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View Full Version : 20 Killed in WW2 JU-52 Crash


AirBear
08-05-2018, 06:48 AM
20 people killed after old-time plane crashes in Swiss Alps, authorities say | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/08/05/20-people-killed-after-old-time-plane-crashes-in-swiss-alps-authorities-say.html)

All 20 people on board an old-time propeller plane were killed Saturday after the aircraft crashed in the Swiss Alps, authorities told Swiss media.

Police in southeastern Graubuenden canton said the JU-Air’s JU-52 HB-HOT aircraft crashed on the Piz Segnas mountain above the Swiss Alpine resort of Flims, a place popular with hikers and also contains a glacier. The plane holds 17 passengers, two pilots and a flight attendant.

“The JU-Air team is deeply saddened and is thinking of the passengers, the crew and families and friends of the victims,” JU-Air wrote in a statement on its website Sunday.

Eleven men, nine women were killed, officials told Swiss news website 20min.ch. Most of the people killed were from Switzerland, along with an Austrian couple and their son.

A witness told Reuters the plane wreckage was in a basin. Officials said Sunday the vintage aircraft appeared to hit the ground near-vertically and at a high speed.

Authorities are investigating what caused the deadly crash. Officials said Sunday they weren’t aware of any distress call made from the plane, adding that the investigation into the crash is expected to be “relatively complex” — though there’s no indication of foul play.

JU-52 HB-HOT aircraft does not have a crash-resistant cockpit voice and data recorders because it is an older model.

Initial investigation showed the plane did not lose any parts or break up before it crashed in the Swiss Alps. Collision with another aircraft and hitting an obstacle have been ruled out as a potential cause.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.


UAL T38 Phlyer
08-05-2018, 03:06 PM
😔😔😔😔

Fünf Pfennige auf dem Gras, mal zwanzig.

rickair7777
08-05-2018, 04:27 PM
Mit Gott gehen.


sourdough44
08-06-2018, 06:10 AM
I’d be interested in the weather at the location at time of the accident. We can start with cloud cover and visibility, then look at winds aloft.

rickair7777
08-06-2018, 08:06 AM
I’d be interested in the weather at the location at time of the accident. We can start with cloud cover and visibility, then look at winds aloft.

Mountain weather, anything's possible, although presumably those pilots knew the area. Old airplane, maybe not much redundancy in structure or flight controls.

F4E Mx
08-06-2018, 09:36 AM
There was a recently installed cable about 1,000 feet AGL in the immediate vicinity. It was NOTAMed but not known if the pilots were aware or not. Possible they pulled up to miss the cable and lost control without actually hitting it?

TiredSoul
08-06-2018, 10:51 AM
Being Swiss I’m pretty sure this was a well regulated organization and I’m not aware of any incidents.
I’m assuming this was a well known route for them with this airplane.

badflaps
08-06-2018, 12:38 PM
Straight down doesn't sound good for an airplane with a barn door wing.

Adlerdriver
08-09-2018, 12:27 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mhRTiLY6YME
A clip of the same aircraft in better days. Used in the filming of “Where Eagles Dare”.

METO Guido
08-09-2018, 06:40 AM
Interested to see what the investigation reveals. Iron Annie (N52JU) called GNV home for a years. Still flying as D-AQUI.

badflaps
08-09-2018, 08:59 AM
Interested to see what the investigation reveals. Iron Annie (N52JU) called GNV home for a years. Still flying as D-AQUI.

Was that Caiden's old airplane?

METO Guido
08-09-2018, 09:10 AM
Was that Caiden's old airplane?
Yes:)


Always brightens my day to see a storied legend turning back the hands of time. All the sweat & money, love really, to make it happen. Of course none of that can begin to rationalize the loss if passengers or bystanders get smoked when aging aircraft component failure, inadequate system redundancies or exemption from modern airworthiness standards becomes causal. Sat over a beer and watched cruise ship excursion groups lined up on the dock boarding Beaver & Otter floatplanes at Ketchikan a couple years ago. All jammed in there, faces peering from the tiny windows, getting ready to see a glacier. Remember thinking, are you people *&^%#@! nuts?

tomgoodman
08-09-2018, 10:35 AM
Sat over a beer and watched cruise ship excursion groups lined up on the dock boarding Beaver & Otter floatplanes at Ketchikan a couple years ago. All jammed in there, faces peering from the tiny windows, getting ready to see a glacier. Remember thinking, are you people *&^%#@! nuts?


The price of total safety is a lot of wasted opportunities. I found the floatplane trip into Misty Fjord well worth the risk. :)

https://www.adn.com/bush-pilot/article/de-havilland-otter-safety-record/2015/09/26/

METO Guido
08-09-2018, 12:10 PM
The price of total safety is a lot of wasted opportunities. I found the floatplane trip into Misty Fjord well worth the risk. :)

https://www.adn.com/bush-pilot/article/de-havilland-otter-safety-record/2015/09/26/
First of all, we both know there's no such thing as total safety. In contrast to other ticketholders, you made a qualified decision to venture forth.

As partial payment for indiscretions past, the skygods decided I needed to pilot flying boats for a while. Round engine & turbine converted, manufactured early in the post war period. At some point, everything on earth wears out. Guys had to perform repair/inspection work Grumman never imagined during design and construction. The accident aircraft was 80. Let's face it, MX protocols to service routine operations on antique fleets are experimental, at least to some degree. Not that it matters to victims, I also hope the reason lies elsewhere.

rickair7777
08-09-2018, 06:31 PM
Yes:)


Always brightens my day to see a storied legend turning back the hands of time. All the sweat & money, love really, to make it happen. Of course none of that can begin to rationalize the loss if passengers or bystanders get smoked when aging aircraft component failure, inadequate system redundancies or exemption from modern airworthiness standards becomes causal. Sat over a beer and watched cruise ship excursion groups lined up on the dock boarding Beaver & Otter floatplanes at Ketchikan a couple years ago. All jammed in there, faces peering from the tiny windows, getting ready to see a glacier. Remember thinking, are you people *&^%#@! nuts?

Yeah, I guess after enough years, aviation experience, and expended nine lives I'm with you on this. Glad I flew in a vintage warbird once but probably won't again. Maybe a DC-3.

METO Guido
08-12-2018, 07:50 AM
Glad I flew in a vintage warbird once but probably won't again.
What happened?

Looked at a few of the Sunday edition Zurich papers this morning. Seems like one of the early theories advanced by a Swiss aviation journalist has water collecting in the tanks as result of atypical atmospheric conditions (vapor/heat) exacerbated by a black metal finish, while parked. Consequently, engine power was later interrupted in flight. The startled crew sharply turned back, presumably causing an unrecoverable loss of lift. Meanwhile, investigators are going through passengers cameras trying to recover anything useful. Barring an airworthiness discovery or action by authorities, the company may begin to resume operations by month's end.

badflaps
08-12-2018, 11:45 AM
I would guess flying old cranky airplanes in mountains is not for the timid.

METO Guido
08-14-2018, 07:54 AM
I'm guessing the reporter was following speculation someone put him onto. Second hand accounts of engine anomalies? Past hot performance conflicts and/or mountain rotor upsets, undisclosed if so. Tragic mystery.

This attached item appeared today. In German obviously but if you care to scroll through the pictures, it's pretty clear the aircraft was in impeccable condition. Ju-Air's chief pilot claims 100% confidence in the transport's safety and owes it to the company's 160 employees to continue. He goes on to mention families of victims who are urging him to restart as soon as possible. No date for which has been set.

https://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/Ju-Air-Chefpilot-verspricht-hohe-Sicherheit-beim-Weiterbetrieb-17134978

METO Guido
08-16-2018, 11:35 AM
Approved to start flying again tomorrow. Will be limited to specific GPS routings. GPS airspeed and altitude required. Pax must remain seated with belts secured in flight. Seems like they've also agreed to observe some better than required terrain clearance altitude minimum. Investigation ongoing.

Can't help but wonder if that would happen so quickly on this side?