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View Full Version : SkyWest ALPA 2.0


savedbythevnav
09-02-2018, 12:26 PM
Apparently it's happening again.

https://www.skywestalpa.org/


amcnd
09-02-2018, 02:18 PM
Not realy. They just changed the website. Still not alpa senctioned yet... just a grass roots effort..

word302
09-02-2018, 02:45 PM
Not realy. They just changed the website. Still not alpa senctioned yet... just a grass roots effort..

Well ALPA paid for the site and has conference calls with us on the regular. How do you define sanctioned?


WesternSkies
09-02-2018, 03:00 PM
pizza and foot rubs.

amcnd
09-02-2018, 03:12 PM
Well ALPA paid for the site and has conference calls with us on the regular. How do you define sanctioned?

Alpa national and all alpa carriers putting something out supporting the drive... and a real alpa website. Not a google registered domain... Oh and a front page cover on Alapa magazine!!! Then you know you have real support . And the free food^. That has yet to show up...

Hou757
09-02-2018, 05:49 PM
Apparently it's happening again.

https://www.skywestalpa.org/

Glad to see this!

savedbythevnav
09-02-2018, 06:15 PM
Glad to see this!

It's a welcome sight to a lot of us. Apparently the OC is having issues getting 80% of the pilot groups contact information for ALPA to provide more help. Sounds like they'd like some verbal backing from other airlines' MEC's too.

word302
09-02-2018, 07:46 PM
Alpa national and all alpa carriers putting something out supporting the drive... and a real alpa website. Not a google registered domain... Oh and a front page cover on Alapa magazine!!! Then you know you have real support . And the free food^. That has yet to show up...

Have you looked at the new site? It isnít registered to google.

amcnd
09-02-2018, 08:06 PM
Have you looked at the new site? It isnít registered to google.

Not alpa..

Domain Name: SKYWESTALPA.ORG
Registry Domain ID: D402200000007316665-LROR
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.google.com
Registrar URL: http://domains.google.com
Updated Date: 2018-08-23T20:48:26Z
Creation Date: 2018-08-23T20:48:22Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2019-08-23T20:48:22Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date:
Registrar: Google Inc.
Registrar IANA ID: 895

word302
09-02-2018, 08:16 PM
Not alpa..

Domain Name: SKYWESTALPA.ORG
Registry Domain ID: D402200000007316665-LROR
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.google.com
Registrar URL: http://domains.google.com
Updated Date: 2018-08-23T20:48:26Z
Creation Date: 2018-08-23T20:48:22Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2019-08-23T20:48:22Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date:
Registrar: Google Inc.
Registrar IANA ID: 895

Yes, the page was created by one of our oc members on free google software, but the domain was bought and paid for by ALPA. What would I have to gain by lying about this?

amcnd
09-02-2018, 08:25 PM
Let me guess ďthey will pay him backĒ if alpa was going to give a full backing they would do it right. Thats what attempts have failed... they need to pony up and go full in. Not ďCoaxĒ a few guys to get names/numbers. They would rent out airport conference rooms, have open houses.... If were going to do this. Do it right... that comes from witnessing failed attempts....

savedbythevnav
09-02-2018, 08:45 PM
Let me guess ďthey will pay him backĒ if alpa was going to give a full backing they would do it right. Thats what attempts have failed... they need to pony up and go full in. Not ďCoaxĒ a few guys to get names/numbers. They would rent out airport conference rooms, have open houses.... If were going to do this. Do it right... that comes from witnessing failed attempts....

I just asked a friend on the OC. ALPA purchased the domain (plus .com/.net which apparently will redirect at some point) but the OC kept ownership of the Google site because itís easier. So the domain was purchased through their service.

Apparently ALPA is funding mailers too since they took everyoneís addressí from the FAA database. So the push is definitely in its infancy.

Nevjets
09-02-2018, 11:18 PM
Let me guess ďthey will pay him backĒ if alpa was going to give a full backing they would do it right. Thats what attempts have failed... they need to pony up and go full in. Not ďCoaxĒ a few guys to get names/numbers. They would rent out airport conference rooms, have open houses.... If were going to do this. Do it right... that comes from witnessing failed attempts....


The last two big ALPA drives (jetblue and virgin), they have taken a more cautious route to begin with. I think they wait until there is a robust OC and a high percentage of interested pilots before they come in with money and a structured organizing campaign.

rickair7777
09-03-2018, 07:11 AM
The last two big ALPA drives (jetblue and virgin), they have taken a more cautious route to begin with. I think they wait until there is a robust OC and a high percentage of interested pilots before they come in with money and a structured organizing campaign.

I think they should be more aggressive with OO. Too many noobs who don't know much, who might benefit from hearing more about it.

I understand why they are gun-shy, but this climate is about as good as it's going to get.

The last vote failed only because a non vote counted as a "no" vote... that's no longer the case.

rickair7777
09-03-2018, 07:13 AM
Apparently ALPA is funding mailers too since they took everyone’s address’ from the FAA database. So the push is definitely in its infancy.

They need to hire a hacker to get the addresses. I'd be surprised if 50% leave their home address up for all to see in the FAA Db.

worstpilotever
09-03-2018, 07:39 AM
F that. They had 2 chances already. They are on their own...I donít want any dues money going to them.

rickair7777
09-03-2018, 07:56 AM
F that. They had 2 chances already. They are on their own...I don’t want any dues money going to them.

The folks from the original drive make up a very small percentage of the pilot group today. The company has grown by over 200% since the second drive.

savedbythevnav
09-03-2018, 08:04 AM
They need to hire a hacker to get the addresses. I'd be surprised if 50% leave their home address up for all to see in the FAA Db.

Just call up RJ and ask for them!

amcnd
09-03-2018, 08:04 AM
The folks from the original drive make up a very small percentage of the pilot group today. The company has grown by over 200% since the second drive.

I believe the last drive we had 1680 pilots. Today we have 4660...

savedbythevnav
09-03-2018, 09:31 AM
I believe the last drive we had 1680 pilots. Today we have 4660...

ďNot the biggest, just the west!Ē

How times have changed.

Nevjets
09-03-2018, 09:51 AM
I think they should be more aggressive with OO. Too many noobs who don't know much, who might benefit from hearing more about it.



I understand why they are gun-shy, but this climate is about as good as it's going to get.



The last vote failed only because a non vote counted as a "no" vote... that's no longer the case.


I tend to agree with you.

What is your change of mind on this? When you were at OO, you used to say that, paraphrasing, a union at a regional is pointless. Now that youre at Alaska, something seems to have changed.

Winston
09-03-2018, 10:05 AM
From the previous effort. I’m sure the issues listed then are of at least of as much concern today:

http://www2.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx?itemid=5022&ModuleId=2044&Tabid=256

Dashdrvr
09-03-2018, 10:10 AM
I tend to agree with you.

What is your change of mind on this? When you were at OO, you used to say that, paraphrasing, a union at a regional is pointless. Now that youre at Alaska, something seems to have changed.

Good luck guys. Your biggest challenge(same at other regionals) will be the newbies. For some reason many believe because they think they are moving on there is no need to participate. Things can change overnight in the industry. Don't forget 9/11. These folks were in grade school then. Today a 3 year journey to right seat at a major can become a 10 year upgrade at a regional with no notice.
It is everyone's career, everyone participate from day one.
OO needs and deserves ALPA representation.

savedbythevnav
09-03-2018, 10:52 AM
OO needs and deserves ALPA representation.

The positive note is that most people I talk to believe in that statement. The OC's polling allegedly suggests the same.

What I'm seeing is a lack of people willing to get involved. Partly because the company knows how to "deal" with people that stick their neck out there and also because, like you say, they 'know' that they are moving on.

amcnd
09-03-2018, 11:00 AM
From the previous effort. Iím sure the issues listed then are of at least of as much concern today:

http://www2.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx?itemid=5022&ModuleId=2044&Tabid=256

I only recognize half dozen names. Everyone is else gone...

sn00p
09-03-2018, 11:22 AM
F that. They had 2 chances already. They are on their own...I donít want any dues money going to them.

Lol got it...

So you just want continue bantering why OO ainít union. Elll oh ellll <3

rickair7777
09-03-2018, 11:44 AM
I tend to agree with you.

What is your change of mind on this? When you were at OO, you used to say that, paraphrasing, a union at a regional is pointless. Now that youre at Alaska, something seems to have changed.

Who said I was at AS?

I haven't changed my mind on anything, as I think we've discussed numerous times over the years I (barely) voted yes last time, not because of a clear need at the time but rather as insurance for the future, IF things went to hell in a hand basket (they did) and IF I stayed (I didn't). At the time it was easy to understand and sympathize with those who voted no. But today the case is more compelling.

All that said, I still think ALPA is unable to adequately represent both majors and their feeders. Maybe teamsters would be better, at least no conflict of interest. I'm not going to roll over and stop pointing out that little fact. Union effectiveness suffers when members blindly drink THAT flavor of koolaid too....

Winston
09-03-2018, 11:49 AM
I only recognize half dozen names. Everyone is else gone...

I’d go so far to say that this is another great reason to get actively involved with the OC:

- If you choose to stay, you’ve bettered your pilot group and your profession.

- If you choose to leave, your name is literally on a very select list that will instantly create many hundreds of pilots willing to go out of their way to help get you hired at mainline.

Win-win.

rickair7777
09-03-2018, 11:55 AM
Just call up RJ and ask for them!

He was on the last OC, not sure where he stands now.

word302
09-03-2018, 01:27 PM
ALPA knows why past efforts have failed. That is why we are required to do the leg work before they take the next step.

Springfield
09-03-2018, 01:38 PM
Who said I was at AS?

All that said, I still think ALPA is unable to adequately represent both majors and their feeders. Maybe teamsters would be better, at least no conflict of interest. I'm not going to roll over and stop pointing out that little fact. Union effectiveness suffers when members blindly drink THAT flavor of koolaid too....You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how ALPA works, as do many pilots. ALPA is best understood as a provider of resources to independent airline unions. If SkyWest were to join ALPA, they'd have access to attorneys, financial experts and a large strike fund. But the SkyWest pilot leadership would still have independence to negotiate and ratify the agreements that THEY consider best for their pilots. If you want to hold out for $150/hr for captains, you can. The Delta pilot at the top will not call you and tell you what you can and cannot do. Really. Get in touch with a rep from an ALPA carrier and ask how often they have received "negotiations instructions" from National. They'll tell you Never, it just doesn't work that way.

worstpilotever
09-03-2018, 02:26 PM
Lol got it...

So you just want continue bantering why OO ainít union. Elll oh ellll <3

Yeah, thatís it. I donít give one crap about them. They had 3 chances to join a union in 10 years. They said no every time. I donít want to spend another dime of ALPA money on them. They made their bed, they lie in it.

word302
09-03-2018, 03:45 PM
Yeah, thatís it. I donít give one crap about them. They had 3 chances to join a union in 10 years. They said no every time. I donít want to spend another dime of ALPA money on them. They made their bed, they lie in it.

Great attitude. This pilot group is a completely different animal than it was during past drives. Voting rules have changed for the better as well. I will be shocked if we arenít successful this time around.

Nevjets
09-03-2018, 11:10 PM
Who said I was at AS?

I haven't changed my mind on anything, as I think we've discussed numerous times over the years I (barely) voted yes last time, not because of a clear need at the time but rather as insurance for the future, IF things went to hell in a hand basket (they did) and IF I stayed (I didn't). At the time it was easy to understand and sympathize with those who voted no. But today the case is more compelling.

All that said, I still think ALPA is unable to adequately represent both majors and their feeders. Maybe teamsters would be better, at least no conflict of interest. I'm not going to roll over and stop pointing out that little fact. Union effectiveness suffers when members blindly drink THAT flavor of koolaid too....


Sorry, Alaska/Virgin. I didnít mean to insult. I know you donít become one pilot group until the list comes out next month and you merge the MECs. And sorry for not keeping straight what you had said in the past. Maybe I got you confused with someone else.

As for conflict of interest, thatís a common misconception. No MEC or anyone at national can compel any other MEC what to negotiate or how to work with their management. Each MEC independently writes is own strategic plan with its own goals and objectives. As long as you comply with the bylaws, National cannot take your MEC into custodianship. Which is the only way that national can ever force itself into an MEC. I think thatís only happened once to an existing local council (USAir?). Now, Iíve heard of national officers and EVPs give unsolicited advice to a specific MEC but their words hold no weight. Any MEC can take any advisement into consideration but they are never obligated to act on it.

rickair7777
09-04-2018, 06:40 AM
Sorry, Alaska/Virgin. I didn’t mean to insult. I know you don’t become one pilot group until the list comes out next month and you merge the MECs. And sorry for not keeping straight what you had said in the past. Maybe I got you confused with someone else.

No, not them either.


As for conflict of interest, that’s a common misconception. No MEC or anyone at national can compel any other MEC what to negotiate or how to work with their management. Each MEC independently writes is own strategic plan with its own goals and objectives. As long as you comply with the bylaws, National cannot take your MEC into custodianship. Which is the only way that national can ever force itself into an MEC. I think that’s only happened once to an existing local council (USAir?). Now, I’ve heard of national officers and EVPs give unsolicited advice to a specific MEC but their words hold no weight. Any MEC can take any advisement into consideration but they are never obligated to act on it.

That's just background noise. If a SIGNIFICANT threat to the career stability and compensation of mainline pilots existed, the MEC leaders AND the national folks would get together and try to address it, plans would be made, action taken, politicians bought, etc. A few minor examples: post-9/11 JS access, single-pilot cargo planes.

But in the case of the single most detrimental (to pilots) aspect of the regional ecosystem, crickets. I'm talking of course about whipsaw. ALPA "collective" (ie national staff + major MECs) has no incentive to upset that particular applecart since pay raises for RJ pilots will come out of THEIR pockets. And MY pockets too of course.

Hell, they haven't even pushed very hard (or at all) for preferential hiring from ALPA regionals.

A dedicated regional union might be able to accomplish some sort of one list, or at least a brand-specific one list (various possible flavors of that).

The biggest benefit of a consolidated regional labor group would probably not be mainline pay for RJ drivers (the economics DO NOT support that, at least not until we have hybrid-electric RJs). Rather it could be career stability for those who want to stay, and likely a flow process for those who want to go.

You can't grant huge windfalls to the regional pilots... in that case they would cease to exist, a significant amount of the flying would go away and the rest would move to mainline. But there probably is room for solid improvements in several areas without breaking the business model. The ONLY thing driving any improvements in whip-saw land is the pilot shortage.

Nevjets
09-04-2018, 10:46 AM
That's just background noise. If a SIGNIFICANT threat to the career stability and compensation of mainline pilots existed, the MEC leaders AND the national folks would get together and try to address it, plans would be made, action taken, politicians bought, etc. A few minor examples: post-9/11 JS access, single-pilot cargo planes.

But in the case of the single most detrimental (to pilots) aspect of the regional ecosystem, crickets. I'm talking of course about whipsaw. ALPA "collective" (ie national staff + major MECs) has no incentive to upset that particular applecart since pay raises for RJ pilots will come out of THEIR pockets. And MY pockets too of course.

Hell, they haven't even pushed very hard (or at all) for preferential hiring from ALPA regionals.

A dedicated regional union might be able to accomplish some sort of one list, or at least a brand-specific one list (various possible flavors of that).

The biggest benefit of a consolidated regional labor group would probably not be mainline pay for RJ drivers (the economics DO NOT support that, at least not until we have hybrid-electric RJs). Rather it could be career stability for those who want to stay, and likely a flow process for those who want to go.

You can't grant huge windfalls to the regional pilots... in that case they would cease to exist, a significant amount of the flying would go away and the rest would move to mainline. But there probably is room for solid improvements in several areas without breaking the business model. The ONLY thing driving any improvements in whip-saw land is the pilot shortage.


This whole post is all noise. The fact of the matter is that no one can tell any regional MEC what to do. Let me say that again, NO ONE can tell ANY regional what to do! If a regional MEC wants to undercut another regional MEC in order to get more shiny jets, NO ONE can tell them not to do that. Just like no one can tell a mainline MEC not to negotiate taking all their flying back. Those are facts. People can speculate on what can happen or what may happen or what should happen but none of those things are fact.

Let me put it this way, if a regional MEC wants to negotiate mainline pay rates for themselves, the mainline MEC cannot tell them, “no don’t do that because it takes money out of our pockets.”

Each MEC decides what they want to negotiate for. Just like the regional MEC can undercut another regional MEC, the mainline MEC can decide to use all their negotiating capital on things other than preferential hiring, flows, career stability/protection for regional pilots, etc. Each MEC has a responsibility first to their members. There is no obligation for them to also look out for any other pilot. They can, of course, if they believe it’s in their best interest. And a case can be made for that. But it’s always weighed against other goals.

What we have between regionals is competition. That will never end unless all mainline scope all their flying back. Until that happens, the economy realities will continue to affect the decisions or each regional MEC.

Bottom line, there is no conflict of interest. It’s the most common misconception of ALPA. Unfortunately, perception is reality. And some people’s perceptions are not correct. Hence, this misinformation gets perpetuated.

Springfield
09-04-2018, 05:53 PM
This whole post is all noise. The fact of the matter is that no one can tell any regional MEC what to do. Let me say that again, NO ONE can tell ANY regional what to do! If a regional MEC wants to undercut another regional MEC in order to get more shiny jets, NO ONE can tell them not to do that. Just like no one can tell a mainline MEC not to negotiate taking all their flying back. Those are facts. People can speculate on what can happen or what may happen or what should happen but none of those things are fact.

Let me put it this way, if a regional MEC wants to negotiate mainline pay rates for themselves, the mainline MEC cannot tell them, ďno donít do that because it takes money out of our pockets.Ē

Each MEC decides what they want to negotiate for. Just like the regional MEC can undercut another regional MEC, the mainline MEC can decide to use all their negotiating capital on things other than preferential hiring, flows, career stability/protection for regional pilots, etc. Each MEC has a responsibility first to their members. There is no obligation for them to also look out for any other pilot. They can, of course, if they believe itís in their best interest. And a case can be made for that. But itís always weighed against other goals.

What we have between regionals is competition. That will never end unless all mainline scope all their flying back. Until that happens, the economy realities will continue to affect the decisions or each regional MEC.

Bottom line, there is no conflict of interest. Itís the most common misconception of ALPA. Unfortunately, perception is reality. And some peopleís perceptions are not correct. Hence, this misinformation gets perpetuated.This is all correct. And what influence will a group of regional airlines on their own have from outside of ALPA? A couple of regionals will barely be able to hire a single good labor attorney between them, much less somehow force United and Delta to to do their bidding.

ReadyRsv
09-05-2018, 08:41 AM
He was on the last OC, not sure where he stands now.

His involvement with an ALPA drive today would LOWER the yes votes!

savedbythevnav
09-05-2018, 10:16 AM
A couple of regionals will barely be able to hire a single good labor attorney between them, much less somehow force United and Delta to to do their bidding.

Speaking of attorney's; SkyWest does not provide lawyers/consultation for negotiation and policy creation. SAPA is left to just do their best on their own.

What does that result in? A bat**** insane loophole that gets taken advantage of. The most recent was the introduction of reserve proffering.

I would go a step further to argue that since the regionals bread is buttered by the contract between our management and mainlines management, that the use of the argument of ALPA being useless at the regional level is a moot point from both sides.

I don't want ALPA because I think it's going to magically blow sunshine up my wazoo. I want it because I believe it is a framework that will actually be effective now that we've grown to a group of 4,665 pilots.

Is offline
09-05-2018, 12:18 PM
If the MECís at the ALPA majors would make it known that they would prefer to hire from ALPA regionals it would pass very fast. There is so much fake union news at skywest itís unbelievable. Pilots go on a 30 minute rant of never ALPA and then they finish with Iíve got apps in at all the majors. Be sure to tell them at your interview how you despise unions...

This is not JA company anymore and it is run just like a union carrier with none of the contract protections. TFAYD

rickair7777
09-05-2018, 12:53 PM
If the MECís at the ALPA majors would make it known that they would prefer to hire from ALPA regionals it would pass very fast. There is so much fake union news at skywest itís unbelievable. Pilots go on a 30 minute rant of never ALPA and then they finish with Iíve got apps in at all the majors. Be sure to tell them at your interview how you despise unions...

Most or all of the interview panel would be cool with that...


This is not JA company anymore and it is run just like a union carrier with none of the contract protections. TFAYD

No it's not.

savedbythevnav
09-05-2018, 01:13 PM
Most or all of the interview panel would be cool with that...

ALPA is a big part of the interview process at UAL and DAL. Not sure on the other carriers, but I'd imagine the same. Beyond all that, you should never be negative in the interview anyways.

Also...bring JA back.

Is offline
09-05-2018, 04:48 PM
[QUOTE=rickair7777;2668898]Most or all of the interview panel would be cool with that...


The pilots I know that are on interview boards would definitely not be ok with that.

rickair7777
09-05-2018, 05:40 PM
[QUOTE=rickair7777;2668898]Most or all of the interview panel would be cool with that...


The pilots I know that are on interview boards would definitely not be ok with that.

But pilots no longer control hiring at most airlines.

I'm not advocating an anti union stance as an interview tactic.

RJDio
09-05-2018, 08:18 PM
Most or all of the interview panel would be cool with that...


Not at UAL. The pilots still play a big role in the interview process and all wear their Alpa pin.

spaaks
09-05-2018, 10:32 PM
Not at UAL. The pilots still play a big role in the interview process and all wear their Alpa pin.

getting your app pulled for an interview is all HR though these days

Nevjets
09-06-2018, 12:22 PM
If the MECís at the ALPA majors would make it known that they would prefer to hire from ALPA regionals it would pass very fast. There is so much fake union news at skywest itís unbelievable. Pilots go on a 30 minute rant of never ALPA and then they finish with Iíve got apps in at all the majors. Be sure to tell them at your interview how you despise unions...



This is not JA company anymore and it is run just like a union carrier with none of the contract protections. TFAYD


I agree with that. Delta used some of their negotiating capital to require management to hire at least 25% ALPA pilots. If MECs all negotiated that all pilots have to be union or ex-military, that would do it. But itís hard to convince an MEC to use their negotiating capital on that type of intangible issue versus higher pay rates, better scope, increasing retirement or benefit value, work rules, etc.

rickair7777
09-06-2018, 01:07 PM
I agree with that. Delta used some of their negotiating capital to require management to hire at least 25% ALPA pilots. If MECs all negotiated that all pilots have to be union or ex-military, that would do it. But itís hard to convince an MEC to use their negotiating capital on that type of intangible issue versus higher pay rates, better scope, increasing retirement or benefit value, work rules, etc.

It could pay off but it would be a long game, and chess not checkers...

1) Require significant hiring preference for ALPA members.
2) That would incentivize entry-level pilots to work for ALPA companies (and OO to unionize).
3) If all regionals were under ALPA, then ALPA might be able to corral them and stop the whipsaw, while managing scope issues.

I say ALPA because I don't think a hodge-podge of different unions would get around to #3.

That might be better for everyone long-term. But odds are low of that ever happening, many mainline folks (somewhat understandably after years of dues paying) just want cash on the barrel-head.

Blackhawk
09-07-2018, 08:32 AM
First rejecting the TA, now this. CC won't be very happy with you.

rswitz
09-07-2018, 08:44 AM
Can someone please explain in plain English what is happening here? Are we getting a union? Thanks

Skyhawk121
09-07-2018, 08:47 AM
Can someone please explain in plain English what is happening here? Are we getting a union? Thanks

Do you even work here? I think you would know the answer to that if you did.

Bonanzer
09-07-2018, 09:47 AM
It could pay off but it would be a long game, and chess not checkers...

1) Require significant hiring preference for ALPA members.
2) That would incentivize entry-level pilots to work for ALPA companies (and OO to unionize).
3) If all regionals were under ALPA, then ALPA might be able to corral them and stop the whipsaw, while managing scope issues.

I say ALPA because I don't think a hodge-podge of different unions would get around to #3.

That might be better for everyone long-term. But odds are low of that ever happening, many mainline folks (somewhat understandably after years of dues paying) just want cash on the barrel-head.

I disagree. First alpa created the whipsaw. Second it is a huge conflict of interest for regional to have the same union as the legacies. We are just an extra cost that keeps them from making more contract gains. Alpa is better then no union so I hope you guys vote them in.

Nevjets
09-07-2018, 09:53 AM
I disagree. First alpa created the whipsaw. Second it is a huge conflict of interest for regional to have the same union as the legacies. We are just an extra cost that keeps them from making more contract gains. Alpa is better then no union so I hope you guys vote them in.


ALPA created the whipsaw as in they were part of the process that led to outsourcing? Is that what you mean? Because other than that, itís mainline management that whipsaw the regionals. Each MEC decides on their own what they want to negotiate for. MECs have no say in what flying mainline management puts out for bid. No MEC can force another MEC what to negotiate for. Therefor thete is no conflict of interest.

rickair7777
09-07-2018, 11:06 AM
ALPA created the whipsaw as in they were part of the process that led to outsourcing? Is that what you mean? Because other than that, itís mainline management that whipsaw the regionals. Each MEC decides on their own what they want to negotiate for. MECs have no say in what flying mainline management puts out for bid. No MEC can force another MEC what to negotiate for. Therefor thete is no conflict of interest.

The macro:
This is all true. But I think opportunities are being missed at the regional level because ALPA collectively has zero incentive (the opposite in fact) to advocate for changes which would mitigate whipsaw and therefore enhance the regional pilots.

The mirco:
Not saying don't vote them in, it's pretty obviously time at OO, I wasn't completely sure in '07 but I'm sure now.

Bonanzer
09-07-2018, 11:24 AM
ALPA created the whipsaw as in they were part of the process that led to outsourcing? Is that what you mean? Because other than that, itís mainline management that whipsaw the regionals. Each MEC decides on their own what they want to negotiate for. MECs have no say in what flying mainline management puts out for bid. No MEC can force another MEC what to negotiate for. Therefor thete is no conflict of interest.

Endeavor concessions
Psa concessions
Piedmont concessions
Envoy concessions
Every contract Mesa has ever signed

All these are products of alpa. Individual MECís have a lot to do with it. Alpa national still has the bargaining rights to the the individual pilot groups contract negotiations. Anyway donít want to argue one Union vs the other. The important thing is that Skywest has a successful union drive.

word302
09-07-2018, 12:26 PM
Endeavor concessions
Psa concessions
Piedmont concessions
Envoy concessions
Every contract Mesa has ever signed

All these are products of alpa. Individual MECís have a lot to do with it. Alpa national still has the bargaining rights to the the individual pilot groups contract negotiations. Anyway donít want to argue one Union vs the other. The important thing is that Skywest has a successful union drive.

You do realize that the legacies took huge concessions as well during this time don't you? To say that these concessions are the product of ALPA is silly. They were a product of the economy and the industry.

WesternSkies
09-07-2018, 12:29 PM
You do realize that the legacies took huge concessions as well during this time don't you? To say that these concessions are the product of ALPA is silly. They were a product of the economy and the industry.

Come on man, no they didn't.
These all happened 2013 and later when majors were/are dropping fat bonuses and recalling.

Is offline
09-07-2018, 12:41 PM
Come on man, no they didn't.
These all happened 2013 and later when majors were/are dropping fat bonuses and recalling.

Ya that wasnít happening. Every airline out there at some point has taken concessions. It goes up and will come down. Half of the regionals that were listed were products of bankruptcy and mismanagement. Take good ole PT of pinnacle, he put them in that position and knew it was coming. He pulled his golden parachute and they didnít file bankruptcy till almost exactly one year later so the court couldnít touch his money. CC is out for is self and the share holders.

Iíll vote in ALPA just to make schedulings job accountable. Iíll pay 2% to not have to call a chief when I told them to pound sand for trying to do something they canít.

Bonanzer
09-07-2018, 12:44 PM
You do realize that the legacies took huge concessions as well during this time don't you? To say that these concessions are the product of ALPA is silly. They were a product of the economy and the industry.

Man everyone forgets quick. This was in 2012-2013. The recession ended in 2009. Not even close to correct.

Winston
09-07-2018, 12:49 PM
Endeavor concessions
Psa concessions
Piedmont concessions
Envoy concessions
Every contract Mesa has ever signed

All these are products of alpa.

This is like disagreeing with the past few Presidents weíve elected and blaming Democracy. As has been said many times: WE are ALPA and we get the union we create.

What would you rather have? The Feudalist system that currently exists at SkyWest?

With all itís warts, a union gives labor a voice and power in determining our collective future. Without one we a subject to the benevolence (or lack thereof) of our nobles...

Blackhawk
09-07-2018, 01:24 PM
Ya that wasnít happening. Every airline out there at some point has taken concessions. It goes up and will come down. Half of the regionals that were listed were products of bankruptcy and mismanagement. Take good ole PT of pinnacle, he put them in that position and knew it was coming. He pulled his golden parachute and they didnít file bankruptcy till almost exactly one year later so the court couldnít touch his money. CC is out for is self and the share holders.

Iíll vote in ALPA just to make schedulings job accountable. Iíll pay 2% to not have to call a chief when I told them to pound sand for trying to do something they canít.

This. The first time you have to go see a CP because of some company BS your ALPA dues are paid for in full.

ninerdriver
09-07-2018, 01:33 PM
Endeavor concessions

Endeavor turned its temporary retention bonuses into permanent wage increases. We're overstaffed right now; it would've sucked if those retention bonuses were still set to expire at the end of this year.

Endeavor got LCR back. It'll be up to 30% of reserve lines in the near future.

Endeavor got positive space to work when needed. Frowned upon? For those who use it a lot when they have other options, then yes. For most of us, no.

Endeavor got rid of CDO trips as part of line construction.

These are things that our MEC (read: ALPA) helped us get back.

Yeah, negotiating sucks sometimes. Things don't always go your way. It's hard to negotiate good things in return, though, if you don't have someone independent of the company to negotiate for you.

Nevjets
09-07-2018, 09:09 PM
Endeavor concessions

Psa concessions

Piedmont concessions

Envoy concessions

Every contract Mesa has ever signed



All these are products of alpa. Individual MECís have a lot to do with it. Alpa national still has the bargaining rights to the the individual pilot groups contract negotiations. Anyway donít want to argue one Union vs the other. The important thing is that Skywest has a successful union drive.



None of this equates to conflict of interest. Each of those MECs decided INDEPENDENTLY what to negotiate and what to approve. And each pilot group decided INDEPENDENTLY to ratify. No outside MEC forced any of these MECs to negotiate concessions, approve concessionary TAs, or ratify concessionary contracts. The only thing ALPA National can do is withhold a signature only if the negotiations were not done per the administrative manual or the constitution & by-laws. Otherwise, those same governing documents require the president to sign.

I donít know how else to put it. No one can tell any MEC what to do.

bronc
09-07-2018, 09:40 PM
Endeavor turned its temporary retention bonuses into permanent wage increases. We're overstaffed right now; it would've sucked if those retention bonuses were still set to expire at the end of this year.

Endeavor got LCR back. It'll be up to 30% of reserve lines in the near future.

Endeavor got positive space to work when needed. Frowned upon? For those who use it a lot when they have other options, then yes. For most of us, no.

Endeavor got rid of CDO trips as part of line construction.

These are things that our MEC (read: ALPA) helped us get back.

Yeah, negotiating sucks sometimes. Things don't always go your way. It's hard to negotiate good things in return, though, if you don't have someone independent of the company to negotiate for you.

There was a concessionary contract imposed at one point during bankruptcy, you must not have flown with enough senior enough ca's yet to learn about that one. Lots of people bailed, led to said retention bonus yada yada

gojo
09-08-2018, 05:08 AM
There was a concessionary contract imposed at one point during bankruptcy, you must not have flown with enough senior enough ca's yet to learn about that one. Lots of people bailed, led to said retention bonus yada yada

Several majors also had concessionary contracts also. Whatís your point?

Bonanzer
09-08-2018, 07:10 AM
Endeavor turned its temporary retention bonuses into permanent wage increases. We're overstaffed right now; it would've sucked if those retention bonuses were still set to expire at the end of this year.

Endeavor got LCR back. It'll be up to 30% of reserve lines in the near future.

Endeavor got positive space to work when needed. Frowned upon? For those who use it a lot when they have other options, then yes. For most of us, no.

Endeavor got rid of CDO trips as part of line construction.

These are things that our MEC (read: ALPA) helped us get back.

Yeah, negotiating sucks sometimes. Things don't always go your way. It's hard to negotiate good things in return, though, if you don't have someone independent of the company to negotiate for you.

Do you even read any of the posts prior to posting?

ninerdriver
09-08-2018, 07:51 AM
There was a concessionary contract imposed at one point during bankruptcy, you must not have flown with enough senior enough ca's yet to learn about that one. Lots of people bailed, led to said retention bonus yada yada

Yeah. One would kinda have to be an idiot not to know about that.

My point is, without an MEC, we wouldn't have had much leverage to get the company to bring us back to where we are now. All of those improvements came outside contract negotiations. Without an MEC, we'd probably be wondering whether we'd still get that retention bonus past the end of this year while we're thick on pilots.

ninerdriver
09-08-2018, 07:57 AM
Do you even read any of the posts prior to posting?

Yeah, I do, but I missed your context this time. My bad.

rswitz
09-08-2018, 09:15 AM
Do you even work here? I think you would know the answer to that if you did.

Yes, I do. I'm fresh off IOE sitting on reserve. Did I miss the big announcement?

deus ex machina
09-08-2018, 12:19 PM
Interesting how Skywest pilots are happy to join ALPA when they get hired at DAL or UAL.... let them fester in their own making.

savedbythevnav
09-09-2018, 05:58 PM
Yes, I do. I'm fresh off IOE sitting on reserve. Did I miss the big announcement?

No big announcement. It's the beginnings of a union campaign.

I'd just go to the website and fill out the contact form. Hear what they have to say. Vote yes or no based on what conclusion you come to.

Is offline
09-09-2018, 07:33 PM
Interesting how Skywest pilots are happy to join ALPA when they get hired at DAL or UAL.... let them fester in their own making.

3/4 of the pilot group have been hired since the last union push. So why should 3/4 of this group be held responsible for the choice they never had?

rickair7777
09-10-2018, 06:42 AM
3/4 of the pilot group have been hired since the last union push. So why should 3/4 of this group be held responsible for the choice they never had?

He's just venting the typical angst experienced by union regional pilots who bought into the idea that they were "made men" in alpa, only to be disappointed when the majors call OO pilots but not them. I still see it at the legacy level among some line pilots who came from the regionals. I very rarely see it get to the level of hiring decision makers, only aware of one guy at UAL who was quickly removed from the process for expressing negative attitudes towards certain regional pilot groups.

rswitz
09-10-2018, 06:25 PM
No big announcement. It's the beginnings of a union campaign.

I'd just go to the website and fill out the contact form. Hear what they have to say. Vote yes or no based on what conclusion you come to.

Thank you.

Nevjets
09-13-2018, 08:05 AM
If you have some time during an overnight, watch this video from the ALPA national officers talk about all the programs and initiatives ALPA tackles in representing all pilots, not just unionized or ALPA pilots.

The best argument for ALPA has always been all the safety, security, Jumpseat, and aeromedical advocacy they do on behalf of the entire airline pilot profession.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8bvN4ugEoU&list=PL30W9E5xrOqEiPuNEG3SwOaWWWqMp784N

Flogger
09-13-2018, 03:24 PM
3/4 of the pilot group have been hired since the last union push. So why should 3/4 of this group be held responsible for the choice they never had?

You are guilty by virtue of taking a job at that non-union airline.

sn00p
09-13-2018, 05:34 PM
You are guilty by virtue of taking a job at that non-union airline.

El oh ellllll if youíre joking!!!

If you arenít joking... still el oh elllllll

WesternSkies
09-13-2018, 06:31 PM
Hahaha .

WaterRooster
09-13-2018, 07:22 PM
You are guilty by virtue of taking a job at that non-union airline.

Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha

Dude you are the best troll. Please never stop running that fat mouth of yours!

deus ex machina
09-17-2018, 05:58 AM
3/4 of the pilot group have been hired since the last union push. So why should 3/4 of this group be held responsible for the choice they never had?

Because they are sucking off the union teat, wiping their mouth with the back of their hand and demanding more, all while thinking they are professionals.. reminds of the neighborhood kids playing xbox in the basement demanding food be brought to them.

the disdain for Skywest pilots among those that actually do union work is high.

3/4 of the OO pilots need to get off their lazy butts and deliver themselves to ALPA. Tired of spending my dues money to organize them and passively support them as they use the jumpseat programs ALPA leads, use the KCM, use the pay rates and working rules to negotiate from.... basically the professional standard.

Then they show up in class at DAL and UAL stinking like OO pilots but think they smell like a prom date.

Check Complete
09-17-2018, 06:39 AM
^^^^^^^

My prom date smelled nice when I picked her up, a little different the next day but still nice!

Did your prom date not shower after he was mowing yards to afford to take you out to sizzler?

sn00p
09-17-2018, 06:51 AM
^^^^^^^

My prom date smelled nice when I picked her up, a little different the next day but still nice!

Did your prom date not shower after he was mowing yards to afford to take you out to sizzler?

:D el oh elllll

rickair7777
09-17-2018, 08:41 AM
Because they are sucking off the union teat, wiping their mouth with the back of their hand and demanding more, all while thinking they are professionals.. reminds of the neighborhood kids playing xbox in the basement demanding food be brought to them.

the disdain for Skywest pilots among those that actually do union work is high.

3/4 of the OO pilots need to get off their lazy butts and deliver themselves to ALPA. Tired of spending my dues money to organize them and passively support them as they use the jumpseat programs ALPA leads, use the KCM, use the pay rates and working rules to negotiate from.... basically the professional standard.

Then they show up in class at DAL and UAL stinking like OO pilots but think they smell like a prom date.

This kind of thuggish intimidation that turns people off to unions.

RickRoss
09-17-2018, 09:00 AM
ďdeliver themselves to ALPAĒ...really? And Iím in favor of an organized labor group separated from the mothership in SGU.

deus ex machina
09-17-2018, 09:02 AM
This kind of thuggish intimidation that turns people off to unions.

poor OO pilots.... gofundme?

Nevjets
09-17-2018, 11:33 AM
This kind of thuggish intimidation that turns people off to unions.


It makes absolutely no logical sense to dismiss a union (or any organization) solely because of one person says. If someone does, itís disingenuous and an excuse.

rickair7777
09-17-2018, 12:57 PM
It makes absolutely no logical sense to dismiss a union (or any organization) solely because of one person says. If someone does, itís disingenuous and an excuse.

Yeah, but people do. A positive sales pitch works better than negative.

Foxy
09-17-2018, 02:50 PM
^^^^^^^

My prom date smelled nice when I picked her up, a little different the next day but still nice!

Did your prom date not shower after he was mowing yards to afford to take you out to sizzler?

Iíve gotta say, Iím honestly kinda impressed by your ability to mix toxic masculinity, classism, and homophobia in such a small insult.

Nevjets
09-17-2018, 03:20 PM
Yeah, but people do. A positive sales pitch works better than negative.


What Iím saying is that the people who do are either disingenuous and using it as an excuse in favor of their preconceived ideas, or they are just not sophisticated in their critical thinking.

And a positive sales pitch does work better than negative (other than in politics).

FollowMe
09-17-2018, 04:04 PM
Iíve gotta say, Iím honestly kinda impressed by your ability to mix toxic masculinity, classism, and homophobia in such a small insult.

Itís going to be as hard for the last generation to handle acceptance of sexual redefinition as it was for their parents to accept integration. But it makes me wonder what prejudice we hold that will ultimately be exposed by our children.

Griever
09-17-2018, 05:22 PM
Itís going to be as hard for the last generation to handle acceptance of sexual redefinition as it was for their parents to accept integration. But it makes me wonder what prejudice we hold that will ultimately be exposed by our children.

Acceptance of single pilot flight deck.

Check Complete
09-17-2018, 07:22 PM
Iíve gotta say, Iím honestly kinda impressed by your ability to mix toxic masculinity, classism, and homophobia in such a small insult.


It's a gift..

savedbythevnav
09-18-2018, 01:33 PM
Because they are sucking off the union teat, wiping their mouth with the back of their hand and demanding more, all while thinking they are professionals.. reminds of the neighborhood kids playing xbox in the basement demanding food be brought to them.

the disdain for Skywest pilots among those that actually do union work is high.

3/4 of the OO pilots need to get off their lazy butts and deliver themselves to ALPA. Tired of spending my dues money to organize them and passively support them as they use the jumpseat programs ALPA leads, use the KCM, use the pay rates and working rules to negotiate from.... basically the professional standard.

Then they show up in class at DAL and UAL stinking like OO pilots but think they smell like a prom date.

What are your thoughts towards SWAPA, APA and Teamsters?

Paid2fly
09-18-2018, 02:09 PM
it's a gift..





:)


;)




:d

Tiffanyc1982
09-22-2018, 07:37 PM
The macro:
This is all true. But I think opportunities are being missed at the regional level because ALPA collectively has zero incentive (the opposite in fact) to advocate for changes which would mitigate whipsaw and therefore enhance the regional pilots.

The mirco:
Not saying don't vote them in, it's pretty obviously time at OO, I wasn't completely sure in '07 but I'm sure now.

It took 11years of convincing? What the heck is in that St. George water?

rickair7777
09-23-2018, 05:49 AM
It took 11years of convincing? What the heck is in that St. George water?

You must not have been there before 15 years ago. But I did vote yes in 07, just had my doubts back then. Apparently it was the right choice then, and certainly would be today.

Nevjets
09-26-2018, 11:49 AM
September 25, 2018
ALPA Members:
The U.S. Congress has reached a landmark agreement on a bipartisan, five-year Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) reauthorization bill that keeps pilot training requirements strong and two fully qualified pilots in the cockpit of every Part 121 passenger and cargo aircraft. At the same time, the reauthorization advances safety, security, and pilot assistance in passenger and all-cargo operations and promotes the future of the piloting profession.
While not entirely perfect, this bill reflects progress on a tremendous number of our strategic plan priorities. Every ALPA member should take pride in how our union came together for four years to press Congress to agree on a safety-focused, long-term reauthorization.
This year alone, our members and others sent more than 93,000 letters and e-mails to Capitol Hill to make our voices heard on ALPA's priority issues. Our pilot volunteers and staff made hundreds of visits to Members of Congress. Nearly 22 percent of our members contributed to ALPA PAC.
Thanks to your dedication, despite being up against monied interest groups that attempted to roll back pilot qualification standards and move down a path to eliminate pilots from cockpits, our safety message prevailed with both Democrats and Republicans.
This positive action on two top issues for our union was by no means an easy win; but together, we've achieved even more progress. The reauthorization reflects ALPA priorities in other ways. Let's run down the list. The bill
mandates secondary cockpit barriers on new manufactured passenger airliners.
improves the safe transport by air of lithium batteries.
helps to keep undeclared dangerous goods off our aircraft.
prescribes the automatic acceptance of voluntary safety reports through ASAP.
includes fume event reporting and education requirements.
directs the FAA to change the oxygen mask requirement to FL410 from FL250.
supports the authorization of pilot assistance programs, including HIMS.
enhances the Federal Flight Deck Officer program.
commissions a study of perimeter security at all-cargo airports.
permits the FAA to regulate unmanned aircraft systems flown by hobbyists.
establishes a Women in Aviation Advisory Board.
increases funding for the Essential Air Service program and the Small Community Air Service Development Program.
continues access to emergency airfields in the Pacific.
improves airfield markings.
affirms pilot-in-command authority.
Also notable is what is not included in this bill. Because of our diligent advocacy, in addition to successfully fighting back attempts to weaken first officer qualification and training requirements and a proposal to eliminate pilots from the flight deck, we also prevented proposals from being included in the bill that would change labor laws, require additional mental health screenings for pilots, permit cameras in the cockpit, and weaken foreign ownership and cabotage laws.
As we applaud the commitment evident on both sides of the political aisle to make this agreement happen, we also voice our disappointment that the FAA reauthorization does not include language passed by the U.S. House to ensure that flag-of-convenience airlines aren't allowed to threaten the U.S. airline industry. Our union will simply never let up on our commitment to level the playing field and protect American jobs against foreign airlines seeking to game the system with schemes to avoid labor, tax, and safety laws.
Likewise, we'll continue our union's drive to require the installation of hardened flight deck doors on all-cargo airliners, a key priority that we'll bring to the attention of Members of Congress as we testify this week before the U.S. House of Representatives Subcommittee on Transportation and Protective Security.
The FAA reauthorization bill is strong and centered around the full range of our Air Safety Organization's priorities. It provides stable and long-term funding that reflects the hard work by ALPA members to promote our safety, security, pilot assistance, and jumpseat efforts and our profession.
ALPA is urging Congress to vote swiftly to pass this FAA reauthorization to safeguard passengers, crews, and cargo shippers in this country and affirm the United States as the global leader in aviation.
And I encourage every ALPA pilot to take the time to share this positive news with other members. Your effortsóand your relentless commitment to safer skies and a stronger professionóare the reason behind this FAA reauthorization and all of ALPA's achievements.

SilentLurker
09-28-2018, 11:31 PM
SAPA student union/Mgmt is throwing some money to Skywest Pilots so they will ignore ALPAís push...

A SPADE is a SPADE, not surprised how quick the SGU leadership was able to come back to your table with better offers once ALPAs push/movement became certain.

You all are already seeing the benefits of ALPA. Donít be surprised if your able to get more.

Nevjets
09-29-2018, 08:18 PM
Without being union, you simply cannot help nearly as much in the industry pushing for safety/security/advocacy initiatives in congress and in the myriad of different agencies.

Nevjets
09-30-2018, 01:25 PM
FAA Reauthorization

The U.S. Congress has reached a landmark agreement on a bipartisan, five-year Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) reauthorization bill (H.R. 302). The bill provides the FAA with stability through September 30, 2023 Ė the longest authorization for the Administration since 1982. This is a pilot partisan reauthorization bill that advances safety, security, and pilot assistance, as well as promotes the future of the piloting profession. Most importantly, this bill keeps pilot training requirements strong and two fully qualified pilots in the cockpit of every Part 121 passenger and cargo aircraft.

Below is an in-depth summary of ALPAís priorities considered during this Reauthorization.
First Officer Qualifications

Most notably, the bill does not contain changes to First Officer training or qualifications. ALPAís biggest concern heading into this reauthorization bill was the threat of lowering the training, fatigue, and qualifications requirements for professional pilots. The chairman of the Commerce Committee, Sen. John Thune (R-SD), proposed an amendment to do just that in early 2017. Ultimately, Chairman Thune withdrew his amendment following years of ALPA engagement on this issue.

Since Congress implemented key safety enhancements in 2010 following the Colgan crash outside of Buffalo, NY, ALPA has fought to maintain these important safety measures. The latest attack has come from regional carriers and others who continue to claim a ďpilot shortageĒ necessitates a reduction in the minimum qualification level. More than 5,000 ALPA pilots completed our call-to-action on this issue urging the Senate to rely on the facts and preserve these regulations which have led to the safest period in transportation history.
Single-Pilot Operations

Another major priority not included in the final bill is Section 744, which would have created a program in support of single pilot operations for cargo. This provision was added without debate to the House FAA reauthorization bill. In response, more than 16,000 ALPA members participated in our call-to-action demanding this provision be removed Ė a new record for ALPA C2As. Congress listened and removed this terrible policy proposal from the final bill. At least two fully qualified pilots will be required in the cockpit of every FAR Part 121 passenger and cargo airliner for the foreseeable future.

Here again, ALPA was able to defeat an entrenched committee chair Ė in this case Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX-21) of the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee who pushed this provision Ė and force the removal of this section from the final bill. This kind of victory is very rare in Washington, DC; two in one bill is almost unheard of.
Flags of Convenience

The one ALPA priority Congress failed to address in this bill is H.R.2150, the Flags of Convenience Don't Fly Here Act. This provision would have ensured that flag of convenience airlines are not allowed to threaten the U.S. airline industry. This was one of the final issues outstanding in the last hours of negotiations.

While disappointing, ALPA will continue our commitment to level the playing field and protect American jobs against foreign airlines seeking to game the system with schemes to avoid labor, tax and safety laws. And, we believe we are making progress with the Trump administration on this issue. We will also work with the new House and Senate in 2019 to permanently address this issue in future legislation.
Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS)

The bill repeals Section 366 of the 2012 FAA reauthorization bill which exempted UAS hobbyists from FAA regulation. In place of this exemption, the FAA has been directed to create new regulations specifically for hobbyists. These new rules will help ensure that UAS stay away from our aircraft.

Additionally, the bill authorizes the Department of Justice (DOJ) and Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to take control of or shoot down UAS that pose a security threat.

Secondary Barriers

The bill directs the FAA to mandate the installation of secondary cockpit barriers on all newly manufactured aircraft. This is the first step towards ensuring our entire fleet is equipped with these effective security measures. This ALPA victory is years in the making and comes thanks to the more than 6,800 calls-to-action sent by ALPA members to their elected officials.

Our next order of business is mandating hardened cockpit doors on all-cargo aircraft. This inequity is a major security threat. (See hearing update below.)
ASAP Reporting

Per the final FAA bill, Aviation Safety Action Program (ASAP) reports will now be automatically accepted into the program and may only be excluded by a vote from the event review committee. The safety benefit of voluntarily reported incident information from frontline employees and airlines will be realized immediately at all carriers.
Federal Flight Deck Officers (FFDO) Program

Section 1963 of the bill harmonizes firearms training with FAMS training and supports additional firearms training facilities throughout the U.S. to provide recurrent and requalifying training. This section also forbids TSA from establishing medical or physical standards for a pilot seeking to become an FFDO that are more stringent than standards for issuance of an FAA airman certificate under part 67 of title 14 CFR.
Human Intervention Study (HIMS) Program

Section 544 authorizes the HIMS program for the first time in its history. The program has been sustained since the 1960s through the Congressional appropriations process, thanks to ALPAís direct advocacy. Going forward, the FAA will be tasked with fully supporting the program and helping other modes of transportation learn from the programís successes.
Lithium Cells & Batteries

Lithium cell and battery regulations will be harmonized with ICAOís standards. This change will upgrade domestic rules for these hazardous materials.
Oxygen Masks

The FAA will also harmonize air mask rules with ICAO, changing the altitude required for pilots to wear a mask in the cockpit to FL410 from FL250. This change will be an operational and safety improvement for line pilots.
Women in Aviation

Thanks to the bill, a new Women in Aviation Advisory Board will be formed in the coming months and will include ALPA as a member. The Board will be tasked with evaluating the challenges faced by young women and girls who may consider becoming professional aviators and make recommendations to the FAA for overcoming those challenges.

Essential Air Service (EAS)

Despite calls from some to defund the program, the Essential Air Service has been reauthorized and its budget will increase over the next several years. The bill also commissions a study on possible reform for the program, including impacts on local communities and access to air service for those communities.

Pilot-in-Command

The bill affirms, via a Sense of Congress resolution, that the pilot in command of the aircraft is the final authority and directly responsible for the aircraft.

Pacific Island Airports

Section 117 of the bill reauthorizes grant eligibility for airports in the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, and Palau through fiscal year 2023. This ensures continued access to critical emergency airfields on transpacific routes.

Undeclared Hazmat

Within the FAA reauthorization measure, ALPA had advocated for stricter scrutiny and education of hazardous materials. To that end, provisions are included in to support and expand the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administrationís (PHMSA) undeclared hazardous materials educational campaign, ďCheck the BoxĒ. The campaign educates the public and trains hazmat employees about hazardous materials and how to properly package, mark and label such materials for proper handling and safe transport.

Airport Perimeter & Access Control Security

TSA will update the Transportation Sector Security Risk Assessment and conduct a system-wide assessment of airport access control points and airport perimeter security, including all-cargo airports and areas.

Aircraft Air Quality

Congress also mandates the FAA to provide educational materials on how to respond to incidents involving smoke and fumes. Additionally, the bill requires the issuance of guidance on how to report incidents, a study by the Airliner Cabin Environment Center of Excellence on bleed air, health effects, and technologies and techniques to provide accurate warning and prevention. These new mandates will lead to health and safety improvements for passengers and crew members.

TSA Administrator

The final bill incorporates H.R. 1309, the TSA Administrator Modernization Act of 2017, to affirm TSA as a component of the Department of Homeland Security and establishes a five-year term for the TSA Administrator. This will provide continuity to the administrator role, like that of the FAA Administrator.

ALPA Calls for Policy Action to Enhance Aviation Security Before Congress

On September 27, ALPA testified before the U.S. House Transportation and Protective Security Subcommittee on insider threats to cargo and passenger flights. While commending the recent aviation security improvements led by Congress, Capt. Tim Canoll underscored that insider threats can result from malicious intent, complacency, or a lack of awareness, citing the aircraft theft that occurred recently near SeattleĖTacoma International Airport.

ALPAís testimony called on Congress to help achieve one level of security for passenger and cargo flight operations with swift, risk-based policy actions that includes:
requiring reinforced cockpit doors and adequate secondary cockpit barriers on every cargo aircraft,
requiring that all cargo operations be conducted in the SIDA,
requiring cargo-specific security training where it is inadequate, and
requiring fingerprint-based criminal history records checks for anyone with access to cargo aircraft or their cockpits.

Since 9/11, ALPA has worked closely with the TSA to provide expertise as it has adopted a risk-based approach to aviation security.

TheFly
10-02-2018, 09:43 AM
...First alpa created the whipsaw. Second it is a huge conflict of interest for regional to have the same union as the legacies. We are just an extra cost that keeps them from making more contract gains...

100% agree with this part. Not only NO, but Hell NO to ALPA. Stronger representation would be good, but ALPA canít truly go to bat for us and our mainline partners at the same time. Whatís beneficial for one often isnít for the other.

gojo
10-02-2018, 09:59 AM
100% agree with this part. Not only NO, but Hell NO to ALPA. Stronger representation would be good, but ALPA canít truly go to bat for us and our mainline partners at the same time. Whatís beneficial for one often isnít for the other.

Talk about being close minded??? ALPA does a lot of good for the industry as a whole. The most resent being the fight to keep 2 pilots in the flight deck and NAI. I would call that beneficial to everyone. Not to mention programs you have been benefiting from for years. If youíre not going to help contribute to help these ongoing issues, I would hope that youíre at least contributing to the ALPA PAC fund.

sn00p
10-02-2018, 10:33 AM
Talk about being close minded??? ALPA does a lot of good for the industry as a whole. The most resent being the fight to keep 2 pilots in the flight deck and NAI. I would call that beneficial to everyone. Not to mention programs you have been benefiting from for years. If youíre not going to help contribute to help these ongoing issues, I would hope that youíre at least contributing to the ALPA PAC fund.

I agree with this.

Thumbs up.

savedbythevnav
10-02-2018, 10:55 AM
100% agree with this part. Not only NO, but Hell NO to ALPA. Stronger representation would be good, but ALPA canít truly go to bat for us and our mainline partners at the same time. Whatís beneficial for one often isnít for the other.

Explain to me the relationship with ALPA National and an MEC. Also, explain to me how an MEC works.

With all due respect, you're insinuating that there will be some sort of crippling conflict of interest which tells me that you may not necessarily have a full understanding of how ALPA works.

WesternSkies
10-02-2018, 11:52 AM
Explain to me the relationship with ALPA National and an MEC. Also, explain to me how an MEC works.

With all due respect, you're insinuating that there will be some sort of crippling conflict of interest which tells me that you may not necessarily have a full understanding of how ALPA works.

So you are going with the ineffectual and impotent argument. A bold 1,2.

gojo
10-02-2018, 12:12 PM
So you are going with the ineffectual and impotent argument. A bold 1,2.

Well you can lead the proverbial horse to water, but you canít make him drink it. Only this horse has blinders on so it canít see to the sides or behind him because it scares him. I donít understand how you canít recognize the good ALPA does for this industry? And furthermore, without the ALPA contracts for comparison for your beloved SAPA and Skywest management they would be unable to provide you with the the compensation and benefit package you continue to enjoy. But, by my math, your recent proposal should be at least 1.8% higher than us ALPA represented regionals. After all, it seems thatís the tip of the iceberg most see at Skywest. 1.8% what a waste, right?

Puck Hawg
10-02-2018, 12:28 PM
Iím not leading an ALPA parade, but what National has done for safety and for the betterment of the industry is well worth th couple of percent of dues. Isnít it nice having someone at a National/Government level petitioning on your behalf a nice feeling?

Thereís absolutely a conflict of interest between regionals and legacyís, but we are working on that.

Iím not flaming, because I really donít know, but does SAPA have lawyers and representation in Washington? Do you think SAPA would have any pull in the fight to keep two pilots in the cockpit?

Again, not beating the ALPA drum, but it definitely has its benefits. Legal and aeromedical alone is worth your time.

Nevjets
10-02-2018, 02:47 PM
https://www.flyingmag.com/another-side-labor-unions

An inside glimpse of a professional pilot association.
By Les Abend Yesterday at 7:00am

Here is a small sampling of the positive contributions that a pilots union is making to the airline industry and to the pilot profession.

Who would have thought that a 600-foot alteration of the departure track out of Reagan National Airport in Washington, D.C., could make the difference in almost completely eliminating accidental incursions of the infamous P-56, the prohibited airspace over the White House? As an added layer of prevention, pilots are also provided with better visual awareness via flight displays and procedures. How was this done? My pilots union, through coordination with our airlineís flight department, the FAA and the Secret Service, found the solutions. But this circumstance is just one of many in which my union has been an active participant.
Some of you might have pre*conceived notions when the word union is mentioned. It conjures images of Jimmy Hoffa and corruption, picket signs, strikes and work stoppages. Union work is unfairly associated with inefficiency and lack of production. ďIt must be a union job,Ē is a catchphrase oftentimes used when the work involves higher wages and/or the work is behind schedule.
Unfortunately, a handful of labor associations have contributed to these connotations, so all unions get lumped into one category. But all are not the same. Granted, a labor organizationís primary purpose is to collectively represent and bargain for its members, but unions exist because employers donít always treat their employees fairly.
Beyond wages and work rules, labor organizations have been responsible for positive changes in their industries. In that regard, Iíd like to present just a small sampling of the positive contributions that my pilots union is making to the airline industry and to the pilot profession. You can be the judge as to the value of my organization. A majority of the credit described in the next few paragraphs belongs to the volunteers of the safety committee.
In an effort to keep track of events affecting our airline in real time, my association constructed a safety operations center using the latest in available technology. Everything from an accident to a security event to a hurricane can be monitored.
We have an active committee involved in accident investigation, participating as third-party representatives under the jurisdiction of the National Transportation Safety Board. Our unionís mobile application has a selection that provides the appropriate information and hot-linked phone numbers in the event one of our crews is involved with an accident or incident.
Participation in a turbulence task force has helped to mitigate passenger and crew injuries by using technological tools along with procedural changes.
For the past several years, the FAA has put emphasis on the effect of fatigue, mostly because of the factors discovered in the Colgan Air crash on February 12, 2009. As a result, the new rules, FAR 117, dictate regulations to mitigate fatigue degradation in the cockpit. Circadian rhythm was finally factored into the equation, for which many pilot associations advocated during the notice of proposed rule making process. Most airlines have integrated a fatigue risk management program into their FAA required safety management system.
Our pilots now have a nonjeopardy procedure in which they can declare fatigued before or during a trip. With the cooperation of the airline, my union analyzes fatigue calls with the objective of reducing the costly events by determining common denominators for their causes, such as an unrealistic trip schedule, a noisy layover hotel and so on.
At the Denver International Airport, our airline had some taxi safety issues. Working with the flight department, our union helped to change the taxi procedures and, as a result, saved the company approximately $1.8 million per year.
The RNAV/ATC safety team subcommittee, along with our airline management, the FAA, National Air Traffic Controllers Association, Air Line Pilots Association and Southwest Airlines Pilots Association, is actively involved with certain IFR procedural aspects that include phraseology for SIDs and STARs. This subcommittee is also involved in large metroplex redesign projects, which as of this writing include Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., and Charlotte, North Carolina.
Through the monitoring of onboard airplane data and ATC reports, a safety concern regarding incursions outside the floor of Class B airspace became apparent. When an IFR airplane leaves Class B airspace, it is no longer protected. This lack of protection can cause a conflict with VFR aircraft operating just outside the airspace. Most of the incidents occurred after a given flight was cleared for a visual approach. To mitigate this type of event by making crews more aware of the boundaries, the safety committee got Jeppesen to include Class B chart depiction for every airport included in that particular airspace rather than just for the primary airport. And with iPad geo-referencing available and FAA approval, the own-ship display will further enhance situational awareness.
On another front that has gained momentum because of an increase in reported incidents, the union is addressing the fume-event issue. A new checklist is in development for the Airbus to mitigate the potential effects of a fume event. New procedures are being formulated to address reporting and documentation. Training for pilots encountering fumes is being designed to educate them with reference to potential health reactions at the time of the incident and subsequent to the incident.
Our airlineís flight department publishes an online magazine highlighting various safety events and procedural issues that crews have experienced. The union has contributed numerous articles that provide real-world insight into colleaguesí cockpits with the intent of highlighting, and thus preventing, similar mistakes.
One of our hubs has been experiencing growing pains mostly related to volume of traffic in the ramp area. With joint cooperation from the company, members of the safety committee assisted in streamlining the operation by addressing problems with ramp entry and exit, hardstand markings, taxi-line markings, communications between ramp control and the ATC tower and appropriate verbiage between the cockpit and ground personnel.
Our airlineís Boeing 737s were occasionally experiencing hard landings and tail-strike events. (Although not uncommon, these events are rare and do not involve passenger or crew injuries, but mostly embarrassment for the pilot and high maintenance costs for the company.) Through the Flight Operations Quality Assurance program, analyzed data obtained from on board the airplane provided the factors involved with such occurrences. A downloadable FOQA computer profile was established that identified flights at risk so the crew could be called to discuss the circumstances and prevent a future event. This awareness was also incorporated into 737 training.

Nevjets
10-02-2018, 03:01 PM
100% agree with this part. Not only NO, but Hell NO to ALPA. Stronger representation would be good, but ALPA canít truly go to bat for us and our mainline partners at the same time. Whatís beneficial for one often isnít for the other.Thereís absolutely a conflict of interest between regionals and legacyís, but we are working on that.


There is no conflict of interest. ALPA national cannot compel any MEC what to negotiate for. No MEC can compel any other MEC what to negotiate for. Those are facts.

Mainline management negotiate with mainline MEC on wages, working conditions, and scope. Whatever isnít scoped into mainline flying is then put out to bid by mainline management for regional management to compete with. The regional management that wins the bid also negotiated with the regional MEC for the wages and working conditions of the flying that mainline MEC didnít/couldnít scope in during their negotiations with mainline management.

At no point can the mainline MEC dŪctate to the regional MEC on what to negotiate or settle for in the regional MECís negotiation with regional management. Also, regional MEC cannot negotiate for any flying that is scoped by mainline MECs. I mean, they can negotiate for $100/hr for 737 captain if they really want to, even if there isnít a 737 in their fleet. And mainline MECs couldnít do anything about it if that happened.

There is no conflict of interest. Each MEC decides what they want to negotiate for and ALPA national nor any other MEC can tell them otherwise.

Gone Flying
10-02-2018, 05:55 PM
There is no conflict of interest. ALPA national cannot compel any MEC what to negotiate for. No MEC can compel any other MEC what to negotiate for. Those are facts.

Mainline management negotiate with mainline MEC on wages, working conditions, and scope. Whatever isn’t scoped into mainline flying is then put out to bid by mainline management for regional management to compete with. The regional management that wins the bid also negotiated with the regional MEC for the wages and working conditions of the flying that mainline MEC didn’t/couldn’t scope in during their negotiations with mainline management.

At no point can the mainline MEC dŪctate to the regional MEC on what to negotiate or settle for in the regional MEC’s negotiation with regional management. Also, regional MEC cannot negotiate for any flying that is scoped by mainline MECs. I mean, they can negotiate for $100/hr for 737 captain if they really want to, even if there isn’t a 737 in their fleet. And mainline MECs couldn’t do anything about it if that happened.

There is no conflict of interest. Each MEC decides what they want to negotiate for and ALPA national nor any other MEC can tell them otherwise.

This comment needs a like button!!!! I have tried to explain this to other pilots and sometimes they are surprised by the info and other times it just falls on deaf ears

yet somehow an organization where everyone is paid by SKW INC is not a conflict of interest ( not a knock at the individuals, many are good folks, just the way the structure of SAPA is set up)

gojo
10-02-2018, 07:11 PM
This comment needs a like button!!!! I have tried to explain this to other pilots and sometimes they are surprised by the info and other times it just falls on deaf ears

yet somehow an organization where everyone is paid by SKW INC is not a conflict of interest ( not a knock at the individuals, many are good folks, just the way the structure of SAPA is set up)

I think itís the later with many at Skywest. Theyíre gonna believe what they want and ignore the facts. And yes, I agree, I just shake my head when someone says conflict of interest like SAPA is the answer for that. There canít be a bigger conflict of interest than a company paid for association. How can a SAPA rep effectively represent the pilot group in that situation?

savedbythevnav
10-03-2018, 07:10 AM
So you are going with the ineffectual and impotent argument. A bold 1,2.

I'm not sure I see your point.

What I am saying is that ALPA National does not/cannot tell any MEC what to do (Example: The UAL JS Massacre of 2018). A lot of people, especially at OO, have this notion that ALPA cannot work at the regional level (inb4: but look at MESA!!!).

It comes down to your MEC, and the funding that you have. Smaller pilot group = less funding since your dues are less. We have 4,700 pilots. We would have a lot more available to us than, shall we say, MESA for example.

I would argue some of these small MEC's get less funding from dues than SAPA does directly from the company.

Check Complete
10-03-2018, 08:18 AM
I think perhaps the focus should be that, of course, ALPA will not be perfect for SkyWest Pilots. There is no representation body that is! These are my opinions. But another opinion of mine is that it has to be better than what we have: SAPA.

The company pays for SAPA, there's your nuclear powered conflict of interest right there!

I was a SAPA rep years ago, the company can and does say just how far to push.

The benefits, again my opinion, far out weigh what the company says we can have.

Just ask the ones that have been fired and disciplined in the last 5 years, would you rather have a SAPA rep by your side or a real attorney?

Remember, a crew was recently fired for an incident that was reported and accepted through the ASAP process. Pretty sure that doesn't happen at United or Delta?

WesternSkies
10-03-2018, 08:28 AM
Remember, a crew was recently fired for an incident that was reported and accepted through the ASAP process. Pretty sure that doesn't happen at United or Delta?

Come on man. Get up to speed on ASAP ASAP.
Take note of words like ďsole sourceĒ.

gojo
10-03-2018, 08:38 AM
Come on man. Get up to speed on ASAP ASAP.
Take note of words like ďsole sourceĒ.

Well providing a little more information other than ďsole sourceĒ would be nice. But you donít like to do that, do you? You just like to throw these little innuendos out there to fan the flames without providing any facts. And the context of his is correct. ALPA provides good legal representation if needed. SAPA does not. And that alone is well worth the 1.8%

Nevjets
10-03-2018, 08:42 AM
If youíre not going to help contribute to help these ongoing issues, I would hope that youíre at least contributing to the ALPA PAC fund.


You have to be a member or employee of ALPA in order to contribute to the ALPA PAC. But itís an excellent point. If you can come together and pool resources (financial and intellectual), you can make a difference. You canít be as effective as thousands of separate individuals.

I'm not sure I see your point.



What I am saying is that ALPA National does not/cannot tell any MEC what to do (Example: The UAL JS Massacre of 2018). A lot of people, especially at OO, have this notion that ALPA cannot work at the regional level (inb4: but look at MESA!!!).



It comes down to your MEC, and the funding that you have. Smaller pilot group = less funding since your dues are less. We have 4,700 pilots. We would have a lot more available to us than, shall we say, MESA for example.



I would argue some of these small MEC's get less funding from dues than SAPA does directly from the company.


ALPA National (mainline MECs) indirectly subsidize day to day operation of regional MECs on top of any contingency funding given to regional MECs during negotiations.

But you bring up another point about the number of pilots. With more than 4,000 pilots, if Skywest were to vote in ALPA, they would be the only regional airline with their own executive Vice President. The Skywest MEC would elect one of their pilots to be their EVP and actually be part of ALPA national at the executive council and executive board meetings, with equal voting power as the EVP from UAL, DAL, FDX, regional airlines (pooled together). Skywest along with the EVP from the pooled regional airlines would have a lot of influence in ALPA national policy making.

Nevjets
10-03-2018, 08:50 AM
I think perhaps the focus should be that, of course, ALPA will not be perfect for SkyWest Pilots. There is no representation body that is! These are my opinions. But another opinion of mine is that it has to be better than what we have: SAPA.

The company pays for SAPA, there's your nuclear powered conflict of interest right there!

I was a SAPA rep years ago, the company can and does say just how far to push.

The benefits, again my opinion, far out weigh what the company says we can have.

Just ask the ones that have been fired and disciplined in the last 5 years, would you rather have a SAPA rep by your side or a real attorney?

Remember, a crew was recently fired for an incident that was reported and accepted through the ASAP process. Pretty sure that doesn't happen at United or Delta?


At any ALPA regional, each MEC has dedicated staff and attorneys that deal with grievances (both work rule and discipline). Any pilot meeting with any management person can have an attorney with them. And if they donít come to an agreement, they continue along the contractual dispute resolution process. And if they still canít come to an agreement, it gets sent out to binding arbitration by a neutral, independent third party arbitrator. All of this, including the cost of arbitration, is paid for by the union. Also, if the pilot, for whatever reason, can decide they can decline a representative if they want. Unless the pilot agrees to voluntarily resign (usually because they get caught red handed stealing), disciplinary firings go to arbitration. Many unjustly fires pilots have gotten their job back with back pay without having to pay tens of thousands of dollars defending yourself while you are out of work, like Skywest pilot Douglas had to.

WesternSkies
10-03-2018, 08:51 AM
Well providing a little more information other than ďsole sourceĒ would be nice. But you donít like to do that, do you? You just like to throw these little innuendos out there to fan the flames without providing any facts. And the context of his is correct. ALPA provides good legal representation if needed. SAPA does not. And that alone is well worth the 1.8%
No. You donít need any more information. The word I used tells you all you need to know about that event. Check complete has raised suspicion of the integrity of our ASAP program. He has endangered a safety program out of ignorance or maliciousness.
Unacceptable.

word302
10-03-2018, 09:23 AM
Come on man. Get up to speed on ASAP ASAP.
Take note of words like ďsole sourceĒ.

You don't find it interesting that literally every ex SAPA rep supports getting a union on board? That should really be all you need to know.

savedbythevnav
10-03-2018, 09:58 AM
ALPA National (mainline MECs) indirectly subsidize day to day operation of regional MECs on top of any contingency funding given to regional MECs during negotiations.

But you bring up another point about the number of pilots. With more than 4,000 pilots, if Skywest were to vote in ALPA, they would be the only regional airline with their own executive Vice President. The Skywest MEC would elect one of their pilots to be their EVP and actually be part of ALPA national at the executive council and executive board meetings, with equal voting power as the EVP from UAL, DAL, FDX, regional airlines (pooled together). Skywest along with the EVP from the pooled regional airlines would have a lot of influence in ALPA national policy making.

Indirectly, yes. Hence the reason the proposed reduction in dues to 1.85% won't be good for the smaller groups, correct?

The kool-aid runs deep at OO. Most guys either can't or won't see the benefits of ALPA. Apparently we don't need a union, we have "guiding principles."

savedbythevnav
10-03-2018, 10:00 AM
You don't find it interesting that literally every ex SAPA rep supports getting a union on board? That should really be all you need to know.

Most current reps I have spoken to support ALPA.

The current SAPA President was on the Organizing Committee during the 2007 drive. Where he truly stands today, I'm not sure. Getting fired by SkyWest and re-hired may have changed his attitude towards management...

Winston
10-03-2018, 11:06 AM
Getting fired by SkyWest and re-hired may have changed his attitude towards management...

In psychology, itís called ďTraumatic BondingĒ:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_bonding

Nevjets
10-03-2018, 11:19 AM
Indirectly, yes. Hence the reason the proposed reduction in dues to 1.85% won't be good for the smaller groups, correct?



The kool-aid runs deep at OO. Most guys either can't or won't see the benefits of ALPA. Apparently we don't need a union, we have "guiding principles."



Yes, some of the dues money that mainline pilots pay, winds itís way to smaller MECs (not just regional airlines). The reasoning for lowering dues is as the membership grows, you can lower dues and still provide the same level of services. If they lower it, itíll be the second time in the last few years theyíve done so. And if APA merges with ALPA, I could see it go to 1.5%. Skywest joining could also be a catalyst to lowering dues considering the number of pilots, even before APA merges with ALPA.

savedbythevnav
10-03-2018, 11:20 AM
In psychology, itís called ďTraumatic BondingĒ:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_bonding

Is this Dr. Capt. RG himself?

gojo
10-03-2018, 01:13 PM
No. You donít need any more information. The word I used tells you all you need to know about that event. Check complete has raised suspicion of the integrity of our ASAP program. He has endangered a safety program out of ignorance or maliciousness.
Unacceptable.

Thatís some interesting interpolation SMH. I understood his reply referencing the value of a good legal teem in the event something happens. The other fact he mentions is Skywest doesnít have that luxury. Iím also pretty sure the merits of ASAP programs are also widely understood. And letís face it, without ALPA that wouldnít even exist at Skywest. But the point is, the ALPA, legal team would be in your corner if needed

Skyhawk121
10-03-2018, 01:36 PM
How long ago did this crew get term'd? I was asking some people in a crew lounge if they knew about anything recent and no one seemed to know what I was referring to.

rickair7777
10-03-2018, 02:08 PM
How long ago did this crew get term'd? I was asking some people in a crew lounge if they knew about anything recent and no one seemed to know what I was referring to.

Don't know, but guessing a low-speed event? SGU has been running a bit scared on those, probably for good reason.

Nevjets
10-03-2018, 02:51 PM
SENATE GIVES FINAL APPROVAL TO FAA REAUTHORIZATION
Today, ALPA commended Congress on the final passage of a five-year reauthorization of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) after the Senate passed the final bill in a 93Ė6 vote. The long-term bill will keep flying safe and the piloting profession strong.
"Today's final passage of the FAA reauthorization bill is a major step forward for the safety and security of our nation's skies. By keeping pilot qualification and training requirements strong and two fully qualified pilots in the cockpit, Congress has taken significant steps to ensure that flying remains the safest mode of transportationóand that the United States remains a global aviation leader," said Capt. Tim Canoll, ALPA president. "We are grateful for the bipartisan leadership in the House and Senate, and for the thousands of ALPA members who worked tirelessly to ensure that the priorities of the professional airline pilot were incorporated into this landmark agreement."

ALPA TESTIFIES BEFORE U.S. HOUSE ON INSIDER THREATS TO CARGO AND PASSENGER FLIGHTS
In testimony before the U.S. House Transportation and Protective Security Subcommittee, ALPA commended the recent aviation security improvements led by Congress but underscored that insider threats to both passenger, and particularly, all-cargo flight operations remain a serious concern.
"ALPA appreciates the leadership of Chairman Rep. John Katko (R-N.Y.) and Ranking Member Rep. Bonnie Watson Coleman (D-N.J.) and the subcommittee's interest in reducing the real threat posed by anyone with intent to harm while working inside the air transportation system," said Capt. Tim Canoll, ALPA's president, who testified at the hearing.
ALPA described an "insider" in aviation as someone with authorization and unescorted access to secured airport areas such as the security identification display area known as the "SIDA." Insider threats, which can result from such causes as malicious intent, complacency, or a lack of awareness, can result in actions such as the aircraft theft that occurred recently near SeattleĖTacoma International Airport.
The testimony also noted the danger posed to passenger and cargo flights as well as to communities on the ground. The Association called on Congress to help achieve one level of security for passenger and cargo flight operations with swift policy action including a requirement for hardened cockpit doors and secondary barriers on all commercial aircraft. http://www.alpa.org/news-and-events/news-room/2018-09-27-testimony-house-insider-threat-to-cargo-passenger-flights

HAZMAT WORKSHOP REMINDS SHIPPERS: "CHECK THE BOX"
Pictured here during the PHMSA workshop, left to right, Capt. DePete with Wes Westbrook and Marc Nichols of PHMSA.
On September 27, the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) held workshops in Anchorage, Alaska, to educate shippers of hazardous materials (hazmat) on the U.S. Department of Transportation's Hazardous Materials Regulationsówith a specific emphasis on undeclared hazmat.
Capt. Joe DePete, ALPA first vice president and national safety coordinator, praised PHMSA, stating that, "This is a game changeróthe carriage of undeclared hazardous materials is a safety concern that the ALPA has been working on for years. We are proud as a partner with PHMSA to provide the line-pilot perspective in addressing the risks posed by such items."
"Our focus isn't to stop hazardous materials shipments but quite the opposite," DePete continued. "We want to ensure that these shipments continue, but that they are done safely, and that shipments are properly declared, packaged, and labeled."
A new safety awareness initiative called "Check the Box" addresses the lack of industry and public awareness on the rules governing the shipment of hazmat. The campaign is designed to educate the public and industry on how some items, such as lithium batteries and other common household goods, pose hidden dangers if handled improperly. ALPA members can help spread the word on this important safety issue and education campaign.

ADVANCING SAFETY THROUGH COLLABORATION AT ASAP WORKSHOP
Yesterday in Minneapolis, Minn., industry professionals gathered for an Aviation Safety Action Program (ASAP) workshop hosted by ALPA's Air Safety Organization (ASO). The workshop fostered a collaborative environment for various stakeholdersóALPA MEC safety reps, airline management, and the FAAóto evaluate their programs openly and honestly. Discussions focused on program difficulties and successes, including development and implementation of best practices.
ALPA Aviation Safety chairman Capt. Steve Jangelis (DAL) opened the workshop, stating, "We are in the safest period we have ever been in aviation, but we can take that further."
Attendees participated in an active presentation by Capt. Dan Coogan (DAL), his carrier's Central Air Safety Committee chairman and ALPA Safety Information Analysis Program director, to advance ASAP and create a more robust reporting culture. The group discussed a range of topics including implementation of an ASAP administrative plan, the best ways to increase flow of critical safety information from a crew to the rest of the organization, and the long-awaited Advisory Circular 120-66C, which still has not been published.

PROMOTING IMPORTANCE OF VOLUNTARY SAFETY PROGRAMS AT ATC CONFERENCE
Today at the Air Traffic Control Association (ATCA) Conference in Washington, D.C., Capt. Steve Jangelis (DAL), ALPA's Aviation Safety chair, participated on a panel that discussed proactive safety in an evolving national airspace system.
Capt. Jangelis reiterated the importance of voluntary safety programs and how these programs have been essential in achieving the safety record that we have today. He shared with the audience the value of safety data and highlighted the importance of trust to ensuring the continued success of these programs.
As the panel discussed new technologies, Capt. Jangelis shared the importance of ensuring that we as an industry integrate human factors into every aspect of the design, implementation, and operations of these technologies. He reminded the group of the importance of building these new tools with the end users, both pilots and controllers, at the start of the conversation: "Operators must be involved in the process and ensure that the technologies work for us."

savedbythevnav
10-03-2018, 03:31 PM
Don't know, but guessing a low-speed event? SGU has been running a bit scared on those, probably for good reason.

A crew was term'd for a slow speed event (can we just call them stalls because they actually stalled). SAPA somehow got them their jobs back and TG overruled it and fired them anyway.

Allegedly.

I heard this from several people so it must be true, right?

word302
10-03-2018, 04:04 PM
A crew was term'd for a slow speed event (can we just call them stalls because they actually stalled). SAPA somehow got them their jobs back and TG overruled it and fired them anyway.

Allegedly.

I heard this from several people so it must be true, right?

A shaker or even a pusher is not a stall. Not trying to make light of the situation but very few people have actually stalled a transport category aircraft.

gojo
10-03-2018, 04:05 PM
A crew was term'd for a slow speed event (can we just call them stalls because they actually stalled). SAPA somehow got them their jobs back and TG overruled it and fired them anyway.

Allegedly.

I heard this from several people so it must be true, right?

Really, itís a stall. Because, arenít most Skywest flights slow speed events?

savedbythevnav
10-03-2018, 04:07 PM
Really, itís a stall. Because, arenít most Skywest flights slow speed events?

Faster than American, slower than Southwest!

da42pilot
10-03-2018, 05:55 PM
FYI just called the ALPA Aeromedical line today. Got a call back from a doctor about 10 minutes later to discuss my issue.

Paid nothing, apart from my dues.

Does SAPA have a doctor on call? I have no clue, maybe they do....

peepz
10-03-2018, 06:05 PM
FYI just called the ALPA Aeromedical line today. Got a call back from a doctor about 10 minutes later to discuss my issue.

Paid nothing, apart from my dues.

Does SAPA have a doctor on call? I have no clue, maybe they do....

Yes Sanjay Gupta is always on call for the best medical advice as long as he responds to the tweet though.

amcnd
10-03-2018, 06:12 PM
A shaker or even a pusher is not a stall. Not trying to make light of the situation but very few people have actually stalled a transport category aircraft.

Correct. More training coming on ďfull stallsĒ EET Training...

savedbythevnav
10-03-2018, 06:28 PM
Does SAPA have a doctor on call? I have no clue, maybe they do....

Only Dr. Capt. RG. The legend of SkyWest.

word302
10-03-2018, 08:52 PM
Only Dr. Capt. RG. The legend of SkyWest.

Ha 10 characters

DirkDiggler
10-04-2018, 05:41 AM
I donít think anyone can top our prestigious in-house doctor at XJT. The testicle snatcher moonlighting as a XJT CA

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.denverpost.com/2017/07/12/james-pennington-plea-deal-denver-testicle-removal/amp/

word302
10-04-2018, 11:54 AM
I donít think anyone can top our prestigious in-house doctor at XJT. The testicle snatcher moonlighting as a XJT CA

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.denverpost.com/2017/07/12/james-pennington-plea-deal-denver-testicle-removal/amp/

What in the actual????????

Paid2fly
10-04-2018, 12:50 PM
I don’t think anyone can top our prestigious in-house doctor at XJT. The testicle snatcher moonlighting as a XJT CA

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.denverpost.com/2017/07/12/james-pennington-plea-deal-denver-testicle-removal/amp/














Whoa, you won! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Bonanzer
10-05-2018, 05:08 AM
A crew was term'd for a slow speed event (can we just call them stalls because they actually stalled). SAPA somehow got them their jobs back and TG overruled it and fired them anyway.

Allegedly.

I heard this from several people so it must be true, right?

How do the safety committees work with no union? ASAP, foqa, fat ets. Are all the safety reps company personnel?

FlyyGuyy
10-05-2018, 05:44 AM
How do the safety committees work with no union? ASAP, foqa, fat ets. Are all the safety reps company personnel?

They are line pilots who volunteer for those positions. For some of them the company might have a designated representative for the same thing, they are supposed to work together. In theory.

SaltyDog
10-05-2018, 06:20 AM
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how ALPA works, as do many pilots. ALPA is best understood as a provider of resources to independent airline unions. If SkyWest were to join ALPA, they'd have access to attorneys, financial experts and a large strike fund. But the SkyWest pilot leadership would still have independence to negotiate and ratify the agreements that THEY consider best for their pilots. If you want to hold out for $150/hr for captains, you can. The Delta pilot at the top will not call you and tell you what you can and cannot do. Really. Get in touch with a rep from an ALPA carrier and ask how often they have received "negotiations instructions" from National. They'll tell you Never, it just doesn't work that way.

From ALPA website
"What We Do
ALPA represents and advocates for more than 60,000 pilots at 34 U.S. and Canadian airlines, making it the world’s largest airline pilot union. ALPA provides three critical services to its members: airline safety, security, and pilot assistance; representation; and advocacy. "

You appear to focus on 'assistance"
ALPA site statement on "Representation"
Representation: Over the decades, ALPA pilot groups have negotiated scores of contracts with hundreds of airlines. Today, ALPA staff offers its members the finest financial analysis available, in-depth knowledge of the Railway Labor Act (the legislation that governs airline pilot contracts), and the legal experience to defend pilot contracts. By leveraging the combined resources of all union members, ALPA is able to bring unmatched expertise to bear on matters affecting its members’ salary, benefits, and working conditions.

So how would/do the ALPA experts represent conflicted scope agenda's between mainline and legacy union members? Regional calls for best ALPA expertise on Scope and ALPA provides two messages and plans based on if regional or legacy? Conflicting aims.
Am an outsider, but that seems to be the friction point. You state many misunderstand ALPA, but ALPA publicly states representing all 60000 members. but how is it reconciled ALPA is assisting two "independent unions" with direct conflict scope interests?
Not disparaging ALPA. ALPA has secured many gains in our industry, but Scope is a salient point of cross conflict that many recognize. ALPA is CO dependent, not independent. Not a negative, but clearly 34 US and Canadian carriers cannot have exactly same aligned interests and often have conflicting interests.

SaltyDog
10-05-2018, 07:03 AM
Agree on union fundamental. Many successful independent unions (Southwest, American, UPS) plus Teamsters 1224 and 357 fight many battles. ALPA rarely if ever publicly recognizes these efforts in Washington in Congress and FAA etc. Independent unions fought for KCM etc same as ALPA, Many independent government affairs union reps at same place as ALPA folks and vice versa. However, public affairs does not demand independent unions claim credit. Just be in the battle for their own members interests. ALPA and independent unions work alongside each other in DC with collegiality more than vast majority of ALPA members would recognize in a variety of avenues.

Skywest pilots could also choose teamsters, they could choose independent. With number of pilots, not impossible to fund. Doubtful they would but the reality exists.

Broncofan
10-05-2018, 07:55 PM
There is no conflict of interest. ALPA national cannot compel any MEC what to negotiate for. No MEC can compel any other MEC what to negotiate for. Those are facts.

Mainline management negotiate with mainline MEC on wages, working conditions, and scope. Whatever isnít scoped into mainline flying is then put out to bid by mainline management for regional management to compete with. The regional management that wins the bid also negotiated with the regional MEC for the wages and working conditions of the flying that mainline MEC didnít/couldnít scope in during their negotiations with mainline management.

At no point can the mainline MEC dŪctate to the regional MEC on what to negotiate or settle for in the regional MECís negotiation with regional management. Also, regional MEC cannot negotiate for any flying that is scoped by mainline MECs. I mean, they can negotiate for $100/hr for 737 captain if they really want to, even if there isnít a 737 in their fleet. And mainline MECs couldnít do anything about it if that happened.

There is no conflict of interest. Each MEC decides what they want to negotiate for and ALPA national nor any other MEC can tell them otherwise.

I think it's a bit naive to think ALPA wouldn't choose legacy needs over a regional if push comes to shove. Sure ALPA has its separate MEC's that should remain independant, but head management in ALPA wouldn't let a regional need override a legacy need if they conflicted. That's just basic politics.

gojo
10-06-2018, 04:43 AM
I think it's a bit naive to think ALPA wouldn't choose legacy needs over a regional if push comes to shove. Sure ALPA has its separate MEC's that should remain independant, but head management in ALPA wouldn't let a regional need override a legacy need if they conflicted. That's just basic politics.

Maybe you could provide an example or two of how that might happen? Still aeromedical and legal alone are well worth 1.8%. Exactly what are you afraid of?

amcnd
10-06-2018, 10:52 AM
Maybe you could provide an example or two of how that might happen? Still aeromedical and legal alone are well worth 1.8%. Exactly what are you afraid of?

Im afraid of the next 5 years if alpa gets in.. Company will drag its feet. Alpa even disclosed the average time for a contract is 3-5 year. Thats light years in the regionals right now. We seem to have a management that want us to be at the top (but slightly below).

DirkDiggler
10-06-2018, 11:36 AM
Staffing will ultimately dictate how quickly you get a contract, Union or not.

Nevjets
10-06-2018, 11:47 AM
I think it's a bit naive to think ALPA wouldn't choose legacy needs over a regional if push comes to shove. Sure ALPA has its separate MEC's that should remain independant, but head management in ALPA wouldn't let a regional need override a legacy need if they conflicted. That's just basic politics.

Itís just a misunderstanding. Each pilot group is independent. Meaning that each MEC decides what they want to negotiate. So as far as contracts go, each is independent. Where pilot groups collaborate is on policy making on safety, security, and pilot assistance. So you may see some pilot groups prefer a certain policy over other pilot groups. And democracy wins in those situations. So technically, you are correct. But not so when it comes to individual contracts. Only on policy making.


From ALPA website
"What We Do
ALPA represents and advocates for more than 60,000 pilots at 34 U.S. and Canadian airlines, making it the worldís largest airline pilot union. ALPA provides three critical services to its members: airline safety, security, and pilot assistance; representation; and advocacy. "

You appear to focus on 'assistance"
ALPA site statement on "Representation"
Representation: Over the decades, ALPA pilot groups have negotiated scores of contracts with hundreds of airlines. Today, ALPA staff offers its members the finest financial analysis available, in-depth knowledge of the Railway Labor Act (the legislation that governs airline pilot contracts), and the legal experience to defend pilot contracts. By leveraging the combined resources of all union members, ALPA is able to bring unmatched expertise to bear on matters affecting its membersí salary, benefits, and working conditions.

So how would/do the ALPA experts represent conflicted scope agenda's between mainline and legacy union members? Regional calls for best ALPA expertise on Scope and ALPA provides two messages and plans based on if regional or legacy? Conflicting aims.
Am an outsider, but that seems to be the friction point. You state many misunderstand ALPA, but ALPA publicly states representing all 60000 members. but how is it reconciled ALPA is assisting two "independent unions" with direct conflict scope interests?
Not disparaging ALPA. ALPA has secured many gains in our industry, but Scope is a salient point of cross conflict that many recognize. ALPA is CO dependent, not independent. Not a negative, but clearly 34 US and Canadian carriers cannot have exactly same aligned interests and often have conflicting interests.

ALPA does a bad job of describing its structure, even for its own members. Basically, what all that is saying is that the pilot groups pool their resources together. And with the resources, they distribute it by providing resources to individual MECs by assigning attorneys, comm specialist, benefits specialist, financial analysis specialist, and other staff. Each MEC has these resources available every day of the year. Not to mention individual pilot resources like aeromedical, pilot assistance, HIMS, military/furlough liaison, Jumpseat, etc. And these pooled resources also provide money from the ďwar chestĒ (pooled resources over the decades), to MECs when in contract negotiations. Lastly, there is great institutional knowledge and relationships from a union this big that others donít have. There is no need to reinvent the wheel (or to figure out what a wheel is to begin with) and establish new relationships with politicians and policy makers. These are the advantages of ALPA.


Im afraid of the next 5 years if alpa gets in.. Company will drag its feet. Alpa even disclosed the average time for a contract is 3-5 year. Thats light years in the regionals right now. We seem to have a management that want us to be at the top (but slightly below).


As soon as a union (any union) is voted in, you go into status quo. Meaning that management cant unilaterally change, reinterpret, delete, or by any means give a different meaning to a policy that existed before you unionized. That alone is a positive. Right now, with the pilot shortage, pilots have more leverage than theyíve ever had before. So it probably will not be in the best interest of either side to wait 3 years before coming to a mutually beneficial first contract.

When it comes right to it, each pilot group goes through this status quo period when first unionizing. And right now is the best time to be in status quo than in any other period in the past. IF youíre going to unionize, this is the time to do it.

rickair7777
10-06-2018, 12:06 PM
Im afraid of the next 5 years if alpa gets in.. Company will drag its feet. Alpa even disclosed the average time for a contract is 3-5 year. Thats light years in the regionals right now. We seem to have a management that want us to be at the top (but slightly below).

Status quo, you keep what you have in the meantime. If it were me, I'd accept this TA and then get alpa (or any union, but alpa is the most practical I think).

DirkDiggler
10-06-2018, 01:13 PM
Alpa is definitely worth the 1.8% IMO. Iíve used the aeromedical service a few times. You can speak with an aviation doc confidentially within a few minutes if needed. Iíve known a handful of pilots to need legal representation where Alpa sent attorneys. One case was a turbulence incident in Canadian airspace causing injuries to Canadian citizens. Transport Canada wanted to bring the crew in for questioning. Alpa sent lawyers from DC to Ottawa and told the crew do not go to Canada or they will detain you. Ultimately the lawyers resolved it.

I have a hard time believing a management funded organization like SAPA would have your backs in the same manner.

SaltyDog
10-06-2018, 11:08 PM
ALPA does a bad job of describing its structure, even for its own members. Basically, what all that is saying is that the pilot groups pool their resources together. And with the resources, they distribute it by providing resources to individual MECs by assigning attorneys, comm specialist, benefits specialist, financial analysis specialist, and other staff. Each MEC has these resources available every day of the year. Not to mention individual pilot resources like aeromedical, pilot assistance, HIMS, military/furlough liaison, Jumpseat, etc. And these pooled resources also provide money from the ďwar chestĒ (pooled resources over the decades), to MECs when in contract negotiations. Lastly, there is great institutional knowledge and relationships from a union this big that others donít have. There is no need to reinvent the wheel (or to figure out what a wheel is to begin with) and establish new relationships with politicians and policy makers. These are the advantages of ALPA.


I'm part of an independent union that provides virtually all the same services and maintains relationships in DC as you describe for 1.5% dues. Very successful contracts as well.
Agree ALPA probably best opportunity for this pilot group because anecdotally appears a divided group that has many who see themselves bailing out fast, folks that are in an unprecedented job market opportunity unseen for 60 years. Not enough folks that see value in any long term pain for long term gain. Management win.

Nevjets
10-07-2018, 10:39 AM
I'm part of an independent union that provides virtually all the same services and maintains relationships in DC as you describe for 1.5% dues. Very successful contracts as well.

Agree ALPA probably best opportunity for this pilot group because anecdotally appears a divided group that has many who see themselves bailing out fast, folks that are in an unprecedented job market opportunity unseen for 60 years. Not enough folks that see value in any long term pain for long term gain. Management win.



Yes, and some of the independent pilot unions actually get these services by paying ALPA for them, like SWAPA and APA. And all of them collaborate with ALPA on summits, especially dealing with contracts and grievances. Also, itís always ALPA who is called on by congress to testify on a myriad of issues. And itís ALPA who gets a seat on different rule making committees, commissions and advisory boards. Itís rare to see any representatives of any of the independent unions (or CAPA) in any of these venues, Sully being the rare exception. And sometimes, the different pilot unions get in the way of each other, the IPA litigation of part 117 carve out as an example. One last thing, the influence that having another 4500+ pilots and the larger PAC that would provide, helps more than a handful of independent pilot unions using their smaller resources and influence. Thatís why I hope that the APA eventually mergers with ALPA. You can even call it APA but the larger the union, the more power it has.

SaltyDog
10-07-2018, 08:16 PM
Yes, and some of the independent pilot unions actually get these services by paying ALPA for them, like SWAPA and APA. And all of them collaborate with ALPA on summits, especially dealing with contracts and grievances. Also, itís always ALPA who is called on by congress to testify on a myriad of issues. And itís ALPA who gets a seat on different rule making committees, commissions and advisory boards. Itís rare to see any representatives of any of the independent unions (or CAPA) in any of these venues, Sully being the rare exception. And sometimes, the different pilot unions get in the way of each other, the IPA litigation of part 117 carve out as an example. One last thing, the influence that having another 4500+ pilots and the larger PAC that would provide, helps more than a handful of independent pilot unions using their smaller resources and influence. Thatís why I hope that the APA eventually mergers with ALPA. You can even call it APA but the larger the union, the more power it has.

I recognize the strengths of ALPA, your blinded by them to a fault. Im not. Seem quick to disparage other unions. LOL. That builds unity and collegiality. Other unions produce results as well in DC. Don't care ALPA gets and takes all the credit. Were stumping around in the halls and in the Administrators office. As long as we were all successful.
Glad to have met the rush chairman though. :)
Fraternally
SD

Nevjets
10-08-2018, 11:57 AM
I recognize the strengths of ALPA, your blinded by them to a fault. Im not. Seem quick to disparage other unions. LOL. That builds unity and collegiality. Other unions produce results as well in DC. Don't care ALPA gets and takes all the credit. Were stumping around in the halls and in the Administrators office. As long as we were all successful.

Glad to have met the rush chairman though. :)

Fraternally

SD



My intention was never to disparage other pilot unions. I understand they all have good people doing good work for the profession and especially for their members. I was just trying to make the point that we are better and stronger together. Like I said, call it APA or CAPA, but one unified entity would get better results, IMHO.

TheFly
10-11-2018, 10:39 AM
Talk about being close minded??? ALPA does a lot of good for the industry as a whole. The most resent being the fight to keep 2 pilots in the flight deck and NAI. I would call that beneficial to everyone. Not to mention programs you have been benefiting from for years. If youíre not going to help contribute to help these ongoing issues, I would hope that youíre at least contributing to the ALPA PAC fund.

I never said ALPA doesnít have benefits to the industry, you are insinuating that I did. I said that ALPA representing regional airlines hasnít proved beneficial, and history has shown that.

Mesa Airlines and other traditional low compensation regionals have been under the ALPA umbrella for years. Has their pay, contracts, work rules, QOL been top tier or competitive? Have they been treated with the same respect as their mainline brethren? Not at all. Regionals are the hens and as long as the fox guards the hen house, we canít truly be represented with our best interests at hand...

So...representation on a regional level would be nice, but ALPA is, has and will be dedicated to the majors interests first and foremost.

gojo
10-11-2018, 11:43 AM
I never said ALPA doesnít have benefits to the industry, you are insinuating that I did. I said that ALPA representing regional airlines hasnít proved beneficial, and history has shown that.

Mesa Airlines and other traditional low compensation regionals have been under the ALPA umbrella for years. Has their pay, contracts, work rules, QOL been top tier or competitive? Have they been treated with the same respect as their mainline brethren? Not at all. Regionals are the hens and as long as the fox guards the hen house, we canít truly be represented with our best interests at hand...

So...representation on a regional level would be nice, but ALPA is, has and will be dedicated to the majors interests first and foremost.

I donít know how many times itís been said on here that each MEC is independent from ALPA national as to the contracts they negotiate. But fine, believe what you want.

TheFly
10-11-2018, 12:23 PM
I donít know how many times itís been said on here that each MEC is independent from ALPA national as to the contracts they negotiate. But fine, believe what you want.

Itís not an issue of what one believes, but rather what the results of ALPAís relationships with regionals have been and the overall results. Period.

savedbythevnav
10-11-2018, 02:42 PM
Itís not an issue of what one believes, but rather what the results of ALPAís relationships with regionals have been and the overall results. Period.

And what are those relationships? Because once again, ALPA National and their relationships with each MEC has nothing to do with anything.

Also, bear in mind that the size of these pilot groups play a role as they donít have as much funding available. In some cases, arguably with Mesa, itís less than what SkyWest allocates to SAPA.

TheFly
10-11-2018, 10:27 PM
http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/aboutalpa/pilotgroups/CMRPGP2010.pdf

gojo
10-12-2018, 04:06 AM
http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/aboutalpa/pilotgroups/CMRPGP2010.pdf

That is so lame to bring that up. Many airlines including mainline were taking concessions around that time. Youíre really showing your ignorance

FTv3
10-12-2018, 06:06 AM
... but one unified entity would get better results, IMHO.

In terms of...? And for who? Speaking strictly about UPS (IPA) pilots under the UPS conglomerate (remember, using airplanes is just a small slice of what the company does), UPS is eccentric enough that having an independent union is more appropriate for our needs. We definitely did our fair share of lifting during the last round of pattern bargaining (thanks EB / Salty!!) and have been fully cooperative and supportive with essentially everything ALPA is behind so Iím not sure how detrimental our independance is in the big picture. That being said, it doesnít seem cost effective for regional guys to go independent. ALPA would be cheaper and everything would be right there and available as soon as the votes are tallied. Seems a no brainer.

I donít agree there is a conflict of interest issue. The real problem is unifying your group and then finding good leadership. Do that and the conflict of interest topic will become a moot point.

Best of luck to you guys, whichever way you go.

Truthanator
10-12-2018, 06:58 AM
That is so lame to bring that up. Many airlines including mainline were taking concessions around that time. You’re really showing your ignorance

Oh, ok....so tell us gojo....in the most profitable period in airline history since those times....what has ALPA done to get all those jobs back to mainline and stop the growth of regional airlines?

(it's a rhetorical question because the answer is nothing)

Thanks for playing the "showing your ignorance" game!:cool:

gojo
10-12-2018, 08:08 AM
Oh, ok....so tell us gojo....in the most profitable period in airline history since those times....what has ALPA done to get all those jobs back to mainline and stop the growth of regional airlines?

(it's a rhetorical question because the answer is nothing)

Thanks for playing the "showing your ignorance" game!:cool:

What are you even talking about?? Maybe provide an example? Post #162 is a good read for those that donít get it. And yes Iím still going to claim ignorance on your part and some others on here. If youíre only going to look for the negative, youíre never going to see the good. My question still remains, what does SAPA provide thatís worth 1.8% savings for union dues. Legal and aeromedical alone are worth that. I donít suppose you drive without auto insurance?

CRJLCA
10-12-2018, 09:50 AM
That is so lame to bring that up. Many airlines including mainline were taking concessions around that time. Youíre really showing your ignorance

SkyWest Pilots did not take concessions during that time. In fact, SkyWest did not furlough any pilots during this period and has never furloughed a pilot, ever.

gojo
10-12-2018, 05:27 PM
SkyWest Pilots did not take concessions during that time. In fact, SkyWest did not furlough any pilots during this period and has never furloughed a pilot, ever.

Oh yippy, kinda knew that already. Thatís why I said ďmany.Ē What exactly is your point? Maybe just serving more Skywest Koolaid?

SilentLurker
10-12-2018, 05:39 PM
Itís just a misunderstanding. Each pilot group is independent. Meaning that each MEC decides what they want to negotiate. So as far as contracts go, each is independent. Where pilot groups collaborate is on policy making on safety, security, and pilot assistance. So you may see some pilot groups prefer a certain policy over other pilot groups. And democracy wins in those situations. So technically, you are correct. But not so when it comes to individual contracts. Only on policy making.




ALPA does a bad job of describing its structure, even for its own members. Basically, what all that is saying is that the pilot groups pool their resources together. And with the resources, they distribute it by providing resources to individual MECs by assigning attorneys, comm specialist, benefits specialist, financial analysis specialist, and other staff. Each MEC has these resources available every day of the year. Not to mention individual pilot resources like aeromedical, pilot assistance, HIMS, military/furlough liaison, Jumpseat, etc. And these pooled resources also provide money from the ďwar chestĒ (pooled resources over the decades), to MECs when in contract negotiations. Lastly, there is great institutional knowledge and relationships from a union this big that others donít have. There is no need to reinvent the wheel (or to figure out what a wheel is to begin with) and establish new relationships with politicians and policy makers. These are the advantages of ALPA.





As soon as a union (any union) is voted in, you go into status quo. Meaning that management cant unilaterally change, reinterpret, delete, or by any means give a different meaning to a policy that existed before you unionized. That alone is a positive. Right now, with the pilot shortage, pilots have more leverage than theyíve ever had before. So it probably will not be in the best interest of either side to wait 3 years before coming to a mutually beneficial first contract.

When it comes right to it, each pilot group goes through this status quo period when first unionizing. And right now is the best time to be in status quo than in any other period in the past. IF youíre going to unionize, this is the time to do it.



REPOST!!!!! #FACTS... great job explaining facts!

SilentLurker
10-12-2018, 06:15 PM
SkyWest Pilots did not take concessions during that time. In fact, SkyWest did not furlough any pilots during this period and has never furloughed a pilot, ever.


Means nothing! I hear this all the time from Skywest drummers! But what does ďnever ever furloughedĒ really do for your Airline career?????

Will you not go to mainline for a career? But they have furloughed before.... So donít go mainline! Skywest is better destination than mainline right???? No union, no furlough, which is great right??? Because unions sucks for the entire industry! Why go to a place that has furloughed in the past??? Regionals donít need union safety programs and protection from Skywest managementís unilateral power... I guess pilots who need union protection, safety, and industry advocacy are weak pilots.

Save the mighty Skywest everyone else has furloughed. Wow! Letís clap for Skywest folks! They are non unionized and have never furloughed! Wooohooo! Yay! Congrats! Fill those classes cuz yíall never furloughed.

Seems Skywest Management will do everything possible to prevent a furlough in the future right????? So donít go to mainline yíall because you may get furloughed. Not being furloughed is the greatest thing! Itís worth not being unionized! :Sarcasm:

Who needs career protection, professional advocacy, and safety programs ALPA.Unions provide for our collective industry to benefit (including Skywest). Why bother when Skywest management can provide ďfurlough protection.Ē We all know furlough is the worse thing that can happen to your regional airline career! :Sarcasm:

amcnd
10-13-2018, 05:06 AM
^ wow. Lay off the roids.... (roid rage)

If you plan on flying for a major , pick any regional that will keep you close to family (so you can mooch off them) build your time, Have fun. Go to a major... Dont stress about the nonsense posted about every regional on this website..

savedbythevnav
10-13-2018, 06:56 AM
Not to mention we have policy for furlough at OO. They just haven't needed to use it. Will that always be the case? Time will tell.

You seem very upset. I'm guessing you have very little of anything worthwhile or fulfilling in your life. Glad that's not my problem.

rickair7777
10-13-2018, 07:36 AM
Means nothing! I hear this all the time from Skywest drummers! But what does ďnever ever furloughedĒ really do for your Airline career?????

Will you not go to mainline for a career? But they have furloughed before.... So donít go mainline! Skywest is better destination than mainline right???? No union, no furlough, which is great right??? Because unions sucks for the entire industry! Why go to a place that has furloughed in the past??? Regionals donít need union safety programs and protection from Skywest managementís unilateral power... I guess pilots who need union protection, safety, and industry advocacy are weak pilots.

Save the mighty Skywest everyone else has furloughed. Wow! Letís clap for Skywest folks! They are non unionized and have never furloughed! Wooohooo! Yay! Congrats! Fill those classes cuz yíall never furloughed.

Seems Skywest Management will do everything possible to prevent a furlough in the future right????? So donít go to mainline yíall because you may get furloughed. Not being furloughed is the greatest thing! Itís worth not being unionized! :Sarcasm:

Who needs career protection, professional advocacy, and safety programs ALPA.Unions provide for our collective industry to benefit (including Skywest). Why bother when Skywest management can provide ďfurlough protection.Ē We all know furlough is the worse thing that can happen to your regional airline career! :Sarcasm:

A union is a legit internal debate at SKW. But you have absolutely nothing to do with that at all, so why get your panties in a wad?

If OO joins alpa, I think that will be good for them (OO pilots) in the long term, but it's not going to change how the regional industry works.

You need something else in life to expend your emotional energy on.

Nevjets
10-14-2018, 09:02 AM
I never said ALPA doesnít have benefits to the industry, you are insinuating that I did. I said that ALPA representing regional airlines hasnít proved beneficial, and history has shown that.

Mesa Airlines and other traditional low compensation regionals have been under the ALPA umbrella for years. Has their pay, contracts, work rules, QOL been top tier or competitive? Have they been treated with the same respect as their mainline brethren? Not at all. Regionals are the hens and as long as the fox guards the hen house, we canít truly be represented with our best interests at hand...

So...representation on a regional level would be nice, but ALPA is, has and will be dedicated to the majors interests first and foremost.


ALPA is a collection of independent unions. Each MEC decides on their own what they negotiate, even if its a not an "ideal" contract. All MEC reps do come together (ALPA National) to create national policy on safety, security, and pilot assistance goals.


Just because one pilot group has historically been low compared to others doesn't mean its because that pilot group is part of ALPA versus being an independent union. The regional MECs are dedicated to their own interests first. And the mainline MECs are also dedicated to their own interests firsts. But when those reps come together (ALPA National), they are not trying to align their individual interests in terms of what contract they negotiate. Those forums are done separately in which regional MECs meet together and separately, mainline MECs meet with one another to discuss bargaining strategy.


In terms of...? And for who? Speaking strictly about UPS (IPA) pilots under the UPS conglomerate (remember, using airplanes is just a small slice of what the company does), UPS is eccentric enough that having an independent union is more appropriate for our needs. We definitely did our fair share of lifting during the last round of pattern bargaining (thanks EB / Salty!!) and have been fully cooperative and supportive with essentially everything ALPA is behind so Iím not sure how detrimental our independance is in the big picture. That being said, it doesnít seem cost effective for regional guys to go independent. ALPA would be cheaper and everything would be right there and available as soon as the votes are tallied. Seems a no brainer.

I donít agree there is a conflict of interest issue. The real problem is unifying your group and then finding good leadership. Do that and the conflict of interest topic will become a moot point.

Best of luck to you guys, whichever way you go.


FedEx is just as big, if not bigger of a conglomerate as UPS and they went from ALPA, tried independent, then back to ALPA. If there is any pilot group that understands the pros and cons of independent versus ALPA, its FedEx. And yet they chose to go back to ALPA. Look, all I'm saying is that each ALPA MEC is as independent as any other pilot union. The difference is that all the ALPA pilot groups pool their resources for the collective good of the piloting profession.



It all comes down to influence with decision makers. And they reside in DC. The bigger the union, the more influence (money and people) they can exert on the policy makers who have drastic control of our QOL in their hands. To me, being independent on what you negotiate in your contract and also pooling resources with all other pilot groups in order to effect change for the piloting profession as a whole, is the better of the two.


Oh, ok....so tell us gojo....in the most profitable period in airline history since those times....what has ALPA done to get all those jobs back to mainline and stop the growth of regional airlines?

(it's a rhetorical question because the answer is nothing)

Thanks for playing the "showing your ignorance" game!:cool:


This underlines some of the points I've made. Only mainline MECs (not ALPA National) can decide they want to use their bargaining capital to bring back flying. But its up to them to do so. No one can force them to negotiate that just like no one can force a regional MEC to negotiate (insert your favorite topic here). And to add to that, just because, for example, the UAL MEC decides they want to bring 76+ seat jets back to mainline, doesn't mean they will be successful in negotiating that with their management. This is one of the reasons why each MEC is independent. Each pilot group has different circumstances and priorities to deal with.


SkyWest Pilots did not take concessions during that time. In fact, SkyWest did not furlough any pilots during this period and has never furloughed a pilot, ever.


Each pilot group has their own set of circumstances to deal with. For example, when AAL, DAL, UAL, NWA, CAL were all dealing with bankruptcies, their MEC negotiated under those circumstances to mitigate the bad. But at the same time, SWA, FDX, UPS were all doing financially good. So their pilot groups were negotiating under those circumstances.


The point is, its not always about comparing the results of each pilot groups' MECs efforts. Its about looking at how each MEC can leverage their particular circumstances to the benefit of their own pilots. And that means that in bad times, you try to insulate your pilot group. And in good times, you try to make hay.



One more point, every pilot group is one CEO away from working for the next JO or Lorenzo. That is another airline specific circumstance that you have to take into consideration. You may not have the Kelleher or Bethune for your CEO. And so you may need to scratch and crawl for every single little thing that is normally a given at other airlines, such as the ASAP program in that Comair article posted earlier. At Comair, their management was screwing with their ASAP. So the MEC had to make the hard choice to withdraw form that MOU. And then they had to use some of their bargaining capital just to get it back. At Mesa, they had to deal with an alter ego airline. Their CEO has put them in a trajectory where it is increasingly difficult to raise the bar. But at Skywest, where things have been financially excellent for the company for, literally, decades you would hope that they weren't just in the middle of the pack. There will ALWAYS be a regional that has on industry leading contract, ALWAYS. Why shouldn't it be Skywest as opposed to Republic or Endeavor?



A pilot union is about leveraging your own airline's circumstances to the benefit of the pilots. Without a pilot union, you only have one side leveraging the circumstances but not in favor of the pilots. Unionizing just tries to balance those forces. ALPA just pools the resources for you to try to better do that.

Nevjets
10-18-2018, 09:51 AM
https://youtu.be/GAWzQtpUHoc

Truthanator
10-21-2018, 09:03 AM
ALPA is a collection of independent unions. Each MEC decides on their own what they negotiate, even if its a not an "ideal" contract. All MEC reps do come together (ALPA National) to create national policy on safety, security, and pilot assistance goals.


Just because one pilot group has historically been low compared to others doesn't mean its because that pilot group is part of ALPA versus being an independent union. The regional MECs are dedicated to their own interests first. And the mainline MECs are also dedicated to their own interests firsts. But when those reps come together (ALPA National), they are not trying to align their individual interests in terms of what contract they negotiate. Those forums are done separately in which regional MECs meet together and separately, mainline MECs meet with one another to discuss bargaining strategy.
.

Gmafb. More ALPA brainwashing. Same as management.:rolleyes:

During the most profitable decade in airline history, ALPA has helped to allow "regional" flying to grow to an unprecedented level, and given even more mainline flying away.

Your lame attempts to portray ALPA as some bastion of this profession is just more garbage to get pilots to fork over dues for nothing real in return....specifically at the "regional" airlines. It's total garbage. There is zero return at the "regional" airlines.

This whole "it's all up to each individual MEC" is the biggest load of all the ALPA brainwashing crap. By this reasoning, EVERY single "regional" MEC has been a giant pile of elephant dung. Every. Single. One.
How many pitiful examples do you need?

The sad part is all these "brothers" of mine that get mad at the truth, and still point fingers at "regional" pilots as if they had a single f'ing choice in all of this.

Nevjets
10-21-2018, 12:40 PM
Gmafb. More ALPA brainwashing. Same as management.[emoji57]



During the most profitable decade in airline history, ALPA has helped to allow "regional" flying to grow to an unprecedented level, and given even more mainline flying away.



Your lame attempts to portray ALPA as some bastion of this profession is just more garbage to get pilots to fork over dues for nothing real in return....specifically at the "regional" airlines. It's total garbage. There is zero return at the "regional" airlines.



This whole "it's all up to each individual MEC" is the biggest load of all the ALPA brainwashing crap. By this reasoning, EVERY single "regional" MEC has been a giant pile of elephant dung. Every. Single. One.

How many pitiful examples do you need?



The sad part is all these "brothers" of mine that get mad at the truth, and still point fingers at "regional" pilots as if they had a single f'ing choice in all of this.


I can say that ALPA is not a silver bullet. Like any organization made up of humans, itís no infallible. But having a bad apple in a bucket isnít a knock against all the apples in the bucket.

Like I said before, individual union pilot group (not just ALPA) success correlates more along the specific circumstances at each respective airline. So itís more about using collective bargaining to maximize any leverage that may be available in order to maximize the benefit or mitigate the negative during the bad times (bankruptcy era. For example, if you take Mesa, do you honestly believe they would have been better off without a union? You can say the same about Republic going through bankruptcy, or TSA dealing with HK? Or XJT dealing with Skywest and a merger with ASA? None of those regionals have done anything close to remarkable. But they certainly have been better off with a union than without one. If you donít believe that, then I donít truly think you can be objective on the matter.

My best argument for ALPA specifically, not just a pilot union, is the safety and security advocacy. ALPA has done and continues to benefit our profession.

SilentLurker
10-21-2018, 04:44 PM
Gmafb. More ALPA brainwashing. Same as management.:rolleyes:



During the most profitable decade in airline history, ALPA has helped to allow "regional" flying to grow to an unprecedented level, and given even more mainline flying away.



Your lame attempts to portray ALPA as some bastion of this profession is just more garbage to get pilots to fork over dues for nothing real in return....specifically at the "regional" airlines. It's total garbage. There is zero return at the "regional" airlines.



This whole "it's all up to each individual MEC" is the biggest load of all the ALPA brainwashing crap. By this reasoning, EVERY single "regional" MEC has been a giant pile of elephant dung. Every. Single. One.

How many pitiful examples do you need?



The sad part is all these "brothers" of mine that get mad at the truth, and still point fingers at "regional" pilots as if they had a single f'ing choice in all of this.



Famous words, until a day (God forbids) you get all twined in a bundle of a situation more unfortunate than the likes of Sully, and your heart sinks into your self-righteously enlarged scrotum.

Truth is relative to perspectives and personal gain or loss. In your case perceived financial loss from ďdues.Ē

Nevjets
10-28-2018, 04:40 PM
https://youtu.be/nPHCIVhvxwk

savedbythevnav
10-29-2018, 06:56 AM
https://youtu.be/nPHCIVhvxwk

Still waiting on a SAPA app! :rolleyes:

rickair7777
10-29-2018, 09:41 AM
https://youtu.be/nPHCIVhvxwk

Did my most expensive magazine just evolve into my most expensive app?

I keed.

domino
10-29-2018, 01:39 PM
The ďnever furloughedĒ argument is pointless now. That period was when the company had less than 2500 pilots and also had a split of CRJs and turboprops. Even when they needed to lay off a few 100, the hassle of all the extra training didnít make sense. Times change. Now they have 5000 pilots plus and no turboprops. So they will furlough during the next downturn. In the bottom 500? Have a back up plan.

Nevjets
10-30-2018, 10:25 AM
Did my most expensive magazine just evolve into my most expensive app?



I keed.


I know you are just kidding so this isnít directed specifically at you but this little saying, most expensive magazine, is grossly ignorant. Personally, if I felt this way, I would endeavor to find out everything ALPA does with dues money. Unfortunately, ALPA is not the best at informing their members on what all they do, except for ironically, through the very magazine and emails that many people trash as soon as they get it.

Nevjets
10-31-2018, 12:59 PM
ALPA PRESIDENT SHARES PERSPECTIVES AT NEXTGEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE
ALPA president Capt. Tim Canoll represented ALPA members at the NextGen Advisory Committee (NAC) today. Capt. Canoll's participation in the NAC ensures that ALPA members are represented at the national level on critical issues such as implementation of performance-based navigation, data communications, automatic dependent surveillance broadcast (ADS-B), airspace redesign, and all the associated transition challenges that are routinely encountered.
At today's meeting, the NAC approved the NextGen Priorities Rolling Plan, which provides a three-year strategic roadmap to guide the FAA and industry initiatives for performance-based navigation, multiple runway operation, surface and data sharing, and data communications.
The widely varying degrees of aircraft equipage capabilities and the equipage impacts on NextGen initiatives were discussed extensively. NAC members, including ALPA, support NextGen initiatives provided that the aircraft are adequately equipped.
"Pilots are asked to fly increasingly complex procedures," Capt. Canoll remarked. "While airspace capacity and efficiency are important, implementing procedures that would add risk to the operations must be avoided at all costsóthis includes new procedures designed to accommodate noise or other environmental concerns. Safety must come first."
The NAC is a federal advisory committee that provides recommendations to the FAA on policy-level issues facing the FAA and the aviation community in implementing the Next Generation Air Transportation System, the ongoing air traffic control modernization initiative. The NAC membership includes 31 executive-level aviation industry leaders who represent their organizations.

ALPA REMINDS SPACE STAKEHOLDERS: SAFETY COMES FIRST
Capt. Marc Henegar (ALA), the Air Traffic Services chair of ALPA's Air Safety Organization (ASO), reminded hundreds of participants gathered at the FAA's 2018 Commercial Space Symposium in Washington, D.C., that the safety of airline passengers, cargo, and crewmembers needs to remain at the forefront of work underway to integrate commercial space operations into the national airspace system (NAS). The two-day event largely focused on how policy, operations, and technology will shape commercial space integration.
Henegar participated on the last panel, Opportunities and Challenges with Integrating Commercial Space, which was billed as a cross-industry discussion. The conversation highlighted the challenges the NAS will face and opportunities to safely integrate space operations across the NAS. Other panelists represented JetBlue Airlines, SpaceX, and Blue Origin.
ďDeveloping air traffic control and pilot tools that will allow safe separation between aircraft operations and space operations while maintaining the current level of safety in the NAS are essential to integrate new entrants. We need to get commercial space and commercial aviation talking more to develop solutions that create consensus between the two industries. The safety of the NAS depends on industry collaboration," Henegar told the audience.
The conference included participants from several government agencies including the FAA, as well as representatives from the commercial space, and aviation industries.

MEMBERS RECEIVE AWARD FOR AIRFIELD SAFETY
On October 16, Captains Mike Maas (ENY, retired) and Jeffrey Sedin (UAL) were presented with the first-ever Captain Mack Moore for Airfield Safety Award by the Chicago Department of Aviation for their work on the airport's Runway Safety Action Team (RSAT).
The award is named for the longtime ALPA Airport and Ground Environment (AGE) chairman and safety volunteer, Capt. Mack Moore (UAL, deceased), who retired in 2003 and passed away in 2012. Capt. Moore received the 2001 ALPA Safety Award for his leadership of the Association's AGE Group, Regional Safety structure, and Airport Liaison Representative program, now the Airport Safety Liaison program. He also developed ALPA's airport liaison training course and contributed to efforts for reducing runway incursions, which improved industry relations with airport operators.
Both Maas and Sedin, the current AGE chair, worked with Moore. "I first met Mack at a meeting in 1993 when I had first begun safety work with ALPA," Capt. Maas recalled. "I had been looking around, trying to find my niche in safety. I was always interested in airport issues. Mack explained the airport liaison program to me, and so I became a rep."
"Mack always stressed the importance of the basics in safety," Sedin recounted. "The issues may have grown with advancements in technology, but he never lost sight of the fundamentals like communications and resource management. It was that approach that made him an invaluable resource to ALPA and aviation safety, and I can't thank him enough for instilling that in me."

CELEBRATING GIRLS IN AVIATION DAY
Approximately 15,000 girls around the world experienced the joy and wonder of aviation during the fourth annual Girls in Aviation Day on October 13. Events, held by Women in Aviation International (WAI) chapters, featured a wide range of speakers and activities to promote aviation careers to girls ages 8 to 17.
ALPA Education Committee volunteers served as role models, participating in several U.S. events to inspire future aviators and provide them with the resources they need to get to the flight deck. Share your story and/or photos with [email protected]
On the east coast, 200 girls attended WAI's Capital Regional Chapter event at the Culpeper Airport in Virginia. They had an opportunity to enjoy the Culpeper Air Fest, tour aircraft and static displays, and take part in activities such as simulator training for hands-on experience. F/Os Kaori Paris (UAL) and Laura Woods (DAL) staffed a booth to talk with girls about what it takes to be a professional airline pilot. They also hosted a selfie station where girls could dress up like an airline or military pilot and take photos.
In the midwest, the WAI chapter at Parks College in St. Louis, Mo., hosted its event a day early. Approximately 100 high school girls attended and learned about various aviation professions. F/O Sara Baer (ALA) shared her experiences flying while a panel of flight instructors and a dispatcher spoke about aviation courses at Parks College, pilot training, and related topics. The highlight of the event was an inspirational key note speech from Capt. Stephanie Johnson, the first African American female captain at Delta Air Lines.
F/O Baer then jetted to the west coast to participate in WAI's Washington State Chapter event in Snohomish, Wash. There, she talked with 25 middle and high school female students about being an airline pilot and answered a lot of good questions. The students also explored static airplanes at the field, toured a skydiving facility, and saw a Medevac helicopter.
While each event was different, all shared the same excitement, and many girls walked away with an aviation career path in mind.

Nevjets
11-16-2018, 01:40 PM
CALLING ON FAA TO APPLY FAR PART 107 TO MODEL/HOBBY DRONES

On Tuesday, at an unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) integration conference hosted by the American Association of Airport Executives in Houston, F/O Chris Lucius (UAL) called on the FAA to apply FAR Part 107 to model and hobby drone pilots. Lucius, a UAS subject-matter expert from ALPA's Air Safety Organization, spoke on a panel discussing the recently signed FAA reauthorization legislation that makes significant changes to the rules governing recreational drones.
"The easiest and perhaps fastest way for the FAA to regulate recreational sUAS is to bring all sUAS flight operations under 14 CFR Part 107óSmall Unmanned Aircraft Systems," Lucius told the other panelists and audience. "That would satisfy most, if not all, the requirements in Section 349 of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018."
The law, passed last month by Congress and signed by President Trump, authorizes the FAA to fully regulate all UAS for safety or security purposes. During the discussion, panelists explored how the new law will impact the operation and safety of sUAS, particularly near airports, and affect the safe integration of UAS into the national airspace.


ASO PARTICIPATES IN WAKE TURBULENCE STUDY FOCUSED ON IMPROVING SAFETY

Last week, ALPA Air Safety Organization Aircraft Design and Operations Group chair Bryan Lesko (UAL) participated in an FAA study focused on wake vortex encounters on takeoff. The goal is for the FAA to collect data to support the upcoming Wake Turbulence Recategorization (RECAT) activities and overall development of enroute and terminal separation.
The Human in the Loop (HITL) simulation was held at the Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center in Oklahoma City and included flight crews from Delta, Sun Country, and United. The simulator session study consisted of landings and departure with wake events of various intensity, altitude, and duration. Each wake event was evaluated based on pitch and roll rates and angles, yaw, and altitude loss.
ALPA's Aircraft Design and Operations Group has been actively involved in the FAA's Wake RECAT activities ensuring that any decrease in separation does not degrade the safety of the national airspace system. Relatedly, Dr. Edward Johnson, FAA's chief scientist and technical advisor for wake turbulence, provided attendees of the 2017 ALPA Air Safety Forum with a briefing on the basics of Wake RECAT.


CONTINUING ADVOCACY FOR LITHIUM BATTERY SAFETY

ALPA representatives recently advocated at the International Aircraft Systems Fire Protection Forum in Atlantic City, N.J., for definitive performance standards for containment products for lithium battery fires that can be used on the flight deck or cabin of the aircraft. The event had more than 100 attendees representing international regulators, aircraft manufacturers, the airline industry, and fire test research engineers.
Capt. Boomer Bombardi (DAL), a smoke, fire, and fumes subject-matter expert from ALPA's Air Safety Organization, joined by a staff expert from ALPA's Engineering and Air Safety Department, called for regulations and guidance related to smoke detection, penetration, and evacuation testing to be updated to mitigate this hazard. Current regulations require manufacturers to demonstrate that smoke will not penetrate the flight deck from the cabin, and if that happens, the smoke must be reduced. ALPA is urging that the regulations be revised to reflect that dense smoke generated from an electronic flight bag in thermal runaway inside the flight deck must be removed to allow pilots to see their instruments and fly the aircraft.


PROMOTING AVIATION SAFETY AT ANNUAL INTERNATIONAL SAFETY SUMMIT

The Flight Safety Foundation's annual International Aviation Safety Summit was held this week with strong participation from ALPA. Hosted by Boeing, more than 400 attendees from all regions of the world gathered in Seattle, Wash., to discuss the challenges and opportunities that are facing the aviation industry.
On Monday, Capt. Rich Hughey (FDX), ALPA President's Committee for Cargo (PCFC) chair, discussed the differences in levels of safety between all-cargo and passenger/cargo operations. "There is still a lot of work to be done in order to achieve one level of safety," Hughey said.
ALPA Air Safety Organization (ASO) aviation safety chair Capt. Steve Jangelis (DAL) participated on a panel discussion titled "Airport Surface Issues." Jangelis also provided ALPA's perspective on the increased amount of data that is available for safety analysis. "The level of trust between the regulator, airlines, and pilots is critical to the continued success of safety data programs," he reminded the international audience.
Presentations from regulators, air traffic service providers, accident investigators, airlines, and scientists all focused on how to advance global aviation safety.

RegionalDriver
11-17-2018, 04:46 PM
We NEED ALPA or real representation to protect our careers when we make mistakes and to track and improve safety for us AND our customers. ALPA was created as "Schedule for Safety" and now the mission is much more important than ever.



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