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View Full Version : Why Inc pays XJ but not us....


93Sierra
09-11-2018, 11:18 PM
How will the Expressjet TA vote influence the company to negotiate? I only skimmed through the Alpa page that outlined their TA. On top of all the increases, the big thing is the 40k sign on bonus and the 10k retention bonus.


JuniorFO
09-12-2018, 03:37 AM
How will the Expressjet TA vote influence the company to negotiate? I only skimmed through the Alpa page that outlined their TA. On top of all the increases, the big thing is the 40k sign on bonus and the 10k retention bonus.

They pay XJT because they are ALPA. I recommend them. Aslo Inc. isn't in control anymore.

Now you will see growth at XJT, already starting to see it, and they will become shortly wayyyyy more attractive than OO.

TheFly
09-12-2018, 04:24 AM
They pay XJT because they are ALPA. I recommend them. Aslo Inc. isn't in control anymore.

Now you will see growth at XJT, already starting to see it, and they will become shortly wayyyyy more attractive than OO.

ALPO propaganda...this is completely BS.


amcnd
09-12-2018, 04:38 AM
Nothing will change. They treat them just like they do any other airline. And 20 shiny Jets will hardly make them attractive. Unless you have 20+ years you wont ever see yourself flying in the left seat of it.. had they got Endeavor/Republic rates. It would have helped us... but basically there TAputs them around our pay..

BrewCity
09-12-2018, 06:23 AM
How will the Expressjet TA vote influence the company to negotiate? I only skimmed through the Alpa page that outlined their TA. On top of all the increases, the big thing is the 40k sign on bonus and the 10k retention bonus.

By voting no on your last pay package your pilot group has ended its willingness to take paltry raises and work for whatever management tells you to take. They are now trying to see if Expressjet pilots will take a paltry raise instead.

Welcome to the other side of the whipsaw!

gojo
09-12-2018, 06:27 AM
Nothing will change. They treat them just like they do any other airline. And 20 shiny Jets will hardly make them attractive. Unless you have 20+ years you wont ever see yourself flying in the left seat of it.. had they got Endeavor/Republic rates. It would have helped us... but basically there TAputs them around our pay..

Do you ever reread what you post?

FollowCompanyRJ
09-12-2018, 11:44 AM
ALPO propaganda...this is completely BS.

How? Look at their contract and then look at your er... agreement? It's pretty cut and dry. You guys are getting cucked.

Nevjets
09-12-2018, 12:12 PM
The red line is the XJT TA (including the EQO). The top line is Endeavor. The dashed blue line is the industry average.

I apologize for the bad resolution.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180912/5ac9b7d00de9746e1b3bc4a34f0f9de2.pnghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180912/f6e9b6adb27016b3942a7bab8d37e059.pnghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180912/d60150e81b840f1a8546a417cab6caac.png
The XJT TA FO 70+ seat rate is the same as the 50 seat rate.

*The EQO adds $8.33/hr to captain rates and $10.42/hr to FO rates.

CA: $2000 quarterly divided by 240 hours
FO: $2500 quarterly divided by 240 hours

Nevjets
09-12-2018, 12:14 PM
Nothing will change. They treat them just like they do any other airline. And 20 shiny Jets will hardly make them attractive. Unless you have 20+ years you wont ever see yourself flying in the left seat of it.. had they got Endeavor/Republic rates. It would have helped us... but basically there TAputs them around our pay..


Assuming you are correct, the work rules are still better at xjt.

word302
09-12-2018, 05:48 PM
The red line is the XJT TA (including the EQO). The top line is Endeavor. The dashed blue line is the industry average.

I apologize for the bad resolution.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180912/5ac9b7d00de9746e1b3bc4a34f0f9de2.pnghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180912/f6e9b6adb27016b3942a7bab8d37e059.pnghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180912/d60150e81b840f1a8546a417cab6caac.png
The XJT TA FO 70+ seat rate is the same as the 50 seat rate.

*The EQO adds $8.33/hr to captain rates and $10.42/hr to FO rates.

CA: $2000 quarterly divided by 240 hours
FO: $2500 quarterly divided by 240 hours

It adds those amounts if you fly 80 hours/month. What happens when you work more?

word302
09-12-2018, 05:50 PM
Assuming you are correct, the work rules are still better at xjt.

What are your daily, duty, and trip rigs?

Nevjets
09-12-2018, 10:33 PM
It adds those amounts if you fly 80 hours/month. What happens when you work more?


If you work more, you still get the $10k/$8k. Each pilot only has to average 70 hours of credit to get the EQO even though minimum guarantee is 75 hours. In other words, as long as you fly (or call in sick or have vacation) what you were awarded, you get the EQO. But they used 80 hours because thatís around the average of what the lines are built to. Itís just a way to try to make the charts compare apples to apples when it comes to total compensation.

If you donít like that way of comparing the different regionalís total compensation, one can also just multiply the pay rate with the minimum guarantee and then multiply that by 12 months in order to get total compensation. And with xjt, you would just add the last step of adding the EQO to get its total compensation. Then compare them that way. But then people would say, no one just flies minimum guarantee every single month. Itís just a way to compare apples to apples!

What are your daily, duty, and trip rigs?


There are none. But there isnít historical average either. Not to mention all other work rules, scope, insurance, and retirement.

word302
09-13-2018, 05:50 AM
If you work more, you still get the $10k/$8k. Each pilot only has to average 70 hours of credit to get the EQO even though minimum guarantee is 75 hours. In other words, as long as you fly (or call in sick or have vacation) what you were awarded, you get the EQO. But they used 80 hours because thatís around the average of what the lines are built to. Itís just a way to try to make the charts compare apples to apples when it comes to total compensation.

If you donít like that way of comparing the different regionalís total compensation, one can also just multiply the pay rate with the minimum guarantee and then multiply that by 12 months in order to get total compensation. And with xjt, you would just add the last step of adding the EQO to get its total compensation. Then compare them that way. But then people would say, no one just flies minimum guarantee every single month. Itís just a way to compare apples to apples!




There are none. But there isnít historical average either. Not to mention all other work rules, scope, insurance, and retirement.

The point is if you guys had rigs, you would be getting substantially more soft time, which would dilute those hourly calculations for the EQO even more.

Nevjets
09-13-2018, 08:01 AM
The point is if you guys had rigs, you would be getting substantially more soft time, which would dilute those hourly calculations for the EQO even more.


Thatís just not true. Even if xjt had all your rigs (which are actually in the smartpref PBS anyway), the $10k/$8k would still be paid out to everyone who credits at least 70 hours a month.

word302
09-13-2018, 09:06 AM
Thatís just not true. Even if xjt had all your rigs (which are actually in the smartpref PBS anyway), the $10k/$8k would still be paid out to everyone who credits at least 70 hours a month.

Do you math? You guys would credit much more per month than you do now, thus watering down your hourly conversion of the bonus. Hence why I said that trying to show an hourly conversion for a bonus is disingenuous at best.

Nevjets
09-13-2018, 09:20 AM
Do you math? You guys would credit much more per month than you do now, thus watering down your hourly conversion of the bonus. Hence why I said that trying to show an hourly conversion for a bonus is disingenuous at best.


Any number of work rules changes would cause an increase in credit? Whatís really your point? The fact is that xjt doesnít have rigs or historical block and this TA doesnít add them. So when calculating total compensation in reference to the EQO, those things that havenít existed in past contracts nor this TA are irrelevant.

Look, use whatever valid method you would like to see in trying to compare compensation from different regionals. Just make sure you add the $10k/$8k for xjt. The only point of the chart with the EQO conversion is to try to show an apples to apples comparison. If you cannot see that, then I donít know what to tell you.

Lastly, this TA is better than the TA Skywest rejected, and more so when taking all work rules into consideration.

Donít fall for this trap. The only reason why the EQO exist is to trick, specifically you Skywest guys, into thinking this TA isnít as good as what you have now.

One last thing, itís not a bonus. Each pilot has to average a credit of 70 hours a month. The minimum guarantee is 75 hours. Sick and vacation hours count towards the 70 hours credit. This is guaranteed as itís going to get without it being in the pay rates. Itís simply for optics.

word302
09-13-2018, 09:48 AM
Any number of work rules changes would cause an increase in credit? Whatís really your point? The fact is that xjt doesnít have rigs or historical block and this TA doesnít add them. So when calculating total compensation in reference to the EQO, those things that havenít existed in past contracts nor this TA are irrelevant.

Look, use whatever valid method you would like to see in trying to compare compensation from different regionals. Just make sure you add the $10k/$8k for xjt. The only point of the chart with the EQO conversion is to try to show an apples to apples comparison. If you cannot see that, then I donít know what to tell you.

Lastly, this TA is better than the TA Skywest rejected, and more so when taking all work rules into consideration.

Donít fall for this trap. The only reason why the EQO exist is to trick, specifically you Skywest guys, into thinking this TA isnít as good as what you have now.

One last thing, itís not a bonus. Each pilot has to average a credit of 70 hours a month. The minimum guarantee is 75 hours. Sick and vacation hours count towards the 70 hours credit. This is guaranteed as itís going to get without it being in the pay rates. Itís simply for optics.

So, why not make it hard pay rates then? There is a reason they are giving you this and not hard rates and it ain't just for "optics".

Nevjets
09-13-2018, 10:23 AM
So, why not make it hard pay rates then? There is a reason they are giving you this and not hard rates and it ain't just for "optics".


So that people like you, Skywest pilots, think itís not as good as what you already have or may have in the new pay proposal.

The term optics is the exact words that the NC used to characterize the reason why management came up with the EQO. Think about it, itís pretty much guaranteed that everyone gets this $10k/$8k, just as if it were in actual pay rates. Itís sole purpose is to make the pay rate (compensation) artificially low for the untrained eye.

JustSomePlt
09-13-2018, 10:46 AM
Nevets, I mean err Nevjets, why do you even care? Itís not like you still work at EV. Be a good little boy and go study your fedex manual.

word302
09-13-2018, 11:02 AM
So that people like you, Skywest pilots, think itís not as good as what you already have or may have in the new pay proposal.

The term optics is the exact words that the NC used to characterize the reason why management came up with the EQO. Think about it, itís pretty much guaranteed that everyone gets this $10k/$8k, just as if it were in actual pay rates. Itís sole purpose is to make the pay rate (compensation) artificially low for the untrained eye.
Except most of us can do math, which is why our last proposal was voted down with vigor. You're pointing the finger at the wrong guy man. I've never voted yes to anything OO has offered. I just really think you guys could do much better in this climate.

gojo
09-13-2018, 11:06 AM
Nevets, I mean err Nevjets, why do you even care? Itís not like you still work at EV. Be a good little boy and go study your fedex manual.

That way you can crawl back under your rock and pretend Skywest is perfect. And live in a world where nobody else deserves an opinion or can offer a different viewpoint. Classic

JustSomePlt
09-13-2018, 01:07 PM
Except most of us can do math, which is why our last proposal was voted down with vigor. You're pointing the finger at the wrong guy man. I've never voted yes to anything OO has offered. I just really think you guys could do much better in this climate.

He doesnít work at EV anymore, he has no skin in the game.

JustSomePlt
09-13-2018, 01:10 PM
That way you can crawl back under your rock and pretend Skywest is perfect. And live in a world where nobody else deserves an opinion or can offer a different viewpoint. Classic

Never said skywest was perfect, nor did I ever say that I fly for them. There might just be a reason why I know who Nevjets is.

Nevjets
09-13-2018, 01:44 PM
Nevets, I mean err Nevjets, why do you even care? Itís not like you still work at EV. Be a good little boy and go study your fedex manual.


Iím not suggesting how anybody should vote (there are pros and cons to the xjt TA). Iím just trying to dispel any misconceptions. I care because I still care about this segment of the industry. Just because Iím not in it, doesnít mean I will forget where I came from. Iíd like to see Skywest pilots join the community and share some of their talent in order to make things better.

He doesnít work at EV anymore, he has no skin in the game.


Which allows me to have a greater impartiality.

Nevjets
09-13-2018, 01:49 PM
Except most of us can do math, which is why our last proposal was voted down with vigor. You're pointing the finger at the wrong guy man. I've never voted yes to anything OO has offered. I just really think you guys could do much better in this climate.


What math, exactly, do you insinuate is incorrect? What math would you prefer? We know the pay rates and we know the amount of the EQO. How would you fairly compare total compensation with other regionals in order for the xjt pilots to be able to make an informed decision?

Skyhawk121
10-01-2018, 01:35 PM
Well if the current SkyWest TA goes through, this thread will become completely irrelevant.

flywithjohn
10-01-2018, 03:35 PM
Well if the current SkyWest TA goes through, this thread will become completely irrelevant.

Hardly

Filler