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View Full Version : New SkyWest Pay Agreement


savedbythevnav
09-30-2018, 08:58 AM
New thread so it isn't lost in the shuffle.

Hot off the press from SAPA. Here is SkyWest's new TA, as well as the scale comparisons amongst the other regional carriers.

Happy browsing.

SkyWest Airlines Tentative Agreement - November 2018 (https://ufile.io/hk4xw)

Scale Comparisons (https://ufile.io/3scg5)


word302
09-30-2018, 02:47 PM
New thread so it isn't lost in the shuffle.

Hot off the press from SAPA. Here is SkyWest's new TA, as well as the scale comparisons amongst the other regional carriers.

Happy browsing.

SkyWest Airlines Tentative Agreement - November 2018 (https://ufile.io/hk4xw)

Scale Comparisons (https://ufile.io/3scg5)

Vote no...

sn00p
09-30-2018, 02:48 PM
Vote no...

Ditto.

Filler


Check Complete
09-30-2018, 02:51 PM
Just having a hard time with the years of being told we have to be competitive and now they've found enough cash, cash they supposedly didn't have before, to give someone not even here yet 40 grand?

Flying Spike
09-30-2018, 03:26 PM
Just having a hard time with the years of being told we have to be competitive and now they've found enough cash, cash they supposedly didn't have before, to give someone not even here yet 40 grand?

I am only new at this so please be gentle. Could somebody explain how the sign on bonus works if it is only optional? Couldnít the company just opt not to pay it?

Excargodog
09-30-2018, 04:05 PM
I am only new at this so please be gentle. Could somebody explain how the sign on bonus works if it is only optional? Couldn’t the company just opt not to pay it?

Not a Skywest guy so I will express no opinion on yes or no. I'm rooting for the Skywest pilots to get as much as they can because it helps all regional pilots. But basically the newbie bonuses are management's way of AVOIDING raising rates, which are thereafter locked in by contract.

The "option" allows them to continue to attract junior people without necessarily raising the rates of anyone else. And yes, gives them the option of NOT paying the bonus if they think they don't have to. There are several sides to that story of course but it basically gives them the option of paying existing employees less than competitive rates, depending on them sticking around because they would otherwise give up their seniority and start over. My analysis anyway.

Like I said, not my call, but good you at least have something to consider, heavily weighted toward the newbie's as it is.

Gone Flying
09-30-2018, 04:34 PM
I am only new at this so please be gentle. Could somebody explain how the sign on bonus works if it is only optional? Couldnít the company just opt not to pay it?

right now there is no cap on what SkyWest can offer new hires. with this it sets a limit as to what they can offer. I have also heard that since our current pilot policy manual (since we do not have a contract) governs pay for those on property, this may allow them to give the bonus after IOE instead of at the start of indoc so it does not have to be paid to someone who leaves when their name is called by 9E or who washes out of training.

amcnd
09-30-2018, 04:39 PM
right now there is no cap on what SkyWest can offer new hires. with this it sets a limit as to what they can offer. I have also heard that since our current pilot policy manual (since we do not have a contract) governs pay for those on property, this may allow them to give the bonus after IOE instead of at the start of indoc so it does not have to be paid to someone who leaves when their name is called by 9E or who washes out of training.

Bingo.. and unfortunately 40k seams to be industry average right now. Less then a week ago XJT signed the same deal for 40k newhire bonuses. No flack was given over there..??...

Dontfly4free
09-30-2018, 06:41 PM
The reality of it is while we all wish for the greatest number we can possibly obtain (myself included), we can not have our cake and eat it too. On the last TA everyone said they wanted a duty rig and profit sharing etc back along with the proposed rates with more for the captains. The vote was no, management heard the demands and came back with what the group wanted. Now its the old analogy of, "Give a pilot a back full of money and he will complain how much the bag weighs"! These rates that have been given are amongst the industry standard, and when you add in your performance and profit sharing bonuses, can be close to if not industry leading.

The other catch to this is, you say no again, with no union, management is liable to say **** off. Attrition is not bad enough yet, and they are not going to exceed Delta backed Endeavor pay. Endeavor can give huge rates with no bonuses and if the get into financial troubles Delta will absorb them or bail them out. Skywest does not and will not ever have that privilege. This current TA is very good compared to what is currently being paid out, don't be greedy, take the money, get your hours and move on to the big 3. What most people are complaining about will never be here long enough for it to matter, and if you choose to be a "lifer", then your the one who is settling for half the paycheck you could be receiving at the big 3.

Just food for thought.

FlyJP3
09-30-2018, 08:03 PM
When will this TA be voted on, and if successful, implemented? I'm about 3 months from having to make a decision on where to go.

WesternSkies
09-30-2018, 08:34 PM
The reality of it is while we all wish for the greatest number we can possibly obtain (myself included), we can not have our cake and eat it too. On the last TA everyone said they wanted a duty rig and profit sharing etc back along with the proposed rates with more for the captains. The vote was no, management heard the demands and came back with what the group wanted. Now its the old analogy of, "Give a pilot a back full of money and he will complain how much the bag weighs"! These rates that have been given are amongst the industry standard, and when you add in your performance and profit sharing bonuses, can be close to if not industry leading.

The other catch to this is, you say no again, with no union, management is liable to say **** off. Attrition is not bad enough yet, and they are not going to exceed Delta backed Endeavor pay. Endeavor can give huge rates with no bonuses and if the get into financial troubles Delta will absorb them or bail them out. Skywest does not and will not ever have that privilege. This current TA is very good compared to what is currently being paid out, don't be greedy, take the money, get your hours and move on to the big 3. What most people are complaining about will never be here long enough for it to matter, and if you choose to be a "lifer", then your the one who is settling for half the paycheck you could be receiving at the big 3.

Just food for thought.

Do you even work here? Your first paragraph is pretty well informed.
You had 300 hours last spring and 700 hours in May:confused:

WesternSkies
09-30-2018, 08:39 PM
When will this TA be voted on, and if successful, implemented? I'm about 3 months from having to make a decision on where to go.

Implemented Nov 1 if passed by group.
I would temper any optional-bonus expectation.

redbone
09-30-2018, 09:51 PM
Do you even work here? Your first paragraph is pretty well informed.
You had 300 hours last spring and 700 hours in May:confused:

Do you typically analyze and cross reference post history with post content? I really hope he pencil whipped the sh!t out of his logbooks and made it past the system.

word302
10-01-2018, 05:56 AM
Bingo.. and unfortunately 40k seams to be industry average right now. Less then a week ago XJT signed the same deal for 40k newhire bonuses. No flack was given over there..??...

Plenty of flack was given over there.

Puck Hawg
10-01-2018, 06:52 AM
When will this TA be voted on, and if successful, implemented? I'm about 3 months from having to make a decision on where to go.

Pro tip. Go to a wholly owned with a flow and real career progression. Everyone thinks they can ďget in, get off, get out.Ē Yeah. Ask how many 10+ Year rj Captains had that plan and got stuck, because they donít qualify for the silly HR games the majors play.

Pilots no longer hire pilots. Some 25 year old kid out of college now does that.

4V14T0R
10-01-2018, 07:04 AM
Iím happy for you guys to have another decision to make. Itís good to see progress. I find it strange that they want to break your compensation down so much into factors you have very little control over. I get why they want to do it, but given the rest of the industry I find it strange.

Just so you guys have more information, those pay chart comparisons are inaccurate for the comparison to Republic. Your total compensation line adds in 401k contributions, but it does not add those same contributions to the total compensation of any other airline that I can tell. It certainly doesnít add in the contributions for Republic.

How do they calculate the per hour PPS and other compensation methods?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WesternSkies
10-01-2018, 07:30 AM
Iím happy for you guys to have another decision to make. Itís good to see progress. I find it strange that they want to break your compensation down so much into factors you have very little control over. I get why they want to do it, but given the rest of the industry I find it strange.


Just so you guys have more information, those pay chart comparisons are inaccurate for the comparison to Republic. Your total compensation line adds in 401k contributions, but it does not add those same contributions to the total compensation of any other airline that I can tell. It certainly doesnít add in the contributions for Republic.


Sure I get the bonus points but those bonuses are not pilot specific. Every ramper, mechanic, FA, desk sitter etc in the company gets these bonuses. So while I agree it making it tougher Iíd rather not be cut out.
PPS (pilot profit sharing) is the only pilot specific bonus.

To the other point our chart shows 401k *distributions* which require board approval annually and not the same as 401k contribution or the match program. It typically pays well for old timers socking away fistfuls. Itís nothing but beer money for the rest.

word302
10-01-2018, 09:43 AM
Iím happy for you guys to have another decision to make. Itís good to see progress. I find it strange that they want to break your compensation down so much into factors you have very little control over. I get why they want to do it, but given the rest of the industry I find it strange.

Just so you guys have more information, those pay chart comparisons are inaccurate for the comparison to Republic. Your total compensation line adds in 401k contributions, but it does not add those same contributions to the total compensation of any other airline that I can tell. It certainly doesnít add in the contributions for Republic.

How do they calculate the per hour PPS and other compensation methods?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree the comparison is shady, but it's only our discretionary (once per year) 401k contribution that they are adding in there. They haven't included any other carrier's discretionary income to that comparison. "We're number 1 because we say we are".

ninerdriver
10-01-2018, 09:51 AM
Any idea of how much of that discretionary income would disappear if OO voted in a union? I understand that the point of the TA is to dissuade a union, but if you could have your cake and eat it, too, then that would be pretty sweet.

Also, have profit sharing predictions been adjusted for smaller profits after the raises, or is SAPA working from the assumption that profits will remain the same? Or does that not matter?

WesternSkies
10-01-2018, 10:41 AM
If a 9E or republic pilot could chime in it would help. We can go over % later, do you always, sometimes or never have a bonus distributed to your 401k annually?

iahflyr
10-01-2018, 10:47 AM
Congrats Skywest pilots. This looks like a good deal. FOís are finally getting out of the poverty wages category.

I see absolutely no issue with the company being able to offer bonuses to attract new hires. Good for them. Captains actually make a decent living wage. FOís do not. Let them have the bonuses if the company needs them.

WesternSkies
10-01-2018, 11:44 AM
Looks like Wall Street got their hands on the TA. haha

4V14T0R
10-01-2018, 01:10 PM
If a 9E or republic pilot could chime in it would help. We can go over % later, do you always, sometimes or never have a bonus distributed to your 401k annually?



Iíve never heard of this 401K bonus issue. Republic only contributes a certain percentage match to our 401K. With my previous statement, I had no idea this was something separate from the company match.

Getting back to the other issue, if one were to credit 75, 85, or 95 hours, would the other compensation factors adjust? Basically, are the PPS, 401k bonus, etc. fixed or variable based on your monthly credit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

amcnd
10-01-2018, 01:17 PM
Looks like Wall Street got their hands on the TA. haha

The whole airline sector is down....

WesternSkies
10-01-2018, 01:25 PM
Getting back to the other issue, if one were to credit 75, 85, or 95 hours, would the other compensation factors adjust? Basically, are the PPS, 401k bonus, etc. fixed or variable based on your monthly credit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Both are variable with work/contributions.

Skyhawk121
10-01-2018, 01:38 PM
Not all companies have a discretionary 401k contribution. I am guessing that most of the regionals don't. I know the regional I came to SkyWest from sure didn't.

BrewCity
10-01-2018, 02:41 PM
Not all companies have a discretionary 401k contribution. I am guessing that most of the regionals don't. I know the regional I came to SkyWest from sure didn't.

I believe Air Wisconsin and Expressjet are the only regionals with a defined contribution, and I believe the new Expressjet TA excludes any new hire from receiving it.

amcnd
10-01-2018, 03:34 PM
I believe Air Wisconsin and Expressjet are the only regionals with a defined contribution, and I believe the new Expressjet TA excludes any new hire from receiving it.

Willy gets 3% contribution with a match on another 5%. New TA will get 12% match at the top..

Best advice i got as a 23 year old years ago was to max put the 401k...

flywithjohn
10-01-2018, 03:36 PM
If a 9E or republic pilot could chime in it would help. We can go over % later, do you always, sometimes or never have a bonus distributed to your 401k annually?

Depends on what you elect with HR - can be always, sometimes or never.

WesternSkies
10-01-2018, 03:50 PM
I believe Air Wisconsin and Expressjet are the only regionals with a defined contribution, and I believe the new Expressjet TA excludes any new hire from receiving it.

Too not get off topic this isnít what we are taking about.

WesternSkies
10-01-2018, 03:51 PM
Depends on what you elect with HR - can be always, sometimes or never.

You are talking about a 401k in general I believe which is not the topic.

rswitz
10-02-2018, 02:40 AM
Vote no and keep all the FOs under the poverty line. Yay.

Green Needles
10-02-2018, 04:07 AM
Since you bring up 401k, at 9E, you're not fully vested until 5 years. That means if you leave before that, you forfeit a percentage of the company's contribution.

sn00p
10-02-2018, 04:43 AM
Vote no and keep all the FOs under the poverty line. Yay.

#Fakenews :D

Sperrysan
10-02-2018, 05:27 AM
Since you bring up 401k, at 9E, you're not fully vested until 5 years. That means if you leave before that, you forfeit a percentage of the company's contribution.

25-75% of something is still better than nothing.

rickair7777
10-02-2018, 06:12 AM
Depends on what you elect with HR - can be always, sometimes or never.

IIRC you could elect to have a percentage of performance, etc bonuses deposited in your 401k, just like with your normal paycheck.

Separately, I think the company occasionally GAVE the employees direct contributions to their 401ks. I think all of that bonus went to the 401k.

Skyhawk121
10-02-2018, 09:18 AM
IIRC you could elect to have a percentage of performance, etc bonuses deposited in your 401k, just like with your normal paycheck.

Separately, I think the company occasionally GAVE the employees direct contributions to their 401ks. I think all of that bonus went to the 401k.

Yep, that is the discretionary 401k.

word302
10-02-2018, 09:29 AM
Since you bring up 401k, at 9E, you're not fully vested until 5 years. That means if you leave before that, you forfeit a percentage of the company's contribution.

That sucks

TheFly
10-02-2018, 09:31 AM
Itís not a bad, much better than the previous TA. Itís competitive and keeps the company afloat as well.
It will pass.

WesternSkies
10-02-2018, 10:10 AM
After a day Iím going say the annual bonus distributed to the 401k is unique to OO. It is company wide compensation that has been given out every year that I can remember so I can see why they want to include it in the graph. Though since it is not contractual I donít think it should be included.
Then again it doesnít really matter to my situation as bonuses wrapped into wages already puts me with the top two. If they want to say that bonus puts me over the top...sure.
I am probably voting yes for the first time unless something else comes to light.
Running the numbers for ExpressJet it is kind of humorous all the ďthird placeĒ talk will last for one whole month before falling to 4th. But that is in straight wages/bonuses as benefits could make our cost per hour very comparable (except for Xjet newhires).
I would like the max new hire bonus offered to be also disseminated in proration as a rentention bonus over 240 pay periods.

trip
10-02-2018, 02:40 PM
I thought I'd made up my mind but after the latest email I'm pretty sure I'll change it.

Nevjets
10-02-2018, 03:18 PM
I believe Air Wisconsin and Expressjet are the only regionals with a defined contribution, and I believe the new Expressjet TA excludes any new hire from receiving it.

Piedmont also has a small company contribution. Although, none of these three regionalsí B fund contributions are discretionary.


After a day Iím going say the annual bonus distributed to the 401k is unique to OO. It is company wide compensation that has been given out every year that I can remember so I can see why they want to include it in the graph. Though since it is not contractual I donít think it should be included.

Then again it doesnít really matter to my situation as bonuses wrapped into wages already puts me with the top two. If they want to say that bonus puts me over the top...sure.

I am probably voting yes for the first time unless something else comes to light.

Running the numbers for ExpressJet it is kind of humorous all the ďthird placeĒ talk will last for one whole month before falling to 4th. But that is in straight wages/bonuses as benefits could make our cost per hour very comparable (except for Xjet newhires).

I would like the max new hire bonus offered to be also disseminated in proration as a rentention bonus over 240 pay periods.


This is the classic scenario of reaping the benefits of another pilot union. Whatever XJT would get, Inc would give Skywest just enough to be ahead of them...now especially because of the pilot shortage.

Any idea of how much of that discretionary income would disappear if OO voted in a union? I understand that the point of the TA is to dissuade a union, but if you could have your cake and eat it, too, then that would be pretty sweet.



Also, have profit sharing predictions been adjusted for smaller profits after the raises, or is SAPA working from the assumption that profits will remain the same? Or does that not matter?


When a union is voted in, whatever the pay rates, wages, working conditions (work rules), etc were in place become status quo and cannot be changed until it is negotiated between management and the union.

Turbosina
10-02-2018, 11:20 PM
I read RJ's email and can't figure out the details too well. It seems that it's basically a significant bump for junior to mid FOs, a very small bump for CAs, and they're leaving the bonuses alone. Izzat about right?

Oh, and a fix to the ludicrous 'you get incentive pay on 87+ hours block awarded to you' rather than on 87+ hours credit awarded in your bid, which is what the new proposal seems to be.

What'd I miss? And, given that I don't believe a word SGU says, is that pay chart accurate where it shows that we'll supposedly have 'industry-leading pay'? Something tells me they fudged the numbers quite a bit there, but I haven't the patience to go diggin'...

chitolin
10-03-2018, 06:10 AM
I read RJ's email and can't figure out the details too well. It seems that it's basically a significant bump for junior to mid FOs, a very small bump for CAs, and they're leaving the bonuses alone. Izzat about right?

Oh, and a fix to the ludicrous 'you get incentive pay on 87+ hours block awarded to you' rather than on 87+ hours credit awarded in your bid, which is what the new proposal seems to be.

What'd I miss? And, given that I don't believe a word SGU says, is that pay chart accurate where it shows that we'll supposedly have 'industry-leading pay'? Something tells me they fudged the numbers quite a bit there, but I haven't the patience to go diggin'...

Best part of the email is when he claims the economics of this plan does not help us compete for new flying. haha

rickair7777
10-03-2018, 06:25 AM
Best part of the email is when he claims the economics of this plan does not help us compete for new flying. haha

What did Russ say? Vote no?

chitolin
10-03-2018, 06:35 AM
What did Russ say? Vote no?

RJ says is tha bomb. I was referring to TT's email

Otterbox
10-03-2018, 06:45 AM
Best part of the email is when he claims the economics of this plan does not help us compete for new flying. haha

Neither does not being able to staff airplanes...

savedbythevnav
10-03-2018, 07:00 AM
Oh, and a fix to the ludicrous 'you get incentive pay on 87+ hours block awarded to you' rather than on 87+ hours credit awarded in your bid, which is what the new proposal seems to be.


It's based upon awared credit for the incentive. Still nothing special, but it's almost not terrible.

Example 1: You are awarded 97 credit hours of flying. 10 hours will be paid at 130%.

Example 2: You are awarded 97 credit hours of flying, but drop a local so it is now 90 hours. But, you pick up a junior man local that same day because you hate yourself. It is 5 hours. Now you have 95 hours, 3 at straight 130%, 5 at 130% plus the 150% for the junior man. In essence, that local pays 180%.

Example 3: You are awarded 86.9 credit hours. You pick up a trip and are now working 100 hours. 0 hours will be paid incentive. TFAYD.

Nevjets
10-03-2018, 08:59 AM
What'd I miss? And, given that I don't believe a word SGU says, is that pay chart accurate where it shows that we'll supposedly have 'industry-leading pay'? Something tells me they fudged the numbers quite a bit there, but I haven't the patience to go diggin'...


Does the pay rate table not match the pay rates used in the charts? They didnít explained the methodology in how they get from the pay rates to the chart?

savedbythevnav
10-03-2018, 12:16 PM
Does the pay rate table not match the pay rates used in the charts? They didnít explained the methodology in how they get from the pay rates to the chart?

They factor in "discretionary income" from various bonuses into certain lines in the chart.

At the end of the day. Base rate is less than YX and 9E. They are saying that because of the value of our PPS and Performance Rewards that we will make more than both of those carriers.

Skyhawk121
10-03-2018, 01:45 PM
I know performance rewards don't have any guarantee, but at least the pps guarantee goes up with this TA.

chrisreedrules
10-03-2018, 02:07 PM
What is the incentive to vote ďYESĒ on this TA? I guess Iím not seeing it...

It is a decent pay raise for some of your pilot group, and a small one for others. But it falls short of Endeavor and Republicís recent TAs. You do not have a flow or even a career pathway interview program to perhaps offset some of the value in not having industry-leading wages.

And in return the company can offer up to $40,000 to new hires in bonuses. If you sign this agreement any leverage you now hold is completely wiped away and you wonít be likely to see another TA or pay raise anytime in the near future.

Iím not telling you how to vote. I donít work there. Iím just laying it out the way I see it after giving some of it a good look. Best of luck to you all.

word302
10-03-2018, 02:53 PM
What is the incentive to vote ďYESĒ on this TA? I guess Iím not seeing it...

It is a decent pay raise for some of your pilot group, and a small one for others. But it falls short of Endeavor and Republicís recent TAs. You do not have a flow or even a career pathway interview program to perhaps offset some of the value in not having industry-leading wages.

And in return the company can offer up to $40,000 to new hires in bonuses. If you sign this agreement any leverage you now hold is completely wiped away and you wonít be likely to see another TA or pay raise anytime in the near future.

Iím not telling you how to vote. I donít work there. Iím just laying it out the way I see it after giving some of it a good look. Best of luck to you all.

Is that how they're peddling it these days. SMH

Nevjets
10-03-2018, 02:57 PM
They factor in "discretionary income" from various bonuses into certain lines in the chart.



At the end of the day. Base rate is less than YX and 9E. They are saying that because of the value of our PPS and Performance Rewards that we will make more than both of those carriers.


Sorry, I canít see the chart. But what is the methodology of converting the different bonuses into pay rates?

chrisreedrules
10-03-2018, 03:28 PM
Is that how they're peddling it these days. SMH

No one except AAG is towing that line. None of the WO pilots agree with it but obviously they could care less what we think. They put a lot of value in a flow and the fact the WO classes are full despite the fact that our pay and contracts are far below industry standard is proof of this.

My point is just that SkyWest offers neither a flow or a CPP. And yet your wages in the proposed TA are below both 9E and RAH and in some ways are below XJT. I just donít see how this could be a ďYESĒ.

savedbythevnav
10-03-2018, 03:37 PM
Sorry, I canít see the chart. But what is the methodology of converting the different bonuses into pay rates?

I posted the link to the chart at the main thread post if you'd like to download it.

Their methodology was that last TA hourly rates were the same, but we gave up all of these bonuses (except Captains, who got to keep PPS). This time, we maintain the same hourly rates, as well as all of our bonuses. In addition, PPS increases for all pilots.

They are now trying to fold these gains into a theoretical hourly rate to make it look better. Furthermore, they are stating it puts us ahead because some airlines either don't get said bonuses or don't get nearly as much out of them as we do.

Can't tell if the folks in SGU are the worlds biggest morons or the worlds biggest geniuses.

word302
10-03-2018, 03:58 PM
No one except AAG is towing that line. None of the WO pilots agree with it but obviously they could care less what we think. They put a lot of value in a flow and the fact the WO classes are full despite the fact that our pay and contracts are far below industry standard is proof of this.

My point is just that SkyWest offers neither a flow or a CPP. And yet your wages in the proposed TA are below both 9E and RAH and in some ways are below XJT. I just donít see how this could be a ďYESĒ.

It'll be a no from me, but it'll likely pass. You just seem to be pointing a lot of fingers this direction lately. We're all in the suck together.

WesternSkies
10-03-2018, 06:46 PM
What is the incentive to vote ďYESĒ on this TA? I guess Iím not seeing it...

It is a decent pay raise for some of your pilot group, and a small one for others. But it falls short of Endeavor and Republicís recent TAs.

Iím not telling you how to vote. I donít work there. Iím just laying it out the way I see it after giving some of it a good look. Best of luck to you all.

Oh really chrisreedrules. You are not "seeing it". Tell me what math did you give a "good look"?

https://i.postimg.cc/j5x4cYb5/Screen_Shot_2018-10-03_at_9.11.34_PM.png
You have issues with Skywest in general so you come here with weak sauce. Shame on you.
https://i.postimg.cc/nr0Fm71r/Screen_Shot_2018-10-03_at_9.16.18_PM.png

Almost all of 2018 is gone. Anything else to purport for appearances?

Fixnem2Flyinem
10-03-2018, 08:47 PM
As others have said this will most likely pass. A lot of year 2-3 FOís out West right now who are choosing not to commute east for the upgrade. From their point of view 50-55 an hour sounds a lot better than 40-43 an hour. That I can understand as the difference in making 45k a year vs 60k a year is usually the difference in just getting by vs comfortable living depending on the location.

Again, SkyWest management shows their business genius. They donít bump up the rates at all from the last TA, they listened to the reasons why the group said no previously and fixed only those issues. As much as Iíd love to see rates for OO guys at or above Endeavors, management knows that isnít necessary and unless this results in a no vote OO will be back on the top half of the scale but will rely on all their bases and history of stability in order to recruit.

As someone who would love nothing more than the regionals having to pay so much their model collapses, it may take another 5 years and 12000-15000 retirements to reach that point. Iíll be patiently waiting though. The detail one shared earlier about an email explaining that these new rates would impede more flying contracts, that is good. Letís stop the race to the bottom by getting excited for new flying that could potentially be at mainline via 190ís, a220ís, and 717ís.

chrisreedrules
10-03-2018, 11:14 PM
Oh really chrisreedrules. You are not "seeing it". Tell me what math did you give a "good look"?

https://i.postimg.cc/j5x4cYb5/Screen_Shot_2018-10-03_at_9.11.34_PM.png
You have issues with Skywest in general so you come here with weak sauce. Shame on you.
https://i.postimg.cc/nr0Fm71r/Screen_Shot_2018-10-03_at_9.16.18_PM.png

Almost all of 2018 is gone. Anything else to purport for appearances?

I guess Iím not following you? Things have changed repeatedly at the WOs over the course of 2018. Iím not going to share all that has gone on behind the scenes at my regional on a public forum for a completely different airline.

And as far as SkyWest and ALPA that is a topic for a different thread.

So like I said, Iím not sure what youíre getting at or what point any of what you took the time to seek out above has to do with the subject at hand.

ninerdriver
10-04-2018, 04:23 AM
Is that how they're peddling it these days. SMH

Maybe at the AA WOs. 9E pilots don't put financial weight behind the DGI.

Otterbox
10-04-2018, 06:02 AM
Is that how they're peddling it these days. SMH

Thatís sure how AA and WO management is peddling it during contract negotiations... they argue that a flow is financially worth having the lowest pay in the industry.

Skyhawk121
10-04-2018, 08:34 AM
Thatís sure how AA and WO management is peddling it during contract negotiations... they argue that a flow is financially worth having the lowest pay in the industry.

Yeah... That's just wrong. Especially if it is going to take you like 10 years to flow to AA.

chrisreedrules
10-04-2018, 09:34 AM
Yeah... That's just wrong. Especially if it is going to take you like 10 years to flow to AA.

Preachiní to the choir. Unfortunately classes are mostly full and attrition has thus far been manageable. So management doesnít have a reason to see it our way.

Jet Jockey 00
10-04-2018, 09:50 AM
Preachiní to the choir. Unfortunately classes are mostly full and attrition has thus far been manageable. So management doesnít have a reason to see it our way.

Yes, SW has much more pull so to speak. 4000 pilot group they can say no to large bonuses and ask for solid pay rates. No one else could easily staff the large amount of flying that SW does. Pay rates protect the group from a down swing in the economy in the next couple years. They should at least match Republic pay rate for pay rate.

8ballfreight
10-04-2018, 09:54 AM
They should at least match Republic pay rate for pay rate.

You should say yes to a financial advisor.

My User/Vacation bank will bounce $1500 higher in value with a yes vote.

word302
10-04-2018, 10:24 AM
You should say yes to a financial advisor.

My User/Vacation bank will bounce $1500 higher in value with a yes vote.

The real question is what will a no vote get you?

chrisreedrules
10-04-2018, 12:37 PM
Yes, SW has much more pull so to speak. 4000 pilot group they can say no to large bonuses and ask for solid pay rates. No one else could easily staff the large amount of flying that SW does. Pay rates protect the group from a down swing in the economy in the next couple years. They should at least match Republic pay rate for pay rate.

I agree. I think the fact that they came back so quick speaks volumes. You guys have the leverage.

hawk21
10-05-2018, 06:42 AM
I agree. I think the fact that they came back so quick speaks volumes. You guys have the leverage.


We are at a net gain of pilots recent months. We don't have as much leverage as everyone wants to believe. Don't let it get to your heads yet.

chrisreedrules
10-05-2018, 06:46 AM
We are at a net gain of pilots recent months. We don't have as much leverage as everyone wants to believe. Don't let it get to your heads yet.

Right. But what about in 6 months? 1-2 years from now? Management is never worried about right now. Theyíre think a year or two ahead. This TA and the ability to give new hires up to $40,000 in sign-on bonuses virtually guarantees theyíll be able to attract pilots almost indefinitely. And that means youíre far less likely to see any further gains anytime soon

hawk21
10-05-2018, 07:05 AM
Right. But what about in 6 months? 1-2 years from now? Management is never worried about right now. They’re think a year or two ahead. This TA and the ability to give new hires up to $40,000 in sign-on bonuses virtually guarantees they’ll be able to attract pilots almost indefinitely. And that means you’re far less likely to see any further gains anytime soon


Quit the fear mongering. Literally every other company is doing signing bonuses spread out over ~4 years usually. This TA brings us up to mostly industry standard things. The company could already do signing bonuses before this TA. In fact they were.

8ballfreight
10-05-2018, 07:38 AM
The real question is what will a no vote get you?

If it takes 6 months to get another version of an industry leader tying contract Iíll simply be out 5k.

word302
10-06-2018, 06:33 PM
If it takes 6 months to get another version of an industry leader tying contract Iíll simply be out 5k.

Money is not even half the equation.

word302
10-06-2018, 06:34 PM
Quit the fear mongering. Literally every other company is doing signing bonuses spread out over ~4 years usually. This TA brings us up to mostly industry standard things. The company could already do signing bonuses before this TA. In fact they were.

He's mostly been a toolbag on this forum but in this case he's absolutely correct.



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