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View Full Version : Emotional Support Animals


rickair7777
08-15-2018, 10:48 AM
Bravo SWA!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southwest-safety-animals/southwest-to-allow-only-dogs-cats-as-emotional-support-animals-idUSKBN1KZ1Y6

(Reuters) - Southwest Airlines Co would limit emotional support animals to only dogs and cats on its flights and will allow one per passenger, the U.S. airline said on Tuesday as it updated its service animal policies.
A Southwest Arlines logo is seen as employees check in travelers at the Philadelphia International Airport in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania U.S. April 17, 2018. REUTERS/Mark Makela

The emotional support animal must remain in a carrier or be on a leash at all times, Southwest said, adding that customers traveling with pets will need to present a complete letter from a medical doctor or licensed mental health professional on the day of the departure.

Airlines have started to tighten policies to fly animals on growing concerns about passengers bringing aboard exotic pets that could pose a safety risk.

There are also growing complaints of some passengers falsely claiming pets as emotional support or psychiatric service animals to avoid paying.

The U.S. Transportation Department told U.S. airlines in may that they must continue to allow the transport of the most common service animals, but said it was asking for public comment about amending its existing regulations.

Southwest said it would formally accept fully-trained psychiatric support animals as trained service animals. The changes would be come into effect on Sept. 17, it added.

Rival Delta Air Lines Inc tightened its requirements for passengers traveling with onboard service and emotional support animals earlier this year, while Alaska Air Group Inc has also introduced new rules.

Reporting by Arunima Banerjee in Bengaluru; Editing by Anil D'Silva
Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.


Qotsaautopilot
08-15-2018, 12:01 PM
Animals should be limited to a small pet in a carrier that stays under the seat and with a paid fee, or a free WORKING service animal. Emotional support animals are a joke. If you can’t afford to board your animal at the vet or pay the under the seat fee you need to drive. If you really need the animal to keep from having a nervous breakdown then you need to drive.

HIFLYR
08-15-2018, 12:18 PM
Animals should be limited to a small pet in a carrier that stays under the seat and with a paid fee, or a free WORKING service animal. Emotional support animals are a joke. If you canít afford to board your animal at the vet or pay the under the seat fee you need to drive. If you really need the animal to keep from having a nervous breakdown then you need to drive.

Absolutely the right answer!


pa24250
08-15-2018, 01:24 PM
Animals should be limited to a small pet in a carrier that stays under the seat and with a paid fee, or a free WORKING service animal. Emotional support animals are a joke. If you canít afford to board your animal at the vet or pay the under the seat fee you need to drive. If you really need the animal to keep from having a nervous breakdown then you need to drive.

Couldn't agree more.

Andy
08-15-2018, 01:40 PM
The U.S. Transportation Department told U.S. airlines in may that they must continue to allow the transport of the most common service animals, but said it was asking for public comment about amending its existing regulations.

DOT needs to COMPLETELY ELIMINATE the requirement to transport emotional support animals. It's become a joke. They also need to tighten up restrictions on service animals.

Let's start a write in campaign to eliminate this joke of a loophole.
https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/dot3618

Comment here:
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2018-0068-1157

Please pass this on. I'm sick and tired of watching passengers who abuse this once legitimate service.

TransWorld
08-15-2018, 04:17 PM
Well, there goes my emotional support porcupine, not to mention my seeing eye lion. FOs really do a double take about the lion. I really cannot imagine why. He is so friendly and likes to lick their hand.

Mesabah
08-15-2018, 04:26 PM
What about turkeys?
http://i67.tinypic.com/6okhg4.jpg

TransWorld
08-15-2018, 04:44 PM
What about turkeys?
http://i67.tinypic.com/6okhg4.jpg

You been flying with me again? Who you calling a turkey?

Dolphinflyer
08-15-2018, 04:56 PM
Where's the pic of the ESA Duck looking out the window at the clouds. Little dude looked like he was enjoying the view more than most pilots and all the pax.

Al Czervik
08-15-2018, 05:11 PM
I have come to believe that animal owners are some of the dumbest folk out there.

badflaps
08-15-2018, 05:34 PM
Where's the pic of the ESA Duck looking out the window at the clouds. Little dude looked like he was enjoying the view more than most pilots and all the pax.
Well sure, when you're not trying to keep formation and flapping your butt off, you can look around a little.

ItnStln
08-15-2018, 05:49 PM
Animals should be limited to a small pet in a carrier that stays under the seat and with a paid fee, or a free WORKING service animal. Emotional support animals are a joke. If you canít afford to board your animal at the vet or pay the under the seat fee you need to drive. If you really need the animal to keep from having a nervous breakdown then you need to drive.

I agree. The emotional support animal fad is a scam.

jcountry
08-15-2018, 06:00 PM
I agree. The emotional support animal fad is a scam.

It usually is.

But my ESA honey badger is the real deal.

If you donít believe in his efficacy, you should probably not let him know.

He will be displeased, and will probably let you know about it.

He donít care.

He donít give a ****.

Just last week, he reached up and slapped a cobra.

TransWorld
08-15-2018, 07:02 PM
It usually is.

But my ESA honey badger is the real deal.

If you don’t believe in his efficacy, you should probably not let him know.

He will be displeased, and will probably let you know about it.

He don’t care.

He don’t give a ****.

Just last week, he reached up and slapped a cobra.

I would like to see him do that to my ESA porcupine.

My seeing eye lion needs something good to roar about.

Excargodog
08-15-2018, 08:04 PM
What's next? An emotional support cow? How could THAT go wrong?

STAMPEDE, EARL........

at6d
08-15-2018, 08:19 PM
Actually, SWA allows small horses. Trained ones, of course.

Cruz Clearance
08-15-2018, 10:57 PM
A scam and a great insult to people who actually need working dogs.

Last time I was in KDEN there were so many fit young people/couples walking around the Terminal with large dogs in emotional support harnesses it was a joke. They just want to be with their dogs all the time and I assume there is no extra charge?

ShyGuy
08-16-2018, 12:28 AM
ESAs for flying was suppose to be a honest, noble thing which was necessary for the mental well being of the individual. But the reality is today most of the ESAs are just scams with regular/normal people getting online certification for their pets to be ESAs and fly with them for free. And with medical and privacy laws being what they are, you can never question a passenger about their medical need for an ESA.

ShyGuy
08-16-2018, 12:33 AM
And then there was Dexter, the emotional support peacock at EWR on a United flight. United refused the peacock.



http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.com/content/fox-news/travel/2018/08/15/dexter-emotional-support-peacock-united-airlines-wouldnt-let-fly-dies-unexpectedly/_jcr_content/article-text/article-par-7/inline_spotlight_ima/image.img.jpg/612/344/1534334035474.jpg?ve=1&tl=1



Sadly, Dexter passed away last month.

Myfingershurt
08-16-2018, 12:37 AM
What's next? An emotional support cow? How could THAT go wrong?

STAMPEDE, EARL........

Iím willing to bet that I am the only one that gets your tremors reference.

ugleeual
08-16-2018, 03:56 AM
What's next? An emotional support cow? How could THAT go wrong?

STAMPEDE, EARL........

Howíd you like to be sitting in that window seat?

tomgoodman
08-16-2018, 04:59 AM
Old McDonnell-Douglas had a farm.....:p

https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/30/travel/emotional-support-pig-booted-flight/index.html

jcountry
08-16-2018, 05:39 AM
And then there was Dexter, the emotional support peacock at EWR on a United flight. United refused the peacock.



http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.com/content/fox-news/travel/2018/08/15/dexter-emotional-support-peacock-united-airlines-wouldnt-let-fly-dies-unexpectedly/_jcr_content/article-text/article-par-7/inline_spotlight_ima/image.img.jpg/612/344/1534334035474.jpg?ve=1&tl=1



Sadly, Dexter passed away last month.

Did he pass away as a result of injuries suffered as they dragged his ass down the aisle and knocked half his teeth out? :)

(We can do this the easy way, or the United Way!)

JamesNoBrakes
08-16-2018, 06:24 AM
ESAs have never been required to be transported in the cabin.

Service animals are different, they "do something", perform a function, for the person. They are highly trained and so on. Regs say the airline must make accommodations for them. Still, within the DOT regulations, there are cut-outs for safety, that if safety requires, they do not have to be accommodated, such as they can't be secured (too large to fit under the seat in front). When it comes to animals, in the cabin, they are cargo and all cargo is required to be secured by regulation. It's also written that the airlines do not have to accommodate unusual requests, like pigs, chickens, etc.

This is likely just another situation where the gate agents are not trained/assertive and they pass the buck on to the flight/cabin crew that has to "deal" with the situation and for lack of creating a scene, they all "let things go" rather than taking a stand. With the right training, it shouldn't ever become an issue.

Viperstick
08-16-2018, 07:51 AM
It's also written that the airlines do not have to accommodate unusual requests, like pigs, chickens, etc.

Will never forget being in the Islamabad Airport and seeing someone carrying a chicken under either arm. Over there, they’re considered NSAs—-nutritional support animals.

TransWorld
08-16-2018, 07:55 AM
Will never forget being in the Islamabad Airport and seeing someone carrying a chicken under either arm. Over there, theyíre considered NSAsó-nutritional support animals.

I remember the chickens in Central America. They were in cages but were put in the hat rack overhead on the DC-3s.

Andy
08-16-2018, 08:13 AM
DOT needs to COMPLETELY ELIMINATE the requirement to transport emotional support animals. It's become a joke. They also need to tighten up restrictions on service animals.

Let's start a write in campaign to eliminate this joke of a loophole.
https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/dot3618

Comment here:
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2018-0068-1157

Please pass this on. I'm sick and tired of watching passengers who abuse this once legitimate service.

For those that choose to comment, I'd suggest that DOT have a 'certified' list of physicians who can approve ESAs and service animals. There are WAY too many scammer doctors out there who pump out letters for $35. Or, to make things easy, a blacklist of physicans whose certification letters are NOT accepted.

ItnStln
08-16-2018, 10:32 AM
It usually is.

But my ESA honey badger is the real deal.

If you donít believe in his efficacy, you should probably not let him know.

He will be displeased, and will probably let you know about it.

He donít care.

He donít give a ****.

Just last week, he reached up and slapped a cobra.

If your ESA honey badger slapped a cobra I now want an ESA honey badger. Where did you get yours?

Excargodog
08-16-2018, 10:37 AM
IN fairness, some of these yahoos MIGHT let their critters be put down in the baggage compartment where they belong if some of you guys would just stop referring to the baggage compartment fire suppression switch as the "puppy snuffer."

ItnStln
08-16-2018, 10:37 AM
This is likely just another situation where the gate agents are not trained/assertive and they pass the buck on to the flight/cabin crew that has to "deal" with the situation and for lack of creating a scene, they all "let things go" rather than taking a stand. With the right training, it shouldn't ever become an issue.

That seems to be the trend in most customer facing positions.

Excargodog
08-16-2018, 10:47 AM
That seems to be the trend in most customer facing positions.

In fairness, when you are raised to believe a game of dodgeball is a life threatening event, and then find yourself confronted by some self-entitled jerk with no impulse control....

deadseal
08-16-2018, 04:08 PM
In fairness, when you are raised to believe a game of dodgeball is a life threatening event, and then find yourself confronted by some self-entitled jerk with no impulse control....

Dodgeball as some life threatening event? Drama queen much? Sad youíre old? Get a grip and kill your television

ItnStln
08-16-2018, 05:32 PM
In fairness, when you are raised to believe a game of dodgeball is a life threatening event, and then find yourself confronted by some self-entitled jerk with no impulse control....

Thatís true.

Excargodog
08-16-2018, 05:45 PM
Dodgeball as some life threatening event? Drama queen much? Sad youíre old? Get a grip and kill your television

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/ken-reed/dodgeball-has-no-place-in_b_5281756.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/06/us/increasingly-schools-move-to-restrict-dodgeball.html

https://www.edutopia.org/discussion/fall-dodgeball-why-schools-are-removing-competitive-elimination-games-their-pe-curriculum

https://www.educationworld.com/a_admin/does-dodgeball-promote-violence-bullying.shtml

https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/dangerous-dodge-ball-4-lawsuits-stemming-from-p-e

Perhaps it's YOU who need to READ something other than APC.

deadseal
08-16-2018, 05:52 PM
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/ken-reed/dodgeball-has-no-place-in_b_5281756.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/06/us/increasingly-schools-move-to-restrict-dodgeball.html

https://www.edutopia.org/discussion/fall-dodgeball-why-schools-are-removing-competitive-elimination-games-their-pe-curriculum

https://www.educationworld.com/a_admin/does-dodgeball-promote-violence-bullying.shtml

https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/dangerous-dodge-ball-4-lawsuits-stemming-from-p-e

Perhaps it's YOU who need to READ something other than APC.

None of these are saying itís a life threatening event so still not sure what you are trying to say. 4 of the articles talk about the social aspect, and the fifth talks about when they had 100 kids in a gym and gave the big kids soccer balls.

Did you even read these? It seems at face value you heard this on fox and it stuck

There is a very consistent trap that older people fall into. Younger generations suck, are weak, flighty, disorganized, etc etc. be wary my friend, or you will die an old curmudgeonly bastard

Fleet Warp
08-16-2018, 05:58 PM
None of these are saying itís a life threatening event so still not sure what you are trying to say grandpa. 4 of the articles talk about the social aspect, and the fifth talks about when they had 100 kids in a gym and gave the big kids soccer balls.

Did you even read these?

Top kek's.

Turbosina
08-16-2018, 06:28 PM
Personally I'd rather travel on a plane filled with 100 dogs than 100 people.

I agree that the ESA thing is getting out of hand, though.

Not that this will ever happen, but I'd love to see a special area in the hold for pets, with extra soundproofing, lighting, and much better attention paid to the poor creatures at the start and end of their trips.

Plus, there should be some kind of limit on how long of a trip animals are allowed to be stuffed in the hold for. We frequently carry animals in the (awful) cargo compartments in the RJ, smack between the engines. These poor beasts often go many, many hours without water or a chance to relieve themselves. It just breaks my heart to be flying the last leg to an outstation at 10 pm and there's a terrified, trembling, dehydrated puppy covered in his own mess, and his bag tag reads something like PIT-ORD-SFO-RDD and you know he's been in that crate for 15 hours. I always want to clean 'em up and let them ride upfront with us, and I'm definitely not the only pilot who's expressed the same thought.

badflaps
08-16-2018, 11:24 PM
[QUOTE=deadseal;26 or you will die an old curmudgeonly bastard[/QUOTE]

Sooo..... Pup, what the **** are my options?:D

LNL76
08-17-2018, 12:01 AM
There is a very consistent trap that older people fall into. Younger generations suck, are weak, flighty, disorganized, etc etc. be wary my friend, or you will die an old curmudgeonly bastard


Sooo..... Pup, what the **** are my options?:D

Isn't it too late for that, badflaps?? :p:D

badflaps
08-17-2018, 05:54 AM
Isn't it too late for that, badflaps?? :p:D

Not according to the time-share salesman.

deadseal
08-17-2018, 05:55 AM
Sooo..... Pup, what the **** are my options?:D

Lol...valid.....

Maybe when you hit 65 you can drink beer, smoke weed, and look at titties all day.

All kidding aside, I am going to make sure that zero ducks are given about politics and society in general when Iím older. Iím sure thatís easier said than done

jcountry
08-17-2018, 07:20 AM
None of these are saying itís a life threatening event so still not sure what you are trying to say. 4 of the articles talk about the social aspect, and the fifth talks about when they had 100 kids in a gym and gave the big kids soccer balls.

Did you even read these? It seems at face value you heard this on fox and it stuck

There is a very consistent trap that older people fall into. Younger generations suck, are weak, flighty, disorganized, etc etc. be wary my friend, or you will die an old curmudgeonly bastard

Well.....

I guess we have figured out exactly which authors took too many shots to the nuts as kids.

(I was really good at dodgeball. The thought that I was responsible for a couple of those nut shots makes me more than a little happy.)

deadseal
08-18-2018, 03:58 PM
Well.....

I guess we have figured out exactly which authors took too many shots to the nuts as kids.

(I was really good at dodgeball. The thought that I was responsible for a couple of those nut shots makes me more than a little happy.)

Omg!! You are so awesome!! What other amazing things have you done?? Do you fly planes? Omg Iím so excited to hear how cool and macho you are!!!


If you wear a fighter tie tack you are a douche

Excargodog
08-18-2018, 05:39 PM
It seems at face value you heard this on fox and it stuck



Now THAT's funny. Actually, I am a radical Progressive.

fadec
08-20-2018, 07:42 AM
Registered Democrats should be allowed to bring emotional support animals on airplanes. The day after Trump won I had the pleasure of sitting next to a distraught millennial, female I suspect, who was furiously twittering and crying into a small dog in her lap. I don't think she would have had the mental stamina to speak truth to power without the support of that dog. I used to be against ESA's but that day I had an empathy orgasm and now realize that ESA'a are a cornerstone of democracy.

LNL76
08-20-2018, 08:16 AM
Registered Democrats should be allowed to bring emotional support animals on airplanes. The day after Trump won I had the pleasure of sitting next to a distraught millennial, female I suspect, who was furiously twittering and crying into a small dog in her lap. I don't think she would have had the mental stamina to speak truth to power without the support of that dog. I used to be against ESA's but that day I had an empathy orgasm and now realize that ESA'a are a cornerstone of democracy.

Love it! :D

Gundriver64
08-20-2018, 10:50 AM
The airlines were collectively stupid opening up this Pandoraís box (dogs on planes).

ItnStln
08-20-2018, 12:57 PM
Registered Democrats should be allowed to bring emotional support animals on airplanes. The day after Trump won I had the pleasure of sitting next to a distraught millennial, female I suspect, who was furiously twittering and crying into a small dog in her lap. I don't think she would have had the mental stamina to speak truth to power without the support of that dog. I used to be against ESA's but that day I had an empathy orgasm and now realize that ESA'a are a cornerstone of democracy.

Indeed, seeing liberals have an emotional breakdown over President Trump is enough to make me vote for him in 2020.

hoover
08-20-2018, 01:11 PM
Howíd you like to be sitting in that window seat?

They buy all three seats and it's a regular thing for them.
I've had them on my flight .

rickair7777
08-21-2018, 06:11 AM
Indeed, seeing liberals have an emotional breakdown over President Trump is enough to make me vote for him in 2020.

Didn't vote for him, but it was entertaining to watch the various hysterical temper tantrums.... my fav was the guy who threw (literally threw) his cat in his suitcase while packing for canada in a fit of rage.

rickair7777
08-21-2018, 06:14 AM
Indeed, seeing liberals have an emotional breakdown over President Trump is enough to make me vote for him in 2020.

Didn't vote for him, but it was entertaining to watch the various hysterical temper tantrums.... my fav was the guy who threw (literally threw) his cat in his suitcase while packing for canada in a fit of rage.

ItnStln
08-21-2018, 07:28 AM
Didn't vote for him, but it was entertaining to watch the various hysterical temper tantrums.... my fav was the guy who threw (literally threw) his cat in his suitcase while packing for canada in a fit of rage.

Indeed it was entertaining, and still is.

Rahlifer
08-21-2018, 02:13 PM
After watching yet another ďserviceĒ animal taking a dump in a gate area and the owner just walking away, I think itís beyond time that companies start cracking down on this bs.

ItnStln
08-21-2018, 05:23 PM
After watching yet another ďserviceĒ animal taking a dump in a gate area and the owner just walking away, I think itís beyond time that companies start cracking down on this bs.

Indeed
filler

tomgoodman
08-21-2018, 05:52 PM
After watching yet another ďserviceĒ animal taking a dump in a gate area and the owner just walking away, I think itís beyond time that companies start cracking down on this bs.

Not as bad as the passenger who took a dump on a service cart back in 1995. :eek:

Unruly Air Passenger Gets Fine, Probation - tribunedigital-chicagotribune (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-05-15/news/9605150125_1_frequent-flyer-program-airliner-aires-to-new)

Fleet Warp
08-21-2018, 06:00 PM
Not as bad as the passenger who took a dump on a service cart back in 1995. :eek:

Unruly Air Passenger Gets Fine, Probation - tribunedigital-chicagotribune (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-05-15/news/9605150125_1_frequent-flyer-program-airliner-aires-to-new)

Well... They were both just *******s

OpenClimb
08-22-2018, 06:37 AM
Not as bad as the passenger who took a dump on a service cart back in 1995. :eek:

Unruly Air Passenger Gets Fine, Probation - tribunedigital-chicagotribune (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-05-15/news/9605150125_1_frequent-flyer-program-airliner-aires-to-new)

Iím always impressed (and maybe even slightly jealous) of people who can poop on command.

jetliner1526
08-23-2018, 05:55 AM
Southwest Airlines Cracking Down on Emotional Support Animals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJqqVy7HWeI&feature=youtu.be

Twister
09-12-2018, 08:17 AM
Southwest: leading the charge back to sanity.

If it were up to me, I'd say "zero" emotional support animals. None. Zip. Nada. A guide dog for a blind person or a dog for a military vet with diagnosed PTSD? You bet. Everybody else? Nope.

Quite frankly, every time I see someone with an "emotional" support animal (not talking service animals) I shudder when I think how pathetically weak they are. Then I thank Heaven above for a mom and a dad who raised me to use my brain. If someone seriously can't hold it together on an airline flight without their stupid purse-dog, they shouldn't be flying at all.

Blue Skys
09-12-2018, 09:50 AM
Twister: I agree 100%.

OOfff
09-12-2018, 09:56 AM
Southwest: leading the charge back to sanity.

If it were up to me, I'd say "zero" emotional support animals. None. Zip. Nada. A guide dog for a blind person or a dog for a military vet with diagnosed PTSD? You bet. Everybody else? Nope.

Quite frankly, every time I see someone with an "emotional" support animal (not talking service animals) I shudder when I think how pathetically weak they are. Then I thank Heaven above for a mom and a dad who raised me to use my brain. If someone seriously can't hold it together on an airline flight without their stupid purse-dog, they shouldn't be flying at all.
Read: ďlook how much better of a person I am than *those* peopleĒ

Larry in TN
09-12-2018, 09:56 AM
If it were up to me, I'd say "zero" emotional support animals. None. Zip. Nada. A guide dog for a blind person or a dog for a military vet with diagnosed PTSD? You bet. Everybody else? Nope.
The Air Carrier Access Act (14 CFR 382) would have to be changed. Contact the DOT and your representatives.

SWA Bubba
09-13-2018, 06:42 AM
Read: ďlook how much better of a person I am than *those* peopleĒ

Well, qualitatively, he IS better ďthan *those* people.Ē As in he can actually function on an airplane without requiring the assistance of an animal in his lap or by his side. As in if something were to happen to said cat/dog/hamster/whatever, he wouldnít be reduced to a useless, quivering, cowering lump of sweaty cargo, unable to fend for himself or complete basic required functions, such as interact successfully in a society or land an airplane.

Jes sayiní

Bubba

Hossharris
09-13-2018, 07:08 AM
Flying isnít for everyone ....

OOfff
09-13-2018, 07:21 AM
Well, qualitatively, he IS better ďthan *those* people.Ē As in he can actually function on an airplane without requiring the assistance of an animal in his lap or by his side. As in if something were to happen to said cat/dog/hamster/whatever, he wouldnít be reduced to a useless, quivering, cowering lump of sweaty cargo, unable to fend for himself or complete basic required functions, such as interact successfully in a society or land an airplane.

Jes sayiní

Bubba
I know, thatís what I said. I, too, was born in Lake Wobegon.

JamesNoBrakes
09-13-2018, 10:02 PM
Southwest: leading the charge back to sanity.

If it were up to me, I'd say "zero" emotional support animals. None. Zip. Nada. A guide dog for a blind person or a dog for a military vet with diagnosed PTSD? You bet. Everybody else? Nope.

Quite frankly, every time I see someone with an "emotional" support animal (not talking service animals) I shudder when I think how pathetically weak they are. Then I thank Heaven above for a mom and a dad who raised me to use my brain. If someone seriously can't hold it together on an airline flight without their stupid purse-dog, they shouldn't be flying at all.
A lady worked at our office that was diagnosed with PTSD from being repeatedly beaten in domestic violence. She had a service animal (read: not an ESA). There is absolutely a huge difference. There are service animals that help people with psychological problems, but the whole ESA thing is a farce. The airlines do not have to accommodate them, but they likely take the blind-eye approach because they don't want to get all the bad press and pay lawyer fees.

But, some people do need this kind of assistance and maybe they are "pathetically weak" to you, but then again, you probably weren't beaten repeatedly for a significant portion of your adult life and constantly living in fear. It may not matter how your mom and dad raised you.

SeamusTheHound
09-13-2018, 10:42 PM
Southwest: leading the charge back to sanity.

If it were up to me, I'd say "zero" emotional support animals. None. Zip. Nada. A guide dog for a blind person or a dog for a military vet with diagnosed PTSD? You bet. Everybody else? Nope.

Quite frankly, every time I see someone with an "emotional" support animal (not talking service animals) I shudder when I think how pathetically weak they are. Then I thank Heaven above for a mom and a dad who raised me to use my brain. If someone seriously can't hold it together on an airline flight without their stupid purse-dog, they shouldn't be flying at all.

Youíre right - the autistic kid and that epileptic woman are so WEAK! Damn, you are just SOOOOO much better than they are. I guess Jesus just loves you a lot more than them, and thatís awesome.

at6d
09-14-2018, 12:02 AM
I fully support service animals per the ADA standards. We raised guide dogs for the blind when I was in high school. Itís really amazing what improvements in a disabled personís life are made when a service animal is in use.

I love pets.

That being said, we all know there are people that fake it. They have a disservice dog. Service animal role appropriation! Itís not only the airlines that are affected, either. Restaurants, rental properties, and other places have to deal with the phonies, too.

I had a Rottweiler casually stroll up into the flight deck about a month ago, check things out and then took up the entire floor space in the first row. The look on the middle paxís face would have made a great picture.

While I empathize with minority (not race related) pet people passengers with emotional needs, I also am also concerned about the other passengers in the majority. Many are inconvenienced when a huge Lab cramps the legroom. Some have pet allergies. And god forbid a sketchy ESA bites somebody (it has happened).

The airlines need the ability to draw the line somewhere.

badflaps
09-14-2018, 02:35 AM
The airlines have themselves to blame, they have been bending over backwards for fifty years spoiling the travelling public rotten. The result is a customer base that feels entitled. I'm just waiting for them to show up in their "Jammies" (Small children excepted.) I watch AmTrak on You Tube, they have no problem tossing somebody off the train..... You never hear a squeek.

sailingfun
09-14-2018, 03:08 AM
Youíre right - the autistic kid and that epileptic woman are so WEAK! Damn, you are just SOOOOO much better than they are. I guess Jesus just loves you a lot more than them, and thatís awesome.

They would have a trained service animal not a ESA.

captjns
09-14-2018, 03:27 AM
Passenger with allergies of pet hair, dander or what ever.


Who gets voted off the island:rolleyes:... the above or the pax with the service animal?

Larry in TN
09-14-2018, 06:40 AM
The airlines need the ability to draw the line somewhere.
Airlines must comply with the Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA: 14 CFR 382) which requires the acceptance of emotional support animals.

Contact the DOT and your representatives. They are the only ones that can change it.

at6d
09-14-2018, 09:04 AM
Airlines must comply with the Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA: 14 CFR 382) which requires the acceptance of emotional support animals.

Contact the DOT and your representatives. They are the only ones that can change it.

The airlines have rights, too. From the CFR 382.117:

(e) If a passenger seeks to travel with an animal that is used as an emotional support or psychiatric service animal, you are not required to accept the animal for transportation in the cabin unless the passenger provides you current documentation (i.e., no older than one year from the date of the passenger's scheduled initial flight) on the letterhead of a licensed mental health professional (e.g., psychiatrist, psychologist, licensed clinical social worker, including a medical doctor specifically treating the passenger's mental or emotional disability) stating the following:

(1) The passenger has a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition (DSM IV);

(2) The passenger needs the emotional support or psychiatric service animal as an accommodation for air travel and/or for activity at the passenger's destination;

(3) The individual providing the assessment is a licensed mental health professional, and the passenger is under his or her professional care; and

(4) The date and type of the mental health professional's license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued.

(f) You are never required to accommodate certain unusual service animals (e.g., snakes, other reptiles, ferrets, rodents, and spiders) as service animals in the cabin. With respect to all other animals, including unusual or exotic animals that are presented as service animals (e.g., miniature horses, pigs, monkeys), as a carrier you must determine whether any factors preclude their traveling in the cabin as service animals (e.g., whether the animal is too large or heavy to be accommodated in the cabin, whether the animal would pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others, whether it would cause a significant disruption of cabin service, whether it would be prohibited from entering a foreign country that is the flight's destination). If no such factors preclude the animal from traveling in the cabin, you must permit it to do so. However, as a foreign carrier, you are not required to carry service animals other than dogs.

(g) Whenever you decide not to accept an animal as a service animal, you must explain the reason for your decision to the passenger and document it in writing. A copy of the explanation must be provided to the passenger either at the airport, or within 10 calendar days of the incident.

(h) You must promptly take all steps necessary to comply with foreign regulations (e.g., animal health regulations) needed to permit the legal transportation of a passenger's service animal from the U.S. into a foreign airport.

(i) Guidance concerning the carriage of service animals generally is found in the preamble of this rule. Guidance on the steps necessary to legally transport service animals on flights from the U.S. into the United Kingdom is found in 72 FR 8268-8277, (February 26, 2007).

Larry in TN
09-14-2018, 11:01 AM
The airlines do require the documentation for ESAs.

CardboardCutout
09-14-2018, 11:11 AM
Right, and they accept it written in crayon.

"Dear Airlines. Petie the Pittbull is a very good dog and in my doctor opinion Petie should always be with me. I mean Bob. - A. Doctor"

pangolin
09-14-2018, 11:17 AM
Flying is unnatural. I agree that probably 80% of the "Emotional support animals" are there just to fly for free. However, as in the PTSD cases and others with anxiety disorders - I think it can help. They spend time thinking about the animal and how the animal is reacting and it takes the stress/attention off of themselves.

For a reality check - watch some first flight or first airplane ride videos on You Tube. People truly do have trepidation. Flying has become safer and it is safer than the drive to the airport but its hardly natural or "normal". I think there's some middle ground here.

Southwest: leading the charge back to sanity.

If it were up to me, I'd say "zero" emotional support animals. None. Zip. Nada. A guide dog for a blind person or a dog for a military vet with diagnosed PTSD? You bet. Everybody else? Nope.

Quite frankly, every time I see someone with an "emotional" support animal (not talking service animals) I shudder when I think how pathetically weak they are. Then I thank Heaven above for a mom and a dad who raised me to use my brain. If someone seriously can't hold it together on an airline flight without their stupid purse-dog, they shouldn't be flying at all.

Excargodog
09-14-2018, 11:59 AM
Flying is unnatural.

Yeah.

And so are cars, trains, busses, subways, and every other form of transportation excepting shank's ponies (and even then if they aren't barefoot). So what?

You think it's natural for someone to become dysfunctional without their Chihuahua?

You're right. Eighty percent of these people are faking it. The other twenty percent are diagnosed crazies who shouldn't be allowed on an aircraft either.

joepilot
09-14-2018, 12:32 PM
Emotional support animals are not required to be "certified".

The Owner needs to be certified by a licensed mental health professional as being emotionally unstable enough to need the emotional support animal.


There are a large number of people, in a large number of jobs (including pilots), who cannot afford to be diagnosed as emotionally unstable.


Making these people get this mental health diagnosis (every year) will eliminate most people claiming this fraudulently. It has worked for me in my rental business.


Joe

ItnStln
09-14-2018, 01:07 PM
Passenger with allergies of pet hair, dander or what ever.


Who gets voted off the island:rolleyes:... the above or the pax with the service animal?

Iíve always wondered that.

TransWorld
09-14-2018, 02:56 PM
Passenger with allergies of pet hair, dander or what ever.

Who gets voted off the island:rolleyes:... the above or the pax with the service animal?

My emotional support porcupine goes with me everywhere. His name is Peanuts. If a PAX is allergic to Peanuts, they get voted off the island.

captjns
09-14-2018, 03:14 PM
My emotional support porcupine goes with me everywhere. His name is Peanuts. If a PAX is allergic to Peanuts, they get voted off the island.

Iíll second that vote.

fadec
09-18-2018, 06:08 PM
Emotional support animals are not required to be "certified".

The Owner needs to be certified by a licensed mental health professional as being emotionally unstable enough to need the emotional support animal.


There are a large number of people, in a large number of jobs (including pilots), who cannot afford to be diagnosed as emotionally unstable.


Making these people get this mental health diagnosis (every year) will eliminate most people claiming this fraudulently. It has worked for me in my rental business.


Joe


Fewer rights for regular salt-of-the-earth working people. Useless eaters, wannabes, and trust fund kids will have a medical marijuana license and an emotional support animal along with all the necessary illnesses.

Beaverbeliever
09-18-2018, 10:30 PM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but I've heard people who go the ESA route when traveling by air just to avoid checking their animals. The number of animals that die every year while under the airlines supervision is higher than I would have guessed. Not excusing people who defraud the airlines to allow their animals to fly in coach with them, but certainly a different perspective.

Xray678
09-19-2018, 05:15 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but I've heard people who go the ESA route when traveling by air just to avoid checking their animals. The number of animals that die every year while under the airlines supervision is higher than I would have guessed. Not excusing people who defraud the airlines to allow their animals to fly in coach with them, but certainly a different perspective.

Leave your animal at home then. The cabin of an airliner is no place for personal pets.

Rahlifer
09-19-2018, 07:11 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but I've heard people who go the ESA route when traveling by air just to avoid checking their animals. The number of animals that die every year while under the airlines supervision is higher than I would have guessed. Not excusing people who defraud the airlines to allow their animals to fly in coach with them, but certainly a different perspective.

Some people absolutely rely on service animals to go about their daily lives. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people nowadays just use it as an excuse to legally take their pets anywhere and everywhere. Thousands of websites gleefully advertise and sell ďservice animalĒ vests and ID cards. I normally donít give a **** what most other people do, but I do get annoyed when I see someoneís pet doing itís business on a restaurant floor or hopping up and licking the produce in a grocery store. Yes, Iíve witnessed both.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=emWiW5u5EY24tQXWuIz4Cg&ins=true&q=service+animal+vest&oq=&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.41l3.0.0..380984...0.0..0.0.0.......0.... 1.......3.grV6SqkrueA

A Squared
09-19-2018, 07:17 AM
The airlines have rights, too. From the CFR 382.117:

(e) If a passenger seeks to travel with an animal that is used as an emotional support or psychiatric service animal, you are not required to accept the animal for transportation in the cabin unless the passenger provides you current documentation (i.e., no older than one year from the date of the passenger's scheduled initial flight) on the letterhead of a licensed mental health professional (e.g., psychiatrist, psychologist, licensed clinical social worker, including a medical doctor specifically treating the passenger's mental or emotional disability) stating the following:

(1) The passenger has a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition (DSM IV);

(2) The passenger needs the emotional support or psychiatric service animal as an accommodation for air travel and/or for activity at the passenger's destination;

(3) The individual providing the assessment is a licensed mental health professional, and the passenger is under his or her professional care; and

(4) The date and type of the mental health professional's license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued.

(f) You are never required to accommodate certain unusual service animals (e.g., snakes, other reptiles, ferrets, rodents, and spiders) as service animals in the cabin. With respect to all other animals, including unusual or exotic animals that are presented as service animals (e.g., miniature horses, pigs, monkeys), as a carrier you must determine whether any factors preclude their traveling in the cabin as service animals (e.g., whether the animal is too large or heavy to be accommodated in the cabin, whether the animal would pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others, whether it would cause a significant disruption of cabin service, whether it would be prohibited from entering a foreign country that is the flight's destination). If no such factors preclude the animal from traveling in the cabin, you must permit it to do so. However, as a foreign carrier, you are not required to carry service animals other than dogs.

(g) Whenever you decide not to accept an animal as a service animal, you must explain the reason for your decision to the passenger and document it in writing. A copy of the explanation must be provided to the passenger either at the airport, or within 10 calendar days of the incident.

(h) You must promptly take all steps necessary to comply with foreign regulations (e.g., animal health regulations) needed to permit the legal transportation of a passenger's service animal from the U.S. into a foreign airport.

(i) Guidance concerning the carriage of service animals generally is found in the preamble of this rule. Guidance on the steps necessary to legally transport service animals on flights from the U.S. into the United Kingdom is found in 72 FR 8268-8277, (February 26, 2007).




OK, well about those rights ... you're a gate agent. I show up to board with an animal. I give you a letter on a letterhead I made up in Word, dated a few months ago, has a name with a degree listed after it and a reference to an ostensibly current board certification. Claims I'm under his/her care, date of last visit (less than a year), etc. The office address on the letterhead is 3 states away. Real or not? How much time do you want to put into determining if this doctor is real, and really is a doctor? How do you even start with that? What are the possible repercussions for you if you decide that my letter is bogus, and it turns out that there really is a shrink by that name in that town and I really am being treated by him, and he really did write the letter, and I sue?

at6d
09-19-2018, 08:42 AM
The gate agent will operate within the scope of the airlineís policy.

I had a recent discussion with one of our companyís lawyers (he was on a flight I crewed). His job was solely defending the company in passenger legal suits.

Airlines are sued all the time. If it comes out they were wrong, they settle.

If you are a fraud, then what?

If you are disabled for real, the ADA has provisions in place.

If you are a phony, then you donít get to play.

Rahlifer
09-19-2018, 08:57 AM
Some people absolutely rely on service animals to go about their daily lives. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people nowadays just use it as an excuse to legally take their pets anywhere and everywhere. Thousands of websites gleefully advertise and sell ďservice animalĒ vests and ID cards. I normally donít give a **** what most other people do, but I do get annoyed when I see someoneís pet doing itís business on a restaurant floor or hopping up and licking the produce in a grocery store. Yes, Iíve witnessed both.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=emWiW5u5EY24tQXWuIz4Cg&ins=true&q=service+animal+vest&oq=&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.41l3.0.0..380984...0.0..0.0.0.......0.... 1.......3.grV6SqkrueA

I didn't realize I screwed up the google link. It was just a search that showed the crazy number websites catering to the fraudsters.

Larry in TN
09-19-2018, 11:45 AM
If you are disabled for real, the ADA has provisions in place.
Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA). The ADA doesn't apply to air travel.

The ADA doesn't have any provisions for emotional support animals so, if it were the ADA, we wouldn't have this problem.

The ACAA is 14 CFR 382 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-382).

at6d
09-19-2018, 03:03 PM
Thatís my point. EMO animals we are discussing arenít service dogs. You saw my earlier post detailing the CFR you cited, right?



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