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View Full Version : Vacation


Houpilot2001
10-13-2018, 07:57 AM
If I have vacation in Nov and want to maximize pay, and possibly pick up OT during my vacation, what's the best way to bid?

High time min days off, or low time max days off so I can swap and trade to have 2 weeks off in the middle and pick up loads of OT?

Also, is there a strategy I should look for around my vacation dates? Ie, have my time off coincide with days of already, or try to.get the most "flying" during my scheduled time off.

Also, what's the best option in to select while biding, slide or the other?

Open to ideas


wiz5422
10-13-2018, 10:31 AM
what ever you do DON'T select any option during the bid process. wait until your get your line then you have 24 hours to send an email to swaps and drops telling them what you want to do.

To max your time off bid lines that touch both sides of your vacation (first trip ends on Saturday and last trip starts on friday) that way you can DTS (drop) those 2 trips plus what ever falls inside your vacation block. now you have about 14 plus days off.

you will NOT get paid for the flying you dropped out side your vacation block, but you can request that you get paid for it our of your sick bank. That way you still get your line guarantee, and now have those days free to now pick up OT at 150%.

hope this helps.

pitchattitude
10-13-2018, 10:59 AM
what ever you do DON'T select any option during the bid process. wait until your get your line then you have 24 hours to send an email to swaps and drops telling them what you want to do.

To max your time off bid lines that touch both sides of your vacation (first trip ends on Saturday and last trip starts on friday) that way you can DTS (drop) those 2 trips plus what ever falls inside your vacation block. now you have about 14 plus days off.

you will NOT get paid for the flying you dropped out side your vacation block, but you can request that you get paid for it our of your sick bank. That way you still get your line guarantee, and now have those days free to now pick up OT at 150%.

hope this helps.
This does not get talked about enough.
Take advantage of it.


Houpilot2001
10-13-2018, 11:02 AM
This does not get talked about enough.
Take advantage of it.

So, why not pick a line that gives falls in the middle of your vacation, but still gives you 10-14 days off. That way you don't use your vacation.

LineUpAndPay
10-13-2018, 11:39 AM
So, why not pick a line that gives falls in the middle of your vacation, but still gives you 10-14 days off. That way you don't use your vacation.

You can do that if you want, but the guy above undersold the benefit of DTS. My last block was the worst DTS I've done in just under six years and still had 17 days off. Usually I can get 20/21 days off with DTS. You'd be hard pressed to find a line that you don't DTS only covers your vacation and gets more than 10 days off.

I personally care more about max time off during vacation so I always DTS. But for guys that don't care about days off and more about maximizing pay, I'd recommend (never tried this because it's not my thing) to still DTS, drop everything that you're only being paid 100% for and just pick up whole trips at 150% pay. Remember the hierarchy of picking up OT, in base full trips trumps inbase partial trips. So you can be junior as crap and still get awarded the OT over the senior guys trying to cherry pick turns off the front and back end if you pick up the whole trip and getting paid 150% for working the same days, sign me up

havick206
10-13-2018, 11:41 AM
So, why not pick a line that gives falls in the middle of your vacation, but still gives you 10-14 days off. That way you don't use your vacation.

Iím not sure you understand how VC blocks work when line bidding. You always burn the VC days either way, itís how you maximize you days off using DTS is what counts.

Houpilot2001
10-13-2018, 11:56 AM
Iím not sure you understand how VC blocks work when line bidding. You always burn the VC days either way, itís how you maximize you days off using DTS is what counts.

That's what I'm trying to understand... hence the post

havick206
10-13-2018, 12:18 PM
That's what I'm trying to understand... hence the post

The best way to maximize VC as someone else previously posted is to have your VC conflict the last day of trip at the start of VC, and the first day of a trip on your last day of VC.

They will pay you for the portion dropped that overlaps with with your VC days, but not the remainder that is dropped (if you select yes for DTS) for DTS.

You can then use your sick bank to cover the non paid hours dropped for DTS. You can then also pick up OT on top of your VC and DTS days If you wish with OT rates paid for hours flown on top of VC pay and DTS/Sick Bank hours used

Houpilot2001
10-13-2018, 12:31 PM
The best way to maximize VC as someone else previously posted is to have your VC conflict the last day of trip at the start of VC, and the first day of a trip on your last day of VC.

They will pay you for the portion dropped that overlaps with with your VC days, but not the remainder that is dropped (if you select yes for DTS) for DTS.

You can then use your sick bank to cover the non paid hours dropped for DTS. You can then also pick up OT on top of your VC and DTS days If you wish with OT rates paid for hours flown on top of VC pay and DTS/Sick Bank hours used

So if I get awarded a line like that, do I just elect DTS when bidding or have to do something more(email swaps and drops)?

havick206
10-13-2018, 12:36 PM
So if I get awarded a line like that, do I just elect DTS when bidding or have to do something more(email swaps and drops)?

Yes you can elect while bidding under the options section. Select the number for VAC drop or whatever it is and then it should change to ĎYí in the top of the screen.

As someone else mentioned you can wait to see what line you are awarded and email swaps and drops within 24Hrs and tell them you want DTS. Iíve personally not done it this way before.

As for using sick pay to cover DTS, you simply email your pay comp auditor and tell them you want to do that.

AeroEnvoy
10-13-2018, 03:07 PM
what ever you do DON'T select any option during the bid process. wait until your get your line then you have 24 hours to send an email to swaps and drops telling them what you want to do.

To max your time off bid lines that touch both sides of your vacation (first trip ends on Saturday and last trip starts on friday) that way you can DTS (drop) those 2 trips plus what ever falls inside your vacation block. now you have about 14 plus days off.

you will NOT get paid for the flying you dropped out side your vacation block, but you can request that you get paid for it our of your sick bank. That way you still get your line guarantee, and now have those days free to now pick up OT at 150%.

hope this helps.

Wait, let me get this straight. You can get paid for the trips that'd been DTSd from your sick bank? How have I never heard of this?

highfarfast
10-13-2018, 03:44 PM
Wait, let me get this straight. You can get paid for the trips that'd been DTSd from your sick bank? How have I never heard of this?

From my understanding, it used to be in the contract. But it's no longer in the contract. Pay comp auditors still seem to honor the practice. I did it for my vacation DTS. Just know that if they say 'no', they can.

Houpilot2001
10-13-2018, 03:56 PM
From my understanding, it used to be in the contract. But it's no longer in the contract. Pay comp auditors still seem to honor the practice. I did it for my vacation DTS. Just know that if they say 'no', they can.

Ok....so again, conflicting info. Any one done this recently?

highfarfast
10-13-2018, 04:23 PM
Ok....so again, conflicting info. Any one done this recently?

I did it recently. I wouldn't call what I said conflicting.

NoValueAviator
10-13-2018, 04:57 PM
It's too bad we can't edit posts after someone replies. If this is an oversight by pay comp (no error from Envoy's back office can surprise me), then it's better if it's not aired out here.

I'm sure management already knows it's going on and it's working as intended though.

Right? Lol

havick206
10-13-2018, 05:18 PM
Wait, let me get this straight. You can get paid for the trips that'd been DTSd from your sick bank? How have I never heard of this?

Iíll try to find the reference. I read it about 3 weeks ago

LineUpAndPay
10-13-2018, 06:16 PM
Ok....so again, conflicting info. Any one done this recently?

I heard about using sick to cover DTS on here a few months ago. I've DTS every vacation I've had in the 6 years here. Never once used sick, but I liked the idea. I had a pay issue in August I emailed about and at the end asked about it. She responded that yes you can use sick time to cover your DTS flying however the request needs to be in by the 5th of the month. I had vacation in September, emailed off my request and it was changed in my HI1 within a day. Easy.

As far as someone else saying they're not sure if this is a loophole and don't let management know. Would they rather we use sick time to cover DTS hours that they know about prior to the month even starting and can throw lines to composite and relief guys, or randomly bang in an hour prior to departures? Sick pay is part of the pay package, it behoves them to let us use it in a controlled manner.

highfarfast
10-13-2018, 06:24 PM
As far as someone else saying they're not sure if this is a loophole and don't let management know. Would they rather we use sick time to cover DTS hours that they know about prior to the month even starting and can throw lines to composite and relief guys, or randomly bang in an hour prior to departures? Sick pay is part of the pay package, it behoves them to let us use it in a controlled manner.

This^^

I don't think it's disappearance from the contract was some sort of management maneuvering to screw us. It makes sense for them and for us to be able to do this. Was probably an oversight from both management and union (imagine that!). And so the practice continues. Just know that you don't have any backing to force it is all I was saying.

Houpilot2001
10-15-2018, 07:28 AM
Iíll try to find the reference. I read it about 3 weeks ago

Anything? Seems like every line pilot I talk to says this isnt a thing.

DanRoman
10-15-2018, 07:35 AM
Anything? Seems like every line pilot I talk to says this isnt a thing.

Talking to the guys sitting ready reserve who have been here 6 months doesnít count. How about emailing pay comp and just asking them? Either way, itís definitely a thing.

Houpilot2001
10-15-2018, 07:50 AM
Talking to the guys sitting ready reserve who have been here 6 months doesnít count. How about emailing pay comp and just asking them? Either way, itís definitely a thing.

Yea, I'm not asking RR guys and PC has been emailed.

PIPErdrvr
10-18-2018, 06:41 PM
Can you select slide and dts at the same time? What will happen if you do this and have two trips partially touching the front and back of your VC block?

wiz5422
10-18-2018, 09:33 PM
Can you select slide and dts at the same time? What will happen if you do this and have two trips partially touching the front and back of your VC block?

They will slide your vacation forward or backwards to eliminate the bigger conflict...(most days you could DTS). then you would only be able DTS one or none since they ALWAYS slide first.

Houpilot2001
10-20-2018, 05:22 PM
Yea, I'm not asking RR guys and PC has been emailed.

Fyi...dts can be covered by sick bank. Straight from the horses mouth.

GoFast8
10-21-2018, 12:11 PM
How does a new hire still in training go about bidding for vacation?

wiz5422
10-21-2018, 01:06 PM
How does a new hire still in training go about bidding for vacation?

ha ha ha ha...you haven't earned any vacation yet. welcome to envoy.

NoValueAviator
10-21-2018, 01:13 PM
How does a new hire still in training go about bidding for vacation?

Vacation accrual year one is ZERO. Welcome!

Pedro4President
10-21-2018, 01:22 PM
How does a new hire still in training go about bidding for vacation?

These guys don't know what they are talking about. You bid it the same way everyone else bids for it. My envoy > flight> flight bid > vacation bidding 101.

You may only have a couple days of vacation but you get it. .58 days per month.

pitchattitude
10-21-2018, 01:47 PM
These guys don't know what they are talking about. You bid it the same way everyone else bids for it. My envoy > flight> flight bid > vacation bidding 101.

You may only have a couple days of vacation but you get it. .58 days per month.
It accrues in one calendar year and is taken the next, meaning if you got hired September 1, you will accrue 4 months worth through December or 4 x .58 = 2.32. Donít remember how partial months work out and how they round but you will have between 2-4 days next year depending on your hire date.

Pedro4President
10-21-2018, 02:39 PM
It accrues in one calendar year and is taken the next, meaning if you got hired September 1, you will accrue 4 months worth through December or 4 x .58 = 2.32. Donít remember how partial months work out and how they round but you will have between 2-4 days next year depending on your hire date.

Partial months only count if you were hired before the 15th. After the months x .58 they round to the nearest whole number.

All new pilots hired in 2018 will be awarded at least 1 vacation day in 2019.

All of this is explained in the vacation bidding 101 document the company posted.

EnyFlyr
10-21-2018, 03:14 PM
As a cadet I had about week by the time I joined as an FO I also had a crap ton of sick time I was afraid to use due to bein on probation

Pedro4President
10-21-2018, 03:26 PM
As a cadet I had about week by the time I joined as an FO I also had a crap ton of sick time I was afraid to use due to bein on probation

That's on perk of being a cadet

havick206
10-21-2018, 04:05 PM
With DTS you can turn that one day into a week or more off. So still bid for when you think you want the time off next year and you may jag a line to create a conflict to maximize the time off even with just one day of vacation.

dragongoliath
10-21-2018, 05:23 PM
So lets say I got a line that has from the 1st to the 7th off and I have vacation during that period ( on my off days). Do i get paid something extra?

MD-11Loader
10-21-2018, 05:55 PM
So lets say I got a line that has from the 1st to the 7th off and I have vacation during that period ( on my off days). Do i get paid something extra?

Yes, you get paid the satisfaction of knowing that next time you will bid something that will get you a DTS and end up with half the month off.

highfarfast
10-21-2018, 06:23 PM
Yes, you get paid the satisfaction of knowing that next time you will bid something that will get you a DTS and end up with half the month off.

While I agree with your point, in answering his question, there is pay for vacation. Contract covers this scenario pretty clearly. It's been several months since my vacation so I haven't read it in a while to be sure of the details and will just say, read the contract.

MD-11Loader
10-21-2018, 07:59 PM
While I agree with your point, in answering his question, there is pay for vacation. Contract covers this scenario pretty clearly. It's been several months since my vacation so I haven't read it in a while to be sure of the details and will just say, read the contract.

Fine, I will be nice and say that his contract provides the answer in 8.B. Getting creative next year with bidding around your vacation will allow you to maximize time off.

GoFast8
10-22-2018, 04:37 AM
Vacation accrual year one is ZERO. Welcome!

I was a cadet. Ive got 80 hrs of vacation.

GoFast8
10-22-2018, 04:38 AM
These guys don't know what they are talking about. You bid it the same way everyone else bids for it. My envoy > flight> flight bid > vacation bidding 101.

You may only have a couple days of vacation but you get it. .58 days per month.
Thank you!

Pedro4President
10-22-2018, 04:48 AM
I was a cadet. Ive got 80 hrs of vacation.

Well we don't do "hours" anymore and since we can't "roll" vacation to the next year until after four years. I'm not sure how you got more than three weeks of vacation. You did say you were a cadet so there could be extenuating circumstances involved. I honestly don't know and I am certainly not contradicting what you have for vacation. I'm curious how do you know you have 80 hours of vacation and when did you start the cadet program and when did you start Indoc.

GoFast8
10-22-2018, 06:27 AM
Well we don't do "hours" anymore and since we can't "roll" vacation to the next year until after four years. I'm not sure how you got more than three weeks of vacation. You did say you were a cadet so there could be extenuating circumstances involved. I honestly don't know and I am certainly not contradicting what you have for vacation. I'm curious how do you know you have 80 hours of vacation and when did you start the cadet program and when did you start Indoc.

Epays-->vacation balance. Tells you there. Mine have been rolling for a couple years.

NoValueAviator
10-22-2018, 07:36 AM
I was a cadet. Ive got 80 hrs of vacation.

Perhaps ďaccrualĒ was not the right word, but there is certainly no vacation year one at Envoy.

moon
10-22-2018, 08:06 AM
Perhaps ďaccrualĒ was not the right word, but there is certainly no vacation year one at Envoy.

No vacation in first calendar year, but if you get hired in say August, you can have vacation as soon as January.

E190 Driver
10-22-2018, 09:25 AM
So lets say I got a line that has from the 1st to the 7th off and I have vacation during that period ( on my off days). Do i get paid something extra?

Is this a serious question?

E190 Driver
10-22-2018, 09:35 AM
I was a cadet. Ive got 80 hrs of vacation.

If you've got 3ish weeks of vacation as a cadet I'm for sure filing a grievance. No way in He double hockey sticks should you have more vaca than someone who got screwed by the bankruptcy deal

ParkingatMIA
10-22-2018, 11:30 AM
For those of us that have been here 2 years and some months. Do we get prorated vacation days to use before the end of the year?

Pedro4President
10-23-2018, 04:44 AM
Epays-->vacation balance. Tells you there. Mine have been rolling for a couple years.

Yeah I don't think you get to use those hours. Your accrual rate will be determined by date of hire as a cadet but your vacation accrual doesn't start until indoc. I am wonder if you could of used those hours a flight instructor before you started indoc.

In a couple weeks they will post something that tells you how many weeks you will have to bid. For those that can roll over then they will also give the total in the bank. I expect it out first or second week of November.

GoFast8
10-23-2018, 07:28 AM
Yeah I don't think you get to use those hours. Your accrual rate will be determined by date of hire as a cadet but your vacation accrual doesn't start until indoc. I am wonder if you could of used those hours a flight instructor before you started indoc.

In a couple weeks they will post something that tells you how many weeks you will have to bid. For those that can roll over then they will also give the total in the bank. I expect it out first or second week of November.

Yeah that may be true. I was able to use sick time as a cadet. Never used the vacation. Just was curious how to go about bidding for vacation, no matter the amount of accural you have.

MD-11Loader
10-23-2018, 07:51 AM
Yeah that may be true. I was able to use sick time as a cadet. Never used the vacation. Just was curious how to go about bidding for vacation, no matter the amount of accural you have.

If only there was a section on my.envoyair that specifically outlined it.

https://my.envoyair.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/DOC_CRS_General-Annual-VC-Bidding-101-with-New-accruals.pdf

Pedro4President
10-23-2018, 02:00 PM
If only there was a section on my.envoyair that specifically outlined it.

https://my.envoyair.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/DOC_CRS_General-Annual-VC-Bidding-101-with-New-accruals.pdf


Lol. Come on I didn't even know that was there until a week ago.



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