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View Full Version : Training Delay Question


henryjj
08-05-2018, 12:47 PM
I'm planning to interview with Horizon soon and was wondering how fast the training footprint has been recently. Have there been any significant gaps between indoc, systems, and simulator training? I have a few friends at other airlines that have waited months for sim slots.


amcnd
08-05-2018, 03:18 PM
Where ever you go. Thats going to happen... Those deep in the industry could only wish to stay at home and have a delay in training... enjoy it. Study, be ready when they call.

afcraig2010
08-05-2018, 03:45 PM
I’m with the first class in the new training footprint. Extra ground school and one extra sim session at the start which I did today and was glad they added it. Gave us more time to hand fly and get familiar with the plane. No training delays. Had a few days off between each major training session (ground school, VPT, simulator.) no more than 4 days. My first IOE trip is scheduled two days after the checkride at the end of this month.


Vanilla
08-05-2018, 07:45 PM
I’m with the first class in the new training footprint. Extra ground school and one extra sim session at the start which I did today and was glad they added it. Gave us more time to hand fly and get familiar with the plane. No training delays. Had a few days off between each major training session (ground school, VPT, simulator.) no more than 4 days. My first IOE trip is scheduled two days after the checkride at the end of this month.
afcraig2010: Q or 175?


To the OP, the 175 has been relatively quick. From day one of groundschool to the final sim check (LOE), is around 5 to 7 weeks total. (Add 1 week to the beginning if you are doing the ATP-CTP course.) Pretty quick compared to most. IOE within a week of your LOE.

afcraig2010
08-06-2018, 02:53 AM
I’m on the Q. Started ground school around June 24 and I have my checkride scheduled for end of August.

henryjj
09-26-2018, 03:13 PM
I’m on the Q. Started ground school around June 24 and I have my checkride scheduled for end of August.

Did everything turn out on time or did you have any delays?

afcraig2010
09-28-2018, 02:24 PM
No delays, everything went well. My IOE has a few larger gaps. My first few trips were a three and four day separated by like 6 days off. Then I had another trip followed by two days off, two days IOE reserve and then two more days off. Never flew on IOE reserve. Some of my classmates had a tighter IOE schedule and they’re starting to pass their line checks now. Mine is scheduled for October 12. Which I’m fine with because I needed one more month of IOE status to maintain my PDX base and avoid Medford. I was awarded PDX for November. I was glad to have those days off in IOE.

210Av8r
09-28-2018, 05:28 PM
Interviewed VERY recently and got a CJO. New hires are being put in a pool. They will contact us in mid-November when they have more info about a class date. This is true for both Q and E.

Starchkr
09-29-2018, 09:52 AM
How recently? I interviewed back in early September and was told I wouldn’t be in class until next year and there has been no correspondence since the interview other than links to some pre-training material.

SurferLucas
09-29-2018, 02:41 PM
Recently saw that we were at 98 days for the Q400, from Day 1 of Basic Indoc to being signed off of IOE.

afcraig2010
09-29-2018, 06:25 PM
Recently saw that we were at 98 days for the Q400, from Day 1 of Basic Indoc to being signed off of IOE.

That’s accurate for my 6/11 class.

210Av8r
09-29-2018, 06:25 PM
How recently? I interviewed back in early September and was told I wouldn’t be in class until next year and there has been no correspondence since the interview other than links to some pre-training material.

Last week.

Rebeldog
09-30-2018, 06:00 AM
I have what may be an odd question. I am a dash pilot flying ISR. Yes I know I make good money out here in the desert, but am starting to get burned out. With that being said, I live about 2 hours west of Seattle, and have a dash type, so Horizon seems like an obvious choice if I decide to switch it up. So to the question..... what would the differences in training be, if any at all? Thanks for any help.

Stinger6
10-01-2018, 04:25 PM
03/05 - ATP/CTP
10/2 (tomorrow) Finish Consolidation.
I'll call that 7 months. There were outrageous, intolerable and unnecessary training delays. While the new footprint sounds good...I'm skeptical.

Anyway, that's MY story.

I am enjoying flying on the line with really good people on an airplane that is roomy and a remarkable performer. And, though I've screwed up my bidding a little bit, I am holding a line.

Sikorsky38
10-01-2018, 04:32 PM
...what would the differences in training be, if any at all? Thanks for any help.
You would go through the exact same training as someone who had never flown a Dash 8. Your biggest challenge would be staying awake in class. Seriously, the big items would be learning flows, the Flight Operations Manual and the FMS if you were flying -100s in the Middle East. For all other models, the differences are not a big deal other than things happening 100 mph faster when you aren't on final approach. As a side note, I have seen a lot of guys go directly from 1900s and Dash 8s in the contract world to both the majors and cargo airlines.

ColoradoAviator
10-05-2018, 04:41 AM
Where does Horizon do indoc and sims? Seattle? I suspect the sims locations varies especially with the E-175 sim shortage nationwide. Living locally to SEA it would be nice to stay at home during training.

ASpilot2be
10-05-2018, 06:21 AM
Where does Horizon do indoc and sims? Seattle? I suspect the sims locations varies especially with the E-175 sim shortage nationwide. Living locally to SEA it would be nice to stay at home during training.

Indoc is Portland. Sims are Seattle. Some people get sent to STL for 175 sims.

RemiDenton
12-05-2018, 06:08 PM
Indoc is Portland. Sims are Seattle. Some people get sent to STL for 175 sims.

And where do they do the ATP-CTP training? Thanks!

ASpilot2be
12-05-2018, 07:14 PM
And where do they do the ATP-CTP training? Thanks!

I dont know of any specific location. I have heard places like Vegas, and Dallas.

dash3t
12-06-2018, 09:56 AM
And where do they do the ATP-CTP training? Thanks!They are done through L3, but as far as I am aware, it could be at any of their locations.

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Rozsnyai
12-09-2018, 05:55 AM
How long was the process from applying to class start date for you?

dash3t
12-09-2018, 06:50 AM
How long was the process from applying to class start date for you?Application to interview was about 5-6 weeks.

Interview-class date, Some of our group got dates 3 months out from interview for the Q. The rest waiting on the E175 are still waiting on firm class dates but were told "anticipated" dates about 5 months out.

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henryjj
01-09-2019, 06:39 PM
Hey guys any updates on the training schedule and any delays? Getting close to a class date.

Jeff4912
01-09-2019, 06:46 PM
I am in training right now for the Q 400. Heading to Dallas tomorrow for ATP/CTP, was told we may not be able to take the written at the end because of the government shut down.

Also heard possibility of some delays at the simulators because of the government shut down.

Jeff4912
01-13-2019, 05:46 PM
It looks like we will be taking the written test this Friday however we may not get our results the same day. Just glad we’re going to get a chance to take the test this week.

PetRock
01-15-2019, 10:01 PM
Looking to apply this weekend.


Is June/July for class dates roughly accurate as of now?

TroutBum
01-16-2019, 12:25 PM
I am in training right now for the Q 400. Heading to Dallas tomorrow for ATP/CTP, was told we may not be able to take the written at the end because of the government shut down.

Also heard possibility of some delays at the simulators because of the government shut down.

I just finished ERJ sims earlier this week. We had some delays, but those were mainly due to some simulator breakdowns and a big SEA power outage. There were no delays due to regulatory issues, etc.

Space Ghost
01-23-2019, 12:50 PM
You can expect 6 months or longer for training classes as of now. I don't think they are doing any more ERJ classes for 2019. That's for new hires not people already slotted.

majorpilot
01-23-2019, 07:07 PM
You can expect 6 months or longer for training classes as of now. I don't think they are doing any more ERJ classes for 2019. That's for new hires not people already slotted.


A friend given a CJO was told to expect a class no sooner than May and probably “summer.” Are you saying this in fact will be 2020? Or would they have been “slotted” just not told yet?

Thanks for any input—I will pass along.

Space Ghost
01-24-2019, 05:39 PM
A friend given a CJO was told to expect a class no sooner than May and probably “summer.” Are you saying this in fact will be 2020? Or would they have been “slotted” just not told yet?

Thanks for any input—I will pass along.

If your friend interviewed sometime before January and said he wanted the ERJ he's good. But if he has not interviewed he's not going to be offered an ERJ slot. They apparently met their quota for ERJ pilots for 2019. A friend recently interviewed and was offered a position but was told it would be the Q400 because they don't need ERJ pilots for 2019. Bottom line regardless there is a huge wait time before getting a school date. It's a great company but they have long wait times even for the Q400. I might get a class 6 months from my original job offer and that's a big maybe. They still need pilots but not like a year ago.

majorpilot
01-24-2019, 10:56 PM
If your friend interviewed sometime before January and said he wanted the ERJ he's good.


Thanks - told me he interviewed in Dec, he (and 9-10 others at same time) was handed CJO, told ERJ was “probably early summer at soonest, maybe later.” Some in that group opted for Q.

Any idea how big are ERJ classes? Perhaps they’ve met their quota at this point and it’s all about who gets through vetting first.

Appreciate the info, Ghost.

Bannerpilot24
01-25-2019, 06:58 AM
So everyone else they hire this year will go to the Q? Do they really need that many more Q pilots? My friend just scheduled his interview and the soonest they had was an April interview for him.

majorpilot
01-25-2019, 07:43 AM
So everyone else they hire this year will go to the Q? Do they really need that many more Q pilots? My friend just scheduled his interview and the soonest they had was an April interview for him.


I have no inside knowledge, only anecdotal observations, but it seems that unlike many other companies, QX schedules interviews months out. My friend who interviewed in December had had it set a couple months in advance. I’m Rolf same HR as Alaska, so same processes and timelines. That could explain why it might be on a longer timetable than if that group were only servicing QX.

Space Ghost
01-26-2019, 02:23 PM
So everyone else they hire this year will go to the Q? Do they really need that many more Q pilots? My friend just scheduled his interview and the soonest they had was an April interview for him.

Yes....with a caveat it's a small but good company and they don't have the need at this point for hiring as many pilots as they did a year ago. Interviews for all airlines are going to be longer wait times (I think). There maybe heavy hiring periods and low hiring periods. With long and short wait times for training dates. Now pilots just need to go with "I'll fly whatever you need me to fly" and stop worrying about the new bright shiny airplanes. Not that's what your friend is doing or what your asking it's just what I see many pilots going for. The airlines put out a call for pilots and the people answered. It's still a great time to go to the airlines.

You never now people drop out all the time and maybe a slot or two will open for the ERJ. The Q400 is a great plane and if offered it your friend should take it.

Bannerpilot24
01-26-2019, 04:34 PM
I was actually asking because I have an interview scheduled in 2 weeks and my friend just scheduled his but they didn’t have any spots for him until April so that seems like they’re interviewing quite a few pilots in between mine and his. I would take either plane, the Q seems more fun to fly actually, but getting any base besides SEA is a deal breaker for me right now (new baby, I can’t commute right now, especially while on reserve). I was told it could take a few months to get SEA in the Q. With more jets on order and Alaska classes started back up how is it that everybody they hire for the next 11 months will go to the Q? Why all the sudden do they need a bunch of Q pilots?

Space Ghost
01-27-2019, 09:08 AM
I was actually asking because I have an interview scheduled in 2 weeks and my friend just scheduled his but they didn’t have any spots for him until April so that seems like they’re interviewing quite a few pilots in between mine and his. I would take either plane, the Q seems more fun to fly actually, but getting any base besides SEA is a deal breaker for me right now (new baby, I can’t commute right now, especially while on reserve). I was told it could take a few months to get SEA in the Q. With more jets on order and Alaska classes started back up how is it that everybody they hire for the next 11 months will go to the Q? Why all the sudden do they need a bunch of Q pilots?

I was told no one is moving on/leaving as fast as they originally predicted. So expect a long time on reserve also. Good luck.

Griever
01-27-2019, 11:15 AM
I was actually asking because I have an interview scheduled in 2 weeks and my friend just scheduled his but they didn’t have any spots for him until April so that seems like they’re interviewing quite a few pilots in between mine and his. I would take either plane, the Q seems more fun to fly actually, but getting any base besides SEA is a deal breaker for me right now (new baby, I can’t commute right now, especially while on reserve). I was told it could take a few months to get SEA in the Q. With more jets on order and Alaska classes started back up how is it that everybody they hire for the next 11 months will go to the Q? Why all the sudden do they need a bunch of Q pilots?

Just speculation, but:
Plans change rapidly based on up to date conditions. A few months ago we got a request for any FO that was qualified to upgrade to do so. Therefore we could take on additional flying for air group. Q staffing probably changed due to that.
I'm sure that the revised hiring that Alaska plans for also reduced the number of Pathways poolies they were planning on taking as well.
Could also be a result of the training pipeline constricted by checkairmen.

Who knows.

Space Ghost
01-31-2019, 05:41 AM
Just speculation, but:
Plans change rapidly based on up to date conditions. A few months ago we got a request for any FO that was qualified to upgrade to do so. Therefore we could take on additional flying for air group. Q staffing probably changed due to that.
I'm sure that the revised hiring that Alaska plans for also reduced the number of Pathways poolies they were planning on taking as well.
Could also be a result of the training pipeline constricted by checkairmen.

Who knows.

I can tell you Horizon said it was absolutely not a training flow through issue it was due to no one was moving on as quick as they thought they would. They also said they did not need as many class dates/increase class size for FY19, because they met their requirements with new hire especially for ERJs. Yes the requirement could change however at this moment and the foreseeable 6+ months expect long delays for training class dates. I think they are a great company but I really don't think they have a real grasp on what there requirements are.

My frustration is the inability to at least provide a training date after being in the que for 4+ months. I could care less when my date is as long as they said your class date is "Month 2019/2020 and you are #5 on the standby list". That shows a higher level of understanding of requirements and pilots available to meet those requirements. You can draw conclusions for other things like long reserve times and the slowing of upgrade times.

Bannerpilot24
01-31-2019, 11:00 AM
I can tell you Horizon said it was absolutely not a training flow through issue it was due to no one was moving on as quick as they thought they would. They also said they did not need as many class dates/increase class size for FY19, because they met their requirements with new hire especially for ERJs. Yes the requirement could change however at this moment and the foreseeable 6+ months expect long delays for training class dates. I think they are a great company but I really don't think they have a real grasp on what there requirements are.

My frustration is the inability to at least provide a training date after being in the que for 4+ months. I could care less when my date is as long as they said your class date is "Month 2019/2020 and you are #5 on the standby list". That shows a higher level of understanding of requirements and pilots available to meet those requirements. You can draw conclusions for other things like long reserve times and the slowing of upgrade times.

So you interviewed a few months ago and still haven’t received a class date? Some of the recent Aviationinterview gouges from dec/Jan interviews showed June and July class dates, but maybe they just put that because it makes you put something.

Would they not just slow down on hiring vs hiring in excess and being very backed up on class dates? Or are they expecting alot of movement therefore a bigger demand over the next 6+ months?

TyWebb
01-31-2019, 12:03 PM
My frustration is the inability to at least provide a training date after being in the que for 4+ months. I could care less when my date is as long as they said your class date is "Month 2019/2020 and you are #5 on the standby list". That shows a higher level of understanding of requirements and pilots available to meet those requirements. You can draw conclusions for other things like long reserve times and the slowing of upgrade times.


I hear you, it is very frustrating. I have only been in the que for a couple of months, but some sort of projection and transparency would go a long way. I'm not a CFI so a lot of guys I interviewed with are just going back to their other gig till they go to training. I'm going to be walking into 7/11's with a ski mask in due time.

majorpilot
01-31-2019, 07:18 PM
Some of the recent Aviationinterview gouges from dec/Jan interviews showed June and July class dates,?


Q or EJet?

Got a friend who received offer mid- December, selected ERJ, initially told “Summer” and then weeks ago “May”, nothing recently.

RemiDenton
01-31-2019, 07:34 PM
Some of the recent Aviationinterview gouges from dec/Jan interviews showed June and July class dates.





They told me to “expect” these training dates. Nobody in my group has one yet. Close friend was hired in October, got a call for the Q, is waiting for the E and still no date.

I agree, my confidence would be stronger if I just had a date. I don’t expect it tomorrow but planning on a quarter of the year for a life transition isn’t really giving me the warm and fuzzy when it’s the next quarter...



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TyWebb
02-21-2019, 08:01 AM
Has anyone in the 'pool' heard anything yet? My background is being done right now as they emailed for more documentation rencently. I am hoping to hear once that is 100% done.

majorpilot
02-21-2019, 09:35 AM
Has anyone in the 'pool' heard anything yet? My background is being done right now as they emailed for more documentation rencently. I am hoping to hear once that is 100% done.



Friend holding a CJO from late 2018 got an email in Jan saying “we will give you 60 days’ notice, expect to hear by summer” and nothing since.

I wonder how many in the pool are taking other offers ... and if/how that will affect their planning? With other companies offering immediate starts, could the pool dry up?

TyWebb
02-21-2019, 09:56 AM
Friend holding a CJO from late 2018 got an email in Jan saying “we will give you 60 days’ notice, expect to hear by summer” and nothing since.

I wonder how many in the pool are taking other offers ... and if/how that will affect their planning? With other companies offering immediate starts, could the pool dry up?


I am in the same boat as your friend and received the same email in January. I too have been hoping the pool would dry up thus bumping myself to a sooner date. I know of the 3 others that received a CJO at the same I did, two took offers for a sooner training date at SW.

dash3t
02-21-2019, 10:20 AM
I am in the same boat as your friend and received the same email in January. I too have been hoping the pool would dry up thus bumping myself to a sooner date. I know of the 3 others that received a CJO at the same I did, two took offers for a sooner training date at SW.Interviewed beginning of October. Got the call with an E175 class date of 3/18 on 2/4. Someone in my interview group was also in 3/18 class and the got moved up to 3/4.

So they are working through the pool and it was pretty consistent with what the told us in the interview. They estimated mid March when we got the CJO for the E.

Most of our group ended up taking the Q for earlier dates and I could have taken the Q back in Nov as well, but due to extenuating circumstances had wanted to wait for the E. Only one in our group ended up going elsewhere.



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TyWebb
02-21-2019, 10:41 AM
Nice Dash3t, thanks for the heads up.

I interviewed end of Nov, so hopefully one of those calls comes this way within the next month. When I interviewed they said end of March for the Q and June-ish for the E175. However, the email in January 'projected' end of May for both aircraft. I'm not sure which aircraft I am slotted for at this point but I'm good with either.

c140flyer
02-21-2019, 06:13 PM
Sounds like I'm in the same boat as you guys, although unfortunately for me I interviewed quite a bit later. I check this thread occasionally and appreciate the updates you guys are posting, so thanks for that! They gave us the email and phone number of a specific person and said we were welcome to reach out to them if we wanted an update - anyone try that? Too soon for me to be looking for an update but am curious if they told you guys the same?

majorpilot
02-21-2019, 08:28 PM
However, the email in January 'projected' end of May for both aircraft.


This is almost exactly what my friend was also told, with a person to call with questions. His email said “no sooner than” end of May, so he’s continuing to build time and pay the rent in the interim.

I wonder how many of these “stockpiled” pool swimmers have multiple offers? Presumably the companies have an attrition factor and assume they’ll lose some...otherwise they could be caught short.

RemiDenton
02-28-2019, 08:33 AM
Keeping this thread alive...

Any November hires have dates yet?


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StefK
03-08-2019, 06:00 PM
Keeping this thread alive...

Any November hires have dates yet?


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Interviewed November 7th...just got a call for a March 18th Q class. However, I believe this was due to a dropout. Late April "at the earliest" is what they've been saying for a while.

TyWebb
03-11-2019, 08:11 AM
Interviewed November 7th...just got a call for a March 18th Q class. However, I believe this was due to a dropout. Late April "at the earliest" is what they've been saying for a while.


Did you jump on it? I assume you did. Accurate told me my background was close to being completed so I am hoping to get a hard date as soon as that is g2g.

AkAv8er
03-23-2019, 09:36 PM
I interviewed in late January and got a cjo. I recently emailed with my point of contact asking for a guess as to when I may get a class date. I was told that they have been working through the pool and filling classes as per their hopes/plans. The “highly subject to change guess” was early September.

TyWebb
03-24-2019, 07:07 PM
I interviewed in late January and got a cjo. I recently emailed with my point of contact asking for a guess as to when I may get a class date. I was told that they have been working through the pool and filling classes as per their hopes/plans. The “highly subject to change guess” was early September.

I and other November hires were told March-ish at the interview, then told late May or June during a mass email in January, but recently received a class date for mid April. All that to say there’s hope and that they are definitely working through the pool.

Fixnem2Flyinem
03-24-2019, 08:04 PM
I and other November hires were told March-ish at the interview, then told late May or June during a mass email in January, but recently received a class date for mid April. All that to say there’s hope and that they are definitely working through the pool.

Q or Jet??

TyWebb
03-24-2019, 09:49 PM
Originally slotted for the Q but received the jet

Fixnem2Flyinem
03-24-2019, 10:14 PM
Originally slotted for the Q but received the jet

Right on, welcome aboard.

29singlespeed
03-25-2019, 09:13 AM
Based on the times from CJO to class date, what is good timing to submit an application if one is a few months out from the ATP min's?

StefK
03-26-2019, 05:30 PM
Based on the times from CJO to class date, what is good timing to submit an application if one is a few months out from the ATP min's?

About 6 months out is the norm but Horizon training is rather backed up at the moment so ASAP

StefK
03-26-2019, 05:33 PM
Originally slotted for the Q but received the jet

Any news on a class date?

Bons
03-26-2019, 09:35 PM
Any news on a class date?
Told them I want the Q. Phone pre interview with Deja recently said they are setting up interviews for Aug and September for Oct/Nov?? Class dates....

RemiDenton
03-26-2019, 09:38 PM
Got an email today stating “early fall”. On another note compass called me and I can start in May... sooo...they’re making this really easy.


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TyWebb
03-27-2019, 07:09 AM
Any news on a class date?

15 April - interview/cjo was mid November

stang
03-30-2019, 07:08 AM
Got an email today stating “early fall”. On another note compass called me and I can start in May... sooo...they’re making this really easy.

Just curious how long it took from application to a call from compass and what your times were? I have applied to both Horizon and Compass and applied early looking for 6mo+ out start date. TSA called right away after application submit and scheduled interview.

Excargodog
03-30-2019, 05:30 PM
Got an email today stating “early fall”. On another note compass called me and I can start in May... sooo...they’re making this really easy.


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Welcome! With luck you can be holding a line by early Fall, unless you want PHX. It’s a little more senior.

CurseURedBaron
04-02-2019, 11:40 PM
Compass has a PHX base now? When did that open?

word302
04-03-2019, 08:05 AM
Compass has a PHX base now? When did that open?

Lol. At least a year ago.

Excargodog
04-03-2019, 10:41 AM
Compass has a PHX base now? When did that open?

Announced Aug 18 2017. Opened a few months later:

https://youtu.be/SOVqxI4ym1Q

majorpilot
06-07-2019, 06:34 AM
Any news on a class date?


My friend who was hired in December just got offered a class date of July or August. Not sure he will go, he picked up a 135 TPIC gig while waiting. The prospect of commuting to not fly while making half the money is pretty unpalatable.

Excargodog
06-10-2019, 10:25 PM
My friend who was hired in December just got offered a class date of July or August. Not sure he will go, he picked up a 135 TPIC gig while waiting. The prospect of commuting to not fly while making half the money is pretty unpalatable.

See the thread on warehousing pilots. A number of regionals - especially Horizon - seem more than happy to hire pilots to sit reserve not building hours. If you are someone with considerable time who just needs currency and a new type rating, that might be OK. But if you have a bare 1500 TT (or less as an RATP) and you wind up being stuck on reserve flying minimal hours you are really screwing yourself. Do the math.

The Horizon APC profile currently lists 850 pilots. Alaska lists 2800. If the projected 2% growth in Alaska comes to fruition that’s an additional 56 pilots. Alaska mandatory retirements will be averaging about 55 pilots a year in the near future. Assuming no military or OTS hires (and we know that’s not going to happen) that’s about seven and a half years to flow to Alaska. More realistically, it’s twice that.

The only way for a newbie to get to a major much faster than that is to go to some place OTHER than Alaska. But to do that they are going to have to be competitive and the retirement wave at the other legacies and SWA will pretty much peak in anywhere from three to five years. It’ll still be decent after that, at least for a few years, but the peak will have passed.

If you have only 1500 hours (or less) and spend a year or two flying only three or four hundred hours a year you are NOT going to be remotely competitive with your peers at other regionals who are flying 75 hrs a month those two years. You may be getting paid as much (or more) than they are, but four years from now when they have 4500+ hours and you have 3500, with less than 1000 TPIC, guess who is going to be getting the call?

So yeah, a 135 TPIC job, even if it doesn’t get you quite the hours a 121 job OUGHT to get you, might not be a bad thing to consider. Either that or a regional that will actually fly you.

I gotta admit, living in base, flying rarely but collecting guarantee might be sort of fun for a short while, but long term, if you aren’t getting a line and logging serious hours pretty quickly, you are just p1§§ing away the future you could have had.

Stinger6
06-11-2019, 05:15 AM
See the thread on warehousing pilots. A number of regionals - especially Horizon - seem more than happy to hire pilots to sit reserve not building hours. If you are someone with considerable time who just needs currency and a new type rating, that might be OK. But if you have a bare 1500 TT (or less as an RATP) and you wind up being stuck on reserve flying minimal hours you are really screwing yourself. Do the math.

The Horizon APC profile currently lists 850 pilots. Alaska lists 2800. If the projected 2% growth in Alaska comes to fruition that’s an additional 56 pilots. Alaska mandatory retirements will be averaging about 55 pilots a year in the near future. Assuming no military or OTS hires (and we know that’s not going to happen) that’s about seven and a half years to flow to Alaska. More realistically, it’s twice that.

The only way for a newbie to get to a major much faster than that is to go to some place OTHER than Alaska. But to do that they are going to have to be competitive and the retirement wave at the other legacies and SWA will pretty much peak in anywhere from three to five years. It’ll still be decent after that, at least for a few years, but the peak will have passed.

If you have only 1500 hours (or less) and spend a year or two flying only three or four hundred hours a year you are NOT going to be remotely competitive with your peers at other regionals who are flying 75 hrs a month those two years. You may be getting paid as much (or more) than they are, but four years from now when they have 4500+ hours and you have 3500, with less than 1000 TPIC, guess who is going to be getting the call?

So yeah, a 135 TPIC job, even if it doesn’t get you quite the hours a 121 job OUGHT to get you, might not be a bad thing to consider. Either that or a regional that will actually fly you.

I gotta admit, living in base, flying rarely but collecting guarantee might be sort of fun for a short while, but long term, if you aren’t getting a line and logging serious hours pretty quickly, you are just p1§§ing away the future you could have had.

This is a well constructed point. Escargotdog may have always been this constructive, and I didn't have ears to hear until I got to a line at QX and started sitting around.



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