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View Full Version : CFI to United Airlines


Lockonn
08-26-2018, 01:32 PM
Good afternoon all,

I have been hired by LAT Arizona (Flight School) to work as a CFI for 1.5 years to then transition directly to United Airlines. It is by far, the quickest way to get to a legacy carrier! I wanted to start this thread to inform anyone interested about the program to help guide you through the process. If you are approaching minimum 500 hours or have more, please feel free to private message me to get more details on the program.


GuardPolice
08-26-2018, 01:50 PM
How will you get around the 1000 fixed-wing turbine time requirement United has?

wrxpilot
08-26-2018, 01:54 PM
This will be a fun thread!


Super27
08-26-2018, 02:24 PM
I mean it sounds insane, but their website is advertising what the OP said: https://www.latcpp.com/.

There's got to be some catch that I'm missing? I can't imagine that United is really desperate enough that they are willing to hire CFIs over pilots with air carrier experience...

badflaps
08-26-2018, 02:43 PM
Do they go to UAL or UAL Express?

turboprop87
08-26-2018, 02:49 PM
There are a few on property that started indoc the class after mine.

So it is indeed a thing.

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Lockonn
08-26-2018, 03:57 PM
It is as described. So far they have had 3 complete the training and are completed with IOE with UAL, not Express. Roughly takes 2 years in total from initial start date at LAT Arizona to start date at UAL. The kicker for the program is they waive the 1000 PIC jet time requirement.

rickair7777
08-26-2018, 08:14 PM
The pilot shortage has officially arrived!

TiredSoul
08-26-2018, 08:17 PM
Am I the only one who’s just a tiny teeny bit peefed?
10k+ hrs & 3 types
What’s the catch? Tied hand and foot for life?
Firstborn ?

WesternSkies
08-26-2018, 08:18 PM
Will they hire airline pilots?
I have 500 hours.

SoFloFlyer
08-26-2018, 09:33 PM
How many people are in the hiring pool for UAL that CFI at that school?

Lockonn
08-27-2018, 05:53 PM
How many people are in the hiring pool for UAL that CFI at that school?

None right now. At the completion of the 18 month commitment the 5 that have already flowed through waited two months maximum for their class date at United.

misterpretzel
08-27-2018, 10:16 PM
Good afternoon all,

I have been hired by LAT Arizona (Flight School) to work as a CFI for 1.5 years to then transition directly to United Airlines. It is by far, the quickest way to get to a legacy carrier! I wanted to start this thread to inform anyone interested about the program to help guide you through the process. If you are approaching minimum 500 hours or have more, please feel free to private message me to get more details on the program.Just looked up this program. Congrats! Unfortunately, you're probably gonna get a lot of crap but screw the haters.

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dbdevkc
08-28-2018, 03:20 PM
It is as described. So far they have had 3 complete the training and are completed with IOE with UAL, not Express. Roughly takes 2 years in total from initial start date at LAT Arizona to start date at UAL. The kicker for the program is they waive the 1000 PIC jet time requirement.

How would you ever move from the right seat to the left without having any 121 PIC turbine time? Would United actually do that - make someone a Captain with no previous 121 PIC time?

I am digging for the catch.

turboprop87
08-28-2018, 03:22 PM
How would you ever move from the right seat to the left without having any 121 PIC turbine time? Would United actually do that - make someone a Captain with no previous 121 PIC time?

I am digging for the catch.You would have the required 121 SIC time at United before upgrading. 121 PIC doesn't play into that equation.

If you needed 121 PIC to upgrade then, well, nobody could ever upgrade.

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dbdevkc
08-28-2018, 03:24 PM
You would think there is something else going on here. Something they are not stating outright. I don't know, it seems a little weird. But who knows - perhaps they are testing this out as just another avenue to get pilots.

But it does state the following:

"earn your EASA flight instructor license"

and

"While preparing to be a United pilot, you’ll be a Lufthansa Aviation Training employee teaching future airline pilots for the airlines of the Lufthansa Group."

So it sounds like you'd be teaching European student pilots to EASA standards for Lufthansa. I'd love to know what United gets out of this new FOs with no 121 PIC time...

turboprop87
08-28-2018, 04:08 PM
So it sounds like you'd be teaching European student pilots to EASA standards for Lufthansa. I'd love to know what United gets out of this new FOs with no 121 PIC time...

I'm sure it's some kind of test bed for future programs when the civilian pilot pool truly becomes dry.

Why this school? No clue. Perhaps some sweetheart deal between Star Alliance members to help keep Lufthansa's pipeline flowing?

Anyhow, plenty of guys hired without previous 121 PIC from the regionals, corporate, military, etc. Although these people had far more experience than teaching basic flight skills.


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PT6 Flyer
08-28-2018, 05:20 PM
I'd love to know what United gets out of this new FOs with no 121 PIC time...

They get: pilots who have certain minimums (four-year degree, ATP, etc.) and I guess what we could call "closely-screened individuals" (pilots who passed the Hogan psychological test, have no bad references, have been observed by UAL for 1.5 years, and have 1.5 years of reports from the flight school regarding personality, work ethic, etc.)

But what we are all wondering is, do these things offset no 121 PIC time, no 121 time at all, no turboprop time, no jet time, no "large airplane time", no dual-pilot CRM time, etc. Time will tell.

SoFloFlyer
08-28-2018, 06:45 PM
They get: pilots who have certain minimums (four-year degree, ATP, etc.) and I guess what we could call "closely-screened individuals" (pilots who passed the Hogan psychological test, have no bad references, have been observed by UAL for 1.5 years, and have 1.5 years of reports from the flight school regarding personality, work ethic, etc.)

But what we are all wondering is, do these things offset no 121 PIC time, no 121 time at all, no turboprop time, no jet time, no "large airplane time", no dual-pilot CRM time, etc. Time will tell.

FWIW, every European carrier does this. Pilots with a frozen ATPL (written only), and 250 hours, train and pass checkrides on the 737/320. I’m sure some fail out of training, but I’m sure those numbers are few. Just some food for thought is all.

tailwheel48
08-30-2018, 10:44 AM
They get: pilots who have certain minimums (four-year degree, ATP, etc.) and I guess what we could call "closely-screened individuals" (pilots who passed the Hogan psychological test, have no bad references, have been observed by UAL for 1.5 years, and have 1.5 years of reports from the flight school regarding personality, work ethic, etc.)

But what we are all wondering is, do these things offset no 121 PIC time, no 121 time at all, no turboprop time, no jet time, no "large airplane time", no dual-pilot CRM time, etc. Time will tell.

The US is the only place where you need thousands of hours to get hired. Most European/Asian carriers hire pilots with substantially less time but from more structured programs. I have no doubt that anybody with a couple of hundred hours as an instructor, who goes through a major airline new hire program will be completely capable of being an effective first officer, and, in due course, captain.

Even the USAF puts low time pilots into giant transport planes without too much difficulty.

TeamSasquatch
08-30-2018, 11:35 AM
They get: pilots who have certain minimums (four-year degree, ATP, etc.) and I guess what we could call "closely-screened individuals" (pilots who passed the Hogan psychological test, have no bad references, have been observed by UAL for 1.5 years, and have 1.5 years of reports from the flight school regarding personality, work ethic, etc.)

But what we are all wondering is, do these things offset no 121 PIC time, no 121 time at all, no turboprop time, no jet time, no "large airplane time", no dual-pilot CRM time, etc. Time will tell.

Don’t forget the added skill of “Interpreting English that is spoken by non native English speakers through many different dialects...” might be useful if there is route expansion into Europe and Asian... :D

sflpilot
08-30-2018, 01:22 PM
I wonder how many regional pilots they deem unhireable?

Paid2fly
08-30-2018, 09:25 PM
Am I the only one who’s just a tiny teeny bit peefed?
10k+ hrs & 3 types
What’s the catch? Tied hand and foot for life?
Firstborn ?










Nope, not the only one...
Talk about total b.s.!

Lockonn
08-31-2018, 08:24 AM
They picked this school because of the style of teaching that is accomplished at LAT Arizona. One individual mentioned accurately that European carriers like Lufthansa and their subsidiaries are all putting 300 hour pilots into the right seats of their A320s... the students that arrive to our flight school are handpicked after days of psychological evaluations, altitude tests, as well as 1 year of EASA theoretical ground school. We are training the 9% that pass all prerequisites to get to the core ab initio training phase in Goodyear, Az. Our teaching style here is not your normal part 61 or 141 flight instructor school. We teach the multipilot concept to a single pilot. All the call outs that are conducted at an airline are done on each flight we take the students on.

While many will deem this unfair to all those that have “paid their dues” at least those of you that are interested need to know that it is not as easy as “become a Flight instructor and go to United”. The training is intense, and it is all designed to have the students (and United CPP flight instructors) be ready to take the next step which will be for both of us (students and instructors) a step into an airline cockpit atmosphere. No catch, nor gimmicks. Believe me, I was the top skeptic out there until I applied last year, interviewed with the companies and was denied, than reapplied a year later to be going through the training now. Don’t be ignorant if your interested, you will miss the best opportunity for low time pilots out there.

Swedish Blender
08-31-2018, 09:58 AM
Even the USAF puts low time pilots into giant transport planes without too much difficulty.

Because the trainers the USAF uses are the same as the flight school.:rolleyes:

Wow

turboprop87
08-31-2018, 10:24 AM
Because the trainers the USAF uses are the same as the flight school.:rolleyes:

WowYeah. But they teach airline callouts.

I wish I had prescreened students with a year of ground training when I was teaching.

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tinman1
08-31-2018, 11:43 AM
They picked this school because of the style of teaching that is accomplished at LAT Arizona. One individual mentioned accurately that European carriers like Lufthansa and their subsidiaries are all putting 300 hour pilots into the right seats of their A320s...

Of course they like it. Lowering the bar in terms of experience creates more of an available supply of labor, which in turn means they don't have to shell out more $$$ to attract qualified pilots.

You need to tread very carefully here, bro. Don't come on here to brag and gloat about how exclusive and elite your flight school claims to be and all of that non sense. No offense to your special program with UA, but you and the others presented with similar opportunities are no more special than any other group of pilots preceding you. You all just happened to be born in the right decade.

And before everyone starts singing the praises of ab-initio airline training, don't forget that U.S. carriers used to do something similar to this decades ago but simply have not had to do this in recent times due to the existing availability of qualified pilots. Good for you if this works out, but be humble about it and realize this is purely excellent timing and has about zero to do with your piloting abilities.

Carry on :D

sherpster
08-31-2018, 01:25 PM
They picked this school because of the style of teaching that is accomplished at LAT Arizona. One individual mentioned accurately that European carriers like Lufthansa and their subsidiaries are all putting 300 hour pilots into the right seats of their A320s... the students that arrive to our flight school are handpicked after days of psychological evaluations, altitude tests, as well as 1 year of EASA theoretical ground school. We are training the 9% that pass all prerequisites to get to the core ab initio training phase in Goodyear, Az. Our teaching style here is not your normal part 61 or 141 flight instructor school. We teach the multipilot concept to a single pilot. All the call outs that are conducted at an airline are done on each flight we take the students on.

While many will deem this unfair to all those that have “paid their dues” at least those of you that are interested need to know that it is not as easy as “become a Flight instructor and go to United”. The training is intense, and it is all designed to have the students (and United CPP flight instructors) be ready to take the next step which will be for both of us (students and instructors) a step into an airline cockpit atmosphere. No catch, nor gimmicks. Believe me, I was the top skeptic out there until I applied last year, interviewed with the companies and was denied, than reapplied a year later to be going through the training now. Don’t be ignorant if your interested, you will miss the best opportunity for low time pilots out there.

Man, you sir, are clueless. Seriously clueless!

Lockonn
08-31-2018, 05:06 PM
Funny how people react on forums. Last two people to comment on this thread, it clearly is not intended for you. For all the others that are just starting their flight training, a current CFI, or are simply interested in options out there... this is for you. PM me if your interested as it will yield better, honest results than rummaging through the garbage people who have zero idea of the program are slapping at the keyboard.

BobSacamano
08-31-2018, 06:33 PM
Man, you sir, are clueless. Seriously clueless!

What’s with the insults? This guy starts a thread to tell folks about a great opportunity, and he’s definitely NOT clueless, based on the fact that he’s in the situation he’s in.

JohnBurke
08-31-2018, 07:42 PM
You would think there is something else going on here.

Not really. It's akin to the model that many international operators have already used for many years, with ab initial programs. In this case, they're using people who are already certificated, who pass their screening and enter the program and operate their way for 18 months. UAL gets a candidate who's just undergone 20 months of observation, testing, and screening, their way. That's a step up, so far as the airline is concerned, over an ab initial student, and one who arrives with much of the background and qualification and hours already out of the way.

Some of these programs formerly existed as pay-to-play. In this case, the market is good enough that there's no thought to charging applicants; simply putting them to work, and moving them in.

I suspect we'll see a lot more programs along these lines in the near future.

I also strongly suspect that we'll see an economic crash in the not too distant future, with large scale layoffs and furloughs and a lot of wide eyes wondering what happened.

That's part of the problem walking into a job with few qualifications and no experience; one isn't qualified to go anywhere else when the bottom falls out.

And it will.

misterpretzel
08-31-2018, 09:43 PM
What’s with the insults? This guy starts a thread to tell folks about a great opportunity, and he’s definitely NOT clueless, based on the fact that he’s in the situation he’s in.It's the jealousy

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ShyGuy
08-31-2018, 10:24 PM
They picked this school because of the style of teaching that is accomplished at LAT Arizona. One individual mentioned accurately that European carriers like Lufthansa and their subsidiaries are all putting 300 hour pilots into the right seats of their A320s... the students that arrive to our flight school are handpicked after days of psychological evaluations, altitude tests, as well as 1 year of EASA theoretical ground school. We are training the 9% that pass all prerequisites to get to the core ab initio training phase in Goodyear, Az. Our teaching style here is not your normal part 61 or 141 flight instructor school. We teach the multipilot concept to a single pilot. All the call outs that are conducted at an airline are done on each flight we take the students on.

While many will deem this unfair to all those that have “paid their dues” at least those of you that are interested need to know that it is not as easy as “become a Flight instructor and go to United”. The training is intense, and it is all designed to have the students (and United CPP flight instructors) be ready to take the next step which will be for both of us (students and instructors) a step into an airline cockpit atmosphere. No catch, nor gimmicks. Believe me, I was the top skeptic out there until I applied last year, interviewed with the companies and was denied, than reapplied a year later to be going through the training now. Don’t be ignorant if your interested, you will miss the best opportunity for low time pilots out there.

Germanwings FO Lubitz was “handpicked after days of psychological training” and sent to AZ for training doing a very similar program to what you describe so he could go back and be a 300 hr A320 FO. So that’s not saying much.

PRS Guitars
08-31-2018, 10:37 PM
I’m not happy to see this. You get a decent airplane manager who has very little “stick and rudder” time, experience or judgement. Everything goes fine until one day when the crap hits the fan, and the lack of the above shows in spades. Now imagine both pilots with that experience.

It’s why I feel more comfortable with American pilots up front...pretty good chance 1 of them has a solid stick and rudder background.

dbdevkc
09-01-2018, 03:38 AM
I’m not happy to see this. You get a decent airplane manager who has very little “stick and rudder” time, experience or judgement. Everything goes fine until one day when the crap hits the fan, and the lack of the above shows in spades. Now imagine both pilots with that experience.

It’s why I feel more comfortable with American pilots up front...pretty good chance 1 of them has a solid stick and rudder background.

I haven't been on these forums for very long, so have been reluctant to say that kind of thing. And to be honest, the airlines have done a very good job training pilots to follow their systemised procedures and things have been very, very safe. But I can't help but think with more and more people getting pushed through the funnel faster and faster, with less and less real world stick and rudder experience, at some point it is going to bite the industry in the arse.

And somewhat related, I'd bet if you put many of the younger/newer pilots in a taildragger with a 6-pack, they wouldn't be able to fly coordinated or land it with minimal energy. Why? To them, that doesn't matter - it not real flying anyway. I'd be curious how many of the kids have read Langewiesche's "Stick and Rudder".

John Carr
09-01-2018, 09:21 AM
I also strongly suspect that we'll see an economic crash in the not too distant future, with large scale layoffs and furloughs and a lot of wide eyes wondering what happened.

That's part of the problem walking into a job with few qualifications and no experience; one isn't qualified to go anywhere else when the bottom falls out.

And it will.

A real possibility, as we've experienced.

Anyone would be crazy to not take advantage of an opportunity like this.

But along the lines of what you said, ask anyone that was hired at (insert legacy here) prior to 9/11 with ZERO TPIC how easy it was to get hired at the places that WERE hiring post 9/11 after they were furloughed.

FedEx, UPS, Spirit, AirTran, JetBlue, Atlas, just to name a few, ALL required TPIC

Hawker445
09-01-2018, 10:15 AM
Programs like this just now popping up **** me off. Screwing everyone else that busted their ass to get to the majors in low pay **** jobs just to be overtaken by a CFI in a light GA for less than 2 years. IDGAF if you signed a paper that they promised they'll train you to their standards. What BS.

How on earth do you build good judgement when these folks have never flown a JET.

BobSacamano
09-01-2018, 12:13 PM
Programs like this just now popping up **** me off. Screwing everyone else that busted their ass to get to the majors in low pay **** jobs just to be overtaken by a CFI in a light GA for less than 2 years. IDGAF if you signed a paper that they promised they'll train you to their standards. What BS.

How on earth do you build good judgement when these folks have never flown a JET.

Just the same as with the majority of new regional pilots, who are transitioning from 172s to ... wait for it ... jets.

The blind jealousy on this forum sometimes is kind of disappointing to see.

Flyhayes
09-01-2018, 12:59 PM
Just the same as with the majority of new regional pilots, who are transitioning from 172s to ... wait for it ... jets.

The blind jealousy on this forum sometimes is kind of disappointing to see.

The difference is that regional captains are used to training their first officers into into competent 121 pilots. A legacy captain on the other hand, likely has very little experience trying to transform a GA guy into an efficient 121 operator.

sherpster
09-01-2018, 01:36 PM
blind jealousy?

I am at a Legacy carrier. I quit United to come to that Legacy carrier, how in the world am I jealous?

Whats going to be worse than these guys having such little real world flying experience (which is kinda sad in itself) is that they are going to be major A-holes when they get past the first year or two at UAL. A bunch of "my sh*t dont stink" or know it all's. Maybe I am wrong but I doubt it.

Can you imagine the sadness of only having flown at an airline for 30 years with virtually no other experience? Great for the bank account but really sad because of the lack of real world experience. Life isnt all about the money, its about the journey.

misterpretzel
09-01-2018, 03:39 PM
Just the same as with the majority of new regional pilots, who are transitioning from 172s to ... wait for it ... jets.

The blind jealousy on this forum sometimes is kind of disappointing to see.Apparently the people here *****ing know more about what makes a good United pilot than United themselves.

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badflaps
09-01-2018, 04:00 PM
Apparently the people here *****ing know more about what makes a good United pilot than United themselves.

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Hey, Lindy had 500 hours when he hit Paris, went on to be a fair P-38 driver....... I know, pistons.

Hawker445
09-01-2018, 04:03 PM
Just the same as with the majority of new regional pilots, who are transitioning from 172s to ... wait for it ... jets.

The blind jealousy on this forum sometimes is kind of disappointing to see.


It's not blind jealousy.


The difference is that regional captains are used to training their first officers into into competent 121 pilots. A legacy captain on the other hand, likely has very little experience trying to transform a GA guy into an efficient 121 operator .


This.
Let alone the patience

turboprop87
09-01-2018, 04:08 PM
This.
Let alone the patienceCaptains I've flown with have all been willing to answer the dumbest of questions and provide feedback when needed. Some even go out of their way to be helpful.

I don't think they'd be happy to have to provide basic instruction, but they are far from grouches that expect perfection.

The guys and girls that get to UA through this program will be put through the same training that the rest of us have. I'm sure they're more than capable of succeeding.

The issue isn't those selected through the program. We know that. I certainly didn't feel like I belonged after the introductions were made in indoc. The caliber of people that I was surrounded by was pretty astounding.

Giving up class slots when highly qualified pilots are overlooked is what drives people nuts.

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John Carr
09-01-2018, 04:48 PM
The difference is that regional captains are used to training their first officers into into competent 121 pilots. A legacy captain on the other hand, likely has very little experience trying to transform a GA guy into an efficient 121 operator.

Slightly off topic, but VERY TRUE.

Regional LCA’s and CA’s are additionally tasked with not only helping the new pilot adapt to a new plane and company, but often how to fly a complex aircraft in a crew environment. And sadly sometimes, how to fly.

Whereas, at the legacy level that’s just not the case.

And for those screaming that “the Europeans have been doing it for years!!!”

Apples to oranges. Their screening/selection process is light years ahead of the UAL program.

And their IOE process is more, usually A LOT MORE..