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mcnitchell
10-11-2018, 10:20 AM
Question - What is a realistic expectation of time to go from newbie right seat FO at Skywest, or any regional, to a major airline? Do I have enough time left to make it to one?

I am a happily married dad of three kids. Currently living in LA and work full time as a Police Officer (11 years now) and part time CFI. Prior to becoming a Police Officer, I flew RJ's for American Eagle.

Wife and I want to leave this state and pursue another shot at the airlines. We know what we'd be giving up; pay, pay, me at home nightly, and more pay. I'm (wife included) tired of being a cop and living in California. I'm sure some of you will call me crazy, but it is what it is.

I have 25 years left to give to the industry. I know this hiring trend wont last forever, and a recession is inevitable. It would suck to get hired at the tail end of this wave and be stuck in the right seat at the regional level for God knows how long. That's my only concern honestly.

I'm open to any thoughts, advise, criticism, or whatever.

Thanks.


Otterbox
10-11-2018, 10:24 AM
Question - What is a realistic expectation of time to go from newbie right seat FO at Skywest, or any regional, to a major airline? Do I have enough time left to make it to one?

I am a happily married dad of three kids. Currently living in LA and work full time as a Police Officer (11 years now) and part time CFI. Prior to becoming a Police Officer, I flew RJ's for American Eagle.

Wife and I want to leave this state and pursue another shot at the airlines. We know what we'd be giving up; pay, pay, me at home nightly, and more pay. I'm (wife included) tired of being a cop and living in California. I'm sure some of you will call me crazy, but it is what it is.

I have 25 years left to give to the industry. I know this hiring trend wont last forever, and a recession is inevitable. It would suck to get hired at the tail end of this wave and be stuck in the right seat at the regional level for God knows how long. That's my only concern honestly.

I'm open to any thoughts, advise, criticism, or whatever.

Thanks.

Depends on what comapnies you apply for. I’ve got buddies who have the option to upgrade at Skywest or go to 2nd tier majors and ACMIs and they’re just finishing up their first year on property.

Myfingershurt
10-11-2018, 05:17 PM
Question - What is a realistic expectation of time to go from newbie right seat FO at Skywest, or any regional, to a major airline? Do I have enough time left to make it to one?

I am a happily married dad of three kids. Currently living in LA and work full time as a Police Officer (11 years now) and part time CFI. Prior to becoming a Police Officer, I flew RJ's for American Eagle.

Wife and I want to leave this state and pursue another shot at the airlines. We know what we'd be giving up; pay, pay, me at home nightly, and more pay. I'm (wife included) tired of being a cop and living in California. I'm sure some of you will call me crazy, but it is what it is.

I have 25 years left to give to the industry. I know this hiring trend wont last forever, and a recession is inevitable. It would suck to get hired at the tail end of this wave and be stuck in the right seat at the regional level for God knows how long. That's my only concern honestly.

I'm open to any thoughts, advise, criticism, or whatever.

Thanks.

Leaving California is the most sane thing you could ever do! Even if you don’t go to an airline you’d still be better off leaving that ridiculous place.


mcnitchell
10-11-2018, 06:00 PM
Leaving California is the most sane thing you could ever do! Even if you don’t go to an airline you’d still be better off leaving that ridiculous place.

Couldn't agree more. We are hopefully Arizona bound since that's where family and friends reside.

trip
10-11-2018, 07:29 PM
If you have a 4yr then you should be in the balk park in 3-6 yrs. Do the usual stuff like training, union, volunteer work to pad the resume for increased points.

mcnitchell
10-12-2018, 05:13 AM
If you have a 4yr then you should be in the balk park in 3-6 yrs. Do the usual stuff like training, union, volunteer work to pad the resume for increased points.

OK cool, thanks. Yes I have a 4yr. I did an internship with Alaska back in my college days and I received a letter from the CP guaranteeing me an interview. I still have the letter. You think they’ll honor it after all these years? :D :p :rolleyes:

Humpty d
10-12-2018, 05:28 AM
If you have a 4yr then you should be in the balk park in 3-6 yrs. Do the usual stuff like training, union, volunteer work to pad the resume for increased points.

I've never understood what volunteer work has to do with someone getting an airline job. Never come across that concept anywhere before except for the states. :confused:

tomgoodman
10-12-2018, 01:44 PM
I've never understood what volunteer work has to do with someone getting an airline job. Never come across that concept anywhere before except for the states. :confused:

Some HR offices think it indicates a “personality type” that likes to do nice things for others without expecting a reward, which would forecast good customer service. However, once applicants discover that volunteer work does pay off (in better hiring prospects) and suddenly develop an urge to help people, the theory becomes less convincing. :rolleyes:

iahflyr
10-12-2018, 05:56 PM
What sort of pension are you giving up? Can you get that pension at 20 years? That is definitely something to consider. I’m not sure I would give up a pension if I were that close. You’ll still would have plenty of years to fly for an airline even if you waited that long.

As for leaving California, to each his own. I was born and raised in Texas, and once I got a taste of the sunshine, year round good weather, beaches 15 minutes away, the healthy lifestyle, and all the fun things to do out in California, I moved there and now would never consider leaving for anything. I also made almost as much money just owning my house in California as I did working as a major airline FO, so the extra 5k total in taxes versus most states didn’t really even hit my radar.

Every major airline has an LA base. Live anywhere else and you severely cut back your options for airlines without a commute. To give you an idea, I wouldn’t take a 50k a year raise if it meant I had to commute. Living in base is the absolute most important thing once you’re in the industry. So definitely consider that if you’re moving to another city.

mcnitchell
10-12-2018, 07:58 PM
What sort of pension are you giving up? Can you get that pension at 20 years? That is definitely something to consider. I’m not sure I would give up a pension if I were that close. .

Thanks for the response. As far as pension goes, it works like this: If I stay 10 more years (I'd be 50 years old), I could retire and collect approximately 70k a year until I die. If I punch out now, I would roll my existing pension account (currently valued at 120K) into one of my existing IRA's. Those two IRA's have averaged 10-12% annual return for several years. That 120k would be worth approx 900k by the time I turn 59 1/2 and could start drawing on it. Yes, the market can and probably will crash at some point, but you just gotta ride the wave! It always comes back.

California... I have a love/hate relationship. I used to love this place, but have grown to resent it. My wife and I purchased the home we live in for $575,000 a couple years ago. It is a very, very modest, old house. There is no way my kids, one of whom is nearly an adult, will be able to afford to live within two hours from us when she decides to move out unless she lives in an apartment in the ghetto with a roommate. We feel like we would be doing our kids a service by getting them out of California.

Commuting... We lived just outside DFW and commuted to ORD and was on reserve my entire short career while flying RJ's for $18 an hour. I wish I would have waited for that base transfer to DFW, but California's finest law enforcement agency came knocking offering me a job and a starting salary of $80k. It was hard to pass up, so I took it. I regret it every day. But, here we are over a decade later, and things seem to have improved tremendously. Am I wrong?

Sorry for the rant! I've got a lot on my mind. Cheers!!! :D;)

savedbythevnav
10-13-2018, 07:04 AM
Also keep in mind that the mandatory retirements start to ramp up around 2021/2022. Assuming 2008 doesn't happen again and/or nuclear war doesn't break out, that will change things significantly.

Upgrade is fairly short here, especially on the CRJ. Given your previous 121 time as well, you could hop into the left seat quickly. You'd take quite the QOL hit though IMO.

rickair7777
10-13-2018, 07:31 AM
Also keep in mind that the mandatory retirements start to ramp up around 2021/2022. Assuming 2008 doesn't happen again and/or nuclear war doesn't break out, that will change things significantly.

Upgrade is fairly short here, especially on the CRJ. Given your previous 121 time as well, you could hop into the left seat quickly. You'd take quite the QOL hit though IMO.

At this point nobody is probably going to furlough for a economic dip... those pilots will go to one of the bix six and never come back. It would have to be a very big downturn (or a big war involving the home territory of the US or one of our big allies... and none of the usual suspects are likely stupid enough to go there).

I can think of two airlines who are cutting HQ staff, and both have explicitly announced that will not involve flight crews. Normally an airline in that position would leave the pilots guessing, hoping to get some concessions. But today they know folks will just start updating apps and leaving ahead of even a rumored furlough.

Uptair
10-13-2018, 04:16 PM
Your experience, education, and leadership are all very attractive to the majors. Great time to pull the trigger and depending on time you may only be in the regionals for a year or two. Good luck!!

160to4
10-14-2018, 05:41 AM
Also keep in mind that the mandatory retirements start to ramp up around 2021/2022. Assuming 2008 doesn't happen again and/or nuclear war doesn't break out, that will change things significantly

Not disagreeing with you here but mandatory retirements are exactly that; mandatory. Unless the airlines decide to ground a chunk of their planes, hiring will continue regardless of what happens, albeit at a much slower rate

rickair7777
10-14-2018, 07:11 AM
Not disagreeing with you here but mandatory retirements are exactly that; mandatory. Unless the airlines decide to ground a chunk of their planes, hiring will continue regardless of what happens, albeit at a much slower rate

I somewhat expect to see the limit raised to age 67 within ten years. Reason being the oldest most senior guys at the bigs are on widebodies... and there are a limited number of sims for those. Unlike say 737 sims which are more common that quickie-marts. It would be possible for retirements to exceed sim capacity to train replacements, age 67 could help band-that to get them over the hump.

This happened at DAL when guys were bailing early (as soon as they hit the min retirement age of 55) to get their lump-sum before bankruptcy was filed. In fact paying out $1-2M to ten pilots/day is what put them over the chapter 11 brink. The solution then was the union agreed to let the company hire the retirees back as contractors to keep the planes flying until training could catch up. But that won't work if people are retiring at the max legal age.

Japan is already at 67, so there is precedent. It's probably not going higher than 67 however.

160to4
10-14-2018, 07:55 AM
I somewhat expect to see the limit raised to age 67

Very probable. Maybe limit the type of flying to regional (3 hrs max flight time or something like that). While I was about to mention there might be restrictions on areas they could and could not fly in and out of, I could see even EASA and ICAO raising the age too. The shortage is global!

On the other hand, a huge liability. I personally know of two colleagues that passed away soon after retirement; one at 67, the other at 68.

rickair7777
10-14-2018, 08:33 AM
Very probable. Maybe limit the type of flying to regional (3 hrs max flight time or something like that). While I was about to mention there might be restrictions on areas they could and could not fly in and out of, I could see even EASA and ICAO raising the age too. The shortage is global!

On the other hand, a huge liability. I personally know of two colleagues that passed away soon after retirement; one at 67, the other at 68.

That's common enough, but has more to do with retirement from a very dynamic lifestyle than age. In the old days Navy chiefs would retire around 45 and kick the can before 50.

Gotta do something to stay busy, and don't crack a bottle before 5:00.

Flying Spike
10-14-2018, 02:33 PM
That's common enough, but has more to do with retirement from a very dynamic lifestyle than age. In the old days Navy chiefs would retire around 45 and kick the can before 50.

Gotta do something to stay busy, and don't crack a bottle before 5:00.
In my last organisation (private corporate)they still have a 80 year old captain on jets. Very fit and very capable. If they can pass a sim and a medical under heightened scrutiny in two pilot operations why not let them fly?

DarkSideMoon
10-14-2018, 03:17 PM
In my last organisation (private corporate)they still have a 80 year old captain on jets. Very fit and very capable. If they can pass a sim and a medical under heightened scrutiny in two pilot operations why not let them fly?

A medical isn’t a great indicator. Look at the United pilot who died a few years back in flight. He had like 2 triple bypasses. If you have enough money and the right examiners you can get a first class.

rickair7777
10-15-2018, 09:20 AM
In my last organisation (private corporate)they still have a 80 year old captain on jets. Very fit and very capable. If they can pass a sim and a medical under heightened scrutiny in two pilot operations why not let them fly?

Medical essentially evaluates three things:
1) Are you fit to do the job?
2) Any condition that might change that in the next six months?
3) What's your risk for sudden incapacitation?


#3 is the kicker. Reality: Risk of sudden incapacitation increases with age, this is biological fact and cannot be eliminated. So at *some* point the risk gets too high for the fed to be willing to subject the traveling public to it. Where that point is, can be debated. That point varies by individual but is very hard to assess subjectively. That point has changed over time, as (on average) people live healthier lifestyles. That's why it was reasonable to raise the age to 65. IMO 67 is not really a stretch either. But at some point it becomes a stretch.

To attempt to better assess #3 on an individual basis would end up subjecting ALL of us to very invasive and expensive medical tests.

Also fatigue is an issue. Your average old (typically also very senior) airline pilot gets to do his medical and sim at a gentlemanly time of day of his choosing. That same guy might not hold up so well doing a redeye or long-haul trip with circadian flops. How do you assess that? More expensive tests?

freightpilot
01-20-2019, 04:19 AM
Thanks for the response. As far as pension goes, it works like this: If I stay 10 more years (I'd be 50 years old), I could retire and collect approximately 70k a year until I die. If I punch out now, I would roll my existing pension account (currently valued at 120K) into one of my existing IRA's. Those two IRA's have averaged 10-12% annual return for several years. That 120k would be worth approx 900k by the time I turn 59 1/2 and could start drawing on it. Yes, the market can and probably will crash at some point, but you just gotta ride the wave! It always comes back.

California... I have a love/hate relationship. I used to love this place, but have grown to resent it. My wife and I purchased the home we live in for $575,000 a couple years ago. It is a very, very modest, old house. There is no way my kids, one of whom is nearly an adult, will be able to afford to live within two hours from us when she decides to move out unless she lives in an apartment in the ghetto with a roommate. We feel like we would be doing our kids a service by getting them out of California.

Commuting... We lived just outside DFW and commuted to ORD and was on reserve my entire short career while flying RJ's for $18 an hour. I wish I would have waited for that base transfer to DFW, but California's finest law enforcement agency came knocking offering me a job and a starting salary of $80k. It was hard to pass up, so I took it. I regret it every day. But, here we are over a decade later, and things seem to have improved tremendously. Am I wrong?

Sorry for the rant! I've got a lot on my mind. Cheers!!! :D;)
I say go for it. You only live once. I’m at Fedex and can’t imagine anything else. Commuting with us is very easy and advantageous if you can hold deadheads. You can end up with more days ar home. Some of our pilots live in the cities they fly to and are home everyday. They see their kids off to school and put them to bed each day. Leave home around 8 pm and return at 6 am. Many options.

rnfnr
01-20-2019, 05:27 AM
I'm not so sure if SkyWest would be the best option for
someone who has their sights set on living [in base] in AZ,
and racking up as much flight time ASAP. Bases there tend to
be on the more senior side. You could hold it as an FO in under
a year, but it would be at least several more until you could
hold it as a captain. Not sure what you need flight time wise with your previous experience.
I saw that you said you commuted before, so as long as you wouldn't
mind doing it again, SkyWest is a good place to work, and more importantly
not a bad place to get stuck if it ends up happening.
Just food for thought here.

I say go for it man; sounds like you're not as happy as you
could be, and a change needs to be made. Wish you all
the best!

czech6
01-24-2019, 10:46 AM
I’m in exactly the same boat. Late enforcement, 40yrs old, 3 kids. I’m finishing up my hours and applying next month. Good luck to you brother!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

jpso
01-24-2019, 01:37 PM
Previously flew 91k/135, did law enforcement for a few years, now flying 121 - pm with questions if you have any.

GrumpyBear
01-24-2019, 05:47 PM
Like czech6 similar situation. Currently flying military RW as my full time gig. Wouldn’t need RTP. I have the FW time as well as the ATP written done. I have a CJO from the FAA but final check ride was cancelled due to the government shutdown. Don’t know how long the wait will be. I have three buddies at SKW telling me to make the move. Biggest issue is living in CA and having to survive making FO wages until upgrading to CA. If the FAA thing doesn’t work out, definitely dropping my app.

rickair7777
01-24-2019, 05:57 PM
Like czech6 similar situation. Currently flying military RW as my full time gig. Wouldn’t need RTP. I have the FW time as well as the ATP written done. I have a CJO from the FAA but final check ride was cancelled due to the government shutdown. Don’t know how long the wait will be. I have three buddies at SKW telling me to make the move. Biggest issue is living in CA and having to survive making FO wages until upgrading to CA. If the FAA thing doesn’t work out, definitely dropping my app.

Need to decide what you want to be when you grow up. Two guys I did TAPS with back in the day went to work for the FAA, both lasted less than a year. One got sick of the BS and quit, the other had too much initiative and work ethic, and the local FSDO clowns could not abide by that sort of precedent so they got rid of him while he was on probation and they still could. Other FSDO's and FAA offices may vary.

Right now is a serious sweet spot for airline hiring, If you get in now, you'll move up fast. And make more than at the FAA... if you're young maybe ten times more over the career. And more time off too.

CWOMaddog
01-26-2019, 03:59 PM
Former Army Aviator here, currently flying Apaches as a civilian maintenance test pilot. A recent change in my life means that I have to find a new job due to moving to a new area. A new career path is wide open to me. I'm 52 years old, and seriously considering dropping an application with SkyWest.

Any comments? I realize I don't have enough time to make left seat in a major airline, so staying with SkyWest until retirement is a consideration.

amcnd
01-26-2019, 05:19 PM
Former Army Aviator here, currently flying Apaches as a civilian maintenance test pilot. A recent change in my life means that I have to find a new job due to moving to a new area. A new career path is wide open to me. I'm 52 years old, and seriously considering dropping an application with SkyWest.

Any comments? I realize I don't have enough time to make left seat in a major airline, so staying with SkyWest until retirement is a consideration.

What base do you want? We have tons of (current and former) Apache pilots here.. yes staying for the duration can work at OO. Unless you tell me you want SLC base.. then no.

Flying Spike
01-26-2019, 06:30 PM
Former Army Aviator here, currently flying Apaches as a civilian maintenance test pilot. A recent change in my life means that I have to find a new job due to moving to a new area. A new career path is wide open to me. I'm 52 years old, and seriously considering dropping an application with SkyWest.

Any comments? I realize I don't have enough time to make left seat in a major airline, so staying with SkyWest until retirement is a consideration.

I got a start at 62 so 52 is no barrier. Go for it

CWOMaddog
01-26-2019, 07:27 PM
What base do you want? We have tons of (current and former) Apache pilots here.. yes staying for the duration can work at OO. Unless you tell me you want SLC base.. then no.

Honestly, I think Atlanta would be a good base, since I will be living near Birmingham.

CWOMaddog
02-03-2019, 05:05 PM
I got a start at 62 so 52 is no barrier. Go for it

That's good to know ;)

Cbarb185
02-07-2019, 06:16 PM
Question - What is a realistic expectation of time to go from newbie right seat FO at Skywest, or any regional, to a major airline? Do I have enough time left to make it to one?

I am a happily married dad of three kids. Currently living in LA and work full time as a Police Officer (11 years now) and part time CFI. Prior to becoming a Police Officer, I flew RJ's for American Eagle.

Wife and I want to leave this state and pursue another shot at the airlines. We know what we'd be giving up; pay, pay, me at home nightly, and more pay. I'm (wife included) tired of being a cop and living in California. I'm sure some of you will call me crazy, but it is what it is.

I have 25 years left to give to the industry. I know this hiring trend wont last forever, and a recession is inevitable. It would suck to get hired at the tail end of this wave and be stuck in the right seat at the regional level for God knows how long. That's my only concern honestly.

I'm open to any thoughts, advise, criticism, or whatever.

Thanks.

I’m looking at the same thing... 41 years old, family, 19 years in Law Enforcement. Thinking about applying to the regionals. I just got my CFII and have about 1130 total hours. Need my multi yet but hoping very soon.

bradthepilot
02-07-2019, 06:24 PM
I’m looking at the same thing... 41 years old, family, 19 years in Law Enforcement. Thinking about applying to the regionals. I just got my CFII and have about 1130 total hours. Need my multi yet but hoping very soon.

My sim partner retired from a major metro PD after 20+ years. Super cool guy, and is now happily going to-and-fro at Mach .70. It's certainly possible.

KelvinHelmholtz
02-08-2019, 01:33 PM
My sim partner retired from a major metro PD after 20+ years. Super cool guy, and is now happily going to-and-fro at Mach .70. It's certainly possible.

Mach .70.... sounds like Skywest alright

ninerdriver
02-08-2019, 01:46 PM
Mach .70.... sounds like Skywest alright

I didn't say it this time! Look, everybody! It wasn't me!

CWOMaddog
02-08-2019, 03:24 PM
This 52 year old just accepted a CJO from SkyWest :D

Excargodog
02-08-2019, 03:51 PM
This 52 year old just accepted a CJO from SkyWest :D
Congrats. Hunker down, work hard, get IOE behind you, then go have fun. You’ll have the second best corner office with view in the world. And in a few years, you’ll move left to the best one.

CWOMaddog
02-08-2019, 04:41 PM
Congrats. Hunker down, work hard, get IOE behind you, then go have fun. You’ll have the second best corner office with view in the world. And in a few years, you’ll move left to the best one.

Thanks, will do!

savedbythevnav
02-09-2019, 07:30 PM
Mach .70.... sounds like Skywest alright

You haven’t even seen our final form.

“Say Mach”
“Uhh... .64. Whatcha need?”

DBono
02-09-2019, 10:10 PM
This 52 year old just accepted a CJO from SkyWest :D

Congrats! I'm 57 and hopefully rolling in behind you. What did they say about class dates? Someone told me SkyWest was tracking to about July for current offers. Is that correct?

amcnd
02-10-2019, 03:21 AM
April/May I believe, unless you only want the ERJ...

ninerdriver
02-10-2019, 03:56 AM
You haven’t even seen our final form.

“Say Mach”
“Uhh... .64. Whatcha need?”

I think I just heard the autopilot disengage itself...

CWOMaddog
02-10-2019, 05:49 AM
Congrats! I'm 57 and hopefully rolling in behind you. What did they say about class dates? Someone told me SkyWest was tracking to about July for current offers. Is that correct?

I gave an availability date of 01 Jul, and they said I could choose between 06 Jul and 26 Jul, so I chose the latter. They may have had openings as early as late May maybe? I'm sure it depends on the airframe as well, and I'd asked for the CRJ.



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