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View Full Version : Conspiracy theories...


Excargodog
10-18-2018, 07:16 AM
What if HK already has a Delta contract extension in his pocket and is sitting on it until after the current two year TA is renewed/extended in an attempt to keep the ask down?


DiamondDriver
10-18-2018, 07:47 AM
If Delta likes to save money, which I would think they do. Then Iíve never totally seen the benefit of dropping CPZ to send it to Endeavor. That is millions of dollars in just parts buildup, training, adding staffing for west coast bases, etc, not to mention...the higher cost of pilots due to the wage difference.

Sending these planes to Skywest or wherever will still involve millions in training and now higher pilot wages.

Compass flies the oldest 175s and assuming the Skywest pay increase goes through. Will be the lowest paid operator flying for Delta.

No regional has the pilots on hand to staff all the CPZ planes.

I think itís staying. Everyone thinks itís going.

Dalda Erlines
10-18-2018, 07:59 AM
If Delta likes to save money, which I would think they do. Then Iíve never totally seen the benefit of dropping CPZ to send it to Endeavor. That is millions of dollars in just parts buildup, training, adding staffing for west coast bases, etc, not to mention...the higher cost of pilots due to the wage difference.


Sending these planes to Skywest or wherever will still involve millions in training and now higher pilot wages.

Compass flies the oldest 175s and assuming the Skywest pay increase goes through. Will be the lowest paid operator flying for Delta.

No regional has the pilots on hand to staff all the CPZ planes.

I think itís staying. Everyone thinks itís going.


I completely agree.


jungle driver
10-18-2018, 08:02 AM
What if HK already has a Delta contract extension in his pocket and is sitting on it until after the current two year TA is renewed/extended in an attempt to keep the ask down?

I know Compass is a private company and we can't look at any of their records or financial info but Delta is public so shouldn't we be able to see it from their end? shouldn't we be able to find the contract start/end dates and what Delta is paying for the capacity they bought from us? I'll be the first to admit I don't know anything about this kind of thing but just throwing it out there for someone smarter than me.

JetDoc
10-18-2018, 08:04 AM
If Delta likes to save money, which I would think they do. Then Iíve never totally seen the benefit of dropping CPZ to send it to Endeavor. That is millions of dollars in just parts buildup, training, adding staffing for west coast bases, etc, not to mention...the higher cost of pilots due to the wage difference.

Sending these planes to Skywest or wherever will still involve millions in training and now higher pilot wages.

Compass flies the oldest 175s and assuming the Skywest pay increase goes through. Will be the lowest paid operator flying for Delta.

No regional has the pilots on hand to staff all the CPZ planes.

I think itís staying. Everyone thinks itís going.



No, no, no, no! Do not try to bring logic and sound reasoning into a internet discussion. Unacceptable! :D

poorflyer
10-18-2018, 08:55 AM
Couldn't something be said about savings down the line though? Surely the plan for the mid-late '20s (isn't it weird saying it like that) is to consolidate regionals since surely pay will keep going up in relation to pilot retirements. So does it make financial sense to take a hit now and switch the fleet to a new carrier where Delta employees will have direct access and control of the regional, and then down the line save cost? Just playing devils advocate.

poutine
10-18-2018, 10:04 AM
when multiple contractors out there all fighting for the lowest bid, why Delta want to consolidate?

gojo
10-18-2018, 11:24 AM
If Delta likes to save money, which I would think they do. Then Iíve never totally seen the benefit of dropping CPZ to send it to Endeavor. That is millions of dollars in just parts buildup, training, adding staffing for west coast bases, etc, not to mention...the higher cost of pilots due to the wage difference.

Sending these planes to Skywest or wherever will still involve millions in training and now higher pilot wages.

Compass flies the oldest 175s and assuming the Skywest pay increase goes through. Will be the lowest paid operator flying for Delta.

No regional has the pilots on hand to staff all the CPZ planes.

I think itís staying. Everyone thinks itís going.

Honest question, who owns the parts inventory now on the Delta leased birds?

LostInPA
10-18-2018, 11:40 AM
Honest question, who owns the parts inventory now on the Delta leased birds?

https://www.aviationpros.com/press_release/12064591/embraer-and-compass-airlines-extend-pool-program-for-new-e-jets-operated-for-american-airlines

First paragraph, both DL/AA planes included in the Embraer parts pool system.

N914FJ
10-18-2018, 05:28 PM
Honest question, who owns the parts inventory now on the Delta leased birds?

Parts are pooled in MEM. Thatís why it takes nearly a day* to get parts when we go AOG. (* day and a half if youíre unlucky to break down in Canada)

NeverFlexTO
10-18-2018, 05:45 PM
If Delta likes to save money, which I would think they do. Then Iíve never totally seen the benefit of dropping CPZ to send it to Endeavor. That is millions of dollars in just parts buildup, training, adding staffing for west coast bases, etc, not to mention...the higher cost of pilots due to the wage difference.

Sending these planes to Skywest or wherever will still involve millions in training and now higher pilot wages.

Compass flies the oldest 175s and assuming the Skywest pay increase goes through. Will be the lowest paid operator flying for Delta.

No regional has the pilots on hand to staff all the CPZ planes.

I think itís staying. Everyone thinks itís going.

Or convert the brand new Skywest 175SCís and the brand new EDV 900ís that have 70 seats to 76 seats, and get rid of your oldest airplanes with high mx reliability...just gotta look at it from all possibilities...but I agree I think itíll be extended

Dalda Erlines
10-18-2018, 06:54 PM
Or convert the brand new Skywest 175SCís and the brand new EDV 900ís that have 70 seats to 76 seats, and get rid of your oldest airplanes with high mx reliability...just gotta look at it from all possibilities...but I agree I think itíll be extended

Those ďoldĒ planes have a lot of life left in them. CPZ mx on the other hand is a different story. Also, those 175s have a higher gross weight than the 175SCs. Canít get a new 175 with the same gross weight increase those old DL 175s were approved for.

BobbyLeeSwagger
10-18-2018, 08:00 PM
My conspiracy theory is that the Seattle crew room and halls leading up to it are haunted with the spirits of old gold rush pan handlers and prospectors (circa 1890).. Management is renting the space for nothing since nobody else wanted it.. They are hoping it will keep commuting FAs from sleeping there overnight. You didn't hear this from me...

VIRotate
10-18-2018, 09:10 PM
All this talk about ďoldĒ planes. They are from what 2007? There are airlines flying planes from the 70s and 80s just fine. It would be a huge hit to the ROI if Delta started parking ďolderĒ 175s so early.

TeamSasquatch
10-18-2018, 09:16 PM
All this talk about ďoldĒ planes. They are from what 2007? There are airlines flying planes from the 70s and 80s just fine. It would be a huge hit to the ROI if Delta started parking ďolderĒ 175s so early.


I makes me laugh too. Itís only old if they stopped making it before your birth year....

JetDoc
10-18-2018, 11:16 PM
All this talk about “old” planes. They are from what 2007? There are airlines flying planes from the 70s and 80s just fine. It would be a huge hit to the ROI if Delta started parking “older” 175s so early.

United's first 777's first went into service in 1994. 24 years and still going strong. Hell, some of their 75's are pushing 30. It's not the age of the plane but the quality of the maintenance. Sadly our guys are overworked, underpaid and quite literally, not given the tools they need to do the job.

GuardPolice
10-19-2018, 12:07 AM
United's first 777's first went into service in 1994. 24 years and still going strong. Hell, some of their 75's are pushing 30. It's not the age of the plane but the quality of the maintenance. Sadly our guys are overworked, underpaid and quite literally, not given the tools they need to do the job.


First delivery was May of 1995 and their inaugural commercial flight was June, but that doesnít change your point.

zondaracer
10-19-2018, 12:07 AM
United's first 777's first went into service in 1994. 24 years and still going strong. Hell, some of their 75's are pushing 30. It's not the age of the plane but the quality of the maintenance. Sadly our guys are overworked, underpaid and quite literally, not given the tools they need to do the job.

Itís also number of cycles. Those long haul planes do many less cycles in the same time period due to the nature of the flying.

VIRotate
10-19-2018, 01:20 AM
Itís also number of cycles. Those long haul planes do many less cycles in the same time period due to the nature of the flying.

Yeah that is true but still look at DL's MDs. Same type of flying we do. Heck even some of their 75s doing ATL-JAX/MCO all day. I know their maintenance is obviously better but I still wouldn't call our planes old regardless. It's even sillier that parking older ones was even brought up.

TransWorld
10-19-2018, 05:24 AM
Yeah that is true but still look at DL's MDs. Same type of flying we do. Heck even some of their 75s doing ATL-JAX/MCO all day. I know their maintenance is obviously better but I still wouldn't call our planes old regardless. It's even sillier that parking older ones was even brought up.

The oldest Delta MD in service is 1987.

Dalda Erlines
10-19-2018, 07:12 AM
I makes me laugh too. Itís only old if they stopped making it before your birth year....

Thereís a lot of airplanes flying around that are way older than most of the CPZ pilot group 😂.

N914FJ
10-19-2018, 09:14 AM
Maybe our planes would last longer if people werenít planting them on the runway like they are landing on an aircraft carrier 😂

Taco280AI
10-19-2018, 09:42 AM
What is the issue? It isn't hard to land, it's actually quite easy. Forget sight picture if you're not sure what to look for, forget everything... just listen to the countdown.

FlytheSky
10-19-2018, 11:33 AM
I makes me laugh too. Itís only old if they stopped making it before your birth year....

I thought classes at Compass were full. Didn't know they were so desperate to be hiring guys born in 2007 and later who would view the Delta 175s as "old" though... :D

Seriously, there's airplanes at Delta flying around without GPS. I think they would retire those before they retire the Compass 175s...

FlytheSky
10-19-2018, 11:34 AM
Maybe our planes would last longer if people werenít planting them on the runway like they are landing on an aircraft carrier 😂

But how else are you supposed to catch the third wire? :D

VIRotate
10-19-2018, 12:29 PM
The oldest Delta MD in service is 1987.

Yes exactly. Quite a bit older than the 175s.

Aviator147
10-19-2018, 03:45 PM
Yes exactly. Quite a bit older than the 175s.

Its nuts to me how the MD88s at Delta are flying around in better shape than CP 175s. The 175 is a great airplane, however since its newer tech and mostly electric, the MX upkeep is like on a BMW and CPZ hasn't been doing it well. Not at the fault of the mechanics but mngmt. The 88s at Delta are surprisingly in good shape minus cockpit trim falling off everywhere and awful flight deck seats.

tomgoodman
10-19-2018, 03:52 PM
The 88s at Delta are surprisingly in good shape minus cockpit trim falling off everywhere and awful flight deck seats.

They were that way when we took delivery, 30 years ago. :D

DeltaCorrectons
10-19-2018, 05:45 PM
I think itís pretty telling that Delta doesnít have a clue what to do with itís regional fleet plan. EDV has been told for the last couple months to expect a 2019 fleet plan soon and we still arenít expecting one any time soon but being in RGT recently getting to hear management spread all the rumors running around C tower this is the first time they didnít promote any rumors or just outright shot down something that someone heard on the line. The silence has me thinking that one of the Delta regionals is dead in the water and they have legal reasons that they are keeping everything so close. My guess CPZ gets cut as well as GoJet. EDV MX has people that were sent to training on the ERJ in June.

VIRotate
10-19-2018, 07:09 PM
I think itís pretty telling that Delta doesnít have a clue what to do with itís regional fleet plan. EDV has been told for the last couple months to expect a 2019 fleet plan soon and we still arenít expecting one any time soon but being in RGT recently getting to hear management spread all the rumors running around C tower this is the first time they didnít promote any rumors or just outright shot down something that someone heard on the line. The silence has me thinking that one of the Delta regionals is dead in the water and they have legal reasons that they are keeping everything so close. My guess CPZ gets cut as well as GoJet. EDV MX has people that were sent to training on the ERJ in June.

Iím guessing youíre hearing radio silence because there is just nothing to talk about. Our Delta contract expires in 2020 so negotiations probably wonít start until sometime next year.

But about the BMW analogy in regards to the 175, pretty spot on. The question is how are other airlines like OO and Combrick handling it?

poutine
10-20-2018, 10:52 AM
I think itís pretty telling that Delta doesnít have a clue what to do with itís regional fleet plan. EDV has been told for the last couple months to expect a 2019 fleet plan soon and we still arenít expecting one any time soon but being in RGT recently getting to hear management spread all the rumors running around C tower this is the first time they didnít promote any rumors or just outright shot down something that someone heard on the line. The silence has me thinking that one of the Delta regionals is dead in the water and they have legal reasons that they are keeping everything so close. My guess CPZ gets cut as well as GoJet. EDV MX has people that were sent to training on the ERJ in June.

Who cares about your theory.

gojo
10-20-2018, 01:09 PM
Who cares about your theory.

Oh no, someone has a theory that doesnít line up with your theory? What blasphemy

MainlineorSuici
10-20-2018, 08:04 PM
While I desperately want to agree that y'all are right, and we'll be keeping our planes, I feel some things should be pointed out, devil's advocate style.

If the birds go to, say, OO, well Delta no longer has to fund the compass SOC, etc. Adding our planes to the OO fleet would mean some increased costs, but it's also pretty cost effective to consolidate the birds because of this. Cheaper to increase the size of one of their programs than run two separate ones.

Not to mention OO would operate much more efficiently and have much better performance. I hate OO's guts, but they simply run a better ship than we do. It's not hard to, cpz is a mess. Literally, 35% of our Delta flights depart delayed, every single day, all year long. It drives me to madness every day watching the clock hit D+1 on every departure.

We have been missing Delta's performance goals and been in the penalty section on/off for months (years even). Why should they uphold their contract with us, if we can't even hold up our end? They took the 170's away as soon as they could.

For an airline that wants to be nothing but the best, this doesn't look good to DL.

Neither does our MX program. Embraer itself has expressed that Compass trashes their airplanes like no other US regional. (Blame the management, not the mechanics IMHO). Delta is aware of this.

Furthermore, when we ask on the company call about American, management seems confident that we are their top performer and shouldn't be worried. When we ask about Delta, they get uncomfortable and more or less say "do your best and let us hope we don't get the axe." Delta has said in the past they want to consolidate.

On top of all this, to add to the rumor mill (true but not sure how credible), I've personally been told by a DL ALPA guy to "expect some bad news in 2019"

Take all that with a grain of salt. If we DO get the contract extended, I'd call this place the best regional to be at, period.

VIRotate
10-20-2018, 08:39 PM
While I desperately want to agree that y'all are right, and we'll be keeping our planes, I feel some things should be pointed out, devil's advocate style.

If the birds go to, say, OO, well Delta no longer has to fund the compass SOC, etc. Adding our planes to the OO fleet would mean some increased costs, but it's also pretty cost effective to consolidate the birds because of this. Cheaper to increase the size of one of their programs than run two separate ones.

Not to mention OO would operate much more efficiently and have much better performance. I hate OO's guts, but they simply run a better ship than we do. It's not hard to, cpz is a mess. Literally, 35% of our Delta flights depart delayed, every single day, all year long. It drives me to madness every day watching the clock hit D+1 on every departure.

We have been missing Delta's performance goals and been in the penalty section on/off for months (years even). Why should they uphold their contract with us, if we can't even hold up our end? They took the 170's away as soon as they could.

For an airline that wants to be nothing but the best, this doesn't look good to DL.

Neither does our MX program. Embraer itself has expressed that Compass trashes their airplanes like no other US regional. (Blame the management, not the mechanics IMHO). Delta is aware of this.

Furthermore, when we ask on the company call about American, management seems confident that we are their top performer and shouldn't be worried. When we ask about Delta, they get uncomfortable and more or less say "do your best and let us hope we don't get the axe." Delta has said in the past they want to consolidate.

On top of all this, to add to the rumor mill (true but not sure how credible), I've personally been told by a DL ALPA guy to "expect some bad news in 2019"

Take all that with a grain of salt. If we DO get the contract extended, I'd call this place the best regional to be at, period.

Just for fun, letís say youíre right and in 2020 our contract does not get renewed. OO canít staff what they already have. There is no way they can staff 36 additional 175s. People have been saying expect bad news in 2017, 2018, and now itís 2019.

I stopped caring about contract rumors a long time ago. Itís just not worth it because honestly the only people that actually know what will happen are the higher ups in DL and AA management. Not some gate agent, FA, Envoy pilot, OO pilot, or even a Delta pilot. All we can do is speculate and our forum isnít about that. Only complaining about hats, night visuals, and posting memes are allowed here.

BobbyLeeSwagger
10-20-2018, 09:16 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/2kl8pq.jpg

Fr8Thrust
10-21-2018, 01:13 AM
They took the 170's away as soon as they could.

Embraer itself has expressed that Compass trashes their airplanes like no other US regional. (Blame the management, not the mechanics IMHO). Delta is aware of this.

-The 170s were given away (ref: 170 memo Dec 2016). TSH didnít want to open a 170 LGA base and figured it was more profitable to give them away...and use the opportunity to force out their MoSt exPensive crews.

-Ever ride on some of these OALs? CPZ MX isnt great, but certainly not the worst. The root cause is mainline demand. DL schedules the CZ tails to fly more hours than the rest, hense they break down more often. CP just staffs, mainline pays for the rest. If they wanted better they would pay for more infrastructure. Why do they do this? Because they can given the nature of ownership and not being a WO.

VIRotate
10-21-2018, 03:44 AM
https://i.imgflip.com/2kl8pq.jpg

Hahaha now this is what I'm talking about! BLS is the meme enforcer.

NeverFlexTO
10-21-2018, 04:45 AM
All this talk about ďoldĒ planes. They are from what 2007? There are airlines flying planes from the 70s and 80s just fine. It would be a huge hit to the ROI if Delta started parking ďolderĒ 175s so early.

The aircraft are leased...Delta could easily give up the leases or have another DCI carrier who wants the risk take the leases...

Slowhawk
10-21-2018, 03:26 PM
I say we keep grilling them in the employee calls, not that itíll help :rolleyes:

Someone asked last call, Im sure he will ask again :D

This place unfortunately is the type to withhold bad information until (or after) they legally need to disclose it. Pretty sure thereís a federal law that requires 60 days notice to ďsignificant furloughs or shutdownĒ but even then not sure theyíd honor that.

Reminds me of 2017

ďAre you closing MSP? Rumors are circulating.Ē

ďNo, and we donít have any 787ís on order, either.Ē

*2 days later*

ďIt is with a heavy heart that we must announce the drawdown and closure of the MSP crew base....Ē

FlytheSky
10-21-2018, 05:52 PM
I say we keep grilling them in the employee calls, not that itíll help :rolleyes:

Someone asked last call, Im sure he will ask again :D

This place unfortunately is the type to withhold bad information until (or after) they legally need to disclose it. Pretty sure thereís a federal law that requires 60 days notice to ďsignificant furloughs or shutdownĒ but even then not sure theyíd honor that.

Reminds me of 2017

ďAre you closing MSP? Rumors are circulating.Ē

ďNo, and we donít have any 787ís on order, either.Ē

*2 days later*

ďIt is with a heavy heart that we must announce the drawdown and closure of the MSP crew base....Ē

In BG's defense, the actual question was "do you think MSP will GROW?" To which he said "no. We do not anticipate it growing."

Source: I was working the day of that employee call and didn't have a chance to listen to the recording until after the memo was posted about the MSP base closing. So I listened to that recording (and had seen the outrage) with that in mind. Not arguing that it's frustrating, but BG also admitted at the beginning of the MSP base closure call that he did know but didn't want to drop info of that magnitude at the end of an employee call. I can see the logic behind that, but I can very much see where the outrage can come from.

And no, I am not, nor ever was anything more than your "average Joe" line pilot while at Compass in case you think I am former management or anything. :cool:

JetDoc
10-22-2018, 05:16 PM
Pretty sure thereís a federal law that requires 60 days notice to ďsignificant furloughs or shutdownĒ but even then not sure theyíd honor that.

It's called the the Warn Act, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_Adjustment_and_Retraining_Notification_Act_ of_1988

I've been affected by it not once but twice and lived to tell about it. So will you.

NeverFlexTO
10-23-2018, 05:29 PM
While I desperately want to agree that y'all are right, and we'll be keeping our planes, I feel some things should be pointed out, devil's advocate style.

If the birds go to, say, OO, well Delta no longer has to fund the compass SOC, etc. Adding our planes to the OO fleet would mean some increased costs, but it's also pretty cost effective to consolidate the birds because of this. Cheaper to increase the size of one of their programs than run two separate ones.

Not to mention OO would operate much more efficiently and have much better performance. I hate OO's guts, but they simply run a better ship than we do. It's not hard to, cpz is a mess. Literally, 35% of our Delta flights depart delayed, every single day, all year long. It drives me to madness every day watching the clock hit D+1 on every departure.

We have been missing Delta's performance goals and been in the penalty section on/off for months (years even). Why should they uphold their contract with us, if we can't even hold up our end? They took the 170's away as soon as they could.

For an airline that wants to be nothing but the best, this doesn't look good to DL.

Neither does our MX program. Embraer itself has expressed that Compass trashes their airplanes like no other US regional. (Blame the management, not the mechanics IMHO). Delta is aware of this.

Furthermore, when we ask on the company call about American, management seems confident that we are their top performer and shouldn't be worried. When we ask about Delta, they get uncomfortable and more or less say "do your best and let us hope we don't get the axe." Delta has said in the past they want to consolidate.

On top of all this, to add to the rumor mill (true but not sure how credible), I've personally been told by a DL ALPA guy to "expect some bad news in 2019"

Take all that with a grain of salt. If we DO get the contract extended, I'd call this place the best regional to be at, period.

You got facts to back this up? I know personally there are something’s that you’ve stated that aren’t true...also if you believe some DL ALPA guy knows DLs DCI future fleet plan you’re sorely mistaken. DL ALPA just put out a contract survey on scope in regards to JVs and DCI...he’s probably just trying to scare you since DLs contract is amendable soon. AA and DL run extremely different styles, and performance is based off of different metrics...DL micromanaged everything while AA sits back and lets the Eagle carriers run the way they want

TillerThriller
10-23-2018, 07:58 PM
Wanted to throw this one out there because I have heard from some new hires lately that they were told In training DL is trying to get de identified FOQA data because they own the planes and track pilots. A couple of new hire FOs have been so nervous about ASAPs and FOQA data hurting their chances of getting hired. I am not involved with that program but from what I understand that would go against what the program is for right? I told them it was prolly a scare tactic.

Dalda Erlines
10-23-2018, 08:15 PM
Wanted to throw this one out there because I have heard from some new hires lately that they were told In training DL is trying to get de identified FOQA data because they own the planes and track pilots. A couple of new hire FOs have been so nervous about ASAPs and FOQA data hurting their chances of getting hired. I am not involved with that program but from what I understand that would go against what the program is for right? I told them it was prolly a scare tactic.

That is so untrue in so many ways. Itís utterly ridiculous. The FOQA program is quite protected to great legal lengths. DL may be able to gain access to knowledge of certain events, but in no way will the pilot be connected or affected. If they are then my suggestion would be to grab a lawyer and cash out.

ninerdriver
10-24-2018, 04:31 AM
That is so untrue in so many ways. Itís utterly ridiculous. The FOQA program is quite protected to great legal lengths. DL may be able to gain access to knowledge of certain events, but in no way will the pilot be connected or affected. If they are then my suggestion would be to grab a lawyer and cash out.

Second this. At 9E, Delta owns both the planes and the pilots. We're full of conspiracy theories, but that's not even a rumor here.

ninerdriver
10-24-2018, 04:35 AM
In all seriousness, though, there's a rumor in New York that BLS took a six-figure consulting gig with LSG to improve snack basket quality at JFK and DTW. Just sayin'.

DeltaCorrectons
10-24-2018, 07:49 AM
Just for fun, letís say youíre right and in 2020 our contract does not get renewed. OO canít staff what they already have. There is no way they can staff 36 additional 175s. People have been saying expect bad news in 2017, 2018, and now itís 2019.

I stopped caring about contract rumors a long time ago. Itís just not worth it because honestly the only people that actually know what will happen are the higher ups in DL and AA management. Not some gate agent, FA, Envoy pilot, OO pilot, or even a Delta pilot. All we can do is speculate and our forum isnít about that. Only complaining about hats, night visuals, and posting memes are allowed here.

OO might not be able to staff them but EDV is so overstaffed right now itís not even funny. Yesterday the new CEO came into the MSP crew room and his word choice was interesting when answering questions about growth basically leading most to speculate that someone going to be getting bad news but donít want to make the same mistake they made with Expressjet leaving fling with them for so long and watching performance and the aircraft go into the ****ter.

Excargodog
10-24-2018, 10:21 AM
OO might not be able to staff them but EDV is so overstaffed right now itís not even funny.

So just out of idle curiosity, how many of those overstaffed guys are type-rated in anything other than CRJs? And how many E-175 sims do you have? Because ther seems like a systemwide shortage of the latter...

Just sayin....

notmpet
10-24-2018, 10:22 AM
OO might not be able to staff them but EDV is so overstaffed right now itís not even funny. Yesterday the new CEO came into the MSP crew room and his word choice was interesting when answering questions about growth basically leading most to speculate that someone going to be getting bad news but donít want to make the same mistake they made with Expressjet leaving fling with them for so long and watching performance and the aircraft go into the ****ter.

GoJet maybe... CPZ has 3 sims now for the 175 and still can't push enough pilots through fast enough, don't see how endeavor thinks it can train 500 pilots on the airplane with one sim or whatever they are saying they have now, unless they've been secretly training pilots and have the 175 program in full effect. If it's going to happen it would be announced soon or people would certainly hear of people at endeavor being trained on the 175.

notmpet
10-24-2018, 10:25 AM
So just out of idle curiosity, how many of those overstaffed guys are type-rated in anything other than CRJs? And how many E-175 sims do you have? Because ther seems like a systemwide shortage of the latter...

Just sayin....

impeccable post timing... beat me to it by 1 minute

DeltaCorrectons
10-24-2018, 01:18 PM
So just out of idle curiosity, how many of those overstaffed guys are type-rated in anything other than CRJs? And how many E-175 sims do you have? Because ther seems like a systemwide shortage of the latter...

Just sayin....

Fair point when the subject came up last year Delta asked Endeavor management for a timeline to get the E-175 online at Endeavor they told them three months and the 170s ended up going to Republic and the training program for the Ejet was put on the shelf but was ready and instructors were going to class on the aircraft within the month at that time. Who owns the Compass sims?

TillerThriller
10-24-2018, 01:40 PM
Compass owns one sim in MSP and lease the other ones they use.

Excargodog
10-24-2018, 02:59 PM
Fair point when the subject came up last year Delta asked Endeavor management for a timeline to get the E-175 online at Endeavor they told them three months and the 170s ended up going to Republic and the training program for the Ejet was put on the shelf but was ready and instructors were going to class on the aircraft within the month at that time. Who owns the Compass sims?

It ain't just the sims, it's the money. That's why TSH doesn't want to sell Compass as a singleton although they have allegedly had offers. Let's make it simple and conservative and not consider FAs, MX, etc. let's just do it on the back of a napkin? Let's make some conservative assumptions. Can you type rate a class in 3 months? Maybe. It's taking Mesa about six months currently (but that's Mesa) and because of systemwide sim availability issues most people are doing it closer to four currently, but let's go with your three months just for giggles and say you are right. Now if you are talking about a class of twenty, I'll concede you can probably do that, but not a class of 300, which is what it will take to staff 36 aircraft. Ain't going to happen. Not even if you are type rating all guys with existing 121 time. But let's suspend disbelief and pretend that it will. What's the price tag on that?


Well, first of all, there is the cost of the sims and instructors and FPTs. That's going to be about $15 grand a unit, but let's just call it $10 grand a unit. $10,000 X 300 = $3 million.

Hotel and per Diem costs for the trainees. $60 per room per night (contract rate)plus $24 in per diem X 90 nights X 300 pilots = $2.7 million.

Then we are looking at wages.


One hundred fifty of those guys are going to be existing captains. Let's assume they are all year five guys making $95 an hour with a 401K contribution of $5 an hour to make it an even $100 an hour.
$100 X 75 hour training minimum X 3 months x150 guys = $3.375 million.

Now if the other 150 guys are total newbie's - which would be cheapest but not necessarily the safest - you'd only be looking at $50 an hour X 75 X 3 X 150 = $1.69 million.

So before we look at actually setting up new bases out West, where the flying is, somebody has got to front load this with about $11 million, just to get the pilots up to speed, and that does NOT cover relocation costs or what that does to the rest of the regional's pilot requirements because unless existing flying is going away, you still have to train to offset those shifted to the new bases and new equipment.

Now $11 million isn't huge money, I'll grant you, compared to the cost of even a single aircraft, but it isn't chump change either and by the time you toss in maintenance, FAs, and the rest of the infrastructure, it's almost always going to be cheaper to buy an existing certificate and consolidate flying than just move aircraft around, unless you are dealing with a real old Pilot group with a lot of lifers, which sure isn't the case at Compass. Compass, sold as a functional entity, is probably $20 - 25 million cheaper than reconstituting the pilot group and avoids the opportunity cost and capital cost of 35 aircraft sitting around for three months ( and far more likely much longer than that).

And the financial and HR people all know this, of course. A couple of different companies - including Delta and Republic I believe - woukd be happy to buy Compass with their operations (in Delta's case, with Endeavor and then let the unions argue the SLI)) and that may even happen someday depending on how much might be saved by such a consolidation. My personal opinion is that both Delta and HK woukd like to see the other guy blink first and come out ahead of the game and that at least to a degree both are sort of playing chicken.

That's my take on the situation anyway, FWIW.

Tpinks
10-24-2018, 03:58 PM
That is millions of dollars in just parts buildup, training, adding staffing for west coast bases, etc, not to mention...the higher cost of pilots due to the wage difference. Sending these planes to Skywest or wherever will still involve millions in training and now higher pilot wages.

No regional has the pilots on hand to staff all the CPZ planes.

I think itís staying. Everyone thinks itís going.

Not if Republic takes them. As for pilots, we are over staffed for the historic Republic staffing model. 36 FO's received awards for Captains in February on a vacancy of 32, March's vacancy was just posted today for another 36. System wide, we have a lot of Reserve captains. We are hiring 80-100 a month and they are testing AQP initial currently with approval pending in the next few months.

In any scenario of planes leaving one carrier for another, the crews are not a huge issue. Any plane that is put on a certificated operation must go through a conformity check and be approved on the certificate. If your 175's are in any condition like those clapped out 170's were, it will take 2-3 months for each aircraft to be brought up to Republic's standards as that's what the timeframe was for the 170's.




But about the BMW analogy in regards to the 175, pretty spot on. The question is how are other airlines like OO and Combrick handling it?
We have 170's older than your 175's. And our 170's don't seem to have any more issues than our 175's do. I actually like the 170's better than the 175's personally (except for those 5 Compass planes). But we don't seem to have any major issues with our fleet.


Not to mention OO would operate much more efficiently and have much better performance. I hate OO's guts, but they simply run a better ship than we do. It's not hard to, cpz is a mess. Literally, 35% of our Delta flights depart delayed, every single day, all year long. It drives me to madness every day watching the clock hit D+1 on every departure.

Neither does our MX program. Embraer itself has expressed that Compass trashes their airplanes like no other US regional. (Blame the management, not the mechanics IMHO). Delta is aware of this.

If it was purely off of on-time percentage, Delta would have kicked Skywest to the curb in LGA already, yet they are still flying there. Skywest literally has the worst on-time percentage in LGA of any carrier, domestic or foreign, operating into the airport. They are about 10% behind the airport average.

NeverFlexTO
10-26-2018, 05:16 AM
Money doesnít matter when Delta is writing the check

poutine
10-26-2018, 02:09 PM
Oh no, someone has a theory that doesnít line up with your theory? What blasphemy

Sounds like my ex taking to me.

gojo
10-27-2018, 12:44 PM
Sounds like my ex taking to me.

Well, where do you think I got it?

savedbythevnav
10-27-2018, 06:15 PM
EDV MX has people that were sent to training on the ERJ in June.

I thought that was because OO was paying 9E for MX in JFK/LGA. Those people have to be able to perform said MX.

Dalda Erlines
10-27-2018, 06:33 PM
I thought that was because OO was paying 9E for MX in JFK/LGA. Those people have to be able to perform said MX.

Like when delta sent a bunch mechanics to learn how to fix the 175...DAL is taking your 175s!!

VIRotate
10-28-2018, 03:02 AM
I thought that was because OO was paying 9E for MX in JFK/LGA. Those people have to be able to perform said MX.

Isn't EDV supposed to be getting 20 UAL 175s if their contract passed?

ninerdriver
10-28-2018, 04:01 AM
Isn't EDV supposed to be getting 20 UAL 175s if their contract passed?

Maybe you're thinking XJT? The current EDV rumor is we're back to getting 700s from a certain airline that rhymes with slow pet.

poorflyer
10-28-2018, 12:22 PM
Maybe you're thinking XJT? The current EDV rumor is we're back to getting 700s from a certain airline that rhymes with slow pet.

Can we set up a website for all airline rumors so we can track which ones come true. I'm starting to not be able to follow all the gossip. Hell we can even put money on it.

FollowMe
10-28-2018, 12:23 PM
Can we set up a website for all airline rumors so we can track which ones come true. I'm starting to not be able to follow all the gossip. Hell we can even put money on it.

I thought that was what APC was created for?

VIRotate
10-29-2018, 01:33 AM
Maybe you're thinking XJT? The current EDV rumor is we're back to getting 700s from a certain airline that rhymes with slow pet.

Ah yeah that's who I was talking about! :o

So that's the flavor of the week now. In a week or two it will be back to our 175s I'm sure! :D

Excargodog
10-29-2018, 08:42 AM
Current rumor in the Republic thread is that Delta wants them to be trained in CRJs:


https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/republic-airline/117642-crjs-coming.html

exactly why they think that, I'm not sure. I'd say it would be ridiculous for them to expect Delta to not give any additional CRJ flying they have to their own wholly owned but then Alaska did give some of Horizin's best routes to Skywest. Ridiculous things do happen.

amcnd
10-29-2018, 08:46 AM
Current rumor in the Republic thread is that Delta wants them to be trained in CRJs:


https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/republic-airline/117642-crjs-coming.html

exactly why they think that, I'm not sure. I'd say it would be ridiculous for them to expect Delta to not give any additional CRJ flying they have to their own wholly owned but then Alaska did give some of Horizin's best routes to Skywest. Ridiculous things do happen.

Define best routes... and it doesnít make for good business to send QX 175ís back east with no MX support... Donít forget the first few months of Compass being out West.. and the teething that caused before MX was in place..

ninerdriver
10-29-2018, 01:54 PM
Current rumor in the Republic thread is that Delta wants them to be trained in CRJs:

Under the three-regional plan/rumor/conspiracy theory, Delta allegedly wants each of its regionals to have CRJ and ERJ capabilities.

Excargodog
10-29-2018, 05:18 PM
Under the three-regional plan/rumor/conspiracy theory, Delta allegedly wants each of its regionals to have CRJ and ERJ capabilities.

Been awhile since my college business and Econ courses, but it is difficult for me to understand a business case where Delta would want its regional's to increase their overhead by having parts inventories and training programs to support aircraft they do not actually fly. I'd be glad to listen to anybody with a rationale to suggest why they might do that but none comes to my mind currently.

amcnd
10-29-2018, 05:42 PM
Probably what happened is Bombardier is fire discounting there CRJís. So what Republic/Compass/TSA was hopping for was ERJís hence the ERJ LOI. Maybe Delta changed there mind and wants CRJís... so they have to bid to fly them. Or not..

Slowhawk
10-29-2018, 06:22 PM
https://i.imgur.com/N7gry4t.jpg

ninerdriver
10-29-2018, 07:11 PM
Been awhile since my college business and Econ courses, but it is difficult for me to understand a business case where Delta would want its regional's to increase their overhead by having parts inventories and training programs to support aircraft they do not actually fly. I'd be glad to listen to anybody with a rationale to suggest why they might do that but none comes to my mind currently.

I guess I should have said, "Delta would want each of its regionals to fly both CRJs and ERJs." YX would have CRJs to keep OO and 9E on their toes. 9E would have ERJs to keep OO and YX on their toes. Theoretically, it'd be easier to swap Delta-owned planes among regionals if they all flew both RJs, just in case one of those regionals failed/disapparated/was Comaired.

Excargodog
10-29-2018, 09:38 PM
Probably what happened is Bombardier is fire discounting there CRJís. So what Republic/Compass/TSA was hopping for was ERJís hence the ERJ LOI. Maybe Delta changed there mind and wants CRJís... so they have to bid to fly them. Or not..

Except Delta ALREADY OWNS the 36 E-175s doing the Compass Delta flying so they are a sunk expense. And pretty much ALL new aircraft orders are discounted from their nominal list price so I'm fairly certain Embraer/Boeing would match a Bombardier deal. Or not.

Excargodog
10-29-2018, 09:47 PM
I guess I should have said, "Delta would want each of its regionals to fly both CRJs and ERJs." YX would have CRJs to keep OO and 9E on their toes. 9E would have ERJs to keep OO and YX on their toes. Theoretically, it'd be easier to swap Delta-owned planes among regionals if they all flew both RJs, just in case one of those regionals failed/disapparated/was Comaired.

Even so, it would make zero business sense to implement the training and logistics support program until the regional actually had the contract signed and the second aircraft physically inbound. Keeping slots filled for equipment you actually DO have - both ops and maintenance - requires enough effort without building capabilities for things you don't even have a contract for.

Excargodog
10-29-2018, 09:55 PM
https://i.imgur.com/N7gry4t.jpg

Apparently not as bitter a pill to swallow as getting 1000 hrs of 121 FO time and holding the seniority to upgrade without having company mins for TT or ME time to upgrade though.

That seems to really be warping the attitude of those people in that situation. Perhaps that ought to be addressed in the next TA, and in the interim at least emphasized more strongly by the recruiters. Otherwise it's sort of like bait and switch.

Those affected by it seem to be turning into really bitter people.

Slowhawk
10-30-2018, 10:16 AM
Being the plug for 10 months will do that to you. At this point I just want job security, I donít care if I have to wait for upgrade.

notmpet
10-31-2018, 09:47 PM
Being the plug for 10 months will do that to you. At this point I just want job security, I donít care if I have to wait for upgrade.

in case you haven't realized yet, there's no such thing as 'job security' at the regionals

NeverFlexTO
11-01-2018, 05:29 AM
Being the plug for 10 months will do that to you. At this point I just want job security, I donít care if I have to wait for upgrade.

No offense but guys sat reserve for 4+ years not that long ago at the regionals...sorry your the plug but timing and luck is everything in this industry, youíll appreciate things more later on in your career because of this

Slowhawk
11-01-2018, 06:48 AM
Not throwing a pitty party here, just saying keeping the delta jets is a pipe dream

DeltaCorrectons
11-01-2018, 09:04 AM
Not throwing a pitty party here, just saying keeping the delta jets is a pipe dream

EDV just offered Leave Without Pay for Dec and might extend into Jan/Feb. The growth that was coming in May has now been pushed to October due to issues with contracts.

Excargodog
11-01-2018, 12:10 PM
EDV just offered Leave Without Pay for Dec and might extend into Jan/Feb. The growth that was coming in May has now been pushed to October due to issues with contracts.

EVERY contract ALWAYS has an expiration date. And each side generally tries to play chicken, holding out to the last, hoping the other side will blink first. A few undisputable facts:

1. SOMEBODY will be doing the flying as long as pax are buying tickets.
2. SOMEBODY will be flying the Delta 175s because they are still relatively new aircraft.
3. If it's not the same SOMEBODIES currently flying, the new SOMEBODIES will have to be recruited and/or transferred from their current flying with all the expense and lead time all that entails.
4. As we get nearer to contract expiration time the heat builds ON BOTH SIDES to come up with a resolution that avoids costing TSH money and avoids costing Delta money.

Now those things I DO know. What I DON'T know is:
1. Will Delta squeeze hard to get TSH to sell Compass separate from the other two certificates.
2. Will one (or both) of the parties figure that the long range benefit of NOT coming to terms is worth the short term (but certainly not trivial) transition costs.

But for right now I'm flying my butt off, not being asked to take leave without pay. I think I'd rather be out here right now than back East, wondering how much flying was going to be left for me after the new baby Airbus takes away some of my better routes.

Just sayin...

KelvinHelmholtz
11-01-2018, 01:17 PM
But for right now I'm flying my butt off, not being asked to take leave without pay. I think I'd rather be out here right now than back East, wondering how much flying was going to be left for me after the new baby Airbus takes away some of my better routes.

Just sayin...

No one is being asked to take leave without pay, it is simply being offered. Something similar was offered at Delta this summer, albeit with some pay due to their superior contract.

How are Compass DCI performance numbers looking? The A220 is coming to SLC too

Just sayin...

DiamondDriver
11-01-2018, 01:25 PM
No one is being asked to take leave without pay, it is simply being offered. Something similar was offered at Delta this summer, albeit with some pay due to their superior contract.

How are Compass DCI performance numbers looking? The A220 is coming to SLC too

Just sayin...

Endeavor has a DCI Kevin? No one had any idea.
-How are the flight hours looking for 900 FOs at 9E hired within the past year?
-How many 9E guys are in the December Delta class from the DCI program.

9E time building is tough right now, its easier to build time at CPZ right now. Every regional has problems, all Excargodog is saying is that he is choosing to build time and not focus on the future. But thank you for the update.

Don't be a debbie downer. Go be negative towards FollowCompanyRJ in your forum.

KelvinHelmholtz
11-01-2018, 01:31 PM
Endeavor has a DCI Kevin? No one had any idea.
-How are the flight hours looking for 900 FOs at 9E hired within the past year?
-How many 9E guys are in the December Delta class from the DCI program.

9E time building is tough right now, its easier to build time at CPZ right now. Every regional has problems, all Excargodog is saying is that he is choosing to build time and not focus on the future. But thank you for the update.

Don't be a debbie downer. Go be negative towards FollowCompanyRJ in your forum.

You seem to be confused

DCI is Delta Connection. DGI is Delta garunteed interview. DGI interviews start in November, no idea what kind of class dates they will get.

Iím not going to try to defend 9E hiring strategy because I donít understand it either.

DiamondDriver
11-01-2018, 02:10 PM
You seem to be confused

DCI is Delta Connection. DGI is Delta garunteed interview. DGI interviews start in November, no idea what kind of class dates they will get.

Iím not going to try to defend 9E hiring strategy because I donít understand it either.

Understandable, my mistake. I hope the growth comes for you guys and the DGI interviews are successful here in a few weeks. Apologies for the misunderstanding!

...as for that A220, I think somewhere on the forums they said a lot of those routes out of NYC were served by all of the DCI carriers and as for SLC...I guess time will tell!

Fr8Thrust
11-01-2018, 10:35 PM
Something is up if they do not have a hiring plan for 2019 yet.

VIRotate
11-02-2018, 12:15 AM
Something is up if they do not have a hiring plan for 2019 yet.

Bonus has just been restructured. While it is less, there is still money on the table. I'd be concerned if they got rid of the bonus and we still didn't have 2019 plans. This step means at least we are getting ready for 2019 hiring.

dash3t
11-02-2018, 11:17 AM
Bonus has just been restructured. .....


Restructured how? Have they published this anywhere? I've had my app in since August without a peep. Which I guess is better than a TBNT.

Bloggs
11-02-2018, 03:39 PM
Endeavor has a DCI Kevin? No one had any idea.
-How are the flight hours looking for 900 FOs at 9E hired within the past year?
-How many 9E guys are in the December Delta class from the DCI program.

9E time building is tough right now, its easier to build time at CPZ right now. Every regional has problems, all Excargodog is saying is that he is choosing to build time and not focus on the future. But thank you for the update.

Don't be a debbie downer. Go be negative towards FollowCompanyRJ in your forum.

You've never heard of DCI?

You Sir, are Delta material!

There is a Mad Dog in Atlanta with your name on it. Go forth and chastise all those who use guard in an unauthorized manner.

VIRotate
11-03-2018, 12:44 AM
Restructured how? Have they published this anywhere? I've had my app in since August without a peep. Which I guess is better than a TBNT.

It hasn't been published yet so I'd rather not say. It's not gone though. I think it means we are getting ready for 2019 hiring so don't lose hope just yet.

max gross
11-03-2018, 07:13 AM
You've never heard of DCI?

You Sir, are Delta material!

There is a Mad Dog in Atlanta with your name on it. Go forth and chastise all those who use guard in an unauthorized manner.

Hahaha. I love the guard banter. Funny thing is, Iíve never seen a Delta crew member do anything other than turn down the volume.

Seems like you just troll yourselves!

sMFer
11-03-2018, 04:57 PM
Wind check.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

brocklee9000
11-03-2018, 07:09 PM
It hasn't been published yet so I'd rather not say. It's not gone though. I think it means we are getting ready for 2019 hiring so don't lose hope just yet.

This does instill a little bit of hope. A bonus really isnít a big deal to me, but if theyíll offer one Iím not going to balk at it. Of course, they have to resume hiring and finally give me a call haha.

When did hiring sort of come to a standstill this summer? I think I first sent my app in at the end of August, so Iím just curious how long/how many guys might have an app in ahead of me once they start up again.

DiamondDriver
11-03-2018, 09:05 PM
This does instill a little bit of hope. A bonus really isn’t a big deal to me, but if they’ll offer one I’m not going to balk at it. Of course, they have to resume hiring and finally give me a call haha.

When did hiring sort of come to a standstill this summer? I think I first sent my app in at the end of August, so I’m just curious how long/how many guys might have an app in ahead of me once they start up again.

I want to say it was around mid/late July when those in the pool were sent out information regarding available class dates for the rest of 2018 and told to select dates. i'm not 100% sure if that coincided with the hiring slow down but I believe it was in the same time frame.

...just for a little insight, in the most recent class which started in late October, 2 out of our 6 were offered CJOs back in March of this year.

so the pipeline of applicants already with CJOs waiting for class dates could be decently large. I do not know.

VIRotate
11-04-2018, 01:59 AM
This does instill a little bit of hope. A bonus really isnít a big deal to me, but if theyíll offer one Iím not going to balk at it. Of course, they have to resume hiring and finally give me a call haha.

When did hiring sort of come to a standstill this summer? I think I first sent my app in at the end of August, so Iím just curious how long/how many guys might have an app in ahead of me once they start up again.

Classes were reduced from 4 a month to 2 a month during the summer. This was due to a few reasons: lack of sims, lack of instructors, upgrade priority, etc. There are airlines sending guys home for weeks and even months. We already have a pretty difficult initial syllabus so having too much time off during training would be hard on the new guys for sure.

Anyways moral of the story is the bonus will still exist at least for now albeit reduced. Classes are still being filled by poolies. I'd imagine we will back to calling people January/February of 2019.

brocklee9000
11-04-2018, 02:39 PM
Classes were reduced from 4 a month to 2 a month during the summer. This was due to a few reasons: lack of sims, lack of instructors, upgrade priority, etc. There are airlines sending guys home for weeks and even months. We already have a pretty difficult initial syllabus so having too much time off during training would be hard on the new guys for sure.

Anyways moral of the story is the bonus will still exist at least for now albeit reduced. Classes are still being filled by poolies. I'd imagine we will back to calling people January/February of 2019.

Yeah I understand what caused the delay, I just didn't know exactly when it started. Makes me nervous though, since I'm on track to have my hours by the end of February or early March. So unless a bunch of guys ahead of me decline (because they've taken other jobs by now) and/or they can offer a class date that's soon after hiring resumes (which I know won't happen), I'm not even going to get in the pool. I wish I got some sort of acknowledgement other than the auto reply from airlineapps when I update my app each month... But I keep updating each month and hope for a call, because I'd totally come here unless they call in February and say the next date isn't until May.

GearUpHeadDown
11-05-2018, 05:58 AM
Yeah I understand what caused the delay, I just didn't know exactly when it started. Makes me nervous though, since I'm on track to have my hours by the end of February or early March. So unless a bunch of guys ahead of me decline (because they've taken other jobs by now) and/or they can offer a class date that's soon after hiring resumes (which I know won't happen), I'm not even going to get in the pool. I wish I got some sort of acknowledgement other than the auto reply from airlineapps when I update my app each month... But I keep updating each month and hope for a call, because I'd totally come here unless they call in February and say the next date isn't until May.

There are much better and more stable options available...

Taco280AI
11-05-2018, 06:04 AM
People have been saying Compass is a sinking ship for years, yet here it still is. We weren't going to have enough pilots for summer flying, yet we did. Too many Chicken Littles on this site.

JetDoc
11-05-2018, 06:07 AM
There are much better and more stable options available...

LOL, "stable'? Either you are new or you are ignorant. Stability in the airline biz? Hilarious.

Captain A
11-05-2018, 07:29 AM
At building C last week the new COO told us that hiring has not slowed (despite rumors) and classes were full through June so far, and hiring continues. FWIW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Excargodog
11-05-2018, 08:09 AM
LOL, "stable'? Either you are new or you are ignorant. Stability in the airline biz? Hilarious.

Feb 11 2009 working for Colgan Airways appeared to be "stable." The next day not so much. In the end any regional - even a wholly owned - is a throw-away, if necessary to protect the brand of the major.

BobbyLeeSwagger
11-05-2018, 10:36 AM
LOL, "stable'? Either you are new or you are ignorant. Stability in the airline biz? Hilarious.

This is how I picture you JetDoc :D .. It's true though, unfortunately, you speak from experience.

https://i.imgflip.com/2ls49w.jpg

brocklee9000
11-05-2018, 12:34 PM
There are much better and more stable options available...

Iím not chasing money, bonuses, quick upgrade, types, or anything like that. I live in Phoenix and we want to stay here, and the pilot group seems to be great. Iím not considering Mesa and Skywest would take at least a year to get back to PHX. So Iím looking for QOL both for a base/commute, and who Iíll have to work with. A regional is a regional, for most intents and purposes, so might as well pick the one thatís close to me and has a mostly favorable opinion amongst its employees.

JetDoc
11-05-2018, 01:30 PM
This is how I picture you JetDoc :D .. It's true though, unfortunately, you speak from experience.

https://i.imgflip.com/2ls49w.jpg

LOL! That's how I feel sometimes and yeah, 29 years in the biz, I've seen some shiite.

notmpet
11-05-2018, 01:54 PM
LOL! That's how I feel sometimes and yeah, 29 years in the biz, I've seen some shiite.

Damn... 4 yrs in I feel like I seen some sht

sMFer
11-05-2018, 05:49 PM
Damn... 4 yrs in I feel like I seen some shtYou should see Jetdoc in person... had lunch with him a few weeks ago. Can't shake it.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

GearUpHeadDown
11-06-2018, 07:47 AM
LOL, "stable'? Either you are new or you are ignorant. Stability in the airline biz? Hilarious.

There are much better choices that more closely fit the phrase "stable". Compass isn't even close to it.

week
11-06-2018, 04:14 PM
Iím not chasing money, bonuses, quick upgrade, types, or anything like that. I live in Phoenix and we want to stay here, and the pilot group seems to be great. Iím not considering Mesa and Skywest would take at least a year to get back to PHX. So Iím looking for QOL both for a base/commute, and who Iíll have to work with. A regional is a regional, for most intents and purposes, so might as well pick the one thatís close to me and has a mostly favorable opinion amongst its employees.

Our PHX trips are a terrible and the base is our smallest and doesnít make much sense. Iíd rather commute across time zones than be stuck flying PHX/SEA trips. And I really wouldnít recommend coming here unless we get some concrete info about the next 2-3 years of fleet size

BobbyLeeSwagger
11-06-2018, 05:07 PM
I say come on over.. Ride or die, that's our motto here.. Every compass pilot has rolled the dice coming here since 2008 (except 2014-15 hires). Ride the wave. Take a chance. Win big or lose big, that's compass, that's the regionals. You want phx? We got it! Like I said before, we're gonna party till the cops get called..

Come on over, if it all goes under later, you'll be part of an elite warrior snack basket-eating group who weren't afraid to go "all in" and look the proverbial Black Jack dealer straight in the eye with a "King" and "10" on the table and say "hit me!"

https://i.imgflip.com/2lwgmt.jpg

Fr8Thrust
11-06-2018, 07:24 PM
Our PHX trips are a terrible and the base is our smallest and doesnít make much sense. Iíd rather commute across time zones than be stuck flying PHX/SEA trips. And I really wouldnít recommend coming here unless we get some concrete info about the next 2-3 years of fleet size

PHX is perfect for those who live in base and for those who want to hold a line faster. Not to mention itís the most affordable base. CP offers the best package of any PHX regional. What doesnít make sense about it? Less commuter and layover hotel costs for the company and they got a 4th mx base out of it. I mean what a real loser...

Excargodog
11-06-2018, 08:06 PM
Somebody's screen name needs to be changed to "weak."

It's just a minor change.

poutine
11-06-2018, 08:58 PM
Somebody's screen name needs to be changed to "weak."

It's just a minor change.

LOL!!!
I say you gotta be ďstrongĒ to be working at a company that you keep thinking its sinking every second. Like BLS said Just enjoy the moment.

word302
11-07-2018, 10:38 AM
Somebody's screen name needs to be changed to "weak."

It's just a minor change.

Dude's been bipolar since he started there hasn't he?

SetVap
11-08-2018, 06:28 PM
Our PHX trips are a terrible and the base is our smallest and doesnít make much sense. Iíd rather commute across time zones than be stuck flying PHX/SEA trips. And I really wouldnít recommend coming here unless we get some concrete info about the next 2-3 years of fleet size

I disagree.

As a PHX based pilot I love the PHX base. I love the crews here, I don't mind the trips, even when they are unproductive, because I get to drive to work, park in the terminal parking garage, and walk a few hundred feet to the departure gate.

I love that whenever I request runway 8/26 I have only been told no once, I love that I have met and flown with almost every pilot and flight attendant in the base, and I love that I fly the E175, even when the APU, Bleeds, Seat 3C, 4D, and 20F and forward coffee pot don't work.


The best advice I have for any new hire or someone considering it here is much like BLS has said - it is what you make of it. Does it suck when the APU doesn't work? Yeah but I have that checklist memorized by heart now and life goes on. Are there pilots here that a lot of people complain about? Yeah, but I go into every trip with a positive attitude and open mind and wouldn't you know it that I get along with every pilot I have flown with so far - and that includes the LCA that a lot of guys don't like in PHX, and even the recent SEA transfer.

If you find that certain pilots on here seem to be constantly complaining and negative then you should realize that they're probably not a good source of info.

Who cares if the base doesn't make sense?! It makes a hell of a lot of sense to me because I get to drive to work and not commute time zones which others on here apparently enjoy doing.

Truthfully - the worst part about PHX is an overweight Mr. Belvudere look alike that has a **** poor attitude and wears a grey Delta vest that's two sizes too small. He refuses to smile, and takes it upon himself to be the worst gate agent at all of Delta. Nothing pleases me more than flashing the biggest **** eating grin every time I see his miserable face.

3400
11-08-2018, 07:06 PM
Anyone know the story behind N216NN sitting in Marana? She's been sitting in the desert for over a week now.

jungle driver
11-08-2018, 07:47 PM
Anyone know the story behind N216NN sitting in Marana? She's been sitting in the desert for over a week now.

I think that is the one that hit a pterodactyl, dented the fuselage and bent the inboard slat. Or something like that.

FlytheSky
11-08-2018, 10:04 PM
I disagree.

As a PHX based pilot I love the PHX base. I love the crews here, I don't mind the trips, even when they are unproductive, because I get to drive to work, park in the terminal parking garage, and walk a few hundred feet to the departure gate.

I love that whenever I request runway 8/26 I have only been told no once, I love that I have met and flown with almost every pilot and flight attendant in the base, and I love that I fly the E175, even when the APU, Bleeds, Seat 3C, 4D, and 20F and forward coffee pot don't work.


The best advice I have for any new hire or someone considering it here is much like BLS has said - it is what you make of it. Does it suck when the APU doesn't work? Yeah but I have that checklist memorized by heart now and life goes on. Are there pilots here that a lot of people complain about? Yeah, but I go into every trip with a positive attitude and open mind and wouldn't you know it that I get along with every pilot I have flown with so far - and that includes the LCA that a lot of guys don't like in PHX, and even the recent SEA transfer.

If you find that certain pilots on here seem to be constantly complaining and negative then you should realize that they're probably not a good source of info.

Who cares if the base doesn't make sense?! It makes a hell of a lot of sense to me because I get to drive to work and not commute time zones which others on here apparently enjoy doing.

Truthfully - the worst part about PHX is an overweight Mr. Belvudere look alike that has a **** poor attitude and wears a grey Delta vest that's two sizes too small. He refuses to smile, and takes it upon himself to be the worst gate agent at all of Delta. Nothing pleases me more than flashing the biggest **** eating grin every time I see his miserable face.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/65520461/this-guy-gets-it.jpg

And remember, when you make it to mainline, you'll deal with a lot of the same stuff at the regional level. Sure, the paychecks will get bigger, but it's the same job. Attitude is key. Bring a good attitude to work, and this is one of the best jobs in the world.

Boeing175
11-09-2018, 02:39 AM
I think that is the one that hit a pterodactyl, dented the fuselage and bent the inboard slat. Or something like that.216 got hit by a lav truck in lax. 604 hit a pterodactyl in ont

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

NeverFlexTO
11-09-2018, 09:55 AM
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/65520461/this-guy-gets-it.jpg

And remember, when you make it to mainline, you'll deal with a lot of the same stuff at the regional level. Sure, the paychecks will get bigger, but it's the same job. Attitude is key. Bring a good attitude to work, and this is one of the best jobs in the world.

Spot on, post...your QOL will go significantly downhill for most people by having to commute potentially across several time zones, getting a crashpad, etc....YMMV...even with having to do all that having a good attitude makes it all worth it, especially on 6 hour transcons with a guy 2 years from retirement whose checked out in the left seat

TheFly
11-09-2018, 11:49 AM
Truthfully - the worst part about PHX is an overweight Mr. Belvudere look alike that has a **** poor attitude and wears a grey Delta vest that's two sizes too small. He refuses to smile, and takes it upon himself to be the worst gate agent at all of Delta. Nothing pleases me more than flashing the biggest **** eating grin every time I see his miserable face.

Does his name start with a P and shares the first name of a classic detective show that ran from 1957-1966?

week
11-09-2018, 05:48 PM
Eh the way I see it:

Live in PHX, PHX based:
Cons
Very slim pickings on trips, few reserve guys so line holders are more likely to be reassigned, average trip credit is 4:00-4:30 per day meaning 11/12 days off per month, maybe 13/14 if youíre lucky. Every trip is delta so every day you either wake up at 4 to start your morning with FLT CTRL NO DISP or you end up waiting 2 hours for your late inbound plane. MELs, mechanical issues, upset passengers, 50% of your flights depart delayed, 75% if youíre not on the launch flights. Every turnaround is done as fast as possible.
Pros
You get to drive to work, and know your crews

Live in PHX, based in LAX
Pros
Enournous trip variety and selections. Massive amounts of open time, trip trading, even some dropping. More trips available to fit within your PBS criteria. American flying, meaning trips that go off without a hitch, depart on time, have reasonable turn times, and usually have great credit/TAFB ratios. Score 14-17 days off regularly, dropping the victory laps to make your commute easier. Tens of commutable flights every day, some on company metal with guaranteed seats, short flight.
Cons
You spend 2 hours a week commuting, and donít know the crews that well.

brocklee9000
11-09-2018, 07:24 PM
I disagree.

As a PHX based pilot I love the PHX base. I love the crews here, I don't mind the trips, even when they are unproductive, because I get to drive to work, park in the terminal parking garage, and walk a few hundred feet to the departure gate.

I love that whenever I request runway 8/26 I have only been told no once, I love that I have met and flown with almost every pilot and flight attendant in the base, and I love that I fly the E175, even when the APU, Bleeds, Seat 3C, 4D, and 20F and forward coffee pot don't work.


The best advice I have for any new hire or someone considering it here is much like BLS has said - it is what you make of it. Does it suck when the APU doesn't work? Yeah but I have that checklist memorized by heart now and life goes on. Are there pilots here that a lot of people complain about? Yeah, but I go into every trip with a positive attitude and open mind and wouldn't you know it that I get along with every pilot I have flown with so far - and that includes the LCA that a lot of guys don't like in PHX, and even the recent SEA transfer.

If you find that certain pilots on here seem to be constantly complaining and negative then you should realize that they're probably not a good source of info.

Who cares if the base doesn't make sense?! It makes a hell of a lot of sense to me because I get to drive to work and not commute time zones which others on here apparently enjoy doing.

Truthfully - the worst part about PHX is an overweight Mr. Belvudere look alike that has a **** poor attitude and wears a grey Delta vest that's two sizes too small. He refuses to smile, and takes it upon himself to be the worst gate agent at all of Delta. Nothing pleases me more than flashing the biggest **** eating grin every time I see his miserable face.

Yep. Most of you guys are pretty awesome. Hop over on any other forum and its nonstop bickering or serious attitudes about everything. We came to Phoenix so I could finish CFI, instruct, and then figure out what to do after that. My wife has decided she really likes her job and doesn't want to leave for at least a few more years, and I won't move for a regional, so we're staying here. And hey, even if Compass only has 2-3 good years left, fine by me. Worst case scenario, I take my type and 121 hours elsewhere, and my wife might agree to moving again too haha. I'm still holding out hope. There are only a few airlines I would consider: Republic (but what's the point of permanently having to commute East?), Compass (if they'll actually call me and the next class isn't half a year away...), and Skywest. And the only reasons I'm considering Skywest now is they raised their pay to a decent level, have the potential to be based in the West, and I have an interview.

Eh the way I see it:

Live in PHX, PHX based:
Cons
Very slim pickings on trips, few reserve guys so line holders are more likely to be reassigned, average trip credit is 4:00-4:30 per day meaning 11/12 days off per month, maybe 13/14 if youíre lucky. Every trip is delta so every day you either wake up at 4 to start your morning with FLT CTRL NO DISP or you end up waiting 2 hours for your late inbound plane. MELs, mechanical issues, upset passengers, 50% of your flights depart delayed, 75% if youíre not on the launch flights. Every turnaround is done as fast as possible.
Pros
You get to drive to work, and know your crews

Live in PHX, based in LAX
Pros
Enournous trip variety and selections. Massive amounts of open time, trip trading, even some dropping. More trips available to fit within your PBS criteria. American flying, meaning trips that go off without a hitch, depart on time, have reasonable turn times, and usually have great credit/TAFB ratios. Score 14-17 days off regularly, dropping the victory laps to make your commute easier. Tens of commutable flights every day, some on company metal with guaranteed seats, short flight.
Cons
You spend 2 hours a week commuting, and donít know the crews that well.

Well again, I live in Phoenix. 11-12 days off would be great. I'm pretty much doing 6-7 days a week instructing, so even when I do randomly take days off, I don't even know what to do with myself. Twelve seems to be pretty standard across any regional. If I go to Skywest, guaranteed I'll be commuting multiple states away, probably to reserve, and that takes more money out of my pocket and also pretty much eats up any days off I have between trips. It will take over a year to bid into Phoenix, just to be on reserve again. Most likely I'd have to go to DTW or ORD, and slowly work back to the West. I could maybe eventually end up in California, after months of reserve and hopping, and then commute to LAX or wherever for another half a year. So I could hold west coast before I ever could with Skywest, and I could be in Phoenix before I ever could at Skywest. And I'm more or less used to waking up early and having changing schedules due to the variety of flying I've had to do while instructing. Plus, waking up that early means I can beat the traffic and get to PHX in about 25 minutes.

AirBat
11-09-2018, 10:46 PM
You wonít be based in the west with Skywest. Theyíre Skyeast. Compass or dare I say, Horizon.

Slowhawk
11-10-2018, 05:46 AM
Gotta say Iím with week.

I commute to LAX from the east coast and my schedule/QOL is better than it was flying SEA Delta trips living in base in Seattle. Iím senior enough to stay on American in LAX though, YMMV

zondaracer
11-10-2018, 07:52 AM
You won’t be based in the west with Skywest. They’re Skyeast. Compass or dare I say, Horizon.

New hires at SkyWest are getting SFO before finishing training. FAT captain is under 3 years. Several other domiciles west of the Mississippi can be held under 3.5 years. Sure, Compass may give better seniority on the west coast in comparison, but to say that “you won’t be based in the west with SkyWest” is disingenuous.

Admittedly, PHX is super senior at SkyWest.

TyWebb
11-10-2018, 07:59 AM
A good friend of mine is on the CRJ at SW and at 10 months held SFO... not out of training but not that bad either. Are you talking about the ERJ at SFO out of training?



With that said two other friends are in the SW training pipeline and have been told to expect ORD or LGA on the ERJ. Take it for what it is worth... all third hand knowledge is suspect.

zondaracer
11-10-2018, 08:18 AM
A good friend of mine is on the CRJ at SW and at 10 months held SFO... not out of training but not that bad either. Are you talking about the ERJ at SFO out of training?



With that said two other friends are in the SW training pipeline and have been told to expect ORD or LGA on the ERJ. Take it for what it is worth... all third hand knowledge is suspect.
CRJ SFO got awarded to Oct 2018 hires. It is a moving target and goes in waves. Right now, ER7 SFO and LAX is closer to 10 months.

Without a doubt, you'll get PHX, LAX and SEA faster at Compass, but it's not impossible to get the West Coast at SkyWest, that's all I'm saying.

word302
11-10-2018, 08:43 AM
CRJ SFO got awarded to Oct 2018 hires. It is a moving target and goes in waves. Right now, ER7 SFO and LAX is closer to 10 months.

Without a doubt, you'll get PHX, LAX and SEA faster at Compass, but it's not impossible to get the West Coast at SkyWest, that's all I'm saying.

Until you upgrade.

zondaracer
11-10-2018, 09:49 AM
Until you upgrade.

Not impossible to get a sub 3.5 year upgrade on the west coast either. Not all of us are trying to get PDX.

TheFly
11-10-2018, 11:11 AM
Not impossible to get a sub 3.5 year upgrade on the west coast either. Not all of us are trying to get PDX.

He speaks the truth. New hires may get a west coast base within months or sooner, upgrades *can* be 6 months to 1.5 years.

TillerTemptress
11-10-2018, 02:16 PM
Not impossible to get a sub 3.5 year upgrade on the west coast either. Not all of us are trying to get PDX.

3.5 years for CA, over the last 10 years of the regional industry and heck, going back even further? It's awesome. But the way the industry is right now? It's pretty glacial. Horizon's upgrade very nearly went to the street. Not only that, but that is the most junior west coast base, probably in a CRJ (I don't have shiny jet syndrome, but the longer legs are certainly on the 175), and to go be the plug.
If I was a 1500 hr CFI that wanted west coast, and a quick upgrade, I'd put Horizon and Compass as my #1 and #2. Compass is obviously a bit riskier until they announce the contract renewal, but even worst case scenario, everybody will do OK in this hiring environment.

Slowhawk
11-10-2018, 06:06 PM
When did this become a OO rumors thread ?

poutine
11-10-2018, 07:06 PM
When did this become a OO rumors thread ?

When did this become a OO rumors thread ?

Exactly! Why do we need to know? RST SKW?

Okay for you OO people reference, guys here at 3.5 years marks can easily hold CA in the 30 percentile in any base. Instead of commuting LGA to sit rsv

VIRotate
11-11-2018, 11:06 AM
The only OO person allowed here is word302 because we knighted him as an honorary CP pilot a few threads back.

Nah you are all welcome in by book. I only ask for a wave as we taxi by the box in LAX.

zondaracer
11-11-2018, 11:30 AM
The only OO person allowed here is word302 because we knighted him as an honorary CP pilot a few threads back.

Nah you are all welcome in by book. I only ask for a wave as we taxi by the box in LAX.

I do the double handed wave when I see CP taxi by.

VIRotate
11-11-2018, 04:54 PM
I do the double handed wave when I see CP taxi by.

If you do a double handed wave, youíre always welcome!

Stinger6
11-12-2018, 07:37 AM
Hahaha. I love the guard banter. Funny thing is, Iíve never seen a Delta crew member do anything other than turn down the volume.

Seems like you just troll yourselves!

Ha! Our new policy is to "monitor" guard when not in range of a station. This is widely interpreted as "put 121.5 in the active freq and then turn it allll the way down."

And the only reason I'm here was the subject line "conspiracy theories" got my attention, because, Brother, I have some.

ninerdriver
11-12-2018, 07:55 AM
Ha! Our new policy is to "monitor" guard when not in range of a station. This is widely interpreted as "put 121.5 in the active freq and then turn it allll the way down."

I love it when COM1 is like "Endeavor XXXX, contact Potomac Approach on one-two-" and COM2 is suddenly like "GUARRRRRRRRRD". Love it.

VIRotate
11-12-2018, 09:05 PM
I love it when COM1 is like "Endeavor XXXX, contact Potomac Approach on one-two-" and COM2 is suddenly like "GUARRRRRRRRRD". Love it.

I heard itís a lot worse back east!

SetVap
11-13-2018, 11:00 AM
Does his name start with a P and shares the first name of a classic detective show that ran from 1957-1966?

Bingo! I can see that heís as popular with everyone as he is me.

SetVap
11-13-2018, 12:10 PM
Eh the way I see it:

Live in PHX, PHX based:
Cons
Very slim pickings on trips, few reserve guys so line holders are more likely to be reassigned, average trip credit is 4:00-4:30 per day meaning 11/12 days off per month, maybe 13/14 if youíre lucky. Every trip is delta so every day you either wake up at 4 to start your morning with FLT CTRL NO DISP or you end up waiting 2 hours for your late inbound plane. MELs, mechanical issues, upset passengers, 50% of your flights depart delayed, 75% if youíre not on the launch flights. Every turnaround is done as fast as possible.
Pros
You get to drive to work, and know your crews

Live in PHX, based in LAX
Pros
Enournous trip variety and selections. Massive amounts of open time, trip trading, even some dropping. More trips available to fit within your PBS criteria. American flying, meaning trips that go off without a hitch, depart on time, have reasonable turn times, and usually have great credit/TAFB ratios. Score 14-17 days off regularly, dropping the victory laps to make your commute easier. Tens of commutable flights every day, some on company metal with guaranteed seats, short flight.
Cons
You spend 2 hours a week commuting, and donít know the crews that well.




Although some of these may be true there are also some points on here that are a bit over dramatized.


Slim pickings in regards to trips - True, one of the downsides of a small base.


Waking up at 4am for a FLT CTRL NO DISP message is over dramatized. Half of my morning trips require the 4 am wake up for the early LAX departure and the other half I don't have to be up until 5:30 to get there in time for the SEA or SLC pushes.



Which brings me to my next point - if 50%-75% of your pushes are going late then you have a serious stroke of bad luck following you around. At least in the last 8 months the only morning delays I have taken are for GDP's into SEA, and LAX, or a WX delay into SLC. Afternoon trips do get some late inbounds but not at 50%-75%. For me it has been less than 5%



I'm not saying that there aren't maintenance issues here at all. Its out of control and something needs to be done but if 50%-75% of all of your departures are going out late then someone has it out for you.



As for the LAX flying - more trips, better paying trips, and better positioned to get more trip credits in a shorter amount of time but to come on here and sell that a commute to LAX is only an added hour each way is ludicrous. I won't factor in time spent parking and getting to the gate because that's the same for someone in base as well and although the actual wheels up to wheels down time may be an hour, lets be fair and factor in the taxi time in and out, and if the jumpseat is already reserved for the Compass flight you now have to factor in more time to try for the American, Southwest, or United flights.



And all of that is only if you were fortunate enough to bid trips that allow you to commute on both ends. If you have to commute in the day prior or commute home the day after now you're adding a bunch of time.


My point is that new hires that have no experience in this industry should n't have to sift through posts that have too much personal emotion or irritations behind it. Present solid points without over dramatizing or leaving out vital information as well.



PS- The other day in SL, Delta ramp told a Skywest guy to taxi behind company when he was referring to us. It made me smile a little bigger that day, and I still gave them the double wave as we passed because we are all pilots with the same goals in mind and it's a lot more exhausting to be a jerk than to be nice.