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Theorganist92
09-09-2018, 03:29 PM
has anyone here (mainly those who have graduated college with a non-aviation degree) decided to go down the accelerated ďzero to heroĒ Part 141 training route after realizing their career choice wasnít for them? How did you finance the training? Did you use loans? Iím at odds with myself with my situation: just graduated with a masters in Sacred music, job outlook is terrible, youíre making a menial salary at best (lucky to make more than $25k unless you have a DM and teach at the university level, neither of which I will ever look forward to), and no room to grow. Working for churches is the first issue, most of them wonít lift a finger to pay a living wage because youíre viewed as a servant more than a team member, You get a job, then you serve there a little while, then you move elsewhere doing the same thing, same salary, dealing with different people.

/End rant. My apologies.

My point is, Iím looking to go the accelerated training route. Iím 26, and have about 15 hours dual from my Part 61 PPL training so far (which I started in September of 2016Ö). Im tired of it. Not going anywhere, and every time I think Iím about to solo, I lose funding. Republic just opened their LIFT Academy here in Indy where their HQ is, and I am beyond tempted to place all my risks and fears aside and drop down on a $65k loan to cover the necessary training, then pick up the 5-year contract with RPA flying the 170/175. This actually works out awesome because both the fiancťe, myself, and both our families all live in Indy, RPAís main domicile.

My biggest concerns:

CFI and FO position is guaranteed in one year and three years respectively, but will this actually hold out? The job market might change, the whole situation is very volatile.

I get married in March of 2019. Concerned about how training with LIFT will even work with one person, much less two. The whole kids/family thing topic has already been covered. It is definitely in the future, just not this coming year. The training schedule is considered full time, leaving no possibility for work, and we both want to save her money. Would love to save my money, too, lol. I am covering the rest of the bills.

my hope is that once I pick up that FO job, make 40k, and within the three years Iím there, get the CA upgrade they talk about, and pay the huge loan off with my $85k salary they refer to. How much of their statements is actually true? I have zilch to my name, im a paycheck to paycheck guy (because I make next to nothing), and I have a life to pay for. This is additional expense, in addition to $12.5k that I owe for undergrad studies in a degree I wasnít cut out for. Lovely. I am absolutely depending on their claims to get me out of this alive.

My other conceivable option is the USAF reserve. Anyone had experience with this? What can you tell me about it? Salary, training requirements/schedule, flight opportunities, etc?

Anyone out there whoís going to ATP, FlightSafety, or one of the airline cadet programs? How are you doing it? Are these guys holdin true to their word or are they just scheisters taking kidsí money? Please discuss. Thanks!


TiredSoul
09-09-2018, 03:43 PM
Your first problem is your Masterís.
Thatís just been a waste of time and funds.
Let me go about this the Dave Ramsey way: get two jobs drive Uber in addition and save save save save.
DO NOT MAKE ANY financial decisions based on a future paycheck
Donít event think about taking one other lesson till you have at least $35-$40k saved. Then you can get a loan for the remainder. Keep working your most flexible job and pick up your flight training. If you get married think a $1900 wedding and not a $19,000 wedding. Your future spouse needs to be 100% behind you in this decision.
And get 3 jobs too.
At one point my wife had 4 part time jobs when I was working as a CFI and those werenít even the bad years.
Donít look at the market right now as well....youíre not eligible for hire right now.
The musical chairs is gonna stop one day and you donít want to be unemployed with a $70k loan making your life miserable.
Work your ass off for the next 18-24 months and see if the market is still good enough to take the plunge.
Good luck to you in any case.
https://www.daveramsey.com/

sourdough44
09-09-2018, 04:49 PM
Sorry obout your current career track, Iíd consider elsewhere too.

No guarantees with anything, you are young enough to change your trajectory. You know you better than we do. I met a lady a year ago, her Son was a recent pre-med graduate. After he graduated he went off to AZ for a Ďzero to heroí pilot program, decided medical wasnít for him.

If youíre so inclined, Iím generally in favor of one entering the Reserves/Guard of some flavor. Of course keep in mind commitment and deployment potentials with signing up. I started myself at 17 in the Guard.

I hate to see someone rack up debt, but Iíd be getting the ball rolling.


Theorganist92
09-18-2018, 08:11 AM
Update: I just returned home from my 8 am interview/COMPASS test with Lift. Staff team is super kind and accommodating. The facilities are beautiful. Coffee station at the front desk lounge. Looks like a very nice place to do class at. The test is tough - half is basic hand eye coordination, the other is a written math portion. No calculators are allowed. There was even a bit of electrical physics so I think thereís a fair bit here that everyone will struggle with somewhat here. Overall I think I did alright. Up next is to learn my score and the next steps for enrollment, if I take that path.

My next concern is still the financesÖ Iím considering even going further down the loan path and taking on an additional 30k to the training loan, just to pay off living expenses. Thereís not really another way to do it. I have read over and considered the previous posts. I donít want to do this, but at the same time, I have often asked myself, ďif you continue to go out of pocket, life will happen to you, training will be put on hold, and possibly may never get done. Do you really want to do this? If yes, then you have the right to it, and you should do it. Loans, though not preferable, are available for this reason.Ē I understand the risks involved with loans, and I think that as long as I understand what Iím up against, and I plan carefully, I think I will be fine.

A friend of mine who is flying already, not in RPA but for a Part 135 cargo charter, just mentioned over the phone that Iíll be making 100k within five years. He said, ďyou might regret taking on the loan till youíre thirty, but after that, youíll be happy you did.Ē I have my doubts in his statements. Maybe some current RPA guys might be able to reach out here on the current status/projected financial outlook of things?

Did some more research on Reserves training, which Iím trying to steer clear of. I think that it would be less emotional stress on the relationship if I take on the loan. USAF buddy of mine went over what I would be faced with. He mentioned that I would absolutely be deployed, I would be in the Middle East, I would be in combat zones, and I wouldnít be able to come home if, say, a child was born.

Itís just too much for me, and I think the emotional stress on my wife-to-be would be at much more of a cost than a financial stress alone.


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TiredSoul
09-18-2018, 08:49 AM
Thatís a $100,000 loan buddy.
Thatís 8 years alone on paying the principle at $1000 month.
I know itís tempting but youíre going down the wrong rabbit hole here.
Join the military, do your 4 years then use the VA bill for your flight training.
Youíll be 32 and debt free when you hit the street.
Or youíll be flying for a Regional with a $80k debt remaining you canít pay off.
Canít buy a decent car or a house either.

jdebrey
09-18-2018, 09:00 AM
Thatís a $100,000 loan buddy.

Thatís 8 years alone on paying the principle at $1000 month.

I know itís tempting but youíre going down the wrong rabbit hole here.

Join the military, do your 4 years then use the VA bill for your flight training.

Youíll be 32 and debt free when you hit the street.

Or youíll be flying for a Regional with a $80k debt remaining you canít pay off.

Canít buy a decent car or a house either.



My flight instructor did this. Smart decision.


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misterpretzel
09-18-2018, 09:31 AM
I wonder what the loan terms are for these kinds of programs. A 10 year loan with 8% interest has you paying almost 150k for a 100k loan

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TiredSoul
09-18-2018, 09:51 AM
I wonder what the loan terms are for these kinds of programs. A 10 year loan with 8% interest has you paying almost 150k for a 100k loan


Maybe he needs a pictoral

https://i1.wp.com/www.madelinemcqueen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Amazing-Hamster-Wheel.gif

Financial stress is like the #1 cause for divorce buddy.

kingsnake2
09-18-2018, 10:54 AM
I wonder what the loan terms are for these kinds of programs. A 10 year loan with 8% interest has you paying almost 150k for a 100k loan

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From what I've seen, ATP's loan rates are 9-14%.

misterpretzel
09-18-2018, 10:19 PM
From what I've seen, ATP's loan rates are 9-14%.Ouch....

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dbdevkc
09-19-2018, 03:33 AM
have about 15 hours dual from my Part 61 PPL training so far (which I started in September of 2016Ö)

You've already gone through with years of study in a program that after the fact have decided is not for you. After only 15 hours of dual (and how many actual flights is that, really), how do you even know that piloting is for you? You expressed frustration with "not getting anywhere" and not soloing. It almost sounds like you have no driving passion for aviation, just a desire to be able to use it as a viable career option. I'm not saying that an obsession for flying is required, but the love for it can help you get through the tough times. There will be tough times. Lots of hard study, pressure filled checkrides, significant quality of life issues when first hired.

5-year contract with RPA

That makes it sound like it is a good thing. My impression is that it is not a good thing. If for any reason you need or decide to leave before the end of the 5 years, you owe them another $20k.

CFI and FO position is guaranteed

It is only guaranteed if you successfully make it through the program. What happens if you don't make it through? What happens if you loose your first-class medical? Do you even have that yet.

The training schedule is considered full time, leaving no possibility for work

we both want to save her money. Would love to save my money, too, lol. I am covering the rest of the bills.

Oh boy. It sounds like trouble brewing on the horizon. "We both..." I don't see this ending well.

within the three years Iím there, get the CA upgrade they talk about, and pay the huge loan off with my $85k salary they refer to

So that is 9 months to a year training, 1-2 years as a CFI building hours, then how many years for a CA upgrade? As you know, the industry changes so fast there is no way to know when you'll be a captain logging PIC 121 time.


and I have a life to pay for. This is additional expense, in addition to $12.5k that I owe for undergrad studies in a degree I wasnít cut out for.

How do you know this is something you are cut out for? I can't help but think you are getting yourself in way over your head.

Others have suggested and I agree, get yourself a flexible job to pay for flying lessons. Work yourself through it one rating at a time. One you get your private cert, and have had a serious look at what it will take to get instrument rated, then reevaluate your situation.

PRS Guitars
09-19-2018, 09:06 AM
Did some more research on Reserves training, which Iím trying to steer clear of. I think that it would be less emotional stress on the relationship if I take on the loan. USAF buddy of mine went over what I would be faced with. He mentioned that I would absolutely be deployed, I would be in the Middle East, I would be in combat zones, and I wouldnít be able to come home if, say, a child was born.

Itís just too much for me, and I think the emotional stress on my wife-to-be would be at much more of a cost than a financial stress alone.



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Really? Iíd way way rather deal with all of that than a $100k loan. That $100k loan is going to be very stressful if your plan doesnít work out...(and even if it does) fail multiple checkrides, DUI, economic downturn, age 67 retirement stagnation, or you donít like the job.

On that last point, you have a history of jumping onto a path and not following it through. Seems like you are looking for a magic solution. This is a disaster waiting to happen. New wife, no job, massive debt, whatever you do, please put off having kids until you clean up this mess.

JohnBurke
09-19-2018, 09:24 AM
Doesn't anybody rob banks any more?

Lazy.

Theorganist92
09-19-2018, 07:06 PM
Ok. So the solution would definitely be military. Change course for a minute, what does reserve flying entail? I heard today that it is not all the commitment I heard it was before. You have the ability to ask time off for important things. So of course, this is something Iím much more inclined towards, especially after reading these posts.


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galaxy flyer
09-19-2018, 07:59 PM
Ok. So the solution would definitely be military. Change course for a minute, what does reserve flying entail? I heard today that it is not all the commitment I heard it was before. You have the ability to ask time off for important things. So of course, this is something Iím much more inclined towards, especially after reading these posts.


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IF, big IF, you want to serve, itís definitely the way to go and youíll get the best introduction into the career. If you donít want to serve and just expect a free ride to an airline job, DO NOT DO IT and you will be miserable. Not everybody deploys, but lots get to visit various remote locations. Think C-17 or C-5.

GF

Jrose22
09-20-2018, 06:10 AM
Okay, so look, you will need to go to a part 141 school and finance the tuition. Someone has banned my last thread because they don't want anybody on this forum to see that I found a program in Arizona for flight enthusiast who want their commercial with all ratings, but don't want to pay $85,000! Go to African Prince dot com and enroll in a 141 program with $750 down and $193 a month interest free with NO qualifying! You will not find a better program, cost, or terms anywhere in the country! I DO NOT own this organization. I promote them because they are a nonprofit that assist young want to be pilots. Whoever is banning my post do not want all of us that is in your position to see this post because of either competition or something political. I don't care about any of that stuff! I only care about people like us not having to get raked over the coals with outfits like Emery Riddle and the like. If you have $750, and can afford to pay $193 a month, you found a diamond in the rough my friend! Check them out. Honestly, before they tear this post down.

Theorganist92
09-20-2018, 06:16 AM
Lol, sent straight from a member of 4 hours ago to date (and time). Didnít I read a very similar post on another thread mentioning a different website even?

I may be desperate but not that desperate! Not at all!


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TiredSoul
09-20-2018, 06:26 AM
Thatís a scam artist.

Theorganist92
09-20-2018, 06:27 AM
Well aware. I figured it called for some sarcasm.


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Jrose22
09-20-2018, 07:00 AM
Your paying $65k. Why? Go to Chinese Hacker dot com, a nonprofit vetting agency for part 141 only flight schools. You can finish there, and don't keep taking out loans! The Dave Ramsey previous poster is right! Debt will kill relationships and families! $750 down, NO interest and NO qualifying! Ramsey would approve of this type of financing....

Jrose22
09-20-2018, 07:07 AM
LOL, wow! I hope you can all hear yourself. How close minded can one be not to even research the fact that this opportunity exist. No wonder your stuck where your at with these questions. Good luck to you. Enjoy your new $85,000 loan with crazy interest. You to wanted to help at one time and were a member of 4 hours, were you not? Hypocritical and judgmental. Oh ya, my sign off, scammer alert. LOL!!

kingsnake2
09-20-2018, 07:31 AM
LOL, wow! I hope you can all hear yourself. How close minded can one be not to even research the fact that this opportunity exist. No wonder your stuck where your at with these questions. Good luck to you. Enjoy your new $85,000 loan with crazy interest. You to wanted to help at one time and were a member of 4 hours, were you not? Hypocritical and judgmental. Oh ya, my sign off, scammer alert. LOL!!

Based out of a virtual office in Tucson with no discernible assets or specifically identified employees....

dbdevkc
09-20-2018, 08:04 AM
"LOL, wow! I hope you can all hear yourself. How close minded can one be not to even research the fact that this opportunity exist. No wonder your stuck where your at with these questions. Good luck to you. Enjoy your new $85,000 loan with crazy interest. You to wanted to help at one time and were a member of 4 hours, were you not? Hypocritical and judgmental. Oh ya, my sign off, scammer alert. LOL!!"

From that scam site that he's pushing:

"The typical Cost of Flight Training in 2018 cost anywhere between $60,000 to $120,000 to train as a commercial pilot. Our program offers and finances the exact same FAA certified programs for $9995 with $750 down and $193 a month interest free!"

It is very funny. Grammatical errors throughout the site. No specifics. $9995 for what exactly? Just laughable. If you are going to try to scam, at least make an attempt at believability.

Oh wait, unless you feel so bad that you submitted your SS# you want to see other people fall for it too. Repeat after me: Identity. Stolen.

PRS Guitars
09-20-2018, 08:39 AM
It is very funny. Grammatical errors throughout the site. No specifics. $9995 for what exactly? Just laughable. If you are going to try to scam, at least make an attempt at believability.

.

The sad thing is, this scumbagís site will work. Some people will fall for it. Itís right up there with Craigslist scammers and Amazon website scammers, etc.

JohnBurke
09-20-2018, 09:33 AM
Someone has banned my last thread because they don't want anybody on this forum to see that I found a program in Arizona for flight enthusiast who want their commercial with all ratings, but don't want to pay $85,000!

You didn't find jack, and if indeed your posts were removed, it's because you violated the terms of service, bright spark.

I visited the web site, which asks, among other things, for a social security number.

I can predict with certainty that you won't last much longer here, but also with some reliability that you'll have some legal troubles starting soon...or you'll close your little scale web site down and run with whatever money you get.

The damn website is written by someone who knows nothing about aviation and it reads like someone grabbed few details of the internet without understanding what they mean, and rubbed them together in a half-hearted effort to sound credible.

You'll get two months of ground school and fifteen hundred hours? Seven hundred fifty down and one ninety three a month, it says? Yet later in the same page it states that the cost is 95 down, and 25 a month. Did anybody read this crap before they threw it together, or do you really think people are that stupid?

I tell you what. I forwarded the link to the Phoenix FBI office and to the Federal Trade Commission. Other contacts to follow.

Imagine. A one hundred twenty thousand dollar training program reduced to just 1499. You've revolutionized the industry, and with any luck, will have a lot of time to gloat about that from behind a very small window, in a very small cell.

Theorganist92
09-21-2018, 09:27 PM
You didn't find jack, and if indeed your posts were removed, it's because you violated the terms of service, bright spark.



I visited the web site, which asks, among other things, for a social security number.



I can predict with certainty that you won't last much longer here, but also with some reliability that you'll have some legal troubles starting soon...or you'll close your little scale web site down and run with whatever money you get.



The damn website is written by someone who knows nothing about aviation and it reads like someone grabbed few details of the internet without understanding what they mean, and rubbed them together in a half-hearted effort to sound credible.



You'll get two months of ground school and fifteen hundred hours? Seven hundred fifty down and one ninety three a month, it says? Yet later in the same page it states that the cost is 95 down, and 25 a month. Did anybody read this crap before they threw it together, or do you really think people are that stupid?



I tell you what. I forwarded the link to the Phoenix FBI office and to the Federal Trade Commission. Other contacts to follow.



Imagine. A one hundred twenty thousand dollar training program reduced to just 1499. You've revolutionized the industry, and with any luck, will have a lot of time to gloat about that from behind a very small window, in a very small cell.


JohnBurke, you are the man. Thank you for all the entertainment [emoji4] and thank you for telling him how it is. Thatís whatís most fun about these guys is their idiocy.


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ICUROOK
09-24-2018, 06:34 AM
There will always be a need for CFIs. GA is here to stay babs

TiredSoul
09-24-2018, 09:53 AM
Work your way throughout your ratings.
Its the longer way but the better way.
Dont be misguided by the flashes and bright lights.
Chrome donít get you home.

badflaps
09-24-2018, 10:37 AM
The sad thing is, this scumbagís site will work. Some people will fall for it. Itís right up there with Craigslist scammers and Amazon website scammers, etc.

Not me! I'm still going to Emery Ribble....

JohnBurke
09-24-2018, 02:50 PM
The sad thing is, this scumbagís site will work. Some people will fall for it. Itís right up there with Craigslist scammers and Amazon website scammers, etc.

Today I was in Scottsdale for some business. I took some time and visited one of two locations for the grandparents of America website, that includes the banned poster's aviation funding service.

As I suspected, the place was abandoned. A FOR RENT sign was in the window. Lights out. No cars in front of the building. I tried the door. Nobody there. I looked in the windows. No evidence of any business being run inside.

In fairness, their web site only includes a grainy picture of the Scottsdale location, and a note that states it's a "processing center." It states that appointments are not available for that location, and little wonder. There is a small sticker on the window which identifies the location as belonging to "Hempleaf," and there are two parking spaces out front with a stencil spray-painted "HEMPLEAF" in black letters. The sticker on the door has a small image of a marajuana leaf.

Whether they want to call themselves a pilot funding site or just fall back on "grandparents of America," I have zero doubt that this is a scam as it bears all the hallmarks, and I'm posting this to make it clear to anyone who entertains the slightest thought of doing business with them: I've been to their place of business, and they don't exist. Legitimate operators do not do this, especially those considering financing careers to the tune of a hundred thousand dollars a pop. Far from a facility that features a live person to process requests, it's dark, lights out, with a for-rent sign in the window.

"Jrose22" is absolutely, 100%, full of ****.

TiredSoul
09-25-2018, 05:59 PM
Thanks JB.....

Theorganist92
11-20-2018, 07:18 PM
Revisiting this post with an update: after some thought, and not really all that much (it shouldíve been obvious), Iíve decided to take on a huge loan to attend Republicís LIFT Academy. Had a talk with one of the maintenance guys for Allegiant at my ramp gig the other day and he suggested that getting a 5-year contractual position with the airline following a three year training program was a great deal, no matter what the cost might be. He mentioned the fact that I would be getting hours that way too, another thing I failed to think about. I looked up some salaries for RPA and for mainline (for further down the road), and if my math is correct, that debt will be paid off no problem once I make the jump in for mainline. And, again, if my math is correct, Iíll be donating to charity at 35 because I wonít know what to do with a $180/flight hour wage at 75 hours per bid periodÖ

Although that first two to three years at Republic as a FO might be a bit rocky for me and my soon to be wife, I think itíll still be eons better than where we are now, and besides, like I implied before, I donít think Iíll have too much to be concerned about in a few yearsÖ

On another note: According to Zillow, with the amount of bank Iíll be making as an AAL 737 CA (if that is indeed where I end up in a decade or so), my wife and I will be able to afford a $750k-$900k home. Rather exciting, I might say. Haha :)


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tnalkire
11-20-2018, 08:49 PM
Thatís a $100,000 loan buddy.
Thatís 8 years alone on paying the principle at $1000 month.
I know itís tempting but youíre going down the wrong rabbit hole here.
Join the military, do your 4 years then use the VA bill for your flight training.
Youíll be 32 and debt free when you hit the street.
Or youíll be flying for a Regional with a $80k debt remaining you canít pay off.
Canít buy a decent car or a house either.

Can't argue this. The less debt you have the better off you will be. I was 33 when I started flight training. Used my GI Bill... Came out of pocket 5k for training 0 to MEI... My only decision now is if I stick out the last 3 years to get my 20 or just to the regionals.

misterpretzel
11-20-2018, 10:06 PM
Revisiting this post with an update: after some thought, and not really all that much (it shouldíve been obvious), Iíve decided to take on a huge loan to attend Republicís LIFT Academy. Had a talk with one of the maintenance guys for Allegiant at my ramp gig the other day and he suggested that getting a 5-year contractual position with the airline following a three year training program was a great deal, no matter what the cost might be. He mentioned the fact that I would be getting hours that way too, another thing I failed to think about. I looked up some salaries for RPA and for mainline (for further down the road), and if my math is correct, that debt will be paid off no problem once I make the jump in for mainline. And, again, if my math is correct, Iíll be donating to charity at 35 because I wonít know what to do with a $180/flight hour wage at 75 hours per bid periodÖ

Although that first two to three years at Republic as a FO might be a bit rocky for me and my soon to be wife, I think itíll still be eons better than where we are now, and besides, like I implied before, I donít think Iíll have too much to be concerned about in a few yearsÖ

On another note: According to Zillow, with the amount of bank Iíll be making as an AAL 737 CA (if that is indeed where I end up in a decade or so), my wife and I will be able to afford a $750k-$900k home. Rather exciting, I might say. Haha :)


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkIf only it were that easy to get into a major...

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deftone
11-20-2018, 10:30 PM
Revisiting this post with an update: after some thought, and not really all that much (it should’ve been obvious), I’ve decided to take on a huge loan to attend Republic’s LIFT Academy. Had a talk with one of the maintenance guys for Allegiant at my ramp gig the other day and he suggested that getting a 5-year contractual position with the airline following a three year training program was a great deal, no matter what the cost might be. He mentioned the fact that I would be getting hours that way too, another thing I failed to think about. I looked up some salaries for RPA and for mainline (for further down the road), and if my math is correct, that debt will be paid off no problem once I make the jump in for mainline. And, again, if my math is correct, I’ll be donating to charity at 35 because I won’t know what to do with a $180/flight hour wage at 75 hours per bid period…

Although that first two to three years at Republic as a FO might be a bit rocky for me and my soon to be wife, I think it’ll still be eons better than where we are now, and besides, like I implied before, I don’t think I’ll have too much to be concerned about in a few years…

On another note: According to Zillow, with the amount of bank I’ll be making as an AAL 737 CA (if that is indeed where I end up in a decade or so), my wife and I will be able to afford a $750k-$900k home. Rather exciting, I might say. Haha :)


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I genuinely can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not?? Please tell me you put more thought into it than this. An Allegiant mechanic and back of a napkin financial planning?

I was also accepted info LIFT however I turned it down once all of the details of the agreement came out. There is a good sized thread on the Republic section on here with all of the details.

viper548
11-21-2018, 06:54 AM
Pay the loan off as quickly as you can. Never make just the minimum payment. Any bonuses you get, pay raises, captains pay, etc. use to pay extra on the loan.



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