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View Full Version : ABX washing out new hires..


mukalel
08-29-2018, 11:33 AM
Abx let a guy go during ioe! Still no contract, no growth, 22 years to upgrade!

All buyers beware.. Its a dead end..


point432
08-29-2018, 12:06 PM
Abx let a guy go during ioe! Still no contract, no growth, 22 years to upgrade!



All buyers beware.. Its a dead end..



During IOE? What happened?


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GeelErmo
08-29-2018, 12:33 PM
Ive heard he was/is bad, really bad. So many chances had been given.


mukalel
08-29-2018, 12:36 PM
Ive heard he was/is bad, really bad. So many chances had been given.

Tells you the quality of candidates that abx is willing to hire now.. desperation must have kicked in.. quality people wont come till a quality contract has been attained..

Kougarok
08-29-2018, 01:02 PM
Tells you the quality of candidates that abx is willing to hire now.. desperation must have kicked in.. quality people wont come till a quality contract has been attained..

This!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

motorclutch
08-29-2018, 01:07 PM
50 plus hours of OE. The guy was s tool.

point432
08-29-2018, 02:04 PM
Perhaps mgmt has reached past the bottom of the barrel...through a hole grabbing nothing but air, hopes, and dreams.


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JackStraw
08-29-2018, 02:20 PM
Must be solid recruits.

JackStraw
08-29-2018, 02:21 PM
Must be solid recruits. At least you haven’t let one cr*sh a 767 like Atlas did.

Venkman
08-29-2018, 03:06 PM
Flying well, and not crashing, are two very different things.

Kougarok
08-29-2018, 05:43 PM
Flying well, and not crashing, are two very different things.

Yeah no they’re not...

Kougarok
08-29-2018, 06:48 PM
Yeah no they’re not...

Can I say “You ****ing retard!”

Kougarok
08-29-2018, 06:48 PM
Can I say “You ****ing retard!”

Oops I guess not.

No Land 3
08-30-2018, 12:01 AM
****, the only time you get to show off your flying skills with a heavy is the landing, or the sim.

Venkman
08-30-2018, 02:41 AM
Yeah no they’re not...

You're free to choose your own standards I guess. I've known plenty of lousy pilots who didn't crash. That doesn't make them good pilots.

captfred
08-30-2018, 03:38 AM
Must be solid recruits. At least you haven’t let one cr*sh a 767 like Atlas did.

What happened?

kevbo
08-30-2018, 04:06 AM
You're free to choose your own standards I guess. I've known plenty of lousy pilots who didn't crash. That doesn't make them good pilots.

It's like that with every job. Poor outcomes are rare so notoriety is based on other subjectives. He failed because his captain didn't like him and for no other reason.

tomgoodman
08-30-2018, 04:42 AM
You're free to choose your own standards I guess. I've known plenty of lousy pilots who didn't crash. That doesn't make them good pilots.

What about a pilot who crashes regularly, but skillfully? :D

hubbs
08-30-2018, 05:16 AM
What about a pilot who crashes regularly, but skillfully? :D

Consistency is important

johnny150
08-30-2018, 07:35 AM
No wonder ABX can’t t retain qualified pilots, they won’t even give the crews Known Crew Member.


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Reactivity
08-30-2018, 07:42 AM
No wonder ABX cat retain qualified pilots, they won’t even give the crews Known Crew Member.


Not sure what that has to do with unqualified pilots washing out of training.

But I submit to you that if you're making your career decisions based on KCM, your priorities are screwed up. That's just me, though.

Excargodog
08-30-2018, 09:11 AM
Flying well, and not crashing, are two very different things.

I would certainly argue that not crashing was an essential subset of flying well...:cool:

wjcandee
08-30-2018, 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by JackStraw
Must be solid recruits. At least you haven’t let one cr*sh a 767 like Atlas did.

What happened?

Description of incident here. Synopsis: 767-300 carrying US Troops from overseas landed hard at PSM in calm, clear weather and creased the fuselage. Some say it just needs a BIG roll of speed tape. ;)
Accident: Atlas B763 at Portsmouth on Jul 27th 2018, hard landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=4bbab491)

One rumor was that the FO, on his IOE, performed the landing. Not sure that was ever confirmed.

Birdsmash
08-30-2018, 01:18 PM
Originally Posted by JackStraw
Must be solid recruits. At least you haven’t let one cr*sh a 767 like Atlas did.



Description of incident here. Synopsis: 767-300 carrying US Troops from overseas landed hard at PSM in calm, clear weather and creased the fuselage. Some say it just needs a BIG roll of speed tape. ;)
Accident: Atlas B763 at Portsmouth on Jul 27th 2018, hard landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=4bbab491)

One rumor was that the FO, on his IOE, performed the landing. Not sure that was ever confirmed.

That has happened several times before to 763’s. Later production tails had additional fuselage stringers added to prevent that exact problem. Here’s a good video showing what leads to the creasing.
https://youtu.be/Jw-aUVa3a0U

nitefr8dog
08-30-2018, 01:26 PM
No wonder ABX can’t t retain qualified pilots, they won’t even give the crews Known Crew Member.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro You think that is why pilots are quitting?

johnny150
08-30-2018, 02:02 PM
You think that is why pilots are quitting?



According to some that have quit yes, it Is a small piece of the pie but people have mentioned that among a long list of other items...


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badflaps
08-30-2018, 02:13 PM
That has happened several times before to 763’s. Later production tails had additional fuselage stringers added to prevent that exact problem. Here’s a good video showing what leads to the creasing.
https://youtu.be/Jw-aUVa3a0U
For sure the tail quits flying about 85kts.

Reactivity
08-30-2018, 02:21 PM
According to some that have quit yes, it Is a small piece of the pie but people have mentioned that among a long list of other items...


If they had a long list, then KCM didn't make a difference one way or the other. It's not the thing that would have kept them at ABX, and it's not the thing that would have driven them away if everything else had been perfect. It's just another thing to complain about on the way out the door.

JackStraw
08-30-2018, 02:23 PM
For sure the tail quits flying about 85kts.

One of Boeing’s biggest flaws.

nitefr8dog
08-30-2018, 03:11 PM
If they had a long list, then KCM didn't make a difference one way or the other. It's not the thing that would have kept them at ABX, and it's not the thing that would have driven them away if everything else had been perfect. It's just another thing to complain about on the way out the door.
Exactly............

Whitesnake
08-30-2018, 08:50 PM
Ive heard he was/is bad, really bad. So many chances had been given.

We attracted many more, quality people before David Soaper came and alienated everyone, and then drove the newly hired pilots away.
All this hiring and expense is due to DS, and as the gene pool dries up we end up hiring an occasional guy like the one who left during his IOE.

People won’t be gifted. And they shouldn’t be.

Soap, take note; you’re the one who said you’d have no problem getting people to come here. How’s that working
out for you ?
This is on you.

Shabby
08-30-2018, 09:35 PM
It's like that with every job. Poor outcomes are rare so notoriety is based on other subjectives. He failed because his captain didn't like him and for no other reason.

If you think that he failed only because his captain didn’t like him, then you are very wrong!
This guy got more chances than anyone would give a new hire. He just couldn’t take advantage of it. Shows nothing else then how desperate they are right now. They are rarely getting anyone with PIC time. Almost all new hires are low hour pilots. The only pic time they have is in a cessna 172.
Everyone that applies gets an interview call and a job offer!
And it seems like People who are accepting the offer are going to abx just to get the 767 rating and some experience on it to move on to their next airline. Giving abx 6 months to 1 year to see if the management changes for the better, and they get a better contract with a pay raise, if not, they won’t stay.

motorclutch
08-31-2018, 04:07 AM
Management is too stupid to admit this fact. As ATSG continues to sing the same BS line to investors during quarterly financial reports....Could we be getting close to that fine edge of an SEC violation?

TeamSasquatch
08-31-2018, 07:55 AM
The only pic time they have is in a cessna 172.



After reading this, Students at UND and ERAU are now applying by the thousands. :D

nitefr8dog
08-31-2018, 08:39 AM
We attracted many more, quality people before David Soaper came and alienated everyone, and then drove the newly hired pilots away.
All this hiring and expense is due to DS, and as the gene pool dries up we end up hiring an occasional guy like the one who left during his IOE.

People won’t be gifted. And they shouldn’t be.

Soap, take note; you’re the one who said you’d have no problem getting people to come here. How’s that working
out for you ?
This is on you.
You say that as if Soaper actual reads APC and more importantly.....he could comprehend what you are saying. You are giving him way to much credit....

cargowarrior
08-31-2018, 08:56 AM
You say that as if Soaper actual reads APC and more importantly.....he could comprehend what you are saying. You are giving him way to much credit....

Oh I’m sure the Soap reads these post! Fuels the hate inside him. 😡

nitefr8dog
08-31-2018, 11:10 AM
Oh I’m sure the Soap reads these post! Fuels the hate inside him. 😡

The hate inside is because he knows what a mess he made at ABX .....and he will be back painting houses again to fund his retirement....

Globe Master
08-31-2018, 12:01 PM
The hate inside is because he knows what a mess he made at ABX .....and he will be back painting houses again to fund his retirement....

1. Soap made a ton of money at Southern

2. He doesn’t give a rat fk about anything pilots say. He will continue to put dollars in his pocket. Laughing at all the banter on APC

On a side note, wait the thread is about new hires....

We’ve washed out several at Southern during OE, welcome to the party. 😀

nitefr8dog
08-31-2018, 12:29 PM
1. Soap made a ton of money at Southern

2. He doesn’t give a rat fk about anything pilots say. He will continue to put dollars in his pocket. Laughing at all the banter on APC

On a side note, wait the thread is about new hires....

We’ve washed out several at Southern during OE, welcome to the party. 😀
He was painting houses with his son in law when ATSG hired him....ABX has washed their share out of OE over the years...just not after 50 hrs! He!! The DC8 had a 50% washout rate for initial for yrs and standards was proud of it....the 767 is different...you don't have to have much experience to make it through that program or flying skills....welcome to the
party!

tiredofjrm
08-31-2018, 01:51 PM
You guys got it all wrong! Soaper is doing what he got hired to do. Drag out negotiations. Once/if we get a TA, you can bet your ass there wont be retro pay. So for every day he drags this out, ATSG saves a pretty penny. I'm hearing rumors of 5-10% of base pay. F...Dat!!

I want to see full retro + 2%. That is the only way to stop this BS.

I understand that it rewards the *****s. I don't care! I have never picked up an opentime trip. Nor will I ever. This is about making sure the next contract gets signed when its due.

nitefr8dog
08-31-2018, 02:22 PM
You guys got it all wrong! Soaper is doing what he got hired to do. Drag out negotiations. Once/if we get a TA, you can bet your ass there wont be retro pay. So for every day he drags this out, ATSG saves a pretty penny. I'm hearing rumors of 5-10% of base pay. F...Dat!!
Soaper is not capable of negotiating a new contract or run ABX....that is why he was hired. Out of work and cheap/available. The byproduct of those qualities has been dragging

I want to see full retro + 2%. That is the only way to stop this BS.

I understand that it rewards the *****s. I don't care! I have never picked up an opentime trip. Nor will I ever. This is about making sure the next contract gets signed when its due.
I agree Soaper is doing exactly what they hired him for....he is not capable of negotiating a contract or run an airline. By default those qualities result in the contact being dragged out and business going away. He was out of work (fired) and available cheap. Perfect empty suit.

Industry Strnd
09-05-2018, 10:13 AM
Do you think it's possible the president ran the Manger of training off so he could put someone in place that will have pilots fail check rides making it harder for them to get out of ABX?

If I was on the outside looking in I consider going elsewhere!

motorclutch
09-05-2018, 02:19 PM
Soapy has no control of our pilot training. He wouldn’t know how to bust anyone.

Almost There
09-06-2018, 07:22 AM
I agree Soaper is doing exactly what they hired him for....he is not capable of negotiating a contract or run an airline. By default those qualities result in the contact being dragged out and business going away. He was out of work (fired) and available cheap. Perfect empty suit.

If someone cannot recognize this, they haven't been in aviation long enough.

ABX got the "disappearing airplane blues".

Kifaru
09-08-2018, 10:05 AM
Flying well, and not crashing, are two very different things.

Proven daily.

Industry Strnd
09-15-2018, 08:39 AM
Did another get busted out?

HawkeyeVan
09-23-2018, 07:55 PM
Soaper sounds like another Frank Lorenzo, a guy who treated pilots like slaves.

4runner
09-24-2018, 01:15 AM
Soaper sounds like another Frank Lorenzo, a guy who treated pilots like slaves.

He’s worse. Lorenzo was a management hitman operating airlines like a hedge fund manager. Soapy is one of us and attacking his own. Soapy is a pilot acting like a wannabe Lorenzo.

nitefr8dog
09-24-2018, 02:49 AM
He’s worse. Lorenzo was a management hitman operating airlines like a hedge fund manager. Soapy is one of us and attacking his own. Soapy is a pilot acting like a wannabe Lorenzo.
"One of us"...he is a former turbo prop commuter pilot/scheduler and house painter....he is NOT one of us!

point432
09-24-2018, 05:57 AM
"One of us"...he is a former turbo prop commuter pilot/scheduler and house painter....he is NOT one of us!



What?! Commuter pilot? I thought he just had his private with instrument. 🤨


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nitefr8dog
09-24-2018, 08:15 AM
What?! Commuter pilot? I thought he just had his private with instrument. 🤨


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Could be....heard he was in the E120 for a bit...doesn't take much more than that.

Jurassic Jet
09-24-2018, 10:36 AM
What?! Commuter pilot? I thought he just had his private with instrument. 🤨


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FAA records show commercial multi instrument.

point432
09-24-2018, 11:07 AM
FAA records show commercial multi instrument.



Maybe so then. [emoji19]


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4runner
09-24-2018, 03:24 PM
OH brasilia FO.

nitefr8dog
09-24-2018, 04:44 PM
OH brasilia FO.
Yes...E120. Told he never made it thru upgrade. Went into management..those who can fly..those who can't manage. Which he sucks at too..

motorclutch
09-25-2018, 04:52 AM
No wonder Soapy hates pilots.....Hete has a much more personal issue.

ACMItrash
11-25-2018, 04:05 PM
Flying well, and not crashing, are two very different things.

What is the wash out rate 50% of those hired?...

nitefr8dog
11-26-2018, 02:37 AM
What is the wash out rate 50% of those hired?...
More like 5%....unless it's a class of 2 and one falls on his sword...then you will get your wish. The 76 is pretty easy to get through training....its just not a difficult aircraft.

motorclutch
11-26-2018, 02:47 AM
That was in the old days. Nowww r getting guys who can only “fog a mirror”. It’s the Soapy standard.

ACMItrash
12-03-2018, 12:17 PM
More like 5%....unless it's a class of 2 and one falls on his sword...then you will get your wish. The 76 is pretty easy to get through training....its just not a difficult aircraft.

5%? there have been classes of 4 and 2 not make it or quit in short order. Guess it's not too bad unless you get the one particular check pilot who wants to tell you how much he knows and goes as far as telling pilots when they can or cannot put flaps out. Many are still amazed how this toolbox got to be a check pilot. Most are really good and are there to teach not be a stick in the mudd to fly with.

nitefr8dog
12-03-2018, 12:48 PM
5%? there have been classes of 4 and 2 not make it or quit in short order. Guess it's not too bad unless you get the one particular check pilot who wants to tell you how much he knows and goes as far as telling pilots when they can or cannot put flaps out. Many are still amazed how this toolbox got to be a check pilot. Most are really good and are there to teach not be a stick in the mudd to fly with.
Reread what I wrote...class of 2 and 1 falls on his sword 50%.Or bigger numbers you might understand 4 and 2 don't make it..either way 50%. 2016
RJ new hires sucked...maybe 1 in 10 could actually fly the aircraft autopilot off. I am sure it was a grind for him..it was the 1st time in 20 yrs I had to look at every leg and decide if we would crash or survive if the FO flew that leg....weak

motorclutch
12-03-2018, 03:39 PM
Regarding the toolbox you referenced :
He was given his position by our former “scab” who cut and ran to be with his “scab” partner at ATI. Lots of history here. Talk to some of the senior guys.

Hang10
12-05-2018, 05:34 PM
Two more new hires let go! Training gotum!

ACMItrash
12-05-2018, 05:35 PM
Regarding the toolbox you referenced :
He was given his position by our former “scab” who cut and ran to be with his “scab” partner at ATI. Lots of history here. Talk to some of the senior guys.

2 more let go today in training. ..where's mark? And I don't believe that's 50% of that class.

No growth
1/2 the crew members on reserve
No contract in sight
If you have an interview, be skeptical of anything management tries to feed you the fact is abx is going on 5 years without a contract. Certainly you can do better.

ACMItrash
03-19-2019, 05:07 PM
2 more let go today in training. ..where's mark? And I don't believe that's 50% of that class.

No growth
1/2 the crew members on reserve
No contract in sight
If you have an interview, be skeptical of anything management tries to feed you the fact is abx is going on 5 years without a contract. Certainly you can do better.
Nothing has changed.

MarkThyme
03-19-2019, 07:22 PM
Nothing has changed.

Dude, you really need a hobby. I mean other than this one.

You know as well as anyone that they're hiring for the additional flying that is coming in July, with upgrades planned for May.

Jurassic Jet
03-19-2019, 07:25 PM
You know as well as anyone that they're hiring for the additional flying that is coming in July, with upgrades planned for May.


They would 'like' to hire. Let's see how that works out for them.

And the next 30 some odd upgrades will ALL have 20+ years seniority. And they are talking about a max of 12 upgrades.

45 at the top of the FO list before you start getting to new hires that came in in mid 2016.

And then 65 'new hires' on the list.

So if you're wanting a quick upgrade into a heavy, do that math.

MarkThyme
03-19-2019, 07:55 PM
They would 'like' to hire. Let's see how that works out for them.

And the next 30 some odd upgrades will ALL have 20+ years seniority. And they are talking about a max of 12 upgrades.

45 at the top of the FO list before you start getting to new hires that came in in mid 2016.

And then 65 'new hires' on the list.

So if you're wanting a quick upgrade into a heavy, do that math.

The math has been done.

I wasn't trying to suggest that everything is unicorns and daisies now - just that the statement "nothing has changed" was not especially accurate. You want more flying? You're getting more flying. You want upgrades? You're getting upgrades. You want to get off reserve? There will be a bunch of people getting the opportunity to bid something other than reserve.

Don't complain about getting what you asked for.

Jurassic Jet
03-19-2019, 09:01 PM
Don't complain about getting what you asked for.


Exciting times at ABX indeed! Before we know it, upgrade times will be under 20 years!

abxflyr
03-20-2019, 07:12 AM
The math has been done.

I wasn't trying to suggest that everything is unicorns and daisies now - just that the statement "nothing has changed" was not especially accurate. You want more flying? You're getting more flying. You want upgrades? You're getting upgrades. You want to get off reserve? There will be a bunch of people getting the opportunity to bid something other than reserve.

Don't complain about getting what you asked for.

The point many are trying to make, and that you want to discount, is that ABX isn't really moving forward with the industry. It's not really a matter of opinion as much as fact.

True...ABX has finally reached a point where they are hiring for a short term. The group will get some limited expansion in flying (block hours...no additional aircraft) due to increased utilization in the AMZ system into ILN. New hires are for the additional hours and, as mentioned here several times, to replace those F/O's who have left. There will be a few captain upgrades (not linear to the f/o new hire numbers) to balance the flying. All the "numbers" are subject to changes since the schedule is in flux for a while to come.

Also true...any new hire will be stuck on reserve. The nature of a new-hire is to be on reserve! One goal should be to align with an outfit that minimizes that period of time. ABX flying will not expand that much (remember no additional aircraft). Current guys on reserve may see an opportunity for a left over line. Captains will almost all be on reserve but are also all 20+ year guys.

A new hires ability to make captain at ABX Air....totally unknown. Best guess (subject to others view as well). 3-4 years from now. That means that guys who are current new-hires (4 years seniority or less) may see it then; if you get on the list now.....I don't think anyone can forecast an upgrade that well; but it would be quite a while.

Can it all change...."on a dime". Will it? I think one would be better off looking at other ACMI groups who have a more defined future at this point in time. It may change...probably will at some point; care to bet your future, quality of life, seniority, benefits, retirement, stability on it?

dogo
03-20-2019, 07:20 AM
A voice of reason. Besides, who wants to risk a training failure on your record?

MarkThyme
03-20-2019, 07:47 AM
A voice of reason. Besides, who wants to risk a training failure on your record?

That's the one you're going with?

This is not the bad old days of the "Aryan Brotherhood". You don't risk a training failure at ABX any more than you do elsewhere.

Well, OK - I guess that's not entirely true. There are places out there so desperate to fill a seat that they'll pull, push, and contort themselves in any way necessary to make that happen. I think most of us in the industry (and the traveling public, if they knew it was going on) would argue that that is not ideal. Based on some of the stories I've heard coming out of training, I have real concerns about flying as a passenger on a regional airline.

Let's put it this way: If you're concerned about a training failure at a place like ABX, maybe consider a career change, or at least spend some time developing your skills to the point where it's no longer a concern.

dogo
03-20-2019, 08:13 AM
Agreed...just resign before the bust. That tactic was recently applied after a candidate with 60+ OE hours, and no sign off in sight quit and went to Atlas.

MarkThyme
03-20-2019, 08:59 AM
Agreed...just resign before the bust. That tactic was recently applied after a candidate with 60+ OE hours, and no sign off in sight quit and went to Atlas.

Which is why the PRIA is a worthless waste of everybody's time. The best you can hope for is that quit-before-failures won't get hired anywhere else. But for the reasons previously stated, and as you just pointed out, it doesn't work that way in real life.

goinaround
03-20-2019, 04:36 PM
A voice of reason. Besides, who wants to risk a training failure on your record?

I no longer work at ABX....but the training was excellent. If you wash out there....you just aren't cut out for the industry.

forrealyall
03-21-2019, 01:16 PM
Agreed...just resign before the bust. That tactic was recently applied after a candidate with 60+ OE hours, and no sign off in sight quit and went to Atlas.

If he's truly that bad isn't he just going to bust out at Atlas?

I would assume that they continue to pay you while you're in OE, even if you're taking a bit longer than usual. I would also assume that absent a huge infraction, the gentleman's agreement of you resign before I bust you would prevail? So you wouldn't really risk a failure exactly- you'd have a heads up before that happens, but you do get paid to drag it out a bit while you wait on a class date elsewhere.

Perhaps that was the plan all along?

veewan
03-21-2019, 01:47 PM
From the sound of the rumors coming out of the Atlas crash, maybe some people need to wash out.

Let's just say word on the street is likely pilot error and the pilot's training records were bad... they just got pushed through.

I guess now we wait for the NTSB report to either confirm or deny the rumors.

Grundt
03-21-2019, 02:42 PM
From the sound of the rumors coming out of the Atlas crash, maybe some people need to wash out.

Let's just say word on the street is likely pilot error and the pilot's training records were bad... they just got pushed through.

I guess now we wait for the NTSB report to either confirm or deny the rumors.

This post is pretty inappropriate, even for APC.

veewan
03-21-2019, 03:07 PM
This post is pretty inappropriate, even for APC.

Have you read the forum about the crash, both here and Pprune? Over on Pprune there's a narrative:

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/618723-atlas-air-767-down-texas-34.html#post10425322

"The initial bobble is from turbulence at 6200’. When the FO called for flaps 1, the captain accidentally hit the toga button. Toga didn’t engage until after flaps were set to 1, which then brought engine power to full, and started the initial pitch of 10 degrees nose up. The FO was startled, and shoved the nose forward... The CVR is startling, and baffling. The CA was pulling so hard against the FO that he sheared the pins on the stick and at that point had no control. They were IMC at the time. When they broke out into VMC, the FO said oh schit and started to pull. That was the round out you see. I won’t get into anything more until everything comes out. The records, the CVR, and what happened in the flight deck is truly shocking. They hit a negative 4 G dive initialy on the FOs push. All you hear is stuff hitting the ceiling and at one point a loud thud. They think the thud may have been the JS hitting the ceiling and maybe not wearing the shoulder harness. Like I said, I won’t get into anything more about the background of how it all happened. This is the accident in a nutshell. The facts that will come out are shocking."

Did you see the NTSB's initial statement that it was control column input? Sounds like this is accurate. The question is why?

So you can think it's inappropriate, but if the NTSB report comes back with the cause as pilot error and the PF's training records show that he was pushed through training to the line will that change your mind?

Makinitup
03-21-2019, 03:20 PM
If he's truly that bad isn't he just going to bust out at Atlas?

Maybe not. He already has 8 fixed base sim sessions and at least 7 full motion sim sessions along with 60 hours of recent experience (IOE). Now add on top of that all the sims and IOE time from Atlas and you talking well over 100 hours. Might start catching on by then.

PRIA reports take time to finally end up with the new employer and not everyone has a pilot pool these days to put people in while they wait for the report. So unfortunately some are entering training based solely on what they provided during the interview.

Grundt
03-22-2019, 05:33 AM
Have you read the forum about the crash, both here and Pprune? Over on Pprune there's a narrative:

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/618723-atlas-air-767-down-texas-34.html#post10425322

"The initial bobble is from turbulence at 6200’. When the FO called for flaps 1, the captain accidentally hit the toga button. Toga didn’t engage until after flaps were set to 1, which then brought engine power to full, and started the initial pitch of 10 degrees nose up. The FO was startled, and shoved the nose forward... The CVR is startling, and baffling. The CA was pulling so hard against the FO that he sheared the pins on the stick and at that point had no control. They were IMC at the time. When they broke out into VMC, the FO said oh schit and started to pull. That was the round out you see. I won’t get into anything more until everything comes out. The records, the CVR, and what happened in the flight deck is truly shocking. They hit a negative 4 G dive initialy on the FOs push. All you hear is stuff hitting the ceiling and at one point a loud thud. They think the thud may have been the JS hitting the ceiling and maybe not wearing the shoulder harness. Like I said, I won’t get into anything more about the background of how it all happened. This is the accident in a nutshell. The facts that will come out are shocking."

Did you see the NTSB's initial statement that it was control column input? Sounds like this is accurate. The question is why?

So you can think it's inappropriate, but if the NTSB report comes back with the cause as pilot error and the PF's training records show that he was pushed through training to the line will that change your mind?

That account is horrifying. I don't have a problem talking about facts learned from the CVR/FDR. Commenting about "word on the street" being that the pilot(s) had poor training records is inappropriate. It's either conjecture, which is inappropriate, or if substantiated it is grossly inappropriate to use APC as the means to share that information, and it's not some average line pilot's role to share that information in the first place.

ACMItrash
03-25-2019, 01:17 PM
Were all the ABX new hires allowed to resign that busted out of new hire training?

4runner
03-25-2019, 01:37 PM
This post is pretty inappropriate, even for APC.

Facts are inappropriate in this day and age. Feelings are what matter and that triggered me as well.

veewan
03-25-2019, 09:53 PM
Facts are inappropriate in this day and age. Feelings are what matter and that triggered me as well.

It's ok to be upset, but triggered implies PTSD.

Indeed facts are inappropriate in this day and age, hence we have crazy ideas like vaccines causing autism.

Grundt
03-26-2019, 07:29 AM
Facts are inappropriate in this day and age. Feelings are what matter and that triggered me as well.

Wait...you're relying on some post on the internet and calling it fact? I'm the one saying wait for the facts to come out from the investigation through official channels, and that keyboard commandos spewing this crap on the internet is inappropriate. IF the internet post is correct, then there are some major, major problems that must be dealt with. I am neither triggered nor unwilling to face facts. How we approach the issue during the course of the investigation matters.

veewan
03-27-2019, 04:13 AM
Wait...you're relying on some post on the internet and calling it fact? I'm the one saying wait for the facts to come out from the investigation through official channels, and that keyboard commandos spewing this crap on the internet is inappropriate. IF the internet post is correct, then there are some major, major problems that must be dealt with. I am neither triggered nor unwilling to face facts. How we approach the issue during the course of the investigation matters.

What if 4runner is implying that facts have been leaked and the story going around on the internet IS close to the actual account?

From what I've heard the post on the internet is spot on with what the NTSB's best theory is. Obviously I'll believe it when it's in a NTSB released document, but it does have a possible explanation for why a crew might have made "control column input." That was the verbiage in the first NTSB release on March 12th... they changed it sometime afternoon to "nose-down elevator deflection."

The only reason I think the NTSB changed the wording is to suggest it was not intentional (suicide). It's still possible that they meant something broke and commanded the elevator, but that's a rather bad typo considering the initial wording.

No Land 3
03-27-2019, 08:00 AM
So... Why is this on an ABX thread, particularly this one which seems the original intent was to scare away weak pilots?

ACMItrash
03-27-2019, 09:30 AM
So... Why is this on an ABX thread, particularly this one which seems the original intent was to scare away weak pilots?

I don't think the intent was to scare away weak Pilots. I think the intent is to inform all Pilots this is a toxic work environment that has gone on for years. A president who thinks he can ask for concessions from an already concessionary contract. There's a few company personal on here that think that it's okay to try and convince people to come here yet the facts stand for themselves.

50% quit several have even returned to their old employer.

New hire pilots told for 3 years a new contract is just around the corner!

ATSG

ALWAYS TOXIC SHOW GOING

dogo
03-27-2019, 09:34 AM
A word of caution: if you are stupid enough to apply to ABX.....you lose your right to whine afterwards.

johnny150
04-02-2019, 06:24 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190402/9093b202e850d0183a35f4f0e010c224.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

ACMItrash
04-09-2019, 04:55 PM
Where is MarkThyme to dispute the fact sheet? I think he has low expectations!



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