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View Full Version : Average Calendar Day done deal


aa73
08-08-2018, 02:52 PM
Fellow pilots:

We are pleased to announce that the enhanced trip and duty rigs will be implemented for the November 2018 contractual month – two months earlier than required by LOA 18-002. These new, industry-leading trip and duty rigs match what is in place at Delta but with the added benefit of a “Sit-Time” Rig, which Delta does not have. Review the table below for a detailed comparison.

What exactly is changing?

“G” Time Rig will now be evaluated on a Calendar Day instead of a Duty Period basis. In addition, the Average Daily Guarantee will increase to 5 hours and 15 minutes (5:15) from the current 5 hours and 10 minutes (5:10).
“E” Time Rig will now guarantee the higher rate of 1 minute for each 1 and a half minutes (1:1.5) on duty between the nighttime hours of 2200 and 0559. Duty during all other hours will continue to pay 1 minute for every 2 minutes (1:2). Duty with a sign-in time after 2200 and which ends after 0359 will receive 1 minute for each 1 and a half minutes (1:1.5) for the entire duty period.
Duty Period Minimum is changed from 3 to 2 hours.
When will these enhanced trip and duty rigs become effective?

Beginning with the contractual month of November 2018, all pairings that originate in November will be constructed with the new trip and duty rigs. In other words, pairings that start on or after November 1, 2018 will be paid based on the new rigs.
All fly-through (carry-in) pairings that originate in the month of October will be constructed and paid based on the current Rigs.
Together, along with the hard work of dedicated colleagues across the airline, we were able to deliver this contractual enhancement earlier than planned thanks to a collaborative effort by the Company and APA.


Cheddar
08-08-2018, 03:13 PM
That took very little negotiating capital. We need the hard press in Section 6. They are floundering in training and hiring which affects schedules.


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mainlineAF
08-08-2018, 05:21 PM
I’m lol’ing at all the guys who said it’d never be implemented. “It’s cheaper for them to pay the fine!” lolz


GuardPolice
08-08-2018, 05:24 PM
What is a “sit-time” rig? I don’t see it in the info above?

seafeye
08-08-2018, 05:43 PM
So the question is:
Will the traditional redeye trips continue to exist or will we see them imbedded in 4 day trips?

Covfefe
08-08-2018, 05:53 PM
What is a “sit-time” rig? I don’t see it in the info above?


You get paid for 50% of the sit time beyond 2hrs. 3hr sit = 30m pay. Scheduled sit time only.

LIOG41
08-08-2018, 07:34 PM
That took very little negotiating capital. We need the hard press in Section 6. They are floundering in training and hiring which affects schedules.


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Expand on your floundering comment please...just curious.

Floobs
08-08-2018, 08:55 PM
Fellow pilots:

We are pleased to announce that the enhanced trip and duty rigs will be implemented for the November 2018 contractual month – two months earlier than required by LOA 18-002. These new, industry-leading trip and duty rigs match what is in place at Delta but with the added benefit of a “Sit-Time” Rig, which Delta does not have. Review the table below for a detailed comparison.

What exactly is changing?

“G” Time Rig will now be evaluated on a Calendar Day instead of a Duty Period basis. In addition, the Average Daily Guarantee will increase to 5 hours and 15 minutes (5:15) from the current 5 hours and 10 minutes (5:10).
“E” Time Rig will now guarantee the higher rate of 1 minute for each 1 and a half minutes (1:1.5) on duty between the nighttime hours of 2200 and 0559. Duty during all other hours will continue to pay 1 minute for every 2 minutes (1:2). Duty with a sign-in time after 2200 and which ends after 0359 will receive 1 minute for each 1 and a half minutes (1:1.5) for the entire duty period.
Duty Period Minimum is changed from 3 to 2 hours.
When will these enhanced trip and duty rigs become effective?

Beginning with the contractual month of November 2018, all pairings that originate in November will be constructed with the new trip and duty rigs. In other words, pairings that start on or after November 1, 2018 will be paid based on the new rigs.
All fly-through (carry-in) pairings that originate in the month of October will be constructed and paid based on the current Rigs.
Together, along with the hard work of dedicated colleagues across the airline, we were able to deliver this contractual enhancement earlier than planned thanks to a collaborative effort by the Company and APA.

Someone told me the out and back red-eyes are not covered by this. Is that true?

Cheddar
08-08-2018, 09:08 PM
Expand on your floundering comment please...just curious.



We are way behind on the training power curve. Spent a month doing a transition course and talked with several instructors, Sim Ps and CKA about how far behind we are in light of retirements and the fact that we are woefully understaffed in CKA (and line pilots). The training department is shuffling instructors to meet demand on the 737 and 320, robbing from other fleets. Then they hire, and reshuffle the deck chairs. This example is just a microcosm of the bigger philosophical dilemma facing the company.

Our cancellations due to crew staffing are on the rise and we are behind every other legacy in our aircraft to crew ratio and it’s not because we do it better. We are about to lead the industry in retirements, and we are already behind with the schoolhouse. The adage is Every group 4 CA that retires cause 6-7 training events. That is for a zero growth scenario. That doesn’t take into account the training cycles that a displaced E190/S80/767 CA or FO make or the bid to bid decisions of the 14600 pilots on property. We are building more room for more sims, and our stall series upgrades are almost done, but the company needs relief wrt training. That’s going to cost them in sec 6, and it should be beneficial for us in their shortsightedness.

Delta and UAL have been hiring over 1000 a year in some years to prevent manning issues. We haven’t because of the huge undertaking of the merger, and management’s constant search for synergies to appear to take control of the costs. These cost advantages haven’t materialized because of our management’s zero tolerance for any part of the operation not to run on the thinnest of margins philosophy has failed, they just can’t believe it or admit it yet. The margin for error is unrealistic and too tight.

This management team has allowed incompetence and pettiness to rule the day wrt crew staffing and the short sighted crew scheduling tactics. We have pbs to reduce the reserve insurance needed to fill the daily schedule, but due to this teams inability to use a ‘premium’ carrot vice the ‘reassignment’ stick, their system is breaking. I have personally witnessed a 31xxx sequence develop real time and affect first hand 3 different FO re-assignments, two DH’s removing paying pax from oversold sequences when all they had to do was offer PM. I was called for the trip in MU and declined waiting for PM as there were no reserves. It went back to tracking and then went to another reserve in another base, causing DHs. Again, they somehow managed to burn 3 FO’s with cascading reserve callouts and reassignments that required DHs versus offering premium or OG. UFB. This happens everyday. All. The. Time. The last two weeks the system fell apart and there was premium if you were available. Our cancellations skyrocketed and crews were reassigned, timed out and everything went to crap NOT because of IROPS, but because there is no relief valve in the system.

They run the airline so thin wrt crewing that they are actually breaking their own schedules everyday in perfect conditions! IROPS are another catastrophe...

As someone much smarter than me said:

“Its really astounding. Who knew that management was so incompetent that PBS was going to be a tremendous jobs creator...”

Now you bring in ACD, and it’s surprise early (before Jan) implementation and all of the unknowns. While I take the view that the company is seeing it can attain more synergies with some creative and productive scheduling (tag trips on all-nighters, 5 day trips with 2/3 red eyes, multi hub trips to recover soft time, etc) your going to see the system get even tighter. And fall harder. I was always swung to the “yes for ACD” crowd not only because it fixes some really crappy sequences but because we get to experiment with it before section 6. The company will ask for relief in things that may actually benefit us just as much, and we will make them pay double for that - the same with training in many respects.

Anyway, sorry for the ramblings - my hope is that with the layoffs and early buyouts in the manager/director level, some of this will change, but probably not. This is a philosophy issue, and while it sucks we can greatly benefit from it in sec 6. They need relief, I guess we’ll find out what it’s worth.



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Cheddar
08-08-2018, 09:14 PM
Someone told me the out and back red-eyes are not covered by this. Is that true?



Not true unless they return before 0159 or start after 0200...

The all night turns were one duty period, they are now two ‘days’ paying ACD of 5:15 and maybe the 1:1.5 E rig. They will disappear into 3-4 day trips. The only time you might see them is in a broken 31xxx sequence paying 10:30. If that goes to PM... $$$$$


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TransWorld
08-08-2018, 10:23 PM
Here are the latest comparisons between the 3 legacies:

Pilots per plane:
American 15.0
Delta 15.1
United 17.0

Forecast hires 2018 (per APC):
American 900
Delta 1200
United 450?

Actual hires 2017:
American 637
Delta 1082
United 428

Hiring historical:
https://fapa.aero/hiringhistory.asp

Mandatory retirement 2018, 2019
American 528, 637
Delta 353, 448
United 398, 411

Cheddar
08-09-2018, 05:01 AM
TW:

Not sure where you are getting your info, this is current as of Aug 18:

aircraft/total active pilots - crew ratio
———————————————
AA - 951/14599 - 15.35
DAL - 875/14,600 - 16.68
UAL - 730/12,517 - 17.14

Of course this is general, and not a fleet specific breakdown, but you get the gist and point remains the same. AAL runs a much leaner ship with no give for natural system flexibility. The margin for error in the scheduling is razor thin with no ‘insurance’ and although we have almost 30-40% more middle management than other legacies/majors, I’d say we have half the talent. DAL runs a leaner ship than say UAL, but they hand out premium at a much higher rate than AA, ensuring a smoother operation with flexibility for the natural day to day disruption. AA is way behind on both crew staffing flexibility and management culture. We are really screwed if things don’t change!

The company can’t afford a long, drawn out sec 6 with natural and targeted disruptions (and no, I’m not advocating for any) so they need to change their stick first “culture” all across the board if we are to catch up to DAL revenues. We can’t make money if we can’t operate a regular schedule without serious issues.


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TransWorld
08-09-2018, 05:18 AM
Thanks for the info. Delta aircraft on APC needs significant updates, then. They show 925 instead of 875.

Cheddar
08-09-2018, 05:35 AM
APC is good for a snapshot, but they’re a lot like Wikipedia, only as good as the data input.


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TransWorld
08-09-2018, 06:18 AM
APC is good for a snapshot, but they’re a lot like Wikipedia, only as good as the data input.

Agreed. But most airline counts are much closer to reality. AA is off by the last few months new a/c receipts and some mad dog retirements. But the overall count is pretty close.:D

Dolphinflyer
08-09-2018, 07:25 AM
Recent AA Crew Schedule success in avoiding Premium (1.5 hourly rate).

Instead of going to straight Premium on a 3-day and paid 27 hours of pay, they broke it up into 4 different trips.

Instead of paying 27 hours, they ended up paying 47 hours total, but the Director Of Crew Scheduling can say in the morning meeting that she avoided paying Premium.

Cheddar
08-09-2018, 08:04 AM
Recent AA Crew Schedule success in avoiding Premium (1.5 hourly rate).



Instead of going to straight Premium on a 3-day and paid 27 hours of pay, they broke it up into 4 different trips.



Instead of paying 27 hours, they ended up paying 47 hours total, but the Director Of Crew Scheduling can say in the morning meeting that she avoided paying Premium.



Exactly this. And yet we rob Peter to pay Paul and wonder why the whole thing falls apart. These people have literally perfected tripping over $20 to pick up a dime... UFB


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FlyyGuyy
08-09-2018, 08:04 AM
Recent AA Crew Schedule success in avoiding Premium (1.5 hourly rate).

Instead of going to straight Premium on a 3-day and paid 27 hours of pay, they broke it up into 4 different trips.

Instead of paying 27 hours, they ended up paying 47 hours total, but the Director Of Crew Scheduling can say in the morning meeting that she avoided paying Premium.

jeeze, this sounds like PSA. Just finished a trip that on the captains side was covered as one trip, but broken up into 6 different pairings on the FO side. Burning 4 reserves. only two legs were picked up at "premium". absolutely bizarre.

meyers9163
08-09-2018, 10:11 AM
So the question is:
Will the traditional redeye trips continue to exist or will we see them imbedded in 4 day trips?

It’s already happening. Many four days end with a red eye home. Now hopefully instead of 18-19 hours they’ll pay the full rig. However the company has already made the adjustments. Don’t really see 3 days and gone for less then 36 hours for 15:45 pay happening. They will optimize it and rightfully so. However if these trips that end with a red eye now pay a little more that’s a nice addition. However they’ve already made steps to not do 1 leg out 1 leg back red eyes at 15:45. Most are now 2-3 legs out 1 leg back.

Buzzlightyear
08-09-2018, 11:28 AM
Not true unless they return before 0159 or start after 0200...

The all night turns were one duty period, they are now two ‘days’ paying ACD of 5:15 and maybe the 1:1.5 E rig. They will disappear into 3-4 day trips. The only time you might see them is in a broken 31xxx sequence paying 10:30. If that goes to PM... $$$$$


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Is there a source for this info or is this speculation?

Saabs
08-09-2018, 11:40 AM
I’m lol’ing at all the guys who said it’d never be implemented. “It’s cheaper for them to pay the fine!” lolz

Does this help your RJ?

Saabs
08-09-2018, 11:45 AM
Not true unless they return before 0159 or start after 0200...

The all night turns were one duty period, they are now two ‘days’ paying ACD of 5:15 and maybe the 1:1.5 E rig. They will disappear into 3-4 day trips. The only time you might see them is in a broken 31xxx sequence paying 10:30. If that goes to PM... $$$$$


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Aren’t they just one? And that rig is only if they sign in after 2200?

mainlineAF
08-09-2018, 11:52 AM
Does this help your RJ?



I’m too senior to fly those peasant slash trips.

Cheddar
08-09-2018, 01:59 PM
Is there a source for this info or is this speculation?



It’s in the AIP. Not sure what else you’re asking.

Buzzlightyear
08-09-2018, 02:19 PM
Your response seemed like an opinion. The agreement with the company seemed light on details and what you provided I hadn’t seen before. For instance overnight turns weren’t specifically addressed in the agreement language. The little official communication we got on this seemed to be a sales job by our base reps. There’s still a lot of unknowns because we haven’t seen the sequences, supposed extra days off or additional pay yet. That’s why I asked.

Cheddar
08-09-2018, 03:17 PM
Buzz,

The all night turns are one duty period, and the AIP specifically states that we are going away from duty periods to ‘days’ in consideration to pay. These days are from 0200-0159, so therefore any duty period that spans these days are paid an average of 5:15. So the DFW-LAS turn that duties in at 2250 and ends at 0515 now pays 10:30 per the AIP. The company won’t do that, so I am speculating that they will incorporate these sequences in trips that are longer than two days.

Also, other trips (WB rockets from MIA/DFW to SA specifically that pay 11 to 14 hours will now all pay 15:45 and LAX/PHX - Hawaii) will see better pay for the duty. These are also two duty periods but barely span three ‘days’ per the AIP (day one 2250 duty in with a return of 0600 day three in the South American rockets example).

Hope these examples help.


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