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View Full Version : Can somebody explain the math?


Excargodog
09-17-2018, 07:55 AM
The CommutAir profile says that you are hiring and have classes of 25-30 every three weeks. That would be a hiring rate of eight to ten pilots a week - somewhere between 400 and 500 a year.

But the profile also says that you have a grand total of 306 pilots, which would represent only about eight months hiring.

So how do you get the numbers to work? Is there a real high failure rate in training? Or are people passing the training then bailing out to other opportunities before they even get 1000 hours of 121 SIC? (And if so, why is that?)

Because those numbers in your profile are weird. What's the REAL story?


MikeC5
09-17-2018, 08:33 AM
The REAL story is that they are flat out lying. Period.
If they are lying about that, what else do you think they are lying about??

corporategypsy
09-17-2018, 09:42 AM
Airline pilot central is updated by users so not always up to date. Classes are every 2 weeks and apparently there were 8 in the Sept 6 class and 17 are scheduled for the Sept 20th class. There is also attrition with pilots leaving.


JediCheese
09-17-2018, 09:50 AM
We're going to hire 300 this year. The seniority list shows this.

People leave. The QoL here is abysmally low. The lines are marginally commutable. Reserve can feel endless.

corporategypsy
09-17-2018, 12:33 PM
We're going to hire 300 this year. The seniority list shows this.

People leave. The QoL here is abysmally low. The lines are marginally commutable. Reserve can feel endless.


are you EWR, or IAD based? And what would you say is the biggest reason QOL is bad? I am coming there either way but just like to know ahead of time. I did get offers from a few other places but their earliest class dates are late oct/ early nov and the job i did have (not flying) laid us all off when the contract didnt get renewed. I figure whatever the deal is, I can put up with some crap for 2 or 3 years.

Freebreakfast11
09-17-2018, 02:27 PM
are you EWR, or IAD based? And what would you say is the biggest reason QOL is bad? I am coming there either way but just like to know ahead of time. I did get offers from a few other places but their earliest class dates are late oct/ early nov and the job i did have (not flying) laid us all off when the contract didnt get renewed. I figure whatever the deal is, I can put up with some crap for 2 or 3 years.

Lately, 14 days off no matter how senior you get. Doesn't matter where you are based, you will go through EWR for 3/4 of your trip, meaning delays, cancellations, and min rest overnights. EWR crews do EWR flying, and IAD crews do EWR flying. Crew scheduling will pull your flying, make you sit reserve for over 8 hours, and give you a later release time or min rest. C5 continually is short staffed, meaning lots of extensions. if the CPP works out, maybe its doable for a few years. If not, stay away.

Boeing Aviator
09-17-2018, 02:51 PM
Leaving United TK (United mainline training center) today after recurrent sims. Word here is 80 pilots a month indefinitely including Summer. If true (TK always a rumor mill so take it for what its worth) should mean more CPP pilots since we’ve (UAL) been barely hiring. Best of luck to you guys moving up and onward.

TURF17
10-17-2018, 05:13 PM
Leaving United TK (United mainline training center) today after recurrent sims. Word here is 80 pilots a month indefinitely including Summer. If true (TK always a rumor mill so take it for what its worth) should mean more CPP pilots since we’ve (UAL) been barely hiring. Best of luck to you guys moving up and onward.
What's the real scoop on guys coming into UAL outside any CPP? Tempting to leave current position flying something larger than a regional but really want to know if that is going to make a difference going to a CPP regional airline?


Thanks for the insight.

jacburn
10-18-2018, 01:59 AM
What's the real scoop on guys coming into UAL outside any CPP? Tempting to leave current position flying something larger than a regional but really want to know if that is going to make a difference going to a CPP regional airline?


Thanks for the insight.
Only 50% of UA new hires are not in a cpp. Not sure what scoop you are looking for.

TURF17
10-18-2018, 04:53 AM
We're going to hire 300 this year. The seniority list shows this.

People leave. The QoL here is abysmally low. The lines are marginally commutable. Reserve can feel endless.
What are DECs seeing for reserve flying i.e. legs per day, overnights out of base, FDP etc...
Being CQF do you get paid Captain pay, while sitting in right seat?

MikeC5
10-18-2018, 06:44 AM
What are DECs seeing for reserve flying i.e. legs per day, overnights out of base, FDP etc...
Being CQF do you get paid Captain pay, while sitting in right seat?

Seriously, how many times do you need to be told CommutAir DOES NOT HAVE DECs. You have been told this repeatedly.

HercDiver
10-18-2018, 03:49 PM
What's the real scoop on guys coming into UAL outside any CPP? Tempting to leave current position flying something larger than a regional but really want to know if that is going to make a difference going to a CPP regional airline?


Thanks for the insight.

To my knowledge, only 3 pilots in the past several years have been hired by UAL off the streets. All of them were mil pilots. We have sent 3 to AA, 2-3 to DAL, 1 to FedEx, a bunch to JetBlue, several to Sprirt and Frontier.

As for life on reserve you can expect to sit airport reserve 5-6 days in a row at 8 hours each day. You will be paid 3.75 of those hours. You will probably have an over night about half the time.

PosRateGearUp
10-18-2018, 04:29 PM
To my knowledge, only 3 pilots in the past several years have been hired by UAL off the streets. All of them were mil pilots. We have sent 3 to AA, 2-3 to DAL, 1 to FedEx, a bunch to JetBlue, several to Sprirt and Frontier.

As for life on reserve you can expect to sit airport reserve 5-6 days in a row at 8 hours each day. You will be paid 3.75 of those hours. You will probably have an over night about half the time.

Reserve pays 4.0 hours/day.

MaxQ
10-19-2018, 09:48 AM
Reserve pays 4.0 hours/day.

Four hours unless fly more. Then get greater of 4 or what blocked.
Reserve is hard work but the extra that one goes past the 4 hour min adds up in a month.

JediCheese
10-20-2018, 09:08 PM
Four hours unless fly more. Then get greater of 4 or what blocked.
Reserve is hard work but the extra that one goes past the 4 hour min adds up in a month.
You make less on reserve than if you were to hold a line and pick up. As a reservist, it was hard to pick up extra days because the days off you had were required for 117 reasons. With a line, you can pick up 4-5 days at 200-300%, drop down to 11 days off, and make a ton more than a reservist and have the same number of days off.

It's just that not many want to voluntarily drop down to 11 days off when they have a line that gives them 15 days off and pays 85 hrs (plus a little more for block or better).

MaxQ
10-21-2018, 07:43 AM
You make less on reserve than if you were to hold a line and pick up. As a reservist, it was hard to pick up extra days because the days off you had were required for 117 reasons. With a line, you can pick up 4-5 days at 200-300%, drop down to 11 days off, and make a ton more than a reservist and have the same number of days off.

It's just that not many want to voluntarily drop down to 11 days off when they have a line that gives them 15 days off and pays 85 hrs (plus a little more for block or better).

Very true Jedi.
I just wanted to point out that if your seniority only holds reserve that one will do better than the 76 or 80 hour bid line..
This is the only airline that I have worked at that pays “greater of” on a day by day basis while on reserve. All of the others only paid more when you broke monthly guarantee. My assumption is that is still the norm at most places. Obviously not as good as holding a line but it is a small nugget.