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View Full Version : Frontier LAS to Mexico


INXS
08-28-2018, 04:32 PM
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/tourism/frontier-airlines-to-launch-flights-from-las-vegas-to-mexico/


I like BIG Bus
08-29-2018, 05:49 AM
I wouldn’t read too much into it. When they can’t cancel enough pilot vacations to staff the airline, these routes will be taken over by Volaris. A mexican ULCC also owned by Indigo, which we code share with. It’s an international, code sharing whipsaw, yee haw!

FML

KC135
08-29-2018, 06:55 AM
Opps, looks like you meant to post this in the F9 section...


butthert
08-29-2018, 07:34 AM
Opps, looks like you meant to post this in the F9 section...

Good point. F9's growing dumpster fire would never impinge upon Allegiant's operation or the entire airline industry for that matter. Someone notify a moderator and have this post moved back over to F9... :D

BlueHenFR8Dawg
08-29-2018, 12:33 PM
Does Frontier have the 186-seat configuration like ours?

Jetspeed
08-30-2018, 07:40 AM
Does Frontier have the 186-seat configuration like ours?

Yes we do.

hyde
08-30-2018, 09:02 PM
When a few more tourists get caught up in some cartel stuff and people realize how dangerous Mexico actually is it will be like a lot of other places that are awesome but not worth the risk. Not to mention tainted alcohol. Tourism in Mexico is dying

disco inferno
09-01-2018, 10:14 AM
It would be nice of Allegiant management had a little more vision than to fly only north and south domestically. I see no reason not to fly to places other than Florida and the desert. I also wonder how long it will be before they realize we will be better off with new planes than broken down piles of crap from the middle east? They acknowledged in the town hall that ordering new Airbus now is a lost cause since the soonest they can get any is 6 years down the road.


Our management refuses to allow this airline to grow out of its mom and pop shell. Now that staffing isn't the issue that it was a few years ago, their ingenious plan is to allow things to revert back to staffing levels that required other airlines to do our flights. This idea is bound to blow up in their faces in the not too distant future. I think we are the only Airbus operator in North America that isn't hiring.

dutch rudder
09-01-2018, 11:22 AM
It would be nice of Allegiant management had a little more vision than to fly only north and south domestically. I see no reason not to fly to places other than Florida and the desert. I also wonder how long it will be before they realize we will be better off with new planes than broken down piles of crap from the middle east? They acknowledged in the town hall that ordering new Airbus now is a lost cause since the soonest they can get any is 6 years down the road.


Our management refuses to allow this airline to grow out of its mom and pop shell. Now that staffing isn't the issue that it was a few years ago, their ingenious plan is to allow things to revert back to staffing levels that required other airlines to do our flights. This idea is bound to blow up in their faces in the not too distant future. I think we are the only Airbus operator in North America that isn't hiring.

:rolleyes:

labbats
09-01-2018, 11:42 AM
Usually not hiring is a prelude to being merged.

LoFly
09-01-2018, 12:04 PM
Usually not hiring is a prelude to being merged.

https://giphy.com/gifs/eye-roll-*****-please-Fjr6v88OPk7U4

disco inferno
09-01-2018, 12:36 PM
Usually not hiring is a prelude to being merged.
I seriously doubt we are about to be merged. If I were trapped near the bottom of our seniority list, I would seriously be trying to GTFO of here.

dutch rudder
09-01-2018, 12:54 PM
Usually not hiring is a prelude to being merged.

Or, simply just a product of the school house being full due to our accelerated airbus transition. We couldnít have new hire classes and transition all MD80 pilots by the end of this year.

CAirBear
09-01-2018, 02:58 PM
Or, simply just a product of the school house being full due to our accelerated airbus transition. We couldnít have new hire classes and transition all MD80 pilots by the end of this year.

Exactly people. Go talk to folks who instruct. I had one on the jumpseat yesterday. They are up to their ass right now. Our sim in FL appears to constantly breaking as well. Once the transition is complete, and we arenít hiring, I would say you can be concerned, but the last 3 town halls they have been pretty clear we are going to grow after this is done with.

disco inferno
09-01-2018, 03:07 PM
Exactly people. Go talk to folks who instruct. I had one on the jumpseat yesterday. They are up to their ass right now. Our sim in FL appears to constantly breaking as well. Once the transition is complete, and we arenít hiring, I would say you can be concerned, but the last 3 town halls they have been pretty clear we are going to grow after this is done with.
They were very clear on the last town hall that we had no plans to hire anytime soon. They want to reduce our pilot count per aircraft to 7.8 pilots per air frame if I recall correctly. The only growth I know of is more of the same; cornfield to Florida flying. I seriously doubt there are many more towns in BFE we can fly to. At some point we need to do something different. Frontier and Spirit are competing on a ton of our routes. We are a one trick pony. We really need to learn some new tricks.

CAirBear
09-01-2018, 05:29 PM
They were very clear on the last town hall that we had no plans to hire anytime soon. They want to reduce our pilot count per aircraft to 7.8 pilots per air frame if I recall correctly. The only growth I know of is more of the same; cornfield to Florida flying. I seriously doubt there are many more towns in BFE we can fly to. At some point we need to do something different. Frontier and Spirit are competing on a ton of our routes. We are a one trick pony. We really need to learn some new tricks.

Iíve been told by EN and more than a couple instructors thatís BS. Sure managements Wet dream is what they are saying, but they are planning growth and itís going to require more pilots. EN said that with the delay of the 3 Airbuses we didnít get, on time, earlier this summer, that it we wonít be single type until Jan/Feb of 2019. They were wanting a class this October, but after the delay he said it will be Q1 Ď19.

I doubt we hire every single month for years, like we were, but there will be some.

ecam
09-02-2018, 08:38 AM
Not hiring might be a prelude to a merger, with the transition being a perfect excuse. I wouldnít be surprised if they were shopping the airline around. MG ainít getting any younger and they have shown strong interest in moving in a different direction than the airline business like Sunseeker and the ďfun centersĒ.

The longer we continue to not hire, the more pilots go to other (better) carriers. G4 management isnít going to be able to sell pilots on coming here just to sleep in their own bed every night forever. Aside from that (day trips) we really donít have much to offer prospective pilots who will be able to pick and choose from multiple offers in just a few years. The date we are allegedly going to resume hiring keeps getting pushed back. I predict only a handful of classes starting in mid 2019. They are serious about reducing staffing levels and they are going to try until it fails. Again.

Disco hit the nail on the head about management needing to get more creative if they want to keep the place. Most of the ďgrowthĒ lately has been new routes between places we already serve, few new cities. This tells me we are reaching market saturation. The farm towns of the Midwest only support so many vacations, and the northern snowbirds only travel part of the year. We need to try new things. They keep making excuses and moving the goal posts on international flying. Meanwhile new ULCCs are forming in the US and Canada, and Frontier is expanding into Mexico along with with Volaris. We could do well in the Caribbean too if they would stop making excuses and get their act together. IMO their lack of progress in developing an Intl system signals something coming on the horizon as well. Itís a big long term investment they donít seem to want to make. But if we try to keep doing the same thing we have always done, new kids are going to come along and do it better.

There is a lot of false pride here. We are a small niche airline that mostly flies under the radar of other carriers. We fly older less reliable airplanes. We donít invest in customer service and in most places our minimum wage contract CSAs donít care one bit about our brand or taking care of our people. We have an extremely petty and adversarial management team who donít value our contribution and refuses to follow the contracts they signed, which causes flight crew to lack motivation. If they donít start fixing the problems here, attrition is going to pick back up and they wonít be able to replace people like a few years ago. Meanwhile the other airlines will keep chipping away at our ďuniqueĒ business model until we are irrelevant.

Maybe thatís why they are moving toward the resort business... maybe they just gave up.

disco inferno
09-02-2018, 10:30 AM
The silence from management in regards to any real plans for the future is deafening. The Sunseeker resort was an expensive unnecessary risk. If the economy dips into another 2008 like recession, they are screwed big time.



They really need to invest money into reservations and scheduling software. They need to get off their lazy unimaginative arses before they get them handed to them.

Flight Deck Ape
09-02-2018, 10:54 AM
I have been wondering if part of our problem at Allegiant in going international is that a majority of the airports we serve lack customs for entry back into the United States. I doubt one or two flights per week from XYZ midwest airport, for example, would be enough to justify the cost and expense of maintaining a CBP facility and resources. This leaves a few options to deal with the problem:

The first option is to make a stop at another airport that has a Customs facility (SFB for instance), process and clear everyone, then reboard the plane and continue to XYZ midwest airport. This would add expense and take extra time and resources as well as create other issues like crew duty concerns, etc.

The second option is to offer connecting flights through Allegiant hubs (LAS, SFB) on return international flights. Never say never but this is extremely unlikely to ever happen at G4. Too many new problems created.

The third option is to only offer international service to airports that have a US CBP Preclearance facility. Aside from Canada, I think for us that only leaves Bermuda, Bahamas, and Aruba. Although this severely limits our international destinations it at least makes a nonstop flight possible back to XYZ midwest airport.

The fourth option is to only sell and operate international flights from our mid-large size airports (LAX, LAS, IND, etc) that already have regular international flights and the facilities to handle them. While this is probably the easiest thing for us to do operationally, I dare say that most of these airports already have international flights operating to the places that we would want to fly to which means competition. It has been stated on the town halls on more than one occasion that ďthe best competition is no competitionĒ so itís difficult to say how financially successful we would be.

Along the lines of what ECAM said, why bother with the hassle of running a 121 carrier with all the regulation, oversight, maintenance problems, union contracts, etc. just to make a few extra bucks in ancillary sales over a two hour flight when you can have a captive audience and pick their pocket all week long at the resort that you own? Perhaps this is what JR has made MG realize. And maybe that is also why JB bailed to Sun Country and is aggressively expanding and turning it into a ULCC. Maybe he knows that the competition (G4) wonít be around much longer.

N1sync
09-02-2018, 11:08 AM
Usually not hiring is a prelude to being merged.

Jude, SY, and his new private equity pals are certainly interested

disco inferno
09-02-2018, 11:16 AM
Jude, SY, and his new private equity pals are certainly interested
Interested? Maybe. Could they afford us though? If so, would they pay it? We will see.

Super EZ E
09-02-2018, 11:41 AM
All you guys should be bailing out. The model is vacation travel on a super budget. It's worked for a long time. It's not a real "airline" with any degree of point to point operation. Frontier and Spirit are going to flood the markets you fly. Not to mention SWA's plan of 1000 aircraft. Get out while the getting is good!!!

KC135
09-02-2018, 12:00 PM
All you guys should be bailing out. The model is vacation travel on a super budget. It's worked for a long time. It's not a real "airline" with any degree of point to point operation. Frontier and Spirit are going to flood the markets you fly. Not to mention SWA's plan of 1000 aircraft. Get out while the getting is good!!!

Algt is among the top 5 most profitable airlines in the world even during an aggressive fleet transition. Seems pretty legit for a fake airline.

Source (https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2018/06/19/ultra-low-fare-airlines-are-among-most-profitable.html)

disco inferno
09-02-2018, 12:24 PM
Algt is among the top 5 most profitable airlines in the world even during an aggressive fleet transition. Seems pretty legit for a fake airline.

Source (https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2018/06/19/ultra-low-fare-airlines-are-among-most-profitable.html)
For now we are profitable. How long can we keep that up though? How many new cow towns are there left to fly to? Our competitors are already moving into our markets as well as growing there own. Maury just sits around with his "member" in our hands while our competition outgrows us. There is no plan beyond flying from BFE to Florida. At least not one that involves flying airplanes. They are trying to build condos FFS!

KC135
09-02-2018, 02:30 PM
Growth and profitability are not mutually exclusive. 75% of current routes have 0 competition and the ones that do are holding up just fine. The airline has grown 11% in ASM over the last year during a "slow" growth transition period. Wait until the transition is over before getting worried that growth is minimal. There is a major growth plan in place but the current airbus acquisitions and focus is almost all on the transition. The condo/hotel has not taken away any opportunities from growing the airline since the current bottleneck is in acquiring more airframes.

Super EZ E
09-02-2018, 05:02 PM
[QUOTE=KC135;2667025]Algt is among the top 5 most profitable airlines in the world even during an aggressive fleet transition. Seems pretty legit for a fake airline.

Cool, stick around and enjoy the ride. No one said fake airline. It's a travel agency with a 121 cert selling discount junkets every Monday Thursday. How many flights actually connect?? Cherry pick those markets!! Every ULCC will be right behind you to cherry pick them too. When the economy takes a crap those vacations travelers will disappear. Allegiant can park those old ass airframes and just cherry pick the good routes to Vegas and South Florida.

CAirBear
09-02-2018, 05:29 PM
[QUOTE=KC135;2667025]Algt is among the top 5 most profitable airlines in the world even during an aggressive fleet transition. Seems pretty legit for a fake airline.

Cool, stick around and enjoy the ride. No one said fake airline. It's a travel agency with a 121 cert selling discount junkets every Monday Thursday. How many flights actually connect?? Cherry pick those markets!! Every ULCC will be right behind you to cherry pick them too. When the economy takes a crap those vacations travelers will disappear. Allegiant can park those old ass airframes and just cherry pick the good routes to Vegas and South Florida.

For what itís worth, every single time Frontier announces tons of new routes out of Vegas (fill in the blank) doing service 2-3 days a week to a lot of our destinations, guess how long that lasts? I think they did my hometown of DSM for not even 1 month. Same happened to CID. We have a pretty damn loyal customer base (amazingly).

As for this joke of a resort. Letís recap whatís happened so far.

1. Was to require almost zero financing. The big hoop-lah was this place is unbelievable (North Am.
Largest swimming pool - omg) and we are selling nearly all the units pre construction and have the funds etc etc.

- - That did not at all happen. They are financing a significant amount now and worse (I donít have an exact number), but some of our aircraft are collateral. Outstanding.

2. The current land it is to be constructed on is garbage. The soil and area is NOT conducive to building the type of building/structure they have planned. Every contractor in FL has refused to build this (at least at the current site plan).

- - Guess what weíre doing? Weíve Supposedly found some contractor(a) from out of state, who most likely have no clue/experience building on what every reputable contractor in FL has deemed unsuitable.

3. The reputation of JR from people who worked with him in Vegas (in casino executive positions) isnít that great. Iíve heard it from enough people to think there is some truth to it. It hasnít just been one disgruntled type.


If we really wanted to get into the ďresort businessĒ this is a stupid way of doing it. There are countless failed or failing resorts you could have taken over at a discount. Now if you took over a delapitaded POS and turned it into the Taij Mahal and making money hand over first, awesome! Have at building your own. Youíve shown it can be done.

No one wants to see his fail and seriously jeopardize the airline and our careers, but this is incredibly stupid. The investors arenít thrilled as of late either.

I certainly hope this works. Itís quite the gamble.

KC135
09-02-2018, 05:53 PM
Cool, stick around and enjoy the ride. No one said fake airline. It's a travel agency with a 121 cert selling discount junkets every Monday Thursday. How many flights actually connect?? Cherry pick those markets!! Every ULCC will be right behind you to cherry pick them too. When the economy takes a crap those vacations travelers will disappear. Allegiant can park those old ass airframes and just cherry pick the good routes to Vegas and South Florida.

Where you not around during the last recession? G4 and WN were the only 2 US airlines to turn a profit throughout the recession. WN may or may not have had they not hedged their fuel.

INXS
09-02-2018, 05:54 PM
[QUOTE
Cool, stick around and enjoy the ride. No one said fake airline. It's a travel agency with a 121 cert selling discount junkets every Monday Thursday. How many flights actually connect?? Cherry pick those markets!! Every ULCC will be right behind you to cherry pick them too. When the economy takes a crap those vacations travelers will disappear. Allegiant can park those old ass airframes and just cherry pick the good routes to Vegas and South Florida.[/QUOTE]


Yawn...thanks for the great career advice. Although, wondering when Allegiant is going to fly South of the border as the topic has been discussed for years. Sounds like after the Bus transition is complete some growth out of LAS finally and possibly a few coastal tourist destinations in Mexico (i.e. no travel warnings).

BTW think ya got it backwards when it comes to a crappy economy. People will always buy their cigarettes, booze, and Allegiant tickets. The best thing this co does is fill their seats :cool:

InThisTogether
09-02-2018, 10:43 PM
[QUOTE=Super EZ E;2667158]

For what itís worth, every single time Frontier announces tons of new routes out of Vegas (fill in the blank) doing service 2-3 days a week to a lot of our destinations, guess how long that lasts? I think they did my hometown of DSM for not even 1 month. Same happened to CID. We have a pretty damn loyal customer base (amazingly).

As for this joke of a resort. Letís recap whatís happened so far.

1. Was to require almost zero financing. The big hoop-lah was this place is unbelievable (North Am.
Largest swimming pool - omg) and we are selling nearly all the units pre construction and have the funds etc etc.

- - That did not at all happen. They are financing a significant amount now and worse (I donít have an exact number), but some of our aircraft are collateral. Outstanding.

2. The current land it is to be constructed on is garbage. The soil and area is NOT conducive to building the type of building/structure they have planned. Every contractor in FL has refused to build this (at least at the current site plan).

- - Guess what weíre doing? Weíve Supposedly found some contractor(a) from out of state, who most likely have no clue/experience building on what every reputable contractor in FL has deemed unsuitable.

3. The reputation of JR from people who worked with him in Vegas (in casino executive positions) isnít that great. Iíve heard it from enough people to think there is some truth to it. It hasnít just been one disgruntled type.


If we really wanted to get into the ďresort businessĒ this is a stupid way of doing it. There are countless failed or failing resorts you could have taken over at a discount. Now if you took over a delapitaded POS and turned it into the Taij Mahal and making money hand over first, awesome! Have at building your own. Youíve shown it can be done.

No one wants to see his fail and seriously jeopardize the airline and our careers, but this is incredibly stupid. The investors arenít thrilled as of late either.

I certainly hope this works. Itís quite the gamble.

Working at Frontier, I completely agree. We just announced weíre flying from PHX to Grand Rapids (like you from AZA). But they forgot to mention we stopped flying from PHX to DTW, SEA, Houston, Portland, Cleveland, Cincinnati, San Francisco, Salt Lake, Atlanta, Nashville, etc. The list goes on and on. We constantly pull out of markets and are zero threat. I think Frontier just likes to stay in the headlines to hopefully get a buyer. Because this place is falling apart.

Desert Sky
09-03-2018, 01:44 AM
Growth and profitability are not mutually exclusive. 75% of current routes have 0 competition and the ones that do are holding up just fine. The airline has grown 11% in ASM over the last year during a "slow" growth transition period. Wait until the transition is over before getting worried that growth is minimal. There is a major growth plan in place but the current airbus acquisitions and focus is almost all on the transition. The condo/hotel has not taken away any opportunities from growing the airline since the current bottleneck is in acquiring more airframes.
BINGO! Disco_Inferno you need to read this post twice and calm down.

mountainflying
09-03-2018, 05:45 AM
I know...cracks me up when people think they know so much more than they do. Gtfo? Yeah ok...making a great living with good qol. Thereís much to be improved Iíll admit. Computer systems, schedules, airplanes, hiring etc. but hopefully thatís on the horizon. Go to any other airline thread and youíll here complaints as well. But Allegiant is making money no doubt. Not everyone wants to go to the big 3 or 4. In fact most people I fly with want to stay here and see this place succeed. Myself included.

wilco811
09-03-2018, 06:18 AM
The transition is going really well. We are only going to be delayed by one or two months from the completion target of the end of 2018. Itíll be interesting to see what happens next but finding and acquiring these fantastic used airplanes might be the big hurdle. Either way thereís lots of talk about future growth here. I wouldnít be telling people to GTFO at all.

disco inferno
09-03-2018, 07:32 AM
BINGO! Disco_Inferno you need to read this post twice and calm down.
I'm calm. I'm also pragmatic. We have been able to maintain steady growth and profitability in the past because we were a tiny airline. We've done an amazing job at picking small towns that the big guys ignore and making it work. We've been able to keep a steady flow cheap of aircraft because we only need an airframe here or there.

Since Allegiant started, we have grown from a couple of airplanes to almost 100. The number of small towns left to cherry pick are rapidly dwindling between our competition in the ULCC market and the introduction of basic economy fares from the legacies. Our business model is no longer off the radar of other airlines. We need to be bold and tap different markets if we are going to grow. The bigger we get, the harder it's going to be to find cheap used plans as we have in the past. Many of our "new" Airbus are already ratted out and in desperate need of replacement and we haven't even finished the transition due to lack of airframes. We aren't the only airline scouring the world for used Airbus. United is looking to scoop up a ton of used 319's and they aren't the only ones. Airbus has a backlog for new 320's of 6 years. Our management didn't have the foresight to make an order. They are always waiting until the last minute and scrambling.

I never suggested everyone working here should "GTFO". I did point out that our management has been vocal in their desire to shrink the pilot count per airframe way down to unsustainable levels. This entails not hiring until we hit their magical number. It has already been almost a year since our last new hire class and there is no scheduled date for the next class. If you were a young guy at the bottom of the seniority list with no hope of movement or upgrade for the foreseeable future, I would seriously be looking for an airline with more movement. I believe on one of the recent chief pilot hotlines that they stated we only have around 20 retirements in the next 5 years. That's not good if you are #895 on the list and maybe not in the base or seat you want. If you are in your 30's and in the top 200 numbers of the seniority list living where you want, it's a whole different company.

dutch rudder
09-03-2018, 11:38 AM
This thread is the worst ďjump to conclusions mat.Ē Iím pulling my hair out.

Not hiring means absolutely nothing more than the school house is full. Notice our proposed hiring coincides with last transition class.

We arenít running out of markets. Sure, our ďbread and butterĒ routes may become saturated at some point, but we are far from it. A quick glance at our route map shows the company is establishing itself on a diverse set of routes (not just north/south, desert/Florida, big to small, etc.) with intention to expand south of the border. This indicates management possesses a certain level of ďvision.Ē

The ratio of pilots per aircraft is completely arbitrary. Do you guys know why?

I think we all need to calm down a bit.

ecam
09-03-2018, 01:09 PM
All you guys should be bailing out. The model is vacation travel on a super budget. It's worked for a long time. It's not a real "airline" with any degree of point to point operation. Frontier and Spirit are going to flood the markets you fly. Not to mention SWA's plan of 1000 aircraft. Get out while the getting is good!!!

Cool, stick around and enjoy the ride. No one said fake airline. It's a travel agency with a 121 cert selling discount junkets every Monday Thursday. How many flights actually connect?? Cherry pick those markets!! Every ULCC will be right behind you to cherry pick them too. When the economy takes a crap those vacations travelers will disappear. Allegiant can park those old ass airframes and just cherry pick the good routes to Vegas and South Florida.
So says the prick that spent the last year trolling his own airline (spirit). Nobody in their right mind would leave this place for your dumpster fire, so save your keystrokes. At least our passengers bring suitcases, not garbage bags. Maybe you should be the one looking for a "real" job. MG may not respect his workers, but he knows how to make money, and we blew your trashy airline away last year in profits. So I doubt they need your advice on how to run an airline either.

ecam
09-03-2018, 01:33 PM
This thread is the worst ďjump to conclusions mat.Ē Iím pulling my hair out.

Not hiring means absolutely nothing more than the school house is full. Notice our proposed hiring coincides with last transition class.

We arenít running out of markets. Sure, our ďbread and butterĒ routes may become saturated at some point, but we are far from it. A quick glance at our route map shows the company is establishing itself on a diverse set of routes (not just north/south, desert/Florida, big to small, etc.) with intention to expand south of the border. This indicates management possesses a certain level of ďvision.Ē

The ratio of pilots per aircraft is completely arbitrary. Do you guys know why?

I think we all need to calm down a bit.

I don't think everyone needs to run for the hills either, and I doubt we are in any danger of folding. And I say that as someone who has several airlines collapse from under him in his career.

However, if i were one of the bottom 300 or so on this seniority list, I'd be trying pretty hard to get out to anywhere. We are in fact a stagnant airline. Those people were hired with a bunch of promises like base choices and fast upgrades, and it sounds like they were sold a bill of goods. I'm sure it's better than whatever regional airline they came from, but it's certainly not going to be like a few years ago when we were growing like crazy and upgrades were around a year or two. These people are realistically looking at 4 years with the company before first upgrade, and getting that award in OAK. PIT or PGD. Then another 4-5 years of reserve and involuntary TDY if they bid to a better base. The hiring boom hasn't even hit yet, and within the next 5 years, the big 3 will be scooping up all the pilots they can get. Where does that leave us?

Management's recent actions are incongruent with a group that wants to grow, or even stay in this business. They are suddenly making stupid and nonsensical investments, and whipping the employees for no particular reason other than them unionizing. People act like the transition is the most brilliant thing they ever did. Actually, it got to the point that the 80s were costing more than they made in terms of maintenance, fuel, and public perception. It's that simple. Also, nobody wants to buy an airline with a bunch of junk 80s on its certificate, but many may be interested in an all airbus fleet. You all can take my predictions for what they're worth, but I predict we will not be flying planes that say allegiant on the side within the next 5 years. I said this about this time last year, and a lot of what I said has already occurred, so i'll say it again. Hang on, It's going to be a wild ride.

Super EZ E
09-03-2018, 04:38 PM
So says the prick that spent the last year trolling his own airline (spirit). Nobody in their right mind would leave this place for your dumpster fire, so save your keystrokes. At least our passengers bring suitcases, not garbage bags. Maybe you should be the one looking for a "real" job. MG may not respect his workers, but he knows how to make money, and we blew your trashy airline away last year in profits. So I doubt they need your advice on how to run an airline either.

Nice 30 year old trash AA tossed out years ago. Nice 60 min story! I don't say this lightly. If I lived by and airport Allegiant flew into I'd move. You are clueless!!!!!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/allegiant-air-the-budget-airline-flying-under-the-radar/

INXS
09-03-2018, 04:56 PM
There's a turn in the sandbox!!!!!!!

INXS
09-03-2018, 07:37 PM
There's a turn in the sandbox!!!!!!!

turd turd turd
Lmao!!

Desert Sky
09-03-2018, 09:22 PM
I don't think everyone needs to run for the hills either, and I doubt we are in any danger of folding. And I say that as someone who has several airlines collapse from under him in his career.

However, if i were one of the bottom 300 or so on this seniority list, I'd be trying pretty hard to get out to anywhere. We are in fact a stagnant airline. Those people were hired with a bunch of promises like base choices and fast upgrades, and it sounds like they were sold a bill of goods. I'm sure it's better than whatever regional airline they came from, but it's certainly not going to be like a few years ago when we were growing like crazy and upgrades were around a year or two. These people are realistically looking at 4 years with the company before first upgrade, and getting that award in OAK. PIT or PGD. Then another 4-5 years of reserve and involuntary TDY if they bid to a better base. The hiring boom hasn't even hit yet, and within the next 5 years, the big 3 will be scooping up all the pilots they can get. Where does that leave us?

Management's recent actions are incongruent with a group that wants to grow, or even stay in this business. They are suddenly making stupid and nonsensical investments, and whipping the employees for no particular reason other than them unionizing. People act like the transition is the most brilliant thing they ever did. Actually, it got to the point that the 80s were costing more than they made in terms of maintenance, fuel, and public perception. It's that simple. Also, nobody wants to buy an airline with a bunch of junk 80s on its certificate, but many may be interested in an all airbus fleet. You all can take my predictions for what they're worth, but I predict we will not be flying planes that say allegiant on the side within the next 5 years. I said this about this time last year, and a lot of what I said has already occurred, so i'll say it again. Hang on, It's going to be a wild ride.
In the next five years the total aviation landscape will look completely different. I have no doubt that there is a high risk that G4 will be merged or acquired by another airline. Consolidation in the ULCC/LCC community will have to happen in order to compete with the big 4 domestically, at some point.



Our buyout/merger may be a golden ticket or a royal cluster f*ck. No one knows the future.

grnclvrs
09-04-2018, 05:24 AM
Spirit just announced a big expansion out of MCO

Guatemala City:Begins Oct. 4; two weekly flights

Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic: Begins Oct. 4; four flights a week through Nov. 7, then daily service

Aguadilla, Puerto Rico: Begins Oct. 4; daily service

Panama City, Panama: Begins Oct. 4; four weekly flights

San Pedro Sula, Honduras: Begins Oct. 5; two flights a week

San Jose, Costa Rica: Begins Oct. 5; four flights a week through Nov. 7, then daily service

San Salvador, El Salvador: Begins Oct. 6; two flights a week

Bogota, Colombia: Begins Nov. 8; daily service

St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands: Begins Nov. 8; three weekly flights

Medellin, Colombia: Begins Nov. 9; one flight a week

Cartagena, Colombia: Begins Nov. 10; two weekly flights

Asheville, North Carolina (previously announced): Begins Sept. 7; three weekly flights through Nov. 7, then four

Greensboro, North Carolina (previously announced): Begins Sept. 7; three weekly flights through Nov. 7, then four

Myrtle Beach, South Carolina (previously announced): Begins Nov. 10; two weekly flights

9easy
09-04-2018, 08:15 PM
Who cares. This is the Allegiant board, not the Spirit board. United just announced SFO-AMS and is discontinuing SFO-YYJ, should we post that too?

Spirit just announced a big expansion out of MCO

Guatemala City:Begins Oct. 4; two weekly flights

Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic: Begins Oct. 4; four flights a week through Nov. 7, then daily service

Aguadilla, Puerto Rico: Begins Oct. 4; daily service

Panama City, Panama: Begins Oct. 4; four weekly flights

San Pedro Sula, Honduras: Begins Oct. 5; two flights a week

San Jose, Costa Rica: Begins Oct. 5; four flights a week through Nov. 7, then daily service

San Salvador, El Salvador: Begins Oct. 6; two flights a week

Bogota, Colombia: Begins Nov. 8; daily service

St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands: Begins Nov. 8; three weekly flights

Medellin, Colombia: Begins Nov. 9; one flight a week
] 10; two weekly flights

INXS
09-04-2018, 10:11 PM
Who cares. This is the Allegiant board, not the Spirit board. United just announced SFO-AMS and is discontinuing SFO-YYJ, should we post that too?

Calm down. Yes, this is not the Spirit board. So why would we care about some silly United route swap? Btw keeping an eye on other ULCC/LCC is prudent.

grnclvrs
09-06-2018, 05:42 AM
Who cares. This is the Allegiant board, not the Spirit board. United just announced SFO-AMS and is discontinuing SFO-YYJ, should we post that too?

Whoa, might be time to cycle off the 'roids for a while. The point is that another ULCC just beat us to our expansion destinations. I don't think AMS is one of them.

labbats
09-06-2018, 09:49 AM
Surprised no one has mentioned Swoop Airlines. They effectively just blocked our expansion to Canada. Destinations are our bases.

CaptainRoryNot
09-06-2018, 09:50 AM
New routes tomorrow...

DENpilot
09-06-2018, 04:10 PM
New routes tomorrow...

For who? So far all 3 ULCCs are being dicussed here....:D

CAirBear
09-06-2018, 04:16 PM
Surprised no one has mentioned Swoop Airlines. They effectively just blocked our expansion to Canada. Destinations are our bases.

Please explain. Iím pretty sure anyone can fly to CA granted they pay whatever is needed etc. First Iíve heard of Swoop.

labbats
09-06-2018, 04:58 PM
Please explain. Iím pretty sure anyone can fly to CA granted they pay whatever is needed etc. First Iíve heard of Swoop.

They fly from Mesa Gateway, Las Vegas, Sanford, St Petersburg and Ft Lauderdale to Edmonton, Toronto and Vancouver.

Our model is to avoid competition. This WestJet subsidiary is stopping that plan in Canada. Basically supporting the initial theory of this thread that we are late to the party.

9easy
09-06-2018, 09:15 PM
Whoa, might be time to cycle off the 'roids for a while. The point is that another ULCC just beat us to our expansion destinations. I don't think AMS is one of them.

Allegiant doesn't fly to MCO, doesn't fly international (except charters.) We won't be flying international for a long long time, until they decide to give in and pay for a GDS system or merge with another airline. At least SFB has customs but there is no customs terminal and it would take who knows how long and a millions of dollars to renovate the terminal. PIE, IWA, and PGD are even more impractical. LAS has no customs at T1, would need to park at T4 at our non-existant gates there and then repo the plane to T1. There's a reason Spirit doesn't do international flights to Vegas. Same at LAX. Anyone who thinks allegiant is going to become a big player on international flights anytime soon is delusional.

ecam
09-07-2018, 06:52 AM
Allegiant doesn't fly international, but a lot of our business comes from Canadians crossing over in places like BLI, OGG, IAG and PLB. Especially during snowbird season. Canadian ULCCs flying direct to our bases, and Canadians avoiding the hassle of driving across the US border mostly eliminates their need for us. Allegiant would have been wise to find a way to go to Canada (primarily buying or developing a currency exchange since all transactions must be in $CAD), but they didn't bother and we have missed the boat. It's not to late for Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean yet, but management doesn't have their eye on the ball. They are focused on building a billion dollar Vegas style resort in a swamp surrounded by trailer parks. That should tell anyone thinking of coming here everything they need to know. I don't agree with Rory the troll that the sky is falling, but things definitely are unsustainable here, and I think we are seeing the end of our current business model. So we will adapt or go out of business in the next few years. It seems management is signaling little interest in running an airline right now. So plan accordingly if you have more than a few years left.

9easy
09-10-2018, 09:41 PM
Actually the business model is working fine as always, as the earnings show. However it does seem the corporate side is becoming less airline focused and I think the next quarterly earnings investor call will be a good window on what the future holds.