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View Full Version : Brake Drop Delta requirement


Check Complete
08-26-2018, 06:02 PM
I'm with SkyWest, very senior. This is not a slam on any airline or anybody.

We recently got a new requirement that we can't drop the parking brake until we have been cleared to push. For some domiciles there are typically 10 minute delays to push, thus this is a big pay cut. We have no recourse to battle this as we have zilch representation.

My question for this group is this new rule been put to your pilots and what are your union reps able to do about it?

It was reported that your MEC told your management "NO" to what is basically a pay cut? This being said I'm presuming your time begins at parking brake drop?

Just looking for some info to pass along to the SkyWest pilot group.

Again this is not a jab at anybody or any pilot group.

Thanks for any info!


theUpsideDown
08-26-2018, 06:12 PM
I'm with SkyWest, very senior. This is not a slam on any airline or anybody.

We recently got a new requirement that we can't drop the parking brake until we have been cleared to push. For some domiciles there are typically 10 minute delays to push, thus this is a big pay cut. We have no recourse to battle this as we have zilch representation.

My question for this group is this new rule been put to your pilots and what are your union reps able to do about it?

It was reported that your MEC told your management "NO" to what is basically a pay cut? This being said I'm presuming your time begins at parking brake drop?

Just looking for some info to pass along to the SkyWest pilot group.

Again this is not a jab at anybody or any pilot group.

Thanks for any info!
Drop the hammer... Make that money.

Check Complete
08-26-2018, 06:23 PM
Problem is at SkyWest we are an "at will" employment ruling.

Management can and will and has fired people for any reason, word is a 6 year Captain was fired last week because it was reported he was on the organizing commitee.

They will fire a few just to make a statement like they have done many times before.


Flogger
08-26-2018, 06:40 PM
Problem is at SkyWest we are an "at will" employment ruling.

Management can and will and has fired people for any reason, word is a 6 year Captain was fired last week because it was reported he was on the organizing commitee.

They will fire a few just to make a statement like they have done many times before.

Well then, duh!

Get a union.

theUpsideDown
08-26-2018, 06:43 PM
Problem is at SkyWest we are an "at will" employment ruling.

Management can and will and has fired people for any reason, word is a 6 year Captain was fired last week because it was reported he was on the organizing commitee.

They will fire a few just to make a statement like they have done many times before.

Eh, not my problem. You asked what we do here. We drop the hammer and get paid, and we got 27 years of past practice backing us up. Came up about a year ago, management was trying something similar. We were right, they were wrong.

Do whatever you gotta do to keep your job. Cheers. Ill be dropping the hammer.

theUpsideDown
08-26-2018, 06:44 PM
Well then, duh!

Get a union.

That won't fix it. Maybe after 5-7 years, and their pilot group doesn't want a union anyhow so who cares. They're too good for it. Some of them still believe they make more than us.

Philknight
08-26-2018, 07:07 PM
If you all drop it when the doors closed. And they fire you all whoís going to fly the aircraft. Do what youíve always done. Eventually Chip will get the idea.

theUpsideDown
08-26-2018, 07:10 PM
If you all drop it when the doors closed. And they fire you all whoís going to fly the aircraft. Do what youíve always done. Eventually Chip will get the idea.

Pilots act in unity? Especially non union?

God i need a second to stop laughing...
... ... ...
...wait wait... wait I'm not done holding my sides yet... ... oh man you made my night.

wiggy15
08-26-2018, 07:40 PM
Our management tried this about a year ago. We politely passed since that significantly affected our pay during IROPS and during NYC in general. Hasn't come up since. Instead, we now just don't turn the beacon on until ready to push lol.

Silver02ex
08-26-2018, 09:47 PM
I'm with SkyWest, very senior. This is not a slam on any airline or anybody.

We recently got a new requirement that we can't drop the parking brake until we have been cleared to push. For some domiciles there are typically 10 minute delays to push, thus this is a big pay cut. We have no recourse to battle this as we have zilch representation.

My question for this group is this new rule been put to your pilots and what are your union reps able to do about it?

It was reported that your MEC told your management "NO" to what is basically a pay cut? This being said I'm presuming your time begins at parking brake drop?

Just looking for some info to pass along to the SkyWest pilot group.

Again this is not a jab at anybody or any pilot group.

Thanks for any info!

There's going to be a big rise in flights blocking out late if they try this. Once it starts hurting their performance, it will go back to the old ways, IMO

Blueskies21
08-27-2018, 03:20 AM
There's going to be a big rise in flights blocking out late if they try this. Once it starts hurting their performance, it will go back to the old ways, IMO

This. Several years ago they went as far as putting out a memo here saying "don't drop the brake until you're ready to push". I believe the on-time performance was below 40% for the three days it took them to rescind the memo. Even if you've got the door closed at D-3, traffic behind you could easily make you late out.

Of course with zero union protection, I suppose it's possible Skywest could fire individual pilots for on-time performance but at some point they can't fire everyone.

With regard to the 6 year guy fired for being on the organizing committee, if you're at a non-union carrier and you're on the organizing committee, you've got to keep your nose clean and follow absolutely all the rules. If you do, it's illegal to fire you for attempting to organize a union, if they haven't crossed their T's and dotted their I's they could easily be sued for that. However oftentimes the easiest way to sue for wrongful termination is through the union, so without a union you've got to go get your own lawyer.

Just one more reason I'm shocked Skywest can fill classes. I guess west coast bases trumps Pay, QOL and union protections.

GuardPolice
08-27-2018, 03:22 AM
There's going to be a big rise in flights blocking out late if they try this. Once it starts hurting their performance, it will go back to the old ways, IMO


I wouldnít be so quick to say this. This change is so they can better identify problem areas in the operation.

Swagship
08-27-2018, 04:10 AM
I'm with SkyWest, very senior. This is not a slam on any airline or anybody.

We recently got a new requirement that we can't drop the parking brake until we have been cleared to push. For some domiciles there are typically 10 minute delays to push, thus this is a big pay cut. We have no recourse to battle this as we have zilch representation.

My question for this group is this new rule been put to your pilots and what are your union reps able to do about it?

It was reported that your MEC told your management "NO" to what is basically a pay cut? This being said I'm presuming your time begins at parking brake drop?

Just looking for some info to pass along to the SkyWest pilot group.

Again this is not a jab at anybody or any pilot group.

Thanks for any info!

It's slowly cropping up again, but fortunately our contract (its a thing a union and company sign that clearly spells out work rules, requirements, pay, protection) is cut and dry. If they want to enforce this, I'd happily drop the brake at push in exchange for a rig or getting rid of SAT for marketing times.

theUpsideDown
08-27-2018, 04:16 AM
It's slowly cropping up again, but fortunately our contract (its a thing a union and company sign that clearly spells out work rules, requirements, pay, protection) is cut and dry. If they want to enforce this, I'd happily drop the brake at push in exchange for a rig or getting rid of SAT for marketing times.

And when the short the marketing times again (when the SAT language was written) you'll be begging for SAT again.

A rig here would fix a lot.

Swagship
08-27-2018, 04:53 AM
And when the short the marketing times again (when the SAT language was written) you'll be begging for SAT again.

A rig here would fix a lot.
True. Amazing how CS always manages to cut a few minutes off legs and turns to make IROP days legal.

Rigs would fix this and the firebreaks.

filejw
08-27-2018, 05:10 AM
It surprising company's haven't changed to a system based on aircraft movement as the technology is available .

Blueskies21
08-27-2018, 05:12 AM
Rigs would fix this and the firebreaks.

I'd love to get a 2:1 duty rig but I don't know what we have that's valuable enough to trade for it.

Maybe on this training scheduling LOA a better trade would have been a duty rig over an increase in long call percentage.

I've heard the company wants to end in-class recurrent and do it all remote via LMS, maybe that's valuable enough for a rig or another day off for line holders to match reserves.

I want a duty rig but it'll be hard to secure one.

Punkah Louvre
08-27-2018, 05:14 AM
True. Amazing how CS always manages to cut a few minutes off legs and turns to make IROP days legal.

Rigs would fix this and the firebreaks.

An explanation of Ratio in Guarantee
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/articles/job-search-articles/trip-and-duty-rigs-101.html

Blueskies21
08-27-2018, 05:17 AM
It surprising company's haven't changed to a system based on aircraft movement as the technology is available .

They have here for 117 flight time, it's now based on forward movement but they can't change brake release for pay without negotiating with the union because that's defined in our contract.

For Skywest they could change theirs tomorrow and they'd have nothing to do about it. No union. No contract.

Mesabah
08-27-2018, 05:17 AM
When you outsource the ramp operation, this is what you get. No matter how hard they try to fix the ramp, if you don't proactively drop the brake, on-time performance will go down the tubes.

amcnd
08-27-2018, 05:37 AM
No one got fired for ďpromoting alpaĒ.....

theUpsideDown
08-27-2018, 06:53 AM
They have here for 117 flight time, it's now based on forward movement but they can't change brake release for pay without negotiating with the union because that's defined in our contract.

For Skywest they could change theirs tomorrow and they'd have nothing to do about it. No union. No contract.

Oh God, now you done it. They'll be here any minute defending their pilot student council.

It's getting tougher to do though, I'm sure.

saxman66
08-27-2018, 06:54 AM
No one got fired for ďpromoting alpaĒ.....



They found a couple other things to fire him for that happened awhile ago. But he happen to be the guy spearheading things for organizing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

theUpsideDown
08-27-2018, 07:02 AM
They found a couple other things to fire him for that happened awhile ago. But he happen to be the guy spearheading things for organizing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's the risk you take being an organizer, but he would have been treated with kid gloves by HR. Otherwise he'll have his job back shortly. Either someone else steps up or you continue doing what you all signed up for, undercutting other regionals and praying it never bites you.

Check Complete
08-27-2018, 07:16 AM
It's pretty tough here with the Utah strength koolaid.

The guy that got fired was on the organizing commitee and the company dredged up things from months ago.

Remember we are an "at will" employer and can be fired for anything or simply nothing.

Our glee club representation is bought and paid for by management, so there's no help there either.

theUpsideDown
08-27-2018, 07:32 AM
It's pretty tough here with the Utah strength koolaid.

The guy that got fired was on the organizing commitee and the company dredged up things from months ago.

Remember we are an "at will" employer and can be fired for anything or simply nothing.

Our glee club representation is bought and paid for by management, so there's no help there either.
Even at a real company fireable offenses often come from acts months in the past management just finds out about.

I've seen guys get fired from at will employment states, and that after one day. The funniest case was telling a guy he was fired, the private lawyer who the pilot retained had his job back with two phone calls. Best part was he was paid to sit at home until the situation was resolved.

I didn't think there would be any help from your student council. I was pretty sure i made that clear, but if not let me do so now. You're effed.

gojo
08-27-2018, 08:03 AM
It's pretty tough here with the Utah strength koolaid.

The guy that got fired was on the organizing commitee and the company dredged up things from months ago.

Remember we are an "at will" employer and can be fired for anything or simply nothing.

Our glee club representation is bought and paid for by management, so there's no help there either.

Thatís the risk you take for being non-union in this business. Skywest had a pretty good reputation for keeping up with the union airlines in the past. In some cases maybe even better. But things change. Heck, itís not even the same upper management team today. I for one would not take it on faith that theyíre going to play nice

Chief Brody
08-27-2018, 08:10 AM
If they don't want you releasing the brake prior to push then don't be in a huge hurry to release the brake. Do everything by the book.
Lets see what happens to the middle manager who came up with this brilliant idea. When your on time departures fall down with the likes of Frontier I expect this brainchild of an idea will go away.

WHOisHMSHost
08-27-2018, 08:16 AM
They have here for 117 flight time, it's now based on forward movement but they can't change brake release for pay without negotiating with the union because that's defined in our contract.

For Skywest they could change theirs tomorrow and they'd have nothing to do about it. No union. No contract.

OO has the same set up as you for the 117 calculator.

WHOisHMSHost
08-27-2018, 08:17 AM
They found a couple other things to fire him for that happened awhile ago. But he happen to be the guy spearheading things for organizing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HR stuff or airplane flying stuff?

Bonanzer
08-27-2018, 08:30 AM
I'm with SkyWest, very senior. This is not a slam on any airline or anybody.

We recently got a new requirement that we can't drop the parking brake until we have been cleared to push. For some domiciles there are typically 10 minute delays to push, thus this is a big pay cut. We have no recourse to battle this as we have zilch representation.

My question for this group is this new rule been put to your pilots and what are your union reps able to do about it?

It was reported that your MEC told your management "NO" to what is basically a pay cut? This being said I'm presuming your time begins at parking brake drop?

Just looking for some info to pass along to the SkyWest pilot group.

Again this is not a jab at anybody or any pilot group.

Thanks for any info!

As particular as Delta is about on time performance, Iím kinda shocked Skywest management would do this. On time performance will drop significantly.

theUpsideDown
08-27-2018, 08:56 AM
As particular as Delta is about on time performance, Iím kinda shocked Skywest management would do this. On time performance will drop significantly.

Yeah but skywest managers will fight the delay codes and put it on the ramp. Trust me, if every regional did this (and sacrificed pay) the ramp wouldnt suck. In fact, mainline would probably have to take it over.

You (endeavor) guys may not believe this, but this is gonna be amazing for us. Skywest pilots takes the pay cut to expose the ramp for useless.

For the years of undercutting us, this almost makes up for it, so thank you skywest.

GuardPolice
08-27-2018, 09:05 AM
If they don't want you releasing the brake prior to push then don't be in a huge hurry to release the brake. Do everything by the book.

Lets see what happens to the middle manager who came up with this brilliant idea. When your on time departures fall down with the likes of Frontier I expect this brainchild of an idea will go away.


This isnít a SkyWest thing. Itís from Delta as it's been our policy for years. Now, does everyone follow it? Thatís another story...

TheFly
08-27-2018, 10:02 AM
As particular as Delta is about on time performance, Iím kinda shocked Skywest management would do this. On time performance will drop significantly.

I have yet to see any official memo from OO about this. CheckComplete...can you provide a reference?

Avrogod
08-27-2018, 11:23 AM
I wouldnít be so quick to say this. This change is so they can better identify problem areas in the operation.

This is a ridiculous excuse. Delta has reprogrammed the ACARS to see when the wheels are rolling on pushback. They donít have to pull $$$ out of crewmembers pockets in order to identify the problems. They can already see that. This was purely a cost cutting maneuver.

GuardPolice
08-27-2018, 11:27 AM
This is a ridiculous excuse. Delta has reprogrammed the ACARS to see when the wheels are rolling on pushback. They donít have to pull $$$ out of crewmembers pockets in order to identify the problems. They can already see that. This was purely a cost cutting maneuver.


Interesting...I didnít know Delta had authority to change the ACARS at SkyWest. This is a change in procedure, not software.

Mesabah
08-27-2018, 11:34 AM
I just hope they don't plan on flying any slower.

tomgoodman
08-27-2018, 11:37 AM
Years ago, some beancounter decided to connect the paylog to safety-related items like the parking brake or the rotating beacon. He should have been kicked for this idea. :mad:

GuardPolice
08-27-2018, 11:45 AM
I just hope they don't plan on flying any slower.


9E uses TLW and tactical CI, right?

Bonanzer
08-27-2018, 11:47 AM
Yeah but skywest managers will fight the delay codes and put it on the ramp. Trust me, if every regional did this (and sacrificed pay) the ramp wouldnt suck. In fact, mainline would probably have to take it over.

You (endeavor) guys may not believe this, but this is gonna be amazing for us. Skywest pilots takes the pay cut to expose the ramp for useless.

For the years of undercutting us, this almost makes up for it, so thank you skywest.

Iím actually Republic, just took interest in this thread. Our policy for brake drop is still communication with ground crew for all codeshares. We had a similar issue a few years back with united changing block out to wheel movement on the push. Fortunately for us it violated our contracts definition of block time so it couldnít be instituted.

Avrogod
08-27-2018, 11:52 AM
Interesting...I didnít know Delta had authority to change the ACARS at SkyWest. This is a change in procedure, not software.

Yes, they directed a change to both OO and 9E that captured several additional metrics including wheels rolling on pushback. The new version rolled out and was installed at both properties several months ago. I would argue that they donít have authority to change procedure at an airline as that would involve operational control.

Avrogod
08-27-2018, 11:56 AM
9E uses TLW and tactical CI, right?

We do not. It was going to be rolled out but turned off at Deltaís request. They have us fly in and out of NYC at M.80 to maintain on time arrivals, also at DLs request. It just wastes fuel but for some reason itís what DL wants.

GuardPolice
08-27-2018, 11:58 AM
Yes, they directed a change to both OO and 9E that captured several additional metrics including wheels rolling on pushback. The new version rolled out and was installed at both properties several months ago. I would argue that they donít have authority to change procedure at an airline as that would involve operational control.



We do not. It was going to be rolled out but turned off at Deltaís request. They have us fly in and out of NYC at M.80 to maintain on time arrivals, also at DLs request. It just wastes fuel but for some reason itís what DL wants.



All good info, thanks.

As far as the higher fuel burn goes, Delta has shown a propensity to spend money to keep the operation as reliable as possible so Iím not surprised about that.

Dorp
08-27-2018, 03:22 PM
I'm with SkyWest, very senior. This is not a slam on any airline or anybody.

We recently got a new requirement that we can't drop the parking brake until we have been cleared to push. For some domiciles there are typically 10 minute delays to push, thus this is a big pay cut. We have no recourse to battle this as we have zilch representation.

My question for this group is this new rule been put to your pilots and what are your union reps able to do about it?

It was reported that your MEC told your management "NO" to what is basically a pay cut? This being said I'm presuming your time begins at parking brake drop?

Just looking for some info to pass along to the SkyWest pilot group.

Again this is not a jab at anybody or any pilot group.

Thanks for any info!

For us it was a two fold response to the company. Yes, we said ďUmm.. noĒ to the companyís drive to keep the brake up until push but we also spoke to them in words theyíd understand. ďYou either want on-time departures or you want to fix latency. Canít have both, take your pick.Ē As others have said, without an actual union, I wish yíall the best of luck.

wiggy15
08-27-2018, 04:45 PM
9E uses TLW and tactical CI, right?

9E uses "if you're not clacking, you're slacking". .82 Tally Ho!

Jk3728
08-27-2018, 07:26 PM
9E uses "if you're not clacking, you're slacking". .82 Tally Ho!

^^^^^
This 😂 100%

Mesabah
08-28-2018, 04:01 AM
9E uses TLW and tactical CI, right?
We did have a fuel savings plan in place, but customer service is the focus. So go fast everywhere, and APU extended use for cabin temperature control.

WMUFlyboy1
08-28-2018, 05:00 AM
The clacker doesn't go off until after you pass through the first red bar on the CRJ. Ask any 9E pilot.

theUpsideDown
08-28-2018, 05:15 AM
I swear to God you all better be joking or been there on accident. We had a rash of idiots here years back and we shamed them into flying like an adult. We'll do it again.

Corppilot36
08-28-2018, 05:47 AM
9E uses "if you're not clacking, you're slacking". .82 Tally Ho!

Hahaha!

Thatís more like it, Iím seening more and more M 0.80 on the legs page of the realease.

It used to be that inbound to NYC M.80 was the standard, but nowadays M.80 is normal going in or out of NYC.

Punkah Louvre
08-28-2018, 08:54 AM
Hahaha!

Thatís more like it, Iím seening more and more M 0.80 on the legs page of the realease.

It used to be that inbound to NYC M.80 was the standard, but nowadays M.80 is normal going in or out of NYC.
Unless you're in one of the short 3. The 700's are typically filed at .74...

theUpsideDown
08-28-2018, 09:13 AM
Unless you're in one of the short 3. The 700's are typically filed at .74...

Only because no one has gone through to change all default pairings to be .80. not even dispatchers think those 700s will be around long enough that the 700s are worth it.

wiggy15
08-28-2018, 10:44 AM
Unless you're in one of the short 3. The 700's are typically filed at .74...

I like to think of the filed speeds as "suggestions"

Dynasty22
08-28-2018, 02:53 PM
There's going to be a big rise in flights blocking out late if they try this. Once it starts hurting their performance, it will go back to the old ways, IMO

You would think. Ask those at PSA how well thatís going for them.

TalkTurkey
08-28-2018, 03:17 PM
I love how fast people like to fly. Every minute you fly faster is 1 to 2 dollars out of your check that delta gets to keep. Management loves it as management gets incentives on your OPR metrics. Keep clacking folks. Love it.

Now in regards to the OPís message, well thereís a few things about dropping brake for push. 1, welcome to New York City. You can take those routes right out of us and enjoy your pay cut for which you canít do squat about. 2, dropping the break for push and eliminating latency is a way Delta subsidizes their lazy ground staffers to you so you can pay for their slow performance and nothing has to get fixed. 3, if you canít fight it, sorry. Should have worked somewhere else. No offense. Honestly. Business as usual.

JulesWinfield
08-28-2018, 05:40 PM
I love how fast people like to fly. Every minute you fly faster is 1 to 2 dollars out of your check that delta gets to keep. Management loves it as management gets incentives on your OPR metrics. Keep clacking folks. Love it.

Now in regards to the OPís message, well thereís a few things about dropping brake for push. 1, welcome to New York City. You can take those routes right out of us and enjoy your pay cut for which you canít do squat about. 2, dropping the break for push and eliminating latency is a way Delta subsidizes their lazy ground staffers to you so you can pay for their slow performance and nothing has to get fixed. 3, if you canít fight it, sorry. Should have worked somewhere else. No offense. Honestly. Business as usual.

We don't get paid block or better.

Swagship
08-28-2018, 05:54 PM
We don't get paid block or better.

Nope, but you can beat SAT with the right combo.

JulesWinfield
08-28-2018, 06:42 PM
Nope, but you can beat SAT with the right combo.

Sure, but the stars have to align properly for that to happen, especially with the built in buffers in NYC. I've seen captains taxi painfully slow and purposely not set the brake to squeeze an extra cheeseburger out of Delta. At some point, you have to be a professional.

Avroman
08-28-2018, 09:52 PM
I'm with SkyWest, very senior. This is not a slam on any airline or anybody.

We recently got a new requirement that we can't drop the parking brake until we have been cleared to push. For some domiciles there are typically 10 minute delays to push, thus this is a big pay cut. We have no recourse to battle this as we have zilch representation.

My question for this group is this new rule been put to your pilots and what are your union reps able to do about it?

It was reported that your MEC told your management "NO" to what is basically a pay cut? This being said I'm presuming your time begins at parking brake drop?

Just looking for some info to pass along to the SkyWest pilot group.

Again this is not a jab at anybody or any pilot group.

Thanks for any info!

This was brought up to a group of us by the CP... Our response at first was, NOPE, then I said, well that's fine if you want to change our pay to DOOR CLOSE TO DOOR OPEN ONLY, my brake will stay set... Crickets... My brake is off as the door closes and doesn't go on after landing til I call for door open... you want me to sit unpaid for 3 hours (that constantly are turning into 5+ before the last leg home.... FUPM!. Grow some nuts and at least form an in house union OO... FUPM or find 4500 new pilots.. in 2 weeks...

Avroman
08-28-2018, 10:03 PM
For us it was a two fold response to the company. Yes, we said ďUmm.. noĒ to the companyís drive to keep the brake up until push but we also spoke to them in words theyíd understand. ďYou either want on-time departures or you want to fix latency. Canít have both, take your pick.Ē As others have said, without an actual union, I wish yíall the best of luck.

If they wanted reliable, they would get the F out of the Northeast, and take us with them... but the idiots that live and work there are so used to paying 50% more for EVERYTHING than the rest of the country that the money outweighs the crap show that is operating there.

Avroman
08-28-2018, 10:08 PM
Sure, but the stars have to align properly for that to happen, especially with the built in buffers in NYC. I've seen captains taxi painfully slow and purposely not set the brake to squeeze an extra cheeseburger out of Delta. At some point, you have to be a professional.

We have a former Director of Ops here that has a boat named "the extra tenth", I'll give you one minute to figure that one out...

theUpsideDown
08-29-2018, 01:09 AM
Sure, but the stars have to align properly for that to happen, especially with the built in buffers in NYC. I've seen captains taxi painfully slow and purposely not set the brake to squeeze an extra cheeseburger out of Delta. At some point, you have to be a professional.

The built in buffers aren't sat. Im over sat on the reg. If someone's milking it, that borderline stupid, but my on time has to be close to good and i beat sat. The real problem ive found is fos cant log into rainmaker and if they can they dont know what anything means. True story. About half of you think FLICA is somehow related to pay, the other half cant be bothered to learn where their paycheck comes from.

Avroman
08-29-2018, 05:11 AM
Sure, but the stars have to align properly for that to happen, especially with the built in buffers in NYC. I've seen captains taxi painfully slow and purposely not set the brake to squeeze an extra cheeseburger out of Delta. At some point, you have to be a professional.

I've delayed the brake set/door open when we are late and I'm trying to give the station the full 35 minutes to turn the plane. With a lot of pink tags to deal with these stations are already hard pressed to successfully turn in 35 minutes, that extra 50 seconds has often made the difference. Now I don't taxi at rotation like Southwest, nor do I get passed by snails like American.

TalkTurkey
08-29-2018, 07:29 AM
If they wanted reliable, they would get the F out of the Northeast, and take us with them... but the idiots that live and work there are so used to paying 50% more for EVERYTHING than the rest of the country that the money outweighs the crap show that is operating there.

So youíre calling everyone who works and lives there an idiot? Just want to get that straight so I can tell them all who says that.

Blueskies21
08-29-2018, 07:57 AM
Sure, but the stars have to align properly for that to happen, especially with the built in buffers in NYC. I've seen captains taxi painfully slow and purposely not set the brake to squeeze an extra cheeseburger out of Delta. At some point, you have to be a professional.

We get paid scheduled AVERAGE time or better. Do you know how averages work? Every time you're above the average you're making money for everyone when the new SAT's are calculated.

I don't taxi slow, but I drop the brake at door close. You'd be surprised how often we're over SAT, and at my rate I get a cheeseburger's amount of pay every 3 minutes. I'm gonna get pretty fat.

You never know when something is going to crop up to delay your push, if you're sitting there with the brake set waiting for departure time, you're potentially losing money if you could have been over SAT on this leg. On time door close is D-3; on four legs even if nothing goes wrong, you could be losing 12 minutes by keeping the brake set. That's like $15-20 at Captain's rates.

If they want us to hold the brake release then they should pay us door close to door open, if they change that I'll drop the brake whenever they'd like.

CMA757
08-29-2018, 08:28 AM
Don't be confused by this thread. On the line at 9E, when the door is shut the brake gets dropped. There is no discussion.

Casualinterest
08-31-2018, 11:25 AM
Don't be confused by this thread. On the line at 9E, when the door is shut the brake gets dropped. There is no discussion.Lol thanks for getting back on the rails

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Baradium
08-31-2018, 11:35 AM
Don't be confused by this thread. On the line at 9E, when the door is shut the brake gets dropped. There is no discussion.

It is, however, what mainline does and is likely where the thought to change policy comes from. The problem is that mainline gets paid BOB so SATs don't matter and block is usually long enough.

Avroman
09-03-2018, 08:08 PM
So you’re calling everyone who works and lives there an idiot? Just want to get that straight so I can tell them all who says that.

Yea in a way I guess I am. Why live in that crowding, congestion, cost (and in many parts filth, hello
the piles of garbage trashbags all along Times Square) and the lousy weather for the same price you could live in San Diego or much of Hawaii? The only major city on the continent I'd less rather be in is Mexico City. In the words of Ted DiBiase, "Everyone has their price" I just know my price is so wildly far above what any pilot (or employee) of Endeavor would ever make that it's not worth thinking of... ( my price would be a number so stupid it's not worth mentioning, just as some feel about my city, and that's just fine... we luckily still have a choice for now)

greenroute
09-07-2018, 09:49 AM
Iím below min day almost every single day in September, therefore I fly as fast as I feel like.