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nimslow
08-15-2018, 06:20 AM
I commute on a route thats very heavy with AA and Envoy commuters. Over the past couple of months, I've run across more than a few new Envoy pilots who have been checked in as a D2 for multiple flights between the same city pair, on the same day. One individual was listed, and checked in for every flight of the day.

Review the employee travel policies, the company does look for this stuff, and other employees may turn you in. You can get your travel privileges suspended/revoked, or possibly fired.


Pedro4President
08-15-2018, 08:12 AM
I commute on a route thats very heavy with AA and Envoy commuters. Over the past couple of months, I've run across more than a few new Envoy pilots who have been checked in as a D2 for multiple flights between the same city pair, on the same day. One individual was listed, and checked in for every flight of the day.

Review the employee travel policies, the company does look for this stuff, and other employees may turn you in. You can get your travel privileges suspended/revoked, or possibly fired.
Here's a tip.... sign in for the later one and if you get done on time or early then you can ask the gate agent to roll you over to the earlier flight.

SilentLurker
08-15-2018, 09:11 AM
Sign in time is kept. Only issue is if everyone started doing this the inaccuracy of standby flight load & planning expectations go down the squatter. Hard to imagine but possibly more deplorable than it already is.

OP nimslow please report them and names to your union rep, Jumpseat Committee chair, Pro Standards, etc.

If you recognize the names. If it continues take it to management. Hell we all know the rules.

PSA should know very well Itís not cool stepping on other pilots....


BigZ
08-15-2018, 09:18 AM
PSA should know very well Itís not cool stepping on other pilots....
Pretty sure PSA was meant as "Public Service Announcement"...

SilentLurker
08-15-2018, 09:41 AM
Pretty sure PSA was meant as "Public Service Announcement"...



I agree. Just a good low jab opportunity at PSA for a relative title sake.

WO Pilots should definitely stop stepping on each other overall. Jumpseat etiquette, D1/D2, A12, double listingís, contracts, concessions. No matter the carrier. OP called out envoy as he/she should.

Iíve heard APC is not a place to get results, only to disseminate, vent, point fingers, and get fingered.

bh539
08-15-2018, 10:20 AM
and get fingered.

This is a family site, please consider editing your comment

-Tom

NoValueAviator
08-15-2018, 12:17 PM
You want to go to pro standards? Lol, tell the union. Or better still, sack up and tell them directly. Maybe show them how to jumpseat OAL so they arenít stuck commuting on the worldís most oversold airline. They donít tell us anything in indoc, the pilots in question probably donít know.

highfarfast
08-15-2018, 12:50 PM
the pilots in question probably donít know.

That is most certainly correct. Thereís really no benefit to listing for multiple flights. Doing so just shows they donít really know how the system works.

And even if they were Ďtoldí during indoc, they were getting a lot of information at once. Itís pretty forgivable if they miss some detail on travel policy. So yeah, tell them yourself or take it to the union. No reason to get the company involved.

moon
08-15-2018, 01:15 PM
You want to go to pro standards? Lol, tell the union. Or better still, sack up and tell them directly. Maybe show them how to jumpseat OAL so they arenít stuck commuting on the worldís most oversold airline. They donít tell us anything in indoc, the pilots in question probably donít know.

Pro standards is the union.

nimslow
08-15-2018, 01:22 PM
That is most certainly correct. Thereís really no benefit to listing for multiple flights. Doing so just shows they donít really know how the system works.

And even if they were Ďtoldí during indoc, they were getting a lot of information at once. Itís pretty forgivable if they miss some detail on travel policy. So yeah, tell them yourself or take it to the union. No reason to get the company involved.


Unless things have changed recently, the company won't see it that way. They don't have any sense of humor about travel abuse, and over the years at Eagle and AA, I've known several people who have had their travel privileges suspended.

The company monitors for multiple listings, and now we hear no show bookings (list/check in for early flight, no show but get rolled over to later flight, with original check in time). Playing non-rev games isn't a good idea.

I'll continue to try and talk to anyone who is doing stuff like that. Do you guys have pilot mentors for the new hires? That might be something they can address.

Whiskey4
08-15-2018, 01:53 PM
They donít tell us anything in indoc, the pilots in question probably donít know.

But they can read, write, speak, and understand English, right? Thereís a published travel guide on the company site. You donít need an instructor for everything.

highfarfast
08-15-2018, 01:54 PM
Unless things have changed recently, the company won't see it that way. They don't have any sense of humor about travel abuse, and over the years at Eagle and AA, I've known several people who have had their travel privileges suspended.

The company monitors for multiple listings, and now we hear no show bookings (list/check in for early flight, no show but get rolled over to later flight, with original check in time). Playing non-rev games isn't a good idea.

I'll continue to try and talk to anyone who is doing stuff like that. Do you guys have pilot mentors for the new hires? That might be something they can address.

I wasnít trying to say that the company would forgive it, thatís why I said donít take it to the company.

Destroyer
08-15-2018, 03:13 PM
I've noticed the same thing on multiple occasions by the same person. They are screwing themselfs when it comes to rolling over to the next flight and everyone behind them. I just haven't been lucky enough to run into the individual yet to talk to them and let them know. If agree with going to the union first and eventually management if needed but pulling them to the side and educating them first may be a better answer. On a side note the D2 to D1 switch at the last minute and taking the JS is getting really old guys....

NoValueAviator
08-15-2018, 03:43 PM
To me, the breakdown in A12 positive space travel affecting NY pilots is a much bigger issue, but no one seems to care about that. Or NY pilots. So it goes.

wiz5422
08-15-2018, 03:48 PM
Why aren't we able to reserve the jump sest in advance on our metal like AA?

Ijustlikeflying
08-15-2018, 04:40 PM
I've noticed the same thing on multiple occasions by the same person. They are screwing themselfs when it comes to rolling over to the next flight and everyone behind them. I just haven't been lucky enough to run into the individual yet to talk to them and let them know. If agree with going to the union first and eventually management if needed but pulling them to the side and educating them first may be a better answer. On a side note the D2 to D1 switch at the last minute and taking the JS is getting really old guys....


Thereís nothing that says you canít do that. You get six. Use them wisely. If someone uses one to get home for something etc. thatís their own business and thatís the name of the game.

nimslow
08-15-2018, 05:30 PM
Why aren't we able to reserve the jump sest in advance on our metal like AA?


That's a whole other discussion about abuse of privileges there. It's an ok system, but it needs major improvement.

Name User
08-15-2018, 05:31 PM
I ran into another WO'd guy doing this. I did say something. He was very defensive and gave a BS reason "I'm just trying to commute". Yeah, so are we all. I'm sure he's at AA now probably still doing the same thing but with the jumpseat. I ran into him a few times afterward and he made it like I was the bad guy for even saying something.

HobGoblin
08-15-2018, 05:56 PM
Pro standards is the union.

Yep.

Itís like nobody knows who or what pro standards is or does.

LineUpAndPay
08-15-2018, 06:34 PM
To me, the breakdown in A12 positive space travel affecting NY pilots is a much bigger issue, but no one seems to care about that. Or NY pilots. So it goes.

What's going on with this situation? I don't know much about what's going on out there.

EmbaeDriver
08-15-2018, 08:53 PM
Just report them

nimslow
08-16-2018, 05:25 AM
I ran into another WO'd guy doing this. I did say something. He was very defensive and gave a BS reason "I'm just trying to commute". Yeah, so are we all. I'm sure he's at AA now probably still doing the same thing but with the jumpseat. I ran into him a few times afterward and he made it like I was the bad guy for even saying something.

With the attitude, Iíd just turn them to employee travel, and let them deal with it.

We have a huge problem with Jumpseat reservation system. People making multiple reservations, and not canceling when they donít intend to show up. I was told the new flows are the biggest offenders. Hopefully it will change when the web based reservation system happens.

NoValueAviator
08-16-2018, 12:01 PM
Yep.

Itís like nobody knows who or what pro standards is or does.

Well, resources like that are less useful when your first impulse is to talk and give your fellow pilot a chance. Then again, some guys are so scared to talk to people they wonít order a pizza over the phone, so I can see why dropping a dime over email would appeal to them.

What's going on with this situation? I don't know much about what's going on out there.

Not sure what the scope of the issue is, but since earlier this month many NY pilots Iíve talked to can no longer utilize A12 listings. A listing is sent to RES but you canít retrieve the PNR for check in and are not given a seat or placed on the priority list. This is the case regardless of whether the listing is made by you or by crew scheduling.

E175 Driver
08-16-2018, 02:09 PM
Unless things have changed recently, the company won't see it that way. They don't have any sense of humor about travel abuse, and over the years at Eagle and AA, I've known several people who have had their travel privileges suspended.

The company monitors for multiple listings, and now we hear no show bookings (list/check in for early flight, no show but get rolled over to later flight, with original check in time). Playing non-rev games isn't a good idea.

I'll continue to try and talk to anyone who is doing stuff like that. Do you guys have pilot mentors for the new hires? That might be something they can address.

Yes, Swayne is in charge of it.

in2deep
08-16-2018, 02:09 PM
Uno show bookings (list/check in for early flight, no show but get rolled over to later flight, with original check in time). Playing non-rev games isn't a good idea.

Donít they just remove you if you no show with seats available? I usually list for AA as a second option when going to work, but typically end up on another airline as my first option and no show AA. Never have I seen myself rolled over.

ParkingatMIA
08-17-2018, 05:37 AM
Donít they just remove you if you no show with seats available? I usually list for AA as a second option when going to work, but typically end up on another airline as my first option and no show AA. Never have I seen myself rolled over.

Just cancel your listing while walking down the jet bridge to you seat. It takes a whole 30 seconds

NoValueAviator
08-17-2018, 05:55 AM
Don’t they just remove you if you no show with seats available? I usually list for AA as a second option when going to work, but typically end up on another airline as my first option and no show AA. Never have I seen myself rolled over.

Yes, you are correct. They will simply remove you. The scenario imagined where someone lists for an earlier flight, no-shows, then drops in front of the D2s for a later flight with their earlier check-in time is in the imagination of the people complaining about it. The only way this might happen is if you run up to the gate before the agents leave but after the flight closes and tell a good story, not exactly a no-show.

Where it is an inconvenience for others is in planning around the first flight, since they may assume the jumpseat is not available and try a different flight with a similar departure time that is otherwise a worse chance, so as a courtesy it is best to knock out your unneeded listings when you get on.

highfarfast
08-17-2018, 06:00 AM
Yes, you are correct. They will simply remove you. The scenario imagined where someone lists for an earlier flight, no-shows, then drops in front of the D2s for a later flight with their earlier check-in time is in the imagination of the people complaining about it. The only way this might happen is if you run up to the gate before the agents leave but after the flight closes and tell a good story.

Actually, you can get any gate agent to do it, not just the one working the flight. There are legitimate reasons to have a gate agent change your itinerary but I could see how someone could abuse it too.

NoValueAviator
08-17-2018, 06:02 AM
Actually, you can get any gate agent to do it, not just the one working the flight. There are legitimate reasons to have a gate agent change your itinerary but I could see how someone could abuse it too.

From what I understand they aren't supposed to and I've been told NO after getting randomly selected for extra love by TSA and missing a flight.

Maybe just a nasty agent though idk.

in2deep
08-17-2018, 06:08 AM
Yes, you are correct. They will simply remove you. The scenario imagined where someone lists for an earlier flight, no-shows, then drops in front of the D2s for a later flight with their earlier check-in time is in the imagination of the people complaining about it. The only way this might happen is if you run up to the gate before the agents leave but after the flight closes and tell a good story, not exactly a no-show.

Where it is an inconvenience for others is in planning around the first flight, since they may assume the jumpseat is not available and try a different flight with a similar departure time that is otherwise a worse chance, so as a courtesy it is best to knock out your unneeded listings when you get on.

I try to remove my AA listing once we push from the gate. Especially on other airlines, getting booted is a real possibility.

Not trying a flight simply because there is a JS ahead of you is their own fault. I got on a flight the other day simply because the JS ahead of me no showed.

NoValueAviator
08-17-2018, 06:22 AM
I try to remove my AA listing once we push from the gate. Especially on other airlines, getting booted is a real possibility.

Not trying a flight simply because there is a JS ahead of you is their own fault. I got on a flight the other day simply because the JS ahead of me no showed.

Sure, and I've gotten on under similar circumstances. Even an AA flight where the AA tool listed for the JS no-showed and the CA wanted me to go look for the guy to take my seat. I don't agree though that it is completely the fault of the other guy not trying the flight. You have to think about where your best shot is and go stand at that gate, the more accurate the priority list is the better when making those types of decisions.

Theaveragejoker
08-19-2018, 05:47 AM
Sure, and I've gotten on under similar circumstances. Even an AA flight where the AA tool listed for the JS no-showed and the CA wanted me to go look for the guyto take my seat. I don't agree though that it is completely the fault of the other guy not trying the flight. You have to think about where your best shot is and go stand at that gate, the more accurate the priority list is the better when making those types of decisions.

It's not your seat. It's the captain's.

NoValueAviator
08-19-2018, 06:29 AM
It's not your seat. It's the captain's.

Same guy whose job it is to go find the guy with the jumpseat listing if that's his inclination, or just say no.

Name User
08-20-2018, 03:33 PM
It's not your seat. It's the captain's.

Eye roll.

Actually the company owns the airplane and the seat, the FM stipulates many who cannot be told "no" by a pilot...and what would you know about a jumpseat, I've never actually heard of someone being able to sit upfront on a Dash, do they even have a jumpseat or do you guys just say no to everyone by habit?

RUkidding
09-05-2018, 01:17 PM
How quickly are new hires put into CASS?

SilentLurker
09-05-2018, 03:02 PM
How quickly are new hires put into CASS?



Before end of the first week Indoc.

Jet757
09-23-2018, 05:22 AM
Speaking of commuting. Does anyone do the BOS-LGA commute? How bad is it?

And how easy is it to get those 4 monthly commuter hotels? Do you get re embersed or does that go on a company card with an expense report?

havick206
09-23-2018, 05:30 AM
Speaking of commuting. Does anyone do the BOS-LGA commute? How bad is it?

And how easy is it to get those 4 monthly commuter hotels? Do you get re embersed or does that go on a company card with an expense report?

As for the 4 commuter hotels you simply submit a request on decs and it appears shortly after on your hotels page. Nothing to it.

Jet757
09-23-2018, 05:34 AM
As for the 4 commuter hotels you simply submit a request on decs and it appears shortly after on your hotels page. Nothing to it.Thank you!

Jamesthunder
09-23-2018, 07:40 AM
You can request it via quick trade too. It certainly is faster if you don't know DECS like the back of your hand like most of us.

havick206
09-23-2018, 11:08 AM
You can request it via quick trade too. It certainly is faster if you don't know DECS like the back of your hand like most of us.

Same same. QuickTrade is decs. Was just trying to keep things simple for someone that doesnít work here.

For clarification for the guy asking, QuickTrade is an app that interfaces with decs that saves you having to enter the long string of decs codes and the manual request pages.

uavking
09-23-2018, 11:09 AM
You can request it via quick trade too. It certainly is faster if you don't know DECS like the back of your hand like most of us.

This^^. The form in DECS doesn't take too long to fill out, but one has to get into MobileFOS or find a Sabre set to do it. Quicktrade automates generating and sending that form. To me, that, and easy reserve profer and list access, is well worth the $5/mnth, not to mention the OT pickup and trip trade features as a line holder.



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