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View Full Version : Attitude


UncreativeUser
08-13-2018, 04:27 PM
Well, he is on the 145 and based in new york.

This.

I've been looking forward to coming to Envoy for about a year or so now after finally reaching minimums I'm going into the next class as a cadet. Usually, I just read posts but now I am having second thoughts about coming here because there are fellow pilots on here that decide to post threads bashing some guy with a vlog.

Is this a joke? I really would like to know what it is that makes the pilots on this particular forum so salty about everything, it's very off-putting coming to an airline I'm excited to join just to find pilot's continuously complaining about everything. I don't see this even see this kind of behavior on Mesa's forums, it's pathetic.

I'm not saying that everything about Envoy is peachy perfect, nor am I saying that I am an always "positive vibes" kind of guy. But this kind of negative bull**** has to stop. From what I hear in person, Envoy is still considered a top-tier regional.

It is evident by the fact that we started a thread bashing someone with hopes and dreams to fly for the airlines, just like the rest of us. It is evident that we have a program like a flow that doesn't work in their favor because it is not quick enough. The flow thing isn't even designed to be your only hope to getting into the majors yet there are pilots on here that bash it probably because they can't get in without it (which is fine but respect the process).

Writing on this forum won't do much, I have listed concerns to management and they actually tend to listen to ideas if you take the time to let them know. That is one of the strongest ways to change a company besides complaining on the sidelines.

As to that thread, yes I have met Swayne and he is not as much of a douche as I initially thought he was. But I still would have posted this anyways even if he was.

If there are issues, let's work together as a team. I understand the need to vent, but we can always think together and generate ideas that can make Envoy better than it is instead of getting behind a keyboard and venting to people who are just as powerless as I am to change anything.


Whiskey4
08-13-2018, 04:52 PM
This.

I've been looking forward to coming to Envoy for about a year or so now after finally reaching minimums I'm going into the next class as a cadet. Usually, I just read posts but now I am having second thoughts about coming here because there are fellow pilots on here that decide to post threads bashing some guy with a vlog.

Is this a joke? I really would like to know what it is that makes the pilots on this particular forum so salty about everything, it's very off-putting coming to an airline I'm excited to join just to find pilot's continuously complaining about everything. I don't see this even see this kind of behavior on Mesa's forums, it's pathetic.

I'm not saying that everything about Envoy is peachy perfect, nor am I saying that I am an always "positive vibes" kind of guy. But this kind of negative bull**** has to stop. From what I hear in person, Envoy is still considered a top-tier regional.

It is evident by the fact that we started a thread bashing someone with hopes and dreams to fly for the airlines, just like the rest of us. It is evident that we have a program like a flow that doesn't work in their favor because it is not quick enough. The flow thing isn't even designed to be your only hope to getting into the majors yet there are pilots on here that bash it probably because they can't get in without it (which is fine but respect the process).

Writing on this forum won't do much, I have listed concerns to management and they actually tend to listen to ideas if you take the time to let them know. That is one of the strongest ways to change a company besides complaining on the sidelines.

As to that thread, yes I have met Swayne and he is not as much of a douche as I initially thought he was. But I still would have posted this anyways even if he was.

If there are issues, let's work together as a team. I understand the need to vent, but we can always think together and generate ideas that can make Envoy better than it is instead of getting behind a keyboard and venting to people who are just as powerless as I am to change anything.

Envoyís fine, bud. Youíll enjoy flying with the crews (barring the few usual types that every airline has floating around). A lot of what you see on here is keyboard cowboy stuff that these guys would never say in person. A couple of beverages and a mobile device make the ďbestĒ come out in some people.

Also, the entitled bunch tends to hit the forums. They feel like everyone owes them something because reserve lasted more than a month, they didnít get the plane they wanted, flow is too long for their taste, etc. Always the same b.s.

That said, I have also gotten some pretty useful info from the forums. It just depends which way the wind is blowing that day.

Welcome to the airlines! Enjoy it because it sure beats being a CFI. I never worked harder than when I was flight instructing. Envoy felt like a vacation.

Oh, and theyíll complain that Cadets shouldnít get top pick in class. Good luck! ;D

jonrayburn
08-13-2018, 04:57 PM
This.

I've been looking forward to coming to Envoy for about a year or so now after finally reaching minimums I'm going into the next class as a cadet. Usually, I just read posts but now I am having second thoughts about coming here because there are fellow pilots on here that decide to post threads bashing some guy with a vlog.

Is this a joke? I really would like to know what it is that makes the pilots on this particular forum so salty about everything, it's very off-putting coming to an airline I'm excited to join just to find pilot's continuously complaining about everything. I don't see this even see this kind of behavior on Mesa's forums, it's pathetic.

I'm not saying that everything about Envoy is peachy perfect, nor am I saying that I am an always "positive vibes" kind of guy. But this kind of negative bull**** has to stop. From what I hear in person, Envoy is still considered a top-tier regional.

It is evident by the fact that we started a thread bashing someone with hopes and dreams to fly for the airlines, just like the rest of us. It is evident that we have a program like a flow that doesn't work in their favor because it is not quick enough. The flow thing isn't even designed to be your only hope to getting into the majors yet there are pilots on here that bash it probably because they can't get in without it (which is fine but respect the process).

Writing on this forum won't do much, I have listed concerns to management and they actually tend to listen to ideas if you take the time to let them know. That is one of the strongest ways to change a company besides complaining on the sidelines.

As to that thread, yes I have met Swayne and he is not as much of a douche as I initially thought he was. But I still would have posted this anyways even if he was.

If there are issues, let's work together as a team. I understand the need to vent, but we can always think together and generate ideas that can make Envoy better than it is instead of getting behind a keyboard and venting to people who are just as powerless as I am to change anything.

Iíd suggest maybe going to XJT or TSA. They have all the ďpositive vibesĒ these days. ;)


WesternSkies
08-13-2018, 05:33 PM
I have met Swayne and he is not as much of a douche as I initially thought

I think you lost your message.

Castle Bravo
08-13-2018, 05:40 PM
This will be good...:D

wiz5422
08-13-2018, 05:52 PM
You seem more like Skywest material.....maybe you should reconsider coming here.

UncreativeUser
08-13-2018, 06:00 PM
I think you lost your message.

How's that

EmbaeDriver
08-13-2018, 06:04 PM
TLTR

Filler

UncreativeUser
08-13-2018, 06:04 PM
Envoyís fine, bud. Youíll enjoy flying with the crews (barring the few usual types that every airline has floating around). A lot of what you see on here is keyboard cowboy stuff that these guys would never say in person. A couple of beverages and a mobile device make the ďbestĒ come out in some people.

Also, the entitled bunch tends to hit the forums. They feel like everyone owes them something because reserve lasted more than a month, they didnít get the plane they wanted, flow is too long for their taste, etc. Always the same b.s.

That said, I have also gotten some pretty useful info from the forums. It just depends which way the wind is blowing that day.

Welcome to the airlines! Enjoy it because it sure beats being a CFI. I never worked harder than when I was flight instructing. Envoy felt like a vacation.

Oh, and theyíll complain that Cadets shouldnít get top pick in class. Good luck! ;D

Thank you, thats nice to hear, I'm looking forawrd to it!

UncreativeUser
08-13-2018, 06:05 PM
You seem more like Skywest material.....maybe you should reconsider coming here.

Hmm why is that?

Paid2fly
08-13-2018, 06:49 PM
You seem more like Skywest material.....maybe you should reconsider coming here.







You can keep him...:confused::eek::D

ENH017
08-13-2018, 06:54 PM
Hmm why is that?

"...but we can always think together and generate ideas that can make Envoy better..."

You won't find a culture at Envoy that is all about "thinking together". The reality is that half of the airline was hired in the last 3 years, and there's a major difference in the point of view towards what needs to happen next here. That doesn't mean you'll have a bad experience, you'll get along with most people like others have mentioned. It's just that unity is not the first word that comes to mind when describing the pilot group here.

NoValueAviator
08-13-2018, 07:24 PM
Idk man if you canít let people be people from time to time maybe Envoy isnít for you. You probably would enjoy the culture at Skywest more, Iíve found them a lot more homogenous personality wise.

NoValueAviator
08-13-2018, 07:38 PM
Donít delete Skip that was a good rant

UncreativeUser
08-13-2018, 08:01 PM
Idk man if you canít let people be people from time to time maybe Envoy isnít for you. You probably would enjoy the culture at Skywest more, Iíve found them a lot more homogenous personality wise.

I never said that is wasn't ok to vent. But I believe my point is being proven by telling me not to come here because I am being optomistic, it's toxic. We don't know each other and I'm not saying you're a bad person, maybe you are trying to help which I appreciate. But by telling me to go to Skywest (was a cadet there too) because I'm trying to stick up for a company who I believe in and trying to get me to turn away hurts Envoy, which is dissapointing because they believed enough in you to hire you (whether you work there or not).

Other prospective pilots read these forms and unfortunately some jaded perspectives tend to sway thoughts on a company that could have been a great fit had it not been for the negativity.

UncreativeUser
08-13-2018, 08:04 PM
You can keep him...:confused::eek::D

Lol I got off of your guy's kool-aid real quick thankfully.

highfarfast
08-13-2018, 08:20 PM
Can we find a mod to delete both these threads and pretend they never happened?

NoValueAviator
08-13-2018, 08:25 PM
Lol, I made a good faith effort to defuse without a rainbow enema and he doubled down. I give up, welcome to Envoy.

I donít want to trigger you again but it might not be a bad idea to make sure your ďoptimismĒ doesnít come off as judgmental when you call me toxic etc. for suggesting a job where youíd obviously be happier. Not very optimistic of you there speedbird.

WesternSkies
08-13-2018, 11:08 PM
What? Like a guy looking for self worth validation from his employer and work friends could get disillusioned by the corporation that held Eagle submissively on the ropes with a figurative gun to its head.

Cujo665
08-14-2018, 02:22 AM
I never said that is wasn't ok to vent. But I believe my point is being proven by telling me not to come here because I am being optomistic, it's toxic. We don't know each other and I'm not saying you're a bad person, maybe you are trying to help which I appreciate. But by telling me to go to Skywest (was a cadet there too) because I'm trying to stick up for a company who I believe in and trying to get me to turn away hurts Envoy, which is dissapointing because they believed enough in you to hire you (whether you work there or not).

Other prospective pilots read these forms and unfortunately some jaded perspectives tend to sway thoughts on a company that could have been a great fit had it not been for the negativity.


Those negative people you reference came to Envoy just as positive and starry eyed as you.

Bigpimppilot
08-14-2018, 02:59 AM
They arenít negative attitudes due to negative people. These posts come from experience and management culture. Non creative welcome aboard. Please reread this thread in six months to a year for perspective

ďbecause I'm trying to stick up for a company who I believe in and trying to get me to turn away hurts Envoy,Ē

Envoy management turned their back on 1000 pilots a few years ago and told them to restart at psa or piedmont. Your not going to make a hurt difference.

Skip0927
08-14-2018, 04:17 AM
Donít delete Skip that was a good rant

Thanks. Thought better of it

Cyio
08-14-2018, 04:53 AM
While I am somewhat new to the company I can wholeheartedly say that you shouldnít be sticking up for this company, or any airline really. There is a sharp divide between Managment and labor and the company will not stick up for you beyond what they are legally required too. Your Union is the one that does that, in therory.

Anyway, I have had a fantastic experience with Envoy crews so far, so donít misinterpret what people are saying. Lots of the posters on here were around during the **** days and watched the company screw them over without mercy, so while you have a very optimistic and positive approach to it, others see the writing on the wall.

My biggest fear as that all of this optimism and positive advancement is going to make our pilot group complacent and when things go to hell, which they will again, we wonít have any seasoned union guys/gals to step up.

Itís easy to be rosy and starry eyed when the company is throwing money around but understand, the very moment they donít have to, they wonít. The company is playing nice for their benefit, not ours.

Lastly, like I said, I have had a great experience and hope it continues, just donít come on here expecting those that have seen the dark side to just roll over.

SilentLurker
08-14-2018, 07:48 AM
This.

I've been looking forward to coming to Envoy for about a year or so now after finally reaching minimums I'm going into the next class as a cadet. Usually, I just read posts but now I am having second thoughts about coming here because there are fellow pilots on here that decide to post threads bashing some guy with a vlog.

Is this a joke? I really would like to know what it is that makes the pilots on this particular forum so salty about everything, it's very off-putting coming to an airline I'm excited to join just to find pilot's continuously complaining about everything. I don't see this even see this kind of behavior on Mesa's forums, it's pathetic.

I'm not saying that everything about Envoy is peachy perfect, nor am I saying that I am an always "positive vibes" kind of guy. But this kind of negative bull**** has to stop. From what I hear in person, Envoy is still considered a top-tier regional.

It is evident by the fact that we started a thread bashing someone with hopes and dreams to fly for the airlines, just like the rest of us. It is evident that we have a program like a flow that doesn't work in their favor because it is not quick enough. The flow thing isn't even designed to be your only hope to getting into the majors yet there are pilots on here that bash it probably because they can't get in without it (which is fine but respect the process).

Writing on this forum won't do much, I have listed concerns to management and they actually tend to listen to ideas if you take the time to let them know. That is one of the strongest ways to change a company besides complaining on the sidelines.

As to that thread, yes I have met Swayne and he is not as much of a douche as I initially thought he was. But I still would have posted this anyways even if he was.

If there are issues, let's work together as a team. I understand the need to vent, but we can always think together and generate ideas that can make Envoy better than it is instead of getting behind a keyboard and venting to people who are just as powerless as I am to change anything.



Bravo!!! I felt the same as you, not knowing the guy, I felt bad reading some of the post about the guy! It makes this REGIONAL AIRLINE look really bad and unprofessional to bad mouth someone publicly or publicly try to shame him without knowing him or who he is as a person. Itís unprofessional.

When I first came here it was the culture and image of eagle pilots I admired most, along with bonus, better pay, half a decade land of milk & honey flow.

But there are folks here that think just because they have been here XX amount of years (too long), their voice is greater and grander than someone else and that humble factor that is a admirable character is non-existent. I respect longevity I really do. But to tarnish another persons character out of JEALOUSY is very tacky, unprofessional, and lady dog (bishhy).


Op, pass on to Swayne & to you also that online perspective of a few are not a indication of the large majority or the masses! Welcome Onboard! Large Majority of the pilots on here and in the fleet is and will be very glad to have you & looking forward to flying with you and hearing of the overall life experiences youíve had.

I too felt sick reading posts on here abt that guy, I had log in issues and could not post,. And quite frankly I was sick of reading the haters & jealous folks posts, I took a break from APC, and went back to ďJCĒ com where the overall pilots there are a lot more professional & with character.

These online forums can be depressing and harsh and not reflect reality sometime. Overall there are many things such as Reserve rules and pay/soft pay, QOL issues that need fixing, but overall, I have to say this Airline (due to industry trends and pressure) is a much better place to work than years ago.

The industry is changing so fast OP, continue to think long-term if you were stuck at a regional where would you go, since it will not always be roses! Continue to ask yourself, outside the flow (pay, QOL, crap Flight files and schedules from mainline, health care, Retirement, 401K, soft pay, contract language, 12yr+ CA Pay long term if you were stuck here), would you come here ? Or go to Endeavor, Republic, Air Wisconsin, (or even Piedmont with 300% OT), etc. overall, something for all interested to consider.

Your a good person for standing up to the inter-web text bullies!

Paid2fly
08-17-2018, 12:37 AM
Lol I got off of your guy's kool-aid real quick thankfully.









Personally, never touch the stuff myself(doesn't mix well with Bacardi or Vodka)... ;) :p

UncreativeUser
08-21-2018, 09:02 PM
Bravo!!! I felt the same as you, not knowing the guy, I felt bad reading some of the post about the guy! It makes this REGIONAL AIRLINE look really bad and unprofessional to bad mouth someone publicly or publicly try to shame him without knowing him or who he is as a person. Itís unprofessional.

When I first came here it was the culture and image of eagle pilots I admired most, along with bonus, better pay, half a decade land of milk & honey flow.

But there are folks here that think just because they have been here XX amount of years (too long), their voice is greater and grander than someone else and that humble factor that is a admirable character is non-existent. I respect longevity I really do. But to tarnish another persons character out of JEALOUSY is very tacky, unprofessional, and lady dog (bishhy).


Op, pass on to Swayne & to you also that online perspective of a few are not a indication of the large majority or the masses! Welcome Onboard! Large Majority of the pilots on here and in the fleet is and will be very glad to have you & looking forward to flying with you and hearing of the overall life experiences youíve had.

I too felt sick reading posts on here abt that guy, I had log in issues and could not post,. And quite frankly I was sick of reading the haters & jealous folks posts, I took a break from APC, and went back to ďJCĒ com where the overall pilots there are a lot more professional & with character.

These online forums can be depressing and harsh and not reflect reality sometime. Overall there are many things such as Reserve rules and pay/soft pay, QOL issues that need fixing, but overall, I have to say this Airline (due to industry trends and pressure) is a much better place to work than years ago.

The industry is changing so fast OP, continue to think long-term if you were stuck at a regional where would you go, since it will not always be roses! Continue to ask yourself, outside the flow (pay, QOL, crap Flight files and schedules from mainline, health care, Retirement, 401K, soft pay, contract language, 12yr+ CA Pay long term if you were stuck here), would you come here ? Or go to Endeavor, Republic, Air Wisconsin, (or even Piedmont with 300% OT), etc. overall, something for all interested to consider.

Your a good person for standing up to the inter-web text bullies!



Thank you, I appreciate that! Idk I feel bad about the past guys but they like to take it out on the younger crowd as if we were at fault for the industry is the way it is today.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

UncreativeUser
08-21-2018, 09:06 PM
Personally, never touch the stuff myself(doesn't mix well with Bacardi or Vodka)... ;) :p



Have you tried Grey Goose? You might like that if you could afford it with that Skywest pay (sorry I just had to get a jab in there couldn't pass up that opportunity [emoji12])

Seriously though, I hope you guys do get a better contract soon.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

bklynbacon
08-22-2018, 01:58 PM
Being so idealistic is commendable. Like rookie police officers. Ready to save the world. The one thing I always like to caution. Itís just a job. No one owes you a thing. So when you get let down by something or you get jammed up...itís business as usual. Keep your head up and ride out. Because big corporations are too big to fail and ďcamaraderieĒ is an old word that isnít really used much anymore unfortunately.

UncreativeUser
08-27-2018, 03:09 PM
Being so idealistic is commendable. Like rookie police officers. Ready to save the world. The one thing I always like to caution. Itís just a job. No one owes you a thing. So when you get let down by something or you get jammed up...itís business as usual. Keep your head up and ride out. Because big corporations are too big to fail and ďcamaraderieĒ is an old word that isnít really used much anymore unfortunately.



True. But if they **** everyone off collectively only then will it become a problem, which I donít think they are trying to actively do. To me I hope this isnít a job because Iím very passionate about flying in general and thatís not working to me. Itís just depressing seeing guys who have given up to come on here and rip on a company that isnít even that bad


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

moon
08-27-2018, 03:32 PM
True. But if they **** everyone off collectively only then will it become a problem, which I donít think they are trying to actively do. To me I hope this isnít a job because Iím very passionate about flying in general and thatís not working to me. Itís just depressing seeing guys who have given up to come on here and rip on a company that isnít even that bad


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Dude you don't even work here how could you have any idea that it isn't even that bad. Good luck on reserve bet showing up to the airport at 6 am 7 times a month to sit and do nothing for 8 hours at a time won't even be that bad.

Skip0927
08-27-2018, 07:33 PM
Dude you don't even work here how could you have any idea that it isn't even that bad. Good luck on reserve bet showing up to the airport at 6 am 7 times a month to sit and do nothing for 8 hours at a time won't even be that bad.

Exactly^^^

UncreativeUser
08-27-2018, 09:19 PM
Dude you don't even work here how could you have any idea that it isn't even that bad. Good luck on reserve bet showing up to the airport at 6 am 7 times a month to sit and do nothing for 8 hours at a time won't even be that bad.


Guess what ďdudeĒ I donít care if that happens cause I donít whine and complain like you do. Seriously why donít you go work an accounting job then, you knew what you were getting into unless you didnít read the contract which Iím guessing you didnít.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UncreativeUser
08-27-2018, 09:25 PM
Dude you don't even work here how could you have any idea that it isn't even that bad. Good luck on reserve bet showing up to the airport at 6 am 7 times a month to sit and do nothing for 8 hours at a time won't even be that bad.



But yeah, keep discouraging new pilots from coming here instead of acting like a professional and offering advice/help. I do have an idea from the friends and other professionals I know that work at Envoy that DO NOT COMPLAIN and make the best of it.

Inclined plane
08-28-2018, 12:00 AM
But yeah, keep discouraging new pilots from coming here instead of acting like a professional and offering advice/help. I do have an idea from the friends and other professionals I know that work at Envoy that DO NOT COMPLAIN and make the best of it.



This should go without saying, but may have gone over your head; but those that are ďdiscouraging new pilots from coming hereĒ are attempting to make the pay/working conditions better by forcing the companyís hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

moon
08-28-2018, 05:33 AM
But yeah, keep discouraging new pilots from coming here instead of acting like a professional and offering advice/help. I do have an idea from the friends and other professionals I know that work at Envoy that DO NOT COMPLAIN and make the best of it.

I'm not discouraging. I get upset when someone who doesn't work here tries to tell us how good it actually is. Read a contract that's great but you may not realize how it is intetpretted by the company and how we have to fight just for black and white language. Work here for a year before you pontificate how good or bad this company actually is.

402FreightDog
08-28-2018, 06:46 AM
This.

I've been looking forward to coming to Envoy for about a year or so now after finally reaching minimums I'm going into the next class as a cadet. Usually, I just read posts but now I am having second thoughts about coming here because there are fellow pilots on here that decide to post threads bashing some guy with a vlog.

Is this a joke? I really would like to know what it is that makes the pilots on this particular forum so salty about everything, it's very off-putting coming to an airline I'm excited to join just to find pilot's continuously complaining about everything. I don't see this even see this kind of behavior on Mesa's forums, it's pathetic.

I'm not saying that everything about Envoy is peachy perfect, nor am I saying that I am an always "positive vibes" kind of guy. But this kind of negative bull**** has to stop. From what I hear in person, Envoy is still considered a top-tier regional.

It is evident by the fact that we started a thread bashing someone with hopes and dreams to fly for the airlines, just like the rest of us. It is evident that we have a program like a flow that doesn't work in their favor because it is not quick enough. The flow thing isn't even designed to be your only hope to getting into the majors yet there are pilots on here that bash it probably because they can't get in without it (which is fine but respect the process).

Writing on this forum won't do much, I have listed concerns to management and they actually tend to listen to ideas if you take the time to let them know. That is one of the strongest ways to change a company besides complaining on the sidelines.

As to that thread, yes I have met Swayne and he is not as much of a douche as I initially thought he was. But I still would have posted this anyways even if he was.

If there are issues, let's work together as a team. I understand the need to vent, but we can always think together and generate ideas that can make Envoy better than it is instead of getting behind a keyboard and venting to people who are just as powerless as I am to change anything.
Like I said earlier, I think you are in for a very LONG career or a very short one. If you get your feelings hurt because of some postings, you have a pretty thin skin. Professional aviation is not for the thin skinned or faint of heart.

Itís pretty easy to say something when youíre not the one doing it.

SilentLurker
08-28-2018, 07:56 AM
UncreativeUser all I can recommend is, if you want a long stress free career stay away from the job complaint boards.

There are pro and cons here like any company. Pilots love to complain, moreso here than elsewhere because of the Ďnastyí history between line pilot and the way management has treated them will not be forgotten. Nobody trust them, and rightfully so. Best thing to do as a new guy/girl is to just nod and say ďUmmmhmmm, I hear yaĒ when someone complains about this company. Itís been a wild ride for them and they deserve to vent.

You will read more complaints than positivity in these boards same with the Line when you get there. On these board we all know mgmt folks keep tabs and read what is being said occasionally. APC is not nearly as bad as airlinetalk as a forum/board.

Folks get labeled easily on these boards as well. Mention ďthis is a great place to work, flow is workingĒ your taunted as mgmt or recruiters. Those who complain are labeled grumpy groots.

Everyone has a opinion, the opinions I personally care most are from those who cared enough to volunteer with ALPA in various positions, those in management positions, and the opinions from the experienced school house members.

The rest who complain so passionately online yet do nothing about it except move their fingers on boards are wheel chair quarterbacks who got funked so hard they still need to vent. Just nod your head and say ďUmmhmmm.Ē

Nothing will make some of these people happy. Even if they flowed, they will find plenty to be grumpy about at AA. Sometimes the best thing to do is not to respond. Pros and cons here. Everyone agrees Rsv rules need to catch up with the times here. Itís below standard. Long call Rsv is over due, as well as better flight files sent to us from AA to build better trips and schedules with. There are many things that need improvement here. But there are also many good things happening and in the works.,

This industry is changing fast. The future of this carrier is still bright. Timing is key. Again welcome aboard, large majority here are all glad to have you.

Smutter
08-28-2018, 08:34 AM
Guess what ďdudeĒ I donít care if that happens cause I donít whine and complain like you do. Seriously why donít you go work an accounting job then, you knew what you were getting into unless you didnít read the contract which Iím guessing you didnít.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Please rescind your offer and go somewhere else

in2deep
08-28-2018, 08:36 AM
Guess what ďdudeĒ I donít care if that happens cause I donít whine and complain like you do. Seriously why donít you go work an accounting job then, you knew what you were getting into unless you didnít read the contract which Iím guessing you didnít.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had the same feelings as you did before coming here. Your opinion is meaningless until you hit the line.

Whiskey4
08-28-2018, 08:43 AM
Dude you don't even work here how could you have any idea that it isn't even that bad. Good luck on reserve bet showing up to the airport at 6 am 7 times a month to sit and do nothing for 8 hours at a time won't even be that bad.

I love all you guys who complain about a job where you get paid to show up and do nothing. Iíd love you to complain about standby to pretty much any other labor employee on earth. Try construction or landscaping if you want to know about what tough work conditions can be.

Guys that complain about standby either have never held a non-flying job, or have no entrepreneurial spirit. Standby = more time to make money from your side hustle.

moon
08-28-2018, 08:57 AM
I love all you guys who complain about a job where you get paid to show up and do nothing. Iíd love you to complain about standby to pretty much any other labor employee on earth. Try construction or landscaping if you want to know about what tough work conditions can be.

Guys that complain about standby either have never held a non-flying job, or have no entrepreneurial spirit. Standby = more time to make money from your side hustle.

Worked construction. Worked an office job. It's true standby is easier than those jobs, until its your last day and you reach hour 7 and a half and it's 1030 pm and you just want to go home but you can't because there is another aircraft type that is delayed and you can't leave until 11 or it leaves because well what if it downgrades.

This job has been fine to me but I see how brutal it can be to junior people and commuters. I sympathize with those people and want to fight for change. It just gets to me when someone with no direct knowledge of how tough it can be to work here at times tells us we dont have it that bad. To that user. You are getting hired on the back end of a big hiring wave so things could be tough for you if you get the 145 or CRJ. I hope it works out but wait until you've been here for awhile before you pass judgement on our contract it's more than just pay rates and flow.

UncreativeUser
08-29-2018, 06:22 PM
Please rescind your offer and go somewhere else

How about you leave the company then if all you have to say is negative crap, hence this post.

UncreativeUser
08-29-2018, 06:58 PM
Worked construction. Worked an office job. It's true standby is easier than those jobs, until its your last day and you reach hour 7 and a half and it's 1030 pm and you just want to go home but you can't because there is another aircraft type that is delayed and you can't leave until 11 or it leaves because well what if it downgrades.

This job has been fine to me but I see how brutal it can be to junior people and commuters. I sympathize with those people and want to fight for change. It just gets to me when someone with no direct knowledge of how tough it can be to work here at times tells us we dont have it that bad. To that user. You are getting hired on the back end of a big hiring wave so things could be tough for you if you get the 145 or CRJ. I hope it works out but wait until you've been here for awhile before you pass judgement on our contract it's more than just pay rates and flow.

I've worked construction too, as well as reasturants, grocery stores, your typical lower wage high hour jobs to get through school and what not.

I'm not trying to say I know everything, I'm just saying that we should have our board kept to a somewhat professional level, I think it's been getting better but it seems like we literally complain the most across the fourms compared to what people are ACTUALLY saying and its not that bad. I just dont want ptospective guys getting scared away cuase of this but hey I guess that wouldnt be the worst thing since were over staffed now.

Inclined plane
08-29-2018, 08:55 PM
I just dont want ptospective guys getting scared away cuase of this


This sure sounds like what AAG is hoping for. As long as people are still lining up to come here, thereís zero need to fix anything. Management is on record stating this. The OPís viewpoint, IMHO is hurting our pilot group more than helping. In fact, those sign-on bonuses and the $38/hr FO pay didnít happen until AAG saw that no one was coming here while SkyWest had classes of 80 and others had larger classes as well. Way to be oblivious OP. [emoji106] Just chill and let people vent. If prospective pilots are indeed scared away by the truth, then whatís it to you? Take off the super hero underoos, or if thatís just your thing, then I suggest finding a more noble cause to champion.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

flywithjohn
08-29-2018, 09:06 PM
I'm just saying that we should have our board kept to a somewhat professional level, I think it's been getting better but it seems like we literally complain the most across the fourms compared to what people are ACTUALLY saying and its not that bad


Are you new to the internet or something?
99% of all message boards are whining and complaining in some form - if it really bothers you that much, maybe just stop reading it? Just a suggestion.

NoValueAviator
08-29-2018, 09:14 PM
"I can't believe you guys don't want to show up and do nothing"

Some of us need hours so we can get a decent job.

moon
08-30-2018, 07:08 AM
I've worked construction too, as well as reasturants, grocery stores, your typical lower wage high hour jobs to get through school and what not.

I'm not trying to say I know everything, I'm just saying that we should have our board kept to a somewhat professional level, I think it's been getting better but it seems like we literally complain the most across the fourms compared to what people are ACTUALLY saying and its not that bad. I just dont want ptospective guys getting scared away cuase of this but hey I guess that wouldnt be the worst thing since were over staffed now.

You don't get it yet. You will, give it a year.

bigtime209
08-30-2018, 08:23 AM
You don't get it yet. You will, give it a year.

This

...

Houpilot2001
08-31-2018, 11:41 PM
This

...

I'd give it 4 months of rsv, a few JMs, maybe a double dead head and sitting in the crew room daily. Doesn't take much.

SilentLurker
09-01-2018, 09:58 AM
I'd give it 4 months of rsv, a few JMs, maybe a double dead head and sitting in the crew room daily. Doesn't take much.



I remember being somewhat new, i remember what did it for me.

A reassignment, 3-4hr sit, into a ABQ Turn on my last day from scheduling did it for me. I was expecting a 1 & done. A quick flight into ORD, to then be reassigned (I had even listed for the long commute home to see my family that I had not seen in 5 days (5on2off). Like many others. Nature of the job sometimes and Rsv life.

I donít mind a reassignment but a 3-4hr sit and then a ABQ turn is special hell. No one to appropriate the trip because maybe no FO wanted to fly with that one CA I guess. I have no clue what the reasoning. But I called scheduling to hear ďhey man Iím sorry, we got body, Iíll call you if something shorter comes up.Ē Ended up being a decent flt & crew, but 5 days straight on company time away from family adds up.

Upon return to ORD last 2 flight home now needed up being full & 2 AA jump-seaters. My 2 days off to be with family turned into 1day off honestly, as I had to use a commuter hotel and fly out early the next morning for ď2offĒ, but what most new guys donít realize is you may have to on many occasions on your last ďdayĒ fly out to base. Itís not really a day off is it??? Since we have to commute early due to full flights & Jumpseat listing wars. So I had to fly out early in that next afternoon after getting home (fly back to work in the afternoon of my last day off), all due to full flights in the evening. All due to proffer results being out the evening prior 4/5pm. All because I was on 4am Pre-assigned RAP (which company does this & has won the pre-assigned 4am RAP 1 battle with the pilots). So 1 night at home after 5 days of working it was for me, and back out to work another 4 days.

I learned to be ****ed off real quick, but learned also to tame it. Double thumbs up to posts above. Only take a few months after IOE to realize the suck of rsv life here! Itís one thing reading it, itís another living it.

I could not imagine having a newborn and that happening. While on Reserve and being a commuter. If Iím deployed in the military itís one thing. But Iím not deployed, Iím Ďhomeí. This job, especially with our Pre&Post bankruptcy formulated Rsv rule and language can and does take a toll on Ďhomeí & Ďfamilyí. Line Pilots realize the facts more than prospective NHs because we live it! Itís not really complaining itís sounding the alarm of truth and reality when potential NH only get feed what marketing they see. This industry can take a toll on family. Just want to make sure people know what they are getting into.

I enjoy the job I do, and know the company I work for will and can do better and will and can be great. I do this job for my family & faith goals (the life I have outside of Aviation). I personally had to make drastic changes to save my family, I made location sacrifices for improved QOL, itís made a huge difference. I donít expect others to uproot and do the same as I did, they shouldnít have to.

Houpilot2001
09-01-2018, 10:56 AM
I remember being somewhat new, i remember what did it for me.

A reassignment, 3-4hr sit, into a ABQ Turn on my last day from scheduling did it for me. I was expecting a 1 & done. A quick flight into ORD, to then be reassigned (I had even listed for the long commute home to see my family that I had not seen in 5 days (5on2off). Like many others. Nature of the job sometimes and Rsv life.

I donít mind a reassignment but a 3-4hr sit and then a ABQ turn is special hell. No one to appropriate the trip because maybe no FO wanted to fly with that one CA I guess. I have no clue what the reasoning. But I called scheduling to hear ďhey man Iím sorry, we got body, Iíll call you if something shorter comes up.Ē Ended up being a decent flt & crew, but 5 days straight on company time away from family adds up.

Upon return to ORD last 2 flight home now needed up being full & 2 AA jump-seaters. My 2 days off to be with family turned into 1day off honestly, as I had to use a commuter hotel and fly out early the next morning for ď2offĒ, but what most new guys donít realize is you may have to on many occasions on your last ďdayĒ fly out to base. Itís not really a day off is it??? Since we have to commute early due to full flights & Jumpseat listing wars. So I had to fly out early in that next afternoon after getting home (fly back to work in the afternoon of my last day off), all due to full flights in the evening. All due to proffer results being out the evening prior 4/5pm. All because I was on 4am Pre-assigned RAP (which company does this & has won the pre-assigned 4am RAP 1 battle with the pilots). So 1 night at home after 5 days of working it was for me, and back out to work another 4 days.

I learned to be ****ed off real quick, but learned also to tame it. Double thumbs up to posts above. Only take a few months after IOE to realize the suck of rsv life here! Itís one thing reading it, itís another living it.

I could not imagine having a newborn and that happening. While on Reserve and being a commuter. If Iím deployed in the military itís one thing. But Iím not deployed, Iím Ďhomeí. This job, especially with our Pre&Post bankruptcy formulated Rsv rule and language can and does take a toll on Ďhomeí & Ďfamilyí. Line Pilots realize the facts more than prospective NHs because we live it! Itís not really complaining itís sounding the alarm of truth and reality when potential NH only get feed what marketing they see. This industry can take a toll on family. Just want to make sure people know what they are getting into.

I enjoy the job I do, and know the company I work for will and can do better and will and can be great. I do this job for my family & faith goals (the life I have outside of Aviation). I personally had to make drastic changes to save my family, I made location sacrifices for improved QOL, itís made a huge difference. I donít expect others to uproot and do the same as I did, they shouldnít have to.

Great post, and right on about the fact that NHs come in with blinders on and rose colored glasses with they have been spoon fed by recruitment.

I too enjoy this job and this company, but facts are facts and you either understand that things will happen, or you let it eat you alive and burn out.

All that said, learn the contract inside and out, if you dont know ask someone and expect to get envoyed every once in a while.

Amansworld
09-05-2018, 05:47 PM
This place is by far the worst place I have ever worked. Constantly seeing bad attitudes, worst schedules ever, poor working conditions and an overall hostile work environment from middle management. Sad part is this place could be good.

havick206
09-05-2018, 06:29 PM
This place is by far the worst place I have ever worked. Constantly seeing bad attitudes, worst schedules ever, poor working conditions and an overall hostile work environment from middle management. Sad part is this place could be good.

Have you read the PDT threads?

Amansworld
09-06-2018, 06:59 AM
Have you read the PDT threads?

PDT threads?

bh539
09-06-2018, 07:12 AM
This place is by far the worst place I have ever worked. Constantly seeing bad attitudes, worst schedules ever, poor working conditions and an overall hostile work environment from middle management. Sad part is this place could be good.

There are posts like this in every subforum. I've never seen so many mixed reviews about anything as I've seen on APC.