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View Full Version : ATP Oral


CH1203
08-09-2018, 02:53 PM
A friend of mine left for RPA training a few months ago. He failed his ATP oral twice. According to him, the examiners have gotten progressively tougher as new classes come through. He said most of the orals lasted no more than an hour. His was over two hours, with the examiner going in depth with how the systems operated and the redundancies with each system. Has anyone else had a bad experience with the ATP? Do they single people out and go more in depth than others?


4V14T0R
08-09-2018, 03:05 PM
A friend of mine left for RPA training a few months ago. He failed his ATP oral twice. According to him, the examiners have gotten progressively tougher as new classes come through. He said most of the orals lasted no more than an hour. His was over two hours, with the examiner going in depth with how the systems operated and the redundancies with each system. Has anyone else had a bad experience with the ATP? Do they single people out and go more in depth than others?



Just like any checkride, if you dig yourself a hole.


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TheWeatherman
08-09-2018, 04:33 PM
Just like any checkride, if you dig yourself a hole.


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Exactly. I thought my Oral with my examiner went pretty well, but then again I went in there prepared. I thought it was kind of easy actually. But somebody in my class with the same examiner failed. Then he failed a second time with another examiner and got canned. I knew the type of person this guy was, and was always one to talk more then he should. He dug himself holes that exposed weaknesses in his knowledge base.


My experience and from what I heard of other Republic examiners, they are one of the fairest in the business. Now has that changed since last year? Knowing the personalities of a few of the examiners, I doubt they are the type of people to fail a few just to drive a point home that we are pushing too many trainees through right now. But who knows. Just go in there and have your memory items down pat and be prepared to go through every panel in the cockpit and explain the buttons/knobs and each system associated with it. You'll do fine.


twebb
08-09-2018, 06:53 PM
I felt the oral was very fair and no harder than any other FlightSafety/Simuflite type rating oral.

What does the switch do? When would it turn on/off? Here's a basic senerio, what do you think is happening?

Then they may ask a really in depth question on that system that connects to another system to see if you know it, if you do, they know you've done your homework and the rest is relaxed. If you don't, no big deal, it was just to test your depth of knowledge. On to the next system.

Orals today have greatly changed from the past. You don't have to build the airplane, but you do need real knowledge that can help you in the airplane.

Everything you need to know is in the AFM.

sflpilot
08-10-2018, 10:46 AM
When they started the 170 program years ago the answer to everything was basically system logic. That has changed over the years to where they do actually expect you to have knowledge of how all the systems work. I think you only need 80% systems knowledge to pass so you donít have to be perfect. But please donít show up without 100% knowledge of limitations and memory items. And donít go to simulator without complete memorization of profiles and callouts. You will get destroyed.

dirtysidedown
08-10-2018, 10:53 AM
I have always found oral exams performed by airline employees were always more in depth and involved than say, Flight Safety or CAE.

TheNotoriousPIC
08-10-2018, 05:40 PM
When they started the 170 program years ago the answer to everything was basically system logic. That has changed over the years to where they do actually expect you to have knowledge of how all the systems work. I think you only need 80% systems knowledge to pass so you donít have to be perfect. But please donít show up without 100% knowledge of limitations and memory items. And donít go to simulator without complete memorization of profiles and callouts. You will get destroyed.

At the moment i only have the "master book" study guide that they give new hires in the job offer email. Does this contain all of the limitations, call outs, and profiles or is there more coming in indoc?

TheWeatherman
08-10-2018, 06:09 PM
At the moment i only have the "master book" study guide that they give new hires in the job offer email. Does this contain all of the limitations, call outs, and profiles or is there more coming in indoc?
It has everything. It is not just for new hires, current pilots use it to brush up on systems before recurrent.

Jungle Jim
08-11-2018, 06:03 AM
Just like any checkride, if you dig yourself a hole.


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This shouldnít be understated. Your ďATP oralĒ isnít that far off from an ordinary 121 type ride oral. Study your stuff, come prepared, be confident but not cocky, and when you sit in front of the examiner, keep it to the point and on topic ó and FFS donít try to build the fíing airplane for them. They will eat your lunch every single time.

zanfarroway
08-11-2018, 11:26 AM
Where in the timeline is the oral scheduled? right after flat panel trainer? after the sims before the ride?

Bruno82
08-11-2018, 11:35 AM
I was asked in my oral how the gear is normally lowered. I said, ďTake the gear handle and move it to the down position.Ē The examiner said he loved the answer, but he then restated the question. (not at Republic btw)


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Jungle Jim
08-11-2018, 11:55 AM
Where in the timeline is the oral scheduled? right after flat panel trainer? after the sims before the ride?

Wherever they have time and space, but usually sometime after EFPT.

TheWeatherman
08-11-2018, 03:16 PM
Where in the timeline is the oral scheduled? right after flat panel trainer? after the sims before the ride?
After GFS and before SIMs unless they changed it.

DiveAndDrive
08-11-2018, 03:21 PM
So I'm going through the study guide they provide us. There are a TON of questions (like 30-40 pages worth) at the end. I'm literally just creating a flashcard of every single one of those questions, word for word. I know I will need a more indepth knowledge than rote memorization, but for someone who hasn't gone to class yet, am I in a good position? I definitely have a funny feeling those questions will be 80 percent of the oral.

TheWeatherman
08-11-2018, 03:24 PM
So I'm going through the study guide they provide us. There are a TON of questions (like 30-40 pages worth) at the end. I'm literally just creating a flashcard of every single one of those questions, word for word. I know I will need a more indepth knowledge than rote memorization, but for someone who hasn't gone to class yet, am I in a good position? I definitely have a funny feeling those questions will be 80 percent of the oral.
You will get a copy of the AOM in training. That combined with the CBTs will give you the more in-depth knowledge of the Systems that you cannot get out of the study guide.

DiveAndDrive
08-11-2018, 03:27 PM
Sweet. Thanks. I have heard nothing but good things about your ETHOS training program. I was skeptical, but I'm pretty excited and anxious to start. Are the CBTs always available, even after you're done with training? I'm the type of nerd that will go back and review different things periodically.

TheWeatherman
08-11-2018, 04:25 PM
Sweet. Thanks. I have heard nothing but good things about your ETHOS training program. I was skeptical, but I'm pretty excited and anxious to start. Are the CBTs always available, even after you're done with training? I'm the type of nerd that will go back and review different things periodically.
I went through before ETHOS, but the CBTs I had during systems are still available on our eLearn site (only available to employees). You will also go through some of them during your quarterly training.

njd1
08-11-2018, 05:09 PM
Sweet. Thanks. I have heard nothing but good things about your ETHOS training program. I was skeptical, but I'm pretty excited and anxious to start. Are the CBTs always available, even after you're done with training? I'm the type of nerd that will go back and review different things periodically.

I just finished systems, which consists of two weeks at home with Ethos and a week long review in a classroom in Indy, followed by a final exam.

Yes, one of the perks of Ethos is that you get it keep it after training so you can continually refer to it for review purposes, though practically speaking I doubt you'll need to do that as the AOM and Honeywell FMS manual will be your go-to aircraft systems references moving forward.

The exam is just a custom test created in Ethos of 50 of the roughly 600 questions contained in the program. At the end of each module they tell you to create a test consisting of all questions applicable to the given module. This means if you do those tests as required you will have seen all of the final exam questions at least once, and unless you blow off Ethos at home (don't go there) you should at least be familiar with the questions by the time you take the final.

The only thing that will change going forward (that I know about, anyway) is that the FAA just approached the company and said they have to increase the number of the questions on the final from 50 to 100, so at some point in the near future classes will have to take a longer test.

AFAIK everyone in my class passed systems (passing grade on the final is 80%) and when I caught a glimpse of the instructor's grade sheet all of the grades were in the 90s.

CBT IMO is the best way to study systems because it allows you to study at your own pace (within reason) and do a majority of study in the comfort of your own home...as opposed to camping out in Indy for two weeks watching some guy bored out of his mind running through powerpoint slides.

You DO watch a bunch of powerpoint slides during the week-long review but the instructors are constantly seeking input from the class so it's anything but boring. In fact, we had a lot of laughs and I learned a lot beyond Ethos...including how to run the FMS using simulators.

Best thing about the class is the fact that we had two instructors tag teaming (one sitting on the sidelines while the other taught) AND a 15 year check airman in the room willing to answer any questions. The check airman also conducted a mock oral at the end of the class which everyone found very helpful.

Best advice he gave was to answer each question simply and don't (as someone else put it) dig yourself a hole. If you're an engineer like me you're more at risk for screwing up because short answers aren't typical in the engineering world but here they're required.

If the APD (on staff examiner) asks you "what does EICAS mean?" you say exactly "Engine Instrumentation Crew Alerting System". And then shut your pie hole until he asks the next question. If he asks you "do you know the normal means by which the landing gear is lowered?" You say "yes". And again, shut your yapper until he asks for a more detailed answer. Listen to the question and answer it simply. If you say too much and happen to say something that leads him down a rat hole, he will pursue that line of questioning until he finds something you don't know. Don't give him the chance.

TheNotoriousPIC
08-11-2018, 08:04 PM
The only thing that will change going forward (that I know about, anyway) is that the FAA just approached the company and said they have to increase the number of the questions on the final from 50 to 100, so at some point in the near future classes will have to take a longer test.



Damn.

Anyway thank you for the great response. Any helpful tips about the training process that I can pick up here is great.

From what I can tell it seems that Republic does their training right. They give information through a proven and standardized process, and have appropriately high expectations during the checkrides. I can't imagine that they inherently want any candidate to fail, but they will not hesitate to drop someone once it is evident that they are not the type of candidate that they want as a pilot.

BosoxH60
08-12-2018, 05:14 AM
Damn.

It should make it ďeasierĒ. Yes, there are more questions, but you typically should know the answers. If you make a few mistakes in understanding the question, or just cant recall the information, itís better (in my opinion) to have a larger margin for error.

njd1
08-12-2018, 05:27 AM
It should make it “easier”. Yes, there are more questions, but you typically should know the answers. If you make a few mistakes in understanding the question, or just cant recall the information, it’s better (in my opinion) to have a larger margin for error.

That's certainly true, but I should note that based on what was discussed there was no indication that they were planning to increase the time allotted for the test (currently two hours). Fortunately, most people were done with the test in about 20-30 minutes so it's fair to say two hours should be more than enough if you know the material.

Web265
08-12-2018, 06:28 AM
I think some of this advice might be a little overboard, I just finished training in STL and I'm waiting for IOE (Next week)




Best advice he gave was to answer each question simply and don't (as someone else put it) dig yourself a hole. If you're an engineer like me you're more at risk for screwing up because short answers aren't typical in the engineering world but here they're required.


If the APD (on staff examiner) asks you "what does EICAS mean?" you say exactly "Engine Instrumentation Crew Alerting System". And then shut your pie hole until he asks the next question.

On the above parts I'd say spot on.....

On the below part, I think you might agitate the examiner a little with this. I'd answer the question I believe he/she intended, I wouldn't offer what hydro system it's on or start talking about the PTU till he/she asks but if they have to ask three questions to get every answer they're looking for, it might not go as well.

If he asks you "do you know the normal means by which the landing gear is lowered?" You say "yes". And again, shut your yapper until he asks for a more detailed answer. Listen to the question and answer it simply. If you say too much and happen to say something that leads him down a rat hole, he will pursue that line of questioning until he finds something you don't know. Don't give him the chance.

Just a thought...

njd1
08-12-2018, 08:40 AM
I think some of this advice might be a little overboard, I just finished training in STL and I'm waiting for IOE (Next week)

On the below part, I think you might agitate the examiner a little with this. I'd answer the question I believe he/she intended, I wouldn't offer what hydro system it's on or start talking about the PTU till he/she asks but if they have to ask three questions to get every answer they're looking for, it might not go as well.

Just a thought...

It was partially tongue in cheek, meant to drive home the point which is as you suggest -- give the answer you believe is correct with a minimum of detail until specifically asked about it.