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View Full Version : Horizon Q400 Stolen In SEA


BLURCEO
08-10-2018, 08:17 PM
Most bizarre audio Iíve ever herd,

https://heavy.com/news/2018/08/seatac-plane-stolen-hijacked-grounded-seattle/

First audio, starts around 16:30 in.


BarrySeal
08-10-2018, 08:18 PM
UNCONFIRMED

twitter and liveatc rumors as of now 2315 Central time

Flightcap
08-10-2018, 08:23 PM
https://heavy.com/news/2018/08/seatac-plane-stolen-hijacked-grounded-seattle/


SuperFlier
08-10-2018, 08:25 PM
Iím hoping this is just an elaborate hoax.

SuperFlier
08-10-2018, 08:28 PM
Maybe not...

Possible hijacking reported at SeaTac airport in Washington state | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/11/possible-hijacking-reported-at-seatac-airport-in-washington-state.html)

AZFlyer
08-10-2018, 08:32 PM
Video posted on Twitter
https://twitter.com/drbmbdgty/status/1028130383911501824?s=21

Flightcap
08-10-2018, 08:34 PM
A couple of cell phone videos:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158000209259199&id=70644859198

https://twitter.com/drbmbdgty/status/1028130383911501824

Flightcap
08-10-2018, 08:36 PM
Reports suggest the aircraft has crashed.

https://twitter.com/realtimwilliams/status/1028131310043389952

Baradium
08-10-2018, 08:38 PM
USAF still over SEA with Coast Guard under emergency deployment to Ketron Island.

BLURCEO
08-10-2018, 08:38 PM
Itís very real. The second recording set. Is very intense, back and forth with ATC. The isolated audio will be better when ever it comes about.

Flightcap
08-10-2018, 08:39 PM
Hoping the guy didn't take any innocent lives with him. Yikes.

Av8rPHX
08-10-2018, 08:42 PM
Alaska confirming no Pax on board. Looks like it was 449QX


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BLURCEO
08-10-2018, 08:43 PM
https://twitter.com/kai_ahs/status/1028136941143969798?s=21

Video of f15 following him.

iahflyr
08-10-2018, 08:51 PM
https://twitter.com/kai_ahs/status/1028136941143969798?s=21

Video of f15 following him.

Unarmed. I'm pretty sure it crashed and was not shot down.

flysooner9
08-10-2018, 08:53 PM
https://heavy.com/news/2018/08/seatac-plane-stolen-hijacked-grounded-seattle/

NYC Pilot
08-10-2018, 09:03 PM
Apparently, a mechanic stole a Horizon Air Q400, managed to takeoff from Seattle and crashed. Wow! Crazy stuff.

Hawker445
08-10-2018, 09:05 PM
Unarmed. I'm pretty sure it crashed and was not shot down.

Dumb. I'm pretty certain with any scramble alert on a hijacking..a fighter is going to be armed 100% of the time.

2StgTurbine
08-10-2018, 09:07 PM
Dumb. I'm pretty certain with any scramble alert on a hijacking..a fighter is going to be armed 100% of the time.

That wasnít the case for at least one fighter on 9/11.

Hawker445
08-10-2018, 09:11 PM
More audio on conversation between controller and mechanic. Kind of sad tbh

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/stolen-plane-forced-f-15s-south-seattle-seatac-airport-temporarily-grounded-amid-security-threat/

Varsity
08-10-2018, 09:16 PM
There are videos of him manuvering away from F-15's in a Q400.

wild

JamesNoBrakes
08-10-2018, 09:18 PM
Wrong forum.

Apparently flew for around an hour.

labare
08-10-2018, 09:21 PM
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/airplane-taken-from-seattle-tacoma-international-airport-has-crashed/


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hindsight2020
08-10-2018, 09:26 PM
pretty sad situation. Essentially broadcasting his suicide note and dramatic execution of his final day, to say the least. Mental health issues in our little country of 320 million is a real thing folks. Condolences to the surviving family.

threeighteen
08-10-2018, 09:32 PM
ATC tapes

http://garchives1.broadcastify.com/15227/20180810/201808102255-590200-15227.mp3

Tpinks
08-10-2018, 09:42 PM
Confirmed... he did indeed do a barrel roll. CNN just showed the video. Nearly went into the water on the recovery.

Hawker445
08-10-2018, 09:45 PM
Confirmed... he did indeed do a barrel roll. CNN just showed the video. Nearly went into the water on the recovery.

Is there a Link or is it live?

BobbyLeeSwagger
08-10-2018, 09:45 PM
Sorry to hear, guys.

Tpinks
08-10-2018, 09:53 PM
Is there a Link or is it live?

I haven't seen it online yet.

They have shown it at least 5 times now live, so just turn CNN on

JamesNoBrakes
08-10-2018, 09:55 PM
Confirmed... he did indeed do a barrel roll. CNN just showed the video. Nearly went into the water on the recovery.

Saw that, bizarre.

Super EZ E
08-10-2018, 09:58 PM
Sorry for all of you guy at Horizon, very sad moment. This is going to have major repercussions for all of us. :confused: In Vegas TV station keeps saying AA was the Airline. Go figure. What a mess!!!

Taco280AI
08-10-2018, 10:01 PM
The loop is on CNN, was the second video when I looked.

Tpinks
08-10-2018, 10:03 PM
https://www.facebook.com/jon.tornquist?hc_ref=ARR1xRJMRB6UvvlxVA7PCYZg4R1fs vppQdcJzMKeXq_8rFyDktHM0fr3T6ROPM3hWiY&fref=nf

A different video on Facebook of the roll. Gives a better view of just how low it got.

RiddleEagle18
08-10-2018, 10:04 PM
There goes everyoneís sida access.


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hydrostream
08-10-2018, 10:07 PM
Wow, he really did try it.

https://twitter.com/CameronThomsen/status/1028157648158568448

JamesNoBrakes
08-10-2018, 10:13 PM
Wow, he really did try it.

https://twitter.com/CameronThomsen/status/1028157648158568448

He didn't just try it, he did it.

The audio is crazy, he totally snapped for this whole episode.

freaky
08-10-2018, 10:17 PM
Unarmed. I'm pretty sure it crashed and was not shot down.

https://twitter.com/Sabian404/status/1028137639747051521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 11, 2018

Aviator147
08-10-2018, 10:30 PM
[QUOTE=Tpinks;2653005]I havent seen it online yet.

https://www.facebook.com/1396687468/posts/10212530580084953/


https://twitter.com/cameronthomsen/status/1028157648158568448?s=12

rickair7777
08-10-2018, 10:31 PM
That wasnít the case for at least one fighter on 9/11.

Yeah, well they learned that lesson. There's a plan for that now, and it involves armed fighters.

dk104444
08-10-2018, 11:21 PM
I really hope they will not penalize pilots for this. I am going to cry if they take KCM away.

trip
08-10-2018, 11:23 PM
Nothing to do with pilots, he was part of the tow crew moving it to overnight parking.

TiredSoul
08-11-2018, 02:07 AM
They shouldnít have let this go on for as long as it did.
As soon as they confirmed it was empty they should have shot it down.
This could have been 9-12.
WTF over.....

Cruz Clearance
08-11-2018, 02:37 AM
Recalling the Skywest pilot who killed his girlfriend. Glad he didnít get off the ground.

bluebirdflyer
08-11-2018, 02:38 AM
Unarmed. I'm pretty sure it crashed and was not shot down.

I can guarantee that F-15 is not unarmed. It probably was not shot down, but there were very real munitions on there.

LNL76
08-11-2018, 02:41 AM
They shouldnít have let this go on for as long as it did.
As soon as they confirmed it was empty they should have shot it down.
This could have been 9-12.
WTF over.....

Agreed! He was clearly suicidal and flew over residential areas. It's a miracle he didn't take innocents out with him!

TiredSoul
08-11-2018, 02:51 AM
First thought needs to be terrorism.
Shot down, discover he was suicidal?
Well he achieved his goals.
Suicide by ďcopĒ.

IFlyEm
08-11-2018, 03:10 AM
Disgruntled employee. My biggest concern would have been he decided to crash into the terminal. They probably should have taken him out when he was flying over the sound.

Adlerdriver
08-11-2018, 03:33 AM
Yeah, well they learned that lesson. There's a plan for that now, and it involves armed fighters.
Thereís always been a ďplanĒ for the air defense of the US using armed fighters and it started way before 9/11. Air Defense alert fighters are always armed and always have been. The unarmed aircraft on 9/11 just happened to be in the area while training. 9/11 didnít suddenly make the US start arming AD fighters.

Fredturbo
08-11-2018, 04:15 AM
He did ask if they would give him a pilot job at Alaska if he completed the loop. Also said low pay helped drive this. Maybe that will help bring up pay.

Boogerface
08-11-2018, 04:24 AM
This compilation contains most of the audio and video released so far: https://youtu.be/LeYVtVg6aGs

Mesabah
08-11-2018, 04:54 AM
Looks like he was a ramper,
RQ765Fnec8Q

rickair7777
08-11-2018, 05:17 AM
Thereís always been a ďplanĒ for the air defense of the US using armed fighters and it started way before 9/11. Air Defense alert fighters are always armed and always have been. The unarmed aircraft on 9/11 just happened to be in the area while training. 9/11 didnít suddenly make the US start arming AD fighters.

I know all that. My roommate did CAP over the bay area on the morning of 9/11 in a hornet because he happened to be standing around in a g-suit suit next to a plane with live ammo on board. As you should know, post cold war, the "density" of alert units was reduced to save money. That was actually reasonable since the system was designed to defend against penetration of US airspace by Russian aircraft, which was not a much of concern in 2001. I was alluding to the fact that they increased the availability of homeland defense alerts post-9/11.

rickair7777
08-11-2018, 05:23 AM
They shouldnít have let this go on for as long as it did.
As soon as they confirmed it was empty they should have shot it down.
This could have been 9-12.
WTF over.....


Hate to say it, but you may be right. And whether it was empty or not should really not have anything to do with that call, at that point there's nothing you can do for innocents on board, either way.

Perhaps they did have authorization to shoot if he approached downtown or other high density areas. I'd like to think it was a calculated decision, as opposed to couldn't get in tough with the right guy to make the call. That later is unlikely IMO, since that authority resides with SECDEF if needed.

USMCFLYR
08-11-2018, 05:25 AM
Unarmed. I'm pretty sure it crashed and was not shot down.

Definitely armed if NORAD scrambled them as reported.

tunes
08-11-2018, 05:41 AM
Looks like he was a ramper,


Looks like no

Excargodog
08-11-2018, 05:58 AM
Unarmed. I'm pretty sure it crashed and was not shot down.


I'd be surprised if the F-15 didn't have 20mm loaded, if only because it is a PITA to empty the feeding mechanism and it can be manually safed and rapidly U safed. But even if armed it would be hard to use in a highly populated area unless you were really careful. You could do damn near as much damage with an errant line of 20mm as you could with a random Q400 crash. And yeah, employing a missile safely might have been even harder.

Perhaps the perp tried that barrel roll he was threatening to do...

snackysmores
08-11-2018, 06:01 AM
Terrible.

Hard to believe it was a ramper...would have needed to do a lot of research to figure out how to start up and get the plane going..

prex8390
08-11-2018, 06:09 AM
Terrible.

Hard to believe it was a ramper...would have needed to do a lot of research to figure out how to start up and get the plane going..


I googled ďhow to start a Q400Ē and numerous YouTube videos from people playing flight simulator popped up. Do that enough and youíve got it. One of the audio clips he claims he has played a lot of video games so Iím assuming thatís all it took.

Absolutely horrendous, I canít imagine being that approach controller today, he tried so hard to get the guy to come down. He did an excellent job remaining calm.

UAL T38 Phlyer
08-11-2018, 06:28 AM
Looks like no

Why do you think not? Did you watch the video?

That’s definitely the same voice on the ATC tapes.

What strikes me: he seemed so....normal in his video....even fortunate, visiting far away places; even above-average video-editing skills....:confused:

Excargodog:

Perhaps the perp tried that barrel roll he was threatening to do...

He DID do the roll, and bottomed out at (a guess, based on camera perspective and terrain angles) 100-200 AGL. There’s a clip of it on this thread.

tunes
08-11-2018, 06:29 AM
Why do you think not? Did you watch the video?

Thatís definitely the same voice on the ATC tapes.

What strikes me: he seemed so....normal. :confused:

Excargodog:



He DID do the roll, and bottomed out at (a guess, based on camera perspective and terrain angles) 100-200 AGL. Thereís a clip of it on this thread.
Didnít it come out he was a mechanic and not a ramper?

UAL T38 Phlyer
08-11-2018, 06:33 AM
Ahh...I donít think they have definitively said. My guess, from his video, and bits and pieces of initial news releases: if not a ramper, he may have been a fueler or de-ice guy.

Melit
08-11-2018, 06:34 AM
They shouldnít have let this go on for as long as it did.
As soon as they confirmed it was empty they should have shot it down.
This could have been 9-12.
WTF over.....

Another armchair QB. My apology if you are a trained professional for these kind of situations

UAL T38 Phlyer
08-11-2018, 07:07 AM
I'd be surprised if the F-15 didn't have 20mm loaded, if only because it is a PITA to empty the feeding mechanism and it can be manually safed and rapidly U safed. But even if armed it would be hard to use in a highly populated area unless you were really careful. You could do damn near as much damage with an errant line of 20mm as you could with a random Q400 crash. And yeah, employing a missile safely might have been even harder.
.........

^^^^This, and to Tired Soul, too:

In 1989, a MiG-23 from western Poland flew across the inter-German border. Soesterberg Eagles were scrambled...jet was flying a straight line.

When they joined on it...nobody in the cockpit. The pilot had bailed out shortly after takeoff when the AB failed...but the jet kept going.

The intercept pilots and authorities debated what to do. At this point, it was over Frankfurt and the Ruhr valley. They ultimately decided to just monitor it. They hoped it would make it to the North Sea, and then they could splash with less risk (although there is still a lot of shipping there...just less dense than all the villages and hamlets of the continent).

Unfortunately, it flamed out over Belgium, and crashed into a house, killing an 18-year old.

I think in the Q400 case, they were hoping they could get him to land.

tunes
08-11-2018, 07:12 AM
My apologies...latest report says ground service agent now instead of mechanic.

cactusflyer
08-11-2018, 07:18 AM
Ahh...I donít think they have definitively said. My guess, from his video, and bits and pieces of initial news releases: if not a ramper, he may have been a fueler or de-ice guy.

Reports are now saying that the employee in question was part of the tow team, which means he would have known more about how to use some stuff on the airplane (namely the radio) than someone who wasn't involved in towing the airplanes around.

Flight tracking sites show the last revenue flight the airplane did was YYJ-SEA (which meant the airplane was towed after arriving in SEA), and if it was left on the north end of the airport, it was in one of the few places where there could be sufficient room to taxi the airplane out of the parking spot under it's own power.

domino
08-11-2018, 07:26 AM
Reports are now saying that the employee in question was part of the tow team, which means he would have known more about how to use some stuff on the airplane (namely the radio) than someone who wasn't involved in towing the airplanes around.

Flight tracking sites show the last revenue flight the airplane did was YYJ-SEA (which meant the airplane was towed after arriving in SEA), and if it was left on the north end of the airport, it was in one of the few places where there could be sufficient room to taxi the airplane out of the parking spot under it's own power.

He flew the plane better than most new hires

Albief15
08-11-2018, 07:40 AM
Another armchair QB. My apology if you are a trained professional for these kind of situations

Does sitting alert on 9-11 after years of sitting alert in Alaska and Zulu Alert in Germany make me a trained professional?

FYI...when we got rid of missiles on the alert jets for a period since the Ruskies were our friends again (92-95) we kept a hot gun on alert jets and maybe one aim-9? That was a downshift from a full up 4x4 Aim7/Aim9 loadout previously carried. 9/11 had the jets go back to a full WRM...

I wish they'd have shot him down. If only to say "you will die" if you ever try this stupid stunt... Sharing the rambling audio only makes this guy a media darling. Copycats are a potential problem. Expect our flightlines to start to look like prisons.

This guy just made our lives much harder. The TSA intrusion into our workplace just got a lot worse. Lots of stupid stuff by the .0000001% puts more sand in the gears of the rest of us who just want to go enjoy our jobs without being hassled.

Av8rPHX
08-11-2018, 07:44 AM
Does sitting alert on 9-11 after years of sitting alert in Alaska and Zulu Alert in Germany make me a trained professional?



FYI...when we got rid of missiles on the alert jets for a period since the Ruskies were our friends again (92-95) we kept a hot gun on alert jets and maybe one aim-9? That was a downshift from a full up 4x4 Aim7/Aim9 loadout previously carried. 9/11 had the jets go back to a full WRM...



I wish they'd have shot him down. If only to say "you will die" if you ever try this stupid stunt... Sharing the rambling audio only makes this guy a media darling. Copycats are a potential problem. Expect our flightlines to start to look like prisons.



This guy just made our lives much harder. The TSA intrusion into our workplace just got a lot worse. Lots of stupid stuff by the .0000001% puts more sand in the gears of the rest of us who just want to go enjoy our jobs without being hassled.



My thoughts exactly...copycats would be worrisome. "Look how easily he flew it before he started doing stunts".


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Mercyful Fate
08-11-2018, 07:50 AM
Does sitting alert on 9-11 after years of sitting alert in Alaska and Zulu Alert in Germany make me a trained professional?

FYI...when we got rid of missiles on the alert jets for a period since the Ruskies were our friends again (92-95) we kept a hot gun on alert jets and maybe one aim-9? That was a downshift from a full up 4x4 Aim7/Aim9 loadout previously carried. 9/11 had the jets go back to a full WRM...

I wish they'd have shot him down. If only to say "you will die" if you ever try this stupid stunt... Sharing the rambling audio only makes this guy a media darling. Copycats are a potential problem. Expect our flightlines to start to look like prisons.

This guy just made our lives much harder. The TSA intrusion into our workplace just got a lot worse. Lots of stupid stuff by the .0000001% puts more sand in the gears of the rest of us who just want to go enjoy our jobs without being hassled.


Yea, I agree that they should have splashed this plane over the water. I do find it concerning that they didn't.

Smutter
08-11-2018, 07:59 AM
Terrible.

Hard to believe it was a ramper...would have needed to do a lot of research to figure out how to start up and get the plane going..

Why? People go to atp and have all we have in 3 months. We have such an easy job. This **** is funny, this man was having fun, and went out the way he wanted to dangerous to everyone on the ground, but he didnt. Not the first time either, the pilot in Utah killed his girlfriend then stole a crj200 and crashed it.

tunes
08-11-2018, 07:59 AM
Yea, I agree that they should have splashed this plane over the water. I do find it concerning that they didn't.

While i agree they should have, they probably didnt because of the time it takes to get the actual approval

Stinger6
08-11-2018, 08:00 AM
He flew the plane better than most new hires

Ha! I was thinking the same thing!!!

Mercyful Fate
08-11-2018, 08:01 AM
While i agree they should have, they probably didnt because of the time it takes to get the actual approval


That could very well could be true...which leads to a whole other problem if that was the case.

RomeoHotel
08-11-2018, 08:02 AM
How did he get on the active runway...?
Not that there is a physical barrier or anything...but it makes you wonder if he attempted to get a TO clearance...or if there was any conflict with other arriving or departing aircraft. Who knows if he even took off in the right direction...

In hindsight it would have made a lot of sense to evacuate the terminals, and Sea-Tac tower. Also, tall structures like the Space Needle...

I can't imagine the mood in the SEA tower knowing you are a possible strike candidate for the end of that bizarre drama.

Excargodog
08-11-2018, 08:03 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45153535

JamesNoBrakes
08-11-2018, 08:04 AM
How did he get on the active runway...?

By taxiing.

Excargodog
08-11-2018, 08:05 AM
How did he get on the active runway...?
Not that there is a physical barrier or anything...but it makes you wonder if he attempted to get a TO clearance...or if there was any conflict with other arriving or departing aircraft. Who knows if he even took off in the right direction...

In hindsight it would have made a lot of sense to evacuate the terminals, and Sea-Tac tower. Also, tall structures like the Space Needle...

I can't imagine the mood in the SEA tower knowing you are a possible strike candidate for the end of that bizarre drama.

Why would he need an active runway. A long enough stretch of Tarmac or empty taxiway woukd do it.

Excargodog
08-11-2018, 08:09 AM
That could very well could be true...which leads to a whole other problem if that was the case.

Back when I was in the USAF the whole scenario was constantly discussed. Even sitting five minute alert you were still notification time plus five minutes behind the guy. Then, assuming a populated area like SEA, how do you SAFELY shoot him down. A stream of 20 mm can do a lot of damage in a populated area. A missile dropping a flaming Q400 onto West Seattle ain't good either.

DjHubberts
08-11-2018, 08:11 AM
So all these clips seem to start with AFTER he did a flight around Rainer. How did he even get airborne? What did tower sound like for his Ďunauthorizedí departure? And how did he not hurt anyone doing that? Landing traffic, etc....

Adlerdriver
08-11-2018, 08:21 AM
Why? People go to atp and have all we have in 3 months. We have such an easy job. This **** is funny, this man was having fun, and went out the way he wanted to dangerous to everyone on the ground, but he didnt. "People" don't get what I have (or anyone else I work with has) in 3-months :rolleyes:. It can be an easy job now and then.... until it isn't. That has nothing to do with this individual being able to get airborne. Get enough speed on a long runway and the airplane will fly itself off the ground. Did he land? That's a far different part of the discussion and we all know the answer. The job's not going to be easier thanks to him. This clown definitely made the non-flying, getting to the jet part a lot harder.

Definitely not funny. I doubt the ATC controller trying to talk him down or the F-15 pilots who watched him pack it in thought it was funny. I doubt Horizon thinks a dead employee and a destroyed aircraft is funny.

amcnd
08-11-2018, 08:23 AM
Why? People go to atp and have all we have in 3 months. We have such an easy job. This **** is funny, this man was having fun, and went out the way he wanted to dangerous to everyone on the ground, but he didnt. Not the first time either, the pilot in Utah killed his girlfriend then stole a crj200 and crashed it.

He killed his girlfriend in colorado. Road his motorcycle to SGU, jumped the fence, got in a 200 that he is typed on. It was very lucky the nose wheel steering was unhooked. It wouldnít turn ans hit a fence. After that he took his own life with a gun he had on him. Very sad. I would run into him when we both commuted out of ORD. He flew for Air Wisconsin then..

Broncofan
08-11-2018, 08:40 AM
He killed his girlfriend in colorado. Road his motorcycle to SGU, jumped the fence, got in a 200 that he is typed on. It was very lucky the nose wheel steering was unhooked. It wouldnít turn ans hit a fence. After that he took his own life with a gun he had on him. Very sad. I would run into him when we both commuted out of ORD. He flew for Air Wisconsin then..

Flew with this individual 2 weeks prior to the event. Seemed like a normal guy except he kept telling me about how he was guard special forces. I didn't think there was such a thing so it seemed odd, come to find out he was a cook.

trip
08-11-2018, 09:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LLmF9tZoEE

From the start. Taxied out from the cargo area near the end of 16:

jcountry
08-11-2018, 09:11 AM
By taxiing.

Ohhhhhhh, SNAP!

Ala5ka
08-11-2018, 09:34 AM
Kind of irrelevant to this whole unfortunate situation but there is guard special forces. 20th special forces group is an example. Source, Iím in 20th group. Flew with this individual 2 weeks prior to the event. Seemed like a normal guy except he kept telling me about how he was guard special forces. I didn't think there was such a thing so it seemed odd, come to find out he was a cook.

Broncofan
08-11-2018, 09:37 AM
Kind of irrelevant to this whole unfortunate situation but there is guard special forces. 20th special forces group is an example. Source, Iím in 20th group.

Oh cool now I know

Stoked27
08-11-2018, 10:19 AM
This guy just made our lives much harder. The TSA intrusion into our workplace just got a lot worse. Lots of stupid stuff by the .0000001% puts more sand in the gears of the rest of us who just want to go enjoy our jobs without being hassled.

At the same time it gave more reason for the argument against the development of increased automation for single-pilot 121 operation.

Dougdrvr
08-11-2018, 10:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LLmF9tZoEE

From the start. Taxied out from the cargo area near the end of 16:
Sounds like he took off with the parking brake on.

RomeoHotel
08-11-2018, 10:49 AM
Sounds like he took off with the parking brake on.

Might explain why he had ďmore fuel burnage than expectedĒ
... canít imagine the thrust necessary to override the parking brake to taxi and takeoff...

PurpleToolBox
08-11-2018, 10:51 AM
Why? People go to atp and have all we have in 3 months. We have such an easy job. This **** is funny, this man was having fun, and went out the way he wanted to dangerous to everyone on the ground, but he didnt. Not the first time either, the pilot in Utah killed his girlfriend then stole a crj200 and crashed it.

Our jobs aren't easy. There's a lot of information embedded into the books that SNAPs don't take the time to read because 99.9% of their flights don't require the knowledge. What other profession takes recurring physicals, recurring certifications, and recurring training and updating of procedures and practices? And in a flash you're suddenly unfit or unqualified to do your job? Not many.

This situation is not funny. It is scary to be honest. How will this impact our careers going forward?

The public once again is wondering how someone can steal an airplane and joy ride it. The public once again fears our skies and security procedures aren't sound. Worse, our jobs probably just got a lot harder.

Imagine KCM gone tomorrow.
Imagine having to go through recurring psych and polygraph tests. (Think I'm kidding??)
Imagine no more jumpseating.
Imagine the politicians demanding planes that can be controlled from the ground in case of an emergency. How long do you think until your job is gone completely.

I can extrapolate all kinds of doom and gloom from this incident. Hopefully calmer heads will prevail.

snackysmores
08-11-2018, 10:51 AM
They are confirming it was a ramper.

Moose
08-11-2018, 10:52 AM
https://usdailyreport.com/2018/08/11/richard-rich-russell-a-suicidal-man-steals-and-crashes-plane-from-sea-tac-international-airport-touches-people-on-social-media_n_536.html

Qotsaautopilot
08-11-2018, 11:07 AM
I’m positive having no experience on the Q I wouldn’t have been able to get one started and off the ground. Guy flew the chit out of that thing

100LL
08-11-2018, 11:19 AM
Itís been around for a while now.....

Mesabah
08-11-2018, 12:10 PM
Iím positive having no experience on the Q I wouldnít have been able to get one started and off the ground. Guy flew the chit out of that thing
The employee website probably allowed him access to the flight ops section.

snackysmores
08-11-2018, 12:12 PM
The employee website probably allowed him access to the flight ops section.

Only thing he would be able to see there are checklists, which would already be in the plane.

minimwage4
08-11-2018, 12:24 PM
He flew the plane better than most new hires

Lol I know it's a messed up situation but damnnn he was doing rolls up there! Props to him. No pun intended. Someone should have given that man a lesson, could have been the next chuck Yeager!

WesternSkies
08-11-2018, 12:40 PM
Imagine KCM gone tomorrow.
Imagine having to go through recurring psych and polygraph tests. (Think I'm kidding??)



Yeah I do think you are kidding about the polygraphs because that would be illegal, purpletoolbox

prex8390
08-11-2018, 12:43 PM
Iím positive having no experience on the Q I wouldnít have been able to get one started and off the ground. Guy flew the chit out of that thing

Like I stated earlier, google how to start a q400 and a million dweebs have posted on YouTube how to go from a cold dark cockpit to the take off roll. He even says in the audio heís played video games (assuming me means FSX or something). I know we think weíre all hot shots landing on the moon but flying an airplane (not to standards) isnít too hard.

prex8390
08-11-2018, 12:48 PM
Yeah I do think you are kidding about the polygraphs because that would be illegal, purpletoolbox

Whatís illegal about psychological testing? United and AA make you take the hogan, Delta has its whole second day of the interview. What can prevent them from say, having everyone spend 45 minutes with a shrink during recurrent or during your annual medical. We are already required to get a physical; what the difference from the FAA saying letís check their brains too? Iím sure thereís a lot of pilots out there that would feel more comfortable knowing that they were able to talk to somebody without maybe repercussions or be able to get help instead of hiding something.

We should be thankful this guy went out by himself. I for one donít want to see an American version of Germanwings before the FAA finally does something about mental health.

Qotsaautopilot
08-11-2018, 01:00 PM
Like I stated earlier, google how to start a q400 and a million dweebs have posted on YouTube how to go from a cold dark cockpit to the take off roll. He even says in the audio heís played video games (assuming me means FSX or something). I know we think weíre all hot shots landing on the moon but flying an airplane (not to standards) isnít too hard.

People actually post something that boring on the internet?! Either way, he flew the crap out of that thing.

WesternSkies
08-11-2018, 01:05 PM
Whatís illegal about psychological testing? United and AA make you take the hogan, Delta has its whole second day of the interview. What can prevent them from say, having everyone spend 45 minutes with a shrink during recurrent or during your annual medical. We are already required to get a physical; what the difference from the FAA saying letís check their brains too? Iím sure thereís a lot of pilots out there that would feel more comfortable knowing that they were able to talk to somebody without maybe repercussions or be able to get help instead of hiding something.

We should be thankful this guy went out by himself. I for one donít want to see an American version of Germanwings before the FAA finally does something about mental health.

Low reading comprehension.
Poly-graphs.
Aka lie detector tests.
Illegal.

jungle driver
08-11-2018, 01:15 PM
Low reading comprehension.
Poly-graphs.
Aka lie detector tests.
Illegal.

It's only illegal until its not... laws can be changed and they often are after events like this. :(

Pogey Bait
08-11-2018, 01:18 PM
I personally think we will see no repercussions on this from any government entity. Had this individual been a ďpilotĒ then we would have a totally different story on our hands.

He sure picked the right equipment for the job.

PurpleToolBox
08-11-2018, 01:52 PM
Low reading comprehension.
Poly-graphs.
Aka lie detector tests.
Illegal.


Illegal for PRIVATE COMPANIES. Our licenses and medicals are issued by federal agencies. Many of them use polygraphs.


While this situation would be an extreme possibility, having to visit a psychologist as part of your medical is not. Although the FAA ruled they will not require pilots to undergo psychological testing or visits to a psychologist, that decision could change should we see more incidents like this -- especially if the person is a pilot or we have another GermanWings incident.



https://www.economist.com/gulliver/2015/05/27/psychologists-required




"In January, the FAA began enhancing training for AMEís so they can increase their knowledge on mental health and enhance their ability to identify warning signs." https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=20455 (https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=20455)

Broncofan
08-11-2018, 02:19 PM
Like I stated earlier, google how to start a q400 and a million dweebs have posted on YouTube how to go from a cold dark cockpit to the take off roll. He even says in the audio heís played video games (assuming me means FSX or something). I know we think weíre all hot shots landing on the moon but flying an airplane (not to standards) isnít too hard.

Everyone keeps saying our job isnt hard. Well, as i recall, he wasn't able to land the thing, and i think we can all agree managing descent planning, speed and altitude control on landing is the most challenging part. The part he could not do

prex8390
08-11-2018, 02:22 PM
Everyone keeps saying our job isnt hard. Well, as i recall, he wasn't able to land the thing, and i think we can all agree managing descent planning, speed and altitude control on landing is the most challenging part. The part he could not do

I donít donít think he had any intention of landing.

motorclutch
08-11-2018, 02:22 PM
But....he could do one hell of a barrel roll!

Mercyful Fate
08-11-2018, 02:54 PM
Back when I was in the USAF the whole scenario was constantly discussed. Even sitting five minute alert you were still notification time plus five minutes behind the guy. Then, assuming a populated area like SEA, how do you SAFELY shoot him down. A stream of 20 mm can do a lot of damage in a populated area. A missile dropping a flaming Q400 onto West Seattle ain't good either.


Yea, absolutely you make good points about the possible results of shooting an aircraft down. You can obviously shed more light on this with your background, how exactly are risk assessments made in cases like this?

Excargodog
08-11-2018, 02:58 PM
Illegal for PRIVATE COMPANIES. Our licenses and medicals are issued by federal agencies. Many of them use polygraphs.


While this situation would be an extreme possibility, having to visit a psychologist as part of your medical is not. Although the FAA ruled they will not require pilots to undergo psychological testing or visits to a psychologist, that decision could change should we see more incidents like this -- especially if the person is a pilot or we have another GermanWings incident.



https://www.economist.com/gulliver/2015/05/27/psychologists-required




"In January, the FAA began enhancing training for AMEís so they can increase their knowledge on mental health and enhance their ability to identify warning signs." https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=20455 (https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=20455)


Immediately after the Reagan assassination attempt the head of the American Psychiatric Association, in defense of the would-be assassins psychiatrist, said for the record that psychiatrists were no better at predicting violent or sociopathic behavior than anyone else (calling into question exactly what the hÄ|| ARE they good for, but that's a different rant) and precisely nothing has changed to alter that view.

As for the Hogan and MMPI, both have been shown to lack predictive value positive and negative, meaning the guy who passes could still be a future axe murderer and the guy who fails might very well have nothing wrong with him.

Which is why the military has no-lone zones around their nukes. Nobody, whatever their rank, experience, or mental health certainty is permitted unobserved access. There is always someone else watching to make sure they haven't suddenly turned into a whacko. But there we are talking nukes, not a Q400.

I know that we are all very aviation oriented or we wouldn't be here, but seriously, somebody could probably hijack a propane or gasoline tanker truck and drive it under the Seattle convention center on I-5 - or in the I-90 tunnels - and do every bit as much damage and kill just as many people as this guy could have with the Q400.

Looking at where cost effective improvements can be made in intercepting aircraft that start engines or start moving without authorization might be worthwhile, although even that is not without hazard.

Going ape$£it crazy with poorly predictive tests probably isn't.

jungle driver
08-11-2018, 03:12 PM
something like this could be used to prevent unauthorized runway access as well as preventing runway incursions. gates only drop when you are cleared to line up and wait, cross or takeoff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wPliTkBR48

Two Kings
08-11-2018, 03:15 PM
something like this could be used to prevent unauthorized runway access as well as preventing runway incursions. gates only drop when you are cleared to line up and wait, cross or takeoff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wPliTkBR48

Couldnít someone just take off on a wide taxiway?

JamesNoBrakes
08-11-2018, 03:28 PM
something like this could be used to prevent unauthorized runway access as well as preventing runway incursions. gates only drop when you are cleared to line up and wait, cross or takeoff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wPliTkBR48

Incredibly expensive solution when you could just lock the controls/door, etc...

Stinger6
08-11-2018, 03:31 PM
Couldnít someone just take off on a wide taxiway?

Or land on one?
Tango? Tango?

Or Pullman, for that matter...which is a whole 'nother story but a narrow and challenging surface.

Fleet Warp
08-11-2018, 03:31 PM
Couldnít someone just take off on a wide taxiway?

You mean long enough?

EasyVictor
08-11-2018, 03:35 PM
Couldnít someone just take off on a wide taxiway?

Or an intetsection down field

Pilsung
08-11-2018, 04:11 PM
Although many folks on these forums call PC sims "useless video games", it doesn't surprise me at all with their current level of realism and simulation that someone putting in some wrench time would be able to get the props spinning and take to the skies...

https://www.google.com/amp/store.x-plane.org/Bombardier-Dash-8-Q400_p_78.html%3famp=1

rickair7777
08-11-2018, 04:23 PM
Yeah I do think you are kidding about the polygraphs because that would be illegal, purpletoolbox

It's only illegal until congress says it's legal. No small number of government employees are subject to them.

But all that said I think this will have minimal impact for most of us. This could have happened just as easily at any GA field, it's not really airline specific circumstances, and it's happened before. And nobody else got hurt.

rickair7777
08-11-2018, 04:26 PM
Imagine KCM gone tomorrow.
Imagine having to go through recurring psych and polygraph tests. (Think I'm kidding??)
Imagine no more jumpseating.
Imagine the politicians demanding planes that can be controlled from the ground in case of an emergency. How long do you think until your job is gone completely.


All that costs money. And I hope most of us would have the cojones to take a couple weeks off in protest if ludicrous bureaucratic sanctions were imposed on pilots for something a regional ground employee did.

rickair7777
08-11-2018, 04:29 PM
I know we think weíre all hot shots landing on the moon but flying an airplane (not to standards) isnít too hard.

Correct. But doing it to a high degree of safety, consistently, many times a day, for decades on end is just a bit harder. Your average GED or underwater-basket-weaver couldn't do it.

rickair7777
08-11-2018, 04:29 PM
I personally think we will see no repercussions on this from any government entity. Had this individual been a ďpilotĒ then we would have a totally different story on our hands.


x2
...................

Excargodog
08-11-2018, 04:31 PM
Yea, absolutely you make good points about the possible results of shooting an aircraft down. You can obviously shed more light on this with your background, how exactly are risk assessments made in cases like this?

If it had headed for P-51 it would have been taken out by any means necessary up to and including ramming. Last ditch would have been Stingers from the ground forces there I imagine. Otherwise, try to get it low over the Sound or over a sparsely populated area and take it out with 20mm if the guy doesn't respond PROMPTLY to orders.

But the problem - if you had someone seriously intent on doing damage - is we simply don't have anyone closer than McChord or PDX and they are on five minute strip alert. Assume it takes three minutes for the message to get to NORAD - and that's probably optimistic - and three minutes to get strapped in, spun up, and actually airborne. If the guy is nice enough to fly south and it's a fighter from McChord rather than Portland, that's one thing. But suppose he goes north - or for P-51? Do the math.

An Eagle can do 1500 knots - but not instantaneously and it probably would too if the guy were heading for P-51 - broken windows and civilian lacerations due to flying glass be damned from Gig Harbor to Silverdale be damned.

Would he catch him? Do the math. Old saying in the military, dates back to Napoleanic days . A stern chase is a long chase. Same goes for heavily populated areas of King County. Centurylink field? Safeco field? Even Husky Stadium? Hope nobody's got a home game.

Sound grim? Sorry. It isn't me. It's the math.

And just to avoid false assumptions, I never flew in the front seat of an Eagle, just the back. When I was in they didn't bother with waivers for excessive refractive error if you were a UPT candidate unless you were a zoomie or some wing commander's kid. They'd just send you to UNT and if you got selected for TAC air, stuff you in the back seat of a fighter to work radars, jammers, laser target designators, and other gizmos.

Of course navigators always were better at the math than your average fighter pilot.

Av8rPHX
08-11-2018, 04:34 PM
Although many folks on these forums call PC sims "useless video games", it doesn't surprise me at all with their current level of realism and simulation that someone putting in some wrench time would be able to get the props spinning and take to the skies...



https://www.google.com/amp/store.x-plane.org/Bombardier-Dash-8-Q400_p_78.html%3famp=1



Heck even back when I played FS2004 I bought some add on software which had a fairly "detailed" CRJ/Airbus/Boeing cockpits and checklists/flows to follow to start the "plane". The visuals are nothing like they are now,but the premise was there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rickair7777
08-11-2018, 04:36 PM
Although many folks on these forums call PC sims "useless video games", it doesn't surprise me at all with their current level of realism and simulation that someone putting in some wrench time would be able to get the props spinning and take to the skies...

https://www.google.com/amp/store.x-plane.org/Bombardier-Dash-8-Q400_p_78.html%3famp=1

Only one step removed from FTD.

Excargodog
08-11-2018, 04:37 PM
It's only illegal until congress says it's legal. No small number of government employees are subject to them.


Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. But effective? Not very. I used to get one every six months. Always tried to bet the guy I could lie to him on at least one question in the calibration (early part of the session) without him being able to tell which one. After buying me two bottles if Jeremiah in the first year, he stopped betting.

I always loved the question, "Have you ever stolen anything OTHER THAN USUAL GOVERNMENT PILFERAGE?"
:)

rickair7777
08-11-2018, 04:46 PM
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. But effective? Not very. I used to get one every six months. Always tried to bet the guy I could lie to him on at least one question in the calibration (early part of the session) without him being able to tell which one. After buying me two bottles if Jeremiah in the first year, he stopped betting.

I always loved the question, "Have you ever stolen anything OTHER THAN USUAL GOVERNMENT PILFERAGE?"
:)

No, not very effective and I'm no fan.

They might trip up an idiot who has risk factors, or a bigger idiot contemplating/performing amateur espionage, but any pro can likely beat, even manipulate a routine polygraph.

Karnak
08-11-2018, 05:22 PM
When I was in they didn't bother with waivers for excessive refractive error if you were a UPT candidate unless you were a zoomie or some wing commander's kid. They'd just send you to UNT and if you got selected for TAC air, stuff you in the back seat of a fighter to work radars, jammers, laser target designators, and other gizmos.

Of course navigators always were better at the math than your average fighter pilot.

Never fly with a navigator that didn't wear glasses, otherwise you wouldn't know what the heck was wrong with him. :D

SilentLurker
08-11-2018, 05:30 PM
I just want to say bravo to the controllers who handled that incident/accident.

Praying for Horizon/itís employees.

Condolences to the family. Mental illness is a disease. So many should have spoken up. People need to speak up more.;




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fr8Thrust
08-11-2018, 05:55 PM
Hey at least he threw us a bone. Chalked it up to low wages and barriers to entry to become a mainline pilot. Gave us a good airshow too before retiring a dreaded Q400 early.

He was gonna do it anyway, at least he didnít take anyone with him. Remember this is the company VX employees are supposed to be thankful for. Another lose for team arrogant, I mean Ala5ka.

MachJ
08-11-2018, 06:16 PM
If it had headed for P-51 it would have been taken out by any means necessary up to and including ramming. Last ditch would have been Stingers from the ground forces there I imagine. Otherwise, try to get it low over the Sound or over a sparsely populated area and take it out with 20mm if the guy doesn't respond PROMPTLY to orders.

But the problem - if you had someone seriously intent on doing damage - is we simply don't have anyone closer than McChord or PDX and they are on five minute strip alert. Assume it takes three minutes for the message to get to NORAD - and that's probably optimistic - and three minutes to get strapped in, spun up, and actually airborne. If the guy is nice enough to fly south and it's a fighter from McChord rather than Portland, that's one thing. But suppose he goes north - or for P-51? Do the math.

An Eagle can do 1500 knots - but not instantaneously and it probably would too if the guy were heading for P-51 - broken windows and civilian lacerations due to flying glass be damned from Gig Harbor to Silverdale be damned.

Would he catch him? Do the math. Old saying in the military, dates back to Napoleanic days . A stern chase is a long chase. Same goes for heavily populated areas of King County. Centurylink field? Safeco field? Even Husky Stadium? Hope nobody's got a home game.

Sound grim? Sorry. It isn't me. It's the math.

And just to avoid false assumptions, I never flew in the front seat of an Eagle, just the back. When I was in they didn't bother with waivers for excessive refractive error if you were a UPT candidate unless you were a zoomie or some wing commander's kid. They'd just send you to UNT and if you got selected for TAC air, stuff you in the back seat of a fighter to work radars, jammers, laser target designators, and other gizmos.

Of course navigators always were better at the math than your average fighter pilot.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/860/976/94a.jpg

RadialGal
08-11-2018, 07:13 PM
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/man-who-took-horizon-air-plane-from-sea-tac-airport-was-quiet-well-liked-says-former-co-worker/

Of COURSE this ass hat is from Wasilla.

Nuttier than squirrel sh!t, but "a nice guy." Alaskan pilots should personally crap on this idiot's grave. I know it sounds cold but, Ug. Looser's like this moron and the German Psycho set us back years!

You kids get the hell off my lawn!

That is all,

RadialGal

Plaintalk
08-11-2018, 07:20 PM
Godspeed to the kid Richard, his family, friends and the Folks at Horizon.

Ray Red
08-11-2018, 07:59 PM
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/man-who-took-horizon-air-plane-from-sea-tac-airport-was-quiet-well-liked-says-former-co-worker/

Of COURSE this ass hat is from Wasilla.

Nuttier than squirrel sh!t, but "a nice guy." Alaskan pilots should personally crap on this idiot's grave. I know it sounds cold but, Ug. Looser's like this moron and the German Psycho set us back years!

You kids get the hell off my lawn!

That is all,

RadialGal

Who got the German Psycho nickname? Betty?

snackysmores
08-11-2018, 08:16 PM
Who got the German Psycho nickname? Betty?

Ehhhh, the German wings pilot...

BarrySeal
08-11-2018, 08:58 PM
POSSIBLY expect SOME sort of government required emotional/mental screening in the "all 121" new hire process.

Expect SOME POSSIBLE automatic "we ain't even considering that app" if prior DUI's or prior drug usage.

Polygraph is for "security sensitive" jobs, it is NOT impossible, beyond-the-imagination for Congress/the public, etc to ask for this.

Fully expect single pilot 121 cargo idea to be dead, no pun intended.

The Pilot Shortage just got shorter

Kung Fu Kenny
08-11-2018, 09:20 PM
He flew the plane better than most new hires

Lmao. Damn near chocked on my Biscoff when I read this..

cactusflyer
08-11-2018, 09:28 PM
POSSIBLY expect SOME sort of government required emotional/mental screening in the "all 121" new hire process.

Expect SOME POSSIBLE automatic "we ain't even considering that app" if prior DUI's or prior drug usage.

Polygraph is for "security sensitive" jobs, it is NOT impossible, beyond-the-imagination for Congress/the public, etc to ask for this.

Fully expect single pilot 121 cargo idea to be dead, no pun intended.

The Pilot Shortage just got shorter

Since he wasn't a pilot, I'd expect the TSA and Port of Seattle to **** a collective brick and come up with some absurd overreaction aimed at ramp workers (all ground employees must be accompanied by an armed monitor, or wear tracking collars fitted with explosives or something) that makes their jobs more difficult and doesn't actually solve anything.

ROFF
08-11-2018, 09:48 PM
Odd that he would mention low wages and boundaries to getting a pilot job in this hiring environment.

But then again he wasn't all there.

Pretty sad.

Wonder what the knee-jerk "security" measure will be?

All 29 year old males to be psychologically screened. That should prevent another one.

JohnBurke
08-11-2018, 09:55 PM
Although many folks on these forums call PC sims "useless video games", it doesn't surprise me at all with their current level of realism and simulation that someone putting in some wrench time would be able to get the props spinning and take to the skies...

https://www.google.com/amp/store.x-plane.org/Bombardier-Dash-8-Q400_p_78.html%3famp=1

The individual who stole the airplane was not a "wrench," and yes, the laptop computer games are that, games.

You added the "useless."

They are not simulators.

SonicFlyer
08-11-2018, 10:02 PM
Hopefully calmer heads will prevail.You must be new here....


And by "here" I mean "the US political system" :(

aiir
08-12-2018, 12:14 AM
The individual who stole the airplane was not a "wrench," and yes, the laptop computer games are that, games.

You added the "useless."

They are not simulators.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zame9Nh2VGQ


Well, game or not. These things go somewhat in depth, and it is wise to be aware that there are bad actors out there with these "tools". I think it's best to play it safe, and to always be vigilant.

WesternSkies
08-12-2018, 06:04 AM
Prayers for the soul of Mr. Rich, the loved ones grieving and all those similarly mentally affected as Rich who are struggling.

Hacker15e
08-12-2018, 07:34 AM
The individual who stole the airplane was not a "wrench,"


Someone with his name, and with an address in Kent, has an A&P according to the FAA Airman database.

Westcoastdude
08-12-2018, 07:55 AM
POSSIBLY expect SOME sort of government required emotional/mental screening in the "all 121" new hire process.

Expect SOME POSSIBLE automatic "we ain't even considering that app" if prior DUI's or prior drug usage.

Polygraph is for "security sensitive" jobs, it is NOT impossible, beyond-the-imagination for Congress/the public, etc to ask for this.

Fully expect single pilot 121 cargo idea to be dead, no pun intended.

The Pilot Shortage just got shorter

Nah guys with drug/alcohol problems that have first class medicals are usually in HIMS which requires strict monitoring and psychological evals yearly.

Donít post about stuff you do not know. Sure a airline would prefer to hire a guy with a clean slate, but how is someone that is being strictly monitored, has been to treatment, and goes to weekly AA meetings a threat over the closet alcoholic who beats his wife?

Excargodog
08-12-2018, 08:44 AM
Sure a airline would prefer to hire a guy with a clean slate, but how is someone that is being strictly monitored, has been to treatment, and goes to weekly AA meetings a threat over the closet alcoholic who beats his wife?

Because you have plausible deniability that the second guy has alcohol problems but not the first.

But seriously, it probably won't come at the individual airline level. Look for the FAA medical people to tighten up on everyone with any sort of psych/substance abuse problem. That's what they did after the German guy committed murder/suicide by airplane, even though he wasn't flying on a US medical. They respond to political heat just like any other federal bureaucracy.

Westcoastdude
08-12-2018, 08:49 AM
Because you have plausible deniability that the second guy has alcohol problems but not the first.

But seriously, it probably won't come at the individual airline level. Look for the FAA medical people to tighten up on everyone with any sort of psych/substance abuse problem. That's what they did after the German guy committed murder/suicide by airplane, even though he wasn't flying on a US medical. They respond to political heat just like any other federal bureaucracy.


What if Rich had no history of substance abuse/alcoholism? Not even considering the fact he was not a licensed pilot.

With that being said, the FAA is strict when it comes to any mental health/depression/bi polar. Itís near impossible to get a medical.

Excargodog
08-12-2018, 09:00 AM
What if Rich had no history of substance abuse/alcoholism? Not even considering the fact he was not a licensed pilot.

Doesn't affect the accuracy of what I posted. Apparently you haven't worked with the federal bureaucracy. It responds to political pressure equally well as logic.


With that being said, the FAA is strict when it comes to any mental health/depression/bi polar. Itís near impossible to get a medical.

Not exactly. Prior to the German Wings incident, the FAA medical people were getting a pretty active program going to approve people flying on the four antidepressants they considered least risky. After that, they throttled that program back substantially. They didn't ELIMINATE it, just throttled it back. I still think they believe it's the right way to go - I'm less certain of that than they are - but clearly they are more risk averse than they were immediately before the incident. I don't think that's because if better research, just afraid to take the risk of a similar incident in some one they had waivered because of the political heat they would take.

Even the HIMS program could be placed in peril by a few unfortunate events.

Westcoastdude
08-12-2018, 09:09 AM
Doesn't affect the accuracy of what I posted. Apparently you haven't worked with the federal bureaucracy. It responds to political pressure equally well as logic.




Not exactly. Prior to the German Wings incident, the FAA medical people were getting a pretty active program going to approve people flying on the four antidepressants they considered least risky. After that, they throttled that program back substantially. They didn't ELIMINATE it, just throttled it back. I still think they believe it's the right way to go - I'm less certain of that than they are - but clearly they are more risk averse than they were immediately before the incident. I don't think that's because if better research, just afraid to take the risk of a similar incident in some one they had waivered because of the political heat they would take.

Even the HIMS program could be placed in peril by a few unfortunate events.

I understand the political pressures and bureaucracy that follows after a incident.

I guess the point im trying to make is stricter psychological screenings/drug/substances screenings would not have prevented this. Would it prevent a future pilot that is authorized to be in the cockpit? Maybe. At that point itís only fair to screen all persons (including flight attendants- remember they have KCM and flight deck access) who pose a immediate threat to the safety and well being of commercial aviation.

Westcoastdude
08-12-2018, 09:17 AM
If the FAA wants to change medical requirements for airmen with certain disorders, anyone who can circumvent security and obtain a SIDA badge should also face more scrutiny.

And I believe thatís a fair statement.

snackysmores
08-12-2018, 09:46 AM
Didn't take long for Alaska PR to get almost every major news outlet to avoid mentioning 'Alaska' in any way. Everything I see is Horizon, this is the most recognition we've had in a long time.

It's like we're our own airline again.

kevbo
08-12-2018, 10:17 AM
The individual who stole the airplane was not a "wrench," and yes, the laptop computer games are that, games.

You added the "useless."

They are not simulators.

Maybe not but anyone under the wing is the same to everyone above it. Trying to raise a family in Seattle on what Horizon pays would qualify as mental illness all by itself. Maybe this guy finally realized the futility of his economic situation and cheap booze wasn't his thing.

Excargodog
08-12-2018, 10:17 AM
And I believe that’s a fair statement.

When has political pressure ever been about "fair"?

Was it fair that American citizens of Japanese ancestry were put in internment camps during WWII? Don't think so. Was it fair that minority candidates were given preferences in hiring and schooling, first in atonement for sins that may or may not have been perpetrated upon their ancestors and later - once that rationale was rejected - under the guise of 'diversity.'

Clearly not. I don't think "fair" really plays in this. Nor for that matter does science. In fact, the predictive value positive and negative for many assessments of psychiatric outcomes approximates 80%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336916/

If you are dealing with a population that is actually psychotic, two out of ten will be misdiagnosed as not at risk. But bad as that is, if you are dealing with a more normally distributed population, where perhaps at any given time 10% may have depression or substance abuse problems, then 18% (20% of the 90%) will be misdiagnosed as at risk when they aren't while 1.8% (20% of 2%) of the population will be judged to be not at risk when they in fact are.

So basically, for the 8.8% of people you would appropriately remove from safety sensitive duties with routine psych screenings, you must accept the fact that you will INAPPROPRIATELY remove twice that number of people not at risk. And yet you will still miss 20% of those who should be removed.

The sad fact is that psychiatry and psychological testing simply don't have the sensitivity OR specificity to do a good job of screening any but the sickest if patients. And there is no readily apparent way to increase the sensitivity without decreasing the specificity (and hence disqualifying even more people who would never have caused a problem anyway).

None of which is fair. The tools available are really too imprecise to be fair. That doesn't mean that politics may not demand they be used anyway though.

Fleet Warp
08-12-2018, 10:19 AM
Didn't take long for Alaska PR to get almost every major news outlet to avoid mentioning 'Alaska' in any way. Everything I see is Horizon, this is the most recognition we've had in a long time.

It's like we're our own airline again.

Heart goes out to the employees and families at Horizon, and the family of the deceased. I can't imagine what y'all must be feeling about now.

Ray Red
08-12-2018, 10:50 AM
Anyone remember a few years ago the guy that was killed in Syria fighting for ISIS? The one who previously worked for DGS in MSP with a SIDA badge and didnít have to go through security at work? Nothing changed after that and I donít expect any substantial changes (especially for pilots) after this.

FollowMe
08-12-2018, 11:12 AM
Anyone remember a few years ago the guy that was killed in Syria fighting for ISIS? The one who previously worked for DGS in MSP with a SIDA badge and didnít have to go through security at work? Nothing changed after that and I donít expect any substantial changes (especially for pilots) after this.

What happens in a faraway land doesnít really register for the American public. What happens in SEA does. Not saying anything will change, but the two incidents are nowhere near each other in terms of public perception.

Fr8Thrust
08-12-2018, 02:25 PM
Didn't take long for Alaska PR to get almost every major news outlet to avoid mentioning 'Alaska' in any way. Everything I see is Horizon, this is the most recognition we've had in a long time.

It's like we're our own airline again.

AS deserves every bit of the fallout here. Thankfully the video footage all say ďAlaska Q400Ē.

AYLflyer
08-12-2018, 03:35 PM
Kinda surprised at some of the guys in here saying that computer sims aren't 'sims' and are just games. While they're not a Level C or D sim they are extremely realistic when it comes to flight panels and instrument flying.

I was a total flight sim nerd when I was a kid and using 3rd party add-ons for flight sim, I could have had a 747 powered up and taxiied out/airborne no problem thanks to some of the 3rd party stuff I downloaded and messed with. Every switch worked and every downloadable file came with a manufacturer checklist.

Hell after a few years of not using flight sim, I got back onto it when hired into my first turbine airplane and I used a 3rd party add on prior to going to training and I sailed through it. While some guys were looking for where the start switch was, I was breezing through flows, knew where every light switch, pressurization knob and radio knob was. It was like I had already been in the actual airplane. This was 10+ years ago so I can't even imagine what the flight sim community has access to now.

BarrySeal
08-12-2018, 03:39 PM
Nah guys with drug/alcohol problems that have first class medicals are usually in HIMS which requires strict monitoring and psychological evals yearly.

Donít post about stuff you do not know. Sure a airline would prefer to hire a guy with a clean slate, but how is someone that is being strictly monitored, has been to treatment, and goes to weekly AA meetings a threat over the closet alcoholic who beats his wife?


Don't post about stuff you do not know

Westcoastdude
08-12-2018, 03:51 PM
Don't post about stuff you do not know

Hahaha okay buddy. Iíve been through the process. Have you? Do you even know what HIMS stands for?

BobbyLeeSwagger
08-12-2018, 05:02 PM
Hahaha okay buddy. Iíve been through the process. Have you? Do you even know what HIMS stands for?

Hamster Intervention & Motivation Study?

JohnBurke
08-12-2018, 09:42 PM
Someone with his name, and with an address in Kent, has an A&P according to the FAA Airman database.

There are a dozen or so with my name too. Big deal. They're not me.

If this was a mechanic, why was he a ramper? And a baker?

Prayers for the soul of Mr. Rich, the loved ones grieving and all those similarly mentally affected as Rich who are struggling.

Good god. He planned and committed a criminal act. Enough of the sympathy and love fest for this jackwad.

He didn't simply wander into the airplane, get in and go fly. That would not be possible. He planned for, and prepared for this event, and executed it (and ultimately himself).

We may be deeply grateful that he died a in a fireball on a remote island, rather than the pearl jam concert that was in play at the time, or any of the other venues and places filled with thousands of people.

kevbo
08-12-2018, 10:47 PM
There are a dozen or so with my name too. Big deal. They're not me.

If this was a mechanic, why was he a ramper? And a baker?



Good god. He planned and committed a criminal act. Enough of the sympathy and love fest for this jackwad.

He didn't simply wander into the airplane, get in and go fly. That would not be possible. He planned for, and prepared for this event, and executed it (and ultimately himself).

We may be deeply grateful that he died a in a fireball on a remote island, rather than the pearl jam concert that was in play at the time, or any of the other venues and places filled with thousands of people.
See, I told you A&Ps are dime a dozen! He may have just watched that movie "Falling Down" and found inspiration. If he returned the aircraft undamaged, it would have been only joy riding.

JohnBurke
08-12-2018, 11:03 PM
The name who posted after me, I've blocked. I don't read his posts, given his obsession with trashing the aviation maintenance profession. A failed mechanic, that seems to be all he does, enter threads to post irrelevant attacks on aviation mechanics and the profession in general.

No doubt he's done it again. Anyone?

Broncofan
08-13-2018, 04:03 AM
The name who posted after me, I've blocked. I don't read his posts, given his obsession with trashing the aviation maintenance profession. A failed mechanic, that seems to be all he does, enter threads to post irrelevant attacks on aviation mechanics and the profession in general.

No doubt he's done it again. Anyone?

You ask this every time after he posts. Either dont worry about what he posts, or unblock him to see what he says.

Flightcap
08-13-2018, 06:08 AM
Flight simulator games aren't perfect. But they are pretty good at teaching the basics of how to operate an airplane. Even the stock models from Microsoft in Flight Sim 2004 were effective. I walked into my first student pilot lesson knowing how to start, taxi, take off, perform slow flight, steep turns, stalls, and the basics of a traffic pattern. Granted, a C152 is nowhere near as complex as a Q400. But there are third party developers who make high fidelity models that can be added to Microsoft Flight Sim. Pair it up with this guy's knowledge of the aircraft from being on the tow crew and I have no doubt he could have learned everything he needed to know on his PC at home.

Airhoss
08-13-2018, 06:14 AM
But....he could do one hell of a barrel roll!

If I were to score that roll on 1-10 IAC scale Iíd give him a HZ. Hard Zero..

He busted the hard deck. Barrel rolls below the hard deck donít count. ;)

rickair7777
08-13-2018, 06:33 AM
Flight simulator games aren't perfect. But they are pretty good at teaching the basics of how to operate an airplane. Even the stock models from Microsoft in Flight Sim 2004 were effective. I walked into my first student pilot lesson knowing how to start, taxi, take off, perform slow flight, steep turns, stalls, and the basics of a traffic pattern. Granted, a C152 is nowhere near as complex as a Q400. But there are third party developers who make high fidelity models that can be added to Microsoft Flight Sim. Pair it up with this guy's knowledge of the aircraft from being on the tow crew and I have no doubt he could have learned everything he needed to know on his PC at home.

Yup.
......

Lufthansa
08-13-2018, 06:44 AM
Showed up for B737 recurrent simulator training at the Alaska Airlines training center. The company has put locks on the flight simulator doors requiring three person verification before proceeding.....
What's up with that! :D

TroutBum
08-13-2018, 07:07 AM
Flight simulator games aren't perfect. But they are pretty good at teaching the basics of how to operate an airplane. Even the stock models from Microsoft in Flight Sim 2004 were effective. I walked into my first student pilot lesson knowing how to start, taxi, take off, perform slow flight, steep turns, stalls, and the basics of a traffic pattern. Granted, a C152 is nowhere near as complex as a Q400. But there are third party developers who make high fidelity models that can be added to Microsoft Flight Sim. Pair it up with this guy's knowledge of the aircraft from being on the tow crew and I have no doubt he could have learned everything he needed to know on his PC at home.

Newer stuff like X Plane 11 is even more sophisticated. On some of the more elaborate models, all of the switches are functional, complete with a fully functional FMS. I have no doubt either that spending some time on a PC was all he needed.

rickair7777
08-13-2018, 08:49 AM
Nevermind.
......

Count Dracula
08-13-2018, 09:16 AM
If I were to score that roll on 1-10 IAC scale Iíd give him a HZ. Hard Zero..



He busted the hard deck. Barrel rolls below the hard deck donít count. ;)



I would give him a 10 on the ass pucker factor though....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kevbo
08-13-2018, 09:33 AM
I would give him a 10 on the ass pucker factor though....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It would have been an air show 10 if he kept the roll axial into a split-s and recovered that low. I wonder if the elevator hit its stop on that pullout.

snackysmores
08-13-2018, 12:01 PM
It would have been an air show 10 if he kept the roll axial into a split-s and recovered that low. I wonder if the elevator hit its stop on that pullout.

At empty weight I'd doubt it. The controls are also very heavy and have artificial feel to keep one from over controlling. Once you get above 170kts the outboard spoilers deactivate as well and you have to put a lot more force to get it to turn.

At max weight this thing is an absolute pig and not fun to hand fly at all (at least for me)

Galaxy5
08-13-2018, 01:07 PM
At empty weight I'd doubt it. The controls are also very heavy and have artificial feel to keep one from over controlling. Once you get above 170kts the outboard spoilers deactivate as well and you have to put a lot more force to get it to turn.

At max weight this thing is an absolute pig and not fun to hand fly at all (at least for me)

I didnít think it was all bad from a flying perspective, but then again I never rolled it and have the benefit of growing fondness over separation from that heap.

trip
08-13-2018, 01:24 PM
These “games” are nothing like what we remember as flight sims. Incredibly realistic, then throw in a stick and rudder with thrust quadrant and go fly formation with your squadron buds or practice air-air refueling! You can fly with traditional screens or VR headsets.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/

Jump to 7:00 min mark for the engine start sequence on the hornet.
http://youtu.be/SaMBmQxzzPQ

Grumble
08-13-2018, 03:06 PM
If I were to score that roll on 1-10 IAC scale Iíd give him a HZ. Hard Zero..

He busted the hard deck. Barrel rolls below the hard deck donít count. ;)

Not only that but he finished 90 off his original heading and almost pulled the wings off.

JohnBurke
08-13-2018, 03:18 PM
You ask this every time after he posts. Either dont worry about what he posts, or unblock him to see what he says.

It's rhetorical. It may have been too subtle for you.

mightyflyer
08-13-2018, 03:55 PM
I wish they'd have shot him down. If only to say "you will die" if you ever try this stupid stunt... Sharing the rambling audio only makes this guy a media darling. Copycats are a potential problem. Expect our flightlines to start to look like prisons.

Shack: https://www.yahoo.com/gma/pilot-dies-plane-crashes-utah-home-couple-inside-174907984--abc-news-topstories.html

Westcoastdude
08-13-2018, 04:00 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/pilot-dies-plane-crashes-utah-home-couple-inside-174907984--abc-news-topstories.html

Guy beats up his wife, flies into his own house hours later.

Wonder how many DUIs he had 🤔

amcnd
08-13-2018, 04:06 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/pilot-dies-plane-crashes-utah-home-couple-inside-174907984--abc-news-topstories.html

Guy beats up his wife, flies into his own house hours later.

Wonder how many DUIs he had 🤔

Heard he flew for Endeavor at one point... (years ago)

Westcoastdude
08-13-2018, 04:16 PM
Yeah. In all seriousness letís hope we do not see a trend here.

USMCFLYR
08-13-2018, 04:23 PM
These ďgamesĒ are nothing like what we remember as flight sims. Incredibly realistic, then throw in a stick and rudder with thrust quadrant and go fly formation with your squadron buds or practice air-air refueling! You can fly with traditional screens or VR headsets.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/

Jump to 7:00 min mark for the engine start sequence on the hornet.
http://youtu.be/SaMBmQxzzPQ
That is truly pretty accurate. Impressive!
I think I might have cracked my iPhone screen protector trying to punch out that Master Caution at the beginning and stack and rack those CAUTIONS :D
And who the heck in listening to the TCN ident!?
:confused::eek:

USMCFLYR
08-13-2018, 04:24 PM
It's rhetorical. It may have been too subtle for you.

Not really - more like childish on your part :rolleyes:

Hetman
08-13-2018, 04:25 PM
If I were to score that roll on 1-10 IAC scale Iíd give him a HZ. Hard Zero..

He busted the hard deck. Barrel rolls below the hard deck donít count. ;)

Looked to me that he just fell out of an aileron roll. No skill required to do that.

Airhoss
08-13-2018, 07:13 PM
Looked to me that he just fell out of an aileron roll. No skill required to do that.

Pretty much exactly what he did.....

Airhoss
08-13-2018, 07:17 PM
It would have been an air show 10 if he kept the roll axial into a split-s and recovered that low. I wonder if the elevator hit its stop on that pullout.

How much G can a Q-400 take? Iím pretty impressed that he didnít break it in flight.

2StgTurbine
08-13-2018, 07:22 PM
How much G can a Q-400 take?

It is a standard transport category aircraft, so it wasn't designed to take any more load than a 737.

Iím pretty impressed that he didnít break it in flight.

Who is to say it didn't? I would be that the fuselage and elevator panels had some pretty big wrinkles in them after the pull-out.

Airhoss
08-13-2018, 07:39 PM
It is a standard transport category aircraft, so it wasn't designed to take any more load than a 737.



Who is to say it didn't? I would be that the fuselage and elevator panels had some pretty big wrinkles in them after the pull-out.

Iím fully aware of the load limits of a transport category aircraft. Just wondering what the ultimate load limit for that airframe is.

Iím guessing she was twisted and wrinkled before impact.

snackysmores
08-13-2018, 08:17 PM
Well on paper it's gonna be 2.5, I bet she could take 4, maybe more.

vroll1800
08-13-2018, 08:58 PM
Iím fully aware of the load limits of a transport category aircraft. Just wondering what the ultimate load limit for that airframe is.

Iím guessing she was twisted and wrinkled before impact.

I'm particularly interested in seeing the flight recorder recovered, and the airspeed/ G load readouts of his stunts. (I'm reluctant to call them maneuvers.)

snackysmores
08-13-2018, 10:17 PM
I'm particularly interested in seeing the flight recorder recovered, and the airspeed/ G load readouts of his stunts. (I'm reluctant to call them maneuvers.)

The FBI is in possession of them, depends if they release it or not.

Cruz Clearance
08-14-2018, 12:16 AM
Are not NTSB final reports normally public record? (9/11 is somehow forever protected by FBI)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fleet Warp
08-14-2018, 12:29 AM
(9/11 is somehow forever protected by FBI

That's because 9/11 was an inside job. And all the evidence was destroyed.

PerfInit
08-14-2018, 05:46 AM
Since ďAir PiracyĒ was involved, FBI is the lead.

tunes
08-14-2018, 06:03 AM
that's because 9/11 was an inside job. And all the evidence was destroyed.

jet fuel doesnt melt steel beams

tomgoodman
08-14-2018, 06:11 AM
That's because 9/11 was an inside job. And all the evidence was destroyed.

Silence, apprentice Bilderberger! Your Bavarian-Reptilian Overlords are not amused by this leak. :mad:

TroutBum
08-14-2018, 07:51 AM
How much G can a Q-400 take? Iím pretty impressed that he didnít break it in flight.

Agreed. Now if he had done a proper barrel roll . . .

Watch Bob Hoover Pour Tea While Doing A Barrel Roll | Boldmethod (http://www.boldmethod.com/blog/video/2016/10/watch-bob-hoover-pour-tea-while-doing-a-barrel-roll/)

2StgTurbine
08-14-2018, 07:59 AM
jet fuel doesnt melt steel beams

A student in an entry-level engineering course could prove you wrong. You should stick to flying planes.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/

takingmessages
08-14-2018, 08:12 AM
Big boys roll too... :rolleyes:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bvhov0nxPQ


But I am impressed of how the guy recovered the botched roll.
Been there done that.
In the botched roll, not the Q400!


Sad human story... :(
Not so much let him rest in peace as help the family/friends reach some peace....

rickair7777
08-14-2018, 08:13 AM
That's because 9/11 was an inside job. And all the evidence was destroyed.

jet fuel doesnt melt steel beams


https://southcarolina1670.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/duck-amuck.jpg

Airhoss
08-14-2018, 09:00 AM
jet fuel doesnt melt steel beams


Are you dating Rossie?;)

tunes
08-14-2018, 09:01 AM
A student in an entry-level engineering course could prove you wrong. You should stick to flying planes.



https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/



I see your sarcasm detector is completely inop......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fleet Warp
08-14-2018, 12:23 PM
A student in an entry-level engineering course could prove you wrong. You should stick to flying planes.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/

Jet fuel can't cut steel beams at 45 degree angles, thermite can. An uncontrolled demolition doesn't have explosions from the bottom to top in a perfectly controlled manner. A building collapse from the middle doesn't fall straight down perfectly on its own foot print.

Use your thinking muscle

2StgTurbine
08-14-2018, 12:27 PM
While I would love to teach critical thinking & scientific literacy to someone with an ax to grind, I have some chemtrails to spray

Droopy
08-14-2018, 12:32 PM
While I would love to teach critical thinking & scientific literacy to someone with an ax to grind, I have some chemtrails to spray

And it's so much easier to lay down a proper grid spray over the flat earth. We all know the chemtrails we see every day would be curved if the world wasn't flat...

Fleet Warp
08-14-2018, 12:32 PM
While I would love to teach critical thinking & scientific literacy to someone with an ax to grind, I have some chemtrails to spray

So you understand then that there is only one logical scientific explanation of recorded facts. It was a false flag. Also your chemtrails argument is reductive and deflectory.

Fleet Warp
08-14-2018, 12:34 PM
And it's so much easier to lay down a proper grid spray over the flat earth. We all know the chemtrails we see every day would be curved if the world wasn't flat...

This. ;)


Filler

rickair7777
08-14-2018, 12:48 PM
Jet fuel can't cut steel beams at 45 degree angles, thermite can. An uncontrolled demolition doesn't have explosions from the bottom to top in a perfectly controlled manner. A building collapse from the middle doesn't fall straight down perfectly on its own foot print.

Use your thinking muscle

The towers didn't "fall over", they were crushed from above by their own upper floors, which started moving downwards as the steel frame softened. Straight down is the path of least resistance, it's not liking tipping your ladder over, there's a tremendous amount of inertia involved, and no obvious massive force pushing the buildings sideways... thus they go straight down. The only massive force involved was gravity... can you guess the vector of that?

Use your engineering degree, not your GED.

tomgoodman
08-14-2018, 12:58 PM
A building collapse from the middle doesn't fall straight down perfectly on its own foot print.

Somebody faked that video in order to.....hide the decline! :p

Airhoss
08-14-2018, 01:24 PM
Jet fuel can't cut steel beams at 45 degree angles, thermite can. An uncontrolled demolition doesn't have explosions from the bottom to top in a perfectly controlled manner. A building collapse from the middle doesn't fall straight down perfectly on its own foot print.

Use your thinking muscle

Thatís why they built the underground head quarters for the NWO under DIA.

kevbo
08-14-2018, 01:47 PM
Somebody faked that video in order to.....hide the decline! :p

Any high aspect cantilever structure has to be VERY strong at the root. There should have been quite a stump left. See if you can kick the top of a pine tree and get it to colapse all the way to dirt.

WyoMech
08-14-2018, 02:29 PM
This thread went full retard.

Fleet Warp
08-14-2018, 03:03 PM
This thread went full retard.

No u.

Filler

tomgoodman
08-14-2018, 03:39 PM
Any high aspect cantilever structure has to be VERY strong at the root. There should have been quite a stump left. See if you can kick the top of a pine tree and get it to colapse all the way to dirt.

I told them to use a pine tree, but Nooooo! :p

SonicFlyer
08-14-2018, 05:01 PM
This thread went full retard.

You must be new here

TransWorld
08-14-2018, 05:30 PM
I told them to use a pine tree, but Nooooo! :p

George Brett used pine tar.

2StgTurbine
08-14-2018, 06:00 PM
I told them to use a pine tree, but Nooooo! :p

HA! That is perfect! :D

Excargodog
08-15-2018, 06:54 AM
A building collapse from the middle doesn't fall straight down perfectly on its own foot print.


History says differently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyline_Towers_collapse

https://youtu.be/98Rd1v1pOrQ

snackysmores
08-15-2018, 12:11 PM
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kgUDbvKYbWk/maxresdefault.jpg

Fleet Warp
08-15-2018, 12:36 PM
https://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/c2a5cac0-505e-4fb4-8485-a4e09c0d3ba4/69ee6ff0-b052-494a-90f4-99adfe87e3de.jpg

Turbosina
08-15-2018, 12:57 PM
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kgUDbvKYbWk/maxresdefault.jpg

Looks like more than a few pilots I know...

RadialGal
08-15-2018, 03:44 PM
Looks like more than a few pilots I know...


Amen to that!

Get your tinfoil hats kids.......it's about to get interesting!

PS, The name "fleet warp" says it all.......says it all. Unless he's gone to plaid!

RadialGal

tunes
08-15-2018, 07:23 PM
Jet fuel can't cut steel beams at 45 degree angles, thermite can. An uncontrolled demolition doesn't have explosions from the bottom to top in a perfectly controlled manner. A building collapse from the middle doesn't fall straight down perfectly on its own foot print.

Use your thinking muscle

Jesus i was joking but you really are serious

2StgTurbine
08-15-2018, 07:39 PM
Jesus i was joking but you really are serious

And that's why sarcasm doesn't work on the internet. There are literally people who think the earth is flat...

TransWorld
08-15-2018, 07:47 PM
And that's why sarcasm doesn't work on the internet. There are literally people who think the earth is flat...

It makes it easier to spread Chem Trails when the earth is flat. Much more complicated when the earth is round.

Fleet Warp
08-15-2018, 08:30 PM
Jesus i was joking but you really are serious

Believe whatever truth makes you happiest bro. :)

cactusflyer
08-15-2018, 09:40 PM
And that's why sarcasm doesn't work on the internet. There are literally people who think the earth is flat...

Obviously it's flat. That way the Lizard People can hide under it.

JamesNoBrakes
08-15-2018, 10:05 PM
Which brings me to my next point, don't smoke crack kids.

snackysmores
08-15-2018, 11:25 PM
And that's why sarcasm doesn't work on the internet. There are literally people who think the earth is flat...

Easy to believe when you fly a Q400

sf340b
08-16-2018, 05:06 AM
23 pages that prove the chemtrail dust has worked pretty good. We have achieved an almost perfect 100% score of type rated pilots actually believing a Twitter/YouTube/CNN propaganda feed proclaiming a keyboard commando can man handle a part 25 bird better than their years and years of experience, training, checking, and line flying.

****?

Next thread in line: ďI saw Santa clause from 370 and yes, Rudolph has a red noseĒ......

Fleet Warp
08-16-2018, 07:32 AM
Next thread in line: ďI saw Santa clause from 370 and yes, Rudolph has a red noseĒ......

Bro, Rudolph's nose is only red when it lights up to guide the sleigh at night.:cool:

TransWorld
08-16-2018, 07:53 AM
Bro, Rudolph's nose is only red when it lights up to guide the sleigh at night.:cool:

Did Santa have Rudolphís nose retrofitted with GPS and Doppler Radar? I think I saw that someplace but cannot find it now, been trying to Google it.

DashAviator
08-16-2018, 08:50 AM
Did Santa have Rudolphís nose retrofitted with GPS and Doppler Radar? I think I saw that someplace but cannot find it now, been trying to Google it.

No, it's been upgraded to ADS-B.

Dougdrvr
08-16-2018, 09:01 AM
Obviously it's flat. That way the Lizard People can hide under it.

C'mon ......if the world was flat, the cats would have knocked everything off already.

FollowMe
08-16-2018, 10:14 AM
Which brings me to my next point, don't smoke crack kids.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-08-2016/E_ZbHF.gif

Fr8Thrust
08-16-2018, 02:25 PM
http://i63.tinypic.com/wwkgtc.jpg

TransWorld
08-16-2018, 05:05 PM
That is rich! Beer came out my nose!!

Excargodog
08-16-2018, 05:57 PM
Which brings me to my next point, don't smoke crack kids.


No kidding....

RadialGal
08-16-2018, 06:26 PM
I nearly ****ed myself.....nearly

PS, what happened to tinfoil kidbert?

RadialGal

Mesabah
08-16-2018, 07:09 PM
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kgUDbvKYbWk/maxresdefault.jpg
They're turning the frogs gay

OneMore
08-17-2018, 08:57 AM
This thread went full retard.

Never go full retard.

Grumble
08-17-2018, 09:49 AM
Any high aspect cantilever structure has to be VERY strong at the root. There should have been quite a stump left. See if you can kick the top of a pine tree and get it to colapse all the way to dirt.

A pine tree doesnít use an exoskeleton to support its weight. The towers were supported by the exterior structure.

The conspiracy theories are fun to read though, along with this entire thread.

Singlecoil
08-18-2018, 07:48 PM
Interesting take on this from another ramper.
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/08/17/30824665/i-worked-with-richard-russell-at-horizon-air-and-i-understand-why-he-did-what-he-did

Paid2fly
08-18-2018, 08:56 PM
Interesting take on this from another ramper.
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/08/17/30824665/i-worked-with-richard-russell-at-horizon-air-and-i-understand-why-he-did-what-he-did






Lots of truth in that article!

fenix1
08-19-2018, 08:36 PM
George Brett went almost as postal as Beebo when his pine tar placement earned him an early shower that fateful night in Yankee Stadium - arguably the most angry anything baby blue has ever been.

One manís opinion, but your original Brett comment was an underrated gem that deserved more attention brought to it!

George Brett used pine tar.

kevbo
08-20-2018, 12:21 AM
A pine tree doesn’t use an exoskeleton to support its weight. The towers were supported by the exterior structure.

The conspiracy theories are fun to read though, along with this entire thread.

Believe it or not, there was a substantial spine that was deeply rooted and somehow, it vanished. "Conspiracy Theory" usually means "Unspoken Truth".

kevbo
08-21-2018, 02:17 PM
Anyone got any tinfoil?

3865

RadialGal

That's right, the fools quickly moved on!



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