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View Full Version : JB vs. AA dependability policy


queue
08-18-2018, 08:21 AM
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2018/08/17/american-airlines-flight-attendants-hate-policy.html


AA flight attendants should be lauded for fighting meanwhile we raised the white flag on this issue. Our "contract" only legitimized the Dependability Policy. The "Commuter Policy", even if followed, still results in data usable against you via the Dependability Policy. For example, if you have an emergency, that incident is still usable against you with the Dependability Policy.... read both and see for yourself. The Commuter Policy, even if followed, does not insulate you from the Dependability Policy. If you ever do something by mistake that makes BJ look bad, or you otherwise get on their bad side, you will be "terminated with cause" because every little infraction goes into your secret folder and you cannot contest it. ALPA will claim that you may be fired, but they will always get you re-hired. This doesn't change the fact that you will forever have a stain on your record for eternity, making it hard to ever get employment at any other respectable company. The Dependability Policy has no published rules. It is a tool by management, for management, to use when they want to get rid of someone. This is a HUGE failure of the people who we trusted to write the contract. They will give all kinds of excuses but in the end, everything is negotiable -- except for governmental laws and the laws of physics.


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.


dontsurf
08-19-2018, 09:28 AM
...any other respectable company.

so you are now saying that jetblue is a respectable company?

crash312
08-19-2018, 04:04 PM
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2018/08/17/american-airlines-flight-attendants-hate-policy.html


ALPA will claim that you may be fired, but they will always get you re-hired. This doesn't change the fact that you will forever have a stain on your record for eternity, making it hard to ever get employment at any other respectable company.




Not how that works and please explain the "stain" on your record.


sflpilot
08-19-2018, 04:30 PM
Not how that works and please explain the "stain" on your record.

If JetBlue fires you and ALPA can’t get you back then you will have a disciplinary termination on your PRIA. Even if they do get you back you would still have to disclose what happened on applications at future airlines. Because if you lie and they figure it out, which they will through your logbooks, your toast.

SpeedV2
08-19-2018, 06:23 PM
A PRIA is an FAA form not an HR form as would be dictated by a disciplinary firing. Now if you go through adjudication and it is found to be a just cause firing this is now a court document thus public record. Most companies will only give another company information on hire and separation dates. They can provide information on why a separation took place but this is entirely up to the companies policies and procedures.

BeatNavy
08-20-2018, 12:38 AM
I believe every airline app out there has a question about “why you left” or “have you ever had any discipline issues” or “have you ever been terminated or asked to resign.” So there’s that.

seekingblue
08-20-2018, 03:41 AM
Honest question-

Has anyone ever been unfairly disciplined here? Say what you want about how our operation is run, but I’ve never heard anything except, “thanks for trying to get here,” when I was OOP. I’ve never heard of anyone getting a different answer than that.

Infact, the only story I’ve heard about someone getting fired for being OOP, was someone who would repeatedly sit RSV at home (5 states away) and just call in OOP if he got called.

Bottom line, do your job as well as you can. Be honest about trying to get to work, and It will be fine.

queue
08-22-2018, 11:03 AM
Honest question-

Has anyone ever been unfairly disciplined here? Say what you want about how our operation is run, but I’ve never heard anything except, “thanks for trying to get here,” when I was OOP. I’ve never heard of anyone getting a different answer than that.

Infact, the only story I’ve heard about someone getting fired for being OOP, was someone who would repeatedly sit RSV at home (5 states away) and just call in OOP if he got called.

Bottom line, do your job as well as you can. Be honest about trying to get to work, and It will be fine.


Yes, they have. But the circumstances cannot be discussed here.



One thing you have to understand is that you're dealing with a corporation who makes only legal decisions when deciding a course of action. Do not misplace your emotions about these people. They will only do things by legal rationale. If you say things like what you said, it merely indicates the blue juice brainwashing is effective in using your "humanity" core value to exploit you into their objective of "control". This is business, not love making. Lots of people sell out their profession and their peers because their employer tells them they're not "team players", or some other corporate double-speak.



Whether someone has or has not been persecuted is immaterial. The point is that it exists in writing and is now effective under the power of contract law. If they didn't intend to ever use it, it wouldn't be written in the contract. It doesn't matter if anyone has or hasn't been unfairly treated.

Papa Bear
08-25-2018, 02:57 AM
Honest question-

Has anyone ever been unfairly disciplined here? Say what you want about how our operation is run, but I’ve never heard anything except, “thanks for trying to get here,” when I was OOP. I’ve never heard of anyone getting a different answer than that.

Infact, the only story I’ve heard about someone getting fired for being OOP, was someone who would repeatedly sit RSV at home (5 states away) and just call in OOP if he got called.

Bottom line, do your job as well as you can. Be honest about trying to get to work, and It will be fine.

You know I will agree with you on this one but I see the point being made. I get a dependability email at least twice a year. RSV totally blows and the wife works so it’s tuff getting things covered sometimes.
Only once I got an email about a “request for additional information” about a sick call. Boom goes the dynamite I sent in a doctors note...To be honest with you I was really ****ed about being asked to provide one because I have never been sick on holidays, or ever OOP or traveling on sick days... Never heard a word about it after that... (I’m probably on double secret probation) ...I continued to be ****ed about it so I called in sick for a whole weekend...you know to cool off:) I got another dependability review, but this time however I got a “no need to respond email after looking at your records...”

So I don’t get this policy implementation, seems random to me.
But from the companies point of view...What recourse would the company have if they didn’t have it.
If I was on RSV getting called to fly SDQ red eye turns with the new guys all the time because (plane Jane) is in NC on SCL in JFK banging out sick every 0300 show time ...ya I would want the CP to do something about it.

On the flip side...if you are a target let’s say...you file a grievance and it’s going to cost the company big bucks...and months later you have a late report and they bring up a dependability review...They could give you the option of resigning, or dropping your grievance.
(Because that could never happen?)

symbian simian
08-28-2018, 12:02 PM
You know I will agree with you on this one but I see the point being made. I get a dependability email at least twice a year. RSV totally blows and the wife works so it’s tuff getting things covered sometimes.
Only once I got an email about a “request for additional information” about a sick call. Boom goes the dynamite I sent in a doctors note...To be honest with you I was really ****ed about being asked to provide one because I have never been sick on holidays, or ever OOP or traveling on sick days... Never heard a word about it after that... (I’m probably on double secret probation) ...I continued to be ****ed about it so I called in sick for a whole weekend...you know to cool off:) I got another dependability review, but this time however I got a “no need to respond email after looking at your records...”

So I don’t get this policy implementation, seems random to me.
But from the companies point of view...What recourse would the company have if they didn’t have it.
If I was on RSV getting called to fly SDQ red eye turns with the new guys all the time because (plane Jane) is in NC on SCL in JFK banging out sick every 0300 show time ...ya I would want the CP to do something about it.

On the flip side...if you are a target let’s say...you file a grievance and it’s going to cost the company big bucks...and months later you have a late report and they bring up a dependability review...They could give you the option of resigning, or dropping your grievance.
(Because that could never happen?)


Exactly! I worked for a company where a lot of people did stupid stuff because they were legitimately afraid of having to do a carpet dance. I never worried much because I felt I did my job well, but still, I heard several stories about good guys getting nailed for doing the right thing. I also flew with a guy who was put back on probation after 6 years with the company, and fired after not improving. I felt bad for him, but all of us were better off without him. I always think SWA gets the mix right by having a really active pro-standards committee, if you don’t play the game right you will hear from them before you hear from management (disclaimer: hearsay).
The compay should provide adequate staffing, you calling in sick should nog affect that. You hosing your colleagues by calling sick every Xmas might be better handled by the union?

queue
09-06-2018, 11:12 AM
Exactly! I worked for a company where a lot of people did stupid stuff because they were legitimately afraid of having to do a carpet dance. I never worried much because I felt I did my job well, but still, I heard several stories about good guys getting nailed for doing the right thing. I also flew with a guy who was put back on probation after 6 years with the company, and fired after not improving. I felt bad for him, but all of us were better off without him. I always think SWA gets the mix right by having a really active pro-standards committee, if you don’t play the game right you will hear from them before you hear from management (disclaimer: hearsay).
The compay should provide adequate staffing, you calling in sick should nog affect that. You hosing your colleagues by calling sick every Xmas might be better handled by the union?


That's what I pushed for well before in the TA came out. I also wanted to eliminate HR from the equation unless they were involved in processing paperwork. HR is a big social justice warrior organization of mediocrity, at any company. I prefer that the company's role be minimal unless someone is convicted by a court of law, otherwise it's just a scapegoat process like what happened to that Alaska pilot. The DP is another variation of a draconian policy that should have never made it past any of us during the TA vote and especially not past any ALPA negotiator, MEC, or lawyer. This was a multilevel failure. 78%....



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