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View Full Version : How many LORs are too much?


asolo
09-06-2018, 05:37 AM
I have an interview coming up and was curious to see if anyone had any input as to how many Letters of Rec would be too many. I have 3 internal recs and have an additional 5-6 LOR from current and past co-workers and bosses. Would that be too many? I’m kind of thinking that previous bosses (2) and maybe 1-2 other co-workers in addition to the internal recs would be sufficient.

If I turn in, say, 10 LOR would it seem as if I’m trying to compensate or cover something? It seems as if many have 3-5 or so. What do you all think?

Thanks
Asolo


Smooth at FL450
09-06-2018, 06:31 AM
I have an interview coming up and was curious to see if anyone had any input as to how many Letters of Rec would be too many. I have 3 internal recs and have an additional 5-6 LOR from current and past co-workers and bosses. Would that be too many? Iím kind of thinking that previous bosses (2) and maybe 1-2 other co-workers in addition to the internal recs would be sufficient.

If I turn in, say, 10 LOR would it seem as if Iím trying to compensate or cover something? It seems as if many have 3-5 or so. What do you all think?

Thanks
Asolo


The only people that will read/consider your LORs are the chief pilots if you make it to the decision board. Your letters can be what pushes you over the fence, so if you feel that you can get that many strong letters, then go for it. Better to have too many than not enough. Internal recs (submitted via out internal swalife website) are very valuable. Good luck!

flyguy81
09-06-2018, 06:48 AM
I had like 7. I met a guy a couple years ago who had like 45. Had his whole squadron write him one or something. So more than 3 and less than 45?


CaptYoda
09-06-2018, 08:48 AM
On the LOR subject, I would say no more than 10 including your internals. (my opinion). I think it also depends on the quality and depth of the LOR. It's better to have fewer well written and elaborate LOR's than have a flood of them with a lot of fluff.
Was there a DB yesterday? If so, any calls and background of successful applicants? Congratulations in advance.

at6d
09-06-2018, 01:45 PM
Chiefs may get the letters and provide a thumbs up or down, but know that if HR says ďnoĒ at the interview, itís over and no chief pilot can override it.

asolo
09-06-2018, 06:22 PM
Thanks for the replies ! I think Iím going to stick with the high quality LORs.

Squallrider
09-08-2018, 09:21 AM
Southwest loves internals so Iíd have as many of those as you can get (LinkedIn is your friend) , I had those my chief pilots and since I was a captain /lca I had a few students / FOs write one, helps for recentsy.

badpilot4life
09-08-2018, 05:36 PM
Thanks for the replies ! I think I’m going to stick with the high quality LORs.

Do not over read this, I had good friends of 20+ years write a couple letters about our friendship etc. Its ok to show you are a human, in my case it worked out.

BarrySeal
09-08-2018, 06:36 PM
what would cause "HR" to thumbs-down a guy ?


It appears the SWA process, aka interview, 7-minute exercise, logbook review, etc is pilot-heavy


yes ?

Smooth at FL450
09-08-2018, 07:12 PM
what would cause "HR" to thumbs-down a guy ?


It appears the SWA process, aka interview, 7-minute exercise, logbook review, etc is pilot-heavy


yes ?

Donít lie. Donít be weird. Donít be a dick.
The day is pilot-heavy but the people department has their say in the process. If the candidate gets the thumbs up from everyone but the recruiter, very likely the candidate will move on to the decision board for final word. This is where solid letters of rec come in handy in case the recruiter saw a character trait that raised red flags.

BarrySeal
09-08-2018, 07:21 PM
Donít lie. Donít be weird. Donít be a dick.
The day is pilot-heavy but the people department has their say in the process. If the candidate gets the thumbs up from everyone but the recruiter, very likely the candidate will move on to the decision board for final word. This is where solid letters of rec come in handy in case the recruiter saw a character trait that raised red flags.


thank you..............

at6d
09-09-2018, 12:13 AM
what would cause "HR" to thumbs-down a guy ?


It appears the SWA process, aka interview, 7-minute exercise, logbook review, etc is pilot-heavy


yes ?

There are three gates:

Logbook audit
Line Ops evaluation
HR/pilot interview

I donít mean to scare anyone, but I promise you that if for whatever reason you donít impress the HR rep and he/she says ďno,Ē the chiefís board can do NOTHING about it, even if you do great on the ďpilotĒ portions.

This is current policy, and I donít like it.

What could you screw up? Your answers to their questions. Do you exhibit combative behaviors? I donít know...but I and others have physically walked in and asked chiefs about this policy.

Seems like HR holds a bigger hammer than the pilots when it comes to hiring.

CaptYoda
09-09-2018, 04:20 AM
So if HR says No, then is it fair to assume that the applicant won't even make it to the DB, since the DB cannot apparently override HR.

RJSAviator76
09-09-2018, 04:29 AM
The key to success here perfectly and eloquently stated:

Don’t lie. Don’t be weird. Don’t be a dick.

SlipKid
09-09-2018, 07:11 AM
On the LOR subject, I would say no more than 10 including your internals. (my opinion). I think it also depends on the quality and depth of the LOR. It's better to have fewer well written and elaborate LOR's than have a flood of them with a lot of fluff.

Definitely.

And to add to that, letters from folks that you have actually flown with carry a lot more weight than those that you have not. Internals that you've flown with are probably best, so long as they aren't screw ups at work.

They do call the references, so the more personal experience the person writing the letter has with you, the better. Provided that the experiences were all good, of course! :D

Good luck!

at6d
09-09-2018, 07:41 AM
So if HR says No, then is it fair to assume that the applicant won't even make it to the DB, since the DB cannot apparently override HR.

What I was told by a current chief is that at the DB they canít overturn it. They can still provide input about the two pilot sections, just not HR.

Hey, I want somebody to tell me Iím wrong and itís not the policy!

Smooth at FL450
09-09-2018, 09:42 AM
What I was told by a current chief is that at the DB they canít overturn it. They can still provide input about the two pilot sections, just not HR.

Hey, I want somebody to tell me Iím wrong and itís not the policy!

This really isnít an accurate portrayal of what happens. There is no ďHR sectionĒ. There is a consensus formed by the logbook reviewer (pilot) and the panel interview team (pilot&recruiter). If the 3 of them agree to ďnot continueĒ the candidate, then it stops there and the selection process is done. If the 3 interviewers can not come to an agreement, the candidate will move on for further review and final decision is made by the chief pilots. This is where the quality of the references can make a big difference.

In the past, chief pilots could resurrect/save a candidate that didnít pass the interview selection, but legal put an end to that.

at6d
09-09-2018, 11:48 AM
This really isnít an accurate portrayal of what happens. There is no ďHR sectionĒ. There is a consensus formed by the logbook reviewer (pilot) and the panel interview team (pilot&recruiter). If the 3 of them agree to ďnot continueĒ the candidate, then it stops there and the selection process is done. If the 3 interviewers can not come to an agreement, the candidate will move on for further review and final decision is made by the chief pilots. This is where the quality of the references can make a big difference.

In the past, chief pilots could resurrect/save a candidate that didnít pass the interview selection, but legal put an end to that.

The ďrecruiterĒ is from People Department, correct? Thatís HR.

What I am saying is the People Department/Pilot table discussion event seems to hold more weight than the other two events.

As a side note, what division would a retired former Chief represent during a panel interview?

Smooth at FL450
09-09-2018, 04:46 PM
The ďrecruiterĒ is from People Department, correct? Thatís HR.

What I am saying is the People Department/Pilot table discussion event seems to hold more weight than the other two events.

As a side note, what division would a retired former Chief represent during a panel interview?


when it comes to forming a consensus decision on the candidate, the LOI is one piece and the logbook/panel decision is the other. The recruiter is making the consensus decision with 2 other pilots in the room.

Warhawg01
09-09-2018, 04:54 PM
What happens in the LOI goes straight to the Chief Pilots ó the HR rep and panel interview pilot along with the logbook pilot have no idea.

If you donít make it to the DB, you did something in the other two interviews and those (one, two or three) people, somehow decided.

Smooth at FL450
09-09-2018, 06:30 PM
What happens in the LOI goes straight to the Chief Pilots ó the HR rep and panel interview pilot along with the logbook pilot have no idea.

If you donít make it to the DB, you did something in the other two interviews and those (one, two or three) people, somehow decided.

This is accurate

CaptYoda
09-10-2018, 05:15 AM
If they call references(internal and external), is it safe to say you made it to the DB?

Smooth at FL450
09-10-2018, 06:03 AM
If they call references(internal and external), is it safe to say you made it to the DB?


Yes. Safe to say

at6d
09-10-2018, 01:00 PM
If they call references(internal and external), is it safe to say you made it to the DB?

Yes! Best of luck.

CaptYoda
09-11-2018, 03:31 PM
Does the DB convene in DAL each time or is it a video-conferencing event?

Smooth at FL450
09-11-2018, 06:51 PM
Does the DB convene in DAL each time or is it a video-conferencing event?

I believe itís by speaker phone. It used to be in Dallas until a couple years ago.

CaptYoda
09-12-2018, 07:47 AM
Thanks for the information. Do the calls go out the same day(afternoon) after the DB or on the days following.

BigWillyCapt
09-12-2018, 09:06 AM
Most of the calls go out that afternoon. But times can vary. I've heard of calls going out late in the evening and once in a long while, the next morning. They spread out the calls between the Chief Pilots and they make the calls when they can I guess.

CaptYoda
09-12-2018, 11:38 AM
Calls went out this afternoon for the 9/12/2018 DB.

OB Pilot
09-12-2018, 11:46 AM
Calls went out this afternoon for the 9/12/2018 DB.

So did you get some good news?

CaptYoda
09-12-2018, 12:05 PM
Yes I did. Jan 2019 or onwards class for now:)

OB Pilot
09-12-2018, 12:09 PM
Yes I did. Jan 2019 class for now:)

Awesome, big congrats, welcome aboard!! Maybe you'll get moved to an earlier class.

CaptYoda
09-12-2018, 04:11 PM
Awesome, big congrats, welcome aboard!! Maybe you'll get moved to an earlier class.

One can hope!

btodd77
09-12-2018, 05:38 PM
One can hope!

Congrats man. Same boat here.
BT



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