Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : ABX Upgrade Times


Jurassic Jet
08-06-2018, 07:46 PM
The top 46 First Officers out of 112 on the current bid list at ABX have had careers that have now touched two different centuries and three (soon to be four) different decades.

The most senior First Officer was hired in 1991. Number 46 was the last one hired during the 20th century. There is an 11 year gap between #46 and #47.

Beginning at number 17, (due to bypasses, etc.) and with a hire date of 1996, that person could not even hold a Captain spot if he wanted to. 22 years in so far and no chance of upgrade anytime soon.

Our most junior Captain was hired in 1996. (That was last century if youíre keeping track.)

Food for thought. Just saying.


HercDriver130
08-06-2018, 09:13 PM
The top 46 First Officers out of 112 on the current bid list at ABX have had careers that have now touched two different centuries and three (soon to be four) different decades.

The most senior First Officer was hired in 1991. Number 46 was the last one hired during the 20th century. There is an 11 year gap between #46 and #47.

Beginning at number 17, (due to bypasses, etc.) and with a hire date of 1996, that person could not even hold a Captain spot if he wanted to. 22 years in so far and no chance of upgrade anytime soon.

Our most junior Captain was hired in 1996. (That was last century if youíre keeping track.)

Food for thought. Just saying.

then all those CA's should be dying soon....

threeighteen
08-06-2018, 09:14 PM
Sounds like ABX is ripe for quick upgrades here in a few years.


tiredofjrm
08-06-2018, 10:26 PM
then all those CA's should be dying soon....

Omg 😂😂 Iím in tears...

woog315
08-07-2018, 03:32 AM
Sounds like ABX is ripe for quick upgrades here in a few years.

Hah, hah, hah. They are parking planes and losing contracts nearly as fast as they are retiring captains. There is negative growth here, and there is little reason to think that will change. We've been beaten to the punch by our sister/whipsaw airline. Plenty of guys with a decade+ left that will occupy the shrinking number of captain seats for many years to come! I hope I'm not around when most jr captain hits 30 years of seniority.

nitefr8dog
08-07-2018, 04:36 AM
Hah, hah, hah. They are parking planes and losing contracts nearly as fast as they are retiring captains. There is negative growth here, and there is little reason to think that will change. We've been beaten to the punch by our sister/whipsaw airline. Plenty of guys with a decade+ left that will occupy the shrinking number of captain seats for many years to come! I hope I'm not around when most jr captain hits 30 years of seniority.
With that in mind.....why are you still at ABX?

Industry Strnd
08-07-2018, 05:27 AM
With that in mind.....why are you still at ABX?

Most have apps out and are leaving in case you haven't seen the list turn over at the bottom! Appears ATSG is shutting down ABX slowly. There will be jobs out there for those who wait till the last day.

gumpscheck
08-07-2018, 05:30 AM
then all those CA's should be dying soon....

What??? Dying???... Sixty is the new twenty!!! ;)

gumpscheck
08-07-2018, 05:38 AM
Sounds like ABX is ripe for quick upgrades here in a few years.

Donít count on it. Upgrades would need route and/or fleet expansion. The opposite is happening at ABX. Because the ATSG and the ABX management refuses to change their ways of trying to beat down on the ABX pilot group, contract negotiations are going nowhere. So in turn DHL is rewarding K4 with more flying. Amazon is about to follow suit. So the ABX president might be in self fulfilling prophecy situation. ABX will shut down but due to his managerial failure and nothing to do with anything the pilots have or could do.

gumpscheck
08-07-2018, 05:41 AM
With that in mind.....why are you still at ABX?

Perhaps because of age. At a certain point it doesnít make any sense trying to start all over again.

DC8DRIVER
08-07-2018, 07:30 AM
With that in mind.....why are you still at ABX?

Only antagonists ask this question and it appears every time a pilot posts a negative comment about their airline. There is no other reason for asking the question other than to troll for an argument. It is unprofessional and unproductive.

To build on the previous post about why a pilot would decide to stay, there are a lot of reasons that a pilot would not want to leave their company yet would continue to "complain" about their situation (not to mention the fact that many who post negative comments about their company are TRYING to leave but have not yet been able to leave). A sample of these reasons might include: Age, medical, legal, seniority, geographic, family, education, loyalty, financial, professional, emotional, physical, or personal.

There is also the fact that most people who post negative things about their airline (which is a REALLY BIG NUMBER!) want to stay at their airline and fight for improved working conditions. This is why many airline pilots work under good, lucrative contracts these days. They have stayed and fought for better situation rather than running away when things get hard.

Only cowards ask the questions "why are you still at ... " or "why don't you just leave ... ". It's not really a legitimate question about working conditions or opinions about the future of a particular airline. It is a question asked to antagonize and delegitimize someone who posts a critical statement and it is posted by people who only wish to degrade intelligent discussions on APC.

dynap09
08-07-2018, 07:47 AM
Only antagonists ask this question and it appears every time a pilot posts a negative comment about their airline.

The seniority issue is a meaningful piece of this. I think some folks just don't feel like starting as a year 1 FO / doing reserve etc.

It's kind of mind blowing that ATI has upgrades in 3-4 years to CA (?) and ABX might have someone as FO for 20+ years?

dynap09
08-07-2018, 07:57 AM
ABX will shut down but due to his managerial failure and nothing to do with anything the pilots have or could do.

A surprise strike that trapped customer cargo and generated headlines didn't impact DHL / Amazon thinking? Trap their stuff - they just aren't going to do business again - economics doesn't matter. I know the ABX pilots trash management, trash ATI etc etc, but it's a pilot group that doesn't seem at all self reflective.

gumpscheck
08-07-2018, 09:32 AM
A surprise strike that trapped customer cargo and generated headlines didn't impact DHL / Amazon thinking? Trap their stuff - they just aren't going to do business again - economics doesn't matter. I know the ABX pilots trash management, trash ATI etc etc, but it's a pilot group that doesn't seem at all self reflective.

Donít talk without knowing the details. The ABX 1224 EXCO forewarned the ATSG upper management about the impending manning problems coming in the fourth quarter of 2016. The ATSG management replied by applying even more contractual violations and ignoring the manning problems forecasted. This after the ABX 1224 EXCO bailing out ATSG and ABX during the fourth quarter of 2015 due to the same manning reasons. The General Membership told the EXCO we are not doing it again and then be treated like dog poop. Plus late in the summer of 2016 the ABX EXCO presented a compromise proposal to the ATSG upper management to guarantee the even distribution of the ATSGís airplanes between ABX & ATI. ATSGís reply was that there are no guarantees in life. The ABX EXCO was protecting you guys at ATI. What did we get in return? Multiple stabs in the back.

Just so you know, the Amazon contract is between ATSG and Amazon. Amazon could care less how the flying is distributed internally in ATSG. The only reason you guys are getting all of those Amazon painted ATSG airplanes is due to the ABXís Scope Clause and the lack of a Scope Clause at ATI. So donít get any illusions that you guys are the chosen ones.

Donít forget we have known JH longer than you guys. We are very experienced in his ways.

nitefr8dog
08-07-2018, 06:17 PM
Only antagonists ask this question and it appears every time a pilot posts a negative comment about their airline. There is no other reason for asking the question other than to troll for an argument. It is unprofessional and unproductive.

To build on the previous post about why a pilot would decide to stay, there are a lot of reasons that a pilot would not want to leave their company yet would continue to "complain" about their situation (not to mention the fact that many who post negative comments about their company are TRYING to leave but have not yet been able to leave). A sample of these reasons might include: Age, medical, legal, seniority, geographic, family, education, loyalty, financial, professional, emotional, physical, or personal.

There is also the fact that most people who post negative things about their airline (which is a REALLY BIG NUMBER!) want to stay at their airline and fight for improved working conditions. This is why many airline pilots work under good, lucrative contracts these days. They have stayed and fought for better situation rather than running away when things get hard.

Only cowards ask the questions "why are you still at ... " or "why don't you just leave ... ". It's not really a legitimate question about working conditions or opinions about the future of a particular airline. It is a question asked to antagonize and delegitimize someone who posts a critical statement and it is posted by people who only wish to degrade intelligent discussions on APC.
You actually act as if anyone gives a rats a$$ about what you think. I see guys crying about the working conditions and I seriously wonder why they still work there....do something else....anything else if you are miserable.

LRSRanger
08-08-2018, 02:38 AM
Try around 2 years or less.

The seniority issue is a meaningful piece of this. I think some folks just don't feel like starting as a year 1 FO / doing reserve etc.

It's kind of mind blowing that ATI has upgrades in 3-4 years to CA (?) and ABX might have someone as FO for 20+ years?

mukalel
08-08-2018, 02:44 AM
The seniority issue is a meaningful piece of this. I think some folks just don't feel like starting as a year 1 FO / doing reserve etc.

It's kind of mind blowing that ATI has upgrades in 3-4 years to CA (?) and ABX might have someone as FO for 20+ years?

ATI has under 2 year upgrdes.. and year 20 f/o s are still doing reserve at abx .. lol

dynap09
08-08-2018, 01:20 PM
2 years doesn't make sense to me. Who is filling FO slots then with upgrades that quick? Or is this some terrible line that goes super junior?

ATACCIATI
08-08-2018, 04:09 PM
ATI has under 2 year upgrdes.. and year 20 f/o s are still doing reserve at abx .. lol

While 2yrs made it in the past upgrade is a little longer now. Still one of the best airlines in the industry. Someday maybe surpass the majors and equal Brown or Purple.

nitefr8dog
08-08-2018, 04:29 PM
While 2yrs made it in the past upgrade is a little longer now. Still one of the best airlines in the industry. Someday maybe surpass the majors and equal Brown or Purple.
Haha....someday maybe surpass the majors and equal Brown or Purple....your killing me! Have you peed in a cup lately? LMAO

motorclutch
08-08-2018, 04:40 PM
This guy has a [email protected] in his ear! Think it belongs to the most loathed VP in the industry.

l8fr82hub
08-08-2018, 06:54 PM
You actually act as if anyone gives a rats a$$ about what you think. I see guys crying about the working conditions and I seriously wonder why they still work there....do something else....anything else if you are miserable.

...and no one gives a rats a$$ about what you think either jacka$$...

Reactivity
08-08-2018, 07:50 PM
ATI has under 2 year upgrdes.. and year 20 f/o s are still doing reserve at abx .. lol

If a 20-year FO is doing reserve at ABX, it's because that 20-year FO bid for it. There are 2-year FOs who get a flying line every month.

Reactivity
08-08-2018, 07:52 PM
Haha....someday maybe surpass the majors and equal Brown or Purple....your killing me! Have you peed in a cup lately? LMAO

I thought ATACCIATI might be trolling before. Now I know he is.

Kougarok
08-08-2018, 09:29 PM
While 2yrs made it in the past upgrade is a little longer now. Still one of the best airlines in the industry. Someday maybe surpass the majors and equal Brown or Purple.

Are you ****ing serious you moron?

nitefr8dog
08-09-2018, 04:39 PM
...and no one gives a rats a$$ about what you think either jacka$$...
Touched a nerve did I...haha

nitefr8dog
08-09-2018, 04:41 PM
I thought ATACCIATI might be trolling before. Now I know he is.
Exactly.....nobody could be that big of an idiot..

sherpster
08-09-2018, 08:26 PM
ATI has under 2 year upgrdes.. and year 20 f/o s are still doing reserve at abx .. lol

Maybe thats true but iíd rather be a bathtoom attendant at a strip club than work for ATI. Loser company full of loser pilots. What do you get off? 13 days a month? How much does a 2 yr cpt make? You guys sold your soul to the devil and many people in the industry wont forget it. You guys undercut the only decent acmi carrier (until k4 got a contract) and you will always be a trash pilot group who cares more about Amazon bag tags than self respect. Suck ATI you sell outs

727CA
08-09-2018, 10:50 PM
Sweet Jesus man thatís pretty harsh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

motorclutch
08-10-2018, 04:38 AM
Hey Sherpster.....you hit the nail on the head.

sherpster
08-10-2018, 04:43 AM
YOU ARE NOT AN AMAZON PRIME AIR PILOT. Stop telling that to your friends and family, it doesnt make you any cooler. Are you putting that on your resume? I would love to see how that PRIA request gets processed. Hopefully your local Amazon wharehouse hires you to sweep the floor when Amazon stops contracting with ATSG

Sellout

sherpster
08-10-2018, 04:49 AM
Hey Sherpster.....you hit the nail on the head.

Whats up motor? Hope all is well man.

b707guy
08-10-2018, 05:54 AM
Maybe thats true but iíd rather be a bathtoom attendant at a strip club than work for ATI. Loser company full of loser pilots. What do you get off? 13 days a month? How much does a 2 yr cpt make? You guys sold your soul to the devil and many people in the industry wont forget it. You guys undercut the only decent acmi carrier (until k4 got a contract) and you will always be a trash pilot group who cares more about Amazon bag tags than self respect. Suck ATI you sell outs


Knock yourself out in that strip club - maybe catch a raging case of sherpes.


No, we don't get 13 days off a month. Many of us get 13 out of 28 days off. A lot of us get 14 out of 28. Sucks, don't it?


How much does 2 yr cpt make? About $1000 less than your 20 yr FO, without whoring out or getting a single dollar of soft money. Our last upgrade announcement included a 2yr1mo loser pilot as the most junior selectee. When he finishes training, he'll be making about $30k more than your 20 yr FO. That sucks.


Thanks to your generous sharing, I've now seen one of these bag tags.


I'm not suggesting you go cold turkey, as I could only imagine how difficult that might be. But perhaps cut back a little on the size of the bowls of phalluses you've apparently been eating for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day? Your friends (if you have any...) will probably appreciate it, too.

sherpster
08-10-2018, 06:03 AM
Dear scab, I dont work at Abx anymore but your undercutting of the profession affects every professional pilot and specifically my friends still at Abx.

b707guy
08-10-2018, 06:31 AM
Dear scab, I dont work at Abx anymore but your undercutting of the profession affects every professional pilot and specifically my friends still at Abx.


I see I missed addressing a few of your points:


"You guys sold your soul to the devil and many people in the industry wont forget it." OK, so there are many people out there who won't forget it. But the VAST majority doesn't even care.


"You guys undercut the only decent acmi carrier (until k4 got a contract)"
Interesting that K4 is now a decent acmi carrier, thanks to their contract. Ours is very much on par with theirs. In some ways a little better, in some ways not so much. But we're the devil now. The only place ATI is as bad as you think is inside your cavernous and very thickly walled skull. Why is ABX even an ACMI carrier now? Because they (not you, any more, apparently) have about as much control over all of this as we do. ZIP.



I'll make you a deal. Since you're apparently as much of a scab as I am, then I'll stop killing puppies, stealing purses from helpless old ladies, and frightening children as soon as you do.


In the meantime, I'm going to go enjoy a nice, healthy breakfast. One that I'm guessing won't leave as much of a bitter taste as yours has.

727CA
08-10-2018, 06:40 AM
Iíve never seen such a disgruntled and bitter group of people in my years of flying professionally.
By the way, please review the definition of scab.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kougarok
08-10-2018, 07:47 AM
Iíve never seen such a disgruntled and bitter group of people in my years of flying professionally.
By the way, please review the definition of scab.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You guys are a joke.

FlyAstarJets
08-10-2018, 08:24 AM
Iíve never seen such a disgruntled and bitter group of people in my years of flying professionally.
By the way, please review the definition of scab.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The issue boils down to this...
ABX 1224 sold their soul with a concessionary contract so as to continue to suck at the DHL teet. Then the ďnifty 50Ē continued to crap on their own furloughed pilots by gorging themselves on as much open time as they could legally (maybe) grab. They are so filled with hate and self loathing, that they canít help but project it on to others because, well....Ēit has to be someone elseís faultĒ. Itís all ATIís fault for not giving in to 1224ís hostile demands that we bend over for a SCC, and give, GIVE, up our home basing. Itís all ATIís fault that we didnít cave into your EXCOís threat, and I quote, ďwe will scope you out of existence. Youíll be nothing more than a four airplane Combi airlineĒ.

At the end of the day, you can hate all want on ATI, but it all comes down to this. The only folks to blame for the predicament yíall are in is yourselves.

cargowarrior
08-10-2018, 02:48 PM
A strikebreaker (sometimes derogatorily called a scab, blackleg, or knobstick) is a person who works despite an ongoing strike. Strikebreakers are usually individuals who were not employed by the company prior to the trade union dispute, but rather hired after or during the strike to keep the organization running. "Strikebreakers" may also refer to workers (union members or not) who cross picket lines to work.
Aka Wikipedia 🙄

a : a contemptible person
b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms / dictionary Merrian-Webster

nitefr8dog
08-10-2018, 03:09 PM
A strikebreaker (sometimes derogatorily called a scab, blackleg, or knobstick) is a person who works despite an ongoing strike. Strikebreakers are usually individuals who were not employed by the company prior to the trade union dispute, but rather hired after or during the strike to keep the organization running. "Strikebreakers" may also refer to workers (union members or not) who cross picket lines to work.
Aka Wikipedia 🙄

a : a contemptible person
b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms / dictionary Merrian-Webster
Scab...and working with scabs. And the whole industry knows it. Old guys who had to many busts or dwi's and were scared of ABX training program. New guys who want a quick type and some 767 time and head to a real airline with retirement and a future . Just like ABX the majority of ATI flying could be gone tomorrow.

nitefr8dog
08-10-2018, 03:30 PM
The issue boils down to this...
ABX 1224 sold their soul with a concessionary contract so as to continue to suck at the DHL teet. Then the ďnifty 50Ē continued to crap on their own furloughed pilots by gorging themselves on as much open time as they could legally (maybe) grab. They are so filled with hate and self loathing, that they canít help but project it on to others because, well....Ēit has to be someone elseís faultĒ. Itís all ATIís fault for not giving in to 1224ís hostile demands that we bend over for a SCC, and give, GIVE, up our home basing. Itís all ATIís fault that we didnít cave into your EXCOís threat, and I quote, ďwe will scope you out of existence. Youíll be nothing more than a four airplane Combi airlineĒ.

At the end of the day, you can hate all want on ATI, but it all comes down to this. The only folks to blame for the predicament yíall are in is yourselves.
I think most of us hate the ATI chicken$h!t$ pilot group who agreed to a horible scheduling rules, crappy Disabilty, low pay raise contract that is now the ATSG standard. And the scabs......
There is a reason we are using K4 plus instead of ATI for the high watermark.
Idiots....
Plus the furloughed pilots voted overwhelmingly for the concessionary contract to get their incredibly high DHL funded severance checks. You can't have it both ways!

cargowarrior
08-10-2018, 03:33 PM
Scab...and working with scabs. And the whole industry knows it. Old guys who had to many busts or dwi's and were scared of ABX training program. New guys who want a quick type and some 767 time and head to a real airline with retirement and a future . Just like ABX the majority of ATI flying could be gone tomorrow.

I donít blame those who went to ATI for work, I came to ABX for the experience just like those at ATI. While I would love to make a career out of ABX, the future is bleak. So Iíll do my time and move on. Iíll do my part to make it a better place for the next guy. I wonít chastise an entire airline group for the actions of a few.

nitefr8dog
08-10-2018, 04:39 PM
I donít blame those who went to ATI for work, I came to ABX for the experience just like those at ATI. While I would love to make a career out of ABX, the future is bleak. So Iíll do my time and move on. Iíll do my part to make it a better place for the next guy. I wonít chastise an entire airline group for the actions of a few.
And good for you....you came to ABX with plans to leave. Quite a few did not and the [email protected] at ATI took a lowball contract when the whole world is getting more....and now ATSG/ABX management thinks for some crazy reason ABX pilots will take one in the tailpipe like ATI did.

b707guy
08-10-2018, 05:25 PM
I think most of us hate the ATI chicken$h!t$ pilot group who agreed to a horible scheduling rules, crappy Disabilty, low pay raise contract that is now the ATSG standard. And the scabs......
There is a reason we are using K4 plus instead of ATI for the high watermark.
Idiots....
Plus the furloughed pilots voted overwhelmingly for the concessionary contract to get their incredibly high DHL funded severance checks. You can't have it both ways!


Hate all you want. Like flattery, it'll get you nowhere.


So let me get this straight: ATI wasn't the ATSG standard when we were the worst airline and the lowest paid idiots on the ramp? But now that we are paid better than ABX (short of being baby-eating *****s or enjoying the benefit of unsustainable soft money, which we've never had, all when no one here "owns" anything) and work less (unless we want to), while never having to beg for a jump seat, own a crash pad, or an extra car, and, most importantly, raised the bar to a level no less than K4 (and Omni, who 1224 graciously decided to finally let vote on their own CBA only after the numbers behind our matching "low pay raise contract" were leaked), we're the new standard? Amazing how that works. And all that, despite that we don't have a FLEET of 747s (or 777s), and we do have a bunch of 757s.


Like K4 and like Omni, ATI has a true ACMI contract. It's what we do. It's imperfect. It's flexible. It addresses a dynamic atmosphere. Don't think for a second that K4+ wasn't our starting point. In fact, call it K4++. They were at it for a bit longer than we were, but they fought the good fight, and set the bar. We're on our third CBA, rising out of ashes. We scored huge gains compared with our previous CBA. THAT's ALL that's important. We raised the bar significantly for us, and kept the bar high for the next guys. That's ABX and Atlas. And at the same time, we've managed to NOT alienate our customers. We've managed to NOT alienate our mechanics, our loading crews, our admin folk, our van/limo drivers, our hotels.


And it's really interesting that MOST of you all here hate us. "MOST" of you constitutes what, exactly? About 10 of you? I can tell you this: 100% of you who enjoy our jumpseats don't seem to share your disdain. Or are you calling your own out as hypocrites? Again, funny how that works...

nitefr8dog
08-10-2018, 06:07 PM
Hate all you want. Like flattery, it'll get you nowhere.


So let me get this straight: ATI wasn't the ATSG standard when we were the worst airline and the lowest paid idiots on the ramp? But now that we are paid better than ABX (short of being baby-eating *****s or enjoying the benefit of unsustainable soft money, which we've never had, all when no one here "owns" anything) and work less (unless we want to), while never having to beg for a jump seat, own a crash pad, or an extra car, and, most importantly, raised the bar to a level no less than K4 (and Omni, who 1224 graciously decided to finally let vote on their own CBA only after the numbers behind our matching "low pay raise contract" were leaked), we're the new standard? Amazing how that works. And all that, despite that we don't have a FLEET of 747s (or 777s), and we do have a bunch of 757s.


Like K4 and like Omni, ATI has a true ACMI contract. It's what we do. It's imperfect. It's flexible. It addresses a dynamic atmosphere. Don't think for a second that K4+ wasn't our starting point. In fact, call it K4++. They were at it for a bit longer than we were, but they fought the good fight, and set the bar. We're on our third CBA, rising out of ashes. We scored huge gains compared with our previous CBA. THAT's ALL that's important. We raised the bar significantly for us, and kept the bar high for the next guys. That's ABX and Atlas. And at the same time, we've managed to NOT alienate our customers. We've managed to NOT alienate our mechanics, our loading crews, our admin folk, our van/limo drivers, our hotels.


And it's really interesting that MOST of you all here hate us. "MOST" of you constitutes what, exactly? About 10 of you? I can tell you this: 100% of you who enjoy our jumpseats don't seem to share your disdain. Or are you calling your own out as hypocrites? Again, funny how that works...
You all took a lowball dog$hit contract in these times.....sellout...

b707guy
08-10-2018, 07:01 PM
You all took a lowball dog$hit contract in these times.....sellout...


Keep wearing those blinders to bed, the shower, with family, friends, etc. They're obviously serving you well in your perfect world.

t207
08-10-2018, 07:35 PM
b707 guy,

ATIs contract is not even in the same ballpark as K4, and OMNI. You all bought a [email protected] sandwitch with the new contract at ATI. It sure as he11 won't help ABX or Atlas with their negotiations. ATI fd the entire sector of the industry going forward!

b707guy
08-10-2018, 07:44 PM
b707 guy,

ATIs contract is not even in the same ballpark as K4, and OMNI. You all bought a [email protected] sandwitch with the new contract at ATI. It sure as he11 won't help ABX or Atlas with their negotiations. ATI fd the entire sector of the industry going forward!


My familiarity with Omni's contract is based solely on their publicly-released source. But, obviously, you've studied all three CBAs cover to cover. So do enlighten me with what constitutes your ballpark.

t207
08-10-2018, 07:54 PM
my ballpark is equal or better than K4, or Omni. Based on a publicly released source you are still less than by a good deal.

b707guy
08-10-2018, 07:57 PM
my ballpark is equal or better than K4, or Omni. Based on a publicly released source you are still less than by a good deal.


Yeah, I thought so. Provide details, or give it up now. I'll be happy to refute, corroborate, all-out support, or disprove anything you say that puts us in a different league.

t207
08-10-2018, 08:07 PM
Well I am at Omni and K4 is equal to what we have I have a friend that's an FO at ATI and I have that bit of inside info. you are the one that stated you are using publicly released info. and based on that alone you are behind. based on what I know of my contract you are WAY behind!

good day

b707guy
08-10-2018, 08:24 PM
Well I am at Omni and K4 is equal to what we have I have a friend that's an FO at ATI and I have that bit of inside info. you are the one that stated you are using publicly released info. and based on that alone you are behind. based on what I know of my contract you are WAY behind!

good day


So, in other words, you don't have a clue. Or, you have a mis- or uninformed clue. Which is probably worse. Please put your ATI FO friend in touch with any of his reps for some clarification. Believe me.

Kougarok
08-10-2018, 08:53 PM
You all took a lowball dog$hit contract in these times.....sellout...

Sellouts and scabs...

Kougarok
08-10-2018, 08:59 PM
You know what I am not going to *****foot around about it! The pilots at our sister airline ATI that crossed our picket line are scabs and should be treated as such along with JV and MW. The ATI pilots that didnít cross our line and walked with us I applaude. Pretty much as simple as that.

727CA
08-11-2018, 07:11 PM
You know what I am not going to *****foot around about it! The pilots at our sister airline ATI that crossed our picket line are scabs and should be treated as such along with JV and MW.

Careful.. you do know ATI just negotiated your next contract. If and when (hopefully not at all) ATI and ABX become one airline, whats left of the ABX pilot group will be raising gear for MiniV.
Regarding this so called "strike", funny how there's no photographs of this so called picket line, none of these "scabs" are listed on the scab list and there's no names of the pilots who supposidly "crossed" your picket line. Remember ABX and ATI are separate airlines, backed up by a decision from the NMB.
Half of the pilots who were not on duty that day didn't even know about all this drama until a day or two later. It almost seems like you guys intentionally kept your "strike" a secret from every other CVG pilot in hopes of other pilots continuing to fly their trips because they didn't have knowledge of this "strike". Usual strike protocol was not followed, there was no cooling off period etc. How difficult would it have been for your Exco to email the ATI pilot group to inform us of what was about to happen.
Besides, ABX has no freight of their own, it's all DHL/Amazon--separate companies. ABX operates their own seperate routes from anyone else. ATI did not fly freight on dedicated routes that was normally flown by ABX. ATI didn't fly struck work, ATI didn't take any pilot jobs from ABX, no ATI pilots were hired to replace striking ABX pilots, every ATI pilot is a union member (not even Teamsters)
Here's your logic. If United Airlines strikes, all the other 6 passenger airlines operating LAX-DFW will have to strike too, otherwise they would all be scabs because they're flying displaced United passengers. Struck work. That includes American, Spirit, Compass, Delta, Skywest.

No Land 3
08-11-2018, 08:23 PM
Occhams Razor, how much money can the average first year FO at ATI gross? At K4, with little to no O/T, just doing the normal schedule, a first year FO can expect to gross around 130k. With a good amount of OT, 150k+.
I've been told at WGA they can expect around 96k.
I think this metric cuts through the bullcrap and gets to to meat of the subject.

Wayst
08-11-2018, 11:11 PM
Occhams Razor, how much money can the average first year FO at ATI gross? At K4, with little to no O/T, just doing the normal schedule, a first year FO can expect to gross around 130k. With a good amount of OT, 150k+.
I've been told at WGA they can expect around 96k.
I think this metric cuts through the bullcrap and gets to to meat of the subject.



130k first year? I am very curious. Can you please explain how they get paid that much. First year is $107 hr with 64 hour guarantee (= $6,848). Then maybe an extra $700 for per diem (700+6848 = 7548 per month). That is only for 10 months. first two months is training pay (600 per week. $2400). So:

2 training months $2400 x 2 = $4800
10 flying months $ 7548 x 10 = $75480
First year estimated is $80,280.

My calculations are $50k off from yours. Obviously there is something I am missing. Can you please explain?

Lockheed
08-12-2018, 05:21 AM
130k first year? I am very curious. Can you please explain how they get paid that much. First year is $107 hr with 64 hour guarantee (= $6,848). Then maybe an extra $700 for per diem (700+6848 = 7548 per month). That is only for 10 months. first two months is training pay (600 per week. $2400). So:

2 training months $2400 x 2 = $4800
10 flying months $ 7548 x 10 = $75480
First year estimated is $80,280.

My calculations are $50k off from yours. Obviously there is something I am missing. Can you please explain?

we'll NL3 is taking about what guys are actually making today
there are some hungry FO's out there
first off your perdiem is off - closer to 1300 per month
if the guy works a bunch of OT more like 1600+


and no one gets just 64 hrs - just flying regular 16 days average Joe can expect 85-100 hrs - if your really hungry for pay, I've seen guys do 170 pay hrs in a month

I'll give you a for instance - they had a trip going today CVG-ANC-ORD. Double crew flying time 13.5 - pay for the trip would be 28.2
and you would be gone from home less than 48 hrs

that's how it done

nitefr8dog
08-12-2018, 05:27 AM
Careful.. you do know ATI just negotiated your next contract. If and when (hopefully not at all) ATI and ABX become one airline, whats left of the ABX pilot group will be raising gear for MiniV.
Regarding this so called "strike", funny how there's no photographs of this so called picket line, none of these "scabs" are listed on the scab list and there's no names of the pilots who supposidly "crossed" your picket line. Remember ABX and ATI are separate airlines, backed up by a decision from the NMB.
Half of the pilots who were not on duty that day didn't even know about all this drama until a day or two later. It almost seems like you guys intentionally kept your "strike" a secret from every other CVG pilot in hopes of other pilots continuing to fly their trips because they didn't have knowledge of this "strike". Usual strike protocol was not followed, there was no cooling off period etc. How difficult would it have been for your Exco to email the ATI pilot group to inform us of what was about to happen.
Besides, ABX has no freight of their own, it's all DHL/Amazon--separate companies. ABX operates their own seperate routes from anyone else. ATI did not fly freight on dedicated routes that was normally flown by ABX. ATI didn't fly struck work, ATI didn't take any pilot jobs from ABX, no ATI pilots were hired to replace striking ABX pilots, every ATI pilot is a union member (not even Teamsters)
Here's your logic. If United Airlines strikes, all the other 6 passenger airlines operating LAX-DFW will have to strike too, otherwise they would all be scabs because they're flying displaced United passengers. Struck work. That includes American, Spirit, Compass, Delta, Skywest.
Scab.........

nitefr8dog
08-12-2018, 05:28 AM
Careful.. you do know ATI just negotiated your next contract. If and when (hopefully not at all) ATI and ABX become one airline, whats left of the ABX pilot group will be raising gear for MiniV.
Regarding this so called "strike", funny how there's no photographs of this so called picket line, none of these "scabs" are listed on the scab list and there's no names of the pilots who supposidly "crossed" your picket line. Remember ABX and ATI are separate airlines, backed up by a decision from the NMB.
Half of the pilots who were not on duty that day didn't even know about all this drama until a day or two later. It almost seems like you guys intentionally kept your "strike" a secret from every other CVG pilot in hopes of other pilots continuing to fly their trips because they didn't have knowledge of this "strike". Usual strike protocol was not followed, there was no cooling off period etc. How difficult would it have been for your Exco to email the ATI pilot group to inform us of what was about to happen.
Besides, ABX has no freight of their own, it's all DHL/Amazon--separate companies. ABX operates their own seperate routes from anyone else. ATI did not fly freight on dedicated routes that was normally flown by ABX. ATI didn't fly struck work, ATI didn't take any pilot jobs from ABX, no ATI pilots were hired to replace striking ABX pilots, every ATI pilot is a union member (not even Teamsters)
Here's your logic. If United Airlines strikes, all the other 6 passenger airlines operating LAX-DFW will have to strike too, otherwise they would all be scabs because they're flying displaced United passengers. Struck work. That includes American, Spirit, Compass, Delta, Skywest.
Thankfully JH does not want the one airline option...its not about profit and making money, never has been its about him beating his chest and saying... I am the little man in charge we will do it my way at all costs if it ruins us..as far as working under the ATI horible contract...if furloughs happened with the preferential hiring in the contract and ABX pilots flooding ATI seniority list....the contract and representation would not be around long. Either way most at ABX could care less....unlike you idiots, we have been working for the last 3 decades or more with full retirement...it just does not matter. Scabs working for scabs..

No Land 3
08-12-2018, 06:33 AM
130k first year? I am very curious. Can you please explain how they get paid that much. First year is $107 hr with 64 hour guarantee (= $6,848). Then maybe an extra $700 for per diem (700+6848 = 7548 per month). That is only for 10 months. first two months is training pay (600 per week. $2400). So:

2 training months $2400 x 2 = $4800
10 flying months $ 7548 x 10 = $75480
First year estimated is $80,280.

My calculations are $50k off from yours. Obviously there is something I am missing. Can you please explain?

I hardly worked any overtime my first year, maybe six days. I only had one month where I was paid 64 hours and that was because I was lost in the system. Every other month working within my 16 day footprint I would average 90 hours. By the end of the year(Jan 1st to end of December), my income totalled over 130k gross including perdiem which was around 1100 a month. Most people report the same experience, and those who take full advantage of OT can easily see 150 to 160k. We are a happy pilot group.

b707guy
08-12-2018, 08:18 AM
I hardly worked any overtime my first year, maybe six days. I only had one month where I was paid 64 hours and that was because I was lost in the system. Every other month working within my 16 day footprint I would average 90 hours. By the end of the year(Jan 1st to end of December), my income totalled over 130k gross including perdiem which was around 1100 a month. Most people report the same experience, and those who take full advantage of OT can easily see 150 to 160k. We are a happy pilot group.


How about comparing apples with apples. ATI (ABX, too, for that matter) has exactly zero true wide body long haul business. And, at least for now, K4's 767 business is very similar to ATI's. So, how many K4 767 pilots are breaking 64 hours per month without working a day off?


Couple of factors affecting first year pay.


K4 is on DOS+1, and will be on DOS+2 before long. ATI is on DOS. Advantage: K4


K4 uses a training pay plan. ATI starts at full pay from day one.
Advantage: Long term (1 year) K4. Short term, ATI, unless your personal financials can tolerate training pay for a few months.


Life after OE.


K4 has 14 days off minimum out of 30 (max of 16 days on). ATI has 12 days off minimum out of 28 (also a max of 16 days on, but in a shorter "month").
Advantage: Slightly to K4, on paper. But ATI has at least one, and in many cases, two, travel days included in those days on for the non-reserve lines of time. So if you want to look at it from an availability for duty viewpoint, ATI really has 13 or 14 days off, depending on where you live versus what/where you bid to fly. That'sa minimum! Before lines that have 13 or 14 actual days off, and, yes, there are quite a few. On top of that, if an ATI pilot works on one of those travel days, which, again, isn't one of the minimum 12 days off, he gets paid for it. So, without working a single day off, an ATI 757/767 pilot can make up the difference between a K4 pilot's 767 pay. That's today.



Longer range.


K4 offers an advantage from the start, thanks to marginally higher rates, and that they will be on DOS+2 before ATI hits DOS+1, and the likelihood of being assigned the 747 (a prize in itself for many) with pretty much guaranteed overtime.


But if you don't want to spend your life on the other side of the planet, or if you generally prefer domestic or short overseas trips, or whatever your personal needs call for, then life as an ATI 757/767 pilot is pretty much an exact copy of a K4 767 pilot. At least for now. Who knows what the future holds? As I said in another post, better in some ways, not so much in others. But when you iron out the wrinkles, we're on the same level.


And in the end, apples to apples, ATI reaches real-time pay parity with K4 after our DOS+3.



Right now, today, all else being equal, if I were applying to both airlines, and was offered a job at both with similar class dates, and could deal with a 747 life, then K4 wins easily. Right now. The biggest difference is that Connie creates his future. The rest of us seem to be saddled with being able to do what the present provides. Blunt enough?


ATI has managed to survive over the years, despite its best efforts otherwise. Nothing is guaranteed. But if we do keep chugging, pictures of life in the 767 at ATI and at K4 are nearly interchangeable. I'm not trying to sell anyone anything. There are warts and silver linings at both places. The only ones who can't and won't see that are the handful of noisemakers here.

Wayst
08-12-2018, 10:51 AM
we'll NL3 is taking about what guys are actually making today
there are some hungry FO's out there
first off your perdiem is off - closer to 1300 per month
if the guy works a bunch of OT more like 1600+


and no one gets just 64 hrs - just flying regular 16 days average Joe can expect 85-100 hrs - if your really hungry for pay, I've seen guys do 170 pay hrs in a month

I'll give you a for instance - they had a trip going today CVG-ANC-ORD. Double crew flying time 13.5 - pay for the trip would be 28.2
and you would be gone from home less than 48 hrs

that's how it done



Anyone can make great money with OT but being gone an entire month from family is not fun. How do you fly that many hours in a 16 day period when the legal part 121 allowance is 30 flight hours in a 7 day period?

LRSRanger
08-12-2018, 11:20 AM
How about comparing apples with apples. ATI (ABX, too, for that matter) has exactly zero true wide body long haul business. And, at least for now, K4's 767 business is very similar to ATI's. So, how many K4 767 pilots are breaking 64 hours per month without working a day off?


Couple of factors affecting first year pay.


K4 is on DOS+1, and will be on DOS+2 before long. ATI is on DOS. Advantage: K4


K4 uses a training pay plan. ATI starts at full pay from day one.
Advantage: Long term (1 year) K4. Short term, ATI, unless your personal financials can tolerate training pay for a few months.


Life after OE.


K4 has 14 days off minimum out of 30 (max of 16 days on). ATI has 12 days off minimum out of 28 (also a max of 16 days on, but in a shorter "month").
Advantage: Slightly to K4, on paper. But ATI has at least one, and in many cases, two, travel days included in those days on for the non-reserve lines of time. So if you want to look at it from an availability for duty viewpoint, ATI really has 13 or 14 days off, depending on where you live versus what/where you bid to fly. That'sa minimum! Before lines that have 13 or 14 actual days off, and, yes, there are quite a few. On top of that, if an ATI pilot works on one of those travel days, which, again, isn't one of the minimum 12 days off, he gets paid for it. So, without working a single day off, an ATI 757/767 pilot can make up the difference between a K4 pilot's 767 pay. That's today.



Longer range.


K4 offers an advantage from the start, thanks to marginally higher rates, and that they will be on DOS+2 before ATI hits DOS+1, and the likelihood of being assigned the 747 (a prize in itself for many) with pretty much guaranteed overtime.


But if you don't want to spend your life on the other side of the planet, or if you generally prefer domestic or short overseas trips, or whatever your personal needs call for, then life as an ATI 757/767 pilot is pretty much an exact copy of a K4 767 pilot. At least for now. Who knows what the future holds? As I said in another post, better in some ways, not so much in others. But when you iron out the wrinkles, we're on the same level.


And in the end, apples to apples, ATI reaches real-time pay parity with K4 after our DOS+3.



Right now, today, all else being equal, if I were applying to both airlines, and was offered a job at both with similar class dates, and could deal with a 747 life, then K4 wins easily. Right now. The biggest difference is that Connie creates his future. The rest of us seem to be saddled with being able to do what the present provides. Blunt enough?


ATI has managed to survive over the years, despite its best efforts otherwise. Nothing is guaranteed. But if we do keep chugging, pictures of life in the 767 at ATI and at K4 are nearly interchangeable. I'm not trying to sell anyone anything. There are warts and silver linings at both places. The only ones who can't and won't see that are the handful of noisemakers here.

Thanks. That's a great breakdown. Seems like the ATI guys are the only ones here trying to educate. Telling.

abxflyr
08-12-2018, 01:54 PM
Thanks. That's a great breakdown. Seems like the ATI guys are the only ones here trying to educate. Telling.

Just out of curiosity...what is there to educate? You want to know more about the K4 or ATI contract (or current book ABX)?? Download one if you are a member of 1224 or ALPA and review it. Else ask a buddy for a copy, nothing is top secret or requires educating....unless you're unable or unwilling to figure it out yourself.

Overall 707's post was good although it has inaccuracies (or maybe a better way to say it would be "different view") depending on what angle you are coming from.

Just for a simple example..days off.
K4 - 14/30 (14*12=168 off/year) ATI - 12/28 (12*13=156 days off/year) [ATI has a 13 bid cycle/year for those who do not know]. A 12 day difference or what could be a half a month or more of work, again based on view. We all know individualistically, i.e. position/seat, vacation, where you live, luck, etc.... one's mileage will vary. Not meant to be pro or con, you be the judge of that.

Interesting how the thread drift is massive...and the professionalism displayed....well, I'll say no more except it is entertaining! :rolleyes:

Ok, so when was the next upgrade class at ABX again...(lol)

Lockheed
08-12-2018, 02:21 PM
Anyone can make great money with OT but being gone an entire month from family is not fun. How do you fly that many hours in a 16 day period when the legal part 121 allowance is 30 flight hours in a 7 day period?

Look I agree that I like my days off - that wasn't the question was it?

the question was how do you make that much money?


FYI K4 is supplemental - there is no such thing as 30 in 7
we always fly with 1CA and 2FO's at a minimum
which means that we can do 120 hrs in 30 days

also understand that we get a fair amount of soft time
unlike some others we get paid to position and paid for reserve

so ya in 16 days its easy to get 100 hrs pay
85 hard time 15 soft
ya know many of our legs are 10 hrs +
doesn't take many of those to add up

b707guy
08-12-2018, 04:28 PM
Overall 707's post was good although it has inaccuracies (or maybe a better way to say it would be "different view") depending on what angle you are coming from.


Nothing I said is inaccurate, so I'll go with the "different view", or perhaps, "could have been more complete" approach. ;)


If, for instance, you live near CVG and can hold the CVG DHL lines (there are only 8 lines, but they usually tend to go more junior), you'll enjoy 14 or 15 days off out of every 28, depending on whether or not you're on a split line. That comes to between 182 or 195 days off for the calendar year, depending on whether you bounce between "normal" and split lines throughout the year.


A lot of our Amazon lines start in ABE, DFW, ONT, SMF, or SEA. A few in TPA or PHX. Of those, many end in the same place that they started. Some end elsewhere. But, either way, if you live near any of those cities, you'll also generally enjoy 13 of 28 days off, or 169 for the year. More in many cases.



As far as downloading available CBAs... reading someone's unfamiliar CBA and being able to figure out how it actually works are two different animals. Talking with someone about how it works in real life is generally helpful in getting "educated". On the other had, someone who comes here to spew misinformation because someone doesn't want to be correct and does want to create a negative impression is intolerable (not aimed at you at all, flyr!).

goinaround
08-12-2018, 05:32 PM
Nothing I said is inaccurate, so I'll go with the "different view", or perhaps, "could have been more complete" approach. ;)


If, for instance, you live near CVG and can hold the CVG DHL lines (there are only 8 lines, but they usually tend to go more junior), you'll enjoy 14 or 15 days off out of every 28, depending on whether or not you're on a split line. That comes to between 182 or 195 days off for the calendar year, depending on whether you bounce between "normal" and split lines throughout the year.


A lot of our Amazon lines start in ABE, DFW, ONT, SMF, or SEA. A few in TPA or PHX. Of those, many end in the same place that they started. Some end elsewhere. But, either way, if you live near any of those cities, you'll also generally enjoy 13 of 28 days off, or 169 for the year. More in many cases.



As far as downloading available CBAs... reading someone's unfamiliar CBA and being able to figure out how it actually works are two different animals. Talking with someone about how it works in real life is generally helpful in getting "educated". On the other had, someone who comes here to spew misinformation because someone doesn't want to be correct and does want to create a negative impression is intolerable (not aimed at you at all, flyr!).

Taking a job in the ACMI sector thinking that current routes will have you laying over at home is foolish. Routes are constantly shifting. If you want to be home every night....work for Allegiant and move to your base.

b707guy
08-12-2018, 06:52 PM
Taking a job in the ACMI sector thinking that current routes will have you laying over at home is foolish. Routes are constantly shifting. If you want to be home every night....work for Allegiant and move to your base.


Absolute truth. Pick your poison.

vroll1800
08-13-2018, 08:37 PM
The issue boils down to this...
ABX 1224 sold their soul with a concessionary contract so as to continue to suck at the DHL teet. Then the “nifty 50” continued to crap on their own furloughed pilots by gorging themselves on as much open time as they could legally (maybe) grab..

A few things, FAJ.

1) ABX 1224 crafted the concessionary contract not to undercut Astar, but to be more able to get additional non-DHL flying and thus mitigate the effect of SEVERE DHL downsizing and furloughs. That was a key driver.

2). Not all of the nifty 50 gorged themselves on open flying.


In retrospect, I'm not sure how much, if any, good that did as ABX management has not been very adept at drumming up non DHL/Amazon business. But there it is. :(

Re Post #41 (nfd)- A few years ago, I asked a key architect of the 09 contract how he was doing.(He was a furloughee.) He replied that he's getting his top line choices, but that it really didn't matter much as the lines mostly sucked. Oh, the irony of it.

ATACCIATI
08-15-2018, 06:51 PM
B707 FAJ thx!

When you break out cba down like that it compares much better to K4, Omni...

Sad, everyone on here bashes ATI. Our pilot retention says it all though. Granted weíve recently had some senior captains leave but its a very rare event.

l8fr82hub
08-15-2018, 09:10 PM
B707 FAJ thx!

When you break out cba down like that it compares much better to K4, Omni...

Sad, everyone on here bashes ATI. Our pilot retention says it all though. Granted weíve recently had some senior captains leave but its a very rare event.
Only one senior Captain left and got hired at FedEx- the others retired.

nitefr8dog
08-16-2018, 02:42 AM
Thanks. That's a great breakdown. Seems like the ATI guys are the only ones here trying to educate. Telling.
What does any of this have to do with ABX upgrade times..

Fleet Warp
08-16-2018, 03:33 AM
What does any of this have to do with ABX upgrade times..

Absolutely nothing. But you already knew that since you've been actively apart of the abx vs ati discussion in this and other threads. :)

nitefr8dog
08-16-2018, 03:53 AM
Absolutely nothing. But you already knew that since you've been actively apart of the abx vs ati discussion in this and other threads. :)
Thank you.....now maybe it can get back on topic

nitefr8dog
08-19-2018, 03:20 AM
B707 FAJ thx!

When you break out cba down like that it compares much better to K4, Omni...

Sad, everyone on here bashes ATI. Our pilot retention says it all though. Granted weíve recently had some senior captains leave but its a very rare event.
As far as retention goes...you probably don't have a actual figure on how many are trying. Also stamped with ATI on the resume is a real turd in the punch bowl...as far as hoping for an interview elsewhere. I can't imagine anyone in hiring saying "oh boy its ATI get em in quick"

johnny150
08-22-2018, 10:46 AM
ABX just put out a bid for captain upgrade... with only one captain slot available... business is booming!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Jurassic Jet
08-22-2018, 10:58 AM
ABX just put out a bid for captain upgrade... with only one captain slot available... business is booming!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


They will probably have to hire extra office staff for all the applications that will flood in now.

Reactivity
08-22-2018, 01:14 PM
They will probably have to hire extra office staff for all the applications that will flood in now.

I heard somebody say that the last recruiting ad they saw came from a recruiting company, so they may already have taken care of that.

Larry in TN
08-22-2018, 01:38 PM
ABX just put out a bid for captain upgrade... with only one captain slot available... business is booming!
Head of the class!

cargowarrior
08-22-2018, 01:50 PM
Head of the class!

Wow only 17 more years till I can upgrade! Unless I can get into management. 🤦*♂️

Reactivity
08-22-2018, 04:00 PM
ABX just put out a bid for captain upgrade... with only one captain slot available... business is booming!


There are actually two upgrades in this deal. The proffer is for one, but there is one more from the last proffer as well.

nitefr8dog
08-22-2018, 05:56 PM
There are actually two upgrades in this deal. The proffer is for one, but there is one more from the last proffer as well.
BB......... Get out or get fired...

FlyAstarJets
08-23-2018, 05:03 AM
As far as retention goes...you probably don't have a actual figure on how many are trying. Also stamped with ATI on the resume is a real turd in the punch bowl...as far as hoping for an interview elsewhere. I can't imagine anyone in hiring saying "oh boy its ATI get em in quick"

Actually, attrition has been very low.
But for the peeps that have left, oh say like the two most recent guys who got on with FDX and UPS, they must have lied on their apps and falsified their PRIA records, right?:rolleyes:

nitefr8dog
08-23-2018, 06:22 AM
Actually, attrition has been very low.
But for the peeps that have left, oh say like the two most recent guys who got on with FDX and UPS, they must have lied on their apps and falsified their PRIA records, right?:rolleyes:
I would not put past them coming from ATI ...what do they have to lose....but seriously...how many more have been turned down?

Kougarok
08-24-2018, 04:50 AM
BB......... Get out or get fired...

You think heís coming back to the line?

gumpscheck
08-24-2018, 04:52 AM
You think heís coming back to the line?

Any bets on BB coming out?

nitefr8dog
08-24-2018, 06:49 AM
Any bets on BB coming out?
Had no idea he was in the closet....

gumpscheck
08-24-2018, 08:20 AM
Had no idea he was in the closet....

You didnít know? Thatís news from way back...😬

nitefr8dog
08-24-2018, 09:46 AM
You didnít know? Thatís news from way back...😬
Haha...that explains alot 😝

C7fr8dog
09-16-2018, 05:13 AM
The DO took the last captain upgrade at ABX. He has been here since Jan 5, 1990.