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View Full Version : CFI Reinstated?


jcountry
10-21-2018, 08:34 AM
Anyone had their CFI reinstated after being expired for years?

A fellow was telling me that it wasn’t a big deal.

I know it used to be a huge hassle (like starting all over with those ratings.) I think the guy is mistaken.


desertFlyer2015
10-21-2018, 08:36 AM
If it’s expired I believe you have to take the check ride again basically. I could be mistaken though.

CAirBear
10-21-2018, 08:55 AM
Anyone had their CFI reinstated after being expired for years?

A fellow was telling me that it wasn’t a big deal.

I know it used to be a huge hassle (like starting all over with those ratings.) I think the guy is mistaken.

If it has expired you are F’d. It requires you doing the entire CFI checkride again. The 3-5 hour oral, then the flying portion. All of it.

There is a reason there are so many companies, out there, that offer FIRCs lol. Even if you never planned to teach again in your life, once you have it, always keep it current every 2 years with a Flight Instructor Refresher Course.

Your only saving grace may be this. I’ve been told sometimes if you are an active 121 Captain, you can forgo FIRCs altogether and (assuming your cool with someone at the local FSDO) you can get it renewed just by visiting them. After all, 121 CA is a leadership and teaching/developing role with your FO and crew etc.

It may be a “gray area” with the Feds, but I have a buddy in town who visits the FSDO every 2 years and that’s how he renews his. I must point out, he never let his expire.

I think even as a 121 CA, if it’s expired your probably screwed. Good luck and let us know what happens!


Av8tr1
10-21-2018, 09:06 AM
If it’s expired I believe you have to take the check ride again basically. I could be mistaken though.

This is correct. It's a new check ride. FAR Part 61.199 Doesn't have to be a previous rating. A new one will suffice.

(a)Flight instructor certificates. The holder of an expired flight instructor certificate who has not complied with the flight instructor renewal requirements of § 61.197 may reinstate that flight instructor certificate and ratings by filing a completed and signed application with the FAA and satisfactorily completing one of the following reinstatement requirements:

(1) A flight instructor certification practical test, as prescribed by § 61.183(h), for one of the ratings held on the expired flight instructor certificate.

(2) A flight instructor certification practical test for an additional rating.

(3) For military instructor pilots, provide a record showing that, within the preceding 6 calendar months from the date of application for reinstatement, the person -

(i) Passed a U.S. Armed Forces instructor pilot or pilot examiner proficiency check; or

(ii) Completed a U.S. Armed Forces' instructor pilot or pilot examiner training course and received an additional aircraft rating qualification as a military instructor pilot or pilot examiner that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought.

(b)Flight instructor ratings.

(1) A flight instructor rating or a limited flight instructor rating on a pilot certificate is no longer valid and may not be exchanged for a similar rating or a flight instructor certificate.

(2) The holder of a flight instructor rating or a limited flight instructor rating on a pilot certificate may be issued a flight instructor certificate with the current ratings, but only if the person passes the required knowledge and practical test prescribed in this subpart for the issuance of the current flight instructor certificate and rating.

Name User
10-21-2018, 09:10 AM
I had an FAA guy in my jumpseat who offered to renew mine no questions asked. Previously I used American Flyers, it was $99 for unlimited renewals. I had kept mine updated for almost 15 years that way. If you let it expire you must redo a checkride. Nope, not doing that again!

It's so simple to renew, a few hours every other year, JUST DO IT!

NEDude
10-21-2018, 09:22 AM
When I got my PC check airman qualification at a previous airline, our POI re-instated mine after my qualification sim.

jcountry
10-21-2018, 10:02 AM
When I got my PC check airman qualification at a previous airline, our POI re-instated mine after my qualification sim.

This is kind of what I heard about.

I think you have to come across the right FAA guy.

Been so long since I instructed, I would be awful at it anyhow.

captjns
10-21-2018, 11:02 AM
You can engage the services of a flight school, such as American Flyers, ATP, etc. they can custom tailor a program that meets the highest level of your instructor privilege(s) you want. You can use their aircraft or yours. They have examiners on staff too.

Twin Wasp
10-21-2018, 03:07 PM
61.197, the CFI renewal reg, used to include 121 PICs. In the late 90s a big part of 61 was changed and the reference to 121 PICs was removed. It does seem some Feds never got the outdate.

Super27
10-21-2018, 03:11 PM
You can engage the services of a flight school, such as American Flyers, ATP, etc. they can custom tailor a program that meets the highest level of your instructor privilege(s) you want. You can use their aircraft or yours. They have examiners on staff too.

This is the route I would pursue. Except it doesn't have to be the "highest" level of privileges. You can take the check for any ONE of the ratings that's on your expired certificate, and ALL will be reinstated (14 CFR 61.199(a)(1)). When I let mine lapse a number of years ago, I elected to take just the CFI-A check, and my CFI-I and MEI were also reinstated.

And, while FAA inspectors can renew a CFI for a current 121/135 captain based on "duties and responsibilities" (see AC 61-65H for the full list of qualifying roles), unfortunately that provision does not apply to reinstatement.

captjns
10-21-2018, 04:30 PM
This is the route I would pursue. Except it doesn't have to be the "highest" level of privileges. You can take the check for any ONE of the ratings that's on your expired certificate, and ALL will be reinstated (14 CFR 61.199(a)(1)). When I let mine lapse a number of years ago, I elected to take just the CFI-A check, and my CFI-I and MEI were also reinstated.

And, while FAA inspectors can renew a CFI for a current 121/135 captain based on "duties and responsibilities" (see AC 61-65H for the full list of qualifying roles), unfortunately that provision does not apply to reinstatement.

Its been a while, however when I was a 121 instructor/check airman the POI would renew my CFI based on my training activity. From what I understand, the same may currently apply.

A couple of individuals in your same situation, who used a flight school for the reinstatement process. You are correct, by the way... they did it in a single and all privileges were re-instated.

Poser765
10-21-2018, 06:11 PM
If it has expired you are F’d. It requires you doing the entire CFI checkride again. The 3-5 hour oral, then the flying portion. All of it.

i know not everyone has the same experience, but I had to do a reinstatement. The entire process took about 3 hours... and that includes going out to eat with the examiner and his previous student. The actual flight was about .4 on the Hobbs.

Terrain Inop
10-21-2018, 06:15 PM
If it has expired you are F’d. It requires you doing the entire CFI checkride again. The 3-5 hour oral, then the flying portion. All of it.

There is a reason there are so many companies, out there, that offer FIRCs lol. Even if you never planned to teach again in your life, once you have it, always keep it current every 2 years with a Flight Instructor Refresher Course.

Your only saving grace may be this. I’ve been told sometimes if you are an active 121 Captain, you can forgo FIRCs altogether and (assuming your cool with someone at the local FSDO) you can get it renewed just by visiting them. After all, 121 CA is a leadership and teaching/developing role with your FO and crew etc.

It may be a “gray area” with the Feds, but I have a buddy in town who visits the FSDO every 2 years and that’s how he renews his. I must point out, he never let his expire.

I think even as a 121 CA, if it’s expired your probably screwed. Good luck and let us know what happens!

There is a bunch of misinformation in this post.

Yes, if your CFI has expired you will need to take a checkride. No, it does not have to be the entire PTS / ACS, it is at the discrestion of the examiner. Adding priveledges to your Certificate will reinstate all previously held priveledges.
Renewal based on the responsibilities of a Part 121 captain is at the discrestion of the FSDO. FIRCs are the easiest way to get it done.

rickair7777
10-21-2018, 06:30 PM
This is the route I would pursue. Except it doesn't have to be the "highest" level of privileges. You can take the check for any ONE of the ratings that's on your expired certificate, and ALL will be reinstated (14 CFR 61.199(a)(1)). When I let mine lapse a number of years ago, I elected to take just the CFI-A check, and my CFI-I and MEI were also reinstated.


This is correct you don't need to takje them all, or even the "highest" instructor rating (whatever that is). You can take the checkride for any CFI rating you held, and that will re-instate them all. CFI-I or MEI would probably be easiest.

Although if you're planing on teaching someone to fly, the CFI-A would probably be most useful to you, although that's a more involved ride.

tanker
10-21-2018, 08:37 PM
I did a CFII check ride for my reinstatement with a DPE. The oral was about an hour and consisted of going over endorsements and changes to the regulations. The flight was .8 and I did a stall, an ILS to a miss, and a Localizer to a circle to land. All while explaining to the “student” what I was doing and why. Doing that ride also reinstated my CFIA, my CFIH, and my CFIME.

freezingflyboy
10-22-2018, 09:53 AM
I had an FAA guy in my jumpseat who offered to renew mine no questions asked. Previously I used American Flyers, it was $99 for unlimited renewals. I had kept mine updated for almost 15 years that way. If you let it expire you must redo a checkride. Nope, not doing that again!

It's so simple to renew, a few hours every other year, JUST DO IT!

I gotta wonder what the resistance is on here from some about taking a checkride. We take checkrides all the time in this business that are far more complex than those in the GA world. So what's the hullabaloo about a CFI or CFII?

As for my own experience, I let my CFI lapse years ago. I did the FIRCs for years until one day realizing that if things were so bad in this industry that my only choice was to go teach stalls and turns around a point again, that I would probably just get out of aviation, at least temporarily. About the only thing that would make me want to go get reinstated would be if my kids decided they wanted to learn to fly.

rickair7777
10-22-2018, 10:31 AM
I gotta wonder what the resistance is on here from some about taking a checkride. We take checkrides all the time in this business that are far more complex than those in the GA world. So what's the hullabaloo about a CFI or CFII?

As for my own experience, I let my CFI lapse years ago. I did the FIRCs for years until one day realizing that if things were so bad in this industry that my only choice was to go teach stalls and turns around a point again, that I would probably just get out of aviation, at least temporarily. About the only thing that would make me want to go get reinstated would be if my kids decided they wanted to learn to fly.

121 checkrides are relatively consistent and the examiner is an airline guy. 91 checkrides are not, it can be a stressful PITA to prepare for, and the examiner is probably not an airline guy, and might even resent them. If you're not for-sure at your career-destination airline you don't need a recent pink slip, of any sort.

That said most of us should be able to get the right prep and identify the right examiner, although some FSDO's may not always defer to a DPE, so you might get a fed.

Name User
10-22-2018, 12:02 PM
I gotta wonder what the resistance is on here from some about taking a checkride. We take checkrides all the time in this business that are far more complex than those in the GA world. So what's the hullabaloo about a CFI or CFII?

As for my own experience, I let my CFI lapse years ago. I did the FIRCs for years until one day realizing that if things were so bad in this industry that my only choice was to go teach stalls and turns around a point again, that I would probably just get out of aviation, at least temporarily. About the only thing that would make me want to go get reinstated would be if my kids decided they wanted to learn to fly.
My reasoning wasn't to instruct in primary aircraft but if I medical'd out, a lot of the sim jobs look favorably if you have your instructor ratings.

tinman1
10-22-2018, 12:57 PM
That said most of us should be able to get the right prep and identify the right examiner, although some FSDO's may not always defer to a DPE, so you might get a fed.

I believe this was only for initial CFI applicants and that a reinstatement could be done directly with a DPE. Although as of recently that all changed and now the initial CFI is treated just like any other checkride, and the FAA has absolutely zero part of the scheduling process. The recent change is a pretty big deal for many. I know in my particular case, being on the extreme side, what should have taken only a matter days to schedule with a DPE took several months dealing with the feds being, well the feds.

https://www.flyingmag.com/faa-commits-to-new-dpe-policy-to-provide-more-pilot-examiners

rickair7777
10-22-2018, 02:04 PM
My reasoning wasn't to instruct in primary aircraft but if I medical'd out, a lot of the sim jobs look favorably if you have your instructor ratings.

That's a good point. Off the top of my head, I think you need a medical to take any checkride. Although a CFI can teach without a medical as long as the student is qualified to be PIC.

jcountry
10-22-2018, 06:34 PM
121 checkrides are relatively consistent and the examiner is an airline guy. 91 checkrides are not, it can be a stressful PITA to prepare for, and the examiner is probably not an airline guy, and might even resent them. If you're not for-sure at your career-destination airline you don't need a recent pink slip, of any sort.

That said most of us should be able to get the right prep and identify the right examiner, although some FSDO's may not always defer to a DPE, so you might get a fed.

I don’t care much about checkrides anymore. Fail one and my pulse wouldn’t even go up. WTF does it matter at this point?

That being said, your point about variability of examiners is very good.

I flew night cargo many years ago with an absolutely incredible pilot. This guy would have given Hoover himself a run for his money in terms of skill.

And some pompous little **** of a FSDO guy actually failed this man on a 135 checkout he was doing for a medivac charity operation.

God. I still remember how much that ****ed me off. I’m sure that fat little inspector retired years ago, but if there’s one person I’ll ever throat punch on sight-it’s him.



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