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View Full Version : Envoy or Spirit


BarrySeal
09-29-2018, 12:59 PM
Target airline = SWA


Need to "check the 121 box" on the resume, I am being told by a few trusted folks this is what I need and after maybe a year of that, SWA should consider my application as competitive. All other blocks checked, to include Turbine PIC and Check Airman. No B737 type.



With that said, does SWA care one way or the other if I am an FO at Envoy, or an FO at Spirit (ostensibly flying "big airliners") ?



would being at Spirit "label me" with some sort of discontent or "works for a competitor" label ?


Thank you


** live in Dallas, mom/dad also here, in ill-health, I need to try to work for a company with an existing Dallas Pilot base"


Otterbox
09-29-2018, 01:01 PM
Target airline = SWA


Need to "check the 121 box" on the resume, I am being told by a few trusted folks this is what I need and after maybe a year of that, SWA should consider my application as competitive. All other blocks checked, to include Turbine PIC and Check Airman. No B737 type.



With that said, does SWA care one way or the other if I am an FO at Envoy, or an FO at Spirit (ostensibly flying "big airliners") ?



would being at Spirit "label me" with some sort of discontent or "works for a competitor" label ?


Thank you


** live in Dallas, mom/dad also here, in ill-health, I need to try to work for a company with an existing Dallas Pilot base"

Spirit....

BarrySeal
09-29-2018, 01:17 PM
Spirit....


Thank you sir


pangolin
09-29-2018, 01:26 PM
Target airline = SWA


Need to "check the 121 box" on the resume, I am being told by a few trusted folks this is what I need and after maybe a year of that, SWA should consider my application as competitive. All other blocks checked, to include Turbine PIC and Check Airman. No B737 type.



With that said, does SWA care one way or the other if I am an FO at Envoy, or an FO at Spirit (ostensibly flying "big airliners") ?



would being at Spirit "label me" with some sort of discontent or "works for a competitor" label ?


Thank you


** live in Dallas, mom/dad also here, in ill-health, I need to try to work for a company with an existing Dallas Pilot base"

You wonít get Dallas with Envoy or Spirit. However you will with Mesa and we have had several pilots recently go to SWA.

BarrySeal
09-29-2018, 01:31 PM
You wonít get Dallas with Envoy or Spirit. However you will with Mesa and we have had several pilots recently go to SWA.


I realize on Day-1, no I won't get DFW. Envoy is about 12 month wait to get DFW, according to another Envoy pilot.


Spirit also has a DFW Pilot base

CaptYoda
09-29-2018, 01:33 PM
Spirit pays better than Envoy. It may be a good enough place to be "stuck" if SWA does not call right away. Envoy would be a path to AA with their flow, but since your goal is SWA, it's not much of an incentive. As far as getting a Dallas base, it all depends on what's going on at the time you get hired. To add to what Otterbox said, Spirit, Envoy, Mesa in that order. If you can commute and to improve your chances further, Sun Country for the B737 Type. Although the type rating is no longer required, it is still considered.

TogaParty
09-29-2018, 01:38 PM
Youíll get DFW within the first few bids at Spirit. Either your 2nd or 3rd month on the line if things stay as they are right now.

BarrySeal
09-29-2018, 01:41 PM
Thank you, awesome info

Smooth at FL450
09-29-2018, 02:58 PM
The specific airline doesnít matter, as others have said. Iíd go for the airline that will suit you best should the music stop while youíre there and you end up waiting longer than youíd thought for SWA to call. Not knowing where you live, Iíd guess Spirit would be a good place to start.

Skyward
09-29-2018, 05:12 PM
The specific airline doesnít matter, as others have said. Iíd go for the airline that will suit you best should the music stop while youíre there and you end up waiting longer than youíd thought for SWA to call. Not knowing where you live, Iíd guess Spirit would be a good place to start.

I agree. It also sounds like you might get DFW faster with Spirit.

Smooth at FL450
09-29-2018, 06:08 PM
Ok I see you live in Dallas...sounds like Spirit is your best stepping stone.

AllOva736
09-29-2018, 07:53 PM
Target airline = SWA


Need to "check the 121 box" on the resume, I am being told by a few trusted folks this is what I need and after maybe a year of that, SWA should consider my application as competitive. All other blocks checked, to include Turbine PIC and Check Airman. No B737 type.



With that said, does SWA care one way or the other if I am an FO at Envoy, or an FO at Spirit (ostensibly flying "big airliners") ?



would being at Spirit "label me" with some sort of discontent or "works for a competitor" label ?


Thank you


** live in Dallas, mom/dad also here, in ill-health, I need to try to work for a company with an existing Dallas Pilot base"

You're really trying to compare Spirit VS Envoy? Spirit has great QOL control and people who make well over $200k that have only been there 3-4 years but yeah. Also don't expect to get called by Spirit just because you think they're a stepping stone.

4V14T0R
09-30-2018, 05:09 AM
Is Envoy still doing forced upgrades? If so, you may never see DFW there.


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imthecaptainnow
09-30-2018, 06:36 AM
Go to Spirit, better quality of life and pay. And that's coming from someone who works at Envoy.

Judge Smails
09-30-2018, 07:27 AM
To the OP, just a little advice...skip the Spirit app and go straight for Envoy. Spirit HR doesn’t want people who view it as a stepping stone, they’ll see right through it. I really can’t believe you’re comparing the two to begin with. Apples and orangutans.

One more thing...Spirit training is notoriously difficult, and there’s no AQP yet (next spring), so it’s a one shot pass/bust type ride. If this is your first 121 gig, I’d highly recommend a regional where the training is more spoon fed with AQP. An A320 pink slip won’t help your chances at SWA.

ZapBrannigan
09-30-2018, 01:35 PM
To the OP, just a little advice...skip the Spirit app and go straight for Envoy. Spirit HR doesnít want people who view it as a stepping stone, theyíll see right through it. I really canít believe youíre comparing the two to begin with. Apples and orangutans.

One more thing...Spirit training is notoriously difficult, and thereís no AQP yet (next spring), so itís a one shot pass/bust type ride. If this is your first 121 gig, Iíd highly recommend a regional where the training is more spoon fed with AQP. An A320 pink slip wonít help your chances at SWA.


Completely disagree. If youíre able to score a Spirit interview go and donít look back. Give the interview 110% and make sure that you convey that Spirit Airlines is the only place youíve ever wanted to work.

Once you are hired and on property, then you can look at other options - but if there is a downturn in the economy, or another industry altering event - you are at a good company where you can build a good career in the city where you want to live.

Yes, their training is notoriously challenging. So donít take it lightly. Put in the work, study and do well. Itís not rocket surgery. Any pilot should be able to succeed as long as you put in the time to study rather than slacking off or drinking.

The ONLY reason I might consider Envoy is if you were going to wait for the flow, but the reality is that Spirit isnít going anywhere. If SWA never calls or you donít get past the interview, then a career at Spirit is nothing to shake a stick at.




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BarrySeal
09-30-2018, 02:45 PM
To the OP, just a little advice...skip the Spirit app and go straight for Envoy. Spirit HR doesnít want people who view it as a stepping stone, theyíll see right through it. I really canít believe youíre comparing the two to begin with. Apples and orangutans.

One more thing...Spirit training is notoriously difficult, and thereís no AQP yet (next spring), so itís a one shot pass/bust type ride. If this is your first 121 gig, Iíd highly recommend a regional where the training is more spoon fed with AQP. An A320 pink slip wonít help your chances at SWA.


disagree...

Judge Smails
09-30-2018, 02:52 PM
disagree...

You can disagree, but I stand by what I said. Good luck with with either path.

CaptYoda
09-30-2018, 03:02 PM
I think the only reason the OP compared Spirit vs Envoy is because of the Dallas base and not for any other reason. Having said that you never want to go to any interview indicating that you have no desire to stay and you are using them as a stepping stone. How you convey that is key to a successful interview. As an example I am sure there are many applicants interviewing with multiple carriers and yet focusing only on that airline the day they interview in thought, attitude and action. On the other hand there are those who lack discretion and reveal more than they ever should. If you want Dallas, apply to all the 121 carriers that have a base there and see who calls you for an interview. Interview with all if given the option (good practice) and then decide based on offers. Good luck!

BarrySeal
09-30-2018, 03:56 PM
I think the only reason the OP compared Spirit vs Envoy is because of the Dallas base and not for any other reason.


this person got it correct.


thanks for the feedback to all, even the negative feedback.

WHACKMASTER
09-30-2018, 06:03 PM
Completely disagree. If youíre able to score a Spirit interview go and donít look back. Give the interview 110% and make sure that you convey that Spirit Airlines is the only place youíve ever wanted to work.

Once you are hired and on property, then you can look at other options - but if there is a downturn in the economy, or another industry altering event - you are at a good company where you can build a good career in the city where you want to live.

Yes, their training is notoriously challenging. So donít take it lightly. Put in the work, study and do well. Itís not rocket surgery. Any pilot should be able to succeed as long as you put in the time to study rather than slacking off or drinking.

The ONLY reason I might consider Envoy is if you were going to wait for the flow, but the reality is that Spirit isnít going anywhere. If SWA never calls or you donít get past the interview, then a career at Spirit is nothing to shake a stick at.




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Completely agree with Zap (once again). Ask yourself this.....where would you rather be stuck should the poop hit the fan? Spirit or Envoy?

Believe me (us).....the $7!t can hit the fan rather quickly in this industry. CYA my friend and IF.....IF you have the choice, go to the airline thatís more of a ďcareerĒ carrier and if youíre fortunate enough to get on with Spirit and subsequently come to SWA, donít be surprised that certain things at Spirit were better.

flensr
10-02-2018, 09:06 PM
Spirit is printing money right now. Getting "stuck" at spirit, under their current contract, isn't much of a step down than getting "stuck" at SWA. SWA has a better pay scale and a management team/culture with a proven successful track record. But spirit upgrade is half the time which cuts the payscale difference to just about zero. Nobody at SWA is scared at the prospect that they might have to spend their entire career there, and even if Spirit is just a step on the ladder for you, it would be a great place to be "stuck" if that's what happens.

Squallrider
10-04-2018, 05:22 AM
SkyWest has a Dallas base too.

Envoys training isnít easy either, I know more people that have failed there than anywhere else (besides maybe Great Lakes)

fenix1
10-09-2018, 11:47 PM
SkyWestís (OO) DFW base just opened in Sept 2018 and was going fairly junior. Also, OOís pilot group just voted on a new compensation package that will likely make them the best compensated regional airline (assuming discretionary bonuses are paid as theyíve been in the past). Lastly, there seems to be something of an unofficial OO to WN pipeline in place right now that could set up well for you. OO is non-union (draw your own conclusions there), but, above all, could well still afford an opportunity to hold DFW in short order if thatís priority #1 given your familyís health - I wish your parents the best & good luck to you in finding the right opportunity, all things considered.

SkyWest has a Dallas base too.

Envoys training isnít easy either, I know more people that have failed there than anywhere else (besides maybe Great Lakes)