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View Full Version : Class Drop List


Gooselives
08-27-2018, 11:13 AM
A place to talk about class size and equipment assignments.


BigZ
08-27-2018, 11:34 AM
What's wrong with the other thread made specifically for this half a year ago and neglected since?

DanRoman
09-10-2018, 05:37 AM
24 today. 3 DEC CRJ and 21 FO. FOís all 175, choice of DFW or ORD.


Cyio
09-10-2018, 05:54 AM
24 today. 3 DEC CRJ and 21 FO. FOís all 175, choice of DFW or ORD.
This makes me think we are going to have lots of 175 FO's upgrading next month.

Pedro4President
09-10-2018, 06:15 AM
This makes me think we are going to have lots of 175 FO's upgrading next month.

Yep. That would make sense because lots of those guys back then went straight to line holders with little to no time on reserve.

Attrition seems to be a bit faster on the 175 compared to the 145. Also factor in 175 fleet growth.

FlyGuy2112
09-10-2018, 06:25 AM
Sucks for the DECís who wanted the 145. They have been almost guaranteeing 145 LGA drops.

wiz5422
09-10-2018, 06:30 AM
Sucks for the DECís who wanted the 145. They have been almost guaranteeing 145 LGA drops.

Another way to introduce them to being "ENVOYED" from the start.

They will get use to it.

Bruno82
09-10-2018, 06:47 AM
Thank you for the update on the class drops.

highfarfast
09-10-2018, 06:48 AM
On the Standing Vacancies, are they limited in number by the number left unfilled on a regular vacancy/dispacement run?

If so, is it possible those spots have been taken now and they canít offer the 145 to DEC until they have another vacancy bid?

Houpilot2001
09-10-2018, 07:19 AM
On the Standing Vacancies, are they limited in number by the number left unfilled on a regular vacancy/dispacement run?

If so, is it possible those spots have been taken now and they canít offer the 145 to DEC until they have another vacancy bid?

I'm cant a speak to that but I would assume you get what was offered on the RF 950 bid after that vacancy. But you know what assuming gets you.

Also, I wouldn't risk getting displaced to an A/C you dont want by doing the SV. Just wait a few more weeks until the vacancy runs.

highfarfast
09-10-2018, 07:26 AM
I'm cant a speak to that but I would assume you get what was offered on the RF 950 bid after that vacancy. But you know what assuming gets you.

Also, I wouldn't risk getting displaced to an A/C you dont want by doing the SV. Just wait a few more weeks until the vacancy runs.

The question was just in relation to the fact no DEC were offerred 145 in class today. It makes me wonder if thatís even an available option at the moment for anyone.

That said, Iím pretty sure when you bid for a standing vacancy you are bidding for a specific A/C and base and arenít putting yourself at risking being put in something else.

climbviathesid
09-10-2018, 11:54 AM
Does anyone know how much longer they will continue having the all 175 classes for FOs? It seems like that past few classes have been this way. Is the 145 well staffed currently? Or is envoy just preparing for the additional 2 175s a month? Thanks

pitchattitude
09-10-2018, 12:21 PM
Does anyone know how much longer they will continue having the all 175 classes for FOs? It seems like that past few classes have been this way. Is the 145 well staffed currently? Or is envoy just preparing for the additional 2 175s a month? Thanks
Someone knows. But that someone will not share that information with the public, especially in this format. Every one else is just speculating.

My speculation is they will continue to have increased numbers of 175s, but they will have to continue to hire into the 145 soon as well.

There is a larger number of FOs hired into the 175 in 2016 that will be upgrading. There have been large numbers of FOs on the 145 that have sat reserve and not flown as much recently. They are trying to get the amount of pie to equal the amount of ice cream but there is a lot of knee jerking going on.

The truth today will likely change tomorrow, or the week after. Maybe both.

If you want to be guaranteed to fly the 175, especially both as FO and CA, donít come to Envoy.

Tomhawker
09-13-2018, 05:30 PM
Can anyone whoís recently been through Indoc PM me to answer a few questions? Iíll be in the 8 October 145 class.

pitchattitude
09-13-2018, 07:15 PM
Can anyone whoís recently been through Indoc PM me to answer a few questions? Iíll be in the 8 October 145 class.

How do you know what airframe you will get, or is that just what you hope for?

Tomhawker
09-13-2018, 08:37 PM
How do you know what airframe you will get, or is that just what you hope for?

I already started training but left for a military obligation. Restarting next month.

pitchattitude
09-14-2018, 01:08 AM
I already started training but left for a military obligation. Restarting next month.

Thank you for your service and welcome back.

Tomhawker
09-14-2018, 08:34 AM
Thank you for your service and welcome back.

Thanks, Iím excited to be back.

SeaHunter
09-14-2018, 09:20 AM
Hey does anyone know how long it will take to get Miami based on the 145 out of the school house, if the 145 is available in training?

havick206
09-14-2018, 09:23 AM
Hey does anyone know how long it will take to get Miami based on the 145 out of the school house, if the 145 is available in training?

CA or FO?

Filler

SeaHunter
09-14-2018, 09:33 AM
CA or FO?

Filler

On the FO side.

Bigpimppilot
09-14-2018, 09:37 AM
How long were you out for? After a certain amount of time your able to bid for what you can hold. Are you sure you have to do the 145? Or perhaps you want to.

SeaHunter
09-14-2018, 09:42 AM
How long were you out for? After a certain amount of time your able to bid for what you can hold. Are you sure you have to do the 145? Or perhaps you want to.

I’ll be starting indoc in Nov just wondering if the 145 will be available, and how long it would take to get back to Miami. The 175 would be great but since it’s not based in Miami I think the QOL would be better on the 145.

havick206
09-14-2018, 09:48 AM
Iíll be starting indoc in Nov just wondering if the 145 will be available, and how long it would take to get back to Miami. The 175 would be great but since itís not based in Miami I think the QOL would be better on the 145.

No one knows what will be available for each class.

145 guys have been able to bid back to Mia on the FO side after one or two bid cycles. 3-6 months.

A lot that went to Mia have since come back to Lga as they never flew at all on reserve in Mia. So that will help speed up a transfer to Mia for you.

SeaHunter
09-14-2018, 09:54 AM
No one knows what will be available for each class.

145 guys have been able to bid back to Mia on the FO side after one or two bid cycles. 3-6 months.

A lot that went to Mia have since come back to Lga as they never flew at all on reserve in Mia. So that will help speed up a transfer to Mia for you.

Thanks,

Also if I donít get the 145 Miami, and say I get 175 instead what is the next best base to pick for QOL if Iím commuting out of FLL?

Tomhawker
09-14-2018, 11:18 AM
How long were you out for? After a certain amount of time your able to bid for what you can hold. Are you sure you have to do the 145? Or perhaps you want to.

Iím not sure if this was meant for me, but I was out for over a year. I would take the 175 if they offered it, but it doesnít sound like thatís an option. Iíll ask when I can get in touch with someone in training.

bigtime209
09-14-2018, 03:48 PM
Iíll be starting indoc in Nov just wondering if the 145 will be available, and how long it would take to get back to Miami. The 175 would be great but since itís not based in Miami I think the QOL would be better on the 145.

Training department has said all new hire FOs are going into the 175 for now. How long that will last, who knows. But the 145 training is winding down significantly. They just displaced another 7 145 instructors back to the line, along with 6 instructors doing line rotation, and additionally a handful of 145 PSIs are transitioning to the 175.

CaptJackSparrow
09-14-2018, 04:00 PM
Training department has said all new hire FOs are going into the 175 for now. How long that will last, who knows. But the 145 training is winding down significantly. They just displaced another 7 145 instructors back to the line, along with 6 instructors doing line rotation, and additionally a handful of 145 PSIs are transitioning to the 175.

The situation here is certainly a bit intriguing. The company claims a captain shortage but I personally donít see it reflected anywhere. No critical coverage, reserves not being used much at all, not much OT to go around, etc. Weíve just been stock piling pilots. Almost as if a bunch of flying is about to get dumped on us sometime in the near future...

bigtime209
09-14-2018, 04:52 PM
The situation here is certainly a bit intriguing. The company claims a captain shortage but I personally donít see it reflected anywhere. No critical coverage, reserves not being used much at all, not much OT to go around, etc. Weíve just been stock piling pilots. Almost as if a bunch of flying is about to get dumped on us sometime in the near future...

Well...a wave a new 175s is starting to roll in beginning this November. 25 planes on order if I remember correctly. At roughly 20 pilots needed for each plane, that's 500 pilots required. And considering that we're losing 29 pilots/month to flow alone throughout next year, things are gonna get very tight next year. We may not be feeling it too badly right now, but it's no doubt coming.

Jersdawg
09-14-2018, 05:11 PM
Well...a wave a new 175s is starting to roll in beginning this November. 25 planes on order if I remember correctly. At roughly 20 pilots needed for each plane, that's 500 pilots required. And considering that we're losing 29 pilots/month to flow alone throughout next year, things are gonna get very tight next year. We may not be feeling it too badly right now, but it's no doubt coming.

Ten 175s in the 4th quarter this year, then 15 next year. So theyíre definitely loading up for the future staffing needs.

pitchattitude
09-14-2018, 05:12 PM
Well...a wave a new 175s is starting to roll in beginning this November. 25 planes on order if I remember correctly. At roughly 20 pilots needed for each plane, that's 500 pilots required. And considering that we're losing 29 pilots/month to flow alone throughout next year, things are gonna get very tight next year. We may not be feeling it too badly right now, but it's no doubt coming.
True. But of you look at (and believe) the numbers RW put out in June, there is only going to be a net gain of 11 planes through the end of 2019. Not to say there arenít going to be training events as the CRJs slowly go away. I know the story of what happens to the CRJs has changed numerous times.

And then there are all those that want to wish the 20 175s that Compass has onto our certificate.

I know there is a glut of 145 FOs, but the number of 145s is not supposed to change in the next year plus. They have to start hiring into them again, soon. There is a big bubble of only 175 FOs from two years ago that is the largest number of upgrades, but that canít last more than another bid or so.

go skers
09-14-2018, 05:23 PM
Well...a wave a new 175s is starting to roll in beginning this November. 25 planes on order if I remember correctly. At roughly 20 pilots needed for each plane, that's 500 pilots required. And considering that we're losing 29 pilots/month to flow alone throughout next year, things are gonna get very tight next year. We may not be feeling it too badly right now, but it's no doubt coming.

They typically staff 10-12 pilots per plane so it's only an additional 125-150 CA to cover the new birds. If they add another 150 flows coming off the airplane over the next 12 months they'll need 300 newly minted 175 captains. It'll be busy but there won't be a lack of guys wanting that upgrade or a piece of that movement

CaptJackSparrow
09-15-2018, 02:14 AM
Well...a wave a new 175s is starting to roll in beginning this November. 25 planes on order if I remember correctly. At roughly 20 pilots needed for each plane, that's 500 pilots required. And considering that we're losing 29 pilots/month to flow alone throughout next year, things are gonna get very tight next year. We may not be feeling it too badly right now, but it's no doubt coming.

I would be more willing to believe that if they had been offering more 175 captain spots and stocking up on that side but they arenít. Plus we are supposed to lose the CRJs, slowly albeit but that still frees up some pilots. And wasnít this summer supposed to be a disaster? I never saw any staffing crunch. Not even close. Again, it just doesnít add up for me. I think thereís something in the pipeline coming this way.

bigtime209
09-15-2018, 03:34 AM
I would be more willing to believe that if they had been offering more 175 captain spots and stocking up on that side but they arenít. Plus we are supposed to lose the CRJs, slowly albeit but that still frees up some pilots. And wasnít this summer supposed to be a disaster? I never saw any staffing crunch. Not even close. Again, it just doesnít add up for me. I think thereís something in the pipeline coming this way.

Envoy returned flying to AAG for the summer.

E175 Driver
09-15-2018, 06:22 AM
Envoy returned flying to AAG for the summer.

And this is good for the flow.

MD-11Loader
09-15-2018, 09:03 AM
I would be more willing to believe that if they had been offering more 175 captain spots and stocking up on that side but they arenít. Plus we are supposed to lose the CRJs, slowly albeit but that still frees up some pilots. And wasnít this summer supposed to be a disaster? I never saw any staffing crunch. Not even close. Again, it just doesnít add up for me. I think thereís something in the pipeline coming this way.


Envoy told the mothership in May that we couldn't crew the elevated level of flying for the summer (remember when they were threatening to cancel captains vacations) and then the situation worked itself out. The 145 staffing has stabalized. Look at ORD and the increase in lines and value. Skywest pulling the 200's out to go back to ASA who will fly them for UA has created more opportunities for flying.

pitchattitude
09-15-2018, 09:43 AM
I would be more willing to believe that if they had been offering more 175 captain spots and stocking up on that side but they arenít. Plus we are supposed to lose the CRJs, slowly albeit but that still frees up some pilots. And wasnít this summer supposed to be a disaster? I never saw any staffing crunch. Not even close. Again, it just doesnít add up for me. I think thereís something in the pipeline coming this way.
The bid that should be out in the next two weeks and end of the year will hopefully offer some insight into where we are going.

rmzk
09-16-2018, 10:04 PM
Could anybody describe the situation with CRJ hiring/class now?
Any perspectives there? Do they fly a lot? What's the upgrade time there?
Thanks

dera
09-16-2018, 10:54 PM
Could anybody describe the situation with CRJ hiring/class now?
Any perspectives there? Do they fly a lot? What's the upgrade time there?
Thanks

They told our interview group last week that all new hires are going to the 175 for now.

in2deep
09-17-2018, 04:24 AM
Could anybody describe the situation with CRJ hiring/class now?
Any perspectives there? Do they fly a lot? What's the upgrade time there?
Thanks

They havent hired into the CRJ for at least 5 months now. No movement. Any small movement from FOs upgrading is offset by monthly reduction of lines. FO indefinite seat lock means you will be on reserve until theyíre projected to be gone at the start of 2020. The best aircraft in the fleet is the worst for your career.

Ijustlikeflying
09-17-2018, 04:38 AM
They told our interview group last week that all new hires are going to the 175 for now.

Thatís realistic. Have u seen the number of 145 reserve FOs in all the bases. Itís ridculous.

Pedro4President
09-17-2018, 04:49 AM
Thatís realistic. Have u seen the number of 145 reserve FOs in all the bases. Itís ridculous.

Our planners are completely failing at their jobs.

Varsity
09-17-2018, 07:19 AM
Our planners are completely failing at their jobs.

Or, you're about to take 15 145's from Trans States..

MD-11Loader
09-17-2018, 12:07 PM
Or, you're about to take 15 145's from Trans States..

This...there are a lot of flights out of DCA that will need to be covered very soon.

SilentLurker
09-17-2018, 02:06 PM
This...there are a lot of flights out of DCA that will need to be covered very soon.



PSA & PDT should be able to cover DCA flights.

I do remember AA talking about DFW, CLT, DCA were their focus growth cities.

havick206
09-17-2018, 03:41 PM
PSA & PDT should be able to cover DCA flights.

I do remember AA talking about DFW, CLT, DCA were their focus growth cities.

Should and can are two different stories. Just have a look at the PDT thread and how long itís taking them to get someone through training.

Pedro4President
09-17-2018, 03:56 PM
Or, you're about to take 15 145's from Trans States..

No please no I love my schedule. Fly five reserve days and three OT days and credit 95 hours. Never imagined life would be so good when I upgraded.

MD-11Loader
09-18-2018, 02:40 AM
PSA & PDT should be able to cover DCA flights.

I do remember AA talking about DFW, CLT, DCA were their focus growth cities.

PSA is parking 200ís in favor of 900ís which would be overkill for a lot of those routes, and PDT canít handle PHL let alone their CLT flying. Iím sure the powers that be have a plan.

FlyyGuyy
09-18-2018, 07:11 AM
PSA is parking 200ís in favor of 900ís which would be overkill for a lot of those routes, and PDT canít handle PHL let alone their CLT flying. Iím sure the powers that be have a plan.

in the last town hall thing we had at psa they mentioned that they wanted us to fly the 76 and 65 seaters out of the new terminal in DCA whenever that opens. So i would guess thats where the new 900s would be placed. and perhaps more of them in PHL?

my personal view is that phl f con has been under utilized for a long time. so many 50 seaters. seems like a missed opportunity, but i guess AA sees dca clt and dfw as more important.

SilentLurker
09-18-2018, 07:16 AM
Should and can are two different stories. Just have a look at the PDT thread and how long itís taking them to get someone through training.



PSA is parking 200ís in favor of 900ís which would be overkill for a lot of those routes, and PDT canít handle PHL let alone their CLT flying. Iím sure the powers that be have a plan.



Solid point of views. End of Q4 2018 and Q1 2019 decisions will be interesting for AAGís management team.

United Airline as a carrier has been a untouchable rockstar in this industry so far this year!Shareholders, and front line employee stakeholders are loving the culture. They seems to love Oscar & Kirbyís way of running the company... So far


Back on topic. Was there a class Monday?

DanRoman
09-18-2018, 08:02 AM
Back on topic. Was there a class Monday?

Nope, last Monday

RUkidding
09-19-2018, 04:57 AM
Iím in a class beginning the 24th

Longhornmaniac8
09-20-2018, 06:38 PM
Ugh. The possibility of getting 175 DFW right out of training is making me seriously reconsider Envoy. I had pretty much narrowed it down to Republic and Endeavor until this development.

I have an interview offer, I just need to set it up.

How are reserve times right now on the 175? Is it fairly easy to build time on this fleet, with or without a line? It seems like some of the reserve pilots aren't being utilized much on other fleets.

Obviously, no way of knowing 100% what domicile I would get out of training, but I'm looking at a late October/early November class date. Is there any reason at this point to think this sudden shift to 175 classes would change in that time frame? From what I understand, it's the new aircraft deliveries that are driving this, and those are likely to continue for a while, yes? Furthermore, I gather that 145 is full of FOs, and they're not doing much, if any, hiring into the CR7.

Like I said, I know nothing can be known 100%, I'm just trying to understand the driving forces and make the most educated decision I can.

I'm somewhat stuck between "chancing" this option and going to Republic and waiting for the IAH base, which might take 6-9 months.

Any words of wisdom?

Ijustlikeflying
09-20-2018, 07:21 PM
Ugh. The possibility of getting 175 DFW right out of training is making me seriously reconsider Envoy. I had pretty much narrowed it down to Republic and Endeavor until this development.

I have an interview offer, I just need to set it up.

How are reserve times right now on the 175? Is it fairly easy to build time on this fleet, with or without a line? It seems like some of the reserve pilots aren't being utilized much on other fleets.

Obviously, no way of knowing 100% what domicile I would get out of training, but I'm looking at a late October/early November class date. Is there any reason at this point to think this sudden shift to 175 classes would change in that time frame? From what I understand, it's the new aircraft deliveries that are driving this, and those are likely to continue for a while, yes? Furthermore, I gather that 145 is full of FOs, and they're not doing much, if any, hiring into the CR7.

Like I said, I know nothing can be known 100%, I'm just trying to understand the driving forces and make the most educated decision I can.

I'm somewhat stuck between "chancing" this option and going to Republic and waiting for the IAH base, which might take 6-9 months.

Any words of wisdom?

Donít go to a airline for a airframe. That should be last on your list of needs.

Longhornmaniac8
09-20-2018, 07:39 PM
Donít go to a airline for a airframe. That should be last on your list of needs.

It certainly is. I'd happily take the 145 in DFW, as well. All other things being equal, sure, I guess I'd have a preference for the 175, but it's just that, and nothing more.

dera
09-20-2018, 09:56 PM
Obviously, no way of knowing 100% what domicile I would get out of training, but I'm looking at a late October/early November class date.

No you're not. If you get hired, they say 3-6 months is a realistic wait for a class date.

Pedro4President
09-21-2018, 02:19 AM
Ugh. The possibility of getting 175 DFW right out of training is making me seriously reconsider Envoy. I had pretty much narrowed it down to Republic and Endeavor until this development.

I have an interview offer, I just need to set it up.

How are reserve times right now on the 175? Is it fairly easy to build time on this fleet, with or without a line? It seems like some of the reserve pilots aren't being utilized much on other fleets.

Obviously, no way of knowing 100% what domicile I would get out of training, but I'm looking at a late October/early November class date. Is there any reason at this point to think this sudden shift to 175 classes would change in that time frame? From what I understand, it's the new aircraft deliveries that are driving this, and those are likely to continue for a while, yes? Furthermore, I gather that 145 is full of FOs, and they're not doing much, if any, hiring into the CR7.

Like I said, I know nothing can be known 100%, I'm just trying to understand the driving forces and make the most educated decision I can.

I'm somewhat stuck between "chancing" this option and going to Republic and waiting for the IAH base, which might take 6-9 months.

Any words of wisdom?

Lol. Looks like someone is setting up to get Envoyed. I can almost guarantee that your class date won't offer enough 175 slots for you to get it. Murphy told me.

Longhornmaniac8
09-21-2018, 06:32 AM
Lol. Looks like someone is setting up to get Envoyed. I can almost guarantee that your class date won't offer enough 175 slots for you to get it. Murphy told me.That's almost exactly why I'm probably not going to do it. I couldn't have put it better myself.

It's one of those "I want to believe" type things!

Thanks for the little dose of reality.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

BigZ
09-21-2018, 07:06 AM
That's almost exactly why I'm probably not going to do it. I couldn't have put it better myself.

It's one of those "I want to believe" type things!

Thanks for the little dose of reality.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Still doesn't hurt to interview and watch the class drops closer to your date. No-one is forcing you into the class if you see the dynamics changing unfavorably, just give them a courtesy heads up you are not coming.
In the grand scheme of things, that would be a favor to the current pilot group, however tiny.

FlyGuy2112
09-23-2018, 07:10 AM
Is a DEC seat locked into his/her assigned aircraft and if so for how long?

MD-11Loader
09-23-2018, 07:18 AM
Is a DEC seat locked into his/her assigned aircraft and if so for how long?

Two years. They are bidding for a captain slot not being displaced to one.

BigZ
09-23-2018, 07:55 AM
Two years. They are bidding for a captain slot not being displaced to one.

That actually is a good question, since the august batch of OCC decs shows as disp in the flow plan

Amansworld
09-23-2018, 10:39 AM
You are absolutely NOT seat locked as a new hire. However once you choose to bid off that and are assigned you will be seat locked for two years or until displaced out of that seat.

SilentLurker
09-23-2018, 10:59 AM
You are absolutely NOT seat locked as a new hire. However once you choose to bid off that and are assigned you will be seat locked for two years or until displaced out of that seat.


This is factual. DECS are not seat locked for two yrs until bidding out.

Most recent vacancy (surprisingly) some DECs were able to preference bid out of ORD (CRJ/145) & also LGA. Looking back I saw DCE, OCC, OCL, OCE for known DECs.

Goes to show how quickly things can change. We all thought LGA base was the inevitable destination for all DECs just 5-6+ months ago & endless Reserve.

Check them out now.

havick206
09-23-2018, 11:13 AM
This is factual. DECS are not seat locked for two yrs until bidding out.

Most recent vacancy (surprisingly) some DECs were able to preference bid out of ORD (CRJ/145) & also LGA. Looking back I saw DCE, OCC, OCL, OCE for known DECs.

Goes to show how quickly things can change. We all thought LGA base was the inevitable destination for all DECs just 5-6+ months ago & endless Reserve.

Check them out now.

True, the next 3-4 bids should be telling though as the 2016/2017 hires hit their hours and displace to upgrade into what their seniority can hold.

It will be interesting to see the ripple effect of that the next 12 months or so.

f16jetmech
09-23-2018, 12:31 PM
This is factual. DECS are not seat locked for two yrs until bidding out.

Most recent vacancy (surprisingly) some DECs were able to preference bid out of ORD (CRJ/145) & also LGA. Looking back I saw DCE, OCC, OCL, OCE for known DECs.

Goes to show how quickly things can change. We all thought LGA base was the inevitable destination for all DECs just 5-6+ months ago & endless Reserve.

Check them out now.

Thatís why I listen to almost zero of peopleís opinions on forums. They canít see 2 months out, let alone years. Canít go with the swings...just stay level headed, have a good attitude and enjoy the ride.

DanRoman
09-24-2018, 07:56 AM
Anyone in class today? Hearing rumors the 175 train left the station and was replaced again by the 145 train.

GoFast8
09-24-2018, 08:08 AM
Class today. 9-29-18

5 OCE
29 OFE

Huge disappointment.

Bruno82
09-24-2018, 08:13 AM
Class today. 9-29-18



5 OCE

29 OFE



Huge disappointment.



I needed that 5 OCE.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DanRoman
09-24-2018, 08:21 AM
Wow, 34 is the biggest class in a while.

abcd123
09-24-2018, 08:59 AM
Class today. 9-29-18

5 OCE
29 OFE

Huge disappointment.

Those poor cadets :D

Ijustlikeflying
09-24-2018, 09:32 AM
Wow, 34 is the biggest class in a while.

I have a feeling this will be the trend with the ďend of 2016 early 2017Ē FO hiring boom pilots all upgrading on the next few bids. FOs will once again be in high demand very soon.

climbviathesid
09-24-2018, 09:50 AM
Class today. 9-29-18

5 OCE
29 OFE

Huge disappointment.

Dumb question but what does OCE and OFE stand for? 🙄

GoFast8
09-24-2018, 09:55 AM
Dumb question but what does OCE and OFE stand for? 🙄

OCE. O=ORD, C= Captain, E= EMB145
OFE. O=ORD, F=First Officer, E=EMB145

GoFast8
09-24-2018, 09:56 AM
Those poor cadets :D

Yeah. Was hoping for DFW. Anyone have an approx time from ORDó>DFW?

babs
09-24-2018, 10:12 AM
Yeah. Was hoping for DFW. Anyone have an approx time from ORDó>DFW?

Most junior FO on the 145 in DFW is a Feb 2018 hire.

GoFast8
09-24-2018, 10:50 AM
Most junior FO on the 145 in DFW is a Feb 2018 hire.

Thanks. Are mutual base transfers common or a pretty rare event?

ENH017
09-24-2018, 11:59 AM
Thanks. Are mutual base transfers common or a pretty rare event?

If you're in DFW and trying to get out, there's plenty of interested people. In your case, I doubt there's anyone interested.

GoFast8
09-24-2018, 01:23 PM
If you're in DFW and trying to get out, there's plenty of interested people. In your case, I doubt there's anyone interested.

Yeah I figured. Transfer to DFW should be under a year im hoping. Seems like 5-8 months is about average.

Crimson5
09-24-2018, 01:43 PM
Any rough estimates on the FO 145 ORD reserve time?

Bruno82
09-24-2018, 04:19 PM
Any rough estimates on the FO 145 ORD reserve time?



The FO I just flew with was hired in Oct. as I recall he was on reserve for just a few months, no more than 5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

flysooner9
09-24-2018, 04:23 PM
The FO I just flew with was hired in Oct. as I recall he was on reserve for just a few months, no more than 5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Crazy your all ready on the line and through IOE. Iím still in Sims lol

EmbaeDriver
09-24-2018, 08:35 PM
Todayís class all 145/ORD. 34 people, 4 with prior 121, 10 cadets, 5 DECs and RTPs everything else.

havick206
09-25-2018, 03:07 AM
Crazy your all ready on the line and through IOE. Iím still in Sims lol

Shouldnít have been a big surprise, everyone from PDT was telling you how logjammed the training pipeline is there.

Aredici
10-02-2018, 04:43 AM
Hi. Im bidding as a new hire FO in a couple weeks. I live in JAX and would love to have a good chance to get overnights there. Does anyone know which base has the most (or any ) JAX overnights?

Barring that i was thinking: MIA, ORD, DFW, LGA. I think ORD is the most commutable but MIA is a 45' flight (4/day fom JAX).
Thoughts?

MD-11Loader
10-02-2018, 05:10 AM
Hi. Im bidding as a new hire FO in a couple weeks. I live in JAX and would love to have a good chance to get overnights there. Does anyone know which base has the most (or any ) JAX overnights?

Barring that i was thinking: MIA, ORD, DFW, LGA. I think ORD is the most commutable but MIA is a 45' flight (4/day fom JAX).
Thoughts?

ORD 145 doesnít see JAX overnights very often. Your best bet is the 175 or 145 MIA.

arbatistoni
10-03-2018, 08:07 AM
Hi. Im bidding as a new hire FO in a couple weeks. I live in JAX and would love to have a good chance to get overnights there. Does anyone know which base has the most (or any ) JAX overnights?

Barring that i was thinking: MIA, ORD, DFW, LGA. I think ORD is the most commutable but MIA is a 45' flight (4/day fom JAX).
Thoughts?

Miami will likely get you the most jax overnights, but i doubt you will get it right out of training. it's fairly senior.

Aredici
10-06-2018, 12:37 PM
I am a new hire starting 22 OCT. i need 300 more hours to get to 1,000 Part 121. I want to bid where I will get the most flying ...Does anyone have gouge on which new FO bases are flying the most?

havick206
10-06-2018, 12:41 PM
I am a new hire starting 22 OCT. i need 300 more hours to get to 1,000 Part 121. I want to bid where I will get the most flying ...Does anyone have gouge on which new FO bases are flying the most?

Depends on the equipment.

145 LGA
175 ORD

Aredici
10-06-2018, 03:33 PM
Depends on the equipment.

145 LGA
175 ORD
Thanks for the info!

PilotPete4You
10-06-2018, 03:37 PM
I am a new hire starting 22 OCT. i need 300 more hours to get to 1,000 Part 121. I want to bid where I will get the most flying ...Does anyone have gouge on which new FO bases are flying the most?

Bro you missed the boat last year, flow is long and youíll be a bottom CA on terrible reserve rules for a long time.

DanRoman
10-08-2018, 06:31 AM
10/8 Class: 23 Total

6 DECS: 1 OCC, 5 OCE
4 OFC
3 OFE
10 OFL/DFL

dera
10-08-2018, 08:58 AM
10/8 Class: 23 Total

6 DECS: 1 OCC, 5 OCE
4 OFC
3 OFE
10 OFL/DFL

Still hiring for CRJ FO? Scary.

SilentLurker
10-08-2018, 09:21 AM
Still hiring for CRJ FO? Scary.


Yeah. Exactly.
After consolidation those 4 will hardly get to fly unless they move in base and pick up OT leftovers.

dera
10-08-2018, 09:29 AM
Yeah. Exactly.
After consolidation those 4 will hardly get to fly unless they move in base and pick up OT leftovers.

Does anyone know who ended up getting those spots? How young were they etc?

NoValueAviator
10-08-2018, 10:03 AM
Hopefully some of them were RTP and have already dropped orders and will come back to instant 175 lineholders in DFW.

in2deep
10-08-2018, 12:43 PM
Yeah. Exactly.
After consolidation those 4 will hardly get to fly unless they move in base and pick up OT leftovers.

There arent even leftovers

havick206
10-11-2018, 12:57 AM
Predictions on 10/22 class spots?

Iíll trade you for predictions on winning lotto numbers?

dera
10-11-2018, 01:01 PM
iíll trade you for predictions on winning lotto numbers?

3, 5, 8, 11, 32, 35.

henryjj
10-22-2018, 07:02 AM
Any news on todayís class?

FlyGuy2112
10-22-2018, 09:03 AM
Any news on todayís class?

23 in the class

4 DECís OCC
and a healthy mix of DFL/OFL/OFE

Oregon Trail
10-22-2018, 09:38 AM
23 in the class

4 decís occ
and a healthy mix of dfl/ofl/ofe

occ = ord captain crj?

FlyGuy2112
10-22-2018, 09:58 AM
occ = ord captain crj?

Yep.

(I need filler)

dera
10-22-2018, 10:51 AM
23 in the class

4 DECís OCC
and a healthy mix of DFL/OFL/OFE

How many cadets and OTS hires?

wiz5422
10-22-2018, 05:29 PM
23 in the class

4 DECís OCC
and a healthy mix of DFL/OFL/OFE

4 lost souls and 19 very poor decision makers.

dera
10-22-2018, 05:37 PM
4 lost souls and 19 very poor decision makers.

I'm not sure which ones are which...

Oregon Trail
10-22-2018, 05:40 PM
4 lost souls and 19 very poor decision makers.

care to elaborate?

wiz5422
10-22-2018, 06:58 PM
care to elaborate?

Just read some other threads on here and you will understand.


In this hiring environment........envoy?

Captainmarv
10-22-2018, 07:18 PM
Is envoy hiring non cadet FOs? I tried months ago but I got the thanks but no thanks

BigZ
10-22-2018, 07:20 PM
Is envoy hiring non cadet FOs? I tried months ago but I got the thanks but no thanks

Just starting to now. A friend applied in spring, got her interview invite today.

Captainmarv
10-22-2018, 07:22 PM
Just starting to now. A friend applied in spring, got her interview invite today.

Awesome, is she a "competitive candidate"? Cause that was envoys last reply to me. Sorry if this is the wrong thread to ask

BigZ
10-22-2018, 07:26 PM
Awesome, is she a "competitive candidate"? Cause that was envoys last reply to me.

Beats me, CFI/CFII/MEI with some hours from side flying in a Baron when she applied. She's over at another WO now anyways.

Captainmarv
10-22-2018, 07:36 PM
Beats me, CFI/CFII/MEI with some hours from side flying in a Baron when she applied. She's over at another WO now anyways.

Just re-read your post...applied in spring time?..they must be going through there pilot pool..haha

BigZ
10-22-2018, 07:56 PM
Just re-read your post...applied in spring time?..they must be going through there pilot pool..haha

I guess so. I was surprised she even heard from them half a year later

dera
10-22-2018, 08:03 PM
Our interview group (very small, 2 OTS guys and a few cadets) in September was told, that they will know their staffing requirements better end of this year, and will likely start interviewing and hiring more in November->

Captainmarv
10-22-2018, 08:16 PM
Our interview group (very small, 2 OTS guys and a few cadets) in September was told, that they will know their staffing requirements better end of this year, and will likely start interviewing and hiring more in November->

Awesome thanks for the reply!, I'll keep updating my application for now.

dera
10-22-2018, 08:52 PM
Awesome thanks for the reply!, I'll keep updating my application for now.

They told us they were still very selective because of the large pool and all the cadets in the pipeline.

I got the "see ya later" email in July when I applied, and then the interview invitation in September after reapplying. I had a few hundred hours more TPIC in September which might have put me over the interview threshold.

Houpilot2001
10-22-2018, 11:29 PM
They told us they were still very selective because of the large pool and all the cadets in the pipeline.

I got the "see ya later" email in July when I applied, and then the interview invitation in September after reapplying. I had a few hundred hours more TPIC in September which might have put me over the interview threshold.

Why do you want to come here? Honest question. So many other options out there.

Houpilot2001
10-22-2018, 11:30 PM
Awesome thanks for the reply!, I'll keep updating my application for now.

Same question. Why?

dera
10-22-2018, 11:54 PM
Why do you want to come here? Honest question. So many other options out there.

Because for me, it's the best regional.
I got CJOs from the usual suspects, but Envoy was nr#1 for me.

Oregon Trail
10-23-2018, 04:30 AM
Just read some other threads on here and you will understand.


In this hiring environment........envoy?

Direct entry captain, 5300TT over 1000 turbine PIC.

Getting no bites on applications to majors
Terrible schedule on the 135 side
Work rules?.. only rule is 14hr duty and 10 rest
Job security? 2 of 4 planes gone in a month unannounced

Aircraft owner asked why we only fly 500-800 hrs a year when the truck drivers at his company do 2000.

BJgj4700
10-23-2018, 12:53 PM
23 in the class

4 decís occ
and a healthy mix of dfl/ofl/ofe

dfl/ofl = fo 175?

dera
10-23-2018, 12:55 PM
dfl/ofl = fo 175?

Yes.

D = DFW, O = ORD, N = NYC
F = FO, C = Captain
L = 175, E = 145, C = CRJ.

So for example, OCC is ORD, Captain, CRJ. DCL would be DFW Captain 175, and so on.

wiz5422
10-23-2018, 01:07 PM
Direct entry captain, 5300TT over 1000 turbine PIC.

Getting no bites on applications to majors
Terrible schedule on the 135 side
Work rules?.. only rule is 14hr duty and 10 rest
Job security? 2 of 4 planes gone in a month unannounced

Aircraft owner asked why we only fly 500-800 hrs a year when the truck drivers at his company do 2000.

Endeavor pays more and treats you better. plus you will be in the same bases NYC.

dera
10-23-2018, 01:15 PM
Endeavor pays more and treats you better. plus you will be in the same bases NYC.

How's the flow going at EDV?

Captainmarv
10-23-2018, 01:21 PM
Same question. Why?

I have a friend that works at envoy, he loves it there, of course theirs always a downside to any regional, he recommends me to go there and I believe it is a good regional. I'm not into the flow kool aid, ofcourse I can always apply to any other major on the long run but why not have the flow as a back up?.

ItnStln
10-23-2018, 02:40 PM
3, 5, 8, 11, 32, 35.

Thanks, Iíll play those numbers.

CaptJackSparrow
10-23-2018, 02:41 PM
I have a friend that works at envoy, he loves it there, of course theirs always a downside to any regional, he recommends me to go there and I believe it is a good regional. I'm not into the flow kool aid, ofcourse I can always apply to any other major on the long run but why not have the flow as a back up?.

The time to get hired here in the sweet spot has come and gone. I have a good QOL here and really canít complain besides the pay issue and toxic environment passed down by management. However with that said I donít recommend this place to any of my friends looking at regionals. In my opinion, youíre simply setting yourself up for failure and leaving quite a bit of money on the table in doing so. And if you do come here and then decide to leave, keep in mind you might fly 150 hours in your first year. That alone is a complete waste of time and makes it even more difficult for your career progression. And if you commute then I definitely would cross envoy off the list.

SilentLurker
10-23-2018, 02:43 PM
I have a friend that works at envoy, he loves it there, of course theirs always a downside to any regional, he recommends me to go there and I believe it is a good regional. I'm not into the flow kool aid, ofcourse I can always apply to any other major on the long run but why not have the flow as a back up?.


Is there a bonus associated with this ďfriendĒ recruiting you?

Haha! So much Iím tempted to say but will not.

flysooner9
10-23-2018, 02:43 PM
Endeavor pays more and treats you better. plus you will be in the same bases NYC.

No DEC hires and obviously DECís arenít getting stuck in NYC at Envoy.

Captainmarv
10-23-2018, 03:27 PM
Is there a bonus associated with this ďfriendĒ recruiting you?

Haha! So much Iím tempted to say but will not.

No he offered to give me the bonus, his a good friend of mine. Worked at envoy for 5 years moving to AA soon. I understand the complaints of how crappy management is and scheduling a holes and so on, he let's me know bout this he doesnt sugar coat anything, but if you hate being there why stay?, I understand that maybe you have family and living at base, but why not trade the your seniority for a MUCH better regional for example EDV?. There must be a reason people stay in a toxic environment if that's what envoy is, other than seniority and living in base. And you can say what you need to say, I'll gladly reply, with no ill intent.

wiz5422
10-23-2018, 04:16 PM
How's the flow going at EDV?

Let me know how that flow works out for him hired today.

Oregon Trail
10-23-2018, 05:01 PM
Endeavor pays more and treats you better. plus you will be in the same bases NYC.

Endeavor has Direct Entry Captain? or need 1000hrs at company first?

dera
10-23-2018, 05:26 PM
Let me know how that flow works out for him hired today.

Works pretty well. Might be 6-8 years, but for some, that's worth more than the pay difference between Endeavor and Envoy, which is peanuts in the long run.

wiz5422
10-24-2018, 12:02 AM
Works pretty well. Might be 6-8 years, but for some, that's worth more than the pay difference between Endeavor and Envoy, which is peanuts in the long run.

We will see how the flow is doing in 6 to 8 years.....some people are going to be very disappointed.

180tillLIMMA
11-05-2018, 05:56 AM
Any word on todayís drop?

DanRoman
11-05-2018, 06:53 AM
Todayís class:
5 DEC: OCE
10 OFL/DFL
9 OFE

Cyio
11-05-2018, 07:19 AM
No he offered to give me the bonus, his a good friend of mine. Worked at envoy for 5 years moving to AA soon. I understand the complaints of how crappy management is and scheduling a holes and so on, he let's me know bout this he doesnt sugar coat anything, but if you hate being there why stay?, I understand that maybe you have family and living at base, but why not trade the your seniority for a MUCH better regional for example EDV?. There must be a reason people stay in a toxic environment if that's what envoy is, other than seniority and living in base. And you can say what you need to say, I'll gladly reply, with no ill intent.

You clearly dont know how valuable seniority and living in base is. In time you will if you dont have either. Commuting for this company is bad, reserve is bad, and both are down right hellish if you dont have the seniority to improve them.

Dont get me wrong, high seniority reserve here is a piece of cake, but see above.

use2fly
11-06-2018, 07:00 AM
You clearly dont know how valuable seniority and living in base is. In time you will if you dont have either. Commuting for this company sucks, reserve sucks, and both are down right hellish even if you have the seniority you think you need to improve them.

Dont get me wrong, high seniority reserve here isn't as bad, but see above.

FIFY

filler

Varsity
11-06-2018, 07:44 AM
Todayís class:
5 DEC: OCE
10 OFL/DFL
9 OFE

man, ouch.! :(

NoValueAviator
11-06-2018, 07:48 AM
I doubt they'll ever offer NY in class to anyone again until the hotel LOA is gone.

justfun
11-07-2018, 07:41 AM
for a none Envoy pilot, actually mainline AA, can you decode this class drop please?

Thanks

MD-11Loader
11-07-2018, 08:40 AM
for a none Envoy pilot, actually mainline AA, can you decode this class drop please?

Thanks

5 OCE DCE = Direct entry captain CRJ ORD

10 OFL/DFL = first officer 175 ORD/DFW

9 OFE = first officer 145 ORD

Naviator
11-07-2018, 08:52 AM
5 OCE DCE = Direct entry captain CRJ ORD


Try again

5 DEC OCE = Direct entry captain 145 ORD

in2deep
11-07-2018, 08:53 AM
5 OCE DCE = Direct entry captain CRJ ORD

10 OFL/DFL = first officer 175 ORD/DFW

9 OFE = first officer 145 ORD

Nah,

OCE = Ohare Captain ERJ (145)
DCE = Dallas ď ď
OFL= Ohare FO 175
and so forth

MD-11Loader
11-07-2018, 09:55 AM
Try again

5 DEC OCE = Direct entry captain 145 ORD

Typing and walking will cause errors.

Cyio
11-07-2018, 10:10 AM
Typing and walking will cause errors.

Scum. Filler

CrowneVic
11-08-2018, 03:36 PM
for a none Envoy pilot, actually mainline AA, can you decode this class drop please?

Thanks

Nobody bit. Will decode for a rec letter. Come on, guys!

NoValueAviator
11-09-2018, 02:32 AM
Envoy new hire award codes

First letter BASE:
D= Dallas
O = OíHare
N = New York
M = Miami

Second letter SEAT:
F = FO
C = Captain

Third letter TYPE:
C = CRJ
E = 140/145
L = 175

justfun
11-09-2018, 11:58 AM
thanks for the clarification.

My son is part of the pipeline program. What are the odds that he could get DFW or MIA right out of training?

MD-11Loader
11-09-2018, 12:05 PM
thanks for the clarification.

My son is part of the pipeline program. What are the odds that he could get DFW or MIA right out of training?

DFW 175 is very possible.

NoValueAviator
11-09-2018, 07:26 PM
Miami impossible, DFW very good chance. Most cadets get 175 slots and thatís instant DFW. Wrong jet and itís 2+ years to hold a line there though. Definitely wonít get stuck on the CRJ as a cadet so thatís lucky.

acam
11-13-2018, 12:09 AM
How likely is it that a non-cadet FO gets CRJ in a class over the course of next couple of months?

Jamesthunder
11-13-2018, 12:28 AM
How likely is it that a non-cadet FO gets CRJ in a class over the course of next couple of months?

Low.

However, we have no idea what classes are going to look like. The recruiting department might know, but they'd likely keep it under wraps to prevent folks from shopping classes to get their needs instead of what the company needs.

btrb2000
11-13-2018, 09:58 PM
Realistically how soon could a new hire that receives ORD 145 transition to DFW 145? tia

NoValueAviator
11-14-2018, 03:46 AM
For me it took 9 months to be able to hold DFW on the 145, but some recent hires were awarded it in training (under 1 month). The capricious and random nature of our fleet planning dept makes this kind of thing very unpredictable.

Cyio
11-14-2018, 12:16 PM
For me it took 9 months to be able to hold DFW on the 145, but some recent hires were awarded it in training (under 1 month). The capricious and random nature of our fleet planning dept makes this kind of thing very unpredictable.

Thats a huge understatement lol. Like this last upgrade class had ZERO OCL upgrades on it, even though they knew they would be getting another 20 planes.

Its very bizarre how they do things but hey, its their company not mine.

FlyingDawgg
11-15-2018, 06:11 AM
My friend at Envoy got put on the CRJ and only has flown 100 hours in 9 months. In that 9 months, he's been reserve and has moved from New York to Chicago. Why would you want the CRJ, I thought Envoy was getting rid of them.


How likely is it that a non-cadet FO gets CRJ in a class over the course of next couple of months?

Pedro4President
11-15-2018, 04:05 PM
Thats a huge understatement lol. Like this last upgrade class had ZERO OCL upgrades on it, even though they knew they would be getting another 20 planes.

Its very bizarre how they do things but hey, its their company not mine.

Thats not shocking seeing as they backfilled the vacancy. The next big wave of flow through is out of the 175 mainly in DFW.

Iflythe72
11-15-2018, 04:39 PM
My friend at Envoy got put on the CRJ and only has flown 100 hours in 9 months. In that 9 months, he's been reserve and has moved from New York to Chicago. Why would you want the CRJ, I thought Envoy was getting rid of them.

Iím on the 145 and have less than 150 itís been 10 months at envoy.

dera
11-15-2018, 04:51 PM
Iím on the 145 and have less than 150 itís been 10 months at envoy.

Have you been actively avoiding flying then?
Shouldn't you hold a line easily at 10 months?

BigZ
11-15-2018, 04:57 PM
Have you been actively avoiding flying then?
Shouldn't you hold a line easily at 10 months?

Depends on base.
ORD, DFW, MIA the answer to that is "No" to the best of my knowledge.

NoValueAviator
11-15-2018, 05:15 PM
No lines under 12 months except in NY on the 145 and we never fly on reserve.

I have about 140 hours in 11 mos, and I have been doing all kinds of stuff to get more hours besides staying in NY which I obviously should have done.

highfarfast
11-15-2018, 05:49 PM
I've talked to a lot of FOs bidding back to NY just for that reason.

Iflythe72
11-15-2018, 08:08 PM
Have you been actively avoiding flying then?
Shouldn't you hold a line easily at 10 months?

No Iím not avoiding flying. Some months on reserve you touch the plane only a handful of times.

Pedro4President
11-16-2018, 01:04 AM
Have you been actively avoiding flying then?
Shouldn't you hold a line easily at 10 months?

Anyone that was hired in November 2017 give or take a month could easily have less than 200 hours of flight time. They had 2 reserve pilots for every line pilot in ORD for months. They nearly had 200 reserve pilots in ORD and only about 90-100 lines. Guys we're having trouble consolidating their 100 hours after IOE. They sat for 6-10 weeks without flying at all. This likely won't happen going forward but it did happen and is still negatively affecting our pilots. It is most negatively impacting our DFW pilot group.

Cyio
11-16-2018, 05:01 AM
Anyone that was hired in November 2017 give or take a month could easily have less than 200 hours of flight time. They had 2 reserve pilots for every line pilot in ORD for months. They nearly had 200 reserve pilots in ORD and only about 90-100 lines. Guys we're having trouble consolidating their 100 hours after IOE. They sat for 6-10 weeks without flying at all. This likely won't happen going forward but it did happen and is still negatively affecting our pilots. It is most negatively impacting our DFW pilot group.

It blows my mind how short sided management can be when it comes to things like this. The only thing I can think of is that they wanted to get as big a chunk of the hiring craze to front load their operation. There is simply no other need to carry that many in reserve.

meanwhile, the CA 175 reserve list in ORD goes to 0 most days, lol.

Pedro4President
11-17-2018, 05:23 AM
It blows my mind how short sided management can be when it comes to things like this. The only thing I can think of is that they wanted to get as big a chunk of the hiring craze to front load their operation. There is simply no other need to carry that many in reserve.

meanwhile, the CA 175 reserve list in ORD goes to 0 most days, lol.

I'm not sure how much we can put on Envoy management vs AA planning. Envoy definitely earns its fair share at times. I could of told you six months ago the CRJ CAs were going to be hurting this fall just by looking at the amount of flows.

180tillLIMMA
11-19-2018, 03:57 AM
What is todayís breakdown?

DanRoman
11-19-2018, 06:41 AM
What is todayís breakdown?


2 DEC OCC
6 OFE
12 OFL/DFL


If you donít know what those acryonms mean then read more of this thread for the answer.

Cyio
11-19-2018, 09:41 AM
2 DEC OCC
6 OFE
12 OFL/DFL


If you donít know what those acryonms mean then read more of this thread for the answer.

Interesting how much the DECS have come down over the last 6 months. Also kinda surprised they went to the CRJ in ORD. Did we just flow some off that fleet?

Bruno82
11-19-2018, 10:11 AM
Interesting how much the DECS have come down over the last 6 months. Also kinda surprised they went to the CRJ in ORD. Did we just flow some off that fleet?



I wonder if itís the inability to hire or lack of need for DECs.

I wouldnít think the idea of coming to a disappearing fleet would be attractive for a DEC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BigZ
11-19-2018, 10:18 AM
Interesting how much the DECS have come down over the last 6 months. Also kinda surprised they went to the CRJ in ORD. Did we just flow some off that fleet?

Something like a half of the seniority list within half a year

havick206
11-19-2018, 08:08 PM
Interesting how much the DECS have come down over the last 6 months. Also kinda surprised they went to the CRJ in ORD. Did we just flow some off that fleet?

This was always going to happen. The CA shortage was last summer which is why they hired as many DECís 12 months ago as they could. It was a stop gap until the wave of mid 2016 hires onwards hit their upgrade hours.

Voski
11-20-2018, 07:28 AM
This was always going to happen. The CA shortage was last summer which is why they hired as many DECís 12 months ago as they could. It was a stop gap until the wave of mid 2016 hires onwards hit their upgrade hours.

With all the upgrades, should reserve time on the 145 go down next year?

havick206
11-20-2018, 07:42 AM
With all the upgrades, should reserve time on the 145 go down next year?

In which seat?

Hard to say, depends on how much flying shifts around from fleet to fleet

Voski
11-20-2018, 08:00 AM
In which seat?

Hard to say, depends on how much flying shifts around from fleet to fleet

Right seat. Seems like the 145 has 10 months of reserve with minimal flying to be had right now.

Cyio
11-20-2018, 09:44 AM
Right seat. Seems like the 145 has 10 months of reserve with minimal flying to be had right now.

It really all depends on if those FO's that had to take the forced upgrade in the first quarter decide they want to go back to training or not. They upgraded like 100 or pilots to the 145 if I remember correctly so that will be a big pile to move around in order to bring reserve down.

bgrace6
11-20-2018, 10:18 AM
How much extra flying can realistically be picked up as a first year FO?

BigZ
11-20-2018, 10:23 AM
How much extra flying can realistically be picked up as a first year FO?

Really depends on the amount of open time available, your relative seniority in seat/base, as well as how proactive you are.

NoValueAviator
11-20-2018, 10:28 AM
I have never been awarded an open trip during reserve proffering, and I have never not proffered for every open trip that ends w/in my reserve footprint. 10 months.

Sitting in base trying to pick up OT on days off may be easier.

UncreativeUser
11-21-2018, 12:17 AM
So reserve time on the OFL slot should be relatively short? (3 months or so)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cyio
11-21-2018, 09:20 AM
So reserve time on the OFL slot should be relatively short? (3 months or so)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The top of the list right now, taking out the two that are senior and will be upgrading shortly, is a 2074 seniority number with the bottom being a 2390.

How that plays out in terms of timeframe I am unsure, however things are moving pretty quick around ORD so you might not be far off.

UncreativeUser
11-21-2018, 02:09 PM
The top of the list right now, taking out the two that are senior and will be upgrading shortly, is a 2074 seniority number with the bottom being a 2390.



How that plays out in terms of timeframe I am unsure, however things are moving pretty quick around ORD so you might not be far off.



Thanks for the input, much appreciated!

Butitie
11-21-2018, 10:46 PM
I started the end of May and got 175 ORD. I could have held a composite in Nov. i bid reserve instead to get Thanksgiving off. Just found out I got Christmas off too. I cant complain.

Cujo665
11-24-2018, 08:31 AM
Have you been actively avoiding flying then?
Shouldn't you hold a line easily at 10 months?

See

(Filler)....

Pedro4President
11-24-2018, 10:49 AM
How much extra flying can realistically be picked up as a first year FO?

8-30 hours per month is a reasonable range.

Cyio
11-25-2018, 03:56 AM
8-30 hours per month is a reasonable range.

30 being the very high end of reasonable. I think most FO's, depending on base of course, can easily pick up 10-15 hours if they try. However, with some hard work, trip trading, asking for peoples trips and getting lucky that number can go up.

Pedro4President
11-25-2018, 04:14 AM
30 being the very high end of reasonable. I think most FO's, depending on base of course, can easily pick up 10-15 hours if they try. However, with some hard work, trip trading, asking for peoples trips and getting lucky that number can go up.

Well it's not too hard to be honest if the situation comes up. There are numerous times the first seven days Are scheduled off. Pick up a good 20+ hour four day plus add some turns here or there on days off and at the start or end of sequence and 30 is doable. Now when we are looking at months with hardly any OT you may be lucky to get 5-10 hours of OT.

It all depends on your seniority too. Junior guys would have a much harder time picking up good OT.

The original response said "it depends" which is absolutely correct but kinda vague and wasn't help to the question. Pretty sure we all know "it depends" can be the answer for almost every question people ask on here.

pitchattitude
11-25-2018, 04:37 AM
Seniority is a HUGE factor, as is whether or not you live in base. Too junior to hold a line AND commute? It is going to be difficult AND painful to pick up more than one or two trips, so 5 hours unless you are willing to completely throw away what ever life you have. And even then sometimes the OT just isnít there.

Which plane and base also can make a difference but what is better one month will likely change, so canít really say which one is best overall.

Cyio
11-25-2018, 01:57 PM
Well it's not too hard to be honest if the situation comes up. There are numerous times the first seven days Are scheduled off. Pick up a good 20+ hour four day plus add some turns here or there on days off and at the start or end of sequence and 30 is doable. Now when we are looking at months with hardly any OT you may be lucky to get 5-10 hours of OT.

It all depends on your seniority too. Junior guys would have a much harder time picking up good OT.

The original response said "it depends" which is absolutely correct but kinda vague and wasn't help to the question. Pretty sure we all know "it depends" can be the answer for almost every question people ask on here.
My response was for people fairly junior since I would assume this problem is for them, as senior FOís can fly as little or as much as they want.

Standbyone
11-26-2018, 04:44 AM
Anyone have the latest new hire base assignments and equipment?

pitchattitude
11-26-2018, 05:34 AM
Anyone have the latest new hire base assignments and equipment?
Did you scroll up?

Standbyone
11-26-2018, 05:40 AM
I read the last last posted on November 19th but wasnít sure if there was another class since. Have DECís been assigned ERJís recently? I keep reading theyíre mostly assigned CRJís and my goal is to make it down to MIA. Thanks.

Ijustlikeflying
11-26-2018, 06:07 AM
I read the last last posted on November 19th but wasnít sure if there was another class since. Have DECís been assigned ERJís recently? I keep reading theyíre mostly assigned CRJís and my goal is to make it down to MIA. Thanks.

Donít take the direct entry captain bate. That ship has sailed.

NoValueAviator
11-26-2018, 08:15 AM
DECs are not seat locked on equipment.

Standbyone
11-26-2018, 10:13 AM
Didnít know DECs arenít seat locked. Very helpful, thank you.

dera
11-26-2018, 12:51 PM
I read the last last posted on November 19th but wasnít sure if there was another class since. Have DECís been assigned ERJís recently? I keep reading theyíre mostly assigned CRJís and my goal is to make it down to MIA. Thanks.

Next class is Dec 3rd.

havick206
11-26-2018, 03:25 PM
I read the last last posted on November 19th but wasnít sure if there was another class since. Have DECís been assigned ERJís recently? I keep reading theyíre mostly assigned CRJís and my goal is to make it down to MIA. Thanks.

Last vacancy bid some of the DECís that prvoilsy held MIA were bumped out by senior pilots being displaced to CA.

Cyio
11-26-2018, 04:51 PM
Last vacancy bid some of the DECís that prvoilsy held MIA were bumped out by senior pilots being displaced to CA.
An event that is very likely to repeat itself system wide for awhile.

havick206
11-26-2018, 05:04 PM
An event that is very likely to repeat itself system wide for awhile.

Thatís my point. Thereís some good things here at Envoy, and also depending on your timing bad experiences. Pay rates aside.

Standbyone
11-26-2018, 05:15 PM
Makes sense, Iíll try not to get my hopes up when I get my base or line, Iím sure Iíll keep getting knocked right back for the first two years or more years till all the FOís pass me.

highfarfast
11-26-2018, 06:04 PM
Makes sense, Iíll try not to get my hopes up when I get my base or line, Iím sure Iíll keep getting knocked right back for the first two years or more years till all the FOís pass me.

As hard as Iíve been on the rosie story line for the DECs, I do think the displaced out of base thing due to forced FO upgrades is close to ending. Thatíll only continue while they are displacing FOs to captain. At some point theyíll no longer need to displace and FOs will have to vacancny bid. When that happens, youíll be able to hold on to your base once you get it.

The LOA that allows the company to give flying to FOs on reserve expires end of Feb. I think thatís as good a mark as any for when the company thinks that forced upgrades will be necessary. Of course that came out last summer and theyíre notorously bad at staff planning so take that for what itís worth.

Thatís not to say youíll get MIA anytime soon (may still be a couple years out). Just that once you do, I think youíll keep it.

NoValueAviator
11-27-2018, 06:13 AM
I do think MIA will be easier to hold in the future on the CA side. Tons of senior FO's in MIA are commuting in from SJU and just want QOL.

havick206
11-27-2018, 09:12 AM
I do think MIA will be easier to hold in the future on the CA side. Tons of senior FO's in MIA are commuting in from SJU and just want QOL.

Donít know about that. Quite a few CA lineholder at other bases waiting until they can solidly hold a line in Mia then bid there

SilentLurker
11-27-2018, 09:29 AM
I do think MIA will be easier to hold in the future on the CA side. Tons of senior FO's in MIA are commuting in from SJU and just want QOL.



This.... Many FOs from 2016/2017 are taking the E175 upgrade even if they live in FL verses the E145 MIA base. Same for some SJU folks. Silly, It is, but QOL on equipment vs base is a factor for some. They have to commute in the day prior regardless on CA RSV.
Standbyone I think there will be opportunities for DECs to find their way to MIA eventually, even sooner rather than later. Iíve seen guys on paper take an upgrade displacement to MCE, but then leave MCE for OCL/DCL, even DCE. This industry is always changing, consume all recommendations on here with caution, even the one Iím giving you. What appears true today, could change in about 3months. Then you will either look back wishing you did, wishing you didnít, or just indifferent about your choice.

Standbyone
11-27-2018, 11:08 AM
All the information has been very helpful and I definitely agree with the last post. I started my career just months before 9/11, continued through the financial meltdown and finally through a regional meltdown and a divorce. Iíll let you know if it was the right decision when I retire! Thanks again for all the info.

smtx123
12-03-2018, 04:09 AM
9-DFL
3-OFL
7-OCC
3 cadets

Voski
12-03-2018, 04:20 AM
Is Envoy running any more classes in December or is this the last one?

Cyio
12-03-2018, 04:29 AM
Is Envoy running any more classes in December or is this the last one?

There will most likely be one more, sometime around the 19th or 20th.

Cyio
12-03-2018, 04:30 AM
9-DFL
3-OFL
7-OCC
3 cadets

Good god, more CRJ Capains. I am assuming those where all the DEC's.

dera
12-03-2018, 05:10 AM
Oh yessss :D

Pedro4President
12-03-2018, 05:13 AM
Good god, more CRJ Capains. I am assuming those where all the DEC's.

Have you seen how many are flowing??

This is likely more about attrition than delaying the transfer. However I haven't heard anything lately about the CRJs going.

pitchattitude
12-03-2018, 05:29 AM
Have you seen how many are flowing??

This is likely more about attrition than delaying the transfer. However I haven't heard anything lately about the CRJs going.
RW was in to speak at the training center the other day. He said the latest info they had was still what was put out in his ďHarmonizationĒ letter a few months ago: continue to transfer one a month with a lull in the spring and summer to have about a half dozen at the end of the year. From his stand point, he wants them gone ASAP but AAG wants Envoy to keep flying them until theyíre down to the last airframe.

smtx123
12-03-2018, 05:37 AM
Is Envoy running any more classes in December or is this the last one?
Havenít heard anything about a second date in December, but I think there is 3 classes in January.

pitchattitude
12-03-2018, 05:47 AM
Is Envoy running any more classes in December or is this the last one?
There will most likely be one more, sometime around the 19th or 20th.
Havenít heard anything about a second date in December, but I think there is 3 classes in January.

Should be on the 17th. Every other Monday, unless there really is three in January, but if it starts the 17th Indoc could still finish before the holidays and send people home.

They started a class Monday before Thanksgiving and brought in BBQ the day of.

But I understand there will be more of a lull in the training center for Christmas and New Years.

wiz5422
12-03-2018, 07:42 AM
Heard from good source.

Emb145/CRJ classes every two weeks

E175 classes every week starting Janurary.

MD-11Loader
12-03-2018, 08:03 AM
Heard from good source.

E175 classes every week starting Janurary.

Ramping up for LAX. :p

bigtime209
12-03-2018, 08:14 AM
Ramping up for LAX. :p

I lol'd...

pitchattitude
12-03-2018, 10:46 AM
Ramping up for LAX. :p
2020 is slowly approaching...

CaseTractor
12-03-2018, 12:32 PM
Heard from good source.

Emb145/CRJ classes every two weeks

E175 classes every week starting Janurary.

How would that work to prevent people from cherry picking classes and only being available for the 175 classes?

I suppose NH class could get start every week, then bid for slots, and 175 guys would start immediately while everyone else would start on the "off" weeks... Not sure how feasible one class a week would be with Sims, Instructors, and IOE though. How "good" was this source?

pitchattitude
12-03-2018, 02:19 PM
Heard from good source.

Emb145/CRJ classes every two weeks

E175 classes every week starting Janurary.

How would that work to prevent people from cherry picking classes and only being available for the 175 classes?

I suppose NH class could get start every week, then bid for slots, and 175 guys would start immediately while everyone else would start on the "off" weeks... Not sure how feasible one class a week would be with Sims, Instructors, and IOE though. How "good" was this source?

Fake News.

Not going to happen. They donít have the capacity. They are adding two more seats to each 175 class. They canít magically DOUBLE training by having a class every week. They are struggling to do what they are on the 175 side.

wiz5422
12-03-2018, 05:11 PM
Fake News.

Not going to happen. They donít have the capacity. They are adding two more seats to each 175 class. They canít magically DOUBLE training by having a class every week. They are struggling to do what they are on the 175 side.

We shall see come January...........

pitchattitude
12-03-2018, 05:52 PM
We shall see come January...........
You are right about one thing, we shall see.

Having a class every week would just mean more work teaching Indoc. Envoy wonít hire more than 500 FOs next year. Roughly 40 a month or 20 per class every other week. Not that what Envoy does makes sense, but the math just doesnít bear that out.

NoValueAviator
12-04-2018, 02:52 AM
Well, I know what Envoy isn't going to do. They aren't going to displace any of their hundreds of surplus of 145/CRJ pilots to staff the new jets. They know offering 175 slots in class is a powerful recruiting tool, and aside from a minority who came specifically for Miami, every FO is praying for a 175 slot.

pitchattitude
12-04-2018, 03:23 AM
Well, I know what Envoy isn't going to do. They aren't going to displace any of their hundreds of surplus of 145/CRJ pilots to staff the new jets. They know offering 175 slots in class is a powerful recruiting tool, and aside from a minority who came specifically for Miami, every FO is praying for a 175 slot.

Nah, I think those guys are hoping for 175s in MIA.

Pedro4President
12-04-2018, 03:54 AM
Well, I know what Envoy isn't going to do. They aren't going to displace any of their hundreds of surplus of 145/CRJ pilots to staff the new jets. They know offering 175 slots in class is a powerful recruiting tool, and aside from a minority who came specifically for Miami, every FO is praying for a 175 slot.

There is no way of getting around it. They will have to run a displacement at some point. People's feeling are going to get hurt and it's going to suck for some and be good for others.

Cyio
12-04-2018, 04:49 AM
There is no way of getting around it. They will have to run a displacement at some point. People's feeling are going to get hurt and it's going to suck for some and be good for others.

I don't know, recruitment still seems strong, or at least as strong as they want it to be right now. Lots of FO's getting ready to upgrade off the 175, thus allowing more seats to open up.

My thought is, they may boost a bonus or work an improved contract rather than displace anyone. That is super costly and disruptive to their narrative in the publics eye, although this is Envoy so....

I do agree however, that we are going to have a huge surplus of 175 FO seats open that will need filled. Maybe there is some truth to the class every week rumor on it.

MD-11Loader
12-04-2018, 05:59 AM
I don't know, recruitment still seems strong, or at least as strong as they want it to be right now. Lots of FO's getting ready to upgrade off the 175, thus allowing more seats to open up.

My thought is, they may boost a bonus or work an improved contract rather than displace anyone. That is super costly and disruptive to their narrative in the publics eye, although this is Envoy so....

I do agree however, that we are going to have a huge surplus of 175 FO seats open that will need filled. Maybe there is some truth to the class every week rumor on it.

Supposedly another CPT room being added for the heavy drivers as well as the schedules being expanded.

NoValueAviator
12-04-2018, 08:01 AM
If they do displace, guys will be going from year 2 of reserve to 18 days off in Dallas in the summer.

Pedro4President
12-04-2018, 08:16 AM
I don't know, recruitment still seems strong, or at least as strong as they want it to be right now. Lots of FO's getting ready to upgrade off the 175, thus allowing more seats to open up.

My thought is, they may boost a bonus or work an improved contract rather than displace anyone. That is super costly and disruptive to their narrative in the publics eye, although this is Envoy so....

I do agree however, that we are going to have a huge surplus of 175 FO seats open that will need filled. Maybe there is some truth to the class every week rumor on it.

When the CRJ leave a displacement has to happen. No away around it. It has to happen. There's no way to get around it. The union and company cant agree on anything that would change the fact that CRJ pilots will get displaced. They will be able to hold what they can per their seniority. The only question is how will the company issue the accompanying vacancy.

It happened when the Saab, ATR left and it happens when a base closes. It's going to happen.

The Company could possibly offer more money to displaced pilots to those that bid to stay in the same equipment to cut down on training cycles.

Cyio
12-04-2018, 08:56 AM
When the CRJ leave a displacement has to happen. No away around it. It has to happen. There's no way to get around it. The union and company cant agree on anything that would change the fact that CRJ pilots will get displaced. They will be able to hold what they can per their seniority. The only question is how will the company issue the accompanying vacancy.

It happened when the Saab, ATR left and it happens when a base closes. It's going to happen.

The Company could possibly offer more money to displaced pilots to those that bid to stay in the same equipment to cut down on training cycles.
Ok fair enough in regards to displacements happening but I have a feeling that the senior Captains are mostly flowing or switching to another fleet prior to the closing of the fleet. That leaves us the DEC captains they are placing, which should they get displaced will not effect many as they are not senior enough. Most likely end up on something in LGA.

This leaves the senior FOís, again most I think are smart enough to proffer into something else and get off that system altogether. Hopefully the company wonít place new FOís on the CRJ anymore and that problem slowly takes care of itself.

So to sum up, if displacements do occur I think they will be minor in terms of impacting all but the DECís.

pitchattitude
12-04-2018, 09:07 AM
As Pedro says, there will come a time for displacements as the CRJ winds down, but it is not going to be as drastic as everyone thinks.

First, except the first three, the most senior FOs on the CRJ have only been at Envoy for less than two years and several that started with zero time towards captain are already upgrading, so they are spending less time NOT flying than say, a DFW 145 FO. And their relative seniority is better than anyone in DFW, 145 or 175 and ORD 175. Coming off the CRJ is not going to give any FO a Golden Ticket. They will lose relative seniority or at best stay the same.

Second, when it does finally happen, the fleet will be down to so few with such a small staff, there wonít be a huge number to displace off of it. Envoy is paying now through continual replacements on the CRJ, but by slowly drawing the fleet down it will actually help out in the end.

pitchattitude
12-04-2018, 09:09 AM
Ok fair enough in regards to displacements happening but I have a feeling that the senior Captains are mostly flowing or switching to another fleet prior to the closing of the fleet. That leaves us the DEC captains they are placing, which should they get displaced will not effect many as they are not senior enough. Most likely end up on something in LGA.

This leaves the senior FOís, again most I think are smart enough to proffer into something else and get off that system altogether. Hopefully the company wonít place new FOís on the CRJ anymore and that problem slowly takes care of itself.

So to sum up, if displacements do occur I think they will be minor in terms of impacting all but the DECís.
So yes, if you come to Envoy as a DEC, life will continue to suck.

NoValueAviator
12-04-2018, 09:12 AM
On the DEC front, many have gotten lines this month OCE.

in2deep
12-04-2018, 12:59 PM
I don't know, recruitment still seems strong, or at least as strong as they want it to be right now. Lots of FO's getting ready to upgrade off the 175, thus allowing more seats to open up.

My thought is, they may boost a bonus or work an improved contract rather than displace anyone. That is super costly and disruptive to their narrative in the publics eye, although this is Envoy so....

I do agree however, that we are going to have a huge surplus of 175 FO seats open that will need filled. Maybe there is some truth to the class every week rumor on it.

Donít kid yourself.

Theyíre going to over staff the thing just like every other fleet.

Voski
12-05-2018, 09:10 AM
From Envoy Pilot Recruitingís Facebook page today:

ď#OfficeViews In the coming months, Envoy will begin nearly doubling its Embraer 175 fleet from 44 to 84 aircraft! Pilots, that means more seats, more classes, more opportunity for you to begin your airline career. Apply today! envoyair.com/pilotsĒ

I guess thatís confirmation of more classes starting in January.

pitchattitude
12-05-2018, 10:29 AM
From Envoy Pilot Recruitingís Facebook page today:

ď#OfficeViews In the coming months, Envoy will begin nearly doubling its Embraer 175 fleet from 44 to 84 aircraft! Pilots, that means more seats, more classes, more opportunity for you to begin your airline career. Apply today! envoyair.com/pilotsĒ

I guess thatís confirmation of more classes starting in January.

They also say $38 an hour is industry leading. Doesnít make it true.

Yes, Iím sure we will have more classes in January. More than twice a week, I doubt it. The training fairyís wand hasnít produced any more instructors or sims. Will they ramp up, sure, but donít expect a magical doubling any time soon.

dera
12-05-2018, 02:07 PM
We shall see come January...........

Your source was pretty accurate :)

inky13
12-05-2018, 03:23 PM
Your source was pretty accurate :)


Don't confuse specific aircraft class start dates with new hire class start dates.


New hire classes (i.e. Indoc) will continue to start every two weeks.


E145 and E175 aircraft class start dates (i.e. first day of ground school/SPC) will be every week.


C700 will remain every two weeks.


Weekly starts for aircraft training increases resource efficiency.

SilentLurker
12-05-2018, 07:43 PM
They also say $38 an hour is industry leading. Doesnít make it true.



Yes, Iím sure we will have more classes in.



This... I hate lies, and for over 1yr we have been behind ďINDUSTRY LEADINGĒ 1st yr FO pay, and for many many years behind senior CA pay. So itís way beyond (in my opinion false).

Reality and ethical marketing is important. What is happening is purposeful, not negligence of reality. Take notice!

Have any of you folks considering Envoy looked at the growing pay differences between a 2-20yr Envoy Captain verse a 2-20yr CA at another regional carrier? How cheap are we? Very. So much so, the company(s) want to ďgrow us.Ē

Pay attention all you NHís & potential NHís all what many of us in property asks. If you do come here, donít come here complaining about pay, QOL, or flow. You must look in the mirror if you wonder why itís not happening come 2019. We will gladly provide you a mirror. We all see your hire date & realize you should not be complaining about industry lagging pay & QOL for both NH FOís and CAís 2-20+yrs vs other regional carriers.

I fear the fact that ďEagle StrongĒ guys glowing & flowing will severely encourage company personnel infractions once the PP eligible flows and guys who experienced the BK are gone. I am nervous for our company (the people & pilots), and our career longevity. 2023+ is a long way away!

pitchattitude
12-05-2018, 08:14 PM
Don't confuse specific aircraft class start dates with new hire class start dates.


New hire classes (i.e. Indoc) will continue to start every two weeks.


E145 and E175 aircraft class start dates (i.e. first day of ground school/SPC) will be every week.


C700 will remain every two weeks.


Weekly starts for aircraft training increases resource efficiency.
This is a more likely scenario. But there are still some resource constraints. When I went through they were scheduling the sims to the max. So much so that it was actually counter productive. There was NO budge room. You miss a sim for ANY reason, sick or misconnect instructor, weather or maintenance shutdown and it could take several weeks to get that one period rescheduled.

One instructor leaving triggers several training events.

Maybe they will get better at it by decreasing the number of 145 NHs, but as long as they have the churn of forced upgrade displacements, it is going to be hard to increase throughput.

wiz5422
12-06-2018, 04:49 AM
This is a more likely scenario. But there are still some resource constraints. When I went through they were scheduling the sims to the max. So much so that it was actually counter productive. There was NO budge room. You miss a sim for ANY reason, sick or misconnect instructor, weather or maintenance shutdown and it could take several weeks to get that one period rescheduled.

One instructor leaving triggers several training events.

Maybe they will get better at it by decreasing the number of 145 NHs, but as long as they have the churn of forced upgrade displacements, it is going to be hard to increase throughput.


Better believe it because it is happening. Told you a few days and you called it "FAKE NEWS."

TeeRainPULup
12-06-2018, 06:11 AM
This... I hate lies, and for over 1yr we have been behind ďINDUSTRY LEADINGĒ 1st yr FO pay, and for many many years behind senior CA pay. So itís way beyond (in my opinion false).

Reality and ethical marketing is important. What is happening is purposeful, not negligence of reality. Take notice!

Have any of you folks considering Envoy looked at the growing pay differences between a 2-20yr Envoy Captain verse a 2-20yr CA at another regional carrier? How cheap are we? Very. So much so, the company(s) want to ďgrow us.Ē

Pay attention all you NHís & potential NHís all what many of us in property asks. If you do come here, donít come here complaining about pay, QOL, or flow. You must look in the mirror if you wonder why itís not happening come 2019. We will gladly provide you a mirror. We all see your hire date & realize you should not be complaining about industry lagging pay & QOL for both NH FOís and CAís 2-20+yrs vs other regional carriers.

I fear the fact that ďEagle StrongĒ guys glowing & flowing will severely encourage company personnel infractions once the PP eligible flows and guys who experienced the BK are gone. I am nervous for our company (the people & pilots), and our career longevity. 2023+ is a long way away!

Also, any new hire coming here for flow, remember unless your a protected pilot flow is NOT guaranteed! If you have two miss assignments within two years of your flow date they can withhold you from flowing to American. So please donít come here thinking you will flow just because you got hired at Envoy. The only viable reason to come here is to be DFW based cause as said above pay ainít gonna change anytime soon.

TransWorld
12-06-2018, 06:29 AM
FYI - AA single class for Dec is planned for 75.

Total for 2018 will be 940. Plan at the beginning of the year was 900.

Last year, 645 pilots were hired.

It is rumored 2019ís plan is for 1,000 pilots to be hired.

moon
12-06-2018, 06:34 AM
Also, any new hire coming here for flow, remember unless your a protected pilot flow is NOT guaranteed! If you have two miss assignments within two years of your flow date they can withhold you from flowing to American. So please donít come here thinking you will flow just because you got hired at Envoy. The only viable reason to come here is to be DFW based cause as said above pay ainít gonna change anytime soon.

Pretry much any discipline within 2 years can prevent flow if it results in a step letter. Uniform violations, calling in sick 4 times a year, etc.

egl2fdx
12-06-2018, 07:52 AM
FYI - AA single class for Dec is planned for 75.

Total for 2018 will be 940. Plan at the beginning of the year was 900.

Last year, 645 pilots were hired.

It is rumored 2019ís plan is for 1,000 pilots to be hired.

Thatís great! 500 Envoy pilots to AA via flow!

wait..........

Bigpimppilot
12-06-2018, 08:36 AM
Is that how it works? I thought it was 33% for some time

Cyio
12-06-2018, 01:43 PM
Also, any new hire coming here for flow, remember unless your a protected pilot flow is NOT guaranteed! If you have two miss assignments within two years of your flow date they can withhold you from flowing to American. So please donít come here thinking you will flow just because you got hired at Envoy. The only viable reason to come here is to be DFW based cause as said above pay ainít gonna change anytime soon.
Thatís a pretty dangerous game for them to play though. I mean you are correct but I would be surprised if they used it in all but the most grievous cases.

I mean think about it. They tell a guy he canít flow because his kids got sick a couple too many times his last year here and now you expect him to provide top notch service?

Nah, not going to happen. The company wants us to flow, itís in their best interest in all aspects. Keeps pay down, helps recruitment, keeps the pilot group junior and easier to control etc. just because they donít flow at the rate we think they should doesnít mean they donít want us to flow.

Pedro4President
12-06-2018, 04:28 PM
Thatís a pretty dangerous game for them to play though. I mean you are correct but I would be surprised if they used it in all but the most grievous cases.

I mean think about it. They tell a guy he canít flow because his kids got sick a couple too many times his last year here and now you expect him to provide top notch service?

Nah, not going to happen. The company wants us to flow, itís in their best interest in all aspects. Keeps pay down, helps recruitment, keeps the pilot group junior and easier to control etc. just because they donít flow at the rate we think they should doesnít mean they donít want us to flow.

But it doesn't mean there won't be the sacrificial lamb here and there when those guys call out sick a few weeks before flowing.



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