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View Full Version : Flying Cargo on the DC-9


lockhar1
10-13-2018, 02:41 PM
Hello, all. First time poster. I'm currently a university student working toward my ratings and have a somewhat weird career hope compared to my fellow students. I'm hoping to fly the DC-9 for at least a couple years, and there are four carriers in the United States that currently fly them: USA Jet, Ameristar, Kalitta Charters II, and Everts Air Cargo. I'm looking for information for each of them. Currently, all are marked on ALPC as hiring, although a couple pages haven't been updated in a few years. What are the working conditions like at these airlines? Are they R-ATP friendly? Do they put pilots through type training, or do I have to have the DC-9 type rating beforehand?

Thanks for the replies,
Kyle


HVYMETALDRVR
10-13-2018, 03:01 PM
My opinions aside, do you have a lot of round dial experience?

I flew the -80, but never the 9, no real interest. But prior to the -80 I had a fair amount of experience in GA aircraft flying round dials, though directly before the -80 I flew RJs for a few years. It can be a tough transition as the scan is quite a bit different. I'm not sure about required flight times though I know the washout rate on a DC-9/MD80 is generally higher than most RJs I'd make sure you are ready to make the jump.
Don't worry about buying a type, your employer will pay for it.

I haven't flown for any of those airlines, but the cargo life can be tougher with all the red-eye flying. I know Everts had/has more of a two week on two week off type schedule and you are home based. They should airline you too the airplane and Evert does most of their flying out of Texas and Alaska. USA jet and Kalitta Charters I think you have to live in YIP and be close to the airfield with a short call out I think? But that may have changed with increased demand. There are some threads on here with guys discussing working at those places.

As for the pay? No it's not very good relative to the equipment. On demand charter and ACMI never really pay great though compared the mainline carriers but of course it's not as hard to get hired by them either. Honestly you'll probably make more money and get more time off at Envoy or Endeavour. Especially considering all the bonuses and tuition reimbursement the regionals are paying now. On top of that you'll have a quick upgrade and a flow for interview at a mainline carrier. Okay did give you a little bit of my opinion there. :)

Good luck.

lockhar1
10-13-2018, 03:07 PM
I started my flight training in a round dial Cessna 172 and have a scan developed. However, my university's training fleet consists of all-glass airplanes with the exception of the complex and multi-engine trainers, which I'll be flying in the next couple of years.

I know about the benefits packages on the regional side since they make frequent stops at my college, but the DC-9 still remains a huge dream of mine. Everts, from what I know about them, would seem like a good place to be since I can deadhead to Laredo. Starting out, I wouldn't expect Pan Am-747-level pay, so I'm not that worried about pay as long as it isn't lower than $40k/yr.


navigatro
10-13-2018, 03:41 PM
Normally we hear about pilots with SJS (shiny jet syndrome.)

This is the first case of ODJS I have heard of (Old Douglasaurus Jet Syndrome)

Name User
10-13-2018, 03:42 PM
I went from the Airbus to the MD82/83. It wasn't an issue.

captjns
10-13-2018, 04:03 PM
Hello, all. First time poster. I'm currently a university student working toward my ratings and have a somewhat weird career hope compared to my fellow students. I'm hoping to fly the DC-9 for at least a couple years, and there are four carriers in the United States that currently fly them: USA Jet, Ameristar, Kalitta Charters II, and Everts Air Cargo. I'm looking for information for each of them. Currently, all are marked on ALPC as hiring, although a couple pages haven't been updated in a few years. What are the working conditions like at these airlines? Are they R-ATP friendly? Do they put pilots through type training, or do I have to have the DC-9 type rating beforehand?

Thanks for the replies,
Kyle

Look into Everts Air Cargo. They’re looking for DC-9 F/O’s to be based in KANC, and MD-80 F/O’s for the lower 48. Great place to work. They have a new D/O who is pilot friendly. The owner of the company, Rob Everts is friendly and approachable. He flies the line too. Great guy. You’ll complete ground training in Fairbanks AK, then sim training in the Lower 48 either in Dallas, or Atlanta. Full pay from day one... give them a call. You’ll have the opportunity to ride along on a DC-6 and C-46 too! The Chief Pilot, who conducts line training, is a super guy too.

atpcliff
10-13-2018, 04:17 PM
I think K Charters II only hire captains who are rated...at least that was how it was before...

USA Jet and Ameristar are similar operations, but in different locations. At USAJet you can start as FO, get training, and work your way up to Capt. You can start as a -135 FO on the Falcon 20, if you don't want to wait for your ATP.

I think Everets is probably the best, overall, for most pilots.

Also, K Charters II: you normally can't move from there to Kalitta Air, if that is a consideration.

lockhar1
10-13-2018, 05:03 PM
Of the things I've seen on here about the airlines, Everts seems like the best option. I'm definitely keeping them on my list.

4runner
10-13-2018, 08:20 PM
Any training “academy” that doesn’t have round dials, then tells prospective “candidates” that everything is all glass should be taken with suspicion. Helicopter pilots make good airplane pilots but not vice versa. Round dial pilots make gooder glass pilots, but not vice versa. Any CP of a flight school that doesn’t want to go to the airlines, move to bigger equipment or is telling you how the airlines are, is full of something or has skeletons. I went from an all glass fleet and fms to furloughed and overseas in round gauges before I was 30. I think it’s solid that you want to fly a Douglas and can attest firsthand that a dc-9 is a beast and stops all conversation from start up to Vr.

4runner
10-13-2018, 08:32 PM
Also, don’t ever pay for your own ratings. If someone can afford to operate an aircraft, they can pay to train you to fly it. If they can’t afford training, they can’t afford to pay you and they can’t afford to operate an aircraft. We’ll end up like euroland if you take it upon yourself to pay for your own type. Speaking of which, if you’re the SouthWest pilot who owned regional airline training academy in deland, kiss our collective asses. The JS from Vegas to Orlando on a 320 in 2009 was the most painful and ackwsrd experience ever. If you are the former “admissions” officer for said school, how do puppies and kittens taste?

JohnBurke
10-13-2018, 08:38 PM
Any CP of a flight school that doesn’t want to go to the airlines, move to bigger equipment or is telling you how the airlines are, is full of something or has skeletons.

That's more than a bit presumptuous.

It's perfectly fine to be content where you are, with the equipment you fly, and even to move to that position from another that some might desire. Not everyone sets an airline as their goal, or a particular piece of equipment, or is infected by shiny jet syndrome.

A Squared
10-14-2018, 12:01 AM
Look into Everts Air Cargo. They’re looking for DC-9 F/O’s to be based in KANC,


Where is KANC????? Never heard of it.

illinipilot
10-14-2018, 02:10 AM
Where is KANC????? Never heard of it.

Yep. Although it does sound warmer :)

TiredSoul
10-14-2018, 05:20 AM
Round dial pilots make gooder glass pilots

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_60-28A.pdf

A Squared
10-14-2018, 09:49 AM
Yep. Although it does sound warmer :)


Actually, it's pretty warm here right now, for the season. I've still got my plane on floats and in the water, which most years would be courting disaster halfway through October. Was talking yesterday to my folks in Oregon, and it's a lot colder there, farm ponds are starting to freeze up, etc. I've yet to see ice on a puddle here.

tengssuuciurta
10-14-2018, 10:26 AM
Actually, it's pretty warm here right now, for the season. I've still got my plane on floats and in the water, which most years would be courting disaster halfway through October. Was talking yesterday to my folks in Oregon, and it's a lot colder there, farm ponds are starting to freeze up, etc. I've yet to see ice on a puddle here.
I don't like El Niño :(

captjns
10-14-2018, 11:53 AM
Where is KANC????? Never heard of it.

Oops... senior moment... PANC... Anchorage. Again, Everts is definitely heading in the right direction with the new DO at the helm. Great C/P too.

FmrPropCapt
10-14-2018, 01:50 PM
I have several friends who are Capts at USA Jet and they love it. Easily over 100k first year capt pay and judging by the updated their apc profile they have a min of 14 off per month. My buddies all say the days off are in large blocks and they all commute to yip via Detroit.

lockhar1
10-14-2018, 01:58 PM
I have several friends who are Capts at USA Jet and they love it. Easily over 100k first year capt pay and judging by the updated their apc profile they have a min of 14 off per month. My buddies all say the days off are in large blocks and they all commute to yip via Detroit.
If it's not too much trouble, could you please ask them to PM me on APC? I'd love to have contacts at USA Jet.

badflaps
10-14-2018, 02:00 PM
I flew the "9" for three years, I thought it was magic. But, then again, I was coming off the "7".:eek:

lockhar1
10-14-2018, 02:02 PM
I flew the "9" for three years, I thought it was magic. But, then again, I was coming off the "7".:eek:
What was your favorite part about flying the DC-9? I think I have an idea of what it'll be like (busy), but I know each type has their quirks.

nitefr8dog
10-14-2018, 02:11 PM
I flew the "9" for three years, I thought it was magic. But, then again, I was coming off the "7".:eek:
I flew the "9" thirteen yrs 9 as a ck airman....it is magic! 1 to 1 profile ..10k agl 10 mi and you had to add power. No bells or computer voices. Came out of the air like a bag of hammers. (Hope that's ok to say River)

lockhar1
10-14-2018, 02:13 PM
That's something I like about them. You don't have to worry so much about whether you'll make restrictions on SIDs and STARs. The -10's a rocket from what I've seen, but I'm not so sure about the -30.

nitefr8dog
10-14-2018, 02:16 PM
That's something I like about them. You don't have to worry so much about whether you'll make restrictions on SIDs and STARs. The -10's a rocket from what I've seen, but I'm not so sure about the -30.
Flew 10's, 30's and 40's...the 30 series was the best. 10 series alot of work in icing with any deferred items and the hard wing. And of course out of 75 DC9's we only had 2 10 series and they went to FAR and APE yr round.

lockhar1
10-14-2018, 02:18 PM
Flew 10's, 30's and 40's...the 30 series was the best. 10 series alot of work in icing with any deferred items and the hard wing.
I'm unfamiliar with the term; what's a hard wing?

nitefr8dog
10-14-2018, 02:18 PM
I'm unfamiliar with the term; what's a hard wing?
No slats.....

lockhar1
10-14-2018, 02:22 PM
No slats.....
Ah. I got it now. Thanks! I think Kalitta still has a couple -30Fs. We had one stop at the airport for fuel a couple weeks ago and I could hear that JT8 scream across the airport.

nitefr8dog
10-14-2018, 02:58 PM
Ah. I got it now. Thanks! I think Kalitta still has a couple -30Fs. We had one stop at the airport for fuel a couple weeks ago and I could hear that JT8 scream across the airport.
Great motor 7K hrs....sucked in 3 birds...still kept running! We had 8-10 33Fs with -11's that was a good combination.

4runner
10-14-2018, 03:31 PM
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_60-28A.pdf

What? Filler

lockhar1
10-14-2018, 04:33 PM
Great motor 7K hrs....sucked in 3 birds...still kept running! We had 8-10 33Fs with -11's that was a good combination.
I bet. Which airline was this, and do they still have DC-9s?

nitefr8dog
10-14-2018, 04:52 PM
I bet. Which airline was this, and do they still have DC-9s?
Airborne Express.... no more DC9's ...started changing to 767s in 1998. DHL bought our 9's when they downsized us. Last revenue flight was in 2008 or so. Great airplane.

nitefr8dog
10-14-2018, 05:02 PM
What was your favorite part about flying the DC-9? I think I have an idea of what it'll be like (busy), but I know each type has their quirks.
You could do anything with the airplane...we were the only airline certified to "hand fly" a Cat II single engine approach. Which at the time after your type in the sim you got to go demonstrate in a 10 series aircraft to finish the type no mater what the wind or wx was. After that anything was easy. Fell out of the sky, hand flying all approaches to minimums was a breeze...

Packrat
10-14-2018, 05:39 PM
Airborne Express.... no more DC9's ...started changing to 767s in 1998. DHL bought our 9's when they downsized us. Last revenue flight was in 2008 or so. Great airplane.

We have 4 ABX 9s. One is in the boneyard for parts. Gone, but not forgotten.

Larry in TN
10-14-2018, 06:54 PM
Last revenue flight was in 2008 or so.
January 2009. I think it was the 11th? My last flight was the night of the 9th.

tomgoodman
10-14-2018, 09:10 PM
The DC-9 never told a pilot: “I have your request, but for your own good I will instead comply with what you would have requested had you been as smart as the nerds that programmed me.” :p

TiredSoul
10-14-2018, 09:48 PM
What? Filler

I was being facetious as the grammar and spelling was horrendous.

badflaps
10-14-2018, 10:50 PM
What was your favorite part about flying the DC-9? I think I have an idea of what it'll be like (busy), but I know each type has their quirks.

I think starting descent, when the overhead eyeballs dump water down your neck. Very refreshing on a hot day. Or trying to control the "lollypop" on rotation.:D

nitefr8dog
10-15-2018, 07:18 AM
January 2009. I think it was the 11th? My last flight was the night of the 9th.

Was a guess...I went to the 76 Aug 07. Didn't really keep up with it....

Larry in TN
10-15-2018, 08:49 AM
"DC Transfer Bus"

"Electrically controlled, pneumatically operated"

"90 second on, 90 seconds off (or the west coast, whichever comes first)"

4runner
10-15-2018, 11:51 AM
I was being facetious as the grammar and spelling was horrendous.

It’s “were” horrendous. Painfully obvious too. Almost like I did it on purpose. Sarcastically even. You weren’t one of the cool kids, were you? Thanks for the advisory circular.

nitefr8dog
10-15-2018, 01:51 PM
The DC-9 never told a pilot: “I have your request, but for your own good I will instead comply with what you would have requested had you been as smart as the nerds that programmed me.” :p
And the programming required making sure the 2 Vor's and 1 ADF were turned on!

captjns
10-15-2018, 04:19 PM
And the programming required making sure the 2 Vor's and 1 ADF were turned on!

What are you guys complaining about... This is all we needed in our trusty B737-100s had:D

sky jet
10-15-2018, 04:31 PM
What are you guys complaining about... This is all we needed in our trusty B737-100s had:D

I know you jest, but at some point in time pilots got in the airplane and thought that thing was practically witchcraft.

badflaps
10-15-2018, 04:49 PM
What are you guys complaining about... This is all we needed in our trusty B737-100s had:D
I weep at the sight.:(

captjns
10-15-2018, 04:54 PM
I know you jest, but at some point in time pilots got in the airplane and thought that thing was practically witchcraft.

That was the rage of NAV COMs when I first put the ignition in the old straight tailed C-150 in 1969.

Then I thought I was in the 20th century with the Narco Mark 12a.

captjns
10-15-2018, 05:17 PM
Then we really thought we were light years ahead of the airlines when we were introduced to R-NAV... flying a PA-31 in the ‘70s.

nitefr8dog
10-15-2018, 06:09 PM
What are you guys complaining about... This is all we needed in our trusty B737-100s had:D
Not complaining....just saying. I remember flying to ANC in the 9 thinking my C150 had more avionics...

tomgoodman
10-15-2018, 06:35 PM
Not complaining....just saying. I remember flying to ANC in the 9 thinking my C150 had more avionics...

You had avionics? Bah! We only had a cat and a duck. :D

Turbosina
10-15-2018, 08:17 PM
Then we really thought we were light years ahead of the airlines when we were introduced to R-NAV... flying a PA-31 in the ‘70s.

The first time I flew an airplane equipped with DME I thought I had entered a time warp into the distant future...

captjns
10-15-2018, 09:54 PM
The first time I flew an airplane equipped with DME I thought I had entered a time warp into the distant future...

Look familiar... I remember using the technological wonder in a Piper Apache way back when.

Twin Wasp
10-16-2018, 06:54 AM
The flip up mirror on the top of the glareshield.

JohnBurke
10-16-2018, 07:12 AM
You had avionics? Bah! We only had a cat and a duck. :D

And a dog, a brick, and a set of car keys.



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