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View Full Version : AA or UA or SW


SuperEZE
09-22-2018, 07:45 AM
Live 1.5 hr drive from Chicago...

Mid 40s
Qol over $... but like options

Thanks in advance


Poser765
09-22-2018, 07:47 AM
Interviewed? Job offers from all three?

SuperEZE
09-22-2018, 07:58 AM
Seen the world
Stars have aligned
Moving back home, will be settled by Dec.

Looking for input from those with 1st hand knowledge...


Hossharris
09-22-2018, 09:09 AM
United was by far the easiest, lowest threat interview.

Sw a close second.

If youíre anywhere near Detroit Iíd recommend Delta.

FWIW.

SuperEZE
09-22-2018, 09:23 AM
United was by far the easiest, lowest threat interview.

Sw a close second.

If youíre anywhere near Detroit Iíd recommend Delta.

FWIW.Thanks
Looking for the simple life now (Chicago it will be)
Guess age is turning me into the half bald, unadventurous man I've dreaded becoming ...lol

Looking forward, 45 to 50, the next five-years, wondering what Qol is like between those three ( specifically at those three, in Chicago)

webecheck
09-22-2018, 10:04 AM
Thanks
Looking for the simple life now (Chicago it will be)
Guess age is turning me into the half bald, unadventurous man I've dreaded becoming ...lol

Looking forward, 45 to 50, the next five-years, wondering what Qol is like between those three ( specifically at those three, in Chicago)

UA because of equipment options and size of base. One could make an argument for AA, but Iíd say swa is last for sure. I am a biased UA guy, but at ORD you can have any type of flying you want and we are larger than AA by about 10% and growing more than AA. 77, 67, 57, 37, and 320 flying. Can hold any equipment within a year except the 77.

badflaps
09-22-2018, 10:08 AM
Chicago is great for geezers, lots to do, see and eat. Transpo to MDW, ORD is duck soup by CTA.

moflyer
09-22-2018, 10:13 AM
Go to the one that hires you first. Southwest is a great place to work, and MDW is the largest station.

SuperEZE
09-22-2018, 10:33 AM
Go to the one that hires you first. Southwest is a great place to work, and MDW is the largest station.I hear you, but...

I've done the "hired 1st" thing in the past. Now that I'm in my "Heineken years", I've come to appreciate quality over quantity.

The way I view it is this: the 1st 5 years will be the most important (in my particular circumstance), once I have some seniority anywhere, I will be fine and consider myself very fortunate. I want those first 5 years to be as painless and drama free as possible.

I guess my true question is, of those 3, which has best contract for jr. Seniority pilots. Where QOL is a factor.

(if I was younger, I would agree, take the first offer and wait for the QOL) you can happily put up with a lot more In your 20s than 40s...

Again thanks all for your incites.

sherpster
09-22-2018, 11:34 AM
You arent getting to Ord anytime soon with AA. I was at UAL for a very short period but it looked like a few months to get to Ord.

SuperEZE
09-22-2018, 11:56 AM
You arent getting to Ord anytime soon with AA. I was at UAL for a very short period but it looked like a few months to get to Ord.OK thanks that's good to know...
Is it over a year to get there?

Numbers floating around apc AA has most retirees coming next few years...
Would this affect the current wait time to hold ord...

RJSAviator76
09-22-2018, 12:18 PM
From SWA perspective, if QOL is your goal:

You can hold MDW right out of training.

SWA reserve = 15 days off minimum. MDW is heavily staffed and chances are you won't fly much during your days on.

SWA line holder = 17-18 days off assuming no overlap.

As a reserve, you can trade with line holders and vice versa.

Downside: 737 is all you'll fly for the rest of your career. The flipside is, your plane won't call you names every leg.

Money aspect has been hashed and rehashed, but at SWA if you live in base, you control your W-2 and as such, your retirement contributions and profit sharing.

Upgrade will likely take longer at SWA than the legacies. It's currently at 10 years, it'll likely drop to 5-6 year mark in the near future.

If you want to fly long-haul international, forget SWA.

If you care about the airline's financial health and who's probably best positioned for the next economic downturn, I'd say SWA has UAL and AA beat by a country mile.

My advice... go with the first one to call you.

Skyward
09-22-2018, 01:13 PM
I had a CJO at UAL and SWA. I did a lot of research and a ton of homework. I chose SW, and I couldn’t be happier. A FedEX interview came my way shortly after, and I simply wasn’t interested. I have so much flexibilty with my schedule. I’m still a newbie but averaged about 18 days off a month through the summer. You want to have 14 days off but make a lot of money? No problem. You want 21 days off with easy? No problem.

As a newhire, Sw will give you IOE close to where you live (MDW). They give you a hard line the next month in the base that you can hold. Then, it’s typicially about 4-5 mo on reserve, but I was able to trade almost all of my reserve for trips as a new guy. I would have had 17 days off a month or more since I’ve been here except for the times I chose to add a trip for the pay.

Everyone is on the same airplane + you can trade across all 10 (soon to be 11) bases = a lot of trading options and flexibility.

Some other pros of SW: Trips that touch vaction get dropped if you want, so 2 weeks vac in a month = the month off, they can’t call you on a day off, you get paid more everytime they call you on reserve, 98% friendly people, holiday pay, HARD LINES BEAT PBS (I’ve experienced both)

Some view the lack of widebodies and long haul flying as a negative of SW, but not me. I have no desire to be in an airplane 10+ hours at one time and across an ocean from home. Pretty sure if SW ever gets WBs, I won’t bid it.

My personal experience is that I’m very happy at SW, and I won’t leave for anywhere. There’ll be other opinions, but that is mine. Good luck!

Al Czervik
09-22-2018, 01:44 PM
AA has a ton of retirements. I’d go to UAL. FAAAAAR better pilot group.

Name User
09-22-2018, 02:01 PM
United, bid a big plane and sit short reserve from home, work a few days a month, never look back.

SWA close second mostly because of the QOL and schedule flexibility combined with their financial health.

AA last, they are downsizing Chicago significantly on the widebody side and the base overall has echoes of Boston. IMO.

allesgut
09-22-2018, 02:15 PM
Doesnít matter.
SWA you can drop down to zero if you want to. Canít do that at UA and AA.
You could go to UA and pick up shortcall all the time and never leave -and make extra in SC assignments.
AA and UA will have better seniority no doubt.

Flip a coin

ZeroTT
09-22-2018, 02:34 PM
My input - take the first offer and move six months later if something you want more comes available.

at6d
09-22-2018, 03:04 PM
Iím a third year SWA noob. I have a week of vacation this month with a total of 24 days off and a credit of 92 trips.

Next month I have a week of vacation with 22 days off so far and 89 trips.

I can hold any base, can bid weekends off, and average about 105 trips a month with about 15-18 days off.

Our company is solid. Lots of money in the bank, huge investments in new infastructure, low debt, new airplanes coming every month, etc.

Good place to be if you get the offer.

SuperEZE
09-22-2018, 06:22 PM
Thanks for the details guys, truly appreciated

It's much easier formulating a picture from these types of discussions than it is from reading through contract comparison tables.

I'm doing my due diligence with the tables, but as most of you older fellows know , the devil is in the details.

Sharing your personal observations and experiences sure fill in the blanks for those of us on the outside.

Once I make my decision on the best fit for me, I will eventually appy to all 3 but start with my 1st choice, focusing my energy proportionally.

Once again
Thanks to all

BobWiley
09-23-2018, 01:00 PM
I couldnít imagine in 20 years when you are close to retirement how much you will hate the 737. It $ucks, really. I match what the guys above at SW have in days off, and beat their pay (for guys matching my seniority) at UAL.

My two cents,

Bob

TexasFlight
09-23-2018, 02:14 PM
Im a SW guy, been here 3 years. Really like the job and the compny. No problem with the 737. If you prefer 1 leg days and long overnights at hotels, but more days on the road then you may look at UAL or AA. Living close to ORD/MDW will have a very positive impct on your qol regardless of which company you choose. Congrats and good luck!

e6bpilot
09-23-2018, 03:13 PM
I work for SWA. You really canít go wrong with any of your choices.
SWA - unparalleled flexibility and amazing QOL and/or income potential living in a mega base.
AA - holy seniority movement...financials not as good as other carriers but your job is basically furlough proof due to retirements.
UA - decent seniority movement and the ability to switch between wide and narrow body flying. The most wide body flying of any major carrier and a huge base in ORD that goes fairly junior.

I envy your decision. Best of luck.

AC560
09-23-2018, 05:17 PM
I match what the guys above at SW have in days off, and beat their pay (for guys matching my seniority) at UAL.

Did you count profit sharing in the pay comparison?

crflyer
09-23-2018, 07:27 PM
Havenít even applied? You act like this is easy. You know there are very qualified folks that havenít heard a word after years of trying. Apply to all of them. Why start with one when you may hear from none...

SuperEZE
09-23-2018, 08:47 PM
Havenít even applied? You act like this is easy. You know there are very qualified folks that havenít heard a word after years of trying. Apply to all of them. Why start with one when you may hear from none...I understand the question, the only way I can answer that is to say that my methodology fits my particular situation.
If you can think wildly out of the box, you may understand my methods.
Ask yourself what kind of man doesn't seem desperate to land a "dream job"
I do appreciate the advice though, I think it is good advice for most aspiring airline pilots.
And thanks again to all who have the taken time to answer my basic question of QOL in the first 5 years.

Thunder1
09-23-2018, 08:58 PM
From SWA perspective, if QOL is your goal:

You can hold MDW right out of training.

SWA reserve = 15 days off minimum. MDW is heavily staffed and chances are you won't fly much during your days on.

SWA line holder = 17-18 days off assuming no overlap.

As a reserve, you can trade with line holders and vice versa.

Downside: 737 is all you'll fly for the rest of your career. The flipside is, your plane won't call you names every leg.

Money aspect has been hashed and rehashed, but at SWA if you live in base, you control your W-2 and as such, your retirement contributions and profit sharing.

Upgrade will likely take longer at SWA than the legacies. It's currently at 10 years, it'll likely drop to 5-6 year mark in the near future.

If you want to fly long-haul international, forget SWA.

If you care about the airline's financial health and who's probably best positioned for the next economic downturn, I'd say SWA has UAL and AA beat by a country mile.

My advice... go with the first one to call you.

You are way off on your rosy projection of upgrade dropping to 5-6 year mark in the near future. I agree that it will come down from the current 10 yrs that it has been for the last 7 years but it will not come down to 5-6 for anyone. It will slowly come down to 8.5 over the next two years and then may come down to 7-7.5 but you're wearing a very dark shade of rose colored glasses if you think anyone on the current seniority list will upgrade in 5-6 years from date of hire.

sherpster
09-24-2018, 02:38 AM
I turned down swa after seeing my friends schedule for 4 months. He had been at swa almost 2 yrs and it was every weekend. Not one weekend off. Everyone is on the 737 he explained and you are competing with the entire seniority list and the only desirable attribute is weekdays. Company is awesome and every pax loves swa but that weekends forever deal didnt appeal to me. Maybe I screwed up but I wont know for a few years.

Right now guys in my bid group bid out for bigger airplanes which makes movement at AA pretty damn impressive. The awarded lines were horrible for me this summer as a junior guy but I was able improve every one of them and I didnt work more than 14 days a month all summer. We have ACD soon so those 19 day/90hr lines are history. We can drop to zero at AA (if the trip is green). In July, I dropped down to 20hrs which was nice.

Al Czervik
09-24-2018, 03:05 AM
You are way off on your rosy projection of upgrade dropping to 5-6 year mark in the near future. I agree that it will come down from the current 10 yrs that it has been for the last 7 years but it will not come down to 5-6 for anyone. It will slowly come down to 8.5 over the next two years and then may come down to 7-7.5 but you're wearing a very dark shade of rose colored glasses if you think anyone on the current seniority list will upgrade in 5-6 years from date of hire.

Itís almost there at AA now.

e6bpilot
09-24-2018, 03:06 AM
I turned down swa after seeing my friends schedule for 4 months. He had been at swa almost 2 yrs and it was every weekend. Not one weekend off. Everyone is on the 737 he explained and you are competing with the entire seniority list and the only desirable attribute is weekdays. Company is awesome and every pax loves swa but that weekends forever deal didnt appeal to me. Maybe I screwed up but I wont know for a few years.

Right now guys in my bid group bid out for bigger airplanes which makes movement at AA pretty damn impressive. The awarded lines were horrible for me this summer as a junior guy but I was able improve every one of them and I didnt work more than 14 days a month all summer. We have ACD soon so those 19 day/90hr lines are history. We can drop to zero at AA (if the trip is green). In July, I dropped down to 20hrs which was nice.



I am not a SWA cheerleader at all, but if your friend was flying weekends at two years, they are either not bidding weekdays on purpose or in a senior base like ATL or MCO. We also have a mechanism to trade into days we want/need or drop days (harder to drop, but I manage 2-3 days a month).
I agree that being stuck on the 737 has its drawbacks, but a single fleet also has a lot of benefits when it comes to flexibility. The pool of flying you can dip into is huge and anyone can fly any trip from any base with no restrictions. That makes for a very healthy trading and open time economy when manning is right (currently overmanned on the FO side).
That being said, if I were in your shoes, I would probably have gone to AA too. The seniority picture there over the next few years is amazing.

Skyward
09-24-2018, 03:37 AM
I turned down swa after seeing my friends schedule for 4 months. He had been at swa almost 2 yrs and it was every weekend. Not one weekend off. Everyone is on the 737 he explained and you are competing with the entire seniority list and the only desirable attribute is weekdays. Company is awesome and every pax loves swa but that weekends forever deal didnt appeal to me. Maybe I screwed up but I wont know for a few years.

Right now guys in my bid group bid out for bigger airplanes which makes movement at AA pretty damn impressive. The awarded lines were horrible for me this summer as a junior guy but I was able improve every one of them and I didnt work more than 14 days a month all summer. We have ACD soon so those 19 day/90hr lines are history. We can drop to zero at AA (if the trip is green). In July, I dropped down to 20hrs which was nice.

I have most weekends off, and I havenít been here a full year yet. I donít get them on my initial bid, but itís no problem to trade into the schedule I want

OOfff
09-24-2018, 04:11 AM
I understand the question, the only way I can answer that is to say that my methodology fits my particular situation.
If you can think wildly out of the box, you may understand my methods.
Ask yourself what kind of man doesn't seem desperate to land a "dream job"
I do appreciate the advice though, I think it is good advice for most aspiring airline pilots.
And thanks again to all who have the taken time to answer my basic question of QOL in the first 5 years.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/26BRNewWczBInMDhm/giphy.gif?cid=4bf119fc5ba8d42f34445464675dca6b

cliffnd
09-24-2018, 04:23 AM
FedEx.

From someone who worked at UAL and had offers from SWA and DAL.

Zero, zilch, no regrets. Best job ever, as long as you care about having the best job ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Skyward
09-24-2018, 04:58 AM
OP, the most important thing really is to find the right fit for you and your family. If you find the company that best matches your desires and goals, then you will be happy and enjoy your job.

For me, schedule flexibility and being gone no more than 3 days in a row ranks highest. I want to be able to take off when I need to and adjust my schedule around my life. On a recent month I had off 24days through the give away process just because I had stuff to do. SW works great for me. I can take off when I need to, most trips are 3 days, I can make extra money when I want to, and other reasons. If I wanted to fly a widebody, relief pilot, multiple aircraft types, bid with PBS, be based in a certain city, wear a hat or didn’t like the 737 then SW would not be a good fit. None of those things matter to me, but they might matter to someone else.

SWA, UAL, AA, DAL, Fedex are all great careers, but each has it’s own pros and cons. I would encourage anyone with a choice to read the contracts, talk to as many peeps as possible and jumpseat if you can. If you don’t have a choice, then absolutely go to the first one that calls because it’ll be much easier to get to your first choice later.

mainlineAF
09-24-2018, 09:24 AM
Doesnít matter.

SWA you can drop down to zero if you want to. Canít do that at UA and AA.

You could go to UA and pick up shortcall all the time and never leave -and make extra in SC assignments.

AA and UA will have better seniority no doubt.



Flip a coin



You can drop to zero at AA.

mainlineAF
09-24-2018, 09:31 AM
Itís almost there at AA now.



The guys at AA who got airbus captain last bid were just over 5 years. When they start getting paid airbus captain pay on dec 1 they will be just under 5.5 years.

RJSAviator76
09-24-2018, 09:47 AM
You are way off on your rosy projection of upgrade dropping to 5-6 year mark in the near future. I agree that it will come down from the current 10 yrs that it has been for the last 7 years but it will not come down to 5-6 for anyone. It will slowly come down to 8.5 over the next two years and then may come down to 7-7.5 but you're wearing a very dark shade of rose colored glasses if you think anyone on the current seniority list will upgrade in 5-6 years from date of hire.


Here's what I'm basing my guesstimate on:

https://fapa.aero/hiringhistory.asp

Look at how many pilots we hired in 2009-2014. Compare that to number hired in 2017 alone.

Here are the unknowns...

Over a 1000 FO's can hold captain that are bypassing. How long will they continue to bypass?

LAX base... junior or senior? Once it starts growing, how many guys will take the 6-month lock vs. just wait out for non-ETOPS bid in OAK (presumptive junior CA bid)?

Now, 600ish total upgrades in 2019 of which 400ish in the first 6 months.

What are you basing your predictions on?

Salukidawg
09-24-2018, 01:03 PM
Iíd base my predictions on that 5 years is an eternity in the Airline Industry. Projections are just that..projections. GK likes to merge (acquire) other Airlines every ten years or so. The last one, AirTran was September 2010...So, I would expect another merger (acquisition) within the next 2-3 years. Age 67-70 could also slow upgrades if passed by Congress as well as the eventual next recession. Just too many variables that have yet to unfold to give an accurate upgrade timetable IMO.

WHACKMASTER
09-24-2018, 01:04 PM
Here's what I'm basing my guesstimate on:

https://fapa.aero/hiringhistory.asp

Look at how many pilots we hired in 2009-2014. Compare that to number hired in 2017 alone.

Here are the unknowns...

Over a 1000 FO's can hold captain that are bypassing. How long will they continue to bypass?

LAX base... junior or senior? Once it starts growing, how many guys will take the 6-month lock vs. just wait out for non-ETOPS bid in OAK (presumptive junior CA bid)?

Now, 600ish total upgrades in 2019 of which 400ish in the first 6 months.

What are you basing your predictions on?

The roughly 1000 FOs that bypass will constantly be there. As long as our pay is good even for FOs, there will always be a large chunk that say, ď250K a year is plenty & a great QOL is not worth ruining by upgradingĒ.

WHACKMASTER
09-24-2018, 01:06 PM
Where are you guys getting the 600/400 upgrades next year anyway?

e6bpilot
09-24-2018, 01:27 PM
Where are you guys getting the 600/400 upgrades next year anyway?



Just to even out the list. Jesus. The FO side is like a freaking pimple ready to pop right now. The November vacancy is a sad reminder of how overmanned we are. I cannot wait to see the DRO list for November!
Captains, meanwhile, are still able to crush premium on the weekends and still get rerouted and have trips extended on the regular. It has to even out at some point.

Peacock
09-24-2018, 01:59 PM
Just to even out the list. Jesus. The FO side is like a freaking pimple ready to pop right now. The November vacancy is a sad reminder of how overmanned we are. I cannot wait to see the DRO list for November!
Captains, meanwhile, are still able to crush premium on the weekends and still get rerouted and have trips extended on the regular. It has to even out at some point.

Itís great for people like me who are junior and live in base. I sit home on reserve more than half the time.

e6bpilot
09-24-2018, 02:56 PM
That is the silver lining of the whole thing for sure. Legacy manning equals legacy reserve utilization.
It sucks for guys who like to trip trade and play the open time game, though, which is a big part of the secret sauce here. I would like to see it swing back towards equilibrium.

TRZ06
09-24-2018, 07:04 PM
I work for SWA. You really canít go wrong with any of your choices.
SWA - unparalleled flexibility and amazing QOL and/or income potential living in a mega base.
AA - holy seniority movement...financials not as good as other carriers but your job is basically furlough proof due to retirements.
UA - decent seniority movement and the ability to switch between wide and narrow body flying. The most wide body flying of any major carrier and a huge base in ORD that goes fairly junior.

I envy your decision. Best of luck.

You are probably right.
But that term "furlough proof" (AA) beckons DP's last comment on never recording a loss again. I know, that would take an unmitigated catastrophe to happen. Live and learn...

Profane Kahuna
09-25-2018, 03:08 AM
I turned down swa after seeing my friends schedule for 4 months. He had been at swa almost 2 yrs and it was every weekend. Not one weekend off. Everyone is on the 737 he explained and you are competing with the entire seniority list and the only desirable attribute is weekdays. Company is awesome and every pax loves swa but that weekends forever deal didnt appeal to me. Maybe I screwed up but I wont know for a few years.



I have 3 weekends off this month, which is my 6th month flying the line at SWA.

WHACKMASTER
09-25-2018, 03:30 AM
I have 3 weekends off this month, which is my 6th month flying the line at SWA.

Of course. It is September when our block hours are very low. Try that in the summer being junior in your seat.

At SWA schedule flexibility is great......as long as you want to work more or are in the top 10% in your seat and can get trips that others will actually pick up from you. There is no straight ďdropĒ.

Profane Kahuna
09-25-2018, 03:52 AM
At SWA schedule flexibility is great......as long as you want to work more or are in the top 10% in your seat and can get trips that others will actually pick up from you. There is no straight ďdropĒ.

Iím in the bottom 10% and others picked up trips from me.

Skyward
09-25-2018, 04:20 AM
Of course. It is September when our block hours are very low. Try that in the summer being junior in your seat.

At SWA schedule flexibility is great......as long as you want to work more or are in the top 10% in your seat and can get trips that others will actually pick up from you. There is no straight “drop”.

I had every weekend off in june and july and 3 of them off in aug, and i’ve almost been here a year. ELITT is a beautiful thing :)

WHACKMASTER
09-25-2018, 04:55 AM
I think whatís going on is that the FOís side is and was so over staffed that guys were desperate to pick up. Premium was at a, well.....premium.

ELITT is a beautiful thing......until the red days hit on the weekends. Then youíre stuck with your weekend trips.

Good on you guys if you were able to get some weekends off being relatively junior. I just donít want the people reading this to think that thatís the norm.

Letís see if thatís an option for the junior FOs next summer after they upgrade 400+ in the first half of the year (a good ďproblemĒ to have).

RJSAviator76
09-25-2018, 05:24 AM
Not many red days on FO side... in any case, not nearly as many as on the captain side.

SuperEZE
09-25-2018, 06:10 AM
I think whatís going on is that the FOís side is and was so over staffed that guys were desperate to pick up. Premium was at a, well.....premium.

ELITT is a beautiful thing......until the red days hit on the weekends. Then youíre stuck with your weekend trips.

Good on you guys if you were able to get some weekends off being relatively junior. I just donít want the people reading this to think that thatís the norm.

Letís see if thatís an option for the junior FOs next summer after they upgrade 400+ in the first half of the year (a good ďproblemĒ to have).Thanks for adding some important details here.
This is a prime example of how a discussion can shed a lot more light on a situation than contract comparison table could ever do.

Could someone quickly explain ELITT and red days at SW
Also for those at the other two, how drops and reserve day trades work AA and UA, first hand knowledge.

I'm sure many are benefitting from this discussion

Peacock
09-25-2018, 06:16 AM
Thanks for adding some important details here.
This is a prime example of how a discussion can shed a lot more light on a situation than contract comparison table could ever do.

Could someone quickly explain ELITT and red days at SW
Also for those at the other two, how drops and reserve day trades work AA and UA, first hand knowledge.

I'm sure many are benefitting from this discussion

ELITT is trip trading with the company. Each month on the 25th it opens for the next month and in a flurry of about 20 minutes weekday and high paying trips are gone and weekend and min paying trips remain.

When too many people trade off of a certain day it turns red and no one else can ELITT away from that day.

Iíll also add that if you live in base and want weekends off reserve is a good option. I get most weekends off and I just finished year one.

Profane Kahuna
09-25-2018, 06:34 AM
Thanks for adding some important details here.
This is a prime example of how a discussion can shed a lot more light on a situation than contract comparison table could ever do.

Could someone quickly explain ELITT and red days at SW
Also for those at the other two, how drops and reserve day trades work AA and UA, first hand knowledge.

I'm sure many are benefitting from this discussion

ELITT is trading with the company. The company has a bank of uncovered trips at each base. If you find a trip you want in this bank you can trade like for like. So trade your 3 day for a 3 day from the company bank. It gets way more complex than this (you could trade your 3 day to a 4 day, while reducing one of your other 3 days to a 2 day) but basically ELITT is trading with company and TTGA is trading with other pilots.

TexasFlight
09-25-2018, 07:19 AM
Regarding Southwest, ďDrop to ZeroĒ is somewhat misleading. You can Give away your entire schedule to another Pilot(s) but you can only ďdropĒ 4 duty periods a month back to the company. Not perfect but provides some flexibility.

ELITT, our trip trade system, is pretty effective. If you are not on reserve and you want weekends off, its there for the taking. Even for the very junior.

Another note, roughly 85% of our trips are 3 days or less. Not everyone loves this(commuters, vacation bidders) but not doing a 4 day every week has a remarkable effect on qol.

GuardPolice
09-25-2018, 08:10 AM
Is ELITT seniority based or FCFS?

Peacock
09-25-2018, 09:13 AM
Is ELITT seniority based or FCFS?
First come first serve

GuardPolice
09-25-2018, 09:29 AM
First come first serve



Ahh, so thatís why junior guys are able to get better schedules with relative ease. If it was seniority based this thread would have a different tune.

Peacock
09-25-2018, 09:47 AM
Ahh, so thatís why junior guys are able to get better schedules with relative ease. If it was seniority based this thread would have a different tune.

Thereís also a ton of trading pilot to pilot which is obviously heavily influenced by seniority. Many of the most senior give away/trade down so they can pick up premium trips.

Skyward
09-25-2018, 05:56 PM
I think whatís going on is that the FOís side is and was so over staffed that guys were desperate to pick up. Premium was at a, well.....premium.

ELITT is a beautiful thing......until the red days hit on the weekends. Then youíre stuck with your weekend trips.

Good on you guys if you were able to get some weekends off being relatively junior. I just donít want the people reading this to think that thatís the norm.

Letís see if thatís an option for the junior FOs next summer after they upgrade 400+ in the first half of the year (a good ďproblemĒ to have).

Thatís true. I am a newb, so I donít have a long time here to compare my recent months to. My first year has been better than expected, but that would change quickly with leaner staffing.

Battlinbear21
09-26-2018, 07:19 AM
Iím after the same thing.. quality above quantity. A lot can change in the next 5 years, but you should be able to hold widebody with ease at Yonited and possibly AA. (Parking 330ís 75/76 and 1-1 swap w 78) Sitting short call you might work what a trip a month? Friend in the 76 in PHL didnít work for 183 days in a row. Widebody Short call is the gravy train w biscuit wheel IMO.

JetBlast77
09-26-2018, 09:45 AM
I have this to add as someone who did line bidding and lots of trip trading for a decade and now bids with PBS: I know PBS gets a bad rep, but the right system that is Union controlled isnít terrible. I have much preferred PBS vs line bidding because I used to spend hours and hours constantly trading and swapping to improve my schedule. I would be at birthday parties, family outings, sitting at home, ect constantly on my phone checking open time and trading trips. Yes I was able to have great flexibility and drastically improve my schedule, but at what cost? I lost so much time constantly worrying about this. Now I typically get what I need right out of the gate and donít waste so much time trip trading. If I have to make a change, I can make a trade here and there, or just put in a criteria trade and let it trade automatically if and when what I need pops up.

I will never miss having to dedicate a night of my life every month to trip trading, not to mention countless other days being ďmarriedĒ to my phone. We spend a lot of time with other ďaviation familiesĒ that work under these systems. Their wives all say the same thing: ďeven when heís home heís not really homeĒ. Just keep in mind it might be nice to have the flexibility but that may also require tons of time given up. JMO based on what Iíve seen of course.

DOGIII
09-27-2018, 06:58 AM
You are probably right.

But that term "furlough proof" (AA) beckons DP's last comment on never recording a loss again. I know, that would take an unmitigated catastrophe to happen. Live and learn...



In his defense, he said "basically." But I agree with your hedge; you can never really know in this business.

fiftyone
10-01-2018, 06:03 AM
I am no where near qualified and have a long way to go before even being worthy to read this thread. However, I commend those who provided substantial feedback to the OP and those with similar questions. It is rare to read such a helpful thread that has not been hijacked with negativity.

SuperEZE
10-01-2018, 06:54 AM
I am no where near qualified and have a long way to go before even being worthy to read this thread. However, I commend those who provided substantial feedback to the OP and those with similar questions. It is rare to read such a helpful thread that has not been hijacked with negativity.A big thumbs up
Any tidbits from AA perspective

Thanks all

full of luv
10-05-2018, 05:38 AM
I am no where near qualified and have a long way to go before even being worthy to read this thread. However, I commend those who provided substantial feedback to the OP and those with similar questions. It is rare to read such a helpful thread that has not been hijacked with negativity.

Contentment is generally not a trait found in the average 121 pilot.

The negativity you speak of comes from a sense of frustration in that once you find your "career" airline, after about 12 years, the only way you get a raise is through section 6 negotiations. Top that with EVERYONE has slightly different priorities and pilots will complain about something that others find great.
In my company, some pilots want to be able to work on/sell back vacation. Some pilots want to keep vacation, vacation, and increase it.
Some want more pay and hours each month, some want to drop down to near 0 as much as possible.
The negativity is a manifestation of the frustration when some pilots don't think their priorities are the same as the union's and/or company.
Think there is negativity now...... wait until/when/if there is an economic slowdown/downturn and watch the arrows fly as pay/schedules/lack of progression is affected.

Best of luck as you enter the industry and keep an open mind when you hear complaints. Remember that every single bitter/disillusioned pilot you fly with once you enter this industry was at least at one point the happiest/most content pilot ever and something happened to cause them such personal angst.

Sliceback
10-05-2018, 12:21 PM
full of luv - I was with you until you said the new hires are all happy. Coworker talking about how bitter a classmate was on day one. New hire dinner? Bitterness overflowed. Everyoneís thinking ďyouíre young, you got it made, youíre going to be bitter for a long time.Ē They nailed it. Heís still miserable. Twenty or twenty five years and counting.

TRZ06
10-05-2018, 01:00 PM
In his defense, he said "basically." But I agree with your hedge; you can never really know in this business.

You're right. I don't know and don't feel good about leading anyone in the wrong direction. I hope he and everyone else in his shoes make the right decision.

full of luv
10-07-2018, 09:39 AM
full of luv - I was with you until you said the new hires are all happy. Coworker talking about how bitter a classmate was on day one. New hire dinner? Bitterness overflowed. Everyoneís thinking ďyouíre young, you got it made, youíre going to be bitter for a long time.Ē They nailed it. Heís still miserable. Twenty or twenty five years and counting.

Thatís unfortunate.... no doubt if your unhappy at the new hire dinner you will likely never be content.

tomgoodman
10-07-2018, 10:35 AM
Keep in mind that many pilots are happier than they will admit. There is a widespread feeling, which does have some basis in fact, that failure to squeak means no more grease. ;)

Al Czervik
10-07-2018, 04:14 PM
Keep in mind that many pilots are happier than they will admit. There is a widespread feeling, which does have some basis in fact, that failure to squeak means no more grease. ;)

Very true.

4runner
10-08-2018, 01:12 PM
I was very content in my life and career until I came back to Merika. The amount of bitterness, resent and frustration here is alarming. Itís also toxic and contagious. I havenít gone out with a crew this whole month because I didnít want to further encourage the spew or get spewed on. Pub and a Tom Clancy book in a corner is where Iíve been. Nice to know you, see you at show time Skipper and IRO angry pants.