesn't seem like something to brag about

Iím not bragging, I just think itís kind of funny.

4V14T0R
04-04-2019, 05:14 AM
Deleted.


Filler.

Swakid8
04-04-2019, 05:59 AM
Wait, don't you work for Envoy? So what would you know about SAP and how good it is over at PSA? I've heard from more then one person that works there that it is nowhere as good as it used to be. btw, Republic has SAP now too.




On another note, congrats to PSA on the new pay raise! That can only mean good things for the rest of the industry.

But I do, SAP is still a great tool to have as a line holder to the get the days off that you want you need. Granted, SAP trades have have long processing times which is a issue, but I managed to work with it and SAP successfully since the holidays.

Irishblackbird
04-05-2019, 10:37 AM
Iím not bragging, I just think itís kind of funny.

Yep, if you want a productive line bid the 200. If you like 16 hour 4 day trips bid the 700/900. What really rubs my fur the wrong way is skywest and republic both have round trips to DFW out of DAY. But we love flying or 900s CLT-GSO or CLT-GSP.

Viking6
04-05-2019, 11:10 AM
Payrates are a small part of a CBA. Soft pay is where you can really make your money. Looks like PSA will be getting premium pay above 75 And Republics yellow flag for all flying above 85. Of the flow works, then Republic will have to at least match PSA. Also I believe during SAP PSA can drop below 75, which is not allowed at Republic. Definitely major improvements for PSA, which should help all of us.

4V14T0R
04-05-2019, 02:13 PM
Payrates are a small part of a CBA. Soft pay is where you can really make your money. Looks like PSA will be getting premium pay above 75 And Republics yellow flag for all flying above 85. Of the flow works, then Republic will have to at least match PSA. Also I believe during SAP PSA can drop below 75, which is not allowed at Republic. Definitely major improvements for PSA, which should help all of us.



Republic doesnít get yellow for above 85. Itís 125% for above 87 and thatís block and DH not credit so itís pretty difficult.


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Viking6
04-06-2019, 05:05 PM
Republic doesnít get yellow for above 85. Itís 125% for above 87 and thatís block and DH not credit so itís pretty difficult.


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Drunk posting never works for me...
What I was attempting to post was I believe PSA will be getting 150% above 85 hours, which is much better then our current incentive pay. On paper Republics incentive pay looks impressive, but for most it means very little. Very few get red or yellow flag pay, the the 125% above 87 is pretty hard to get.

Basically we may have higher captions pay rates, but only by a few dollars. Overall PSA is probably the new industry leading contract. Honestly as long as the flow still works, I doubt many will see year 10 pay at PSA.

TheWeatherman
04-06-2019, 05:16 PM
Drunk posting never works for me...
What I was attempting to post was I believe PSA will be getting 150% above 85 hours, which is much better then our current incentive pay. On paper Republics incentive pay looks impressive, but for most it means very little. Very few get red or yellow flag pay, the the 125% above 87 is pretty hard to get.

Basically we may have higher captions pay rates, but only by a few dollars. Overall PSA is probably the new industry leading contract. Honestly as long as the flow still works, I doubt many will see year 10 pay at PSA.
Are you saying PSA pays out premium based off credit not block?? Also, what about those 16 hour 4-days at PSA? Hard to make money on those.

4V14T0R
04-06-2019, 08:26 PM
Are you saying PSA pays out premium based off credit not block?? Also, what about those 16 hour 4-days at PSA? Hard to make money on those.



Yikes. 16 hour 4-days? Thatís OK 3-day.

Does PSA not have a min day?


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Urban achiever
04-06-2019, 08:52 PM
Yikes. 16 hour 4-days? Thatís OK 3-day.

Does PSA not have a min day?


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Try 11.2 hr 4 day trips. Iíve seen lower but itís rare. Yes we have min day (3.5) but thereís carve outs so it doesnít always apply. Garbage like that is filled by the guys on reserve

4V14T0R
04-06-2019, 09:05 PM
Try 11.2 hr 4 day trips. Iíve seen lower but itís rare. Yes we have min day (3.5) but thereís carve outs so it doesnít always apply. Garbage like that is filled by the guys on reserve



Wow. Thatís not even worth going to work for.


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Urban achiever
04-06-2019, 11:28 PM
Wow. Thatís not even worth going to work for.


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It is for a guy on reserve who commutes. Hopefully now that We got hourly increases, we can work on the soft pay as well now.

Upntheair27
04-07-2019, 09:17 AM
Overall work rules for reservists and line holders are far better at Republic and their pairings are built with much higher credit and efficiency.

Upntheair27
04-07-2019, 09:20 AM
The funny thing about the 200 is that we frequently utilize it on longer legs than the 7/900! :D

Haha Can confirm, I thought the same thing...Making passengers more uncomfortable for longer. Makes sense

Swakid8
04-07-2019, 09:45 AM
Are you saying PSA pays out premium based off credit not block?? Also, what about those 16 hour 4-days at PSA? Hard to make money on those.

Yes, itís paid out based on credit. There are quite a bit 20 plus hour trips out there especially as a Round 1 line holder.

chrisreedrules
04-07-2019, 10:25 AM
Yes, itís paid out based on credit. There are quite a bit 20 plus hour trips out there especially as a Round 1 line holder.

April Iím crediting 107 hours worth of pay with 12 days off with our premium pay override. Got all the days off I want. Only 1 trip worth less than 20 hours... No ragrets.

TheWeatherman
04-07-2019, 04:13 PM
Yes, itís paid out based on credit. There are quite a bit 20 plus hour trips out there especially as a Round 1 line holder.

Good, I am hoping that is something that we fix in our next contract. Your trips are too inefficient for my taste though. Iíll stick with my 19 hour 3 days and 110 hours credit with 14 days off.

chrisreedrules
04-07-2019, 04:28 PM
Good, I am hoping that is something that we fix in our next contract. Your trips are too inefficient for my taste though. Iíll stick with my 19 hour 3 days and 110 hours credit with 14 days off.

Man I wish! Our top lines in certain bases are similar to that. I saw a bunch in CLT worth 92-95 hours with 14-16 off not including the premium pay. So pretty similar. But not attainable for most here unless youíre savvy/lucky with the SAP or super senior.

DiveAndDrive
04-08-2019, 02:11 PM
Iím just saying I about died when I saw the 22 hour 3 day on my schedule. :p

Tpinks
04-08-2019, 08:34 PM
Had a 32.5 hour 4-day back in February that ended up actually crediting 33.5 hours. A normal month for me is 100hrs with 15-16 days off.

Thedude86
04-10-2019, 04:44 AM
Iím at PSA and Iím very thankful for our pay raises but we still do not compete with Republic in overall pay since our soft pay and premium pay is lacking. Iím on the 5 year captain pay scale and Iím guessing I will make around 90k/year with the new rates. I plan on averaging around 80 hours and 15-17 days off a month. I was actually already making about 90k with the old rates because we had better premium pay than the new tier system we just switched to. Iím guessing the republic guys should easily be able to clear 100k-110k with similar days off. Please correct me if Iím wrong. Im curious what the republic captains are making with 12-13 days off.... 130k plus or more?

Also the PSA FOs arenít really getting a raise. They basically converted the retention bonus to pay rates based on flying roughly 75 hours a month. Iíd take pay rates over bonuses all day long, but like I said, FOs are still making basically the same salary as they were before. If you fly more than 75 hours it comes out to a raise. Less than 75 hours is a pay cut. So neutral gain for FOs in my opinion, but definitely a plus that itís in the form of pay rates instead of a bonus now.

Not trying to be negative. Just trying to put out some factual stats. PSA has an unrestricted SAP which is huge. Iím thankful for our raises but our soft pay rules suck. Until those improve (hopefully with PBS) you will earn a good chunk more at Republic.

UnbeatenPath
04-12-2019, 05:27 AM
Iím at PSA and Iím very thankful for our pay raises but we still do not compete with Republic in overall pay since our soft pay and premium pay is lacking. Iím on the 5 year captain pay scale and Iím guessing I will make around 90k/year with the new rates. I plan on averaging around 80 hours and 15-17 days off a month. I was actually already making about 90k with the old rates because we had better premium pay than the new tier system we just switched to. Iím guessing the republic guys should easily be able to clear 100k-110k with similar days off. Please correct me if Iím wrong. Im curious what the republic captains are making with 12-13 days off.... 130k plus or more?

Also the PSA FOs arenít really getting a raise. They basically converted the retention bonus to pay rates based on flying roughly 75 hours a month. Iíd take pay rates over bonuses all day long, but like I said, FOs are still making basically the same salary as they were before. If you fly more than 75 hours it comes out to a raise. Less than 75 hours is a pay cut. So neutral gain for FOs in my opinion, but definitely a plus that itís in the form of pay rates instead of a bonus now.

Not trying to be negative. Just trying to put out some factual stats. PSA has an unrestricted SAP which is huge. Iím thankful for our raises but our soft pay rules suck. Until those improve (hopefully with PBS) you will earn a good chunk more at Republic.

Right now a 5 year captain is at $92. Next January I believe it goes over $100. I'd have to look at the contract to check 5 year, but know for sure a 3 year will be $95

KCaviator
04-12-2019, 05:32 AM
In January 2020 a 5-year captain at YX will make $99.40/hr. How does this compare to PSAís new pay?

Joachim
04-12-2019, 05:33 AM
I love the things I hear/read about Republic, and I already have an interview scheduled in a few weeks. However, I'm a little concerned about a few things...

I live close to BNA, have a family and am not interested in moving. So I'll be commuting, but to where most likely? I don't necessarily mind the idea of commuting, but I'm concerned about reserve time, as that would definitely take me away from home a lot more.

I understand I can expect to upgrade in around 2 years, so what will that mean as far as bases go? I know FO junior/senior bases aren't usually the same as CA junior/senior bases.

Another option I have is PSA, which has a crew base 2.5 hours drive time from me (TYS). I'm hearing some negative things about PSA, and I hear mostly positive things about Republic, but with QOL being my number one consideration, I'm wondering if I'd be better off living close to base. I'm told I could easily get the TYS base right out of training, but then I've also heard that PSA forces upgrades and makes people change their bases.

As a side note, my current long-term goal is to fly for SWA.

Appreciate any advice on this... a little bewildered with all the information I'm trying to ingest!

Take the non commute option. Any QOL benefits at Republic will be negated by the commute. Also, at this stage of the game QOL should not be your number one priority. Building that resume should. Get your tpic and move on quickly after that.

Random Task
04-12-2019, 08:25 AM
at this stage of the game QOL should not be your number one priority.

This is the worst advice I've ever read on this site

Thedude86
04-12-2019, 08:30 AM
Right now a 5 year captain is at $92. Next January I believe it goes over $100. I'd have to look at the contract to check 5 year, but know for sure a 3 year will be $95

Iím at 5 years at PSA and itís $90/hour. Iíd have to find the chart but Iím thinking next year itís about 92 for 5th year. My point was mostly that even if our pay rates were as high as Republic you will still make a decent amount more at Republic
because your premium and soft pay rules are much better. We only get 50% deadhead and 3.5 hour min day with carve outs just to name a few. Plus, our trips are much lower credit on average. I should be making about 90k/year with our new pay rates with 15-17 days off. Iím guessing a Republic captain will make 110k-120k if not more with similar days off. Iíve heard of numerous Republic FOs making more than 70k without much effort and a few getting close to 100k. Our highest paid FOs will be lucky to top 60k even if they fly their butt off with the new rates.

Thatís not really a complaint. Although, flowing 10 pilots a month is almost meaningless for 1900 pilots now... flow is worth something for the senior pilots like myself that got hired at a good time. Obviously, flow is meant to keep costs down. While it would be nice, realistically we canít have flow AND match the top pay rates of Endeavor and Republic.

Swakid8
04-12-2019, 08:52 AM
This is the worst advice I've ever read on this site

But he is not completely wrong though either, itís a balance. I think seeking good qol can lull a person into a trap of getting comfortable with where they are and losing sight at the end goal.

QOL is important, but keep the end goal in sight as well. Ie, itís a balance.

ClearPr0p
05-01-2019, 06:43 AM
So what's the latest on this topic? As someone seeking to get started in the 121 world mid summer with a Philly base....

How do the 2 compare? Is forced upgrading (displacement) at PSA still a thing?

From what I have been reading I shouldn't even look at any flow agreement especially with a 4 year degree because it won't do me any good, correct me if I'm wrong?

Is it true that United rarely hires Republic pilots because they also fly for the competition?

Also I've been reading nothing but bad things about Piedmont.. :(

Jungle Jim
05-01-2019, 07:12 AM
Is it true that United rarely hires Republic pilots because they also fly for the competition?

Thatís completely untrue. UA took 8 of our guys in March alone. Of that, 6 of those were civilians. It has picked up.

4V14T0R
05-01-2019, 07:57 AM
So what's the latest on this topic? As someone seeking to get started in the 121 world mid summer with a Philly base....

How do the 2 compare? Is forced upgrading (displacement) at PSA still a thing?

From what I have been reading I shouldn't even look at any flow agreement especially with a 4 year degree because it won't do me any good, correct me if I'm wrong?

Is it true that United rarely hires Republic pilots because they also fly for the competition?

Also I've been reading nothing but bad things about Piedmont.. :(



As Jungle Jim said, the issue we had last year with Republic pilots not head to the legacies seems to be a blip. Weíve already exceeded last years numbers.

That said, are you already in the pipeline to start Republic in the summer or are you looking to interview then? When will you reach the mins?


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ClearPr0p
05-01-2019, 08:00 AM
As Jungle Jim said, the issue we had last year with Republic pilots not head to the legacies seems to be a blip. We’ve already exceeded last years numbers.

That said, are you already in the pipeline to start Republic in the summer or are you looking to interview then? When will you reach the mins?


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Haven't interviewed at Republic yet.. (Am doing so very soon)... I'll hit 1500 mid summer.. end of july projected .. Also any update on the training backlog?

4V14T0R
05-01-2019, 08:24 AM
Haven't interviewed at Republic yet.. (Am doing so very soon)... I'll hit 1500 mid summer.. end of july projected .. Also any update on the training backlog?



Eek. My understanding is that, if you get an interview, you wonít start until 2020. Keep your options open. Interview ASAP, anywhere. If you get Republic, re-evaluate then.


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ClearPr0p
05-01-2019, 09:31 AM
Eek. My understanding is that, if you get an interview, you wonít start until 2020. Keep your options open. Interview ASAP, anywhere. If you get Republic, re-evaluate then.


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Ouch.. that's crazy. What's the story at PSA?

4V14T0R
05-01-2019, 09:40 AM
Ouch.. that's crazy. What's the story at PSA?



Iíll let one of those guys chime in.


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chrisreedrules
05-01-2019, 07:59 PM
Ouch.. that's crazy. What's the story at PSA?

Things are pretty good for PSA right now. We just got a pay raise and combined with our pay override itís possible to earn some pretty good coin. If youíre a line holder the SAP we have is the best thing since sliced bread...

That being said it will likely take a new hire today over a year to hold a line in any base. And we are still force upgrading senior FOs to CA. My expectation is that this will taper off (it has already begun to) after the raises were announced. I would expect upgrade for a new hire with zero 121 experience to stand around 2.5-3 years looking forward.

Republic has better pay and a better contract but it takes a while to start class. PSA has the SAP, a no interview flow to American Airlines, and pretty good pay for a regional but long reserve times at the moment.

TangoIndiaMike1
05-01-2019, 08:27 PM
Things are pretty good for PSA right now. We just got a pay raise and combined with our pay override itís possible to earn some pretty good coin. If youíre a line holder the SAP we have is the best thing since sliced bread...



That being said it will likely take a new hire today over a year to hold a line in any base. And we are still force upgrading senior FOs to CA. My expectation is that this will taper off (it has already begun to) after the raises were announced. I would expect upgrade for a new hire with zero 121 experience to stand around 2.5-3 years looking forward.



Republic has better pay and a better contract but it takes a while to start class. PSA has the SAP, a no interview flow to American Airlines, and pretty good pay for a regional but long reserve times at the moment.



Whatís that flow rate up to now a days.


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Swakid8
05-02-2019, 04:16 AM
Whatís that flow rate up to now a days.


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10 per month

ClearPr0p
05-31-2019, 02:26 AM
Some friends I know who work at Republic say the flow is not worth anything and the work rules / QOL at Republic is the way to go... Other friends who work at PSA say flow flow flow... This is a tough decision.. I know it changes month to month, but I'd appreciate more opinions if you got 'em... (as someone seeking a PHL base with no interest at all in crash pad living...)

I already have a class date for both, so any delays on that is not an issue...

Thanks all

Phoenix21
05-31-2019, 05:41 AM
Some friends I know who work at Republic say the flow is not worth anything and the work rules / QOL at Republic is the way to go... Other friends who work at PSA say flow flow flow... This is a tough decision.. I know it changes month to month, but I'd appreciate more opinions if you got 'em... (as someone seeking a PHL base with no interest at all in crash pad living...)

I already have a class date for both, so any delays on that is not an issue...

Thanks all

The guys at Republic who say the flow is worthless are the guys who still think theyíll be picked up by legacy airline. There seem to be a lot more lifers at Republic who canít get hired at a legacy at the top of the list, creating stagnation. PSA has a small number or lifers who will be retired during your tenure so attrition from the top will be at least 10/month when AA is hiring, plus anyone going elsewhere. Flow does not have a monetary value, but itís worth something in that regard.

TheWeatherman
05-31-2019, 07:16 AM
The guys at Republic who say the flow is worthless are the guys who still think theyíll be picked up by legacy airline. There seem to be a lot more lifers at Republic who canít get hired at a legacy at the top of the list, creating stagnation. PSA has a small number or lifers who will be retired during your tenure so attrition from the top will be at least 10/month when AA is hiring, plus anyone going elsewhere. Flow does not have a monetary value, but itís worth something in that regard.
Those who say flow flow flow are trying to convince themselves they made the right decision. To see the realities of flow, just look at the threads in some of the Regionals that offer flow. Envoy is a dumpster fire right now.

As far as RAH having some lifers, that is more of a product of their acquisition history then anything else. Having great QOL rules does not help that situation either as we have many 50+ year old people who have no desire to move on.

In todayís hiring environment I would only recommend flow for someone who has an element of their history that would make them an undesired candidate, such as no degree or a dwi. Otherwise go to where you donít have to commute and you will get the best pay and QOL. Upgrade times are about the same across the board and wait on class times fluctuate.

Jungle Jim
05-31-2019, 08:29 AM
Some friends I know who work at Republic say the flow is not worth anything and the work rules / QOL at Republic is the way to go... Other friends who work at PSA say flow flow flow... This is a tough decision.. I know it changes month to month, but I'd appreciate more opinions if you got 'em... (as someone seeking a PHL base with no interest at all in crash pad living...)

I already have a class date for both, so any delays on that is not an issue...

Thanks all

It's pretty much like this...what do you value most? Do you value having good pay, work rules, and a very flexible schedule with ability to have a lot of days off? Then Republic is probably your best option. Do you want to be at AA in 6+ years? Go to PSA. The rest of the metrics are pretty irrelevant when comparing the two. You will have to work harder marketing yourself to get to a big 3 from YX, but it's not impossible in under 6 years. You'll enjoy a significantly better QOL at YX than almost any other regional. That's the short term advantage of Republic. For me, I didn't want to suffer for those years of my life in a meat grinder regional, so I came here and mostly enjoy it.

Logtwo
05-31-2019, 09:31 AM
It's pretty much like this...what do you value most? Do you value having good pay, work rules, and a very flexible schedule with ability to have a lot of days off? Then Republic is probably your best option. Do you want to be at AA in 6+ years? Go to PSA. The rest of the metrics are pretty irrelevant when comparing the two. You will have to work harder marketing yourself to get to a big 3 from YX, but it's not impossible in under 6 years. You'll enjoy a significantly better QOL at YX than almost any other regional. That's the short term advantage of Republic. For me, I didn't want to suffer for those years of my life in a meat grinder regional, so I came here and mostly enjoy it.

Just so you know, with SAP a PSA round 1 lineholder will have 18 days a month off.

Viking6
05-31-2019, 02:18 PM
Just so you know, with SAP a PSA round 1 lineholder will have 18 days a month off.


But how much are you crediting with 18 days off? 18 days off with 75 hours credit isnít much to brag about. Iíve heard the lines are very unproductive at PSA. At Republic the company tries to make the lines as productive as possible. It benefits them, because of our soft pay.

chrisreedrules
05-31-2019, 03:04 PM
But how much are you crediting with 18 days off? 18 days off with 75 hours credit isnít much to brag about. Iíve heard the lines are very unproductive at PSA. At Republic the company tries to make the lines as productive as possible. It benefits them, because of our soft pay.

Iíve had as many as 20 days off utilizing the SAP. And that was crediting 65 hours. I usually aim for 13-14 off and Iíve been netting about 104-110 credit with the new ďacceleratedĒ pay credit. The thing with the SAP is that you can get off any day you really may want. Donít want to work a holiday? Donít have to. Want to make it to all of juniors ball games Saturday night? Sure thing.

And if I were a new hire, I would definitely not discredit the flow. I certainly would not depend on it by any stretch of the imagination, but it does provide a lot of benefits. The main benefit for a new hire is going to be the constant churn off the top of the seniority list. Every month AA is hiring youíre guaranteed to move up at least that many spots at a WO.

PSA:
Decent pay
SAP
Flow
Lots of seniority list movement

Republic:
Good pay
Good work rules

ClearPr0p
05-31-2019, 03:13 PM
Iíve had as many as 20 days off utilizing the SAP. And that was crediting 65 hours. I usually aim for 13-14 off and Iíve been netting about 104-110 credit with the new ďacceleratedĒ pay credit. The thing with the SAP is that you can get off any day you really may want. Donít want to work a holiday? Donít have to. Want to make it to all of juniors ball games Saturday night? Sure thing.

And if I were a new hire, I would definitely not discredit the flow. I certainly would not depend on it by any stretch of the imagination, but it does provide a lot of benefits. The main benefit for a new hire is going to be the constant churn off the top of the seniority list. Every month AA is hiring youíre guaranteed to move up at least that many spots at a WO.

PSA:
Decent pay
SAP
Flow
Lots of seniority list movement

Republic:
Good pay
Good work rules

Also a big factor is realistically how soon a new hire can hold PHL... Thanks for all the info.. keep it coming!

Swakid8
05-31-2019, 04:23 PM
I am just going to leave this perspective, but I wouldnít rely on the flow but treat more like a insurance policy/backup card in the back pocket. One can always try to get hired on at other majors and AA off the street while having the flow in the pocket.

SAP is another story that has been a life changer. Iíve literally rebuilt my schedule with SAP, used SAP to get days I want or need off, used SAP to get more days off. But it will take about 10 to 12 months to hold a round 1 line in most bases in order to have SAP.

No problem getting PHL as a base. You may have to spend a month or two in DAY before getting PHL. You will just be on reserve.

To piggy back off what Chris said earlier, the flow creates constant attrition from the top of the seniority list and also opens up opportunities like LCA, or other resume building collateral duties because guys who fill those positions will be looking to flow shortly afterwards too.

Food for thought.

PSA Pros
SAP
Flow

Republic Pros
Good pay with soft pay
Good work rules

TheWeatherman
05-31-2019, 05:52 PM
Wow, the PSA recruiters are double teaming this thread with almost identical posts. You guys have templates or something your work off of? lol

chrisreedrules
05-31-2019, 06:36 PM
Iím far from a recruiter. And Iím honestly indifferent whether the OP comes to PSA or not. Iím just trying to assist them in making an informed decision. There tends to be a lot of misinformation on this and most threads on APC. A lot of people tend to try and speak to things they have little first hand knowledge of. For instance, I donít know much about Republic other than you have good pay and a good contract. So I donít comment on much else...

Captain Slow
05-31-2019, 07:37 PM
Just so you know, with SAP a PSA round 1 lineholder will have 18 days a month off.

Just so you know.... the entirety of last year as a 2nd year FO, without using SAP (which we also have at Republic), I had 17-19 days of a month and north of 90 hours of credit. It was slightly busy one month when I dropped down to 15 days off and had 115 hours of credit.

Swakid8
06-01-2019, 04:12 AM
Far from a recruiter, I am just speaking of my experience here at PSA trying to address the OP questions. The end of the day, the OP canít go wrong with either choice since both have bases that he wants.

Nh114
06-01-2019, 09:26 AM
Iíve had as many as 20 days off utilizing the SAP. And that was crediting 65 hours. I usually aim for 13-14 off and Iíve been netting about 104-110 credit with the new ďacceleratedĒ pay credit. The thing with the SAP is that you can get off any day you really may want. Donít want to work a holiday? Donít have to. Want to make it to all of juniors ball games Saturday night? Sure thing.

And if I were a new hire, I would definitely not discredit the flow. I certainly would not depend on it by any stretch of the imagination, but it does provide a lot of benefits. The main benefit for a new hire is going to be the constant churn off the top of the seniority list. Every month AA is hiring youíre guaranteed to move up at least that many spots at a WO.

PSA:
Decent pay
SAP
Flow
Lots of seniority list movement

Republic:
Good pay
Good work rules

Republic also has SAP, 2 rounds of it. Then after the fact can swap trips with others, utilize tradeboard etc if things come up. Most months I have 17-18 days off with average credit 90-100+.

Web265
06-01-2019, 09:29 AM
PSA:
Decent pay
SAP
Flow
Lots of seniority list movement

Republic:
Good pay
Good work rules
Chris left of couple off of this....

PSA:
Decent pay
SAP
Flow
Lots of seniority list movement

Republic:
Good pay
SAP
Good work rules
Lots of seniority list movement (FO Side)
Upgrade about two years. (I don't know about PSA's)

Also to the other question, it changes constantly but a classmate of mine 5/18 got PHL out of training. There's a 1/18/2019 hire who was awarded PHL already and is still listed as in training.

YMMV

Rahlifer
06-01-2019, 09:53 AM
I have a question about SAP that everyone seems to claim is the greatest thing to ever happen in in the history of aviation. I have had every single swap or drop flat out denied. Am I just a royal dumbass that doesnít know the tricks to the thing?

chrisreedrules
06-01-2019, 10:24 AM
I have a question about SAP that everyone seems to claim is the greatest thing to ever happen in in the history of aviation. I have had every single swap or drop flat out denied. Am I just a royal dumbass that doesnít know the tricks to the thing?

No, the SAP that Republic pilots are touting is hardly comparable to the SAP that PSA pilots enjoy. The SAP at PSA is not bound by the reserve grid, holidays, etc. It is unrestricted.

Viking6
06-01-2019, 11:38 AM
Just so you know.... the entirety of last year as a 2nd year FO, without using SAP (which we also have at Republic), I had 17-19 days of a month and north of 90 hours of credit. It was slightly busy one month when I dropped down to 15 days off and had 115 hours of credit.


This is what I hear from FOs I fly with in CMH. I believe if you live in base you can make extra money as well. Long call is nice.

Viking6
06-01-2019, 11:42 AM
I have a question about SAP that everyone seems to claim is the greatest thing to ever happen in in the history of aviation. I have had every single swap or drop flat out denied. Am I just a royal dumbass that doesnít know the tricks to the thing?

Iíve had plenty of luck with SAP, but youíre not dropping below 75 hours at Republic. Iíve actually dropped down to 75 hours, but it happened during SAP 2, and not 1.

Web265
06-01-2019, 02:21 PM
Hah, no, ours isn't anything like this. You have to get pretty creative to get what you want, & Not touting, just being accurate.

We do have it and it offers some flexibility once you get good at it. Some months are better than others. All SAPS are not created equal!.


No, the SAP that Republic pilots are touting is hardly comparable to the SAP that PSA pilots enjoy. The SAP at PSA is not bound by the reserve grid, holidays, etc. It is unrestricted.

Web265
06-01-2019, 02:23 PM
I have a question about SAP that everyone seems to claim is the greatest thing to ever happen in in the history of aviation. I have had every single swap or drop flat out denied. Am I just a royal dumbass that doesnít know the tricks to the thing?

Some months are better than others and you have to get pretty creative sometimes. If I really need to drop something, I pick something else up to make sure I'm over 75 after the drop, then trade off or drop what I picked up to do that later if I can. (did that make any sense?)

TheWeatherman
06-01-2019, 03:01 PM
I found that if you bid your credit high, you have more flexibility to drop SAP 1. I bid for 95 hours credit which I got. I was then able to drop to 76 hours to clear the middle of the month for a two week vacation that I am taking.

chrisreedrules
06-01-2019, 03:42 PM
Personally, I utilize the SAP at PSA to make sure my trips are commutable and to make sure Iím crediting at least 90-100 hours /month. I actually think I would prefer a more straight-forward system like what you all have at Republic. PBS awards me a line based on my preferences. Then I can SAP from there. With line bidding there are some benefits, but I know a lot of pilots who will often times bid their lines around just 1 or 2 trips with the plan to drop and or swap what they donít want in the SAP. Not exactly efficient.

Web265
06-02-2019, 05:13 AM
Some stuff....


So just out of curiosity chrisreedrules, how does PSA make certain the flying all gets manned. If SAP is unrestricted, they must have a back up of some kind, no?

I'm thinking there must be a trade off somewhere.

A really large reserve list? (which isn't really a trade off)

Junior Manning?

Airport Standby?

..and really...once you get up the seniority list some, none of these would be a negative.

Urban achiever
06-02-2019, 06:18 AM
So just out of curiosity chrisreedrules, how does PSA make certain the flying all gets manned. If SAP is unrestricted, they must have a back up of some kind, no?

I'm thinking there must be a trade off somewhere.

A really large reserve list? (which isn't really a trade off)

Junior Manning?

Airport Standby?

..and really...once you get up the seniority list some, none of these would be a negative.

They run a round 2 bid that creates line schedules from the leftover opentime from sap. It also consists of the reserve schedules. Even from that though thereís leftovers and reserves typically fly the junk no one wants.

Sucks but if we had duty / trip / better min day reserves wouldnít be flying as much opentime trips.

Web265
06-02-2019, 06:42 AM
...but if we had duty / trip / better min day reserves wouldnít be flying as much opentime trips.

I'm guessing that can make for some truly ugly pairings but I guess if it's all going to those low down the list you can "seniority" your way out of it before too long.

Swakid8
06-02-2019, 07:53 AM
So just out of curiosity chrisreedrules, how does PSA make certain the flying all gets manned. If SAP is unrestricted, they must have a back up of some kind, no?

I'm thinking there must be a trade off somewhere.

A really large reserve list? (which isn't really a trade off)

Junior Manning?

Airport Standby?

..and really...once you get up the seniority list some, none of these would be a negative.

Really no trade off, our company builds a bunch of lines which under goes the first round of bids. The sap takes a place a few days after Round 1 lines are awarded,. After SAP ends then the company builds lines with leftover pairings from SAP which then undergoes a second round of bids which includes reserve schedules.

Really no trade off, if you can hold of around 1 line, then you pretty much have good control of your schedule with only one restriction (canít go below 65 hours). Itís literally gold.

Web265
06-02-2019, 10:31 AM
Sure sounds like it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

chrisreedrules
06-02-2019, 02:16 PM
So just out of curiosity chrisreedrules, how does PSA make certain the flying all gets manned. If SAP is unrestricted, they must have a back up of some kind, no?

I'm thinking there must be a trade off somewhere.

A really large reserve list? (which isn't really a trade off)

Junior Manning?

Airport Standby?

..and really...once you get up the seniority list some, none of these would be a negative.

A ridiculous percentage of our pilot group on reserve...

peengleeson
06-02-2019, 04:35 PM
A ridiculous percentage of our pilot group on reserve...

That's ok, a ridiculous percentage of our pilot group is still in training

Beech Dude
06-12-2019, 01:17 PM
Still trying to get smart on these terms. Can you guys explain what "Junior Manning" is? Thanks.

ClearPr0p
06-12-2019, 01:20 PM
Still trying to get smart on these terms. Can you guys explain what "Junior Manning" is? Thanks.

Junior FO gets assigned to work during the time they are supposed to be off... They might even grab you at the end of a trip after the go home leg and tell you that you need to fly for 2 more days... Might apply to junior CAs also?

ClearPr0p
06-14-2019, 03:39 PM
Do you know of which major airlines Republic pilots typically move on to? (Rough percentages, and how long from date of hire they were able to go?) Seems to be a lot of emphasis on flow agreements these days...


Also what is the likelihood of a new hire starting late this summer getting PHL right out of training, and if not that, then EWR? (And reserve times?)

stabapch
06-14-2019, 07:08 PM
Do you know of which major airlines Republic pilots typically move on to? (Rough percentages, and how long from date of hire they were able to go?) Seems to be a lot of emphasis on flow agreements these days...


Also what is the likelihood of a new hire starting late this summer getting PHL right out of training, and if not that, then EWR? (And reserve times?)

Republic pilots make it to any of the majors they can individually get on with. Anywhere from 2 to 10 plus years (non mil) from doh. There is no pathway program to anywhere yet, but that being said those arenít close to being guaranteed, including the AA flows. Those programs are good to have as another option but keep in mind you will sacrifice a lot of QOL at those regionals if you buy in.

Iím not sure about PHL but it seems like the new hire classes are still getting EWR out of training with reserve times on the very low end.

Swakid8
06-15-2019, 01:11 AM
Republic pilots make it to any of the majors they can individually get on with. Anywhere from 2 to 10 plus years (non mil) from doh. There is no pathway program to anywhere yet, but that being said those arenít close to being guaranteed, including the AA flows. Those programs are good to have as another option but keep in mind you will sacrifice a lot of QOL at those regionals if you buy in.

Iím not sure about PHL but it seems like the new hire classes are still getting EWR out of training with reserve times on the very low end.

Outside of getting into trouble and hiring stopping at AA (which means everyone else will not be hiring), explain to me how the AA flow isnít guaranteed?

Wilfortina
06-15-2019, 03:03 AM
Outside of getting into trouble and hiring stopping at AA (which means everyone else will not be hiring), explain to me how the AA flow isnít guaranteed?



To my knowledge, if AA decides to stop the flow program, they can just stop the flow program. If they decide it is better for them to not have a flow, they will get rid of it

Logtwo
06-15-2019, 03:22 AM
To my knowledge, if AA decides to stop the flow program, they can just stop the flow program. If they decide it is better for them to not have a flow, they will get rid of it

Nah, it has the be approved by the pilots. The only limiting factor for PSAís flow is that AA has to have classes. But if AA doesnít have any classes weíre all boned anyways.

itsmytime
06-15-2019, 07:52 AM
Outside of getting into trouble and hiring stopping at AA (which means everyone else will not be hiring), explain to me how the AA flow isnít guaranteed?

Thatís just a mantra that pilots without flow tell themselves, to make them feel better about not having one.

Swakid8
06-15-2019, 09:26 AM
Thatís just a mantra that pilots without flow tell themselves, to make them feel better about not having one.

I am aware....

Beech Dude
06-16-2019, 03:01 AM
Junior FO gets assigned to work during the time they are supposed to be off... They might even grab you at the end of a trip after the go home leg and tell you that you need to fly for 2 more days... Might apply to junior CAs also?

Thanks for the help!

pilotnicco
06-16-2019, 08:10 AM
That’s just a mantra that pilots without flow tell themselves, to make them feel better about not having one.

Lol, that's good. I needed the laugh.

The flow is 100% meterable AND reversible during times of furlough, and there are signs that AAG is already metering the flow to mainline. There is virtually no incentive for AAG to flow pilots. Why pay you more, when they can pay you less and keep you there. If you read the ENY contract, which discusses flow, you can see that the flow reduces to 25% of AA new hire slots meterable to 15%, after the protected pilots, the first 824 pilots on property flow. The flow is a joke, and it's another reason why ENY will just be another Mesa with make-up on. To those who elect to go there in order to personally advance themselves, they keep the bar lowered for the entire industry.

The AA WO pilots get to enjoy at all what they have thanks to the pilots at Republic, Skywest, and Endeavor. if it wasn't for those pilot groups, the starting pay would still be $26/hr.

mike sierra
06-16-2019, 08:16 AM
Lol, that's good. I needed the laugh.

The flow is 100% meterable AND reversible during times of furlough, and there are signs that AAG is already metering the flow to mainline. There is virtually no incentive for AAG to flow pilots. Why pay you more, when they can pay you less and keep you there. If you read the ENY contract, which discusses flow, you can see that the flow reduces to 25% of AA new hire slots meterable to 15%, after the protected pilots, the first 824 pilots on property flow. The flow is a joke, and it's another reason why ENY will just be another Mesa with make-up on. To those who elect to go there in order to personally advance themselves, they keep the bar lowered for the entire industry.

The AA WO pilots get to enjoy at all what they have thanks to the pilots at Republic, Skywest, and Endeavor. if it wasn't for those pilot groups, the starting pay would still be $26/hr.
You have no clue...a lot of the information you posted is not correct

pilotnicco
06-16-2019, 10:01 AM
You have no clue...a lot of the information you posted is not correct

Then correct it.

chrisreedrules
06-16-2019, 11:36 AM
Lol, that's good. I needed the laugh.

The flow is 100% meterable AND reversible during times of furlough, and there are signs that AAG is already metering the flow to mainline. There is virtually no incentive for AAG to flow pilots. Why pay you more, when they can pay you less and keep you there. If you read the ENY contract, which discusses flow, you can see that the flow reduces to 25% of AA new hire slots meterable to 15%, after the protected pilots, the first 824 pilots on property flow. The flow is a joke, and it's another reason why ENY will just be another Mesa with make-up on. To those who elect to go there in order to personally advance themselves, they keep the bar lowered for the entire industry.

The AA WO pilots get to enjoy at all what they have thanks to the pilots at Republic, Skywest, and Endeavor. if it wasn't for those pilot groups, the starting pay would still be $26/hr.

Honestly do you even know what youíre talking about? The flow is not ďreversibleĒ. Geeze guy, donít even veil your attempts to be partial. :rolleyes:

And as far as the flow being able to be metered, they can withhold pilots from flowing but they have to give them a class by the end of that year. So for instance if AA decided they only wanted 5 pilots /month from each WO they can do that. But contractually they still have to hire them by the end of the year. So it really doesnít buy them much of anything to do so.

Swakid8
06-16-2019, 11:46 AM
Lol, that's good. I needed the laugh.

The flow is 100% meterable AND reversible during times of furlough, and there are signs that AAG is already metering the flow to mainline. There is virtually no incentive for AAG to flow pilots. Why pay you more, when they can pay you less and keep you there. If you read the ENY contract, which discusses flow, you can see that the flow reduces to 25% of AA new hire slots meterable to 15%, after the protected pilots, the first 824 pilots on property flow. The flow is a joke, and it's another reason why ENY will just be another Mesa with make-up on. To those who elect to go there in order to personally advance themselves, they keep the bar lowered for the entire industry.

The AA WO pilots get to enjoy at all what they have thanks to the pilots at Republic, Skywest, and Endeavor. if it wasn't for those pilot groups, the starting pay would still be $26/hr.

That so called metering as you call it was a deal done between AAG and and the protected pilot group from Arbitration. Originally, the pilot group outside of 824 didnít have the flow until it was later negotiated back into the contract in 2014.

It isnít really metering now is it if it was already designed to decrease from the get go. There are no signs of the flow being metering at one bit. AA has been taking on the amount of flow guys that need to be taken on since their I g hiring picked up and the only reason why they havenít flow guys is when they didnít have a new hire class. (December is usually the month this happens). Also, didnít be surprised to see PSA flow increase as well down the line, I have a strong feeling it is going to happen, and if that happens (there goes your flow metering theory).

So stop ✋ it with your fake news about signs of AA metering the flow....

To the op, my advice is to just treat the flow at a backup plan in the back pocket while trying to get hired off the street. Treat as you are playing with house money.....

chrisreedrules
06-16-2019, 01:36 PM
For anyone pondering the same choice as the OP, both Republic and PSA are seemingly good companies to work for and each has their pros and cons. I honestly wouldnít say one is better than the other, theyíre just different and they each fit different pilotís needs differently.