Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : TTOT is off


ORDinary
10-24-2018, 06:22 AM
20 minutes after 1000 ET. And they don't know when it will be turned it on, just some random time with no notice. Anyone else having an aneurysm?


R57 relay
10-24-2018, 06:43 AM
No, because I'm sick so I can't use TTOT for next month. One more punitive item.

full of luv
10-24-2018, 10:25 AM
No, because I'm sick so I can't use TTOT for next month. One more punitive item.


Wow, so if your sick your not allowed to modify your next months schedule?


PRS Guitars
10-24-2018, 11:57 AM
Wow, so if your sick your not allowed to modify your next months schedule?

Believe it or not...we can’t trade trips while we are sick. UN-F’ing-believable! Right? The union doesn’t even care, matter of fact, I think they support it.

mainlineAF
10-24-2018, 12:00 PM
I’ve heard of guys calling in sick a few hours prior to check in and then as soon as check in goes by calling in well to minimize the time you can’t trade trips.

If the company wants to use a dumb system then that’s the kind of response they’ll get.

chrisreedrules
10-24-2018, 12:19 PM
Believe it or not...we can’t trade trips while we are sick. UN-F’ing-believable! Right? The union doesn’t even care, matter of fact, I think they support it.

I feel like every month I learn about something else in the AA contract that just leaves me scratching my head.

Fly21
10-24-2018, 12:32 PM
This place sucks. Stay at PSA.......Sorry, just having a bad day, but this place does need a lot of change.

AFTrainerGuy
10-24-2018, 01:17 PM
Believe it or not...we can’t trade trips while we are sick. UN-F’ing-believable! Right? The union doesn’t even care, matter of fact, I think they support it.

Why? And why would anyone support this?

Smoke Toliet
10-24-2018, 02:30 PM
APA and some legacy AA pilots live in a alternate reality were they think they are industry leaders. Which the rest of us know they lag in just about everything. Talk to a DFW based pilot and you’ll start to understand.

Floobs
10-24-2018, 02:52 PM
We honestly should only be using TTS anyway. TTOT doesn't respect senoritas and the only way to use it effectively is to use litesaber.

jcountry
10-24-2018, 03:27 PM
I honestly didn't notice it was off.

Nothing is ever open anyhow.

What's the diff?

PRS Guitars
10-24-2018, 03:39 PM
We honestly should only be using TTS anyway. TTOT doesn't respect senoritas and the only way to use it effectively is to use litesaber.

NO, just NO. TTOT is far superior and much more flexible because you can use it at any time. Seniority is important, but it already factors into Equipment bids, your PBS schedule, PM, OG and TTS. TTOT gives everybody a fighting chance.

With that said, I use both just to maximize my chances of a trade. I encourage everyone to use both, we need the churn. I was able to pick up a nice little 2 day on the 23rd with TTS before TTOT opened. The pilot had it listed in both systems, if not I was going to text him and ask him to put it in TTS.

jcountry
10-24-2018, 03:40 PM
APA and some legacy AA pilots live in a alternate reality were they think they are industry leaders. Which the rest of us know they lag in just about everything. Talk to a DFW based pilot and you’ll start to understand.


Close.

But my theory is it's all about the widebodies. The senior widebody captains totally control APA, and they will sacrifice little things like QOL to boost their paychecks on the way out. (QOL is a non-issue for long haul intl pilots. They show up and their trip with goes, or they head back home. Nothing else matters.)

The more you think about widebodies and the type of flying they do-vs what the little domestic trolls so, the most my sense my theory makes.

PRS Guitars
10-24-2018, 03:42 PM
Why? And why would anyone support this?

Because it was in the AA “green book”. This has been the case since FOS 2 years ago for LUS guys. The rational I’ve heard is “ if you’re sick, you don’t need to trade, you can’t fly anyway”...uh, what about if I’m trading for next week or the end of the month etc.

A330FoodCritic
10-24-2018, 05:28 PM
Believe it or not...we can’t trade trips while we are sick. UN-F’ing-believable! Right? The union doesn’t even care, matter of fact, I think they support it.

Dead headed next to a new hire, I told him you youngsters need to run for offices and unscrew this union. The way things use to get done just doesn't cut it.

jcountry
10-24-2018, 05:51 PM
Dead headed next to a new hire, I told him you youngsters need to run for offices and unscrew this union. The way things use to get done just doesn't cut it.

Yes!

(I just hope we can get to some kind of tipping point. The old guard is fighting back-hard. Just look how many reps have resigned since Danny came along.)

full of luv
10-24-2018, 07:47 PM
Because it was in the AA “green book”. This has been the case since FOS 2 years ago for LUS guys. The rational I’ve heard is “ if you’re sick, you don’t need to trade, you can’t fly anyway”...uh, what about if I’m trading for next week or the end of the month etc.

But is there even another major out there that has this as policy?

I don't even see the actual benefit to the company. Doesn't seem like something that they'd care about...

Arado 234
10-24-2018, 09:30 PM
Because it was in the AA “green book”. This has been the case since FOS 2 years ago for LUS guys. The rational I’ve heard is “ if you’re sick, you don’t need to trade, you can’t fly anyway”...uh, what about if I’m trading for next week or the end of the month etc.

Not surprised. The mighty "plotter" keeps everything red anyway, and them boys from APA didn't come up with any rules about it.

Going for great!

mainlineAF
10-25-2018, 04:41 AM
I have no clue what a green trip is. All i know is “sorry no legal/qual tradable sequences found”

Sliceback
10-25-2018, 04:51 AM
Close.

But my theory is it's all about the widebodies. The senior widebody captains totally control APA, and they will sacrifice little things like QOL to boost their paychecks on the way out. (QOL is a non-issue for long haul intl pilots. They show up and their trip with goes, or they head back home. Nothing else matters.)

The more you think about widebodies and the type of flying they do-vs what the little domestic trolls so, the most my sense my theory makes.

Isn’t there only one 767 CA on the BOD? And he’s junior?

The last time I checked the BOD is overpopulated with n/b CA’s and has few, if any, junior FO’s.

Oops. LGA has a 767 CA. Two of 20??

Cheddar
10-25-2018, 04:56 AM
APA and some legacy AA pilots live in a alternate reality were they think they are industry leaders. Which the rest of us know they lag in just about everything. Talk to a DFW based pilot and you’ll start to understand.



Ummmmmmm, I’m a DFW pilot. Care to elaborate?

As for APA, ‘they’ have made many mistakes. But there’s something going on within ‘APA’ and DFW pilots in particular - 40 DFW line pilots (narrow and wide body and one CKA) just volunteered (all on days off) to sit through mind numbing (not because of the awesome volunteers - but because the contract is so F’d up) contract compliance lectures just so they can get out to the line and explain to people what exactly is in our contract... and hopefully encourage people to know just how far behind we are. There was so much interest in this class that they are having another one in Dec - so yes - even APAthetic DFW Pilots are wanting to get involved in solving this BS!

If anything , one of the most encouraging things is that a good amount of the APA contract compliance folks were 10k + seniority (including some DFW Pilots). Even the evil ‘senior’ WB folks there want a better contract for all of us. The great thing is APA (including knowledgeable line pilots) are putting the message out - I have not met one person in the last year that thinks we are industry ‘leading’ in anything. Why do you think a brand new (to include Spirit and JetBlue), hard copy of the contract comparison was sent to EVERYONE?!? Because the sinister APA insiders thought we were the best?!?

So, please - stop being part of the company’s solution. Like it or not, we are APA, and we are all in this together. So can we please start understanding that and get our collective s#t together before Jan? Write your rep and ask how you can get involved. Spam the NC email account, send soundoffs...

Or just complain about your fellow pilots because they’re in a different base...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Andrew_VT
10-25-2018, 05:14 AM
Or just complain about your fellow pilots because they’re in a different base...

Oh please Mr. High and Mighty

For years now when LUS or LAW or a Regional pilot would mention how much better their contract was, LAA guys would get all defensive.

"If you don't like the AA way then give me your pay raise"

"You're free to go back to your Regional at any time."

So now after almost 4 years you guys are coming around... That's good news.

Name User
10-25-2018, 05:24 AM
Oh please Mr. High and Mighty

For years now when LUS or LAW or a Regional pilot would mention how much better their contract was, LAA guys would get all defensive.

"If you don't like the AA way then give me your pay raise"

"You're free to go back to your Regional at any time."

So now after almost 4 years you guys are coming around... That's good news.

I was hired on the LUS side. Had the merger not happened my hourly would be $75. For those of us who could upgrade to A320 Capt you'd be making under $120/hr.

My first year at Airways I made $30k. That was roughly 11 months. My last month, in January, on an RJ I made $15k!

Oh wait, reserves got DH pay over guarantee! Sweet! And you had a two day bidsheet.

But, no sequence protection. That saved me around nine hours on the last trip alone.

The contract language isn't great but just think how many days you'd have to work to make what you make now. I'll do around $180k this year not including my 16%. And I've only been here a few years.

It seems like it's mostly the 3rd listers on the LUS side complaining. But almost all of them never expected to make the LUS wages, remember the merger was announced in Jan 2013. My guess is, had the merger not happened, most of us would've either turned down the job or quickly refreshed our apps at Delta or United. Or even AA.

After flying out of DFW now I had no idea how bad the US bases were. I went through Philly the other day. What a hole.

Cheddar
10-25-2018, 05:29 AM
Oh please Mr. High and Mighty



For years now when LUS or LAW or a Regional pilot would mention how much better their contract was, LAA guys would get all defensive.



"If you don't like the AA way then give me your pay raise"



"You're free to go back to your Regional at any time."



So now after almost 4 years you guys are coming around... That's good news.


I’m a 2014 hire. Take it somewhere else. We’re on the same team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

R57 relay
10-25-2018, 05:37 AM
I was hired on the LUS side. Had the merger not happened my hourly would be $75. For those of us who could upgrade to A320 Capt you'd be making under $120/hr.

My first year at Airways I made $30k. That was roughly 11 months. My last month, in January, on an RJ I made $15k!

Oh wait, reserves got DH pay over guarantee! Sweet! And you had a two day bidsheet.

But, no sequence protection. That saved me around nine hours on the last trip alone.

The contract language isn't great but just think how many days you'd have to work to make what you make now. I'll do around $180k this year not including my 16%. And I've only been here a few years.

It seems like it's mostly the 3rd listers on the LUS side complaining. But almost all of them never expected to make the LUS wages, remember the merger was announced in Jan 2013. My guess is, had the merger not happened, most of us would've either turned down the job or quickly refreshed our apps at Delta or United. Or even AA.

After flying out of DFW now I had no idea how bad the US bases were. I went through Philly the other day. What a hole.

I think it's human nature to remember the good things from the past and forget the bad. This is my fourth merger and it has been that way for them all.

It's just hard to understand how some of this stuff ever got in there. The bankruptcy hammer explains a lot, just as it did at US with LOA 93. You speak about the pay rates that came with it, but the company bent us over on so many other things. But did all these things come from AA's Chapter 11?

I used the word punitive on American Voice. Here are some examples:

-No TTOT while sick
-Loss of premium pay if you call in sick for that month
-Recovery obligation that goes way beyond footprint
-No limit on reschedule
-Red/redder

Maybe LAA guys can help us LUS guys understand some of this stuff.

Andrew_VT
10-25-2018, 05:47 AM
I’m a 2014 hire. Take it somewhere else. We’re on the same team.

So someone says "APA and some legacy AA pilots live in a alternate reality were they think they are industry leaders"

(Objectively true statement)

and because you are based in DFW you got defensive over this? How about just acknowledging that it's the old mentality, and that we're all glad it's on the way out.

Edit: I'd like to add that this topic isn't just a pointless rehash of history.

President DC is pushing for a "quick and easy win" over the wishes of the negotiating committee. People that think that our contract "isn't that bad" could agree with that course of action easier than those that already know about much better contract language elsewhere.

Cheddar
10-25-2018, 07:04 AM
So someone says "APA and some legacy AA pilots live in a alternate reality were they think they are industry leaders"



(Objectively true statement)



and because you are based in DFW you got defensive over this? How about just acknowledging that it's the old mentality, and that we're all glad it's on the way out.



Edit: I'd like to add that this topic isn't just a pointless rehash of history.



President DC is pushing for a "quick and easy win" over the wishes of the negotiating committee. People that think that our contract "isn't that bad" could agree with that course of action easier than those that already know about much better contract language elsewhere.



I’m trying to say that there is a lot of good going on right now, EVEN within APA, and the ‘master base.’

And your ‘objectively true’ statement about “APA” isn’t true. I don’t know DC - and didn’t vote for him - but everyone in APA that I’ve met, including the DFW reps - are against a quick fix.

Since this isn’t a pointless rehash of history, go do some simple research and look at JCBA voting by base - it might surprise you that DFW wasn’t in the leader in voting for this POS contract. But guess what, a majority of ALL combined groups voted for a raise very ambiguous work rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Andrew_VT
10-25-2018, 07:12 AM
And your ‘objectively true’ statement about “APA” isn’t true. I don’t know DC - and didn’t vote for him - but everyone in APA that I’ve met, including the DFW reps - are against a quick fix.

I agree with you on everything except for this. This is what you want to be true, not what is actually true.

Talk to a negotiating committee member. Talk to a committee member that has been 'purged' by DC.

Andrew_VT
10-25-2018, 07:22 AM
Had the merger not happened my hourly would be $75. For those of us who could upgrade to A320 Capt you'd be making under $120/hr.

My first year at Airways I made $30k.

And what does that have to do with pilots that think our current contract language is perfectly acceptable?

People use this kind of talk to shut down those that want QOL improvements. They don't want to hear what's in other pilot contracts. That's what my two example quotes we're about... "If you don't like our contract then give me your pay raise"

Are you one of those people? (I know you're not)

Cheddar
10-25-2018, 08:04 AM
I agree with you on everything except for this. This is what you want to be true, not what is actually true.



Talk to a negotiating committee member. Talk to a committee member that has been 'purged' by DC.



Again, the people I have met... not everyone is a DC acolyte, and I’m not sure he’s in the majority.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

seafeye
10-25-2018, 09:47 AM
What’s the deal with red or redder? I have a trip that I’d like to swap for something else but keep getting blocked. If I trade my 4 day for another 4 day. What does the company care? Why is my trip more red? They have to cover both trips either way.

OVBIII
10-25-2018, 10:26 AM
What’s the deal with red or redder? I have a trip that I’d like to swap for something else but keep getting blocked. If I trade my 4 day for another 4 day. What does the company care? Why is my trip more red? They have to cover both trips either way.
I’ve wondered that myself. Of all my sound offs I have sent, I sent one pertaining to this very issue. I want our red/redder fixed. It’s confusing to my pea sized pilot brain

Sliceback
10-25-2018, 04:30 PM
What’s the deal with red or redder? I have a trip that I’d like to swap for something else but keep getting blocked. If I trade my 4 day for another 4 day. What does the company care? Why is my trip more red? They have to cover both trips either way.

Is it the same day? You’d think that would go through.

full of luv
10-25-2018, 10:01 PM
What’s the deal with red or redder? I have a trip that I’d like to swap for something else but keep getting blocked. If I trade my 4 day for another 4 day. What does the company care? Why is my trip more red? They have to cover both trips either way.


That does seem unnecessarily punitive. Never heard of another major with that either....


Sounds like y'all have a nice list of low hanging fruit to fix, but really none of that even costs the company money, just designed to punish for some reason.

Arado 234
10-25-2018, 11:33 PM
That does seem unnecessarily punitive. Never heard of another major with that either....


Sounds like y'all have a nice list of low hanging fruit to fix, but really none of that even costs the company money, just designed to punish for some reason.

I wonder whether the red redder reddest bs is payback for last year.

Cheddar
10-26-2018, 01:38 AM
It is all about control and trust. The crew scheduling part of the company doesn’t trust us. Period. Dot. Full stop.

FUPM




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

seafeye
10-27-2018, 08:37 AM
Tried a different trade. Got this:


DIVISION EXPIRED - NEEDS DIVISION QUAL
CAN NOT TRADE POSITIONS
?ENTIRE TRANSACTION IGNORED?

OVBIII
10-27-2018, 10:07 AM
Tried a different trade. Got this:

Are you I or D? And are trying to trade into opposite division. While I know it will give you a different notice when trying to trade opposite division, I’m just trying to figure out why you’d get that particular notification

Covfefe
10-27-2018, 10:39 AM
I wonder whether the red redder reddest bs is payback for last year.

Well, something is certainly up... last spring I was able to swap around trips to decent 3 days, weekends/days I want off and a decent credit... June comes along and everything is “redder” and I can’t trade a single trip. When bids come out, that’s what I’m stuck with unless I call in sick. This is CLT/320.

Thedude
10-27-2018, 01:35 PM
Well, something is certainly up... last spring I was able to swap around trips to decent 3 days, weekends/days I want off and a decent credit... June comes along and everything is “redder” and I can’t trade a single trip. When bids come out, that’s what I’m stuck with unless I call in sick. This is CLT/320.

I feel your pain.
The puppets of crew sked fail to realize this is actually costing them in the long run. If a guy(girl) really needs some time off to do something, they will find a way even if they cannot trade out of it.

Arado 234
10-27-2018, 05:25 PM
Well, something is certainly up... last spring I was able to swap around trips to decent 3 days, weekends/days I want off and a decent credit... June comes along and everything is “redder” and I can’t trade a single trip. When bids come out, that’s what I’m stuck with unless I call in sick. This is CLT/320.


Don't use your sick time. Come up with some bs story and walk into the CPs office with your hat on (LAA base except MIA)/off (LUS base). Get EO and pick up open time/drop requests.

seafeye
10-27-2018, 06:23 PM
Are you I or D? And are trying to trade into opposite division. While I know it will give you a different notice when trying to trade opposite division, I’m just trying to figure out why you’d get that particular notification


I’m “I”.

My medical does expire end of Nov

PRS Guitars
10-27-2018, 07:30 PM
I’m “I”.

My medical does expire end of Nov

It’s not the medical. Mine expires on Oct 31st (well it did until I updated it yesterday). I made multiple Nov trades prior to updating.

OVBIII
10-28-2018, 04:02 AM
I’m “I”.

My medical does expire end of Nov

I am at a loss man, I haven't a clue as to why you'd get that notification.



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1