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View Full Version : Atsg incompetence


JustOvIt
08-31-2018, 05:30 AM
A letter from JH TO abx capt

, your letter to John Maloney was forwarded to me

That said, I must say that you clearly have some very strong opinions about management as individuals and the thought processes we employ in running the company. Would you care to share with me the basis for these?

I have been with this company coming up on 38 years next month. During that time we have faced many challenges where key decisions had to be made and I can assure you that never once was the basis for those decisions borne of "hatred for the pilots". Were some of those decisions unpopular with the pilots, certainly. But my job isn't to run a popularity contest, it is to make sure that any decision we make takes into account all of our constituencies, shareholders, ALL employees and the community as well.

You ask John many questions about what he is doing or can do to bring ABX back. I would ask you the same question.


JustOvIt
08-31-2018, 05:33 AM
I apologize for the delay in my reply to you, I was commuting to work from my home outside of Washington DC yesterday. Which brings to mind, first and foremost, one of your management teamís punitive and unfair practices toward ABX Air pilots: our lack of Known Crew Member status (which you do provide to ATI). Why else, but unreasonable distaste, would you cause it to be more difficult for some of your highest paid and most time critical employees to get to work every month?

I do appreciate your response to my letter to Mr. Maloney though it was not expected nor requested. My letter to him was in part related to several conversations John and I have had, one-on-one, in his office. Furthermore, you must excuse me if I am suspicious of your motivations in reply, as in my 23+ years with this company I have only once been asked for my input and then, only recently by John Maloney; rather, historically, quite the opposite has been the rule. You ask me in your closing line what I can do and what I am doing to bring ABX back. First, Iím not sure it can be brought back from where it has been allowed to fall, but beyond such evaluation, I have done all this company has asked of me to the best of my ability for my entire tenure. I have endured the same ups and downs you speak of but at a much more operational level versus your strategic level. While at this company, I have been surplussed from a captain position, furloughed entirely for eighteen months, taken pay cuts, been harassed by members of your management team (see HR for details), overcome antiquated and sometimes barbaric training methods and yet I remain, despite opportunities to go elsewhere. Secondly, I have offered my services to this company many times and been rebuked every time. I offered to become a standards pilot, I offered to help with Safety (as I was a Chief of Safety in the Air Force), I attempted to assist with attaining what this company erroneously calls CRAF flying and most recently I offered, Mr Soaper and Mr Maloney individually, the use of my extensive training and experience as an operational and strategic level planner to overcome the scheduling difficulties we have month after month. My impression has always been that your management teamís desire is for the pilots in general and myself in particular to simply acquiesce to whatever demands are placed on us. There is a lot of broad and valuable education, training and experience in this pilot group which goes apparently intentionally unresourced.

Letís talk about what your management has done to ABX Air, the community, its shareholders and its employees, including the pilots: you have taken away what were our aircraft, our maintenance, our flight control then promptly charged ABX for the use of those same resources at artificially high rates. We pay some of the highest lease rates in the industry on the very aircraft you simply took from us. While I realize this is all done internally using ATSG dollars and not real money, it allows the less savvy to claim and believe ABX is far less profitable and valuable than it in fact is. You lease aircraft to our direct competitors and use our mechanics to maintain them. While others may believe dry leasing is more profitable than ACMI, I do not! Perhaps the profit margin is higher because your unit costs are lower, but the overall profit is higher with ACMI because you make a profit on each letter therein! If that were not the case, you would have shutdown both ABX and ATI long ago. As I stated in my letter to John, once we were mentioned in the same breath as FedEx and UPS. Now, after your accession to the top post, we are losing valuable assets and work to the likes of Kalitta, Atlas, ATI, Omni, NAC and the regionals! Iím not talking solely about pilots: Forsythe, Woodford, schedulers, loadmasters, and many others. We have fallen to the bottom of the ACMI scum bucket! It is clear to me, we are not even attempting to compete: in Miami, Los Angeles, or Europe; or for military charters. I personally saw a letter where UPS asked us to fly four trips for them last fourth quarter out of KŲln and Miami, your management declined! The national economy and air freight business is better than it has been in decades, yet here we sit: shrinking and withering on the vine. How many more millions could you have earned for the shareholders, if we actually pursued or just accepted business opportunities now available to us. If at least some of these business decisions were not done out of hatred for the pilots, I fear far worse causality exists. Thousands of former Airborne Express employees nationwide lost their jobs, the city and community of Wilmington have been financially harmed severely, not once but twice in the last ten years, were you not at the helm for each and every one of those ten years? How much personal loss did you assume? How does your income compare today with 2008?

Atrasaty
08-31-2018, 07:19 AM
Bravo......good on ya.


cargowarrior
08-31-2018, 08:54 AM
I apologize for the delay in my reply to you, I was commuting to work from my home outside of Washington DC yesterday. Which brings to mind, first and foremost, one of your management teamís punitive and unfair practices toward ABX Air pilots: our lack of Known Crew Member status (which you do provide to ATI). Why else, but unreasonable distaste, would you cause it to be more difficult for some of your highest paid and most time critical employees to get to work every month?

I do appreciate your response to my letter to Mr. Maloney though it was not expected nor requested. My letter to him was in part related to several conversations John and I have had, one-on-one, in his office. Furthermore, you must excuse me if I am suspicious of your motivations in reply, as in my 23+ years with this company I have only once been asked for my input and then, only recently by John Maloney; rather, historically, quite the opposite has been the rule. You ask me in your closing line what I can do and what I am doing to bring ABX back. First, Iím not sure it can be brought back from where it has been allowed to fall, but beyond such evaluation, I have done all this company has asked of me to the best of my ability for my entire tenure. I have endured the same ups and downs you speak of but at a much more operational level versus your strategic level. While at this company, I have been surplussed from a captain position, furloughed entirely for eighteen months, taken pay cuts, been harassed by members of your management team (see HR for details), overcome antiquated and sometimes barbaric training methods and yet I remain, despite opportunities to go elsewhere. Secondly, I have offered my services to this company many times and been rebuked every time. I offered to become a standards pilot, I offered to help with Safety (as I was a Chief of Safety in the Air Force), I attempted to assist with attaining what this company erroneously calls CRAF flying and most recently I offered, Mr Soaper and Mr Maloney individually, the use of my extensive training and experience as an operational and strategic level planner to overcome the scheduling difficulties we have month after month. My impression has always been that your management teamís desire is for the pilots in general and myself in particular to simply acquiesce to whatever demands are placed on us. There is a lot of broad and valuable education, training and experience in this pilot group which goes apparently intentionally unresourced.

Letís talk about what your management has done to ABX Air, the community, its shareholders and its employees, including the pilots: you have taken away what were our aircraft, our maintenance, our flight control then promptly charged ABX for the use of those same resources at artificially high rates. We pay some of the highest lease rates in the industry on the very aircraft you simply took from us. While I realize this is all done internally using ATSG dollars and not real money, it allows the less savvy to claim and believe ABX is far less profitable and valuable than it in fact is. You lease aircraft to our direct competitors and use our mechanics to maintain them. While others may believe dry leasing is more profitable than ACMI, I do not! Perhaps the profit margin is higher because your unit costs are lower, but the overall profit is higher with ACMI because you make a profit on each letter therein! If that were not the case, you would have shutdown both ABX and ATI long ago. As I stated in my letter to John, once we were mentioned in the same breath as FedEx and UPS. Now, after your accession to the top post, we are losing valuable assets and work to the likes of Kalitta, Atlas, ATI, Omni, NAC and the regionals! Iím not talking solely about pilots: Forsythe, Woodford, schedulers, loadmasters, and many others. We have fallen to the bottom of the ACMI scum bucket! It is clear to me, we are not even attempting to compete: in Miami, Los Angeles, or Europe; or for military charters. I personally saw a letter where UPS asked us to fly four trips for them last fourth quarter out of KŲln and Miami, your management declined! The national economy and air freight business is better than it has been in decades, yet here we sit: shrinking and withering on the vine. How many more millions could you have earned for the shareholders, if we actually pursued or just accepted business opportunities now available to us. If at least some of these business decisions were not done out of hatred for the pilots, I fear far worse causality exists. Thousands of former Airborne Express employees nationwide lost their jobs, the city and community of Wilmington have been financially harmed severely, not once but twice in the last ten years, were you not at the helm for each and every one of those ten years? How much personal loss did you assume? How does your income compare today with 2008?

Yeah what he said!

qiutong
08-31-2018, 09:38 AM
You forgot to mention JHís remark, ďATI, whose pilots did not support the strike, will get the remainder of the Amazon flying.Ē If that doesnít show his bias against the ABX pilots, I donít know what does......

woog315
08-31-2018, 09:55 AM
You forgot to mention JH’s remark, “ATI, whose pilots did not support the strike, will get the remainder of the Amazon flying.” If that doesn’t show his bias against the ABX pilots, I don’t know what does......

Well ABX pilots opted to go on strike, they had to know there would be consequences. That has nothing to do with hating pilots, just consequences of ABX's choices as a pilot group.

Good letter, btw

Red Baron
08-31-2018, 09:55 AM
Outstanding letter!

JustOvIt
08-31-2018, 11:02 AM
The sad part is the lack of responsibility of the ATSG board of directors.
Itís one thing to hate your pilot group. But itís another to turn away business. To shrink the business, and to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars hiring and training new hires to see them leave !!

JustOvIt
08-31-2018, 11:07 AM
And this is the Brutal truth.


Brutally done! Very nice! It won’t matter. He still blames us for the strike... His decisions led to that.... His stubbornness, and intention to “not encourage bad behavior”. Rick and Starky had two separate settlement agreements to prevent that... he over-ruled.. He may never accept his culpability.... nobody at ATSG has ever accepted responsibility for anything. Point fingers and blame... small minds.

Their hatred of us is so universally manifested at every level of the organization that they don’t even recognize it as a primary motive for their stupidity.

The greatest cargo airline opportunity in 40 years, Amazon, falls at their feet, and they fight, and bicker, violate the contract, and try to take more from the pilots! Of course! What should we expect from a management team that has NO VISION!? Have they ever looked forward and projected significant market factors in the past? The pilot shortage was no surprise! Looking forward, having a great contract could ensure ABX’s ability to provide for AMZN but small minded crap contracts, and whip sawing, ensures ATSG’s failure. Our P/E is 60. AAWW’s is 7.... how long after we continue to shrink and lose CMI revenue does ATSG stock dive? It’s very likely a $2.00 stock!

I would have liked you to call out David Soaper! A proven two time loser that couldn’t create a profit with bankruptcy contracts at Comair or Southern. That PUTZ told us in CRM, February 2017, that he doesn’t care if ABX succeeds or fails, because HE gets paid either way! He continues to threaten to shut us down. We have 5 airplanes that are not being utilized (20 % of the fleet). Ridiculous! If you were an uneducated landscaper, common sense wouldn’t let you have 20% of your capital assets sitting idle!

He has no clue about what’s going on in the pilot job front, the quality of the guys we’ve gotten most recently is scary. Atlas just bent an airplane with an incompetent new hire, and its bound to happen here.

It’s obvious that his sole qualification to become airline management was marrying into the Comair (Muller) family. He’s using the same discernment at ABX by hiring friends and family. F.........is a family friend, has multiple alcohol related arrests, and would not even qualify to be a pilot here, because he can’t go to Canada! And he’s telling me what I’m worth?! He’s gonna save the company by taking away my lunch! They have no clue how to run this operation.
Their contract proposals are ridiculous, he’s trying to be a hero, refusing to accept the true costs of the Kalitta contract... fewer days of work a year, lost productivity with home basing, NO JRMing! They have to staff properly (what a concept). Soaper wants to give us Kalitta rates, but nothing else. Greedy, and stupid! We need a contract that can attract and retain pilots. He just doesn’t get it!

The two of them have chased out any talent that we once had. Woodford and Forsyth gone! The best of our new hires gone! The frustration level is demonstrated with our collapsed on-time performance. How the hell is Soaper still employed? Shocking!

You also failed to point out that this pilot group wants nothing more than to be successful, look forward to coming to work, and flying our asses off for a company that appreciates us. It would take very little to change our attitudes toward this place. We still have the express mentality that can wow our customers. Just have to get that jackass out of here. Hete, has the smarts to get it back on track, he just has to stop seeing red, when he looks at the pilots... OH! and merge the dan airlines, and clear out that useless and unsafe ATI culture.

Tumbl3weed
08-31-2018, 11:24 AM
ďYou ask John many questions about what he is doing or can do to bring ABX back. I would ask you the same question.Ē
Well, letís start with getting rid of Soaper.
-Failed at Comair and Southern
-threatens to furlough and then wants to blame the pilots for their inability to staff the airline
-surrounds himself with a no-talent management team lacking any leadership skills causing any talented people to leave...and I donít mean pilots
-says ďit doesnít matter if ABX succeeds or fails, I still get paidĒ and then in the next breath says they need more productivity out of the pilot contract-Yes, thatís a good approach.
-finally, said fixing maintenance is his priority...OMG, itís never been this bad in my 25 years with this company.

So letís start by holding Soaper accountable for his failure to accomplish any positive operational changes

cargowarrior
08-31-2018, 11:38 AM
At the rate of non-pilots leaving we wonít have to strike the office staff will put it out of business before we get the chance too.

qiutong
08-31-2018, 11:51 AM
Well ABX pilots opted to go on strike, they had to know there would be consequences. That has nothing to do with hating pilots, just consequences of ABX's choices as a pilot group.

The consequences of the strike, were that the status quo was reestablished, and that should have been it. The strike was over, and JH lost. The fact that he then chose to stunt any growth of an airline, staffed with some of the industries more competent and experienced pilots, to staff ATI with less competent and lesser experienced pilots, I feel does show a bias toward ABX. Heís holding a grudge, and any thinking person can see that.

C7fr8dog
09-04-2018, 05:14 AM
The consequences of the strike, were that the status quo was reestablished, and that should have been it. The strike was over, and JH lost. The fact that he then chose to stunt any growth of an airline, staffed with some of the industries more competent and experienced pilots, to staff ATI with less competent and lesser experienced pilots, I feel does show a bias toward ABX. Heís holding a grudge, and any thinking person can see that.

The fact is ABX Pilots didn't go on STRIKE because they were treated so well. Management has battled the Teamsters and pilots since the union was first established. It's here for a reason and it's going to stay. Along with that if pushed again we will strike again. We aren't afraid.

gumpscheck
09-04-2018, 06:14 AM
The fact is ABX Pilots didn't go on STRIKE because they were treated so well. Management has battled the Teamsters and pilots since the union was first established. It's here for a reason and it's going to stay. Along with that if pushed again we will strike again. We aren't afraid.

Right On Bro!!

Hang10
09-04-2018, 04:57 PM
Am Ready To walk the Line! I understand Soaper was a bad crew scheduler to! And just keeps getting worse! Ask Joe-if I did my job like Soaper! Would I get a lot of stock options? How does the Board let this happen? Somebody has to be help responsible for the losses!

Industry Strnd
09-05-2018, 10:15 AM
I wonder who is actually in charge? Tail wagging the dog here?

JustOvIt
09-09-2018, 04:52 AM
Clearly they are just as clueless as Soapy

Rademacher
Baudouin
John's
Peterson
Teets
Vorholt
Hete

motorclutch
09-09-2018, 09:16 AM
Keep in mind: the chairman of the board, ďRegional RandyĒ is Soapys sea daddy. Heís the one responsible for bringing havoc to ABX.

C7fr8dog
09-09-2018, 12:03 PM
Keep in mind: the chairman of the board, ďRegional RandyĒ is Soapys sea daddy. Heís the one responsible for bringing havoc to ABX.

ONLY ABX/ATSG management could make an airline so miserable that nobody cares anymore what happens. At least we arenít afraid of loosing our jobs now. In 2009 we gave 40% concessions. Every employee group was rewarded except the pilots. Management will try to have everyone believe that the strike was flight crews fault but even history will show you that happy employees do NOT strike. Employees that are treated well do not strike.
ATSG has done the complete opposite. They bought ATI with our money to use against us. They under staffed the airline on purpose so that our brothers dropped off the list and new hires could come in.
They tried with holding vacations. They agreed to a 40% concessionary contract in 2009 and now just want more even though it was our frozen pension that allowed the survival of ABX.
Now ATSG is profitable and refuses to even acknowledge us. They like to play that we are simply an ACMI carrier now. Why would anyone want to work for an ACMI carrier. Clearly itís never anyoneís first choice. Now even in the ACMI world why would anyone want to work for an ACMI that has management that has a LONG history of a Lorenzo type management practices?? An ACMI where upgrades take 20+ years. An ACMI where there is NEGATIVE growth. An ACMI where the parent company leases your assets directly to your competition. An ACMI that quite frankly is not even prepared to work with the customers it has.
ABX is an airline that has a proven failed management team at the helm.
ABX AIR is now the Tintantic. Management is the poorly redesigned hull that used short cuts due to cost. We the pilots at ABX are the passengers. There is nothing we can do to save this ship. Itís all up to people with a higher pay grade than mine.
#ATSG #ABX AIR

Jurassic Jet
09-09-2018, 01:03 PM
ABX AIR is now the Titanic.

I think that is coming home to roost with most anyone that is looking for a job. I've heard only 1 person showed up for class last week. The word is out on this place. The failure of ABX will lie directly at the feet of Soapy. Of course, he is very familiar with being at the helm of failed airlines. He has somewhat of a history of it.

#ComairPartDeux

motorclutch
09-09-2018, 01:14 PM
Even better revenge....once this place goes into the memory books, all of the remaining haters of pilots at ABX can blame us for losing their jobs. ABX HR better stock up on unemployment handouts for distribution in the near future.

Tumbl3weed
09-09-2018, 01:38 PM
3888
-Believe in Something

JustOvIt
09-09-2018, 02:23 PM
Get ready to explain to your stockholders whatís going to happen.

And donít worry , your job will be just fine like 2016 NOT !!!

Keepcalm
09-09-2018, 07:00 PM
3888
-Believe in Something he couldn't run a lawn mowing business

Whitesnake
09-10-2018, 08:03 AM
ONLY ABX/ATSG management could make an airline so miserable that nobody cares anymore what happens. At least we arenít afraid of loosing our jobs now. In 2009 we gave 40% concessions. Every employee group was rewarded except the pilots. Management will try to have everyone believe that the strike was flight crews fault but even history will show you that happy employees do NOT strike. Employees that are treated well do not strike.
ATSG has done the complete opposite. They bought ATI with our money to use against us. They under staffed the airline on purpose so that our brothers dropped off the list and new hires could come in.
They tried with holding vacations. They agreed to a 40% concessionary contract in 2009 and now just want more even though it was our frozen pension that allowed the survival of ABX.
Now ATSG is profitable and refuses to even acknowledge us. They like to play that we are simply an ACMI carrier now. Why would anyone want to work for an ACMI carrier. Clearly itís never anyoneís first choice. Now even in the ACMI world why would anyone want to work for an ACMI that has management that has a LONG history of a Lorenzo type management practices?? An ACMI where upgrades take 20+ years. An ACMI where there is NEGATIVE growth. An ACMI where the parent company leases your assets directly to your competition. An ACMI that quite frankly is not even prepared to work with the customers it has.
ABX is an airline that has a proven failed management team at the helm.
ABX AIR is now the Tintantic. Management is the poorly redesigned hull that used short cuts due to cost. We the pilots at ABX are the passengers. There is nothing we can do to save this ship. Itís all up to people with a higher pay grade than mine.
#ATSG #ABX AIR

You hit the nail on the head with the Lorenzo comparison.
Isnít that a swear word ?

C7fr8dog
09-10-2018, 01:56 PM
You hit the nail on the head with the Lorenzo comparison.
Isnít that a swear word ?


1-ZERO GROWTH-negative growth
2-NO UPGRADES-unless youíve been here over 20 years then only maybe.
3-WHIPSAWED BY MGMNT-repeatedly
4-NO HOME BASING-CVG Domicile. Commute with no protection.
5-NO KCM-sister Airline with Home basing has it tho.
6-NO HOTEL POINTS-non-potable water in MTY Hotel
7-LOW 1st YR PAY
8-LEASES AC DIRECTLY TO COMPETITION- Ameri-Jet, Atlantic West, and the list goes on.
9-NO PASS BENEFITS FOR TRAVEL
ALL THIS EQUALS= ????

You make the choice but I know what Iíd do.

Hang10
09-12-2018, 03:25 AM
Howís is Soaper in charge? He could not get a job as a assistant manager at Taco Bell?

JustOvIt
09-13-2018, 06:22 PM
This place is such a cesspool. Oct bid awards came out around 5 pm
Hour later scheduling advises us they need time to adjust them tomorrow morning. What a joke.

Status quo violation ???

nitefr8dog
09-14-2018, 02:30 AM
This place is such a cesspool. Oct bid awards came out around 5 pm
Hour later scheduling advises us they need time to adjust them tomorrow morning. What a joke.

Status quo violation ???
No....just incompetence

thesandbox
09-14-2018, 04:40 AM
This place is such a cesspool. Oct bid awards came out around 5 pm
Hour later scheduling advises us they need time to adjust them tomorrow morning. What a joke.

Status quo violation ???


.

Wow....so early....at Atlas the bid package doesn't even come out until the 18th. We might know next month the week before. :cool:

gumpscheck
09-14-2018, 06:41 AM
.

Wow....so early....at Atlas the bid package doesn't even come out until the 18th. We might know next month the week before. :cool:

ABX has to contractually publish the Line Bid Awards by the 13th of the month.

But changing the subject, it is clear that Soapy and JH are ready to shut down ABX Air. DHL and Amazon should be forewarned.

nitefr8dog
09-14-2018, 11:29 AM
.

Wow....so early....at Atlas the bid package doesn't even come out until the 18th. We might know next month the week before. :cool:by contract to the crews on the 5th due back on the 13th and published by 1700z. Early in the month works in the company favor too...as its usually screwed up and it gives them time for the revisions. Keep in mind at ABX scheduling stuff is done on a piece of slate with a chunk of coal...I guess it all depends on what you negotiated...

Jurassic Jet
09-14-2018, 12:23 PM
Keep in mind at ABX scheduling stuff is done on a piece of slate with a chunk of coal

I've heard they recently acquired an Abacus at a garage sale.

tiredofjrm
09-14-2018, 05:19 PM
Negotiations are going nowhere. Thank you Soaper.
DHL cancelled 2 more runs. Iím not sure who to thank here..
It might be time to ask NMB to be released. At least we go out on our terms.

nitefr8dog
09-14-2018, 05:40 PM
Howís is Soaper in charge? He could not get a job as a assistant manager at Taco Bell?
How? He specializes in driving airlines into ground until the wheels come off....its all he knows

JustOvIt
09-14-2018, 05:52 PM
Assured us that the bid awards were just fine. No problems.

Interesting enough two hours later a revision showing just over 25 folks October awards were WRONG. WRONG

Incompetence on every level.

Those who continue to think this is a carrier airline or stepping stone
RUN RUN RUN

Jurassic Jet
09-14-2018, 06:01 PM
DHL cancelled 2 more runs. Iím not sure who to thank here..


So once JFK and EWR are gone, that will put us at a whopping grand total of 6 departures a night out of CVG for DHL. Where have I seen this kind of drawdown before? Hmmm, let me think.

motorclutch
09-14-2018, 06:14 PM
All to be completed by Jan 1óthe same date VP Baloney gave our DO of an additional proffer if he would pull his captain bid and stay in his position until then. Everyone of these guys is inept even when they lie! Clown show on the nth degree.

Formerbuspilot
09-14-2018, 06:43 PM
So once JFK and EWR are gone, that will put us at a whopping grand total of 6 departures a night out of CVG for DHL. Where have I seen this kind of drawdown before? Hmmm, let me think.

ABX.... Welcome to the barrel, enjoy your turn.

nitefr8dog
09-14-2018, 07:54 PM
ABX.... Welcome to the barrel, enjoy your turn.You think Astar is the only one who struggled....we laid off more pilots than Astar had total! This is our 2nd time in the DHL barrel...115 airframes down to 13 in 2009...

Jurassic Jet
09-14-2018, 08:24 PM
You think Astar is the only one who struggled....we laid off more pilots than Astar had total!

That detail seems to get lost. Over 800 no longer with us.

Industry Strnd
09-15-2018, 08:28 AM
https://www3.forbes.com/leadership/ten-signs-your-company-couldnt-care-less-about-you/10/

How many of these traits does the ABX ATSG management have? I counted 8.

ABX ATSG loses more flying!

forrealyall
09-15-2018, 09:01 AM
I've heard they recently acquired an Abacus at a garage sale.

JFC. :D

There are a lot of people here doing their best with what they are given, though. You can only shine a turd so much.

JustOvIt
09-18-2018, 07:43 AM
Canít wait to see how Heteís going to spin his bull**** to the shareholders when revenueís are down during the best quarter of the year .(4th quarter)

SAS flying almost zero after Oct 1st
How many airplanes parked Besides the spares ,3?
Turned down ups contract

Board clueless

nitefr8dog
09-18-2018, 09:09 AM
Canít wait to see how Heteís going to spin his bull**** to the shareholders when revenueís are down during the best quarter of the year .(4th quarter)

SAS flying almost zero after Oct 1st
How many airplanes parked Besides the spares ,3?
Turned down ups contract

Board clueless
Nobody asks those questions....nobody gives two $h!ts
about labor squabbles....or lost revenue. Only current numbers....leasing and MRO are all Hete cares about...everyone else too.

nitefr8dog
09-18-2018, 10:10 AM
JFC. :D

There are a lot of people here doing their best with what they are given, though. You can only shine a turd so much.
Agreed...............

forrealyall
09-18-2018, 01:30 PM
Look out for one another out there- with all the stuff going on it can be easy to focus on that to the detriment of safety. The lack of support crew certainly doesn't help.

If it doesn't look right, don't do it. What's the worst that could happen? The airline shuts down?

Whitesnake
09-18-2018, 03:18 PM
Canít wait to see how Heteís going to spin his bull**** to the shareholders when revenueís are down during the best quarter of the year .(4th quarter)

SAS flying almost zero after Oct 1st
How many airplanes parked Besides the spares ,3?
Turned down ups contract

Board clueless

You are right. The Board IS clueless.

They ought to know that David Soaper is pretty much responsible for turning this place into feces, and responsible for so much unnecessary cost to ATSG.
*Denver training costs.
*Hiring pilots to replace pilots he drove away by threatening furloughs.

Like others have said already, he is a proven failure.
Think Comair and Southern.
I wonder how he will spin this experience off as a success on his resume?

He is not invested in anything more than his own 3 year deal here.

This is a the equivalent of a seventh grader being put into a position of power and who is from the same league of individuals
who also run this company with personal vendettas.

nitefr8dog
09-19-2018, 03:05 AM
You are right. The Board IS clueless.

They ought to know that David Soaper is pretty much responsible for turning this place into feces, and responsible for so much unnecessary cost to ATSG.
*Denver training costs.
*Hiring pilots to replace pilots he drove away by threatening furloughs.

Like others have said already, he is a proven failure.
Think Comair and Southern.
I wonder how he will spin this experience off as a success on his resume?

He is not invested in anything more than his own 3 year deal here.

This is a the equivalent of a seventh grader being put into a position of power and who is from the same league of individuals
who also run this company with personal vendettas.
Soaper does not need a resume to paint houses.....and that was exactly what he was doing after Southern fired him and ATSG hired him.

Jurassic Jet
09-19-2018, 04:18 AM
Soaper does not need a resume to paint houses.....and that was exactly what he was doing after Southern fired him and ATSG hired him.

I would suspect he sucks at that too.

nitefr8dog
09-19-2018, 04:43 AM
I would suspect he sucks at that too.
I am guessing you are correct....

JustOvIt
09-19-2018, 12:09 PM
And they junior man almost every day !

motorclutch
09-19-2018, 12:36 PM
They cancelled it to keep Boja in the office. #screwed

cargowarrior
09-19-2018, 01:54 PM
They cancelled it to keep Boja in the office. #screwed

Well my upgrade just went back to 22 years. So play my cards right Iíll be captain by age 57. :cool:

nitefr8dog
09-19-2018, 01:55 PM
They cancelled it to keep Boja in the office. #screwed
And to pi$$ the pilot group off in hopes they cave and go crawling to the company begging for a contract.. any contract.. and post here saying the sky is falling. All part of the process. We need bag tags that say...who cares...

Keepcalm
09-19-2018, 05:16 PM
And to pi$$ the pilot group off in hopes they cave and go crawling to the company begging for a contract.. any contract.. and post here saying the sky is falling. All part of the process. We need bag tags that say...who cares...
Nobody does care. David soaper thinks we do. So many pilots are retirement eligible or at the beginning of their careers that the group is steadfast that it'll be right or it'll not be.

atpcliff
09-19-2018, 07:07 PM
Nobody does care. David soaper thinks we do. So many pilots are retirement eligible or at the beginning of their careers that the group is steadfast that it'll be right or it'll not be.

I think it's the same at Atlas. IF we get to vote, we won't approve anything other than a great contract.

If we don't get to vote, and end up with a not great contract, then Atlas/Southern will start shrinking in size, both pilots and aircraft.

actually, we have already started shrinking this year, in pilots, while adding airframes...

Shabby
09-19-2018, 08:29 PM
The cancellation will definitely do one thing, and thatís to convince the 151ís that there is no reason to stay at ABX.

mukalel
09-20-2018, 04:36 AM
I think it's the same at Atlas. IF we get to vote, we won't approve anything other than a great contract.

If we don't get to vote, and end up with a not great contract, then Atlas/Southern will start shrinking in size, both pilots and aircraft.
Ö
actually, we have already started shrinking this year, in pilots, while adding airframes...

Heard southern just bought two passenger 737s to use solely for ioe training. They have a lot of new lca vacancies and from what i hear supposed to get 45 737s.. possibly for amazon?? Who knows but i dont see atlas/shrinking in size. The only place thats shrinking is abx.

atpcliff
09-21-2018, 05:24 PM
Heard southern just bought two passenger 737s to use solely for ioe training. They have a lot of new lca vacancies and from what i hear supposed to get 45 737s.. possibly for amazon?? Who knows but i dont see atlas/shrinking in size. The only place thats shrinking is abx.

Atlas/Southern, so far in 2018, has shrunk in numbers of pilots. It doesn't matter if Atlas buys more planes, if they have less pilots, those planes won't go anywhere.

I hope both ABX and Atlas/Southern get great new contracts, and soon.

No Land 3
09-21-2018, 11:29 PM
Heard southern just bought two passenger 737s to use solely for ioe training. They have a lot of new lca vacancies and from what i hear supposed to get 45 737s.. possibly for amazon?? Who knows but i dont see atlas/shrinking in size. The only place thats shrinking is abx.
Who is going to fly those 737's? Flight instructors with 1500 tt?

mukalel
09-22-2018, 12:24 PM
Who is going to fly those 737's? Flight instructors with 1500 tt?

Probably. Abx is already down to not needing any turbine time to get hired on.. or there is a magical contract decision coming their way soon.. nott

WhipWhitaker
09-22-2018, 05:13 PM
Who is going to fly those 737's? Flight instructors with 1500 tt?

Done safely at regional airlines daily, why not.

JustOvIt
09-22-2018, 06:59 PM
Well hold your breath , Hete just approved
KCM for Abx.

Poor Soaps, he must be furious !

Jurassic Jet
09-22-2018, 08:52 PM
Well hold your breath , Hete just approved
KCM for Abx.

Poor Soaps, he must be furious !


This is the beginning of the end for Soaper. He will cite irreconcilable differences with JH and be back painting houses soon.

motorclutch
09-23-2018, 06:37 AM
He was furious. I love it.

nitefr8dog
09-23-2018, 09:17 AM
Well hold your breath , Hete just approved
KCM for Abx.

Poor Soaps, he must be furious !
Should be up just in time for guys to Jumpseat in to turn in their Ids as they shutter the place....

gumpscheck
09-23-2018, 02:44 PM
Should be up just in time for guys to Jumpseat in to turn in their Ids as they shutter the place....

Nothing but good news, huh?

forrealyall
09-23-2018, 05:10 PM
I'm pretty sure you can just mail it in these days. Maybe Fedex it for good measure.

nitefr8dog
09-23-2018, 05:18 PM
I'm pretty sure you can just mail it in these days. Maybe Fedex it for good measure.
Better than being stranded....my previous airline a couple back...the Director of Training called and said if you want a ride to Chicago get on the last airplane tonight or find your own way..they are shutting it down tonight. Cleaned out the crashpad and drove home with buddy..it was a quiet ride home.

forrealyall
09-24-2018, 12:54 PM
Better than being stranded....my previous airline a couple back...the Director of Training called and said if you want a ride to Chicago get on the last airplane tonight or find your own way..they are shutting it down tonight. Cleaned out the crashpad and drove home with buddy..it was a quiet ride home.

Damn, I bet. At least they gave you a heads up.

wjcandee
09-24-2018, 01:08 PM
Better than being stranded....my previous airline a couple back...the Director of Training called and said if you want a ride to Chicago get on the last airplane tonight or find your own way..they are shutting it down tonight. Cleaned out the crashpad and drove home with buddy..it was a quiet ride home.

At least they were flying the aircraft back to the hub! When Midway Airlines (the Dave Hinson version) shut down suddenly, my ex was station manager in PHX (an outstation). She got a teletype that the inbound aircraft was/were just to be left at the gate and stipped of certain consumables, and the lessors could damn well come and pick up the aircraft themselves. (I don't remember whether it was one aircraft or two; I seem to remember two.) It would be her job to break the news officially to the crews.

I got a call from her in the middle of the night Texas time. She had the crewmembers in her office, and I got to remotely join their little farewell-party by speakerphone. It sounded as if the liquor kits had been the first consumables removed from the aircraft. :-)

Brokenwind
09-24-2018, 06:01 PM
Hard pressed to find liquor kits on ABX aircraft.... Some of the colorful types may have private stashes though!

JustOvIt
09-29-2018, 01:13 PM
Abx is crying to the union
They need help building the November Bid Pack ! No one is left to put the schedules together. What a joke , I guess I can add Abx Air to the incompetence list, but we all knew this anyway !

midnightshuttle
09-30-2018, 11:36 AM
Weíre getting added flying

I know are old CP is picking up trips that never show in open time...

Everyone here is skywhoring though

tiredofjrm
09-30-2018, 03:29 PM
Everyone? You should be careful with that word. I have not picked up one opentime trip since I got hired 2+ years ago.

gumpscheck
09-30-2018, 03:34 PM
Weíre getting added flying

I know are old CP is picking up trips that never show in open time...

Everyone here is skywhoring though

What old Chief Pilot?

Shabby
09-30-2018, 03:54 PM
Everyone? You should be careful with that word. I have not picked up one opentime trip since I got hired 2+ years ago.

Doesnít it suck that some people keep on picking up trips from open time?

nitefr8dog
09-30-2018, 04:14 PM
At least they were flying the aircraft back to the hub! When Midway Airlines (the Dave Hinson version) shut down suddenly, my ex was station manager in PHX (an outstation). She got a teletype that the inbound aircraft was/were just to be left at the gate and stipped of certain consumables, and the lessors could damn well come and pick up the aircraft themselves. (I don't remember whether it was one aircraft or two; I seem to remember two.) It would be her job to break the news officially to the crews.

I got a call from her in the middle of the night Texas time. She had the crewmembers in her office, and I got to remotely join their little farewell-party by speakerphone. It sounded as if the liquor kits had been the first consumables removed from the aircraft. :-)
Lived thru that too...

nitefr8dog
09-30-2018, 04:19 PM
We’re getting added flying

I know are old CP is picking up trips that never show in open time...

Everyone here is skywhoring though
"Are" old ABX chief pilot is an instructor at UPS. The one prior to him is an instructor at FDX...who else you have in mind?^

cargowarrior
10-01-2018, 12:11 AM
Abx is crying to the union
They need help building the November Bid Pack ! No one is left to put the schedules together. What a joke , I guess I can add Abx Air to the incompetence list, but we all knew this anyway !

Ha! Perhaps they can hire all the ones who left back. Surely they realize that a livable wage goes a long way to keeping people around. Just a thought!

b707guy
10-01-2018, 01:17 PM
"Are" old ABX chief pilot is an instructor at UPS. The one prior to him is an instructor at FDX...who else you have in mind?^


Mr. Shuttle is (or purports himself to be) a somewhat less-than-gruntled ATI pilot.


So, ""are" old CP" is in reference to ATI's previous CP who has vacated the position and returned to the line. That he's (apparently) picking up flying that never appeared in open time is as interesting as it is out of character.



That "everyone" here is skywhoring is patently false.

forrealyall
10-02-2018, 02:19 AM
Ha! Perhaps they can hire all the ones who left back. Surely they realize that a livable wage goes a long way to keeping people around. Just a thought!

LOL...for some of us it wasn't a lack of "living wage" it was a lack of "living with you" wage.

But yes, the refusal to directly compete with Atlas for retention/applicants didn't help anything.

JustOvIt
10-02-2018, 05:44 AM
ATSG just bought Omni !!

Hang10
10-02-2018, 05:55 AM
Omni guys just got screwed! Welcome to the worse management in Aviation!!!

HeavyDriver
10-02-2018, 06:05 AM
Omni guys just got screwed! Welcome to the worse management in Aviation!!!

Probably load the debt free airline up with debt, and sell off the assets over time. Good business the bankers say.

freighthound
10-04-2018, 03:40 AM
Doesnít it suck that some people keep on picking up trips from open time?

Some? I would say most. Making yourself available for junior manning is the same as bidding open time, just has a higher pay rate.

tiredofjrm
10-04-2018, 10:03 AM
We are all skyhoes. Itís just a matter of how much. Some will do it for opentime. Some for a promise of more airplanes and possible upgrade. Some for JRM and D6 days.
It is a very small percentage that donít fit into any of these categories. Usually, it those who are already in the left seat with a nice $$$ cushion in the bank.

Reactivity
10-04-2018, 12:05 PM
We are all skyhoes.

Speak for yourself.

tiredofjrm
10-04-2018, 04:11 PM
Reactivity wonít do a MIA turn for $10,000? I call BS!

Reactivity
10-04-2018, 04:18 PM
Reactivity wonít do a MIA turn for $10,000? I call BS!

Where are you finding junior man assignments that pay $10k?

tiredofjrm
10-04-2018, 04:46 PM
So youíd do it for $10,000?

Grundt
10-04-2018, 05:05 PM
So you’d do it for $10,000?

You wouldn't do a MIA turn for $10,000 and at least 1 other day off?

...which is beside the point because that's not even what's in the CBA. This is a stupid conversation.

Locke
10-04-2018, 05:38 PM
A guy meets a beautiful woman at the bar. He asks ďwould you sleep with me for a million dollars?Ē She replies ďfor a million dollars of course I would.Ē He then asks ďHow about for 50 dollars?Ē
ďWhat kind of woman do you think I am?Ē She replies
ďWeíve already established what kind of woman you are. Now weíre just haggling on the price.Ē

tiredofjrm
10-05-2018, 04:32 AM
Exactly!!!

atpcliff
10-06-2018, 03:53 AM
I don't understand why ATSG bought Omni.

ATSG doesn't want a reasonable contract for ABX...they think it's too expensive.

Then, they spend a TON of money buying Omni, whose pilots have arguably THE best contract in the ACMI industry, with THE BEST first year pay in the US airline industry.

Seems like they were trying to kill ABX, and just go with one airline, and now they bought a new one???

Any insights???

Note: I wonder if Amazon and/or DHL is actually behind this purchase...

nitefr8dog
10-06-2018, 04:12 AM
I don't understand why ATSG bought Omni.

ATSG doesn't want a reasonable contract for ABX...they think it's too expensive.

Then, they spend a TON of money buying Omni, whose pilots have arguably THE best contract in the ACMI industry, with THE BEST first year pay in the US airline industry.

Seems like they were trying to kill ABX, and just go with one airline, and now they bought a new one???

Any insights???

Note: I wonder if Amazon and/or DHL is actually behind this purchase...
It's more than pay...they want back our scope to make it easier to whipsaw, scheduling protection, reassignment pay, JRM day payback, disability amounts reduced ...all the stuff we will never give up. Base pay is nothing the real money is when they screw up and have to pay penalty premium pay plus days back.

JustOvIt
10-06-2018, 04:14 AM
Why would amazon or dhl want a passenger airline ?

But you are correct? Maybe Hete knows heís losing the DHL contract and found an easy revenue replacement, well additional income .

Asci
10-06-2018, 04:19 AM
Iím not sure how much you guys know about government contracts, but they are cash cows. Iíll bet you 50% of ATIís profits come from the 15% of CRAF flights they operate. Itís the easiest money out there, aviation or otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Checkers21
10-06-2018, 04:33 AM
I wonder if and how this will effect Kalitta. I know 777’s are being added to the fleet...

JustOvIt
10-16-2018, 08:27 AM
I know it makes no sense but everyone is talking about it...Except Joe Hete...

Hete's latest comment to a crew member was of course I see a lot of activity around the old sort building, but that doesn't mean I know what's going on...

Come on Joe... spill the beans.. of course ABX,ATI or ATLAS have no idea who the players are, and why Amazon is waiting is anyone guess. DHL knows...but it's happening

ah those vans rides to ILN what fun !

Industry Strnd
10-16-2018, 01:10 PM
I know it makes no sense but everyone is talking about it...Except Joe Hete...

Hete's latest comment to a crew member was of course I see a lot of activity around the old sort building, but that doesn't mean I know what's going on...

Come on Joe... spill the beans.. of course ABX,ATI or ATLAS have no idea who the players are, and why Amazon is waiting is anyone guess. DHL knows...but it's happening

ah those vans rides to ILN what fun !

Move along nothing to see here. ABX cannot fly and additional planes until they cave per soper which they will not and kiss DHL contract goodbye. Cause Soaper will try threaten losing it .....or they won't pay and again they can go pound sand. Pay the industry rate or give it away! The hayride is over ATSG.

nitefr8dog
10-16-2018, 02:49 PM
I know it makes no sense but everyone is talking about it...Except Joe Hete...

Hete's latest comment to a crew member was of course I see a lot of activity around the old sort building, but that doesn't mean I know what's going on...

Come on Joe... spill the beans.. of course ABX,ATI or ATLAS have no idea who the players are, and why Amazon is waiting is anyone guess. DHL knows...but it's happening

ah those vans rides to ILN what fun !
He probably does not have a clue...just look at what has been going on with the airline. It seems like he is not hitting on all cylinders any more....he's no spring chicken

JustOvIt
10-18-2018, 04:30 AM
scheduling playing games on how they assign JRM assignments...

schedulers admit I did not want to assign trip as it was built but soapers fledgling PF said no

past practice JOE... did you not learn from your mistakes in 16 !

Just say No to JRM ...grow some

nitefr8dog
10-18-2018, 08:33 AM
scheduling playing games on how they assign JRM assignments...

schedulers admit I did not want to assign trip as it was built but soapers fledgling PF said no

past practice JOE... did you not learn from your mistakes in 16 !

Just say No to JRM ...grow some
Joe? Again he does not know who we are unless the airplanes don't move. We are nothing in his overall plan

JustOvIt
10-25-2018, 02:55 AM
so abx installed a new phone system past couple days. They sent out emails about disruptions...

they sent out emails with temporary numbers to use..

guess what.. not only did the temporary numbers not work but several key staff members received new phone numbers ... you know like scheduling....

did the idiots tell the pilot group oh here are the new numbers

NO you just can't make this sh.t up!

motorclutch
10-25-2018, 04:26 AM
I for one will not be contacting scheduling!

JustOvIt
10-26-2018, 06:16 PM
Hete in Seattle this week

post amongst yourselves...

sixpack
10-27-2018, 02:46 PM
Whatís he doing in Seattle?

nitefr8dog
10-27-2018, 03:41 PM
Whatís he doing in Seattle?
Begging....

JustOvIt
10-27-2018, 07:06 PM
something is happening in ILN against all common sense....

kolt66
10-27-2018, 07:41 PM
something is happening in ILN against all common sense....

And what is that? A buyout?

woog315
10-27-2018, 07:55 PM
And what is that? A buyout?

I'm sure he's talking about Amazon restarting a sort in ILN, which according to several *non-pilot* sources is a done deal. I feel sorry for the people in ILN... and ONT... and PVD and all the other places that decent hard working people have been screwed over by this constantly changing amazon system. It's going to result in no one worth a **** wanting to work for them, but they don't seem to care. They'll probably get away with it and manage to find workers because they are big enough, but it sure is demoralizing to be a part of.

JustOvIt
10-27-2018, 07:55 PM
and see all the activity around the old sort building.. honestly
the ILN community is not going to be receptive to another come work for us story at min wage pay...

makes no sense how this will be spun...

when will the players be announced is the question...

MarkThyme
10-27-2018, 10:25 PM
Whatís he doing in Seattle?

Hmmm...yes...what is he doing in Seattle? Why would he be there? What business does ATSG have in Seattle? Let me think for a minute. Iím sure Iíll come up with it.

MarkThyme
10-27-2018, 10:31 PM
They'll probably get away with it and manage to find workers because they are big enough, but it sure is demoralizing to be a part of.

In what way are you ďa part ofĒ it? Are you one of those guys with the Prime Air bag tags?

woog315
10-28-2018, 06:20 AM
In what way are you ďa part ofĒ it? Are you one of those guys with the Prime Air bag tags?

Stop being obtuse, anyone who works in any capacity for them (it's contractors at nearly every level) sees what is going on. And no, I don't have a prime bag tag or work for ATI (not that it matters)

MarkThyme
10-28-2018, 09:33 PM
Stop being obtuse, anyone who works in any capacity for them (it's contractors at nearly every level) sees what is going on. And no, I don't have a prime bag tag or work for ATI (not that it matters)

I'm hardly being obtuse. I'm no more a "part of" Amazon than I am of any other company that pays for the services of my employer. That's the knock on the guys with the Amazon Prime bag tags, is it not? I don't identify in any way with the companies that do business with my employer, and within certain limits, I really don't care who it is. I'm just a guy doing a job and drawing a paycheck.

No Land 3
10-29-2018, 06:43 PM
Talking to Boeing?

nitefr8dog
10-30-2018, 04:37 AM
Getting fresh fish?

Birdsmash
10-30-2018, 08:14 AM
Legal weed?

nitefr8dog
10-30-2018, 09:04 AM
Legal weed?
That would explain some of the decisions and the way things have been run lately...

Industry Strnd
11-01-2018, 12:08 AM
I wonder if ATSG will see how Soapers actions could shut down the airline?

JustOvIt
11-02-2018, 09:16 AM
Asks their employees what would you say about AA in just three words 3

Story is on FlightAware

Oh my can you imagine if Soapy or Hete asked us

Hereís mine

Greed, Dysfunctional , Toxic

Hang10
11-02-2018, 09:45 AM
Asks their employees what would you say about AA in just three words 3

Story is on FlightAware

Oh my can you imagine if Soapy or Hete asked us

Hereís mine

Greed, Dysfunctional , Toxic

I thought TOXIC should have been first and in caps! Biggest ****hole in Aviation now!

C7fr8dog
11-02-2018, 06:34 PM
The incompetence continues. In the current economy ABX is now down to 21 aircraft from the 28 listed on APC. As every other airline is hiring and growing ABX just wants to play the whipsaw game. Stall stall stall negotiation is managements game along with continually delaying any chance of labor peace.

nitefr8dog
11-02-2018, 06:40 PM
The incompetence continues. In the current economy ABX is now down to 21 aircraft from the 28 listed on APC. As every other airline is hiring and growing ABX just wants to play the whipsaw game. Stall stall stall negotiation is managements game along with continually delaying any chance of labor peace.
This is news?

C7fr8dog
11-02-2018, 06:51 PM
This is news?
Ya. A 25% reduction in the fleet that the ABX APC home page shows is news. Bad news.

JustOvIt
11-02-2018, 06:56 PM
TO MALONEY , TO ABX

His BS pep talks , WAKE UP FOLKS

Just stop !

ke4lir
11-02-2018, 11:46 PM
Delay, Deny, until they die!

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

nitefr8dog
11-03-2018, 05:55 AM
Ya. A 25% reduction in the fleet that the ABX APC home page shows is news. Bad news.
Do you really think anybody relies on information published or printed on APC as actual or factual? If so they are complete idiots. All the threads about ABX for the last 2 yrs have been about its slow death and winding down. It would be a surprise that ABX is now operating fewer aircraft? Wow.

nitefr8dog
11-04-2018, 03:29 PM
Why would amazon or dhl want a passenger airline ?

But you are correct? Maybe Hete knows heís losing the DHL contract and found an easy revenue replacement, well additional income .
Let's hope it turns out better than the ATI/Capitol purchase that was a total money pit. All their book of business lost shortly after and nothing but junk airplanes requiring a total refleet. Lost millions for years...

Bungalow
11-04-2018, 07:21 PM
It has nothing to do with passengers.

It has much to do with Amazon / DHL

ABX days are numbered

Those are my three observations. Theyíre worth what you paid for them

JustOvIt
11-05-2018, 10:31 AM
Better wake up

negotiations this past week went backwards!!
I know surprise surprise

Thought just maybe not having the lawyers and the chief idiot soap around was going to be a positive step forward

NOT

nitefr8dog
11-05-2018, 12:15 PM
Better wake up

negotiations this past week went backwards!!
I know surprise surprise

Thought just maybe not having the lawyers and the chief idiot soap around was going to be a positive step forward

NOT
Wake up to what? Pretty sure every pilot at ABX knows by now there will be no new contract.
Did you really expect some meaningful negotiations to take place..really?

Hang10
11-05-2018, 05:50 PM
Everybody hates Soapass team! The end is closer! Evan the Medation Board hates them! Lol. Time to roll up The sleeves and get ready!

MarkThyme
11-05-2018, 06:25 PM
Evan the Medation Board hates them!

Who is Evan the Mediation Board? Is he any relation to Roger the Shrubber?

ke4lir
11-05-2018, 06:47 PM
Who is Evan the Mediation Board? Is he any relation to Roger the Shrubber?He cut down the largest tree in the forest, with a Herring!

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

JustOvIt
11-16-2018, 08:40 AM
We get an email that ABX will be providing free coffee turkey morning

WAKE UP corporate america offers free
Coffee to its employees 24/7

TOXIC!!!

MarkThyme
11-16-2018, 12:06 PM
We get an email that ABX will be providing free coffee turkey morning

WAKE UP corporate america offers free
Coffee to its employees 24/7

TOXIC!!!

Read the e-mail again. Free coffee starts the 23rd and continues through Christmas.

If you're going to complain (and let's be honest - that's pretty much your entire reason for being here), you should at least complain accurately. Lazy, sloppy whingeing is the worst kind of whingeing.

JustOvIt
11-16-2018, 01:05 PM
You are correct

So they are cheap bast.... the rest of the year

JustOvIt
11-19-2018, 07:37 PM
without a job... because its sooooo toxic

cheers Soapy!

hope your HR cheerleader keep's sending out emails, let your friends know we are interviewing ...lmao

MarkThyme
11-19-2018, 11:22 PM
without a job... because its sooooo toxic


If working at ABX is the worst thing you've ever experienced, and you have reached the point where you just can't even, I submit to you that your life before ABX has been too easy, and you are probably ill-prepared to handle anything else.

That said, I'm 95% certain that this isn't what you're making it out to be. One new-hire quitting in the face of an impending training failure is not a strong indicator of workplace toxicity. That ABX is unable to hire qualified pilots is bad enough without trying to twist it into a baseless commentary on the working conditions there.

ACMItrash
11-21-2018, 11:27 AM
If working at ABX is the worst thing you've ever experienced, and you have reached the point where you just can't even, I submit to you that your life before ABX has been too easy, and you are probably ill-prepared to handle anything else.

That said, I'm 95% certain that this isn't what you're making it out to be. One new-hire quitting in the face of an impending training failure is not a strong indicator of workplace toxicity. That ABX is unable to hire qualified pilots is bad enough without trying to twist it into a baseless commentary on the working conditions there.
I guess you didnt read the survey results did you? 50% plan to quit, 80% would not recommend it to a friend to work at abx. You must be management type trying anything to find a qualified pilot to rope into working for a company that has delayed a new contract for 4 years. Prove that wrong! That's a fact!

ACMItrash
11-21-2018, 11:30 AM
If working at ABX is the worst thing you've ever experienced, and you have reached the point where you just can't even, I submit to you that your life before ABX has been too easy, and you are probably ill-prepared to handle anything else.

That said, I'm 95% certain that this isn't what you're making it out to be. One new-hire quitting in the face of an impending training failure is not a strong indicator of workplace toxicity. That ABX is unable to hire qualified pilots is bad enough without trying to twist it into a baseless commentary on the working conditions there.
Maybe you're 1 of the 2 pilots that said they support the current leadership?

2 pilots lol

MarkThyme
11-21-2018, 01:47 PM
Maybe you're 1 of the 2 pilots that said they support the current leadership?


No, I am not.

MarkThyme
11-21-2018, 04:53 PM
I guess you didnt read the survey results did you? 50% plan to quit, 80% would not recommend it to a friend to work at abx. You must be management type trying anything to find a qualified pilot to rope into working for a company that has delayed a new contract for 4 years. Prove that wrong! That's a fact!

Let's try this again. Maybe I should have quoted your post with its title so that it would be more clear.

Your contention (title included) is that "folks are quitting without a job... because its sooooo toxic".

My response was that if you're leaving this place without another job lined up (which we all know is something you just don't do in this business unless you're planning to get out entirely) because you think that this is simply THE WORST JOB, LIKE, EVAR, then you're probably a bit too snowflakish for this business and for life in general, because whatever the issues might be at ABX, they are not so bad that the average well-adjusted adult is going to run screaming out the door.

I further stated with 95% confidence that you were making your claim on the basis of one new-hire who quit in the face of an impending training failure, which would tend to undermine your blanket statement that pilots are simply leaving without regard to future employment because they just can't stand it anymore. That was just an educated guess based on things I hear and things I can see, but now I'm going to assume I was correct.

If you're going to make an argument, base it on something solid. Like I said in my previous reply, it's bad enough that ABX is reduced to hiring pilots who can't make it through training (and even using "pilots" in the plural is overstating it at this point unless there have been others that I don't know about). You could have just said that. It would be difficult to argue against it, because it has the benefit of being true. But a hyperbolic pronouncement based on the twisting of a single quit-before-failure into "folks are leaving without a job... because its sooooo toxic" is just weak, and does more to discredit you than to highlight the real frustrations that exist among the ABX pilot group.

I read the survey results. I participated in the survey. I'm one of those who has applications out there and is planning to leave (when I have another job lined up). None of the questions asked if anyone was planning to just up and leave without someplace to go.

And can we just stop with the "management troll" responses now? That's one of the stupidest tropes out there. "You disagree with me so you MUST be management!" It's just dumb. Do better.

ACMItrash
11-22-2018, 03:32 AM
Let's try this again. Maybe I should have quoted your post with its title so that it would be more clear.

Your contention (title included) is that "folks are quitting without a job... because its sooooo toxic".

My response was that if you're leaving this place without another job lined up (which we all know is something you just don't do in this business unless you're planning to get out entirely) because you think that this is simply THE WORST JOB, LIKE, EVAR, then you're probably a bit too snowflakish for this business and for life in general, because whatever the issues might be at ABX, they are not so bad that the average well-adjusted adult is going to run screaming out the door.

I further stated with 95% confidence that you were making your claim on the basis of one new-hire who quit in the face of an impending training failure, which would tend to undermine your blanket statement that pilots are simply leaving without regard to future employment because they just can't stand it anymore. That was just an educated guess based on things I hear and things I can see, but now I'm going to assume I was correct.

If you're going to make an argument, base it on something solid. Like I said in my previous reply, it's bad enough that ABX is reduced to hiring pilots who can't make it through training (and even using "pilots" in the plural is overstating it at this point unless there have been others that I don't know about). You could have just said that. It would be difficult to argue against it, because it has the benefit of being true. But a hyperbolic pronouncement based on the twisting of a single quit-before-failure into "folks are leaving without a job... because its sooooo toxic" is just weak, and does more to discredit you than to highlight the real frustrations that exist among the ABX pilot group.

I read the survey results. I participated in the survey. I'm one of those who has applications out there and is planning to leave (when I have another job lined up). None of the questions asked if anyone was planning to just up and leave without someplace to go.

And can we just stop with the "management troll" responses now? That's one of the stupidest tropes out there. "You disagree with me so you MUST be management!" It's just dumb. Do better.

I'd say this post is intresting because I never made a claim someone quit having no where to go. That was someone else. But if you can look at the 50+ pilots who left and get a clue abx has no idea how to treat pilots then you must not see it!

We had plenty of pilots quit and go back to their old job and even leave far jobs that pay less. Argue that point!

Otterbox
11-22-2018, 05:25 AM
I guess you didnt read the survey results did you? 50% plan to quit, 80% would not recommend it to a friend to work at abx. You must be management type trying anything to find a qualified pilot to rope into working for a company that has delayed a new contract for 4 years. Prove that wrong! That's a fact!

The telling number from that survey are the % of folks that had had their apps out last year at 8.33%. Most of the rest is fluff.

MarkThyme
11-22-2018, 07:51 AM
I'd say this post is intresting because I never made a claim someone quit having no where to go. That was someone else. But if you can look at the 50+ pilots who left and get a clue abx has no idea how to treat pilots then you must not see it!

We had plenty of pilots quit and go back to their old job and even leave far jobs that pay less. Argue that point!

My mistake. I thought I was responding to JustOvIt, who made the original claim. You all look the same.

The argument wasn't against any claim that pilots are leaving for other jobs or for their previous jobs. I know plenty who have left, and I'm one of the ones with applications out. The claim that was made was "folks" (note the plural) "are quitting without a job... because its sooooo toxic", which I thought was a ridiculous claim to make, because the premise is entirely untrue. I don't know of a single pilot who has quit without another job offer simply because they just couldn't stand it at ABX anymore.

Despite the mistaken identification, I thought what I wrote was pretty clear. It wasn't something I dashed off in 30 seconds. You guys need to work on reading comprehension.

ACMItrash
11-22-2018, 09:14 AM
My mistake. I thought I was responding to JustOvIt, who made the original claim. You all look the same.

The argument wasn't against any claim that pilots are leaving for other jobs or for their previous jobs. I know plenty who have left, and I'm one of the ones with applications out. The claim that was made was "folks" (note the plural) "are quitting without a job... because its sooooo toxic", which I thought was a ridiculous claim to make, because the premise is entirely untrue. I don't know of a single pilot who has quit without another job offer simply because they just couldn't stand it at ABX anymore.

Despite the mistaken identification, I thought what I wrote was pretty clear. It wasn't something I dashed off in 30 seconds. You guys need to work on reading comprehension.

There were plenty who quit that says it all. And more to come. Hopefully including those who get on here and support management abusing the rla. Are you that check airmen that everybody says is a real tool to fly with?

MarkThyme
11-22-2018, 06:24 PM
Are you that check airmen that everybody says is a real tool to fly with?

Not as far as I know.

Are you that FO that everybody says is a real tool to fly with?

Tumbl3weed
11-27-2018, 03:57 PM
Canít wait to see how ATSG tries to spin ABXís lack of 4th quarter revenue during the next Earnings Call. JH should invite Soaper to the table and have him tap dance around it.

nitefr8dog
11-27-2018, 05:11 PM
Canít wait to see how ATSG tries to spin ABXís lack of 4th quarter revenue during the next Earnings Call. JH should invite Soaper to the table and have him tap dance around it.
Nobody cares....

Jurassic Jet
11-27-2018, 06:19 PM
Nobody cares....

^^^This^^^

Sudsy is JH's puppet anyways. He does nothing without his knowledge and/or direction from him. Probably can't even pass gas without permission.

Until the same tired analysts grow a set and start asking real questions rather than softballs, the earnings calls will remain a joke IMO.

nitefr8dog
11-28-2018, 02:34 AM
^^^This^^^

Sudsy is JH's puppet anyways. He does nothing without his knowledge and/or direction from him. Probably can't even pass gas without permission.

Until the same tired analysts grow a set and start asking real questions rather than softballs, the earnings calls will remain a joke IMO.
Perfectly said...nobody wants to stir the pot...

motorclutch
11-28-2018, 04:43 AM
ATSG is the golden piggy bank for Joe Hete, Quint Turner and the rest of the company officers.....board of directors. No dividends paid to shareholders. Just a cash churn for bonuses. The shell game might be coming to an end.

JustOvIt
12-03-2018, 03:37 AM
So yes a new hire quit before his 100 hours and yes without a job and yes Mark I waited to reply to your post till he pulled the trigger

TOXIC

MarkThyme
12-03-2018, 12:20 PM
So yes a new hire quit before his 100 hours and yes without a job and yes Mark I waited to reply to your post till he pulled the trigger

TOXIC

Wow, that's great. You're awesome.

The good news, then, is that nobody needs to stay in this TOXIC place. If no-time new-hires are leaving without jobs, so can you.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

ACMItrash
12-05-2018, 05:39 PM
Wow, that's great. You're awesome.

The good news, then, is that nobody needs to stay in this TOXIC place. If no-time new-hires are leaving without jobs, so can you.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Coming from a line check pilot. New hires beware this is a guy who you will have to fly with. Instead of trying to get a contract he wants to convince you that it's not that bad. But then tell you you don't know how to fly.

MarkThyme
12-05-2018, 09:31 PM
Coming from a line check pilot. New hires beware this is a guy who you will have to fly with. Instead of trying to get a contract he wants to convince you that it's not that bad. But then tell you you don't know how to fly.

Now this is funny for a number of reasons. You have no idea.

Don't smear the name of any check airman based on anything I say, especially when you so badly misinterpret what I'm saying.

Airplaneflyer11
12-12-2018, 04:19 PM
Canít wait to see how ATSG tries to spin ABXís lack of 4th quarter revenue during the next Earnings Call. JH should invite Soaper to the table and have him tap dance around it.


Unfortunately I'd have to agree with the others that said JH and the others could care less. This is all part of the plan. I know that's crazy talk for ATSG to have a plan. None the less they are slowly moving us onto reserve one month at a time at the least and who knows what February and March will look like when it comes to flying lines in the bid pack. We are making numbers no matter what. They may not be 2016 numbers but still. They make numbers and don't touch most of our contract that inflates pay for us. It's a double win for them.



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