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flyjustinfly
08-23-2018, 04:56 PM
The thread title says it all. But with the pilot shortage ahead, would these two ever consider dropping the 4 year degree requirement?


BoilerUP
08-23-2018, 05:12 PM
Bachelors degree is preferred at UPS, not required.

galaxy flyer
08-23-2018, 05:51 PM
The qualifications of the applicant base decides, not the airline. Right now, and for the past 50+ years, having a degree was necessary because the vast majority of applicants had one. Get it or wait until the pool changes.

Forty years ago, I was told by a TWA Chief Pilotóget a degree. Still true.


GF


Busflyer
08-23-2018, 05:56 PM
I don’t see it going away. There are still plenty of applicants that have it.

howardhughes8
08-23-2018, 06:15 PM
I donít see it going away. There are still plenty of applicants that have it.

I agree, for the ďtop jobsĒ. And the younger generation coming up throught the pipeline, they will all come from a formal, higher education training program.

I have a couple of good friends I am helping to get in the door, unfortunately 2 without a degree. Not much success. Both 10k+ quality flight time, but no degree. Still very competitive for top jobs.

navigatro
08-24-2018, 05:38 AM
Forty years ago, I was told by a TWA Chief Pilot—get a degree.


GF

you must be pretty old.

atpcliff
08-24-2018, 07:10 AM
This requirement will probably go away for all companies, as the Pilot Shortage tsunami gets ever closer...

nitefr8dog
08-24-2018, 08:07 AM
you must be pretty old.
Wow....I was thinking something along the lines of....you must have a ton of experience.

Busdrivr
08-24-2018, 10:21 AM
Google, Apple, IBM No Longer Require College Degrees for Employees

Article on Breitbart news today.

USMCFLYR
08-24-2018, 10:25 AM
Google, Apple, IBM No Longer Require College Degrees for Employees

Article on Breitbart news today.
At what level of employment within the businesses?
Serious question.

Entry level position?
Middle management?
Upper management?

Anyone getting a job in charge of millions and millions of dollars and the possible future stake of company getting hired into position without a degree?

wrxpilot
08-24-2018, 11:02 AM
Google, Apple, IBM No Longer Require College Degrees for Employees

Article on Breitbart news today.

I doubt thatís the case for their new hire engineers.

If anything, I could see UPS/FDX relaxing the TPIC requirements. They already have to some extent. I donít see that happening with the 4 year degree requirement though.

midnightshuttle
08-25-2018, 04:47 AM
UPS doesnít require one. I know several overthere that dont have one. One in fact has a GED.

FedEx absolutely not gonna relax the requirement. Just not in thier mentality.

UPS is a trucking company, FedEx is a branch of the military falling somewhere between the USAF & USN.


Basically No degree welcome to ATI, ATLAS, etc. Just go get a degree and suck it up.

No Land 3
08-25-2018, 10:13 AM
UPS doesnít require one. I know several overthere that dont have one. One in fact has a GED.

FedEx absolutely not gonna relax the requirement. Just not in thier mentality.

UPS is a trucking company, FedEx is a branch of the military falling somewhere between the USAF & USN.


Basically No degree welcome to ATI, ATLAS, etc. Just go get a degree and suck it up.
I've heard a four year degree counts against you if you took six years to acquire at Fed Ex. Already have my four year degree, which I decided to do in six years. Still though, I jumpseated on them often enough to see how it works over there, and it isn't very appealing. Think the vast majority are there only for the money.

Hacker15e
08-25-2018, 10:38 AM
Think the vast majority are there only for the money.


Unlike other airlines, where people are flying for the pure joy and glory of it.

No Land 3
08-25-2018, 11:17 AM
Unlike other airlines, where people are flying for the pure joy and glory of it.

No, the entire package, variety, AND the money. I would have to give up some nice things to switch. Some would say it would be stupid not to switch. To each their own.

USMCFLYR
08-25-2018, 11:26 AM
I don't know anyone from at least my old community or current work place who works at the airlines for the excitement of airline flying.
They do it for the money, the time off, and the lifestyle that the income provides.

DirtyPurple
08-25-2018, 11:37 AM
FedEx is a branch of the military falling somewhere between the USAF & USN.


Never heard it said quite like that. Can confirm though.

wrxpilot
08-25-2018, 12:22 PM
I've heard a four year degree counts against you if you took six years to acquire at Fed Ex. Already have my four year degree, which I decided to do in six years. Still though, I jumpseated on them often enough to see how it works over there, and it isn't very appealing. Think the vast majority are there only for the money.

You’re wrong. It took me a total of six years to get my degree. I also have a GED, and am purely civilian. FedEx had no issues at all with it.

Also, one of the reasons I chose FDX over my UAL class is because I figured I’d enjoy the flying/lifestyle more.

CactusCrew
08-25-2018, 12:31 PM
UPS is a trucking company, FedEx is a branch of the military falling somewhere between the USAF & USN.



I'm entirely civilian, so can one of the UPS guys help me out ... Are we like the Army ?

Since we has been compared to the military too

:D

coryk
08-25-2018, 12:56 PM
I've heard a four year degree counts against you if you took six years to acquire at Fed Ex. Already have my four year degree, which I decided to do in six years. Still though, I jumpseated on them often enough to see how it works over there, and it isn't very appealing. Think the vast majority are there only for the money.

So your jumpseat ride gave you an all-access look into the culture/mindset of our almost 5000 pilot seniority list— which includes 64 year olds, 25 year olds... RJ captains and B2 pilots? And you concluded we’re just all in it for the money?

Not climbing Mt. Fuji on a 72hr Japan layover, or having dinner with 4 crews at a delicious restaurant in Paris, or going home and sleeping in your bed on a 18CH 3 day weekend layover trip. What about having the ability to be based overseas in Europe or Asia— a perk no other US airline provides, to soak in their culture and provide your family the opportunity experience a different park of the world.

I flew for a big 3 carrier before this. Most of those guys were just counting down the days until retirement. Slam-click was a familiar sound, days 1-4.

Nah. I’m just here for the money. :rolleyes:

galaxy flyer
08-25-2018, 02:01 PM
you must be pretty old.

In the early 70s, I worked as a line boy at Danbury, CT airport (KDXR) while in college. A boat load of senior TW, UA and PA F/Os and Captains flew out of there, many hired in the mid-60s in tha5 boom had learned to fly there just as wasóone flight a week. It was a great education, Pete Reynolds was very senior and owned a CE-310 with some other TWA pilots, they kindly took on flights and did some ME instruction for me. Probably not remotely possible today.

GF

DC8DRIVER
08-25-2018, 02:07 PM
So your jumpseat ride gave you an all-access look into the culture/mindset of our almost 5000 pilot seniority list— which includes 64 year olds, 25 year olds... RJ captains and B2 pilots? And you concluded we’re just all in it for the money?

Not climbing Mt. Fuji on a 72hr Japan layover, or having dinner with 4 crews at a delicious restaurant in Paris, or going home and sleeping in your bed on a 18CH 3 day weekend layover trip. What about having the ability to be based overseas in Europe or Asia— a perk no other US airline provides, to soak in their culture and provide your family the opportunity experience a different park of the world.

I flew for a big 3 carrier before this. Most of those guys were just counting down the days until retirement. Slam-click was a familiar sound, days 1-4.

Nah. I’m just here for the money. :rolleyes:

Clearly he jumpseats domestically and sees only the MEM sort which probably isn't the most appealing thing to see if you're not on the inside. So try not to take offense when he said what he said, it was his opinion after all.

I happen to think flying boxes is the way to go for a variety of different reasons (just not at Atlas!).

To each his own.

Back to the original post, has anyone heard of FedEx dropping the 4 year requirement? I know it's not a hard requirement at UPS...

coryk
08-25-2018, 02:36 PM
Clearly he jumpseats domestically and sees only the MEM sort which probably isn't the most appealing thing to see if you're not on the inside. So try not to take offense when he said what he said, it was his opinion after all.

I happen to think flying boxes is the way to go for a variety of different reasons (just not at Atlas!).

To each his own.

Back to the original post, has anyone heard of FedEx dropping the 4 year requirement? I know it's not a hard requirement at UPS...

Not taking offense... cargo isnít for everyone. I get it. Our friend however paints a pretty broad brush after a few trips on the Purple JS.

PostalAV8B
08-25-2018, 04:07 PM
I've heard a four year degree counts against you if you took six years to acquire at Fed Ex. Already have my four year degree, which I decided to do in six years. Still though, I jumpseated on them often enough to see how it works over there, and it isn't very appealing. Think the vast majority are there only for the money.

Few days ago when checking in with the AA S80 crew for permission for a ride to Memphis (given a seat in the back). First thing out of the Captain's mouth was..."FedEx, you make more money than us". So yes the money is one aspect of purple. Can't say I am there for only the money. Hard to understand from inside jumpseat administration, at I assume Memphis.
FWIW I took 5 years for my degree. I had to drop out of college for a year to take an all expense paid trip to the Middle East back in 1990/91. No issues with the break in my studies.

No Land 3
08-25-2018, 04:57 PM
So your jumpseat ride gave you an all-access look into the culture/mindset of our almost 5000 pilot seniority listó which includes 64 year olds, 25 year olds... RJ captains and B2 pilots? And you concluded weíre just all in it for the money?

Not climbing Mt. Fuji on a 72hr Japan layover, or having dinner with 4 crews at a delicious restaurant in Paris, or going home and sleeping in your bed on a 18CH 3 day weekend layover trip. What about having the ability to be based overseas in Europe or Asiaó a perk no other US airline provides, to soak in their culture and provide your family the opportunity experience a different park of the world.

I flew for a big 3 carrier before this. Most of those guys were just counting down the days until retirement. Slam-click was a familiar sound, days 1-4.

Nah. Iím just here for the money. :rolleyes:

You don't think I am already doing the same? And I don't have to commute.
And to the others, I have only seen the MEM hub night flying. I agree, I love cargo over pax flying, and get to see some pretty interesting things. Let me word my original post differently. The MEM domestic hub flying at purple does NOT appeal to me.

nitefr8dog
08-25-2018, 05:11 PM
You don't think I am already doing the same? And I don't have to commute.
And to the others, I have only seen the MEM hub night flying. I agree, I love cargo over pax flying, and get to see some pretty interesting things. Let me word my original post differently. The MEM domestic hub flying at purple does NOT appeal to me.
That at least is organized and planned out....you are lucky you have not been through the DHL hub in CVG at night. It's painful to watch....inmates are running the asylum.

goinaround
08-25-2018, 05:21 PM
You don't think I am already doing the same? And I don't have to commute.
And to the others, I have only seen the MEM hub night flying. I agree, I love cargo over pax flying, and get to see some pretty interesting things. Let me word my original post differently. The MEM domestic hub flying at purple does NOT appeal to me.

You're gonna want to steer clear of the K4 767 operation.......

No Land 3
08-25-2018, 05:23 PM
You're gonna want to steer clear of the K4 767 operation.......
I am not bidding it, would of held a CA slot on it already.

PostalAV8B
08-25-2018, 05:27 PM
You don't think I am already doing the same? And I don't have to commute.
And to the others, I have only seen the MEM hub night flying. I agree, I love cargo over pax flying, and get to see some pretty interesting things. Let me word my original post differently. The MEM domestic hub flying at purple does NOT appeal to me.

Memphis night hub turning does have its downsides. Part you are missing is the sleep rooms where the crews are catching a 2 to 4 hour nap during the sort. A good amount of short 1 legs in and out of the hub also. I get more sleep on the road than I do at home. I personally prefer the night hub turns domestically....but Indy over Memphis.

Adlerdriver
08-25-2018, 06:04 PM
Few days ago when checking in with the AA S80 crew for permission for a ride to Memphis (given a seat in the back). First thing out of the Captain's mouth was..."FedEx, you make more money than us".:confused: Uhhhh, yeah... about that. Maybe he was talking about the corporation as a whole, because that doesn't apply to our pilots. Sounds like both you and that Captain are still thinking lost decade and legacy bankruptcy contracts. According to the profile here on APC, AA's 757 12-year Captains are making $30/hour more than ours. Their 777 Captain rates are $36/hour higher.
Still a great job, but we gave up the top spot in pay a while ago and since most of our peers will already be on a follow-on contract by the time we sign our next, we ain't getting that back any time soon.

atpcliff
08-25-2018, 07:42 PM
What about having the ability to be based overseas in Europe or Asiaó a perk no other US airline provides, to soak in their culture and provide your family the opportunity experience a different park of the world.
:

There are a number of US carriers where it is easy to live overseas...not the same as being based overseas, but a similar experience. And, of course, there are a lot of foreign carriers where you can live or be based overseas (or live in and/or be based in the US).

SeeDub
08-25-2018, 08:56 PM
:confused: Uhhhh, yeah... about that. Maybe he was talking about the corporation as a whole, because that doesn't apply to our pilots. Sounds like both you and that Captain are still thinking lost decade and legacy bankruptcy contracts. According to the profile here on APC, AA's 757 12-year Captains are making $30/hour more than ours. Their 777 Captain rates are $36/hour higher.
Still a great job, but we gave up the top spot in pay a while ago and since most of our peers will already be on a follow-on contract by the time we sign our next, we ain't getting that back any time soon.


Does anyone know if they have any 12 year 757 Capts? and how long does it take to become a 777 Capt? Regardless, 70% plus of our flying is widebody vs 70% plus of theirs is narrow. I would still like to see their pay rate numbers on property though.

dera
08-25-2018, 10:05 PM
I doubt thatís the case for their new hire engineers.

If anything, I could see UPS/FDX relaxing the TPIC requirements. They already have to some extent. I donít see that happening with the 4 year degree requirement though.

Actually, the tech industry is moving away from 4-year degree requirements. They are realizing they are mostly a scam and have got nothing to do with how qualified you are to do your job. Especially with new hire positions.

You are saying UPS/FDX would lax requirements that actually are relevant to the pilots they want to hire, but would not budge with something completely irrelevant to them? We'll see about that.

wrxpilot
08-26-2018, 02:27 AM
Actually, the tech industry is moving away from 4-year degree requirements. They are realizing they are mostly a scam and have got nothing to do with how qualified you are to do your job. Especially with new hire positions.

You are saying UPS/FDX would lax requirements that actually are relevant to the pilots they want to hire, but would not budge with something completely irrelevant to them? We'll see about that.

Yes, because that is exactly what has been happening with the legacies.

Iíd be interested to see a job posting from one of the ďbig fiveĒ tech companies for a new engineering grad position sans degree.

Adlerdriver
08-26-2018, 04:59 AM
Does anyone know if they have any 12 year 757 Capts? and how long does it take to become a 777 Capt? Regardless, 70% plus of our flying is widebody vs 70% plus of theirs is narrow. I would still like to see their pay rate numbers on property though. I was commenting on the AA Captainís statement (incorrect) and Postalís acceptance of it as valid. Thatís all.

If you want to try to justify pay rates that are $30+ per hour less because upgrades might be faster at FedEx for the moment or we have wider access to those lower WB rates have at it. That might make you feel better or be a valid check mark in our list of ďprosĒ, but it doesnít change the facts.

Pattern bargaining is pretty simple. Pay rates donít get an asterisk next to them during negotiations because we have more pilots than airline X making those rates. The simple fact is AA Pilots (and Delta) are being paid significantly more per hour to operate the same aircraft we do. Do I want to work there? Absolutely not. But, I think itís important for our own pilots to stop perpetuating the myth that we are still at the top in pay just because we got there by default during the lost decade.

SeeDub
08-26-2018, 05:32 AM
I was commenting on the AA Captainís statement (incorrect) and Postalís acceptance of it as valid. Thatís all.

If you want to try to justify pay rates that are $30+ per hour less because upgrades might be faster at FedEx for the moment or we have wider access to those lower WB rates have at it. That might make you feel better or be a valid check mark in our list of ďprosĒ, but it doesnít change the facts.

Pattern bargaining is pretty simple. Pay rates donít get an asterisk next to them during negotiations because we have more pilots than airline X making those rates. The simple fact is AA Pilots (and Delta) are being paid significantly more per hour to operate the same aircraft we do. Do I want to work there? Absolutely not. But, I think itís important for our own pilots to stop perpetuating the myth that we are still at the top in pay just because we got there by default during the lost decade.

Please don't mistake my comments as an attempt to justify our relatively lower pay rates. Just pointing out that pay rates aren't everything when it comes to examining the career earnings potential of one company vs another. I would much rather have their pay rates on top of everything else we have going for us at FedEx and hope to accomplish just that or more in another decade or so when our contract is open for negotiations.

PostalAV8B
08-26-2018, 06:03 AM
:confused: Uhhhh, yeah... about that. Maybe he was talking about the corporation as a whole, because that doesn't apply to our pilots. Sounds like both you and that Captain are still thinking lost decade and legacy bankruptcy contracts. According to the profile here on APC, AA's 757 12-year Captains are making $30/hour more than ours. Their 777 Captain rates are $36/hour higher.
Still a great job, but we gave up the top spot in pay a while ago and since most of our peers will already be on a follow-on contract by the time we sign our next, we ain't getting that back any time soon.

Concur with all the above...I was just a little surprised at what the captain said...plus is was an S80 crew. Not exactly at the top of their pay scale.

I just smiled and thanked them both for the ride.

PostalAV8B
08-26-2018, 06:14 AM
I was commenting on the AA Captainís statement (incorrect) and Postalís acceptance of it as valid. Thatís all.


For the record I never said I accepted the Captains statement as valid. Just simply pointed out what was said. The Magic of the Internet and individuals perceptions strikes again.

Adlerdriver
08-26-2018, 06:39 AM
For the record I never said I accepted the Captains statement as valid. Just simply pointed out what was said. The Magic of the Internet and individuals perceptions strikes again.
You pointed out what was said - I agree.
Followed immediately by a new sentence starting with “So” (which in this context equates to “therefore”)
So yes the money is one aspect of purple.
This would lead any reader to take the information following “So” to be directly related and in agreemwnt with the statement prior to it. Nothing magic about it. It’s English.
But, that wasn’t what you meant and you clarified that now.

BoilerUP
08-26-2018, 07:02 AM
Top hourly rates are easily discernible....total compensation and average comp somewhat less so.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180826/37431091239fa4876bed00f47be9d604.pnghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180826/05ff5fd4fc6e1d3f34e3d57dd897d31b.png

PostalAV8B
08-26-2018, 07:38 AM
You pointed out what was said - I agree.
Followed immediately by a new sentence starting with ďSoĒ (which in this context equates to ďthereforeĒ)

This would lead any reader to take the information following ďSoĒ to be directly related and in agreemwnt with the statement prior to it. Nothing magic about it. Itís English.
But, that wasnít what you meant and you clarified that now.

Product of city public education and public university. English was never my strong subject.

Fdxlag2
08-26-2018, 07:54 AM
Top hourly rates are easily discernible....total compensation and average comp somewhat less so.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180826/37431091239fa4876bed00f47be9d604.pnghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180826/05ff5fd4fc6e1d3f34e3d57dd897d31b.png

Add a PBS slider.

midnightshuttle
08-26-2018, 03:41 PM
Somewhere on this board someone was saying they made 757 capt at FedEx in 28mo. True?

Speaking of pay FedEx is in negotiations in what 2yrs? Brown to follow. No big deal the whole industry is cyclical eventually it all comes around.

Oh and my past comment, no offense. Brown and Purple have two distinctly different cultures. Not saying one is better its just two different ways of doing a task.

PostalAV8B
08-26-2018, 05:52 PM
Somewhere on this board someone was saying they made 757 capt at FedEx in 28mo. True?


Possibly. Friend of mine who started DEC 15, activated 757 Capt this month and is not the anchor on the list.

VamosALaPlaya
08-27-2018, 06:02 AM
UPS doesnít require one. I know several overthere that dont have one. One in fact has a GED.

FedEx absolutely not gonna relax the requirement. Just not in thier mentality.

UPS is a trucking company, FedEx is a branch of the military falling somewhere between the USAF & USN.

The second part of this last idiotic statement is why I did not go to Fedex after having multiple offers. The mentality of ďGodís gift to aviationĒ, just like Delta, is a big turn off for many. Even with a Masters Deg, 10k hours, plenty of IP/CA time, while in MEM, I always felt everyone had something up their you know what. I actually enjoyed very much our new hire ride along and the big emphasis on community involvement, as opposed to being the title sponsor of one of the most elitistic sports.

Fdxlag2
08-27-2018, 06:12 AM
The second part of this last idiotic statement is why I did not go to Fedex after having multiple offers. The mentality of ďGodís gift to aviationĒ, just like Delta, is a big turn off for many. Even with a Masters Deg, 10k hours, plenty of IP/CA time, while in MEM, I always felt everyone had something up their you know what. I actually enjoyed very much our new hire ride along and the big emphasis on community involvement, as opposed to being the title sponsor of one of the most elitistic sports.

We feel really deprived that you didnít pick us. Tell me again how egotistical we all are.

tomgoodman
08-27-2018, 06:40 AM
We feel really deprived that you didnít pick us. Tell me again how egotistical we all are.

ZING!! :p

LunkerHunter
08-27-2018, 07:02 AM
The second part of this last idiotic statement is why I did not go to Fedex after having multiple offers. The mentality of ďGodís gift to aviationĒ, just like Delta, is a big turn off for many. Even with a Masters Deg, 10k hours, plenty of IP/CA time, while in MEM, I always felt everyone had something up their you know what. I actually enjoyed very much our new hire ride along and the big emphasis on community involvement, as opposed to being the title sponsor of one of the most elitistic sports.

Havenít run into the GGtA mentality here at all; in fact itís been quite the opposite. Every CA Iíve flown with so far has been enthusiastic about offering up something whether it be flying techniques, bidding tips, or a steak dinner and drinks. FWIW, the FedEx Cup wasnít mentioned once during basic indoc... maybe thatís because some of the filler time was devoted to asking for participation/donations to the Make A Wish Foundation. I dunno, the charities youíre involved with are probably way better. Just one guyís experience. Maybe your expectation that they roll out the red carpet for you based on your impressive resume (before you were even technically on property, right?) set you up for disappointment.

brn2fly1
08-27-2018, 07:58 AM
Clearly he jumpseats domestically and sees only the MEM sort which probably isn't the most appealing thing to see if you're not on the inside. So try not to take offense when he said what he said, it was his opinion after all.

I happen to think flying boxes is the way to go for a variety of different reasons (just not at Atlas!).

To each his own.

Back to the original post, has anyone heard of FedEx dropping the 4 year requirement? I know it's not a hard requirement at UPS...

One of the VPs told a group of FDA pilots that the degree requirement is going away. Itís inevitable with the current pilot supply environment.

Out West
08-27-2018, 08:50 AM
Unfortunate but probably true, eventually.

No Land 3
08-27-2018, 10:33 AM
"Community" is a keyword for progressive socialism, I would of ran away too.

Saafer
08-28-2018, 06:33 PM
"Community" is a keyword for progressive socialism, I would of ran away too.

I would HAVE run away too :-)

ARAMP1
08-28-2018, 06:49 PM
Somewhere on this board someone was saying they made 757 capt at FedEx in 28mo. True?
Bid awarded at 26 months...hit the line as a 75 captain at 31 months. Now living the reserve life. :cool:

FXDX
08-29-2018, 06:35 AM
..............



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