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View Full Version : Get off cell phone, do your job.


minivan
09-01-2018, 04:49 AM
To the [XXX] FO at gate [XX] in [XXX] around [XXX] on [XXX], your passengers would appreciate you staying off your phone long enough to actually look at things like wings and tires during your exterior inspection.

People see stuff....


Check Complete
09-01-2018, 05:45 AM
To the [XXX] your passengers would appreciate you staying off your phone long enough to actually look at things like wings and tires during your exterior inspection.

People see stuff....

Maybe the FO was getting re flowed by CS?

Maybe the FO was on the phone about a family emergency?

You don't know the first thing about what the FO was talking about, yet you call him out?

GuardPolice
09-01-2018, 05:51 AM
Maybe the FO was getting re flowed by CS?

Maybe the FO was on the phone about a family emergency?

You don't know the first thing about what the FO was talking about, yet you call him out?


Even if those hypotheticals are true, there’s still no reason to be dealing with it while doing the walk-around. Go to a more discreet place, handle your business there then focus on the preflight.


minivan
09-01-2018, 05:53 AM
I know he wasn't doing what he was supposed to be doing. Raise the bar, don't lower it. I know what we saw. Sorry you don't like it.

ajaf1656
09-01-2018, 06:18 AM
A few reasons to use a phone on a walk-around:

1. To bring up a release and check fuel so you can talk to the fueler.
2. Checking weather in regards to fuel requirements.
3. Photograph an abnormality to show the captain.
4. Looking up the 6th different jet-bridge code you've used that day.

Not acceptable:

1. Social Media.



The phone isn't the problem. The problem is a pilot not doing their job and inspecting the aircraft.

Jefferson
09-01-2018, 06:20 AM
Even if those hypotheticals are true, there’s still no reason to be dealing with it while doing the walk-around. Go to a more discreet place, handle your business there then focus on the preflight.

Correct.. If you have a call you have to take... take it.. THEN do the walk around.

Most Ops. Specs. address phones on walk around

nkweb
09-01-2018, 06:22 AM
No excuses period. You #1 job on the walk around is to inspect the aircraft for damage. Then you can play with your phone. Amazing people will argue this point.

ajaf1656
09-01-2018, 06:31 AM
No excuses period. You #1 job on the walk around is to inspect the aircraft for damage. Then you can play with your phone. Amazing people will argue this point.


There is nothing to be amazed about. Nobody has stated that someone shouldn't perform their duties or that "playing with a phone" is acceptable.

rickair7777
09-01-2018, 07:26 AM
Maybe the FO was getting re flowed by CS?

Maybe the FO was on the phone about a family emergency?

You don't know the first thing about what the FO was talking about, yet you call him out?

Doesn't matter, policy nowdays is to to not do the walk with your phone out (unless maybe taking a picture).

It looks very bad to the traveling public.

If it's CS, they can wait until after (or before) the walk.

If it's a hypothetical "family emergency", he should go inside to deal with that and probably call off the trip. I've seen plenty of people talking on their phone while doing the walk around, but I bet exactly none of them were actually dealing with a family emergency :rolleyes:

I could do a perfect walk around while talking on the phone (well most conversations anyway), but the problem is the perception. The perception IS the reality in this case.

The traveling public may not adore and worship you anymore, but you ARE still considered something special, and it WILL get their attention if you do something wrong in public. And you'll probably end up on youtube (and that video clip will be diligently saved in a folder on a computer in ATL).

WesternSkies
09-01-2018, 07:32 AM
While there are work reasons to pull your phone out from what I’ve seen lately from headphones to nonstandard jackets I’d be inclined to think social media.
I look at my phone because I can’t remember the code typically.

Also how many people think we are taking selfies with the surface. Haha

savedbythevnav
09-01-2018, 07:52 AM
A few reasons to use a phone on a walk-around:

1. To bring up a release and check fuel so you can talk to the fueler.
2. Checking weather in regards to fuel requirements.
3. Photograph an abnormality to show the captain.
4. Looking up the 6th different jet-bridge code you've used that day.

Not acceptable:

1. Social Media.



The phone isn't the problem. The problem is a pilot not doing their job and inspecting the aircraft.

This. However, if I have to "whip it out" I make sure to try to go somewhere more discreet (behind a tug, bag belt, etc.)

rickair7777
09-01-2018, 07:57 AM
This. However, if I have to "whip it out" I make sure to try to go somewhere more discreet (behind a tug, bag belt, etc.)

This. There are good reasons to use the phone. But the public will assume the worst. I use for jetway codes but look it up at the top of the stairs, not while doing the walk.

Check Complete
09-01-2018, 08:03 AM
To me there are much bigger "fish to fry" than worrying about someone on their phone....

To each his own.

GuardPolice
09-01-2018, 08:37 AM
To me there are much bigger "fish to fry" than worrying about someone on their phone....

To each his own.


It doesn’t matter what you think. It only matters what your FOM says about it.

TheAshtar
09-01-2018, 10:47 AM
No reason whatsoever to be “on your phone” doing a walk around. Period. This.

Now I’m not perfect and I’ve slipped up on occasion. I’m sure I got caught up in a stupid argument with the ex while I was supposed to be INSPECTing the aircraft for airworthiness. I know I took a call from another pilot friend once to hear him say, “what the hell are you doing on your phone!” Lol. He was in he plane at the next gate watching. And I also know that I wasn’t able to do as good of a job as I could have if I did not have the phone for distraction.

Why would anyone answer a call from CS while on duty? I never answer from 378*. Period. Never! That’s what voicemail’s for.

Don’t do it. Seriously. The best thing that can happen to you is you miss a bald tire, worn out brakes, a hydraulic leak, or a INOP nav light. The worst is you end up on Good Morning America.

jungle driver
09-01-2018, 11:12 AM
A few reasons to use a phone on a walk-around:

1. To bring up a release and check fuel so you can talk to the fueler.
2. Checking weather in regards to fuel requirements.
3. Photograph an abnormality to show the captain.
4. Looking up the 6th different jet-bridge code you've used that day.

Not acceptable:

1. Social Media.



The phone isn't the problem. The problem is a pilot not doing their job and inspecting the aircraft.

1. look at the release before you go out or tell the fueler you will call ops with the fuel load as soon as you get back inside.
2. I don't know anyone that is changing their fuel load do to looking at weather standing outside talking to the fuel. has to be coordinated with dispatch.
3. just tell the captain, they are more than likely going to go down and look at it themselves anyway no need for a picture.
4. just ask the ramper.

like the others have said perception is everything and safety is #1. leave your phone in your flight bag when you go outside. anything/anyone can wait 5 minutes till you get back in the cockpit. I have heard of a few new FO's at different big 5's carriers being terminated due to inappropriate phone usage. might want to work on building good habits now.

word302
09-01-2018, 11:43 AM
1. look at the release before you go out or tell the fueler you will call ops with the fuel load as soon as you get back inside.
2. I don't know anyone that is changing their fuel load do to looking at weather standing outside talking to the fuel. has to be coordinated with dispatch.
3. just tell the captain, they are more than likely going to go down and look at it themselves anyway no need for a picture.
4. just ask the ramper.

like the others have said perception is everything and safety is #1. leave your phone in your flight bag when you go outside. anything/anyone can wait 5 minutes till you get back in the cockpit. I have heard of a few new FO's at different big 5's carriers being terminated due to inappropriate phone usage. might want to work on building good habits now.

1. Sometimes I forget
2. Calling DX is a waste of time cuz they literally don't care
3. Agreed
4. Sometimes rampers are nowhere to be found

When I take my phone out, I stop with the walk-around, do what I need to do, put the phone away, continue the walk-around.

Things don't happen the same way at every shop. Don't jump to conclusions.

OOfff
09-01-2018, 12:16 PM
Why not write a letter to their chief or pro standards instead of shouting into the void all over the Internet about it?

word302
09-01-2018, 12:20 PM
Why not write a letter to their chief or pro standards instead of shouting into the void all over the Internet about it?

Or instead of being a tool, have a conversation with them.

minivan
09-01-2018, 02:57 PM
Why not write a letter to their chief or pro standards instead of shouting into the void all over the Internet about it?

Shouting into the void... not sure what you're talking about. The FAA guy sitting next to me on my deadhead (great guy it seemed, BTW) brought it to my attention. I just shook my head. Kind of like I'm doing right now.

minivan
09-01-2018, 03:05 PM
Or instead of being a tool, have a conversation with them.

Sir, I am not a tool. I was on a deadhead flight at the gate looking out of my window having a conversation with the gentleman seated next to me. I don't know this pilot from Adam nor did I have a "chance to speak with him." Hey, we all make mistakes, but there's a line in the sand which is considered "negligence." This line we should not cross. Sorry some of you guys feel otherwise.

BrewCity
09-01-2018, 03:44 PM
Sir, I am not a tool. I was on a deadhead flight at the gate looking out of my window having a conversation with the gentleman seated next to me. I don't know this pilot from Adam nor did I have a "chance to speak with him." Hey, we all make mistakes, but there's a line in the sand which is considered "negligence." This line we should not cross. Sorry some of you guys feel otherwise.

I don’t have a dog in this fight and I agree that the FO in question was probably in the wrong by pervasively using his cell phone during the walk around. However, publicly posting date, time, and location and thereby making this FO easily identifiable is not in the spirit of any professional standards committee I know of.

ajaf1656
09-01-2018, 03:47 PM
1. look at the release before you go out or tell the fueler you will call ops with the fuel load as soon as you get back inside.
2. I don't know anyone that is changing their fuel load do to looking at weather standing outside talking to the fuel. has to be coordinated with dispatch.
3. just tell the captain, they are more than likely going to go down and look at it themselves anyway no need for a picture.
4. just ask the ramper.

like the others have said perception is everything and safety is #1. leave your phone in your flight bag when you go outside. anything/anyone can wait 5 minutes till you get back in the cockpit. I have heard of a few new FO's at different big 5's carriers being terminated due to inappropriate phone usage. might want to work on building good habits now.

No, I'll continue to do things the way I do them because there are more important things than worrying about some creative and bored coworker imagining what passengers may or may not think. I'm not going to waste time because someone who doesn't understand the spirit of the appearance and behavior standards believes that people couldn't comprehend why a pilot might pull out a phone while having a discussion with the fueler. I'm not going to wait alone outside the jet bridge while passengers are boarding hoping a ramper happens along. There are a lot of times they are not there. I told a captain about a missing fastener on my jet the other day and he went to look at it. It was sad watching him wander around looking for it when I told him precisely what panel it was on and where it was. I could have saved about 5 minutes of wasted time if I taken a photo, but I thought he'd take my word for it and make a quick call to MX.

I have a job to do and my phone is a tool that I occasionally use. I never use my phone while performing my preflight inspection. I stop, use it and put it away before carrying on. I conduct myself in a professional manor and that is indeed possible while using a phone to do my job.

word302
09-01-2018, 03:47 PM
Sir, I am not a tool. I was on a deadhead flight at the gate looking out of my window having a conversation with the gentleman seated next to me. I don't know this pilot from Adam nor did I have a "chance to speak with him." Hey, we all make mistakes, but there's a line in the sand which is considered "negligence." This line we should not cross. Sorry some of you guys feel otherwise.

So you've been in the business for a few months and think that contacting someone's chief or pro-stans should be the first course of action? That would be toolish. You have a conversation. If that type of behavior continues then it may be time to escalate the matter. A little diplomacy and mentoring is how we do it in this business. And yes, blasting exact flight information on a public forum does indeed make you a tool. There are proper ways to handle this kind of thing. This ain't it.

Check Complete
09-01-2018, 05:00 PM
Shouting into the void... not sure what you're talking about. The FAA guy sitting next to me on my deadhead (great guy it seemed, BTW) brought it to my attention. I just shook my head. Kind of like I'm doing right now.

Putting a guilty verdict on a person without knowing all the facts.

That's what these forums were for.

OOfff
09-01-2018, 06:19 PM
Shouting into the void... not sure what you're talking about. The FAA guy sitting next to me on my deadhead (great guy it seemed, BTW) brought it to my attention. I just shook my head. Kind of like I'm doing right now.

Why should we care? Do something about it instead of whining to unrelated people online

WesternSkies
09-01-2018, 07:01 PM
Fake news PSA new-hire.
We had one plane go out of that gate yesterday and it wasn't at 6.

minivan
09-01-2018, 08:16 PM
Fake news PSA new-hire.
We had one plane go out of that gate yesterday and it wasn't at 6.

You're right. Fake news.

Peace.

minivan
09-01-2018, 08:25 PM
So you've been in the business for a few months and think that contacting someone's chief or pro-stans should be the first course of action? That would be toolish. You have a conversation. If that type of behavior continues then it may be time to escalate the matter. A little diplomacy and mentoring is how we do it in this business. And yes, blasting exact flight information on a public forum does indeed make you a tool. There are proper ways to handle this kind of thing. This ain't it.

Well, your assumption about my background is just wrong. But in the future, I agree with you, I won't post info like this. Everybody have a good work week.

sailingfun
09-01-2018, 09:51 PM
Cellphone use is prohibited on every US airline ramp for safety reasons.

Blackhawk
09-02-2018, 05:57 AM
Hey, if you don’t see a problem with using your phone on a walk around go for it. The good news is that if an FAA Safety Inspector sees you you’ll have a scenario to discuss in future interviews. If you get an interview with a violation in your records.
And yes, it has happened.

Paperboi
09-02-2018, 11:24 AM
Seriously dude? that's a good time to be doing exterior inspection? Perception is everything.


Maybe the FO was getting re flowed by CS?

Maybe the FO was on the phone about a family emergency?

You don't know the first thing about what the FO was talking about, yet you call him out?

tm602
09-02-2018, 12:09 PM
How did we ever get by doing preflights without cell phones before?! I swear you guys treat that damned piece of plastic and glass like its a life support system! Grow ** up, you have a big boy job, act like a big boy and play with your toys another time.

savedbythevnav
09-02-2018, 12:17 PM
How did we ever get by doing preflights without cell phones before?! I swear you guys treat that damned piece of plastic and glass like its a life support system! Grow the * up, you have a big boy job, act like a big boy and play with your toys another time.

There is a distinction between using technology for it's professional, intended uses and just being a millennial twat.

Non-definitive, childish statements such as "grow the * up" are both useless, and in your case, ironic.

tm602
09-03-2018, 10:19 AM
There is a distinction between using technology for it's professional, intended uses and just being a millennial twat.

Non-definitive, childish statements such as "grow the * up" are both useless, and in your case, ironic.

Please explain how expecting someone to focus on their JOB for a couple minutes doing a preflight is asking too much and how it is a childish expectation. You guys seem to have no idea that you are in the public eye and reflect your airline.

tm602
09-03-2018, 07:11 PM
Please explain how expecting someone to focus on their JOB for a couple minutes doing a preflight is asking too much and how it is a childish expectation. You guys seem to have no idea that you are in the public eye and reflect your airline.
And remember, legitimate or not, the public's view matters because they buy the tickets that keep YOU employed. And when/if you go on strike, good luck getting any public support (which does make a difference in pressuring your MGT to settle) when they remember you as the "airline whose pilots talk on the phone instead of checking things for safety". Like it or not, founded or not, that's how it works.

ajaf1656
09-03-2018, 08:16 PM
I bet these people who think that the public can't understand why a phone might be useful are the same people who think that having a boat captain hat and talking on the flight attendant's phone when addressing passengers makes them look really professional. You know what looks bad to the public? Fat slob pilots in line to get McDonnalds. I guarantee passengers would prefer their pilots at least pretend to be healthy than pretend that they don't know about cell phones.

Blackhawk
09-04-2018, 04:52 AM
I bet these people who think that the public can't understand why a phone might be useful are the same people who think that having a boat captain hat and talking on the flight attendant's phone when addressing passengers makes them look really professional. You know what looks bad to the public? Fat slob pilots in line to get McDonnalds. I guarantee passengers would prefer their pilots at least pretend to be healthy than pretend that they don't know about cell phones.

This goes beyond what the public thinks. The FAA could care less if you are a fat slob in line for McDonalds or if you use the FA’s PA for an announcement. If they catch you using a cell phone when you are not supposed to be using one, however, they will care. As I previously posted they have violated FOs (or at least given them letters), for using cell phones on wall arounds. And FOs on probation have been terminated for using cell phones at inappropriate times.
So feel free obdo as you wish and if called out by the FAA or your employer let us know how rationalization goes.

gojo
09-04-2018, 06:02 AM
I bet these people who think that the public can't understand why a phone might be useful are the same people who think that having a boat captain hat and talking on the flight attendant's phone when addressing passengers makes them look really professional. You know what looks bad to the public? Fat slob pilots in line to get McDonnalds. I guarantee passengers would prefer their pilots at least pretend to be healthy than pretend that they don't know about cell phones.

Well offering someone advice is one thing. But but to come on here and say “Grow the * up” like you’re perfect is another. And yes I know that wasn’t you

Rtmcfi
09-04-2018, 06:04 AM
I bet these people who think that the public can't understand why a phone might be useful are the same people who think that having a boat captain hat and talking on the flight attendant's phone when addressing passengers makes them look really professional. You know what looks bad to the public? Fat slob pilots in line to get McDonnalds. I guarantee passengers would prefer their pilots at least pretend to be healthy than pretend that they don't know about cell phones.

I don't think it has to be one ore the other. You can be healthy and put your phone in your pocket for the few minutes a walk-around takes. Or, you can have a big Mac in one hand and your phone in the other while occasionally glancing at the plane

tomgoodman
09-04-2018, 06:21 AM
Or, you can have a big Mac in one hand and your phone in the other while occasionally glancing at the plane

I tried that, but accidentally talked into the sandwich and bit the phone. :p

Blackhawk
09-04-2018, 06:22 AM
Well offering someone advice is one thing. But but to come on here and say “Grow the * up” like you’re perfect is another. And yes I know that wasn’t you

Well, many of us are not sure what to say to pilots who feel like they must look at their phones for the 2-5 minutes it takes to do a walk around when they are supposed o be looking at the airplane. Or can’t go an entire leg without turning on their phone and checking social media. Multitasking is a myth. Put the stupid things down.

ItnStln
09-04-2018, 06:27 AM
I tried that, but accidentally talked into the sandwich and bit the phone. :p

That would be funny!

TransWorld
09-04-2018, 09:07 AM
I tried that, but accidentally talked into the sandwich and bit the phone. :p

But you missed the blown tire.

ajaf1656
09-04-2018, 12:16 PM
So there are two things being discussed past each other here. The people who think phones look bad and the people who think it's a violation of the rules. It can be done in a professional way that doesn't violate the rules. If you are not performing your duties and are breaking the rules, I' not defending it. I'm defending the use of a cell phone as a tool to help do your job, not entertainment. Can anyone post a link to where the FAA says no cell phones?

If you are arguing that company policy forbids it for appearance reasons, it is about the same as discussing non approved lanyards.

gojo
09-04-2018, 01:14 PM
So there are two things being discussed past each other here. The people who think phones look bad and the people who think it's a violation of the rules. It can be done in a professional way that doesn't violate the rules. If you are not performing your duties and are breaking the rules, I' not defending it. I'm defending the use of a cell phone as a tool to help do your job, not entertainment. Can anyone post a link to where the FAA says no cell phones?

If you are arguing that company policy forbids it for appearance reasons, it is about the same as discussing non approved lanyards.

Now you’ve done it.... asking for facts huh?

Blackhawk
09-04-2018, 02:00 PM
So there are two things being discussed past each other here. The people who think phones look bad and the people who think it's a violation of the rules. It can be done in a professional way that doesn't violate the rules. If you are not performing your duties and are breaking the rules, I' not defending it. I'm defending the use of a cell phone as a tool to help do your job, not entertainment. Can anyone post a link to where the FAA says no cell phones?

If you are arguing that company policy forbids it for appearance reasons, it is about the same as discussing non approved lanyards.

Check your OM. It’s an FAA approved and signed document. Violating your FOM is tantamount to violating an FAR.

PotatoChip
09-04-2018, 02:10 PM
What if I’m keeping up with this very thread?? Is that acceptable?

Check Complete
09-04-2018, 02:25 PM
What if I'm looking up information on the bazillion bulletins I receive concerning the walk around itself?

What if we are on a 30 minute turn and there's a fuel load discrepancy?

I think the way to handle this type of thing would be to communicate with the person first and just maybe there's a reason that is sufficient for why they were on said phone, not hang them out for the world to see with dates, locations, time and gate info.

Blackhawk
09-04-2018, 02:27 PM
What if I’m keeping up with this very thread?? Is that acceptable?

Not for me to decide. Run that by the FAA if you get caught. I’m sure they will see your humor.
We’ve had some FO’s get caught by the FAA doing so- you never know when a Safety Inspector might be in a terminal. While I’m not privy to the outcome it was serious enough that our union and CPs felt compelled to remind pilots not to use cell phones in public unless necessary for operational issues.
But hey. You do what you want. One more spot at a major for me.

Simpsons
09-04-2018, 04:07 PM
When I was an FO I was standing outside the plane on my phone after I completed the walk around and was waiting for the fueler to finish up to check the door when a ramper came up to me and said I should know better because it was a fire hazard

rickair7777
09-04-2018, 04:18 PM
What if I'm looking up information on the bazillion bulletins I receive concerning the walk around itself?

What if we are on a 30 minute turn and there's a fuel load discrepancy?

I think the way to handle this type of thing would be to communicate with the person first and just maybe there's a reason that is sufficient for why they were on said phone, not hang them out for the world to see with dates, locations, time and gate info.

If you need to use the phone on the ramp, go ahead. But stop doing the walk around. That's what looks bad to feds, managers, and the public... walking around the plane sort of maybe glancing at stuff while talking on your phone.

No law against using your phone on the ramp, although it can be hard to hear sometimes.

The perception counts as much as anything.

sailingfun
09-04-2018, 04:25 PM
If you need to use the phone on the ramp, go ahead. But stop doing the walk around. That's what looks bad to feds, managers, and the public... walking around the plane sort of maybe glancing at stuff while talking on your phone.

No law against using your phone on the ramp, although it can be hard to hear sometimes.

The perception counts as much as anything.

Many if not all airports prohibit cellphone use on the ramps. It’s also a company policy at Delta.

GuardPolice
09-04-2018, 04:57 PM
Many if not all airports prohibit cellphone use on the ramps. It’s also a company policy at Delta.


Our company’s (Delta’s) policy allows for cell phone use on the ramp for operational needs but never within 10 feet of refueling equipment. Personal use on the ramp is forbidden of course.

ajaf1656
09-04-2018, 05:55 PM
Check your OM. It’s an FAA approved and signed document. Violating your FOM is tantamount to violating an FAR.

The FOM says you can use a cell phone in the cockpit during aircraft operations. I'm having trouble finding the part where it is more restrictive on cell phone use outside of the aircraft when not operating the aircraft.

Check Complete
09-04-2018, 06:53 PM
The FOM says you can use a cell phone in the cockpit during aircraft operations. I'm having trouble finding the part where it is more restrictive on cell phone use outside of the aircraft when not operating the aircraft.

Ya ajaf , I couldn't find it either.

And Ricky, I'm pretty sure I know who you are, and I've been flying longer than you've been alive. Maybe stifle the newbie advice?

I understand perception, but the OP really put the subject person in jeopardy with the time and location stuff not knowing all the facts....

Perception is subjective, somebody is always going to find fault with what you're doing....

RickRoss
09-04-2018, 08:11 PM
What if I’m following this post at cruise while on inflight WiFi? Just kidding...that’s stupid. I’m actually driving down I-5 south of Seattle, that’s okay right?

minivan
09-04-2018, 08:24 PM
Yea, I'm going to apologize for this if I hadn't already. I had the information removed several days ago after realizing it was in poor taste. Nevertheless, some of you guys are missing the forest for trees. The point is the inspection and not the phone. The inspection is the primary crewmember responsibility that must be accomplished. But, I'm not elaborating any further... absolute last post on the subject. I'm sorry I even posted it to begin with... no harm no foul, everybody just be good pilots and do their jobs. The end.

ShyGuy
09-04-2018, 08:26 PM
6 pages and no comments on cellphone camera flashlights during walkarounds?

ajaf1656
09-04-2018, 08:34 PM
Okay, now that we've settled that mess.... non-approved jackets that FO's use when it's raining and graffiti in the cockpit. Go!

PotatoChip
09-05-2018, 01:15 AM
Not for me to decide. Run that by the FAA if you get caught. I’m sure they will see your humor.
We’ve had some FO’s get caught by the FAA doing so- you never know when a Safety Inspector might be in a terminal. While I’m not privy to the outcome it was serious enough that our union and CPs felt compelled to remind pilots not to use cell phones in public unless necessary for operational issues.
But hey. You do what you want. One more spot at a major for me.

You seriously have no sense of humor.

rickair7777
09-05-2018, 06:23 AM
6 pages and no comments on cellphone camera flashlights during walkarounds?

OK, I've done that in a pinch. It's not really bright enough, and kills your battery, not a good daily solution.

But from a distance, using a cell phone as a flashlight looks like... using a flashlight. Talking on a cellphone looks like not doing your job.

tm602
09-05-2018, 06:33 AM
Well offering someone advice is one thing. But but to come on here and say “Grow the * up” like you’re perfect is another. And yes I know that wasn’t you

I think you missed the jist of my post. If someone can't let their precious phone sit for 5 minutes of the day and do the job they are paid for, they need to grow up.
And the previous poster, please tell me how a conversation on a cellphone while doing a half-effort walkaround is useful. I know of one operator with about 450 planes that had planes take off with the gear pins installed several times, how's that for preflight? Same one also had a guy walk into a static wick and have it embedded in his eye requiring an emergency surgery. Just one second of inattention and he turned right into it. The phone can wait.
Stop taking this like a little kid being told to eat his peas and think bigger than that. I could give a care if someone wants to wear the hat, or listens to music during cruise, but the preflight is a pretty big deal. Just do your darn job. They are paying you to do it. Have some adult work ethic and do it right.

ajaf1656
09-05-2018, 06:39 AM
OK, I've done that in a pinch. It's not really bright enough, and kills your battery, not a good daily solution.

But from a distance, using a cell phone as a flashlight looks like... using a flashlight. Talking on a cellphone looks like not doing your job.

Not bringing a working flashlight= actually failing to do your job.
Talking on your phone= maybe looking bad to some people while doing your job.

Nice logic.

rickair7777
09-05-2018, 07:45 AM
Not bringing a working flashlight= actually failing to do your job.
Talking on your phone= maybe looking bad to some people while doing your job.

Nice logic.

???

I didn't recommend not bringing a flashlight. Mine failed once, actually broke, spare battery and bulb didn't help that.

Talking on the phone will look bad if you're doing a walk around at the same time. If you're using your phone on the ramp I don't think that looks bad, long as you're not actually walking around the plane.

zondaracer
09-05-2018, 07:55 AM
The last time I was talking on my phone and on the ramp, Mx control was guiding me through the APU reset procedure in the back, then back to the flight deck to make sure everything was ok and signed off.

GuardPolice
09-05-2018, 08:32 AM
The last time I was talking on my phone and on the ramp, Mx control was guiding me through the APU reset procedure in the back, then back to the flight deck to make sure everything was ok and signed off.


This is an operational need and completely justifiable to the FAA.

rickair7777
09-05-2018, 09:35 AM
The last time I was talking on my phone and on the ramp, Mx control was guiding me through the APU reset procedure in the back, then back to the flight deck to make sure everything was ok and signed off.

I've done that too... about once a decade. That's not what we're talking about.

zondaracer
09-05-2018, 09:42 AM
I've done that too... about once a decade. That's not what we're talking about.

Yeah I was just trying to show a justifiable time to be on the phone. I had an FO recently and I had to tell him to put his phone away. We would get a flow delay and he’d whip the phone out and start texting. We would get to the gate and shut down, and he’d whip that phone out again when he could have been doing a walk around, helping with seat belts, or doing the FMS. It was really getting on my nerves.

Blackhawk
09-05-2018, 09:46 AM
Yeah I was just trying to show a justifiable time to be on the phone. I had an FO recently and I had to tell him to put his phone away. We would get a flow delay and he’d whip the phone out and start texting. We would get to the gate and shut down, and he’d whip that phone out again when he could have been doing a walk around, helping with seat belts, or doing the FMS. It was really getting on my nerves.

I kid you not I had an FO pull out his cell phone in cruise on a line check. I was... irritated.

ajaf1656
09-05-2018, 10:02 AM
How many nerds are wearing those Apple iWatches in the flight deck?

ajaf1656
09-05-2018, 10:06 AM
???

I didn't recommend not bringing a flashlight. Mine failed once, actually broke, spare battery and bulb didn't help that.

Talking on the phone will look bad if you're doing a walk around at the same time. If you're using your phone on the ramp I don't think that looks bad, long as you're actually walking around the plane.

Sorry, I thought you were one of the hardliners saying no phone is ever acceptable. I went back and reviewed your comments. My bad.

savedbythevnav
09-05-2018, 10:11 AM
Are we really still going on about this? This is so a few days ago. It's time to be irrationally mad as hell about something else now.

rswitz
09-05-2018, 11:21 AM
Sitting at my crashpad in Queens watching 2 an a half men. My life has reached a new all time low.

TheAshtar
09-05-2018, 11:37 AM
I call bs on static wick to eyeball pic.

Did someone unscrew it after it impaled?!

rickair7777
09-05-2018, 11:56 AM
I call bs on static wick to eyeball pic.

Did someone unscrew it after it impaled?!

Photos of that guy have been around a long time, since before photoshoping was a thing.

skypine27
09-08-2018, 11:00 PM
Recent urban ledgend at FDX, not sure if it’s true. Keep in mind that FDX is largely an older, ex-military, conservative (not just politically) pilot group:

Crew is getting a line check, FO is new hire “millennial type”. Taxiing out, has his phone out tho no one can see it until “bing!” he gets a text. He pulls it out to answer the text, again taxiing on a line check (company check airman, not FAA). Captain says knock it off or whatever.

Still taxiing, the FO gets a voice call and says “I gotta take this...” and answers it. Again, on a line check. Old captain hits his limit, “we’re going back to the gate and I’m having you taken off my flight” (again, this is FDX, it’s an old school group). FO says “that was Delta, I have a class date. This is my last flight here anyway”

Now the good part. Someone high up in our pilot management team called Delta to let them know exactly what kind of new hire they were getting from this guy and Delta rescinded their CJO

Can’t verify if it’s true or not but it’s getting told around here a lot.

Check Complete
09-09-2018, 08:03 AM
^^^^^^^

Having a little problem with the credit ability of this?

ItnStln
09-09-2018, 08:17 AM
Recent urban ledgend at FDX, not sure if it’s true. Keep in mind that FDX is largely an older, ex-military, conservative (not just politically) pilot group:

Crew is getting a line check, FO is new hire “millennial type”. Taxiing out, has his phone out tho no one can see it until “bing!” he gets a text. He pulls it out to answer the text, again taxiing on a line check (company check airman, not FAA). Captain says knock it off or whatever.

Still taxiing, the FO gets a voice call and says “I gotta take this...” and answers it. Again, on a line check. Old captain hits his limit, “we’re going back to the gate and I’m having you taken off my flight” (again, this is FDX, it’s an old school group). FO says “that was Delta, I have a class date. This is my last flight here anyway”

Now the good part. Someone high up in our pilot management team called Delta to let them know exactly what kind of new hire they were getting from this guy and Delta rescinded their CJO

Can’t verify if it’s true or not but it’s getting told around here a lot.

If true that’s great!

OOfff
09-09-2018, 10:28 AM
If true that’s great!

It checks all the “millennials are idiots” boxes, so it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. It will still reinforce the opinion of people who want to think the youth are awful.

Blackhawk
09-09-2018, 01:40 PM
It checks all the “millennials are idiots” boxes, so it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. It will still reinforce the opinion of people who want to think the youth are awful.

It’s not just a millennials problem.

tomgoodman
09-09-2018, 03:23 PM
It’s not just a millennials problem.

That’s true! Some non-millennials were millennial even before the millennium. :p

gojo
09-09-2018, 03:29 PM
That’s true! Some non-millennials were millennial even before the millennium. :p

Ya, but we like to group people into categories

ItnStln
09-09-2018, 04:15 PM
It checks all the “millennials are idiots” boxes, so it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. It will still reinforce the opinion of people who want to think the youth are awful.

I blame the person not the generation.

majorpilot
09-09-2018, 05:21 PM
It checks all the “millennials are idiots” boxes, so it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. It will still reinforce the opinion of people who want to think the youth are awful.



This is unfair to millennials (a group of which I am not). Thirty years ago I experienced a similar exhibit of nincompoopism, and it wasn’t due to “those late Boomers” or “darned Gen-X.”

Some people are just idiots, it’s been that way since cave days and will likely be that way when we are just levitating brains.

keepinitreal
09-12-2018, 06:39 AM
How many nerds are wearing those Apple iWatches in the flight deck?

Really, smart watches irritate you? This isn't 2015 anymore gramps.

ajaf1656
09-12-2018, 08:43 AM
Really, smart watches irritate you? This isn't 2015 anymore gramps.

No. I didn't say that, grandma.

Melit
09-12-2018, 10:22 AM
No. I didn't say that, grandma.

Just keep it real..

E6BAV8R
09-13-2018, 04:31 AM
... from headphones to nonstandard jackets...


Oh brother

tomgoodman
09-13-2018, 05:28 AM
Really, smart watches irritate you? This isn't 2015 anymore gramps.

Watches don’t bother me, but the calendar is irritating. :p

NewGuy01
09-13-2018, 08:07 AM
Just keep this in mind as you do your walk around. Make it your theme song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05PCmqjIeNE&start_radio=1&list=RD05PCmqjIeNE&t=0)

THUG LIFE!!!

The feds is watchin', pilots plottin' to get me
Will I survive, will I die, come on let's picture the possibility
Givin' me charges, lawyers makin' a grip
I told the judge I was raised wrong, and that's why I blaze ****
Was hyper as a kid, cold as a teenager
On my mobile callin' big shots on the scene major

skwcrj
09-13-2018, 08:40 AM
Check Complete do you remember the recurrent video (all scripted of course) of the pilot (CA Bill) doing the walkaround while talking on the phone and a Venti coffee on the other hand?

Check Complete
09-13-2018, 08:58 AM
Ya, I don't think it's gone, I think they still play it in new hire?

What I think is awesome is I did a CBT on self defense that still has a Flight Attendant that got fired over 10 years ago!

Our CBTs are incredible for quality, grammar, spelling, and content.

No idea that years ago when they were made at a 6th grade level they would be perfect for today!

Flightcap
09-13-2018, 09:03 AM
Haters gonna hate on the new generation. I'm just going to continue doing my walk arounds in a professional manner, pulling out the phone when necessary to take a picture of a potential discrepancy for easy communication with my captain and ops. I'll leave it in my pocket otherwise, which is what I've always done. And I'll keep thanking my lucky stars I don't have to fly with most of you guys posting in this thread. ;)

Check Complete
09-13-2018, 10:08 AM
You're such a cool guy, flightcappy!

keepinitreal
09-13-2018, 10:16 AM
No. I didn't say that, grandma.

ohh, then what the #@4 were you saying? Nobody can understand you with all your whining in this thread. Time to take your meds grampa. Now go yell at some kids to get off your lawn.

ajaf1656
09-13-2018, 04:45 PM
ohh, then what the #@4 were you saying? Nobody can understand you with all your whining in this thread. Time to take your meds grampa. Now go yell at some kids to get off your lawn.

What the **** are you blathering about? You must have me confused with someone else.

Flightcap
09-13-2018, 04:53 PM
You're such a cool guy, flightcappy!

Thanks man. I appreciate your validation. :)

TheAshtar
09-14-2018, 07:54 AM
Check Complete do you remember the recurrent video (all scripted of course) of the pilot (CA Bill) doing the walkaround while talking on the phone and a Venti coffee on the other hand?

That’s a classic. BG is awesomeness.

Do you remember Slim P doing the V1 cut? “Dude dude dude?!?!”

Check Complete
09-14-2018, 06:53 PM
Oh ya!

We've got some all out classics!

Some of this you just can't make up!

FlyingKat
09-14-2018, 07:13 PM
Good luck trying to explain to the Feds after an accident caused by a blown tire or something how you didn't miss something on the walkaround while texting/talking on your phone during your walk around. Remember EVERYTHING you do on a ramp is recorded, and big brother is always watching.

If you gotta do something on your phone during the walkaround, stop, do your business, put the phone away and continue the walkaround. But trying to explain to an investigator how you missed gear pins, worn tires or something else on a walkaround after some kind of incident isn't going to be a lot of fun.

TiredSoul
09-15-2018, 03:33 AM
You’re doing a Preflight Walk around and not an A-check.
You can always miss a bald spot on a tire. You don’t get the tug to get it rolled back and forth do you?
Let alone flight controls and spoilers.
As far as the phone thing?
Unless you need to take a picture of a potential issue leave it.
On the flightdeck phones need to be off by the first checklist as per FOM.

FlyingKat
09-15-2018, 03:47 PM
You’re doing a Preflight Walk around and not an A-check.
You can always miss a bald spot on a tire. You don’t get the tug to get it rolled back and forth do you?
Let alone flight controls and spoilers.
As far as the phone thing?
Unless you need to take a picture of a potential issue leave it.
On the flightdeck phones need to be off by the first checklist as per FOM.

Yeah but if something happens, and the Feds pull the surveillance tapes and see you looking at your phone while doing the walkaround good luck trying to talk your way out of that one.

TiredSoul
09-15-2018, 04:59 PM
Yeah but if something happens, and the Feds pull the surveillance tapes and see you looking at your phone while doing the walkaround good luck trying to talk your way out of that one.

I think you missed my point

Unless you need to take a picture of a potential issue leave it.

Blackhawk
09-16-2018, 02:15 PM
If you haven’t been to an NTSB hearing it’s an eye opener. They will look into every aspect of your life. They will know when you entered and left your room and when you got up to pee (the new thermostats have motion sensors).
They won’t need video of your walk around. They will have your cell phone with a record of your texts and a GPS track or your location.

This is a really easy job, 99.999% of the time. Don’t make it harder by doing things you shouldn’t.

FlyingKat
09-16-2018, 02:48 PM
If you haven’t been to an NTSB hearing it’s an eye opener. They will look into every aspect of your life. They will know when you entered and left your room and when you got up to pee (the new thermostats have motion sensors).
They won’t need video of your walk around. They will have your cell phone with a record of your texts and a GPS track or your location.

This is a really easy job, 99.999% of the time. Don’t make it harder by doing things you shouldn’t.


Yep..........

ajaf1656
09-16-2018, 06:13 PM
If you haven’t been to an NTSB hearing it’s an eye opener. They will look into every aspect of your life. They will know when you entered and left your room and when you got up to pee (the new thermostats have motion sensors).
They won’t need video of your walk around. They will have your cell phone with a record of your texts and a GPS track or your location.

This is a really easy job, 99.999% of the time. Don’t make it harder by doing things you shouldn’t.

If you pee in the pool the water will change color around you. Santa knows when you are sleeping and when you are awake. If you swallow your gum, it stays in your belly for 7 years.

in2deep
09-17-2018, 04:31 PM
1. look at the release before you go out or tell the fueler you will call ops with the fuel load as soon as you get back inside.
2. I don't know anyone that is changing their fuel load do to looking at weather standing outside talking to the fuel. has to be coordinated with dispatch.
3. just tell the captain, they are more than likely going to go down and look at it themselves anyway no need for a picture.
4. just ask the ramper.

like the others have said perception is everything and safety is #1. leave your phone in your flight bag when you go outside. anything/anyone can wait 5 minutes till you get back in the cockpit. I have heard of a few new FO's at different big 5's carriers being terminated due to inappropriate phone usage. might want to work on building good habits now.

Ive taken plenty of pictures of anomolies on walk arounds to show the captain. Saves time describing the issue when contacting MX

minivan
09-18-2018, 04:40 PM
I didn't want my apology to get lost in the shuffle of this thread and I know this thing is getting long in the tooth... but I truly do apologize for posting such detailed info on an open forum. From what I recall, I had a fairly crappy day myself the day prior and it probably contributed to a dumb decision to post. Not a good excuse, but just know it has caused me some mental stress thinking I might have caused somebody some unintentional trouble by being so loose lipped through this forum. So once again, I hope this forum will accept my apology. If not, I guess that's life.

Second, just correcting a detail... I noticed there was a lot of "Fed/FAA" talk in some of the replies here, so was thinking it was something I said or implied other than the general nature of the subject. I went back and read my posts. I may have been conflating two ideas or failed/fat fingered a proofing edit on my phone (ironic) , but the guy on the plane next to me was just a normal passenger to my knowledge. If the guy had been FAA, I doubt I would have been compelled to post due to Instant Karma. Either way, just getting that straight so nobody thinks anything other than what I think is the truth. We do know they're always watching like Santa Claus :D Heck, I was ramped last week... and I know that probably makes a few of you happy. :p

I just want folks to know where I'm coming from on the whole "cell phone thing." Why do I hate cell phones so much... I actually love them, but let me give you at least three reasons.

1. I can't walk 50 feet in a straight line through an airport terminal without some phone zombie either walking into me or causing me to alter course into somebody else's path. They're a little distracting when you're trying to do something else, like, walking. Can we at least agree to stand still, like stationary, if you're going to ogle your phone?

2. Lost a good friend from school several years back. Cause of death: trauma to head due to a vehicle accident. She ran off the road texting while driving. We all probably know one or two of these stories.

3. My very wife... is lucky to be alive (and the other woman she hit) after T-boning another vehicle at an intersection. She blew through a yellow/red light change. What was she doing? Talking on her cell phone (on a Bluetooth mind you) to ME!! when it happened. You talk about horrific... that's as bad as it gets. The line goes dead, you know what just happened. It sucks. It's not worth it.

And that's just one of the accidents... salt to the wound, you wouldn't believe what I pay in car insurance each month. This is a passionate subject in my household.

4. An old flight instructor buddy of mine had a student taxi a perfectly good airplane into another perfectly good parked airplane. What do we think he was doing? You guessed it, messing with his dumb phone....

This stuff happens every day, every flippin minute of every day like an epidemic. We're all susceptible to it... and if somebody ever seems me doing it, my ass should be called on it.

The preflight inspection. For most, this is going to be the First Officer's job. There is no check nor balance to a poor preflight by the FO. Therefore, in my opinion (of course it is bc I'm about to say it) it might be the most important thing he/she does all day. I hate to be Captain Obvious, but there it is. I encourage some of you to consider it So as well.

Lastly, social media... I swore off social media, probably a decade ago (at least the main culprits like Facebook, etc). I thought by joining this forum a while back, it would be informative and useful, yet I've come to realize, this forum is much the same as some of the other social media traps. So, to save myself some grief and headache, I'm going to just stickick with to reading the cockpit graffiti. With that being said...

minivan signing off... see you on the line where I actually attempt, daily, to be a pretty decent person. :o

Check Complete
09-18-2018, 07:15 PM
Hey mini,

Best of wishes moving forward, sorry for your troubles.

Take a deep breath and move on.

Best of luck, brother.

ajaf1656
09-19-2018, 06:36 AM
I don't care if the pilot doing the walk around has their face in a phone or The Book of Mormon. If they are negligent in their duties, they should be held accountable. There are other people who are arguing that the phone is inherently bad and refusing to concede that there are instances where a phone can and should be used on a walk around. Think of laws that make it illegal to use a phone while operating a car, they would make it illegal to pick up your phone to look at directions but allow you to use a TI-83 graphing calculator to do your calculus homework. Don't try to preempt the bad behavior by attacking the implement the criminally negligent pilot is using, attack their criminally negligent behavior.

rickair7777
09-19-2018, 08:09 AM
2. Lost a good friend from school several years back. Cause of death: trauma to head due to a vehicle accident. She ran off the road texting while driving. We all probably know one or two of these stories.


Back in my day, that was DUI, lost friends from both HS and college. They seem to have gotten the memo out on DUI, wonder how long it will take for cell phones?

WesternSkies
09-19-2018, 09:25 AM
Back in my day, that was DUI, lost friends from both HS and college. They seem to have gotten the memo out on DUI, wonder how long it will take for cell phones?

Not until it is embraced by tech and legislators IMO.
I.e Heads up displays and a more robust apple or google integration into the radio. Things like the Apple Watch are already making things like Apple maps safer to use.
Being super plugged-in is here to stay.

RickRoss
09-19-2018, 11:28 AM
Can I still wear my north face/Patagonia coat?

ajaf1656
09-19-2018, 10:04 PM
Can I still wear my north face/Patagonia coat?

Yes. Read the PPM.

rickair7777
09-21-2018, 07:15 AM
Not until it is embraced by tech and legislators IMO.
I.e Heads up displays and a more robust apple or google integration into the radio. Things like the Apple Watch are already making things like Apple maps safer to use.
Being super plugged-in is here to stay.

I agree better interfaces can make it safer. But they've proven that even having a conversation, in person with someone in the car or on a hands-free phone is still distracting.



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