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View Full Version : Voting yes or no?


rswitz
10-04-2018, 07:50 AM
I'm a first year FO barely getting by. I need the raise desperately. Therefore, I will be voting yes.

What do you all think?


Tippy
10-04-2018, 07:56 AM
Im a three year FO, doing well and hold a decent schedule. I'm also voting yes. I think its fair. Could be better or worse, but overall I like it. ^^^Best of luck ^^^

p.s. I voted no last time

rswitz
10-04-2018, 08:09 AM
Im a three year FO, doing well and hold a decent schedule. I'm also voting yes. I think its fair. Could be better or worse, but overall I like it. ^^^Best of luck ^^^

p.s. I voted no last time

Yeah, I think they fixed the major problems with the last one. I do think most FOs will vote yes, but I know there's a lot of senior captains that will probably vote no.

I would have voted no last time if I was able to vote.


flight81
10-04-2018, 08:21 AM
I think if you are an FO, you should consider voting as if you are a new captain commuting to reserve. At least consider it. If you vote too short term, you may burn yourself in the near future. Food for thought.

P.S - I am a FO.

Skyhawk121
10-04-2018, 08:29 AM
I'm a fairly new CA on the CRJ and this one will be getting a yes from me (the last one didn't). This one fixes the issues that I had with the last TA. You can really only vote based on your situation, there will always be someone who is unhappy with something that someone else is happy with, it's just the nature of the beast.

chitolin
10-04-2018, 11:27 AM
4 yr FO, pretty senior at my base. Will vote NO. No QOL issues addressed, BOB, commuter hotels, etc. 0% raise in 2019


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rswitz
10-04-2018, 11:34 AM
I feel like if this thing gets turned down, the company will tell us to screw off. Then offer nothing.

word302
10-04-2018, 11:46 AM
I feel like if this thing gets turned down, the company will tell us to screw off. Then offer nothing.

You can't be serious. It's a huge step forward but still a no from me. Industry leading or bust.

chitolin
10-04-2018, 12:18 PM
I feel like if this thing gets turned down, the company will tell us to screw off. Then offer nothing.



Arenít you like brand new? Gotta research a little before coming up with stuff like that.


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chrisreedrules
10-04-2018, 12:35 PM
I feel like if this thing gets turned down, the company will tell us to screw off. Then offer nothing.

The company needs this more than you. Never forget that.

Paid2fly
10-04-2018, 12:55 PM
4 yr FO, pretty senior at my base. Will vote NO. No QOL issues addressed, BOB, commuter hotels, etc. 0% raise in 2019


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Exactly, NO!

amcnd
10-04-2018, 01:02 PM
If you read what TT posted or what Sapa says. This isnt QOL. Thatís negotiated separately. This is a ďpayĒ proposal.. they fixed the major issues from last time. Im a yes.


Then yes. Lets get going on parking, hotels, ect...

chitolin
10-04-2018, 01:07 PM
If you read what TT posted or what Sapa says. This isnt QOL. Thatís negotiated separately. This is a ďpayĒ proposal.. they fixed the major issues from last time. Im a yes.





Then yes. Lets get going on parking, hotels, ect...



Well, considering TT and RJ say that iPads are QOL, weíre all going to die waiting for real QOL improvements. Easy fixes: ďcall firstĒ should be for pairings, not RDY. Gimme a box that says you prefer OBR or not .

Also, TT said that with this TA we officially become uncompetitive to attract new business

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word302
10-04-2018, 01:17 PM
If you read what TT posted or what Sapa says. This isnt QOL. Thatís negotiated separately. This is a ďpayĒ proposal.. they fixed the major issues from last time. Im a yes.


Then yes. Lets get going on parking, hotels, ect...

Exactly what REAL QOL gains have been gotten outside of a pay negotiation? MDG increases, changes to our rigs, MRS language, none of these will come outside of pay negotiations.

TheFly
10-04-2018, 01:25 PM
The TA will most likely pass. As far as pay is concerned, it’s a good, not great, but a good deal. With the company expanding as it is, the amount of commuters we have is growing exponentially. With that being said, the unofficial commuter policy has worked for most, but an official one would be beneficial. Anytime I “couldn’t” make it in, I just called in EMER and never heard a peep from anyone about it. I also stayed relatively close to the company average on days called off.

I voted NO on the last TA without batting an eye, but this go around it’ll be YUP.

Six year CRJ CA.

rswitz
10-04-2018, 01:48 PM
Arenít you like brand new? Gotta research a little before coming up with stuff like that.


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What research have you done to prove otherwise? I bet this is your first airline job.

peepz
10-04-2018, 02:03 PM
What research have you done to prove otherwise? I bet this is your first airline job.

You understand that most ALPA carriers donít even let new hires vote until they are a year in, because there is a lot more to learn about the industry.

Side note, be careful with that username as it isnít hard to figure out the real name behind it.

rnfnr
10-04-2018, 02:09 PM
I think if you are an FO, you should consider voting as if you are a new captain commuting to reserve. At least consider it. If you vote too short term, you may burn yourself in the near future..

Spot on.

I beg the newer folks to please keep an open mind,
and consider what consequences a yes vote now could
potentially have on you a few years from now. The
possibility of being here for a lot longer than you think
is a very real one. I'm in my 20's, only 2 years here, and
this is something that wasn't apparent to me when I
first started.

This one is heavily favored more towards the recently
hired/soon-to-be hired folks. I know how some
of those SIM instructors and checkairman (some, not all)
will push the yes vote on you; I was guilty of caving to
this 2 TA's ago. Please don't let anyone do that to you, including
myself with this post. Establish your own vote based on
your own opinions, and personal situation.

I really feel like management needs this particular deal more than we do.
They HAVE to come back with more.

2 year FO
Voting No

Jet Jockey 00
10-04-2018, 02:30 PM
Im a three year FO, doing well and hold a decent schedule. I'm also voting yes. I think its fair. Could be better or worse, but overall I like it. ^^^Best of luck ^^^

p.s. I voted no last time

Your a junior CA, the economy takes a hit. Majors are still hiring but not like now. You have no flow, DGI, or CPP. SO OTS hiring is competitive. You still took all that skunk flying and you are hustling like crazy. You are now at SW 2-3 years longer than anticipated. Now do you think you get paid enough? That is how you have to think.

sn00p
10-04-2018, 02:43 PM
Voting NO.

This amendment is not good enough.

rswitz
10-04-2018, 02:50 PM
You understand that most ALPA carriers donít even let new hires vote until they are a year in, because there is a lot more to learn about the industry.

Side note, be careful with that username as it isnít hard to figure out the real name behind it.

Just saying it doesn't seem gaurenteed that the company would offer something a third time.

chitolin
10-04-2018, 02:53 PM
What research have you done to prove otherwise? I bet this is your first airline job.



4 years here, another 4 at a terrible 3rd world country regional. Iíve done my research and been around OO enough to come up with our many shortcomings compared to our peers, specially since SGU praise we are then ďemployer of choiceĒ .
BTW, reading your previous posts makes you sound like a little troll, posting on Envoy forums about bailing there to get the 45k bonus without knowing whatís required to be a DEC. Being on reserve and not knowing how it works (SADs) says a lot about how much research you put in this gig. If you even work here. Sound like a preteen full of pimples chatting from mamaís attic


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TenaciousB
10-04-2018, 04:14 PM
Leaning no. Junior FO. It would be good for me short to medium term but not good enough in the long term. Though a step in the right direction it doesnít address inflation.

When I upgrade Iíll be commuting to reserve, and though I donít plan for it, could be at SkyWest for many years to come. Iím old enough to the have watched what happened after 2008.

The company will come back with a better offer and soon if it doesnít pass. They will need to.

ajaf1656
10-04-2018, 04:43 PM
I like how people make life choices that decreases their own quality of life then expect SkyWest to correct their poor choices.

trip
10-04-2018, 06:50 PM
Nyet, I will not be responsible for making this company unable to compete. The 40k is irresponsible, swing and a miss.

chitolin
10-04-2018, 06:58 PM
Nyet, I will not be responsible for making this company unable to compete. The 40k is irresponsible, swing and a miss.



TT, is that you?
You win the internet today sir!


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Hawker445
10-04-2018, 07:55 PM
I like how people make life choices that decreases their own quality of life then expect SkyWest to correct their poor choices.

Yeah, I know a ton of skywest guys rolling around in their Porsche...Ö

ajaf1656
10-04-2018, 07:57 PM
Yeah, I know a ton of skywest guys rolling around in their Porsche...Ö

What are you talking about? I'm talking about people complaining about "QOL" concessions, not their hourly rate.

rswitz
10-04-2018, 08:17 PM
4 years here, another 4 at a terrible 3rd world country regional. Iíve done my research and been around OO enough to come up with our many shortcomings compared to our peers, specially since SGU praise we are then ďemployer of choiceĒ .
BTW, reading your previous posts makes you sound like a little troll, posting on Envoy forums about bailing there to get the 45k bonus without knowing whatís required to be a DEC. Being on reserve and not knowing how it works (SADs) says a lot about how much research you put in this gig. If you even work here. Sound like a preteen full of pimples chatting from mamaís attic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

APC forums at it's best right here.

BrewCity
10-04-2018, 08:52 PM
Leaning no. Junior FO. It would be good for me short to medium term but not good enough in the long term. Though a step in the right direction it doesnít address inflation.

When I upgrade Iíll be commuting to reserve, and though I donít plan for it, could be at SkyWest for many years to come. Iím old enough to the have watched what happened after 2008.

The company will come back with a better offer and soon if it doesnít pass. They will need to.

You're looking at it the right way.

The best advice I ever got was: "I came here because Eastern shut down and I lost my job. I thought I'd be here for a year, maybe two. Now I'm 64 and about to retire. My advice is treat every flying job like it will be your last."

Timmay
10-04-2018, 10:24 PM
You're looking at it the right way.

The best advice I ever got was: "I came here because Eastern shut down and I lost my job. I thought I'd be here for a year, maybe two. Now I'm 64 and about to retire. My advice is treat every flying job like it will be your last."

I had Jon Graff as a new-hire too.

rickair7777
10-05-2018, 04:56 AM
Yeah, I know a ton of skywest guys rolling around in their Porsche...Ö

DD had one!

hawk21
10-05-2018, 06:38 AM
4 yr FO, pretty senior at my base. Will vote NO. No QOL issues addressed, BOB, commuter hotels, etc. 0% raise in 2019


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I'm so sick of hearing the "0% raise in 2019" BS. You're essentially getting your 2019 raise several months early and it's significant.

Utah
10-05-2018, 06:45 AM
I'm so sick of hearing the "0% raise in 2019" BS. You're essentially getting your 2019 raise several months early and it's significant.

With 2018 basically over you should be comparing the new rate to the 2019 rate under the current agreement. It's still a good increase for most. If you are topped out on the scale not so much.

The 1.5% for 2020, and 1% for 2021 and 2022, will lag behind inflation. Combine that with increasing health care cost and it's an even bigger loss. Not that a lot of you give a **** about that.

Skyhawk121
10-05-2018, 08:02 AM
I'm so sick of hearing the "0% raise in 2019" BS. You're essentially getting your 2019 raise several months early and it's significant.


Agreed, under this new TA doesn't a 4 year FO go up like $12/hr. or more? I would rather have that starting in November and not get an increase in 2019 over the 50 cents an hour a 4 year FO will get in 2019. One of those options makes A LOT more money than the other. The math is quite simple.

iahflyr
10-05-2018, 08:59 AM
The 40k is irresponsible, swing and a miss.

In other words, screw new hires, itís all about me. Sounds pretty greedy to me.

Iím happy for my friends at Skywest. This seems like a good deal and Iím glad it sounds like it will pass.

hawk21
10-05-2018, 09:06 AM
The 1.5% for 2020, and 1% for 2021 and 2022, will lag behind inflation. Combine that with increasing health care cost and it's an even bigger loss. Not that a lot of you give a **** about that.


Anyone that believes any pay agreement we make these days goes the full length is delusional.

SaltyDog
10-06-2018, 05:50 AM
In other words, screw new hires, itís all about me. Sounds pretty greedy to me.

Iím happy for my friends at Skywest. This seems like a good deal and Iím glad it sounds like it will pass.

And vice versa, in other words, new folks today say screw the old guys and gals today, its all about me. That also sounds pretty greedy to me. New folks better get to leave so follow on new folks in a few years don't say screw them as the old hires.
Funny how that chapter plays forward repeatedly.
And this is how any union won't make it on Skywest property. Management is thrilled. All about me is management win. Zero strategic discipline.

rickair7777
10-06-2018, 06:41 AM
In other words, screw new hires, it’s all about me. Sounds pretty greedy to me.

I’m happy for my friends at Skywest. This seems like a good deal and I’m glad it sounds like it will pass.

No, it's screw people who have not been hired yet. No pilot group is a charity chartered to enhance industry opportunities for wannabees. If you want to do that, volunteer at young eagles or CAP on your days off.

Recruiting is the company's problem and expense, and the wannabees can vote with their feet.

Now with all that said it might actually be in the best interest of the lifers to help incentivize recruiting, since hiring is about to REALLY get going if the economy keeps humming along, and they haven't yet authorized single-pilot RJ ops. Given that I would be OK with a hefty bonus option for noobs as long as I got something tooo.

Check Complete
10-06-2018, 07:55 AM
Absolute NO vote.

Why?

This entire package is postured to bringing people here at the true expense of those here longer than 6 or so years. First of all is the signing bonus of 40 Grand and the potential of the same person getting an additional 20 Grand reimbursement for their flight training. Every dollar given to people not even here has to come from somewhere, as a result your bonuses will be reduced. (another reason they will not hard fix the hourly scales) I seem to recall all the years where all they could spend was 1 percent, that's it! Now all of a sudden we are flush with cash but still will not spend it on those here, especially the ones with 15 or more years. Don't kid yourself, this package doesn't even keep up with the Cost Of Living projected increases.

So there's one NO reason.

The 87 hours for 130% garbage, this is entangled with so many hoops to get through it is amazing! And you know the company didn't see right through this to build lines with less hours. Remember this 87 hour value has to be in PBS, it's the only way you'll get it. You can't trade up or pick up and get it. And as soon as the lines start getting close to 87 hours they will just turn reserves into line holders and dilute the value to less. The company isn't stupid and now there will be less reserves if you want a day off (ha). If you are not aware how easily the company can manipulate and sway PBS, wake up. Ask the No. 1 in your domicile how they don't get what they bid for: Company Need, in this case lines with less than 87 hours.

Another NO.

Strategic planning. For the pilots, should we finally get our act together and unionize, the company could sit on this TA for years before they decided to talk. With this package, the company has all they need for at least 5 years, maybe 10. If we vote this down and then vote in a union the company will need to get a contract out quickly. Now we would have an opportunity to get industry leading pay scales AND livable work rules! The company didn't come back to the table early because of good will (those days are long gone), they came back because they had too. They have to have what the other airlines offer to new hires.

Why shouldn't those already here get the same thing? I understand it would quickly help some new FO's but think past today or even tomorrow, think 2 or 3 or 4 years from now.

Another big NO.

Now don't get me started on the Credit or better vs. Block or better garbage.

We deserve more, we deserve better.

amcnd
10-06-2018, 10:47 AM
Absolute NO vote.

Why?

This entire package is postured to bringing people here at the true expense of those here longer than 6 or so years. First of all is the signing bonus of 40 Grand and the potential of the same person getting an additional 20 Grand reimbursement for their flight training. Every dollar given to people not even here has to come from somewhere, as a result your bonuses will be reduced. (another reason they will not hard fix the hourly scales) I seem to recall all the years where all they could spend was 1 percent, that's it! Now all of a sudden we are flush with cash but still will not spend it on those here, especially the ones with 15 or more years. Don't kid yourself, this package doesn't even keep up with the Cost Of Living projected increases.

So there's one NO reason.

The 87 hours for 130% garbage, this is entangled with so many hoops to get through it is amazing! And you know the company didn't see right through this to build lines with less hours. Remember this 87 hour value has to be in PBS, it's the only way you'll get it. You can't trade up or pick up and get it. And as soon as the lines start getting close to 87 hours they will just turn reserves into line holders and dilute the value to less. The company isn't stupid and now there will be less reserves if you want a day off (ha). If you are not aware how easily the company can manipulate and sway PBS, wake up. Ask the No. 1 in your domicile how they don't get what they bid for: Company Need, in this case lines with less than 87 hours.

Another NO.

Strategic planning. For the pilots, should we finally get our act together and unionize, the company could sit on this TA for years before they decided to talk. With this package, the company has all they need for at least 5 years, maybe 10. If we vote this down and then vote in a union the company will need to get a contract out quickly. Now we would have an opportunity to get industry leading pay scales AND livable work rules! The company didn't come back to the table early because of good will (those days are long gone), they came back because they had too. They have to have what the other airlines offer to new hires.

Why shouldn't those already here get the same thing? I understand it would quickly help some new FO's but think past today or even tomorrow, think 2 or 3 or 4 years from now.

Another big NO.

Now don't get me started on the Credit or better vs. Block or better garbage.

We deserve more, we deserve better.

More reason to go to a Major.... better benefits, travel, vac, sick, postive space passes, ect. Come to grips we work for a subcontractor... im still a yes. But im out of here anyway... for the reasons listed above. Not having to worry about whoís going to take whoís flying...and getting a schedule and life style that fits my family...

NightFlyer9
10-06-2018, 11:09 AM
Two-year FO, solid ďnoĒ vote. I enjoy my job and love having the opportunity to work for this company but Iím tired of these low-ball games they are playing pretending to empathize and then sending out e-mails that are out of touch with reality and completely insulting to everyoneís intelligence. If you want the best regional labor force itís going to cost money and youíre going to have to make large compromises. Itís not cheap but it is worth the cost.

amcnd
10-06-2018, 12:17 PM
More reason to go to a Major.... better benefits, travel, vac, sick, postive space passes, ect. Come to grips we work for a subcontractor... im still a yes. But im out of here anyway... for the reasons listed above. Not having to worry about whoís going to take whoís flying...and getting a schedule and life style that fits my family...

Shows you the difference between a regional subcontractor and a Major.. lets get real. Only way to say ďNoĒ is to move on... thats the only thing that will get to SGU... when attrition is 100+ a month even after we vote yes for this TA..


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fedex-pilot-shortage/ahead-of-holidays-fedex-leans-on-special-bonuses-to-keep-pilots-from-retiring-idUSKCN1ME0C8

Check Complete
10-06-2018, 02:17 PM
Now you're quoting yourself, interesting....


Shows you the difference between a regional subcontractor and a Major.. lets get real. Only way to say ďNoĒ is to move on... thats the only thing that will get to SGU... when attrition is 100+ a month even after we vote yes for this TA..


The company doesn't care about attrition, they have come out and said it publicly. That is why this TA is like it is. It blatantly shows it doesn't care about the ones here the longest.

The company only cares about the new hires and the ones not even here, they have come out and said it publicly. That is why this TA is like it is. It blatantly shows it only cares about the ones not yet here.

They only care about those coming here not the ones leaving!
We got more the last time we voted no, why not this time?

rswitz
10-06-2018, 07:44 PM
I had Jon Graff as a new-hire too.

Lol I flew Beechjets with that guy working at CFM. Told me the exact same story.

Paid2fly
10-06-2018, 09:27 PM
Absolute NO vote.

Why?

This entire package is postured to bringing people here at the true expense of those here longer than 6 or so years. First of all is the signing bonus of 40 Grand and the potential of the same person getting an additional 20 Grand reimbursement for their flight training. Every dollar given to people not even here has to come from somewhere, as a result your bonuses will be reduced. (another reason they will not hard fix the hourly scales) I seem to recall all the years where all they could spend was 1 percent, that's it! Now all of a sudden we are flush with cash but still will not spend it on those here, especially the ones with 15 or more years. Don't kid yourself, this package doesn't even keep up with the Cost Of Living projected increases.

So there's one NO reason.

The 87 hours for 130% garbage, this is entangled with so many hoops to get through it is amazing! And you know the company didn't see right through this to build lines with less hours. Remember this 87 hour value has to be in PBS, it's the only way you'll get it. You can't trade up or pick up and get it. And as soon as the lines start getting close to 87 hours they will just turn reserves into line holders and dilute the value to less. The company isn't stupid and now there will be less reserves if you want a day off (ha). If you are not aware how easily the company can manipulate and sway PBS, wake up. Ask the No. 1 in your domicile how they don't get what they bid for: Company Need, in this case lines with less than 87 hours.

Another NO.

Strategic planning. For the pilots, should we finally get our act together and unionize, the company could sit on this TA for years before they decided to talk. With this package, the company has all they need for at least 5 years, maybe 10. If we vote this down and then vote in a union the company will need to get a contract out quickly. Now we would have an opportunity to get industry leading pay scales AND livable work rules! The company didn't come back to the table early because of good will (those days are long gone), they came back because they had too. They have to have what the other airlines offer to new hires.

Why shouldn't those already here get the same thing? I understand it would quickly help some new FO's but think past today or even tomorrow, think 2 or 3 or 4 years from now.

Another big NO.

Now don't get me started on the Credit or better vs. Block or better garbage.

We deserve more, we deserve better.












Bravo, well stated!

jpso
10-11-2018, 06:24 AM
Voting now open!

trip
10-11-2018, 07:23 AM
Well the emails were certainly disappointing.

E6BAV8R
10-11-2018, 08:12 AM
If you read what TT posted or what Sapa says. This isnt QOL. That’s negotiated separately. This is a “pay” proposal.. they fixed the major issues from last time. Im a yes.


Then yes. Lets get going on parking, hotels, ect...

I don't think you honestly believe that. When did INC agree to those QOL issues? It just so happened to be the exact time pay negotiations were coming up. The only reason they agreed to spend more money on the pilot group leading into the negotiations is to win the good faith of the pilots. It's the same reason they said "we were done negotiation for the time being" after the last vote was a No; when it was blatantly obvious they weren't. They need us a lot more than we need them. It's all a game of negotiation.

If this gets approved, they have 0 incentive to give anything more. And rightfully so, why would they? As long as new FO's are coming in the door, what incentive would they have to spend more money on us?

I do think the TA is a pretty good one, although I also want to see BOB. Better rates on User and Vacation time would also be good.

domino
10-11-2018, 09:07 AM
Well the emails were certainly disappointing.

Vote yes. Recession imminent. Next package will be real concessions.

WesternSkies
10-11-2018, 10:06 AM
Not industry leading emails.

sn00p
10-11-2018, 10:09 AM
Vote yes. Recession imminent. Next package will be real concessions.

No thanks!

<3

TheFly
10-11-2018, 10:18 AM
Voting now open!


A yup vote from me.
A good pay increase and keeps the company in the game.

sn00p
10-11-2018, 10:31 AM
A yup vote from me.
A good pay increase and keeps the company in the game.

Did yíall hear about the new FOIB?

Installing Kool-aid tap dispensers in all airplanes! :D

TheFly
10-11-2018, 10:42 AM
Did yíall hear about the new FOIB?

Installing Kool-aid tap dispensers in all airplanes! :D

Ever heard of cutting your nose off to spite your face? :rolleyes:

sn00p
10-11-2018, 10:55 AM
Ever heard of cutting your nose off to spite your face? :rolleyes:

El ohhhh elll man donít take everything so serious. Havenít you heard itís 2018, lighten up.

Itís okaaaaaay to poke jokes!:D

<3

WesternSkies
10-11-2018, 11:01 AM
Clickclickboom is back

amcnd
10-11-2018, 11:09 AM
Yes.. its fair for a ďregionalĒ. Could we get more. Maybe, but were already only 1 year into a 5 year deal. Im happy they desided to open it back up 4 years early. And are only asking for 6 months added to the agreement.. i want to see SkyWest be able to grow, and be attractive for people to come here..

Paid2fly
10-11-2018, 02:22 PM
Yes.. its fair for a ďregionalĒ. Could we get more. Maybe, but were already only 1 year into a 5 year deal. Im happy they desided to open it back up 4 years early. And are only asking for 6 months added to the agreement.. i want to see SkyWest be able to grow, and be attractive for people to come here..










Why care about SkyWest being able to grow if you're leaving?


PS: I guarantee they could grow if we had actually had pay and quality of life that was "industry leading" as claimed. If they had actual rates without including bonuses above those of Republic and Endeavor, along with top vacation/user accrual(instead of bottom of the barrel), new hires would be lined up to get in class as the word got out.

amcnd
10-11-2018, 03:07 PM
Why care about SkyWest being able to grow if you're leaving?


PS: I guarantee they could grow if we had actually had pay and quality of life that was "industry leading" as claimed. If they had actual rates without including bonuses above those of Republic and Endeavor, along with top vacation/user accrual(instead of bottom of the barrel), new hires would be lined up to get in class as the word got out.

By ďgrowĒ im not talkig more aircraft.. that could be part of it. But list growth. We need more pilots 5000 total and maybe we would be at a sweet spot for scheduling and trades/drops.. grow as in profits, that in return get us bigger bonuses... leaving has nothing to do with that. Rather hand the touch off lit then burnt out or on fire..

N1CEandEZ
10-11-2018, 03:25 PM
Iím thinking thereís a recession soon around the corner so this is probably the last decent offer we will get. Yes vote for me.

hawk21
10-11-2018, 03:43 PM
Iím thinking thereís a recession soon around the corner so this is probably the last decent offer we will get. Yes vote for me.


Yes. We are overdue for an economic pull back. I think stock market indications this week show it's coming up. I'm not messing around with "let's vote no and wait another six months" nonsense.

trip
10-11-2018, 07:33 PM
But list growth. We need more pilots 5000 total and maybe we would be at a sweet spot for scheduling and trades/drops..

Why would they do that? Our completion is through the roof.
You leaving for a union carrier? Just curious?

word302
10-11-2018, 07:35 PM
By ďgrowĒ im not talkig more aircraft.. that could be part of it. But list growth. We need more pilots 5000 total and maybe we would be at a sweet spot for scheduling and trades/drops.. grow as in profits, that in return get us bigger bonuses... leaving has nothing to do with that. Rather hand the touch off lit then burnt out or on fire..

For a guy thatís been here as long as you have, you apparently have no idea how this company operates.

RemoveB4Flight
10-12-2018, 02:47 AM
By ďgrowĒ im not talkig more aircraft.. that could be part of it. But list growth. We need more pilots 5000 total and maybe we would be at a sweet spot for scheduling and trades/drops.. grow as in profits, that in return get us bigger bonuses... leaving has nothing to do with that. Rather hand the touch off lit then burnt out or on fire..

We will never be in a ďsweet spotĒ for scheduling and dropping. That will never happen unless the the economy tanks to a point of us on the edge of furloughs.
If we grow to 5000 pilots, we will simply pick up more flying to keep the same thin margin.

QOL lacking, Iím a no.

RickRoss
10-12-2018, 08:51 AM
3 for 3 voting No.

tyurchevich
10-12-2018, 12:29 PM
No QOL improvments would benefit me. In base and do CDOs. 11% immediate raise and my bonuses stay in tact. Which was what was lacking from the last one. I voted Yes.

DeltaCorrectons
10-12-2018, 02:49 PM
If you read what TT posted or what Sapa says. This isnt QOL. Thatís negotiated separately. This is a ďpayĒ proposal.. they fixed the major issues from last time. Im a yes.


Then yes. Lets get going on parking, hotels, ect...


This is exactly what the endeavor mec said to us just vote yes because the pay is right and we can fix the other issues later in different LOAís and itís been radio silence ever since on a lot of key issues that people really need addressed to impove QOL and keep more of that money that they gave us in the raises in our pockets. Iím just an outsider and take my opinion for what you see itís worth but your out nothing by waiting and trying to solve some more key issues you have.

DeltaCorrectons
10-12-2018, 03:12 PM
If you read what TT posted or what Sapa says. This isnt QOL. Thatís negotiated separately. This is a ďpayĒ proposal.. they fixed the major issues from last time. Im a yes.


Then yes. Lets get going on parking, hotels, ect...


This is exactly what the endeavor mec said to us just vote yes because the pay is right and we can fix the other issues later in different LOAís and itís been radio silence ever since on a lot of key issues that people really need addressed to impove QOL and keep more of that money that they gave us in the raises in our pockets. Iím just an outsider and take my opinion for what you see itís worth but your out nothing by waiting and trying to solve some more key issues you have.

Turbosina
10-12-2018, 03:35 PM
I'm pretty sure it's going to pass, simply because with the previous offer, not a single person admitted to voting Yes. And I haven't seen a single "VOTE NYET" written on the TOLD cards, ACARS printouts, for the next crew to discover...

Flying Spike
10-12-2018, 03:48 PM
I’m not in the system yet. How long before we know the result?

sn00p
10-12-2018, 05:54 PM
This is exactly what the endeavor mec said to us just vote yes because the pay is right and we can fix the other issues later in different LOAís and itís been radio silence ever since on a lot of key issues that people really need addressed to impove QOL and keep more of that money that they gave us in the raises in our pockets. Iím just an outsider and take my opinion for what you see itís worth but your out nothing by waiting and trying to solve some more key issues you have.

Thanks for posting this. Great insight imo.

zondaracer
10-12-2018, 07:36 PM
Iím not in the system yet. How long before we know the result?

Vote closes on the 17th. Results shortly after. New pay goes into effect 1 Nov if the outcome is yes.

Flying Spike
10-12-2018, 08:40 PM
Vote closes on the 17th. Results shortly after. New pay goes into effect 1 Nov if the outcome is yes.

Copied, thanks

WesternSkies
10-14-2018, 01:15 PM
I personally canít understand the people who are topped out on the pay scale being so against it on the account of inflation.
It is like they donít really understand that a 20 year scale stops at 20 years. I would jump at the 3% bump offered.
I also have a hard time understanding the FOs voting no to 30% raise.
We are in a bubble.

Utah
10-14-2018, 02:14 PM
I personally canít understand the people who are topped out on the pay scale being so against it on the account of inflation.
It is like they donít really understand that a 20 year scale stops at 20 years. I would jump at the 3% bump offered.
I also have a hard time understanding the FOs voting no to 30% raise.
We are in a bubble.

I don't think you have any idea how inflation works.

Do you think the 1.5% in 2020 and the 1% in 2021 and 2022, will keep up with inflation. Do you even know what inflation has run over the past decade or two, or what the Fed target is?

I believe our top 50 seat rate at the end of 2001 was $92 an hour. Do you have any idea what you would need to make now to have the same purchasing power? $131 an hour.

I'd happily accept a pay package tied to the government reported inflation rate. It runs 2% a year.

In four years when this pay package expires someone topped out will have less purchasing power than they have today.

And for those topped out it's not even a 3% increase. Less than 2 1/2.

Not that you give a **** about any of that, or can probably understand it.

Check Complete
10-14-2018, 03:01 PM
I personally canít understand the people who are topped out on the pay scale being so against it on the account of inflation.
It is like they donít really understand that a 20 year scale stops at 20 years. I would jump at the 3% bump offered.
I also have a hard time understanding the FOs voting no to 30% raise.
We are in a bubble.

It's this kindergarten level of economic capability that clearly shows we are our own worse enemy. This person is a management's dream.

For the sake of all of mankind, please don't have a family......

WesternSkies
10-14-2018, 03:23 PM
I don't think you have any idea how inflation works.

Do you think the 1.5% in 2020 and the 1% in 2021 and 2022, will keep up with inflation. Do you even know what inflation has run over the past decade or two, or what the Fed target is?

I believe our top 50 seat rate at the end of 2001 was $92 an hour. Do you have any idea what you would need to make now to have the same purchasing power? $131 an hour.

I'd happily accept a pay package tied to the government reported inflation rate. It runs 2% a year.

In four years when this pay package expires someone topped out will have less purchasing power than they have today.

And for those topped out it's not even a 3% increase. Less than 2 1/2.

Not that you give a **** about any of that, or can probably understand it.
119 to 123 is a 3.3% increase.
So now that Iíve gotten you angry and your math is wrong, what did you think was going to happen in regard to inflation when you got to year 21 on a 20 year pay scale as you spent those two decades climbing it? You wanna talk smarts?

Did you have these current bonuses, work rules, qol & 401k in 2001? Total comp for a 20 year guy is on pace with YOUR provided numbers.

Haha

Utah
10-14-2018, 04:03 PM
Only an idiot would compare our current rates with the proposed rates and not take into account the pay rates that would/will happen on Jan 1 2019. The difference is less than $3 an hour from what we are already scheduled to get for someone topped out in either aircraft.

You really think the annual step increase is suppose to account for inflation. Wrong.

Why do you think all of the other airlines get 3% a year or so on January 1st.

amcnd
10-14-2018, 07:19 PM
I personally canít understand the people who are topped out on the pay scale being so against it on the account of inflation.
It is like they donít really understand that a 20 year scale stops at 20 years. I would jump at the 3% bump offered.
I also have a hard time understanding the FOs voting no to 30% raise.
We are in a bubble.

I agree. As someone pointed out these same people (including me) that started 20 years ago came to SkyWest with the assumption of making 60k a year max flying a turbo prop... Most these guys are making 160k a year+... they need to factor that into there math... i get it. We all lost 10 years of ďcareer progressionĒ after 9/11. Now there looking at retirement in 10-15 years as they look at there 401k and need to save.. And most donít want to start over at a major...As for the newhires. They donít vote off education on the TA. They vote off what social media says they should vote...

Claxstarr
10-15-2018, 05:03 AM
I agree. As someone pointed out these same people (including me) that started 20 years ago came to SkyWest with the assumption of making 60k a year max flying a turbo prop... Most these guys are making 160k a year+... they need to factor that into there math... i get it. We all lost 10 years of ďcareer progressionĒ after 9/11. Now there looking at retirement in 10-15 years as they look at there 401k and need to save.. And most donít want to start over at a major...As for the newhires. They donít vote off education on the TA. They vote off what social media says they should vote...

I would disagree with that last portion... kinda..
I think the majority of new hires have/are going to vote base on anything that gives them more $$ for the short time period that they assume they'll be with the company. In the current climate, a bunch of them aren't planning on being with there for the next 20 years.
That outlook means nothing.

Paid2fly
10-15-2018, 08:40 PM
I agree. As someone pointed out these same people (including me) that started 20 years ago came to SkyWest with the assumption of making 60k a year max flying a turbo prop... Most these guys are making 160k a year+... they need to factor that into there math... i get it. We all lost 10 years of “career progression” after 9/11. Now there looking at retirement in 10-15 years as they look at there 401k and need to save.. And most don’t want to start over at a major...As for the newhires. They don’t vote off education on the TA. They vote off what social media says they should vote...










Seriously? Never made close to "$160,000.00 a year +"!
Are you a management troll, or just drowning in Kool-aid?

Paid2fly
10-15-2018, 08:44 PM
119 to 123 is a 3.3% increase.
So now that Iíve gotten you angry and your math is wrong, what did you think was going to happen in regard to inflation when you got to year 21 on a 20 year pay scale as you spent those two decades climbing it? You wanna talk smarts?

Did you have these current bonuses, work rules, qol & 401k in 2001? Total comp for a 20 year guy is on pace with YOUR provided numbers.

Haha










WRONG!

$113.21 to $116 is a whopping $2.79 or 2.47%, less than the current 2.9% rate of inflation. So, actually going backwards(#math is hard)!

Check Complete
10-15-2018, 09:22 PM
Between amc and the west, I cannot believe the paper thin mind set?

How do you people even dress yourselves in the morning?

Not to mention the lack of third grade math capability?

amcnd
10-16-2018, 05:56 AM
Seriously? Never made close to "$160,000.00 a year +"!
Are you a management troll, or just drowning in Kool-aid?

Not management, and easy for a 20+ year guy doing standupís or LCA.. or even just flying 175/900 all the time..

WesternSkies
10-16-2018, 06:20 AM
WRONG!

$113.21 to $116 is a whopping $2.79 or 2.47%, less than the current 2.9% rate of inflation. So, actually going backwards(#math is hard)!

A 20 year guy bidding the 200... ok
Currently you are being paid 112.09$ with ta offering 116$ 3.5% real money.
And when inflation was recently flat you would have said??
That 1% you are already counting is fine but the fact is you wonít see $116 until 2022. Itís 2018. Do a little hard math and get back to me.

skiK2
10-16-2018, 08:04 AM
A 20 year guy bidding the 200... ok
Currently you are being paid 112.09$ with ta offering 116$ 3.5% real money.
And when inflation was recently flat you would have said??
That 1% you are already counting is fine but the fact is you wonít see $116 until 2022. Itís 2018. Do a little hard math and get back to me.

Iím a 10 year CA making over 160k, and thatís not hard to do with seniority. I donít do 4 days, and my family and I take several vacations per year.

Now if I compare myself to my counterparts at mainline, of course itís easy to find shortcomings at the regional level. Or I could choose to make the best of my current situation, work hard, and maximize the rules available to me. Another thing available is spend the extra time trying to get out.

Melit
10-16-2018, 08:59 AM
Iím a 10 year CA making over 160k, and thatís not hard to do with seniority. I donít do 4 days, and my family and I take several vacations per year.

Now if I compare myself to my counterparts at mainline, of course itís easy to find shortcomings at the regional level. Or I could choose to make the best of my current situation, work hard, and maximize the rules available to me. Another thing available is spend the extra time trying to get out.

Check Complete and paid2fly just got b***h slapped..LOL

Utah
10-16-2018, 10:19 AM
Iím a 10 year CA making over 160k, and thatís not hard to do with seniority. I donít do 4 days, and my family and I take several vacations per year.

Now if I compare myself to my counterparts at mainline, of course itís easy to find shortcomings at the regional level. Or I could choose to make the best of my current situation, work hard, and maximize the rules available to me. Another thing available is spend the extra time trying to get out.

How many credit hours a month do you average? LCA override as well?

Utah
10-16-2018, 10:19 AM
Not management, and easy for a 20+ year guy doing standupís or LCA.. or even just flying 175/900 all the time..

How much do the sim instructors get credit wise every month?

amcnd
10-16-2018, 11:06 AM
How much do the sim instructors get credit wise every month?

Sim guys pull in 160-220k + a year. Depending on CRJ or ERJ. And seniority... LCAís can push 180-200k a year..

rickair7777
10-16-2018, 11:21 AM
Sim guys pull in 160-220k + a year. Depending on CRJ or ERJ. And seniority...

More than that potentially, no 117 limits in the sim. But that's a lot of work and they only fly very rarely.

Paid2fly
10-16-2018, 10:21 PM
A 20 year guy bidding the 200... ok
Currently you are being paid 112.09$ with ta offering 116$ 3.5% real money.
And when inflation was recently flat you would have said??
That 1% you are already counting is fine but the fact is you wonít see $116 until 2022. Itís 2018. Do a little hard math and get back to me.
















Yeah, bidding what is available in my base, mostly crummy 200 pairings.
Inflation isn't flat, and is projected to increase, that's one of the reasons the fed keeps raising interest rates.:rolleyes:

Paid2fly
10-16-2018, 10:25 PM
Iím a 10 year CA making over 160k, and thatís not hard to do with seniority. I donít do 4 days, and my family and I take several vacations per year.

Now if I compare myself to my counterparts at mainline, of course itís easy to find shortcomings at the regional level. Or I could choose to make the best of my current situation, work hard, and maximize the rules available to me. Another thing available is spend the extra time trying to get out.








!0 year CA in what base, and exactly how are you making "over" 160K? It would be nearly impossible with many of the pairings in my base crediting at minimum, or half the duty time.

WesternSkies
10-17-2018, 06:35 AM
This will be such a significant raise to me that operating under this rate for ONLY the last two months of the year will be better than if I worked the entire year with that 1% pay raise for 2018 that we weíre so upset about NOT getting.
All prospective.

rswitz
10-17-2018, 08:15 AM
What pay rate would be enough to turn the no voters into yes voters?

hawk21
10-17-2018, 08:33 AM
What pay rate would be enough to turn the no voters into yes voters?


Mainline rates.

Skyhawk121
10-17-2018, 08:38 AM
What pay rate would be enough to turn the no voters into yes voters?

There will never be a situation where 100% of the population is a "yes". Someone will always find a reason to complain about something, so all we can do is vote for ourselves.

rickair7777
10-17-2018, 09:30 AM
Mainline rates.

That's achievable but not by voting in a regional election :rolleyes:

word302
10-17-2018, 11:27 AM
What pay rate would be enough to turn the no voters into yes voters?

Itís not the rates that most of us have a problem with.

Skyhawk121
10-17-2018, 12:25 PM
Itís not the rates that most of us have a problem with.

What is it that you have a problem with? As a 3+ year CA in MSP I am pretty happy with it and am a yes vote.

hawk21
10-17-2018, 01:45 PM
Itís not the rates that most of us have a problem with.


Signing bonuses?



Most companies are doing it already. Whether you like it or not.

word302
10-17-2018, 01:49 PM
What is it that you have a problem with? As a 3+ year CA in MSP I am pretty happy with it and am a yes vote.

It's the complete lack of QOL improvements. Major QOL improvements will never come outside of a pay agreement. We get so blinded by rates we forget what really matters are work rules.

word302
10-17-2018, 01:51 PM
Signing bonuses?



Most companies are doing it already. Whether you like it or not.

That's a very small portion of my gripes. We should be getting much more in return for it though.

Skyhawk121
10-17-2018, 02:34 PM
It's the complete lack of QOL improvements. Major QOL improvements will never come outside of a pay agreement. We get so blinded by rates we forget what really matters are work rules.

I'm not blinded by rates, but there is still enough there to get a yes out of me. What QOL are you wanting specifically?

word302
10-17-2018, 02:37 PM
I'm not blinded by rates, but there is still enough there to get a yes out of me. What QOL are you wanting specifically?

85 hour cap on awarded hours, include reserves in all guarantees, 150% for awarded hours above 85, higher MDG, better trip rig, real language controlling staffing levels.

Skyhawk121
10-17-2018, 02:49 PM
85 hour cap on awarded hours, include reserves in all guarantees, 150% for awarded hours above 85, higher MDG, better trip rig, real language controlling staffing levels.

Well to touch on a couple of these items, why would they raise MDG when us and Republic are the only two carriers at 4:12 everyone else in the industry is lower. Endeavor is 4:00.

Most of the regionals don't have a trip rig, but all of them that do have 1:4, so it's not like our trip rig is lagging behind the industry.

Maybe it is because I flew for a different regional prior to coming here, but if you went and did some time there, it would be a major eye opener for you.

word302
10-17-2018, 02:52 PM
Well to touch on a couple of these items, why would they raise MDG when us and Republic are the only two carriers at 4:12 everyone else in the industry is lower. Endeavor is 4:00.

Most of the regionals don't have a trip rig, but all of them that do have 1:4, so it's not like our trip rig is lagging behind the industry.

Maybe it is because I flew for a different regional prior to coming here, but if you went and did some time there, it would be a major eye opener for you.

So as the biggest, most profitable regional airline in history we should just wait for others to raise the bar?

Skyhawk121
10-17-2018, 02:59 PM
So as the biggest, most profitable regional airline in history we should just wait for others to raise the bar?

The people running this company aren't stupid. The reason why this airline has existed for almost 50 years is because we are profitable. If pilot costs increase too much, you end up with another comair.

Apophenia
10-17-2018, 03:16 PM
It's the complete lack of QOL improvements. Major QOL improvements will never come outside of a pay agreement. We get so blinded by rates we forget what really matters are work rules.

I wouldn't say there has been a complete lack of QOL improvements. With one the last TRs, we can get a hotel in base after a cancel or reflow, regardless of the layover length (previously it wasn't possible unless your next trip started in less than 12 hours, or if you convinced crew support to ask RG to approve one). We're also moving from the Surface to iPad soon, which actually has a usable modem.

Sure, protection for commuters hasn't gotten any better (and probably never will), but I live in my base, so none of that really concerns me to be honest.

Cefiro
10-17-2018, 03:24 PM
It will pass, every FO Iíve flown with is a yes.

Utah
10-17-2018, 03:30 PM
The people running this company aren't stupid. The reason why this airline has existed for almost 50 years is because we are profitable. If pilot costs increase too much, you end up with another comair.

Republic's current contract is better than this proposal and they aren't going out of business.

word302
10-17-2018, 03:43 PM
I wouldn't say there has been a complete lack of QOL improvements. With one the last TRs, we can get a hotel in base after a cancel or reflow, regardless of the layover length (previously it wasn't possible unless your next trip started in less than 12 hours, or if you convinced crew support to ask RG to approve one). We're also moving from the Surface to iPad soon, which actually has a usable modem.

Sure, protection for commuters hasn't gotten any better (and probably never will), but I live in my base, so none of that really concerns me to be honest.
so hotels that they were already giving and iPad's are your idea of qol? This is why we can't have nice things.

word302
10-17-2018, 03:44 PM
Republic's current contract is better than this proposal and they aren't going out of business.

This. Times infinity. Our margins are much better than there's as well.

word302
10-17-2018, 03:46 PM
The people running this company aren't stupid. The reason why this airline has existed for almost 50 years is because we are profitable. If pilot costs increase too much, you end up with another comair.

This industry is completely different now. Flying does not go to the lowest bidder, it goes to whoever can staff. Comair was also wholly-owned. You're comparing apples to sauerkraut.

rickair7777
10-17-2018, 03:55 PM
This industry is completely different now. Flying does not go to the lowest bidder, it goes to whoever can staff. Comair was also wholly-owned. You're comparing apples to sauerkraut.

And SKW can staff, that's how they got so huge. Other regionals have failed catastrophically when trying to implement new flying due to staffing issues.

Paid2fly
10-17-2018, 06:43 PM
Well to touch on a couple of these items, why would they raise MDG when us and Republic are the only two carriers at 4:12 everyone else in the industry is lower. Endeavor is 4:00.

Most of the regionals don't have a trip rig, but all of them that do have 1:4, so it's not like our trip rig is lagging behind the industry.

Maybe it is because I flew for a different regional prior to coming here, but if you went and did some time there, it would be a major eye opener for you.










I believe TSA has 4:25 for MDG.

George Church
10-17-2018, 06:57 PM
What are the results on the TA vote?

hawk21
10-17-2018, 07:12 PM
What are the results on the TA vote?

Nobody knows yet. We were supposed to know an hour ago.

savedbythevnav
10-17-2018, 07:12 PM
What are the results on the TA vote?

The SAPA website crashed, so it is unknown.

Several ďsourcesĒ claim it passed. By what margin Iím not sure.

Bjorn Smorgendi
10-17-2018, 07:36 PM
Wonder if ALPA websites crash at the end of a vote? Please excuse my ignorance:eek:

I have no idea how this garbage could pass!! We are supposed to be the best pilot group in the industry, yet we accept lower pay because management sends threatening emails during the voting period. Wake up Skywest people.

Bjorn Smorgendi
10-17-2018, 07:39 PM
SAPA is still trying to figure out how they can swing it...

Hatrick32
10-17-2018, 07:42 PM
Passed 66-34

Bjorn Smorgendi
10-17-2018, 07:42 PM
The SAPA website crashed, so it is unknown.

Several ďsourcesĒ claim it passed. By what margin Iím not sure.

I wonder if the ALPA website crashes after a vote? :eek:

greenroute
10-17-2018, 07:42 PM
I have it on authority from a high up source at SAPA that they are currently dealing with a DDOS attack on the website originating in Utah that they are trying to track down. Waiting on confirmation from IT specialist.

Bjorn Smorgendi
10-17-2018, 07:49 PM
Passed 66-34

Wonder why 66% of Skywest pilots think that they do not deserve to be the best paid regional pilots in the industry. No, I don't think the company provided "adjusted total pay numbers" equal industry leading pay. The only way you can guarantee your pay is through your guaranteed hourly rate, not some fancy math that is predicated on company performance.

We just voted to accept pay cuts each year for the foreseeable future as inflation eats away at our income. Brilliant.

Please feel free to educate me on why I am wrong.

savedbythevnav
10-17-2018, 07:53 PM
Wonder why 66% of Skywest pilots think that they do not deserve to be the best paid regional pilots in the industry. No, I don't think the company provided "adjusted total pay numbers" equal industry leading pay. The only way you can guarantee your pay is through your guaranteed hourly rate, not some fancy math that is predicated on company performance.

We just voted to accept pay cuts each year for the foreseeable future as inflation eats away at our income. Brilliant.

Please feel free to educate me on why I am wrong.

Leave that to Capt. Dr. RG

Skyhawk121
10-17-2018, 07:55 PM
I have it on authority from a high up source at SAPA that they are currently dealing with a DDOS attack on the website originating in Utah that they are trying to track down. Waiting on confirmation from IT specialist.

Well it would have to be someone who didnít want the vote to pass, so probably not the company.

Skyhawk121
10-17-2018, 07:57 PM
I wonder if the ALPA website crashes after a vote? :eek:

Expressjet had issues on their last vote, the site crashed when the vote was ending. They happen to be ALPA.

amcnd
10-17-2018, 08:01 PM
Wonder why 66% of Skywest pilots think that they do not deserve to be the best paid regional pilots in the industry. No, I don't think the company provided "adjusted total pay numbers" equal industry leading pay. The only way you can guarantee your pay is through your guaranteed hourly rate, not some fancy math that is predicated on company performance.

We just voted to accept pay cuts each year for the foreseeable future as inflation eats away at our income. Brilliant.

Please feel free to educate me on why I am wrong.

Ask again when we have a year under our belts with this TA. Then lets look at my W2. And my QOL. Still better then my friends at other regionals before this TA...

Skyhawk121
10-17-2018, 08:03 PM
Ask again when we have a year under our belts with this TA. Then lets look at my W2. And my QOL. Still better then my friends at other regionals before this TA...

Thatís what I have tried to tell people as well, but some wonít listen unless your opinion matches theirs.

hawk21
10-17-2018, 08:05 PM
Thatís what I have tried to tell people as well, but some wonít listen unless your opinion matches theirs.

Itís the same group of people that complain about everything here. Literally no pleasing some.

WesternSkies
10-17-2018, 08:07 PM
I have it on authority from a high up source at SAPA that they are currently dealing with a DDOS attack on the website originating in Utah that they are trying to track down. Waiting on confirmation from IT specialist.

Bull-loney
There is no need for a DDOS because every Tom dick and Harry is logging on anyway at the same time.
Same thing happened every 24th when bids were published and we essentially ďDDOSídĒ ourselves.

flyfast2u
10-17-2018, 08:08 PM
Amazing that 14% of people didn't even bother to vote

WesternSkies
10-17-2018, 08:10 PM
Thanks everyone for the turnout. It is good to see so many people interested.

TheFly
10-17-2018, 09:07 PM
Landslide Yup vote....



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