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View Full Version : So You Want To Fly For Envoy?


Mach1aviator
08-22-2018, 08:16 PM
Was it the direct entry captain 45k sign on bonus that led you to Envoy? How about the promised A12 passes to and from work? What about the promised flow to American Airlines? Well step on down buddy come drink the kool aid that we once drank when we signed the dotted line on what was thought to be a very exciting day.. Did that get your attention well look no further I have a load to tell you before you make a dreaded mistake that will leave you moving to the armpit of the United States, Kids/Wife resenting you, pulling second mortgages, and/or divorced. Sounds fun ehh? Now before I get to far let me explain none of that has happened to me personally although close maybe once or twice, but this is just reality of what has, will, and what will continue at that place of employment for many pilots.


Direct Entry Captains-

I will start here.. So I am sure the company dangled a shiny carrot in front of your face with a bonus which immediately made you think of all the cool toys you could buy or whatever you decide to spend it on. Honestly they picked you up in a vulnerable state and used your previous experience to fill a crack in a sinking ship that they created. If your dream is to be on reserve for eternity in LGA/JFK then again step on down buddy! Oh flow you say? Yeah get ready for a dreaded 10 year wait, sure they donít take in account for attrition blah blah blah. So freaking what its 7-8 years instead of 10 years for your flow. Newsflash they have flow agreements in for the ďprotected pilotĒ group whatís that you ask? I donít know its people hired in a specific time period that you are not in. Whatís significant about that is your group that you will be hired in doesnít really have a great agreement in fact the flow numbers are cut in half once all the protected pilots have flowed.
ďI will just sign up get 121 pic time a big bonus and apply to other carriersĒ. Although this can work for some Iím here to tell you everyone says this, but only 10% of pilots at Envoy have an application in to the Majors. Getting comfortable is one of the worst things someone can do here. Ok next up why would a direct entry person want to come to a place where they arenít hiring many FOís anymore? Seniority and a jet engine are things you need in this industry but selling your soul to the devil will only get you one of those at Envoy. One last thing Envoys training could be taught by a chimpanzee because you wonít learn anything you will leave with more unanswered question than what you had going in. So enjoy that while you are learning all new company policies. Oh lied one more thing you actually will learn from some really experienced IOE captains for 50 hours that probably waited 6-12 years to upgrade or 10-12 years to finally get the chance to be called for the flow this year now here you come first day on the job a captain.. you get the point.


Sick Leave-

While sick leave is most widely used for time off in all reality sometimes people get sick so what why is this a big deal? Your first year Envoy will tell you without hesitation be careful about calling out sick. I get the reoccurring sick calls are frowned upon, but letís say you use one to many sick calls in your first year you get the can or the companies sugar coated ďcareer decision dayĒ This is even if you have the built up sick time bank.


Vacation-

If you are a line holder vacation is actually nice, in short if trips touch your vacation days that you had to bid for may I add then those trips drop off your schedule. So a weekís worth of vacation turns into 3 weeks or whatever. Donít worry if you are direct entry captain you will have vacation during reserve and it will be a whopping 4-5 days with reserve days on the front side and backside. Thatís the usual line holders days off in a row on a case to case basis.

Crew scheduling-

The crew schedulers are actually decent depending on who you talk to.. Ok this will raise some debate! If you are reserve you will get the good ol shafting from time to time and you will realize once you become a line holder that the level of respect they give you is much different. Idk maybe its because you donít really talk to them anymore.


Swaps & Drops

Did you ever dream of spending half your life and all your money getting a bunch of ratings and experience to have an joe smo guy/gal treat you like you are the lowest pond scum on this earth? If so give swaps & drops a call they will make you feel right at home. Now my theory is they process somewhere around 10k request each month by paper thatís just a guess. Either way I picture that whole department looking like a old decrepit bunch of people before they even hit 40. The most famous message you will ever see out of them is ďdenied due to staffing limitationsĒ Oh you need off for your wedding? Denied due to staffing limitations. You need off because you want to see your little boy play a his last T-ball game? Guess what yep denied due to staffing limitations! Oh I saw there was 25 people available on reserve that day why canít I drop that reserve day/trip denied due to freaking staffing limitations. Yep thatís right your home life will suck for the unforeseeable future.


School House-

The training is comparable toÖ actually nothing I canít even compare it to anything else its so bad. Studying policies, flows, limitations, profiles, systems is so fast paced, and the ground school is such a joke you might as well drive a 100 miles per hour down the interstate and chunk the steering wheel out the window. Thatís the level of hectic that goes on during critical learning phases. Hope you like teaching yourself. The sim training on the other hand is pretty good but they will look at you like youíre stupid when you donít know your flows stemming from that ground that a 4 year old could have taught. UNSATS are a common occurrence around there.

These are very few of the many problems that are here. We could talk about pay, QOL, Flow, etc all day long. Let me tell you weigh your options out very carefully before you decide to come to Envoy. Corporate BS just like anywhere else just with a twist at that airline. Just know if you decide to go to Envoy still just know you will never win and the company doesnít care about you like they portray. Go somewhere where you are more appreciated and the pay is better(plus QOL etc). If you are simple cfi Johnny who wants to fly bigger metal to impress his wannabe girlfriends while living in his mommyís basement or a direct entry guy who is down to his last straw then this place is possibly for you, but if you want to take the smart road start with the majors or go somewhere else with more to offer than a flow that can be taken away at any minute. Sure itís not all bad but it is a time that youíre making a serious career decision and not something to be handled lightly.


UncreativeUser
08-22-2018, 09:06 PM
I feel like I read this before.... hmmm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EmbaeDriver
08-22-2018, 09:25 PM
Doble post?

Still wayyyy to long to read, by the time I finish I may be flowing


UncreativeUser
08-22-2018, 09:26 PM
Doble post?



Still wayyyy to long to read, by the time I finish I may be flowing



[emoji23] lol

fenix1
08-22-2018, 11:45 PM
ď...if you want to take the smart road start with the majors...Ē

When I read something like this, the credibility of the rest of the post is next to nil - I was quite unaware that Envoy (DEC or otherwise) & the majors regularly competed for the same pool of pilots......

Was it the direct entry captain 45k sign on bonus that led you to Envoy? How about the promised A12 passes to and from work? What about the promised flow to American Airlines? Well step on down buddy come drink the kool aid that we once drank when we signed the dotted line on what was thought to be a very exciting day.. Did that get your attention well look no further I have a load to tell you before you make a dreaded mistake that will leave you moving to the armpit of the United States, Kids/Wife resenting you, pulling second mortgages, and/or divorced. Sounds fun ehh? Now before I get to far let me explain none of that has happened to me personally although close maybe once or twice, but this is just reality of what has, will, and what will continue at that place of employment for many pilots.


Direct Entry Captains-

I will start here.. So I am sure the company dangled a shiny carrot in front of your face with a bonus which immediately made you think of all the cool toys you could buy or whatever you decide to spend it on. Honestly they picked you up in a vulnerable state and used your previous experience to fill a crack in a sinking ship that they created. If your dream is to be on reserve for eternity in LGA/JFK then again step on down buddy! Oh flow you say? Yeah get ready for a dreaded 10 year wait, sure they donít take in account for attrition blah blah blah. So freaking what its 7-8 years instead of 10 years for your flow. Newsflash they have flow agreements in for the ďprotected pilotĒ group whatís that you ask? I donít know its people hired in a specific time period that you are not in. Whatís significant about that is your group that you will be hired in doesnít really have a great agreement in fact the flow numbers are cut in half once all the protected pilots have flowed.
ďI will just sign up get 121 pic time a big bonus and apply to other carriersĒ. Although this can work for some Iím here to tell you everyone says this, but only 10% of pilots at Envoy have an application in to the Majors. Getting comfortable is one of the worst things someone can do here. Ok next up why would a direct entry person want to come to a place where they arenít hiring many FOís anymore? Seniority and a jet engine are things you need in this industry but selling your soul to the devil will only get you one of those at Envoy. One last thing Envoys training could be taught by a chimpanzee because you wonít learn anything you will leave with more unanswered question than what you had going in. So enjoy that while you are learning all new company policies. Oh lied one more thing you actually will learn from some really experienced IOE captains for 50 hours that probably waited 6-12 years to upgrade or 10-12 years to finally get the chance to be called for the flow this year now here you come first day on the job a captain.. you get the point.


Sick Leave-

While sick leave is most widely used for time off in all reality sometimes people get sick so what why is this a big deal? Your first year Envoy will tell you without hesitation be careful about calling out sick. I get the reoccurring sick calls are frowned upon, but letís say you use one to many sick calls in your first year you get the can or the companies sugar coated ďcareer decision dayĒ This is even if you have the built up sick time bank.


Vacation-

If you are a line holder vacation is actually nice, in short if trips touch your vacation days that you had to bid for may I add then those trips drop off your schedule. So a weekís worth of vacation turns into 3 weeks or whatever. Donít worry if you are direct entry captain you will have vacation during reserve and it will be a whopping 4-5 days with reserve days on the front side and backside. Thatís the usual line holders days off in a row on a case to case basis.

Crew scheduling-

The crew schedulers are actually decent depending on who you talk to.. Ok this will raise some debate! If you are reserve you will get the good ol shafting from time to time and you will realize once you become a line holder that the level of respect they give you is much different. Idk maybe its because you donít really talk to them anymore.


Swaps & Drops

Did you ever dream of spending half your life and all your money getting a bunch of ratings and experience to have an joe smo guy/gal treat you like you are the lowest pond scum on this earth? If so give swaps & drops a call they will make you feel right at home. Now my theory is they process somewhere around 10k request each month by paper thatís just a guess. Either way I picture that whole department looking like a old decrepit bunch of people before they even hit 40. The most famous message you will ever see out of them is ďdenied due to staffing limitationsĒ Oh you need off for your wedding? Denied due to staffing limitations. You need off because you want to see your little boy play a his last T-ball game? Guess what yep denied due to staffing limitations! Oh I saw there was 25 people available on reserve that day why canít I drop that reserve day/trip denied due to freaking staffing limitations. Yep thatís right your home life will suck for the unforeseeable future.


School House-

The training is comparable toÖ actually nothing I canít even compare it to anything else its so bad. Studying policies, flows, limitations, profiles, systems is so fast paced, and the ground school is such a joke you might as well drive a 100 miles per hour down the interstate and chunk the steering wheel out the window. Thatís the level of hectic that goes on during critical learning phases. Hope you like teaching yourself. The sim training on the other hand is pretty good but they will look at you like youíre stupid when you donít know your flows stemming from that ground that a 4 year old could have taught. UNSATS are a common occurrence around there.

These are very few of the many problems that are here. We could talk about pay, QOL, Flow, etc all day long. Let me tell you weigh your options out very carefully before you decide to come to Envoy. Corporate BS just like anywhere else just with a twist at that airline. Just know if you decide to go to Envoy still just know you will never win and the company doesnít care about you like they portray. Go somewhere where you are more appreciated and the pay is better(plus QOL etc). If you are simple cfi Johnny who wants to fly bigger metal to impress his wannabe girlfriends while living in his mommyís basement or a direct entry guy who is down to his last straw then this place is possibly for you, but if you want to take the smart road start with the majors or go somewhere else with more to offer than a flow that can be taken away at any minute. Sure itís not all bad but it is a time that youíre making a serious career decision and not something to be handled lightly.

Pedro4President
08-23-2018, 05:15 AM
Was it the direct entry captain 45k sign on bonus that led you to Envoy? How about the promised A12 passes to and from work? What about the promised flow to American Airlines? Well step on down buddy come drink the kool aid that we once drank when we signed the dotted line on what was thought to be a very exciting day.. Did that get your attention well look no further I have a load to tell you before you make a dreaded mistake that will leave you moving to the armpit of the United States, Kids/Wife resenting you, pulling second mortgages, and/or divorced. Sounds fun ehh? Now before I get to far let me explain none of that has happened to me personally although close maybe once or twice, but this is just reality of what has, will, and what will continue at that place of employment for many pilots.


Direct Entry Captains-

I will start here.. So I am sure the company dangled a shiny carrot in front of your face with a bonus which immediately made you think of all the cool toys you could buy or whatever you decide to spend it on. Honestly they picked you up in a vulnerable state and used your previous experience to fill a crack in a sinking ship that they created. If your dream is to be on reserve for eternity in LGA/JFK then again step on down buddy! Oh flow you say? Yeah get ready for a dreaded 10 year wait, sure they donít take in account for attrition blah blah blah. So freaking what its 7-8 years instead of 10 years for your flow. Newsflash they have flow agreements in for the ďprotected pilotĒ group whatís that you ask? I donít know its people hired in a specific time period that you are not in. Whatís significant about that is your group that you will be hired in doesnít really have a great agreement in fact the flow numbers are cut in half once all the protected pilots have flowed.
ďI will just sign up get 121 pic time a big bonus and apply to other carriersĒ. Although this can work for some Iím here to tell you everyone says this, but only 10% of pilots at Envoy have an application in to the Majors. Getting comfortable is one of the worst things someone can do here. Ok next up why would a direct entry person want to come to a place where they arenít hiring many FOís anymore? Seniority and a jet engine are things you need in this industry but selling your soul to the devil will only get you one of those at Envoy. One last thing Envoys training could be taught by a chimpanzee because you wonít learn anything you will leave with more unanswered question than what you had going in. So enjoy that while you are learning all new company policies. Oh lied one more thing you actually will learn from some really experienced IOE captains for 50 hours that probably waited 6-12 years to upgrade or 10-12 years to finally get the chance to be called for the flow this year now here you come first day on the job a captain.. you get the point.


Sick Leave-

While sick leave is most widely used for time off in all reality sometimes people get sick so what why is this a big deal? Your first year Envoy will tell you without hesitation be careful about calling out sick. I get the reoccurring sick calls are frowned upon, but letís say you use one to many sick calls in your first year you get the can or the companies sugar coated ďcareer decision dayĒ This is even if you have the built up sick time bank.


Vacation-

If you are a line holder vacation is actually nice, in short if trips touch your vacation days that you had to bid for may I add then those trips drop off your schedule. So a weekís worth of vacation turns into 3 weeks or whatever. Donít worry if you are direct entry captain you will have vacation during reserve and it will be a whopping 4-5 days with reserve days on the front side and backside. Thatís the usual line holders days off in a row on a case to case basis.

Crew scheduling-

The crew schedulers are actually decent depending on who you talk to.. Ok this will raise some debate! If you are reserve you will get the good ol shafting from time to time and you will realize once you become a line holder that the level of respect they give you is much different. Idk maybe its because you donít really talk to them anymore.


Swaps & Drops

Did you ever dream of spending half your life and all your money getting a bunch of ratings and experience to have an joe smo guy/gal treat you like you are the lowest pond scum on this earth? If so give swaps & drops a call they will make you feel right at home. Now my theory is they process somewhere around 10k request each month by paper thatís just a guess. Either way I picture that whole department looking like a old decrepit bunch of people before they even hit 40. The most famous message you will ever see out of them is ďdenied due to staffing limitationsĒ Oh you need off for your wedding? Denied due to staffing limitations. You need off because you want to see your little boy play a his last T-ball game? Guess what yep denied due to staffing limitations! Oh I saw there was 25 people available on reserve that day why canít I drop that reserve day/trip denied due to freaking staffing limitations. Yep thatís right your home life will suck for the unforeseeable future.


School House-

The training is comparable toÖ actually nothing I canít even compare it to anything else its so bad. Studying policies, flows, limitations, profiles, systems is so fast paced, and the ground school is such a joke you might as well drive a 100 miles per hour down the interstate and chunk the steering wheel out the window. Thatís the level of hectic that goes on during critical learning phases. Hope you like teaching yourself. The sim training on the other hand is pretty good but they will look at you like youíre stupid when you donít know your flows stemming from that ground that a 4 year old could have taught. UNSATS are a common occurrence around there.

These are very few of the many problems that are here. We could talk about pay, QOL, Flow, etc all day long. Let me tell you weigh your options out very carefully before you decide to come to Envoy. Corporate BS just like anywhere else just with a twist at that airline. Just know if you decide to go to Envoy still just know you will never win and the company doesnít care about you like they portray. Go somewhere where you are more appreciated and the pay is better(plus QOL etc). If you are simple cfi Johnny who wants to fly bigger metal to impress his wannabe girlfriends while living in his mommyís basement or a direct entry guy who is down to his last straw then this place is possibly for you, but if you want to take the smart road start with the majors or go somewhere else with more to offer than a flow that can be taken away at any minute. Sure itís not all bad but it is a time that youíre making a serious career decision and not something to be handled lightly.

I don't agree with everything you said here but like I always say everyone's experience here will vary widely. I don't doubt that you experienced much of the angst felt in this post. Envoy offers a fantastic QOL for some and for others the QOL can be unbearable.

Anyone that has been in this industry or about to be should know that hiring waves have a huge impact on QOL. Joining a 2500 pilot group at the back end of a 1400ish hiring wave where growth seems to be subsiding isn't the most optimal move for some people that will commute.

Mach1aviator
08-23-2018, 06:00 AM
I don't agree with everything you said here but like I always say everyone's experience here will vary widely. I don't doubt that you experienced much of the angst felt in this post. Envoy offers a fantastic QOL for some and for others the QOL can be unbearable.

Anyone that has been in this industry or about to be should know that hiring waves have a huge impact on QOL. Joining a 2500 pilot group at the back end of a 1400ish hiring wave where growth seems to be subsiding isn't the most optimal move for some people that will commute.

Actually I did experience most all of what was stated. This is solely a informative post for the newbies.

Mach1aviator
08-23-2018, 06:15 AM
Doble post?

Still wayyyy to long to read, by the time I finish I may be flowing

lol true

As far as double post this is my first time here.

CaptJackSparrow
08-23-2018, 06:24 AM
Oh lied one more thing you actually will learn from some really experienced IOE captains for 50 hours that probably waited 6-12 years to upgrade or 10-12 years to finally get the chance to be called for the flow this year now here you come first day on the job a captain.. you get the point.


I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to get at with this comment but to try to sleight our LCAs...c'mon man. MOST of these guys are fantastic, there's a bad apple in every group no matter where you go. Show up prepared and with a good attitude and it should be a smooth ride through IOE. Simple as that. If you don't know your limitations when asked on IOE then realistically should that LCA sign you off? Ask yourself that and put yourself in his/her shoes.

As far as studying goes in the school house... every question you have (and will have asked of you) can be answered by reading and STUDYING from the FM-1, AOM-1, and AOM-2. Anything outside of that most likely is not of major importance in terms of passing an SV/PV. What are we in elementary school and need to have everything spoon fed to us?!

It's not so much the quality of training that has gone down here recently. It's really the quality of applicants that has gone down.

Mach1aviator
08-23-2018, 06:25 AM
ď...if you want to take the smart road start with the majors...Ē

When I read something like this, the credibility of the rest of the post is next to nil - I was quite unaware that Envoy (DEC or otherwise) & the majors regularly competed for the same pool of pilots......

This is aimed at the guys with obvious hours to apply for majors..
especially for the direct entry captains sorry I didn't specify. I don't know if anyone has told you but AA, Delta, United all hire off the street too. Don't be the "I didn't try because I know they won't say yes" type of ass wipes! Take that credibility and shove it where the sun don't shine.

402FreightDog
08-23-2018, 06:40 AM
lol true

As far as double post this is my first time here.
While it may be your first post under this name, it is highly unlikely you made it to Envoy as a DEC and never posted here. And THEN stumbled across the forum and posted all this your first time. Your credibility continues to sink.

And if it is truly the case, there is plenty of information here. You should have done your research before you took the golden carrot.

Not saying some of this isnít true in one form or another, other than the part about coming to Envoy instead of a major if you can.

Pedro4President
08-23-2018, 07:27 AM
Actually I did experience most all of what was stated. This is solely a informative post for the newbies.

I believe you did. My point is not everyone will have your same experience.

Mach1aviator
08-23-2018, 08:33 AM
I believe you did. My point is not everyone will have your same experience.

my apologies I misread what you said, and I can agree with you no doubt.

Mach1aviator
08-23-2018, 08:35 AM
While it may be your first post under this name, it is highly unlikely you made it to Envoy as a DEC and never posted here. And THEN stumbled across the forum and posted all this your first time. Your credibility continues to sink.

And if it is truly the case, there is plenty of information here. You should have done your research before you took the golden carrot.

Not saying some of this isnít true in one form or another, other than the part about coming to Envoy instead of a major if you can.

Interesting theory but completely wrong, and this isn't a post for me.. It is a warning to the people who might plan on going there.

Mach1aviator
08-23-2018, 08:41 AM
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to get at with this comment but to try to sleight our LCAs...c'mon man. MOST of these guys are fantastic, there's a bad apple in every group no matter where you go. Show up prepared and with a good attitude and it should be a smooth ride through IOE. Simple as that. If you don't know your limitations when asked on IOE then realistically should that LCA sign you off? Ask yourself that and put yourself in his/her shoes.

As far as studying goes in the school house... every question you have (and will have asked of you) can be answered by reading and STUDYING from the FM-1, AOM-1, and AOM-2. Anything outside of that most likely is not of major importance in terms of passing an SV/PV. What are we in elementary school and need to have everything spoon fed to us?!

It's not so much the quality of training that has gone down here recently. It's really the quality of applicants that has gone down.

Maybe it came off as if I were attacking the long time participants at envoy. I am not doing that whatsoever, and I happen to agree with you that the Captains are great! In fact I think the best learning that you will get is from IOE when it comes to all operational knowledge. Morale on the other hand is another story not all but some will not like DEC's based off there experience. My point is simply a prep for what is or more than likely going to happen. If it doesn't than great Thats the way it should be.

Training (school house) on the other hand we can debate all day but I don't feel like it.

EmbaeDriver
08-23-2018, 08:47 AM
Contact Departure!

cr700
08-23-2018, 09:31 AM
Interesting theory but completely wrong, and this isn't a post for me.. It is a warning to the people who might plan on going there.

Most likely scenario here is that you were fired from Envoy and are just jealous. None of your post rings true. It just sounds like a bitter, disgruntled former employee who won't have the opportunity to flow to American Airlines. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

402FreightDog
08-23-2018, 09:37 AM
Interesting theory but completely wrong, and this isn't a post for me.. It is a warning to the people who might plan on going there.
Call it a warning, but it is still a post. And I still donít believe this was your first time on APC.

UncreativeUser
08-23-2018, 09:42 AM
lol true



As far as double post this is my first time here.



Why are you saying lol true to a double post when this is your first time here?

Kinda feels like something is off...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Pedro4President
08-23-2018, 10:01 AM
Most likely scenario here is that you were fired from Envoy and are just jealous. None of your post rings true. It just sounds like a bitter, disgruntled former employee who won't have the opportunity to flow to American Airlines. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
His post is fairly accurate. Why does your default defense resort to you got fired and bummed you miss out on a 6 year flow???

You would have no idea what it's like as a DEC on reserve in LGA.

EmbaeDriver
08-23-2018, 10:26 AM
Most likely scenario here is that you were fired from Envoy and are just jealous. None of your post rings true. It just sounds like a bitter, disgruntled former employee who won't have the opportunity to flow to American Airlines. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Makes sense!!!!

NoValueAviator
08-23-2018, 12:10 PM
I wonder what DEC attrition figures are like, how many drop out of our industry-leading training program (I notice no one is contesting his claims about the training dept lol) and how many make it to RSV before bailing.

greendotplus10
08-23-2018, 05:19 PM
I saw where DEC into ORD is/will be offered. If they offer DFW next, that will get my attention.

havick206
08-23-2018, 05:24 PM
I saw where DEC into ORD is/will be offered. If they offer DFW next, that will get my attention.

DEC DFW will probably never be on the cards. Itís the most senior base.

Cyio
08-24-2018, 04:01 AM
I wonder what DEC attrition figures are like, how many drop out of our industry-leading training program (I notice no one is contesting his claims about the training dept lol) and how many make it to RSV before bailing.

I have been through several training events with Envoy, and other than one particular person, "lets look it up", I have not had any issues. Sure, you are required to group up on your free time and study the packet, memorization items and limitations, but so what, this is your job.

The sims have always gone well, both with the instructors and training. Envoy wants you in and out fast, so you need to be able to adapt to that style of training.

envoy1
08-24-2018, 08:15 AM
I agree with the original poster on the majority of their comments. I left for Endeavor a little over 2 years ago and everything across the board is markedly better at Endeavor when compared to Envoy. Primarily the punitive culture Envoy seems to employ in most aspects of the operation was noticeably absent at Endeavor.

UncreativeUser
08-24-2018, 08:22 AM
I agree with the original poster on the majority of their comments. I left for Endeavor a little over 2 years ago and everything across the board is markedly better at Endeavor when compared to Envoy. Primarily the punitive culture Envoy seems to employ in most aspects of the operation was noticeably absent at Endeavor.



Care to elaborate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mach1aviator
08-24-2018, 01:49 PM
Care to elaborate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you at Envoy yet? I saw a post where you talked about the bad attitudes of pilots who bashed some guy with a Vlog. Just curious..

UncreativeUser
08-25-2018, 01:23 PM
Are you at Envoy yet? I saw a post where you talked about the bad attitudes of pilots who bashed some guy with a Vlog. Just curious..


My class date is relatively soon. I know Iím new and the cupcake phase will end but my thought process about all of the regionals is which one has a better offer if you were stuck there for 10 years. Iíve read the contracts of Envoy, Endeavor, Republic and Skywest.

Yeah our contract isnít the best but it will be updated eventually when it expires in a few years even with that being said for how outdated our contract is I still think itís the 3rd best one out there.

I do appreciate posts like yours to give new guys further insight, itís very thoughtful and is the point of posting on APC. With that being said, the grass isnít always greener on the other side. Iíve seen some negative posts even from Endeavor guys even though they are the top regional to be at right now. Again I know itís to vent but itís just like, sad to see after working hard to reach minimums only to hear the guys I look up to bash their company...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Amansworld
08-25-2018, 02:28 PM
ďincluding an uptick in overspeed events which, after the required AML entry and Pipeline report, is causing our pilots to incur PRIA reportable remedial training, even for minor transitory incursions above red line.Ē

Excerpt from last MEC email. Hostile work environment all day everyday.

jonrayburn
08-25-2018, 08:48 PM
My class date is relatively soon. I know Iím new and the cupcake phase will end but my thought process about all of the regionals is which one has a better offer if you were stuck there for 10 years. Iíve read the contracts of Envoy, Endeavor, Republic and Skywest.

Yeah our contract isnít the best but it will be updated eventually when it expires in a few years even with that being said for how outdated our contract is I still think itís the 3rd best one out there.

I do appreciate posts like yours to give new guys further insight, itís very thoughtful and is the point of posting on APC. With that being said, the grass isnít always greener on the other side. Iíve seen some negative posts even from Endeavor guys even though they are the top regional to be at right now. Again I know itís to vent but itís just like, sad to see after working hard to reach minimums only to hear the guys I look up to bash their company...


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ďMy class date is relatively soonĒ... ďour contractĒ... ďread the contracts of...Ē

Anyone else find that funny??
:D:D

EnyFlyr
08-25-2018, 09:34 PM
ďMy class date is relatively soonĒ... ďour contractĒ... ďread the contracts of...Ē

Anyone else find that funny??
:D:D

I find funny 90 reserve FOís for august 31st in dfw.. hmm are they trying to bring everyone back from NY fast so they dont have to pay for the 3 months hotel? If thays the case, lots of new hires will be sitting reserve in dfw for a long time not making any money.

Lots of dhdís lately to other bases to cover trips then back. Im a july 2017 FO and I cant even hold a line in dfw.

UncreativeUser
08-26-2018, 02:17 AM
ďMy class date is relatively soonĒ... ďour contractĒ... ďread the contracts of...Ē



Anyone else find that funny??

:D:D



I say relatively soon so I donít get pegged to a certain date when guys who donít agree with me can find out who I am and make my life miserable (which will happen anywhere).

As for reading the contracts yeah itís amazing how much free time you have when youíre taking a dump you can get a lot of good reading in to pass the time! Iím not saying Iím a know at all but just a perspective of why new some new hires keep showing up, which is kinda bad I know cause we need less new hires so Envoy realizes we need to raise pay, better reserve rules, etc.

idk what the solution is to that cause itís still a regional to work for that is pretty solid.


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in2deep
08-26-2018, 02:29 AM
I say relatively soon so I donít get pegged to a certain date when guys who donít agree with me can find out who I am and make my life miserable (which will happen anywhere).

As for reading the contracts yeah itís amazing how much free time you have when youíre taking a dump you can get a lot of good reading in to pass the time! Iím not saying Iím a know at all but just a perspective of why new some new hires keep showing up, which is kinda bad I know cause we need less new hires so Envoy realizes we need to raise pay, better reserve rules, etc.

idk what the solution is to that cause itís still a regional to work for that is pretty solid.


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My question is...how did you get access to our contract?

Whiskey4
08-26-2018, 05:47 AM
My question is...how did you get access to our contract?

Thereís this crazy thing called the internet... you should check it out. I found an operating manual for the space shuttle. You can find pretty much anything.

Or, ask a current Pilot for a copy. Itís not a top secret document.

SilentLurker
08-26-2018, 06:04 AM
My question is...how did you get access to our contract?



Itís Sunday, relax.

ďOurĒ contract is not a secret document written by hooded scribes on a sealed papyrus. AAG is a publicly traded airline. We are not in Moscow and this is not the Kremlin intimidation tactics school.

Itís advise-able to read the contract before stepping foot onto any property for a potential career. The person did research utilizing all available resources, and that is great on his/her part. It should be sent to all NH with a CJO if you ask me.

402FreightDog
08-26-2018, 06:17 AM
My class date is relatively soon. I know Iím new and the cupcake phase will end but my thought process about all of the regionals is which one has a better offer if you were stuck there for 10 years. Iíve read the contracts of Envoy, Endeavor, Republic and Skywest.

Yeah our contract isnít the best but it will be updated eventually when it expires in a few years even with that being said for how outdated our contract is I still think itís the 3rd best one out there.

I do appreciate posts like yours to give new guys further insight, itís very thoughtful and is the point of posting on APC. With that being said, the grass isnít always greener on the other side. Iíve seen some negative posts even from Endeavor guys even though they are the top regional to be at right now. Again I know itís to vent but itís just like, sad to see after working hard to reach minimums only to hear the guys I look up to bash their company...


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You think Envoyís contract is the third best and that people coming to Envoy hurt the chances of getting a better contract, but you are still coming to Envoy because you want to be somewhere you could stay.

Every one has their reason...

This one just doesnít sound like a good one.

If you think reading this stuff is sad to see, youíre going to have a long career. Or a very short one.

UncreativeUser
08-26-2018, 06:23 AM
You think Envoyís contract is the third best and that people coming to Envoy hurt the chances of getting a better contract, but you are still coming to Envoy because you want to be somewhere you could stay.



Every one has their reason...



This one just doesnít sound like a good one.



So me wanting to go to an airline to stay in the long term isnít a good reason? I thought the saying goes ďpick a regional where you could get stuck at for 10 yearsĒ

My approach to picking a regional is long term. I could go somewhere with the better contract but as well all know this industry changes very rapidly. I think the AA wholly-ownedís are attracting the long term type thinkers. But that could change as well.

So out of curiosity, why is my reason not a good one?


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UncreativeUser
08-26-2018, 06:25 AM
Itís Sunday, relax.

ďOurĒ contract is not a secret document written by hooded scribes on a sealed papyrus. AAG is a publicly traded airline. We are not in Moscow and this is not the Kremlin intimidation tactics school.

Itís advise-able to read the contract before stepping foot onto any property for a potential career. The person did research utilizing all available resources, and that is great on his/her part. It should be sent to all NH with a CJO if you ask me.



Thank you!


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402FreightDog
08-26-2018, 06:27 AM
So me wanting to go to an airline to stay in the long term isnít a good reason? I thought the saying goes ďpick a regional where you could get stuck at for 10 yearsĒ

My approach to picking a regional is long term. I could go somewhere with the better contract but as well all know this industry changes very rapidly. I think the AA wholly-ownedís are attracting the long term type thinkers. But that could change as well.

So out of curiosity, why is my reason not a good one?


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The grass at Envoy is not greener. And if you are thinking it will get greener, you are making a big gamble. But I guess plenty of guys have gone to greener grass only to have it Napalmed.

402FreightDog
08-26-2018, 06:38 AM
So me wanting to go to an airline to stay in the long term isnít a good reason? I thought the saying goes ďpick a regional where you could get stuck at for 10 yearsĒ

My approach to picking a regional is long term. I could go somewhere with the better contract but as well all know this industry changes very rapidly. I think the AA wholly-ownedís are attracting the long term type thinkers. But that could change as well.

So out of curiosity, why is my reason not a good one?


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I think most people will tell you to go a regional that you wonít have to commute to. But again, that is a gamble. Look at any domicile at Envoy and ask if anyone has been able to stay from new hire to last day at the same place. I donít think you will find very many.

Best advice I can and have given anyone who wants to fly for a career is get an education (bachelors degree) in something else that you could do if you canít fly. The day may come when the big five or six hire without it, but itís a back up plan as well.

NoValueAviator
08-26-2018, 07:13 AM
The day may come when the big five or six hire without it, but itís a back up plan as well.

That day will be in 2021 when some of the highschool dropouts hired in 2016 flow lol.

TransWorld
08-26-2018, 03:07 PM
You sure they will need to know how to read and write? Jk

402FreightDog
08-26-2018, 05:16 PM
You sure they will need to know how to read and write? Jk

Pretty obvious from a lot of these posts that some people canít do either.

SoFloFlyer
08-26-2018, 07:09 PM
Pretty obvious from a lot of these posts that some people canít do either.

I probably laughed harder than I shouldíve at this lol

UncreativeUser
08-27-2018, 03:07 PM
The grass at Envoy is not greener. And if you are thinking it will get greener, you are making a big gamble. But I guess plenty of guys have gone to greener grass only to have it Napalmed.



You are not wrong. That is exactly why Iím not switching at this point is cause the grass isnít always greener.

I got the 4 yeah degree in comm avit and UAS (Completely useless for manned flying I know but it was an extra 6 classes so why not). Iím not dependent on the flow, but I think it offers quicker movement across the board compared to the other airlines. I think the company knows this too and thatís an incentive for them to hold off pay raises as well, but I could be wrong.

That is why I believe classes are still filling up, at least from a new/newish hire perspective...


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