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ROCKETM8
08-21-2018, 09:12 AM
Does anyone have any stories on which external iPad GPS works across the globe through those heavy cockpit windows?

Reading the Amazon reviews is mixed. Looking at the Bad Elf Pro vs Pro+ with GLONASS. Any problems using it through those windows?


galaxy flyer
08-21-2018, 02:28 PM
I use ones the installed in the plane by Collins.

GF

jcountry
08-21-2018, 06:22 PM
I use ones the installed in the plane by Collins.

GF

I'm thinking that's a smart option.....

And costs me #0.00


captjns
08-21-2018, 06:25 PM
I'm thinking that's a smart option.....

And costs me #0.00

I get paid to push the buttons on the FMC which in turn provides me wit the same info. Honeywell, Collins, Garmin, its all the same [email protected]

ps2sunvalley
08-21-2018, 08:19 PM
Iíve used bad elf and Stratus, both have had no issues acquiring signal and holding GPS signal.


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ps2sunvalley
08-21-2018, 08:20 PM
Jjj


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at6d
08-21-2018, 11:29 PM
In another life we used portable units in a corporate jetóseems the heated windows cause some issues.

hilltopflyer
08-22-2018, 04:18 AM
Are you a pilot at an airline? Itís never crossed my mind to use one myself. Only reasons I could think of would be bad situations.

742Dash
08-22-2018, 04:24 AM
Are you a pilot at an airline? Itís never crossed my mind to use one myself. Only reasons I could think of would be bad situations.

They can be a godsend at large airports in low visibility.

trip
08-22-2018, 06:29 AM
Seen one hanging in the Airbus window once when jumpseating. The F/O said you want the Glonass if your flying high in the northern hemisphere because it works a lot better(more satellites up north).

galaxy flyer
08-22-2018, 06:37 AM
Seen one hanging in the Airbus window once when jumpseating. The F/O said you want the Glonass if your flying high in the northern hemisphere because it works a lot better(more satellites up north).

Fair enough, but I canít believe heís using for navigation.

GF

jcountry
08-22-2018, 06:54 AM
Seen one hanging in the Airbus window once when jumpseating. The F/O said you want the Glonass if your flying high in the northern hemisphere because it works a lot better(more satellites up north).
Congrats.

Apparently all nerds got together and elected a king.

Looks like you met him.

sailingfun
08-22-2018, 07:54 AM
No one is using it for Navigation. They are using it for own ship positioning on IPad EFBís. Itís a very nice feature to have in the fog in CDG or any other complex airport.

galaxy flyer
08-22-2018, 08:06 AM
Sorry, I had it on the MFD and the displayed Jepp chart, since about 2008.

GF

IDIOTPILOT
08-22-2018, 09:31 AM
Now that the FAA allows ownship on approach and arrival charts, it makes a huge difference. The internal iPad GPS often won’t get a good enough lock.

ItnStln
08-22-2018, 09:43 AM
Would a Bad Elf be better than a Stratus?

IDIOTPILOT
08-22-2018, 10:41 AM
Would a Bad Elf be better than a Stratus?

Those are very different things. One costs way more than the other. If your company letís you also use ADSB data then sure go for it.

ItnStln
08-22-2018, 11:41 AM
Those are very different things. One costs way more than the other. If your company let’s you also use ADSB data then sure go for it.

I thought the Stratus had a built in GPS so that's why I asked since I was looking at one but heard good things about Bad Elf as well.
Would the Bluetooth or plug-in Bad Elf be better?

IDIOTPILOT
08-22-2018, 11:53 AM
Stratus has built in GPS but it’s way more expensive while providing much more info. Definitely not an apples to apples comparison.

Plug in is gonna limit options with cases and mounts.

I’ve been noticing the bad elf not holding GPS lock a few times. I can’t tell if from windshield heat, higher alts, or fast ground speeds. Maybe a combo of all. But definitely better than the internal iPad GPS.

ItnStln
08-22-2018, 02:40 PM
Stratus has built in GPS but itís way more expensive while providing much more info. Definitely not an apples to apples comparison.

Plug in is gonna limit options with cases and mounts.

Iíve been noticing the bad elf not holding GPS lock a few times. I canít tell if from windshield heat, higher alts, or fast ground speeds. Maybe a combo of all. But definitely better than the internal iPad GPS.
Thanks, that makes sense with the plug-in Bad Elf. Is there a particular model you would recommend?

Borden Drousy
08-25-2018, 08:12 AM
Disclaimer: my company does not permit the use of these devices so I have no first hand knowledge. However, a friend told me he returned the Bad Elf.



It didn't get a strong enough signal to show a position in the 319, 320,321. He went with the Garmin Glo and gets a position most of the time. Seems the newer 321's give it the most interference. Someone said it's the window heat that causes the problems.


Great for taxi and doesn't break the bank.

m3113n1a1
08-25-2018, 09:38 AM
Are you a pilot at an airline? Itís never crossed my mind to use one myself. Only reasons I could think of would be bad situations.

Delta allows it and even gives us a discount on one. (I don't have one though, too lazy)

galaxy flyer
08-25-2018, 02:04 PM
I still canít believe you need a GPS antenna and iPad to display own-ship on charts. Thatís decade old technology to put it on the MFD with the chart.

GF

IDIOTPILOT
08-25-2018, 03:37 PM
Disclaimer: my company does not permit the use of these devices so I have no first hand knowledge. However, a friend told me he returned the Bad Elf.



It didn't get a strong enough signal to show a position in the 319, 320,321. He went with the Garmin Glo and gets a position most of the time. Seems the newer 321's give it the most interference. Someone said it's the window heat that causes the problems.


Great for taxi and doesn't break the bank.

Been finding it needs to be at the very back window for Airbus. Kinda annoying.

trip
08-26-2018, 07:05 AM
I still canít believe you need a GPS antenna and iPad to display own-ship on charts. Thatís decade old technology to put it on the MFD with the chart.

GF

Airlines have always been ten years behind on tech stuff. When your fleet is 500-1000 airframes you don't just go out and throw in the latest gadgets.
This EFB business is still pretty new and a little moving airplane on the EFB map is pure wizardry.

symbian simian
08-26-2018, 02:17 PM
Dual 160, works on older 319/320, does not on newer 320/321. I think the garmin is better.

echelon
08-27-2018, 02:55 AM
Why anyone (flying professionally at least, no idea about OP's situation) would spend a dime of their own money on extra gear like this is beyond me. If you really can't get the job done with the tools that are provided for you by your employer, isn't that your employer's problem? Besides, somehow airline pilots have managed to get people safely where they need to go for many decades now without the use of personal GPS receivers. If someone else wants to pay to marginally enhance my situational awareness, fine, but it definitely won't be coming out of my pocket.

symbian simian
08-27-2018, 01:18 PM
Why anyone (flying professionally at least, no idea about OP's situation) would spend a dime of their own money on extra gear like this is beyond me. If you really can't get the job done with the tools that are provided for you by your employer, isn't that your employer's problem? Besides, somehow airline pilots have managed to get people safely where they need to go for many decades now without the use of personal GPS receivers. If someone else wants to pay to marginally enhance my situational awareness, fine, but it definitely won't be coming out of my pocket.

On the A320 there no ETE indication. I spent $80, and now I can see how much longer before we land without having to do math. My employer probably expects me to be able to do math so they are unwilling to spend the money. I am also not asking for your contribution to my college fund so calm down....

captjns
08-27-2018, 01:26 PM
On the A320 there no ETE indication. I spent $80, and now I can see how much longer before we land without having to do math. My employer probably expects me to be able to do math so they are unwilling to spend the money. I am also not asking for your contribution to my college fund so calm down....

I guess my operators went the big bucks...
Prog Page 1 with ETA to destination... even fuel remaining too:eek:
Legs Page ETA of each fix... good for FIRs too.
But that’s Honeywell and Smiths.... not familiar what’s installed in the Airbus, Bombardier, or Embraer.

OPF column with remaining time at each leg. No muss nor fuss.

echelon
08-27-2018, 02:16 PM
On the A320 there no ETE indication. I spent $80, and now I can see how much longer before we land without having to do math. My employer probably expects me to be able to do math so they are unwilling to spend the money. I am also not asking for your contribution to my college fund so calm down....

Lmao you really spent $80 on essentially a countdown timer that your phone (and your brain, with a minute or two of intense focus) has for free? I guess money really does grow on trees :D :D :D

Silver02ex
08-27-2018, 03:18 PM
Why anyone (flying professionally at least, no idea about OP's situation) would spend a dime of their own money on extra gear like this is beyond me. If you really can't get the job done with the tools that are provided for you by your employer, isn't that your employer's problem? Besides, somehow airline pilots have managed to get people safely where they need to go for many decades now without the use of personal GPS receivers. If someone else wants to pay to marginally enhance my situational awareness, fine, but it definitely won't be coming out of my pocket.

Same reason some of us buy our own headset, or uniform pants and shirts. Even though the company provide those. Some of us have our own preference.

badflaps
08-27-2018, 03:58 PM
In the day the F/O had to file a plan or at least make one out to proof the teletype dispatch message. You can bet he knew how much fuel was left and approx gate arrival. There was a space for up hill both ways too.......I'll bet there are few now that can even read the winds aloft much less the stations reporting.

ReadyRsv
08-27-2018, 04:53 PM
On the A320 there no ETE indication. I spent $80, and now I can see how much longer before we land without having to do math. My employer probably expects me to be able to do math so they are unwilling to spend the money. I am also not asking for your contribution to my college fund so calm down....

You have your eta and a clock.

symbian simian
08-28-2018, 05:24 PM
Lmao you really spent $80 on essentially a countdown timer that your phone (and your brain, with a minute or two of intense focus) has for free? I guess money really does grow on trees :D :D :D

Seeing as your phone is probably more than $80 more expensive than mine....

symbian simian
08-28-2018, 05:25 PM
You have your eta and a clock.

That's the problem, there is no ETE

echelon
08-28-2018, 08:01 PM
Seeing as your phone is probably more than $80 more expensive than mine....

Wrenwane Digital Kitchen Timer, No Frills, Simple Operation, Big Digits, Loud Alarm, Magnetic Backing, Stand
(https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GOPICNM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_yxHHBbKM7PJ5H)

Here's a timer for $10. What's your point? My phone serves thousands of functions, by the way, not just addition and subtraction.

And I don't know or care what kind of phone you have. I just assumed that if you're willing to spend a ridiculously inordinate amount of money to compensate for your inability to perform arithmetic and to provide yourself with an almost meaningless, and most certainly laughably insignificant, convenience, then you're the type of person who would own a smartphone by 2018. And every smartphone has a timer function.

symbian simian
08-28-2018, 08:39 PM
Wrenwane Digital Kitchen Timer, No Frills, Simple Operation, Big Digits, Loud Alarm, Magnetic Backing, Stand
(https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GOPICNM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_yxHHBbKM7PJ5H)

Here's a timer for $10. What's your point? My phone serves thousands of functions, by the way, not just addition and subtraction.

And I don't know or care what kind of phone you have. I just assumed that if you're willing to spend a ridiculously inordinate amount of money to compensate for your inability to perform arithmetic and to provide yourself with an almost meaningless, and most certainly laughably insignificant, convenience, then you're the type of person who would own a smartphone by 2018. And every smartphone has a timer function.

Almost bought the timer, then I realized it doesnít correct for rerouting.

echelon
08-28-2018, 08:57 PM
Almost bought the timer, then I realized it doesnít correct for rerouting.

Ahhh but the ETA on the F-PLN page does. And the clock provides constant time... So again, you spent $80 to avoid using your brain. And unless whatever you bought interfaces with the FMGC then you'd still need to input every route change right? Anyway, if you're so bored that you need to know how much longer until you land, why don't you take a minute, get out your fingers and toes and maybe a piece of paper and a crayon, and just subtract the time on the clock from the ETA on the F-PLN?

It's your money, you do you. The only reason I brought it up initially is just that I don't think your $80 whatever-the-hell-it-is-you-bought situation helps OP's case for spending his or her own money on extra equipment that doesn't change the outcome of a flight from "safe and legal" to "more safe and more legal."

ReadyRsv
08-28-2018, 10:51 PM
That's the problem, there is no ETE

Are you joking? The FMGC shows ETA. Looking at a clock (located right above the FOs FMGC you can figure out how long it will take to get there.

symbian simian
08-29-2018, 10:25 AM
Are you joking? The FMGC shows ETA. Looking at a clock (located right above the FOs FMGC you can figure out how long it will take to get there.

Mostly joking. I do put the route in ForeFlight, and like seeing the ETA at a glance without having to think. Mostly bought it because I flew a jet before that had Jepps on the MFD and I got used to seeing my airplane on the charts. Doing a lot of redeye jungle turns, it is nice to always know have the MORA in view in case of problems. I feel all that is well worth $80 of my own money, although it sounds like a lot of people think it is a big splurge to spend one nights dinner/drinks money on it.

symbian simian
08-29-2018, 10:32 AM
Ahhh but the ETA on the F-PLN page does. And the clock provides constant time... So again, you spent $80 to avoid using your brain. And unless whatever you bought interfaces with the FMGC then you'd still need to input every route change right? Anyway, if you're so bored that you need to know how much longer until you land, why don't you take a minute, get out your fingers and toes and maybe a piece of paper and a crayon, and just subtract the time on the clock from the ETA on the F-PLN?

It's your money, you do you. The only reason I brought it up initially is just that I don't think your $80 whatever-the-hell-it-is-you-bought situation helps OP's case for spending his or her own money on extra equipment that doesn't change the outcome of a flight from "safe and legal" to "more safe and more legal."

It definitely isnít more legal as we are not supposed to use Bluetooth GPS, and not sure if you can call it safer, I just like the extra situational awareness. Worth $80 to me, apparently not to you....

echelon
08-29-2018, 11:03 AM
It definitely isnít more legal as we are not supposed to use Bluetooth GPS, and not sure if you can call it safer, I just like the extra situational awareness. Worth $80 to me, apparently not to you....

Fair enough.

sailingfun
09-01-2018, 07:04 PM
It definitely isnít more legal as we are not supposed to use Bluetooth GPS, and not sure if you can call it safer, I just like the extra situational awareness. Worth $80 to me, apparently not to you....

Delta is approved for the bad elf GPS using Bluetooth in the cockpit.

symbian simian
09-03-2018, 01:57 PM
Delta is approved for the bad elf GPS using Bluetooth in the cockpit.

Did DL use" the purpose is directly related to operation of the aircraft"? At NK we are directly forbidden from using them under:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2014/02/12/2014-02991/prohibition-on-personal-use-of-electronic-devices-on-the-flight-deck

14 CFR 121.542 - Flight crewmember duties:
(d) During all flight time as defined in 14 CFR 1.1, no flight crewmember may use, nor may any pilot in command permit the use of, a personal wireless communications device (as defined in 49 U.S.C. 44732(d)) or laptop computer while at a flight crewmember duty station unless the purpose is directly related to operation of the aircraft, or for emergency, safety-related, or employment-related communications, in accordance with air carrier procedures approved by the Administrator.


For people who don't think it is applicable, the key words in the ruling are "wireless capable according to the FCC". This makes it illegal for us to use your iPhone in airplane mode as a camera, but legal to watch DVD's on a dedicated player as long as it doesn't have wifi/bluetooth..... ;(

TrojanCMH
09-03-2018, 05:06 PM
Neither the bad elf nor the garmin work in the new sharklet airbii. Not worth your money...


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