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airscout
08-09-2018, 09:23 AM
Does AWAC have long call reserve? Will it in the new contract? How does it work? What are the short call rules? If you're MKE based do you do out and backs out of MKE or does everything go through ORD? Can I still get MKE right away with this new CAE base opening? What sort of improvements can be expected on the new contract? I have a CL-65 type. When is that 8K for previous experience paid out? I also have all the time required to upgrade... my understanding is that would be at least a year in MKE?


Day4mx
08-09-2018, 09:52 AM
Does AWAC have long call reserve? Will it in the new contract? How does it work? What are the short call rules? If you're MKE based do you do out and backs out of MKE or does everything go through ORD? Can I still get MKE right away with this new CAE base opening? What sort of improvements can be expected on the new contract? I have a CL-65 type. When is that 8K for previous experience paid out? I also have all the time required to upgrade... my understanding is that would be at least a year in MKE?

No.
What new contract?
Mke is almost primarily 4 day trips through ord and iad.
Youll get mke out of training.
What new contract?
I have a cl65 type as well.
No idea about bonuses.
Youll upgrade asap in mke.

airscout
08-09-2018, 06:10 PM
No.
What new contract?
Mke is almost primarily 4 day trips through ord and iad.
Youll get mke out of training.
What new contract?
I have a cl65 type as well.
No idea about bonuses.
Youll upgrade asap in mke.

Ok, I guess I've been a little out of the loop lately. So, reading through other posts it sounds like the TA that was just voted down had "raises" that didn't even keep up with inflation. I haven't found anything on what sort of reserve rules/QOL stuff was in the TA. No improvements on that? I thought maybe another TA would have been quickly put together, thus avoiding a strike, and people would have some idea what was in the new TA, but I gather there are no negotiations going on for a new TA? Sounds like some sort of strange limbo where nobody has a clue what the next contract will look like.

As far as current bonuses I read 5K in first check, 26K after OE, but then it also says 8K for those for previous airline experience but isn't clear about when that is paid.

When you say MKE captain upgrade "asap" does that mean right away while in ground school or what. I understand things are always in a state of flux but perhaps a window in terms of months, like 0-6 months, 6-12 months or something like that.

Is there any talk of strike yet or what's the plan from here after the last TA was voted down? Has ALPA given any sort of time frame on that? Has the mediator given any indication of when you'll be released?

What I'm looking for is some sort of educated guess of what the next contract will look like. I see things about pay, but not much else. If it looks like Air Wisconsin will offer good work rules/schedules/QOL I'd consider working there. If that's stuff that doesn't even come up in what the next TA/contract should be then I'll look elsewhere. For me it's important because I know from past experience that quickly becoming a captain also means a long time on reserve and bottom line holder. Especially nowadays with so many senior FOs trickling through upgrade. A weak contract and bad scheduling rules make that a miserable experience. I wouldn't mind being a bottom captain however with strong reserve language, long call, being able to bid RAP times, good monthly days off, etc.

Any insight on that stuff would be appreciated.

Thanks!


nuball5
08-10-2018, 03:39 AM
Ok, I guess I've been a little out of the loop lately. So, reading through other posts it sounds like the TA that was just voted down had "raises" that didn't even keep up with inflation. I haven't found anything on what sort of reserve rules/QOL stuff was in the TA. No improvements on that? I thought maybe another TA would have been quickly put together, thus avoiding a strike, and people would have some idea what was in the new TA, but I gather there are no negotiations going on for a new TA? Sounds like some sort of strange limbo where nobody has a clue what the next contract will look like.

As far as current bonuses I read 5K in first check, 26K after OE, but then it also says 8K for those for previous airline experience but isn't clear about when that is paid.

When you say MKE captain upgrade "asap" does that mean right away while in ground school or what. I understand things are always in a state of flux but perhaps a window in terms of months, like 0-6 months, 6-12 months or something like that.

Is there any talk of strike yet or what's the plan from here after the last TA was voted down? Has ALPA given any sort of time frame on that? Has the mediator given any indication of when you'll be released?

What I'm looking for is some sort of educated guess of what the next contract will look like. I see things about pay, but not much else. If it looks like Air Wisconsin will offer good work rules/schedules/QOL I'd consider working there. If that's stuff that doesn't even come up in what the next TA/contract should be then I'll look elsewhere. For me it's important because I know from past experience that quickly becoming a captain also means a long time on reserve and bottom line holder. Especially nowadays with so many senior FOs trickling through upgrade. A weak contract and bad scheduling rules make that a miserable experience. I wouldn't mind being a bottom captain however with strong reserve language, long call, being able to bid RAP times, good monthly days off, etc.

Any insight on that stuff would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I no longer work there but it took 3 years to achieve another TA, after the one in 2015 was voted down. Maybe TA3 will be shorter since the last vote was about 50/50. There won't be any strike or even a vote to strike when about half the pilot group voted yes to TA2.

idlethrust
08-10-2018, 10:51 AM
Ok, I guess I've been a little out of the loop lately. So, reading through other posts it sounds like the TA that was just voted down had "raises" that didn't even keep up with inflation. I haven't found anything on what sort of reserve rules/QOL stuff was in the TA. No improvements on that? I thought maybe another TA would have been quickly put together, thus avoiding a strike, and people would have some idea what was in the new TA, but I gather there are no negotiations going on for a new TA? Sounds like some sort of strange limbo where nobody has a clue what the next contract will look like.

As far as current bonuses I read 5K in first check, 26K after OE, but then it also says 8K for those for previous airline experience but isn't clear about when that is paid.

When you say MKE captain upgrade "asap" does that mean right away while in ground school or what. I understand things are always in a state of flux but perhaps a window in terms of months, like 0-6 months, 6-12 months or something like that.

Is there any talk of strike yet or what's the plan from here after the last TA was voted down? Has ALPA given any sort of time frame on that? Has the mediator given any indication of when you'll be released?

What I'm looking for is some sort of educated guess of what the next contract will look like. I see things about pay, but not much else. If it looks like Air Wisconsin will offer good work rules/schedules/QOL I'd consider working there. If that's stuff that doesn't even come up in what the next TA/contract should be then I'll look elsewhere. For me it's important because I know from past experience that quickly becoming a captain also means a long time on reserve and bottom line holder. Especially nowadays with so many senior FOs trickling through upgrade. A weak contract and bad scheduling rules make that a miserable experience. I wouldn't mind being a bottom captain however with strong reserve language, long call, being able to bid RAP times, good monthly days off, etc.

Any insight on that stuff would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Seek employment elsewhere is my advice
Lots of options nowadays

Day4mx
08-10-2018, 06:27 PM
Seek employment elsewhere is my advice
Lots of options nowadays

Why wouldnt you wanna take advantage of our 6 on 1 off schedules with lines not commutable either end ?!

airscout
08-10-2018, 07:17 PM
Why wouldnt you wanna take advantage of our 6 on 1 off schedules with lines not commutable either end ?!

Personally I'll never commute (fly to work) for any job again (unless it's positive space), which is the reason I'd consider AWAC under that right conditions. I can drive to MKE. When Frontier Express was there I drove back and forth to MKE. At that time I had a line with 12 days off every month. Not great by any means, but doable until they closed MKE down and RAH got rid of Frontier. I actually don't mind getting done late because afternoon traffic on that 894 construction (still going on after all these years) sucks! Not a big fan of early shows though. Anyway, for me it's not so much the time reporting and finishing as how hard I'll be used and abused. For example, I was a DEC at G7. When the company followed the rules of LCR it wasn't so bad. Every other stretch of LCR days I wouldn't be used and sat at home (12 hour call out). But when the company started dumping open time into LCR lines the month prior (by contract it was supposed to sit in open time pot until 24 hours prior) then every single reserve day you were be used with no respite. To make matters worse reserve captains started to constantly be assigned right seat flying in LCR stretches the month prior. This is just one example at one of the airlines I worked at. If the contract or the union is weak then you are constantly getting abused, especially when short staffed. Being a bottom feeding captain while more senior FOs upgrade and keep bumping you down makes the abuse last longer and be more chronic. This is what I worry about. RESERVE RULES. SCHEDULING. DAYS OFF. JUNIOR MANNING. Stuff like that. Sounds in general that AWAC isn't very good about stuff like that and noone has heard of any improvements on the way, so ja, I will look elsewhere because I don't think being able to drive to work is going to make up for these other deficiencies.

Cessnaflyer1213
08-14-2018, 05:56 AM
Personally I'll never commute (fly to work) for any job again (unless it's positive space), which is the reason I'd consider AWAC under that right conditions. I can drive to MKE. When Frontier Express was there I drove back and forth to MKE. At that time I had a line with 12 days off every month. Not great by any means, but doable until they closed MKE down and RAH got rid of Frontier. I actually don't mind getting done late because afternoon traffic on that 894 construction (still going on after all these years) sucks! Not a big fan of early shows though. Anyway, for me it's not so much the time reporting and finishing as how hard I'll be used and abused. For example, I was a DEC at G7. When the company followed the rules of LCR it wasn't so bad. Every other stretch of LCR days I wouldn't be used and sat at home (12 hour call out). But when the company started dumping open time into LCR lines the month prior (by contract it was supposed to sit in open time pot until 24 hours prior) then every single reserve day you were be used with no respite. To make matters worse reserve captains started to constantly be assigned right seat flying in LCR stretches the month prior. This is just one example at one of the airlines I worked at. If the contract or the union is weak then you are constantly getting abused, especially when short staffed. Being a bottom feeding captain while more senior FOs upgrade and keep bumping you down makes the abuse last longer and be more chronic. This is what I worry about. RESERVE RULES. SCHEDULING. DAYS OFF. JUNIOR MANNING. Stuff like that. Sounds in general that AWAC isn't very good about stuff like that and noone has heard of any improvements on the way, so ja, I will look elsewhere because I don't think being able to drive to work is going to make up for these other deficiencies.

Alright, you seem to have run into a bitter responder that no longer works at ZW. There are several of them out here. I'll try to be a little more helpful. The previous responses are correct in that there is not a current contract agreement and that it probably won't go anywhere substantial before 2019. If you are looking for the PERFECT contract that offers the best reserve rules, most days off, never Junior manned, and top hourly .... good luck. There is no talk of mediation at the moment (but possibly in the future) and definitely no strike. Both sides are trying to figure out how to proceed at the moment.

The company was willing to put annual bonuses into a contract, but only small percentage raises as a hedge against an economic downturn. The senior guys don't like the recruiting bonuses because they were never offered them when they were hired, so no contract bonuses for new pilots outside of the company's new hire incentives which are nothing to sneeze at anyway.

As of yesterday, all new hires have been assigned to CAE to fill a brand new base there. Many veterans have also been displaced with as much as 15 years. That, as you can imagine, has created a whole new level of hate and discontent. I heard from 1 CA that this was his 11th displacement in 11 years. MKE and CAE are now the Junior bases, so if you want MKE out of training chances are still fairly good. There is no long call reserve being used in the current contract.

I drive a little over an hour to MKE. I just finished 2 1/2 months on reserve and am a line holder this month. I flew almost everyday of my reserve period. They typically called me between 6-7p the night before and told me when to report. The 4:45a show is a little rough ... Because everyone was complaining about constant Junior manning, the company slowed down to catch a breath the last 45 days or so. The FO's quit being junior manned and even sat at home on reserve days. They are still short of Captains at the moment and they are still being Junior manned regularly. Indications are that flying will pick up again once the new CAE base is in operation. More Junior mans ahead for everyone ....

As far as bonus moneys, you are correct that they offer the extra 8k for CL-65 type. You get the first 5k basically on your first check. The 26k & 8k don't get paid until after successful completion of training or IOE. (After taxes, the 26k was only 16k and I dialed up my exemptions all the way.) Now for the fine print ... Taking the bonuses locks you into a 24 month committment to AW. Odds are good that MKE will be a base at least that long. The company has been advertising 18-24 month upgrades, but did just have 1 person do it in 12 months due to many senior FO's bypassing because they didn't want to be in MKE. Previous 121 & CL-65 would probably make you a candidate for the 12 month option.

With the looming pilot shortage, used & abused is becoming the norm regardless of the company. MKE has early starts and late finishes, that's all there is too it. But ... you can drive there. At least for a while. At some point in the future, MKE will be closed as the market and company moves and I ( and others) will become commuters begging for jumpseats to work. It's inevitable. MKE will be a base for AW for the next 3-4 years ... probably. After that????? That part about never commuting again ... you might need to reconsider your position. Again, if that's your goal ... good luck.

It's a good group of people, but come in with your eyes open. Make the best of it. Chances are you'll work more than you might want but where else are you going to get a MKE base? Are there other companies out there looking for help? Absolutely ... at the moment you can basically pick what you want. I picked AW, despite some of the negatives, for mostly positive reasons. Feel free to PM with more direct questions.

airscout
08-14-2018, 12:16 PM
Alright, you seem to have run into a bitter responder that no longer works at ZW. There are several of them out here. I'll try to be a little more helpful. The previous responses are correct in that there is not a current contract agreement and that it probably won't go anywhere substantial before 2019. If you are looking for the PERFECT contract that offers the best reserve rules, most days off, never Junior manned, and top hourly .... good luck. There is no talk of mediation at the moment (but possibly in the future) and definitely no strike. Both sides are trying to figure out how to proceed at the moment.

The company was willing to put annual bonuses into a contract, but only small percentage raises as a hedge against an economic downturn. The senior guys don't like the recruiting bonuses because they were never offered them when they were hired, so no contract bonuses for new pilots outside of the company's new hire incentives which are nothing to sneeze at anyway.

As of yesterday, all new hires have been assigned to CAE to fill a brand new base there. Many veterans have also been displaced with as much as 15 years. That, as you can imagine, has created a whole new level of hate and discontent. I heard from 1 CA that this was his 11th displacement in 11 years. MKE and CAE are now the Junior bases, so if you want MKE out of training chances are still fairly good. There is no long call reserve being used in the current contract.

I drive a little over an hour to MKE. I just finished 2 1/2 months on reserve and am a line holder this month. I flew almost everyday of my reserve period. They typically called me between 6-7p the night before and told me when to report. The 4:45a show is a little rough ... Because everyone was complaining about constant Junior manning, the company slowed down to catch a breath the last 45 days or so. The FO's quit being junior manned and even sat at home on reserve days. They are still short of Captains at the moment and they are still being Junior manned regularly. Indications are that flying will pick up again once the new CAE base is in operation. More Junior mans ahead for everyone ....

As far as bonus moneys, you are correct that they offer the extra 8k for CL-65 type. You get the first 5k basically on your first check. The 26k & 8k don't get paid until after successful completion of training or IOE. (After taxes, the 26k was only 16k and I dialed up my exemptions all the way.) Now for the fine print ... Taking the bonuses locks you into a 24 month committment to AW. Odds are good that MKE will be a base at least that long. The company has been advertising 18-24 month upgrades, but did just have 1 person do it in 12 months due to many senior FO's bypassing because they didn't want to be in MKE. Previous 121 & CL-65 would probably make you a candidate for the 12 month option.

With the looming pilot shortage, used & abused is becoming the norm regardless of the company. MKE has early starts and late finishes, that's all there is too it. But ... you can drive there. At least for a while. At some point in the future, MKE will be closed as the market and company moves and I ( and others) will become commuters begging for jumpseats to work. It's inevitable. MKE will be a base for AW for the next 3-4 years ... probably. After that????? That part about never commuting again ... you might need to reconsider your position. Again, if that's your goal ... good luck.

It's a good group of people, but come in with your eyes open. Make the best of it. Chances are you'll work more than you might want but where else are you going to get a MKE base? Are there other companies out there looking for help? Absolutely ... at the moment you can basically pick what you want. I picked AW, despite some of the negatives, for mostly positive reasons. Feel free to PM with more direct questions.

That was some very helpful information. Thank you!

squib
08-14-2018, 07:18 PM
I heard from 1 CA that this was his 11th displacement in 11 years.

11 displacements? Doubtful in reality.

10 years of that was flown under AA/USair with only two base closures before United flying. There has been a lot of recent change with opening new domiciles but most 11 year guys are holding whatever they want so 3-5 displacements is a more realistic number and expected when completely changing the carrier for which your company flies under and that's only if they were ex RDU and LGA based. Unless the guy doesn't know how to bid or drastically changes it with every vacancy those numbers just don't make any sense.

airscout
08-14-2018, 09:20 PM
I couldn't imagine 11 displacements. Especially if you had a family. Speaking for myself, I've been in and out of the airlines flying since 1998. I had to downgrade once, was furloughed twice and displaced 4 times. That's more than enough pain for me. All I can say is that I'm really glad I didn't join Air Wisconsin a couple months ago only to be awarded CAE if I was expecting MKE. That would have really sucked. And I'm no longer considering AWAC. Just seems too risky based on passed experience.

injun21
08-15-2018, 10:00 PM
Alright, you seem to have run into a bitter responder that no longer works at ZW. There are several of them out here. I'll try to be a little more helpful. The previous responses are correct in that there is not a current contract agreement and that it probably won't go anywhere substantial before 2019. If you are looking for the PERFECT contract that offers the best reserve rules, most days off, never Junior manned, and top hourly .... good luck. There is no talk of mediation at the moment (but possibly in the future) and definitely no strike. Both sides are trying to figure out how to proceed at the moment.

The company was willing to put annual bonuses into a contract, but only small percentage raises as a hedge against an economic downturn. The senior guys don't like the recruiting bonuses because they were never offered them when they were hired, so no contract bonuses for new pilots outside of the company's new hire incentives which are nothing to sneeze at anyway.

As of yesterday, all new hires have been assigned to CAE to fill a brand new base there. Many veterans have also been displaced with as much as 15 years. That, as you can imagine, has created a whole new level of hate and discontent. I heard from 1 CA that this was his 11th displacement in 11 years. MKE and CAE are now the Junior bases, so if you want MKE out of training chances are still fairly good. There is no long call reserve being used in the current contract.

I drive a little over an hour to MKE. I just finished 2 1/2 months on reserve and am a line holder this month. I flew almost everyday of my reserve period. They typically called me between 6-7p the night before and told me when to report. The 4:45a show is a little rough ... Because everyone was complaining about constant Junior manning, the company slowed down to catch a breath the last 45 days or so. The FO's quit being junior manned and even sat at home on reserve days. They are still short of Captains at the moment and they are still being Junior manned regularly. Indications are that flying will pick up again once the new CAE base is in operation. More Junior mans ahead for everyone ....

As far as bonus moneys, you are correct that they offer the extra 8k for CL-65 type. You get the first 5k basically on your first check. The 26k & 8k don't get paid until after successful completion of training or IOE. (After taxes, the 26k was only 16k and I dialed up my exemptions all the way.) Now for the fine print ... Taking the bonuses locks you into a 24 month committment to AW. Odds are good that MKE will be a base at least that long. The company has been advertising 18-24 month upgrades, but did just have 1 person do it in 12 months due to many senior FO's bypassing because they didn't want to be in MKE. Previous 121 & CL-65 would probably make you a candidate for the 12 month option.

With the looming pilot shortage, used & abused is becoming the norm regardless of the company. MKE has early starts and late finishes, that's all there is too it. But ... you can drive there. At least for a while. At some point in the future, MKE will be closed as the market and company moves and I ( and others) will become commuters begging for jumpseats to work. It's inevitable. MKE will be a base for AW for the next 3-4 years ... probably. After that????? That part about never commuting again ... you might need to reconsider your position. Again, if that's your goal ... good luck.

It's a good group of people, but come in with your eyes open. Make the best of it. Chances are you'll work more than you might want but where else are you going to get a MKE base? Are there other companies out there looking for help? Absolutely ... at the moment you can basically pick what you want. I picked AW, despite some of the negatives, for mostly positive reasons. Feel free to PM with more direct questions.



This is exactly correct. At my last regional I never flew more than 69 hours a month. I never credited more than 79 hours a month. Tomorrow, I was supposed to block 7.6 hours. I will fly 2 an get paid for the original 7.6. You make ALOT of money here. Ghis guy was junior manned because he was on reserve. I was never on reserve and was never junior manned. The MKE base makes it difficult because if they JM you, they usually have to cover your last leg flying. I wonít say protected. Iíll say insulated, from junior manning. Once you make CA anywhere, all bets are off. Rank has its privliges.



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