Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




Fastest145
08-08-2018, 07:28 AM
Hi guys, Im currently an FO at a regional. Im seriously thinking about taking a LOA to go to the army to fly helo's.

Is this a bad idea????

I know all the army guys leave the army for the airlines but I just think I would be a great experience and not as boring as fling from MIA to CLE.


wrxpilot
08-08-2018, 07:52 AM
Hi guys, Im currently an FO at a regional. Im seriously thinking about taking a LOA to go to the army to fly helo's.

Is this a bad idea????

I know all the army guys leave the army for the airlines but I just think I would be a great experience and not as boring as fling from MIA to CLE.

Do you want to fly helos or be an airline pilot as a long term goal?

Sliceback
08-08-2018, 08:16 AM
If youíre young enough to get into the military youíd have a long airline career. Each additional year at the end of a major airline career is worth approx $600,000. Exactly how bored are you? $600,000? $1.2 million? $1.8 million? $2.4 million?

If anything Iíd try to get a major job and then leave.


Hobbit64
08-08-2018, 10:03 AM
If youíre young enough to get into the military youíd have a long airline career. Each additional year at the end of a major airline career is worth approx $600,000. Exactly how bored are you? $600,000? $1.2 million? $1.8 million? $2.4 million?

If anything Iíd try to get a major job and then leave.

Reposted for Emphasis....

rickair7777
08-08-2018, 11:03 AM
If age and timing work, get a major job first.

USERRA will allow you to perform initial military training and all incurred AD obligations and still return with seniority intact (as though you never left). This applies to either guard/reserve or regular AD, ie you could join AD do ten plus years, and come back as though you had never left seniority and pay wise. Obviously better to be at a major than a regional in that case.

BeatNavy
08-08-2018, 11:11 AM
Why do you want to fly in the army?

sherpster
08-08-2018, 11:27 AM
Airline flying is boring. I feel sorry for guys who started in their 20ís and have 30+ years of that to contend with. Flying in the army is fun and will give you life long memories. Do it in the national guard and you can do both!

Gundriver64
08-08-2018, 01:16 PM
Take the hitch. There's more to life than money. Believe it or not, there was a time when metrics of success included other things besides the bank account.

If you want to fly helicopters, then go Army. If you want to fly as a military aviator (rotary-wing aside) then fly AFR.

Cheers,
G

Airbum
08-08-2018, 02:21 PM
Take the hitch. There's more to life than money. Believe it or not, there was a time when metrics of success included other things besides the bank account.

If you want to fly helicopters, then go Army. If you want to fly as a military aviator (rotary-wing aside) then fly AFR.

Cheers,
G

A lot to be said for this, Check out the Guard as it's awesome. Remember half or better of what you make goes to the EX!

ArmyRWP2018
08-08-2018, 02:40 PM
Go in as a Warrant Officer only if you want to fly more than PowerPoint, Excel, and a desk!

Taco280AI
08-08-2018, 02:42 PM
It can be great, or embrace the suck. What kind of flying do you want? Choose the mission... beware, while it can be great the Army is the best at sucking the fun out of anything. That said, 60 degree banks and 145 knots at 30 feet can be a good time - when you actually get to do it.

kevbo
08-08-2018, 04:56 PM
How about finding a good job and buying an akro plane.

Excargodog
08-08-2018, 07:32 PM
Am I crazy for wanting to go to the Army??

Yes.
Filler

Fastest145
08-08-2018, 08:28 PM
First and foremost, thank you all for your opinion as itís worth a lot as I have very little knowledge about how military aviation works.

Iím at one of those regionals where I have a guaranteed flow to american in 8 or so years. Im 22 and arenít even old enough to apply to any majors yet. My long term goal is airlines but I want to try out the whole military thing before flying for American +40 years.

Gundriver64
08-09-2018, 02:00 AM
First and foremost, thank you all for your opinion as itís worth a lot as I have very little knowledge about how military aviation works.

Iím at one of those regionals where I have a guaranteed flow to american in 8 or so years. Im 22 and arenít even old enough to apply to any majors yet. My long term goal is airlines but I want to try out the whole military thing before flying for American +40 years.

At your age I would jump all over the Guard or Reserve. You'll look back on it 20-30 years from now and realize it was one of the best things you did in life (accounting for the good, bad, and the ugly of the military). If you have an interest in flying UH60s, Chinooks, or C-12s, in the Army Reserves PM me. I was the Career Manager for Reserve Aviation in a past stint. I can put you in touch with my successor.

Airbum
08-09-2018, 04:29 AM
at your age with flow!? Go for it. I would heavily consider going in the Army Guard as a WO, way more flying and much less BS

sherpster
08-09-2018, 05:09 AM
Warrant all the way!

rickair7777
08-09-2018, 06:51 AM
at your age with flow!? Go for it. I would heavily consider going in the Army Guard as a WO, way more flying and much less BS

I would do some research to verify that your flow rights would also be USERRA protected. I'm certain it *should* be, but it's possible nobody has "pushed to test" on that yet.

Although if you're going guard/reserves, you'd probably be back from initial training/seasoning before you were flow eligible anyway.

rickair7777
08-09-2018, 06:57 AM
Yes.
Filler

Maybe not if he has AA flow. I was never in the army, but did plenty of training and schools with them back in the day. There was certainly a suck factor, but I'd still do it all over again. I wouldn't trade those experiences for more time hanging out in a coffee shop, or on a Navy ship, or whatever else I might have been doing.

SQUAWK3274
08-09-2018, 07:06 AM
"Living a purpose-driven life is the foundation of fulfillment and happiness. Find your purpose and pursue it relentlessly."

- Former Navy Seal, Brent Gleeson

Go for it.

hydrostream
08-09-2018, 07:55 AM
I have a lot of pride in my Army time. I would absolutely recommend it to anyone that has a burning desire to serve their country, with some caveats.

I have seen pilots struggle with the realities of Army Aviation. The culture is not for everyone and if you have expectations that aren't lived up to you need to be able to accept it and move on with a good attitude. You'll be stuck for 8 years either way, so don't be "that guy."

Acknowledge the fact that it's not the swoopy hero-world you read about in books. It's very gritty, it's very unprofessional at times, and even the most advanced aircraft in the Army will lose their luster once you're sitting in them day after day.

Head over to armyaircrews.com and spend some time reading through the names and what happened. Chances are high you will know people on that website by the end of your career. You may even be in the flight when they go down. God forbid, you may end up with your name on there.

All that said, it's awesome. Flying low, hiding in trees, reconnaissance, shooting, managing a flight, calling artillery, commanding an aircraft with United States Army written on the side, dealing with complex airspace, emergencies, etc. It's incredibly rewarding and you will be a better aviator because of your experience there.

hvydvr
08-09-2018, 08:08 AM
Guard or Reserve will give you a measure of control/stability that you will most likely not have on active duty. Iíd recommend those options.

Excargodog
08-09-2018, 08:09 AM
Maybe not if he has AA flow. I was never in the army, but did plenty of training and schools with them back in the day. There was certainly a suck factor, but I'd still do it all over again. I wouldn't trade those experiences for more time hanging out in a coffee shop, or on a Navy ship, or whatever else I might have been doing.

I too was in the military, but the Army is a whole different magnitude of suck.

Sliceback
08-09-2018, 09:22 AM
First and foremost, thank you all for your opinion as it’s worth a lot as I have very little knowledge about how military aviation works.

I’m at one of those regionals where I have a guaranteed flow to american in 8 or so years. Im 22 and aren’t even old enough to apply to any majors yet. My long term goal is airlines but I want to try out the whole military thing before flying for American +40 years.

Figure out if you want to fly fighter or heavies and join an ANG unit. It's not a guaranteed process but already being at a regional means you have 1500+ hrs. That should help. Talk to any ANG unit that has aircraft and they can help set you up for the tests and background check.

Definitely chase helos if you're interested but talking with guys over the years the ANG, often due to funding, seems to be a lot easier. Fighters take a fair amount of commitment. I've been surprised at how little reservists have to fly in heavy units.

goinaround
08-09-2018, 01:37 PM
Having served time and deployed with as a member of both Army and Air National Guard units.....I would highly encourage looking at the Air side. Would you rather sleep in a Hilton on the beach.....or a dug fighting position? 12 month deployments......or two?

Airbum
08-16-2018, 10:22 PM
I just read a post where someone appears annoyed by fighter pilots showing pride in their military experience. It made me think about your post and if you should chase some challenges.

Do some interesting flying and you won't end up posting on forums complaining about others who flew faster, farther, lower, slower, and had lived a bit on the edge!

Big Windy
08-20-2018, 11:18 PM
Having served time and deployed with as a member of both Army and Air National Guard units.....I would highly encourage looking at the Air side. Would you rather sleep in a Hilton on the beach.....or a dug fighting position? 12 month deployments......or two?


I've never slept in a dug-in fighting position as an Army aviator, but this guy gets it. If I could do it all over again, I'd go Air Force in a heartbeat.

Gundriver64
08-21-2018, 03:34 AM
I've never slept in a dug-in fighting position as an Army aviator, but this guy gets it. If I could do it all over again, I'd go Air Force in a heartbeat.

Ohhhhh! I remember sleeping in a fighting position that me and my fellow aviation types dug ourselves. There were no FOBs in Desert Storm. :eek: Damn I'm old!

new guy
09-23-2018, 08:14 PM
Just for a heads up regarding military (all services) flying:

I fly RW for the army and routinely speak/work with navy re, air force fw, and marine death trap/ osprey pilots.

All services are in a bad way right now for pilots and if you come in, you will be shocked (in a bad way.) I love what I do, I'd still make the same decision, but that's because I wanted to serve since I was 11. Between the shortages which has increased workload to cover down and social experiments that the military has become (if we need 15 briefs a month to not sexually assault our own service members, much less anyone else then MAYBE we should re-evaluate who we let wear the uniform in the first place) I know many a pilot who has jumped ship. I have peers they are at 14-17 years of service that are willing to walk away from a lifetime of retirement because they're that miserable.

Know what you're doing and why you're doing it. If you still want to pursue it, let me know. It's cheesy to quote movies, but a tank scene in Fury really does capture the military sometimes. In the middle of a gigantic ****show, with chaos and horror all around, all I can think is "best job I ever had."

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

khergan
10-09-2018, 08:06 PM
Current Army aviation culture is interesting....

RW guys can either be heavily utilized, or barely at all, depending on whether you do Guard or Reserve. As I'm not a Guard/Reserve aviator, I'll let those guys give you accurate information.

Active duty side is hemorrhaging pilots right now to the airlines. For a RW aviator, you can expect to be deep into training for a fight with another "near peer" adversary. RW aviation units get rode hard and put away wet. Because they are always in extremely high demand, they tend to get burnt out quickly. Between field exercises (1wk-4wks), gunnery and CTC rotations, they work long hours and are often away from home. CTC rotations are big scenario-type events that take about 4-5 weeks to complete in either the desert wasteland of Barstow, CA or the swamp of Fort Polk, LA. In addition to that, either you'll be on the patch chart to deploy for 6m-1year, depending on where you go. You could end up flying around Europe doing training missions, or in Korea. You could also end up in Afghanistan or Iraq doing real stuff. The general attitude among warrant officers in RW land right now is that the pay and benefits do not justify the ridiculous workload. You will also get to do a ton of stuff that has nothing to do with flying, staff jobs, and lots of awful mandatory training.

As for FW, it's marginally better. We tend to deploy more because of the ISR (intelligence gathering) mission being in demand world-wide. These deployments tend to be 3-6 months depending on where you go, and happen frequently. You'll get to skip out on the field time and CTC stuff, but make up for it in increased frequency of deployments all over the world. The same non-flying annoyances exist in the form of staff work, additional duties and mandatory training that has nothing to do with your job as an aviator.

It's a mixed bag. If you really have a passion for being an Army aviator and love the nature of the mission, you could have a great time. The fact of the matter is that for the cool flying stuff you get to do, 90% of your time will be spent doing other mind-numbing tasks. The bureaucracy is thick, and the Army likes to place tons of other requirements on us that aren't fun or fulfilling to do. Another thing to take into consideration is the movement. Expect to move every 3-4 years as a warrant officer, 2-3 years as an officer. You get a "wish list" but honestly it's up to the needs of the Army. You may find yourself in BFE Louisiana, El Paso TX or in upstate New York. You may get back-to-back crappy assignments in places you don't want to be. It will take a toll on your family if you have one with constant absences and moves. When you are home, you aren't really "home", because you could go to the field at a moments notice for a month, or spend 12 hour days doing other taskings that don't relate to flying. If you want to do the job, have a passion for service and be willing to submit to all the other stuff that comes along with being an Army aviator.

beis77
10-20-2018, 05:45 AM
Hi guys, Im currently an FO at a regional. Im seriously thinking about taking a LOA to go to the army to fly helo's.

Is this a bad idea????

I know all the army guys leave the army for the airlines but I just think I would be a great experience and not as boring as fling from MIA to CLE.

Is it a bad idea? As others have said, it depends on what you want to do long term. To be clear though, flying helos for any service isnít going to help you if your aspire to be an airline pilot. If anything, it will simply hold you back, as it will take you longer to earn the fixed wing TT and PIC that the majors are looking for. Plus, if you go Army, youíll be contending with longer deployments (12 months a pop). If youíre looking at military flying in general, then I strongly recommend air national guard, Air Force Reserve or Navy reserve, as the fixed wing time youíll earn is more compatible with what the majors are looking for. Fly fixed wing, the experience will help your App and you wonít be deployed as long (unless you fly fixed wing in the Army). A typical Air Force deployment for a flier is ~4 months (can be split in half down to two) vice 12 month deployments in the Army. Your first deployment will be exciting, but they get old quick...

Are there any Guard or Reserve units near where you live that fly something youíd like to fly? Youíll want to live near your unit.

rickair7777
10-20-2018, 07:03 AM
You cannot join the Navy or USMC reserve to fly unless you're already a winged military pilot.