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View Full Version : Flexjet Three Year Upgrade


Blutarsky
10-02-2018, 07:10 AM
I'm not on Facebook, but I received two screenshots from a pilot who is a member of a page called Corporate Aviation Job Listings. On August 24, 2018 a recruiter from Flexjet said she is looking to hire 170 pilots this year. The exchange that followed is the reason for this thread.
Pilot1: I think upgrade time exceeds 11 years or so?
Pilot2: They say about 3 years.
Pilot1: I was going by what was listed on airlinepilotcentral.com, good to hear, thanks.
Flex recruiter: Hi, Pilot1! We are running a 3 year upgrade. We are forecasting that to be less because of the 22 new aircraft we're getting and all the hiring we're doing.

This started me thinking. There has been a lot of back and forth about whether Flexjet management is honest or not. This is a perfect opportunity to settle the question. The 3 year time period starts on September 1, 2018 and runs through September 1, 2021. There were 245 listed first officers on the seniority list. 10 FOs have been awarded PIC slots since then. That leaves 235 FOs to go in 35 months. It works out to 6.7 pilots per month. Or 7 pilots for 25 months and 6 pilots for 10 months. There is currently another bid for upgrades. It closes this first week of October I believe. Every time there is a bid and/or every month, I'll update this thread. We will all be able to see the facts. No name calling or bashing! Just a fair viewing of the facts!


JMO127
10-02-2018, 07:23 AM
I'm not on Facebook, but I received two screenshots from a pilot who is a member of a page called Corporate Aviation Job Listings. On August 24, 2018 a recruiter from Flexjet said she is looking to hire 170 pilots this year. The exchange that followed is the reason for this thread.
Pilot1: I think upgrade time exceeds 11 years or so?
Pilot2: They say about 3 years.
Pilot1: I was going by what was listed on airlinepilotcentral.com, good to hear, thanks.
Flex recruiter: Hi, Pilot1! We are running a 3 year upgrade. We are forecasting that to be less because of the 22 new aircraft we're getting and all the hiring we're doing.

This started me thinking. There has been a lot of back and forth about whether Flexjet management is honest or not. This is a perfect opportunity to settle the question. The 3 year time period starts on September 1, 2018 and runs through September 1, 2021. There were 245 listed first officers on the seniority list. 10 FOs have been awarded PIC slots since then. That leaves 235 FOs to go in 35 months. It works out to 6.7 pilots per month. Or 7 pilots for 25 months and 6 pilots for 10 months. There is currently another bid for upgrades. It closes this first week of October I believe. Every time there is a bid and/or every month, I'll update this thread. We will all be able to see the facts. No name calling or bashing! Just a fair viewing of the facts!

Do you think it's possibly due to the fact that some don't deserve to upgrade and shouldn't be upgraded? Just a thought. Also, I've got friends that work there on planes other than the Phenom. They have been there 14 months, 19 months, and 28 months respectively. All can currently hold a PIC in the Phenom, they just choose NOT to bid it. In case you weren't aware, they tell you explicitly that the way it works is you come in assigned to another fleet, and will upgrade to the Phenom as a captain FIRST. That is the truth sir! Problem is, is that folks would rather come on here a ***** and complain and whine until the cows come home. They can upgrade now but don't dare bid the phenom, but they think they should upgrade differently than what company allows and that they are somehow special and the rules simply don't apply to them. They've been told they're special and believe it. The fact is, you can easily upgrade in the 3 year time gap they predict, yet people make the choice NOT TO and then openly blame the company and management. If your're gonna pay me 90k to fly a phenom, yes please. Any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

FNGFO
10-02-2018, 09:57 AM
“Deserves” is a pretty specious reason to get bypassed for upgrade. It’s determined if you “deserve” to upgrade by a check/stands pilot in an evaluation and during upgrade class. Not by how much of a company rah, rah guy you are.

Btw, don’t settle for $90k for a Phenom CA. That’s egregiously underpaid when compared to the competition.


Blutarsky
10-02-2018, 01:17 PM
Do you think it's possibly due to the fact that some don't deserve to upgrade and shouldn't be upgraded? Just a thought. Also, I've got friends that work there on planes other than the Phenom. They have been there 14 months, 19 months, and 28 months respectively. All can currently hold a PIC in the Phenom, they just choose NOT to bid it. In case you weren't aware, they tell you explicitly that the way it works is you come in assigned to another fleet, and will upgrade to the Phenom as a captain FIRST. That is the truth sir! Problem is, is that folks would rather come on here a ***** and complain and whine until the cows come home. They can upgrade now but don't dare bid the phenom, but they think they should upgrade differently than what company allows and that they are somehow special and the rules simply don't apply to them. They've been told they're special and believe it. The fact is, you can easily upgrade in the 3 year time gap they predict, yet people make the choice NOT TO and then openly blame the company and management. If your're gonna pay me 90k to fly a phenom, yes please. Any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Looking at the seniority list right this second, I see over 100 pilots who have never been given a chance to upgrade. No, I don't believe all 100 of those pilots are such poor airmen that they do not deserve to upgrade. The most senior pilot (that I personally know) who has never been offered an upgrade is a 2008 hire. These pilots have standing bids in for the Lear and Phenom, so if your very junior friends really are being told they can upgrade, then Flexjet management has already violated at least one part of the employment agreement. I suspect however, that you are the one who is being less than honest here. Bids, in seniority order, are out for Phenom and Lear captains. Perhaps you should remain silent since you don't work here and have no clue what is happening at Flexjet.

SmarterThanYou
10-02-2018, 03:06 PM
Looking at the seniority list right this second, I see over 100 pilots who have never been given a chance to upgrade. No, I don't believe all 100 of those pilots are such poor airmen that they do not deserve to upgrade. The most senior pilot (that I personally know) who has never been offered an upgrade is a 2008 hire. These pilots have standing bids in for the Lear and Phenom, so if your very junior friends really are being told they can upgrade, then Flexjet management has already violated at least one part of the employment agreement. I suspect however, that you are the one who is being less than honest here. Bids, in seniority order, are out for Phenom and Lear captains. Perhaps you should remain silent since you don't work here and have no clue what is happening at Flexjet.

Just my quick contribution, he DOES work here. Carry on...

ATIS
10-02-2018, 05:05 PM
They have been there 14 months, 19 months, and 28 months respectively. All can currently hold a PIC in the Phenom, they just choose NOT to bid it. ay.

What a bunch of BS.

In the last bid awards for Phenom Captain from a week ago the last name on the list was D.F. Who has a hire date of 11/27/2000

So your friends who where at flex from 2015 and later can not hold a Phenom Captain slot. They are full of $hit.

fooled2x
10-03-2018, 03:32 AM
Unless they are dealing from the bottom of the deck again.

Blutarsky
10-03-2018, 04:31 AM
Just my quick contribution, he DOES work here. Carry on...

Then why does he say ..."I have friends who work there" instead of here? And if he works here, does he really believe every single first officer with more than 3 years seniority is "undeserving" of upgrade? Because his posts would seem to indicate that.
Lastly, this upgrade watch is not intended to be a gotcha on my part. All of the anti Union crowd were chanting "give them a year". Now we can objectively see if that was a good idea or not. This is management's chance to shine! And if it's true, I'll be the first cheerleader on this thread! Management issued the challenge of "give us a year!" So here it is! I'm not denigrating, I'm hoping it's true!

fooled2x
10-03-2018, 04:43 AM
Then why does he say ..."I have friends who work there" instead of here? And if he works here, does he really believe every single first officer with more than 3 years seniority is "undeserving" of upgrade? Because his posts would seem to indicate that.
Lastly, this upgrade watch is not intended to be a gotcha on my part. All of the anti Union crowd were chanting "give them a year". Now we can objectively see if that was a good idea or not. This is management's chance to shine! And if it's true, I'll be the first cheerleader on this thread! Management issued the challenge of "give us a year!" So here it is! I'm not denigrating, I'm hoping it's true!
So am I!!!

SmarterThanYou
10-03-2018, 09:46 AM
Then why does he say ..."I have friends who work there" instead of here? And if he works here, does he really believe every single first officer with more than 3 years seniority is "undeserving" of upgrade? Because his posts would seem to indicate that.
Lastly, this upgrade watch is not intended to be a gotcha on my part. All of the anti Union crowd were chanting "give them a year". Now we can objectively see if that was a good idea or not. This is management's chance to shine! And if it's true, I'll be the first cheerleader on this thread! Management issued the challenge of "give us a year!" So here it is! I'm not denigrating, I'm hoping it's true!

Ask him...

Blutarsky
11-28-2018, 09:41 AM
Update on upgrades! They are slightly ahead of schedule. It started out at 6.7 FOs per month in order for a pilot hired today to get his management advertised "Three Year Upgrade". Now we will have to upgrade 6.2 FOs per month for the next 33 months. There are 207 FOs ahead of our hypothetical 3 year captain. The most junior captain is a 2007 hire. They have not announced any bids for captains for December.

fooled2x
11-28-2018, 03:12 PM
But we still have 2001 hires that have not upgraded-and not by their own choice.

Blutarsky
11-29-2018, 11:36 AM
But we still have 2001 hires that have not upgraded-and not by their own choice.

I did not know that. I thought the senior people who are still right seat were waiting for challenger or legacy seats.

JMO127
11-29-2018, 11:56 AM
I did not know that. I thought the senior people who are still right seat were waiting for challenger or legacy seats.

Most are especially in the Phenom group.

fooled2x
11-29-2018, 01:36 PM
I did not know that. I thought the senior people who are still right seat were waiting for challenger or legacy seats.

What made you think that? There were 50 Phenom 300 CA waiting to bid to bigger equipment but were blocked by the company.

Blutarsky
11-29-2018, 03:00 PM
What made you think that? There were 50 Phenom 300 CA waiting to bid to bigger equipment but were blocked by the company.

That's a different thread. This is about First Officers waiting to upgrade. I'm not unsympathetic about the captains who got screwed, but they are captains. This is about the "three year upgrade" for first time captains.

fooled2x
11-29-2018, 10:15 PM
I don't want to be the one that leaves the false impression that junior captains will be going into the bigger equipment.