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crxpilot
10-24-2018, 06:26 PM
I read a lot of humming and hawing when the investors inquired about fleet projection for 2019:

Unknown Speaker

Hi. This is actually Matt (00:23:08) on for Brandon. So I was just hoping you could quickly remind us, as you receive the final aircraft and taking the MD-80s out of the fleet, what kind of overhang and pilot training or any other expenses is still kind of related and kind of lingering related to the transition?

D. Scott Sheldon - Allegiant Travel Co.

Yeah. Hi. This is Scott. Yeah, if you look at the number of MD-80 shells (00:23:36), there will be some folks that will be going through training to be available for the March peak. And if you kind of back into any sort of pilot per aircraft metric back to when we had a single fleet type adjusted for the new 117 rules, you could come to a number where you're carrying $30 million to $35 million in excess labor as we grow into it over the next couple years.

And so, it's pretty substantial as far as the actual training events. Everything then is on a scheduled cadence because everyone will be trained on the same fleet type.

Unknown Speaker

Okay. And so, that kind of comes down through the next year or so or what's the timing on that?

D. Scott Sheldon - Allegiant Travel Co.

Yeah, so we bottom obviously at the end of the year. I think we have, in the release, 76 frames. And I think we're growing upwards of 12 to 13 frames next year. And so, you start to gain some of that efficiency back from a single fleet type perspective.

.......

Savanthi N. Syth - Raymond James & Associates, Inc.

Hey, I just had a quick follow-up. On the fleet – I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand. So what do you expect the fleet – I know you've had a few aircraft split from this year to next year, what do you expect to end your 2019? Are you still like thinking of roughly at 100 aircrafts or what should we expect there?

Gregory C. Anderson - Allegiant Travel Co.

Yeah, I mean, that's what we put out there probably. I mean we've seen some delays as we talked about in the last earnings call. I think by 2019, I mean, we're still expecting that number, Savi. But in – when we give our guidance for 2019, there may be some puts and takes on that a little bit.


LoFly
10-24-2018, 06:55 PM
I think by 2019, I mean, we're still expecting that number, Savi. But in – when we give our guidance for 2019, there may be some puts and takes on that a little bit.

I've gotta say this last one got me, the stagnation is getting real :(

ecam
10-25-2018, 07:08 AM
I guess some people don't believe anything until they hear it for themselves. If your in the bottom half of this seniority list you better update your stuff. This is looking to get ugly. We are only just now beginning to see the end of the current economic boom. The bottom will be a long way off. This airline is already showing signs of sagging, I can't imagine what it will look like 3 years from now. This is not 2008 we are a very different company now with massive overhead and massive debt. We are already running out of creditors willing to invest in this. It's not looking good going forward. This isn't just one more sky is falling post. It's a wake up call. And those of you who aren't worried because you were here in 2008 and think your so senior it won't effect you you better start learning the FO flows.


G4er
10-25-2018, 08:52 AM
Do you work here?:)
PF
PNF
On the AB

9easy
10-25-2018, 09:57 AM
Based on Scotts comment, they view us roughly ~150 pilots overstaffed.

LoFly
10-25-2018, 11:47 AM
Based on Scotts comment, they view us roughly ~150 pilots overstaffed.
I don't think (hope) they'll furlough tho. Can you imagine kicking 100+ pilots out when pretty much every single airline on the planet is planning to keep hiring for the next two decades?

CAirBear
10-25-2018, 03:20 PM
I don't think (hope) they'll furlough tho. Can you imagine kicking 100+ pilots out when pretty much every single airline on the planet is planning to keep hiring for the next two decades?

A CA I flew with recently has a theory. He thinks this is why the are all of a sudden being complete dick heads now about every single thing you can imagine (think the “no show” policy they tried to implement).

Basically, he thinks they would like to furlough, but aren’t yet. However, by now being a-holes about everything it will start to drive some people away.

Pretty weak if this is the case and I certainly can’t say it would surprise me if this is their “game plan”.

Vegaspilot
10-25-2018, 04:39 PM
A CA I flew with recently has a theory. He thinks this is why the are all of a sudden being complete dick heads now about every single thing you can imagine (think the “no show” policy they tried to implement).



Basically, he thinks they would like to furlough, but aren’t yet. However, by now being a-holes about everything it will start to drive some people away.



Pretty weak if this is the case and I certainly can’t say it would surprise me if this is their “game plan”.



It’s working. You combine that with their complete loss of focus on the airline and all the side things they are trying and I know quite a few guys who were “lifers” that are polishing their resumes and sending out apps. I mean the #2 guy here decided to retire rather than deal with it from what I’ve been told.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dutch rudder
10-26-2018, 04:25 AM
If anyone makes a career decision based on the information in this thread, they are foolish.

Everyone needs to relax. We had a few hang-ups with aircraft deliveries and we have fewer planes than expected, thus we are overstaffed. But this doesn’t mean the company doesn’t want to grow the airline! Sheldon even said 12-13 frames next year. We need pilots to make that happen.

wilco811
10-26-2018, 05:54 AM
MG said a few months ago that no furloughs. So don’t worry.

Flight Deck Ape
10-26-2018, 07:26 AM
The thing that I find consistently troubling at Allegiant is the level of pilot hating. IMHO someone in management has flipped a switch and told other labor groups (mostly crew services) to start acting hostile towards the pilot group. I am sure this, at least in part, is related to the ongoing PBS issue with the union.

If I were a true outsider looking inward at Allegiant I would see an airline that has been consistently profitable quarter after quarter for many years in a row and think to myself “Gee, all those employees from the top down must be back slapping and high fiving each other every day because they are proud of what they have built and everyone is sharing in the success.”

Instead, as an insider, I see the kinds of things that happen to an airline that is in financial peril where labor groups start getting pitted against one another and the company starts looking for (or creating) any reason to thin the herd.

I simply cannot rationalize what is going on here and that is what concerns me.

argentina21
10-26-2018, 08:17 AM
If anyone makes a career decision based on the information in this thread, they are foolish.

Everyone needs to relax. We had a few hang-ups with aircraft deliveries and we have fewer planes than expected, thus we are overstaffed. But this doesn’t mean the company doesn’t want to grow the airline! Sheldon even said 12-13 frames next year. We need pilots to make that happen.

Hear, hear!

tom11011
10-26-2018, 12:49 PM
Based on Scotts comment, they view us roughly ~150 pilots overstaffed.


Well we are overstaffed. Let's do the math.

Current seniority list is 887 pilots.

By the end of the year, we will be down to 76 airframes.

From Investor Day 2017, company is on record stating their goal is to be able to reduce down to 7.6 pilots per airplane in 2020, which they believe is the "normalized level" which is hard to imagine. They forecast 9.8 for 2018.

So even by 2018 forecast standards we are overstaffed by 142 pilots as the last MD80 leaves the property next month. By 2020 standards, assuming there was no net increase in aircraft (which we know will not be true), we would be overstaffed by 309 pilots.

Let's add in the hopeful 13 aircraft for 2019. If we were to split the pilots per aircraft today vs. projected 2020, we could split the difference and call it 8.7. We would still be overstaffed by 112.

One thing these numbers do not take into account though is that as far as I know everyone in the training department is also on the seniority list.

Its hard to imagine any hiring at all in 2019.

Desert Sky
10-26-2018, 01:52 PM
Well we are overstaffed. Let's do the math.

Current seniority list is 887 pilots.

By the end of the year, we will be down to 76 airframes.

From Investor Day 2017, company is on record stating their goal is to be able to reduce down to 7.6 pilots per airplane in 2020, which they believe is the "normalized level" which is hard to imagine. They forecast 9.8 for 2018.

So even by 2018 forecast standards we are overstaffed by 142 pilots as the last MD80 leaves the property next month. By 2020 standards, assuming there was no net increase in aircraft (which we know will not be true), we would be overstaffed by 309 pilots.

Let's add in the hopeful 13 aircraft for 2019. If we were to split the pilots per aircraft today vs. projected 2020, we could split the difference and call it 8.7. We would still be overstaffed by 112.

One thing these numbers do not take into account though is that as far as I know everyone in the training department is also on the seniority list.

Its hard to imagine any hiring at all in 2019.



By 2020 the stated goal is 100 a/c total fleet.

CAirBear
10-26-2018, 02:14 PM
By 2020 the stated goal is 100 a/c total fleet.

And awhile back we were supposed to be almost 100 by the end of 2019.That is why then saying 12-13 planes next year isn’t really that great of news.

It’s getting us back to the number we were at, before the transition. Basically.

jegermeister
10-28-2018, 07:10 AM
And awhile back we were supposed to be almost 100 by the end of 2019.That is why then saying 12-13 planes next year isn’t really that great of news.

It’s getting us back to the number we were at, before the transition. Basically.




Maybe I'm missing something. Isn't 100 airplanes by 2020 saying the same thing as, 100 airplanes by the end of 2019?


The numbers we have now are over inflated. The ramp in SFB looks a bone yard with all of the MD-80's sitting.


Utilization of the Airbus is also much higher than the MD-80's that they are replacing. I can see us doing the same flying next year with a smaller fleet.


I'm not worried yet. I would have liked to see more growth, but I think they are carefully growing the network. 18 month upgrades are gone for now, but no one should have ever assumed they would become the norm. I'll take slow growth and our balance sheet over what Spirit is doing.

NoCheesePlates
10-28-2018, 12:11 PM
I'll take slow growth and our balance sheet over what Spirit is doing.

Yeah, brand new planes showing up every two weeks, exploding expansion, no stagnation on the seniority list, QOL, $$$, a billion in cash in the bank who'd want that?

If Spirit was building a family fun center with go-karts, frozen pizza and laser tag would that suit you better? Asking for a friend.

godsgift2aviatn
10-28-2018, 02:28 PM
I'll take slow growth and our balance sheet over what Spirit is doing.

What exactly is it about the Spirit plan you find so objectionable?

akulahunter
10-28-2018, 10:37 PM
Seriously, guys... I can see how the stagnation is a pain in the ass and that having 6 fewer frames than we projected this year sucks as well... However, don't confuse losing a few frames to a higher bidder with losing money as a business...

We are printing money... Q3 revenue up 11% from last year, and yes I have a business background, I know that we took a hit this year in operating income (thanks VPS, MD-80 acceleration and a few other "one time" events), but we are still up in net income over last year. We're growing over 10% this year and are expected to keep at least that growth rate for 2019. The "business" is not in jeopardy...

If you are concerned, wait until January. The company is supposed to put out full year 2019, expectations for both the airline and non-airline side of the business (separately), with their January filing. If they don't show any significant growth following the transition, feel free to discuss it then. For now, there is no reason to think there is an issue with the business...

However, IF there were... What's more likely? Shutting the doors or spinning the airline off and sold? Integration is better than starting at the bottom...

Bugaboo
11-24-2018, 02:37 PM
Seriously, guys... I can see how the stagnation is a pain in the ass and that having 6 fewer frames than we projected this year sucks as well... However, don't confuse losing a few frames to a higher bidder with losing money as a business...

We are printing money... Q3 revenue up 11% from last year, and yes I have a business background, I know that we took a hit this year in operating income (thanks VPS, MD-80 acceleration and a few other "one time" events), but we are still up in net income over last year. We're growing over 10% this year and are expected to keep at least that growth rate for 2019. The "business" is not in jeopardy...

If you are concerned, wait until January. The company is supposed to put out full year 2019, expectations for both the airline and non-airline side of the business (separately), with their January filing. If they don't show any significant growth following the transition, feel free to discuss it then. For now, there is no reason to think there is an issue with the business...

However, IF there were... What's more likely? Shutting the doors or spinning the airline off and sold? Integration is better than starting at the bottom...
Alaska Execs were in Summerlin last week looking to offload some Airbi

tom11011
11-24-2018, 03:14 PM
Alaska Execs were in Summerlin last week looking to offload some Airbi


I think we have been hoping for that. When is your transition to 737 complete? How many Airbus do you have?

Bugaboo
11-24-2018, 05:03 PM
I think we have been hoping for that. When is your transition to 737 complete? How many Airbus do you have?
As far as I know Alaska has put no timeline on transitioning to an all Boeing fleet. I understand they “officially” have not made a decision as to whether or not they will do that. Im sure behind closed doors they know an exact plan....just not coming public with it.
There are almost 70 Airbus that came with Virgin America. A mix of 319s, 320s, and 321 NEOs. Mostly 320s.

CAirBear
11-24-2018, 07:14 PM
As far as I know Alaska has put no timeline on transitioning to an all Boeing fleet. I understand they “officially” have not made a decision as to whether or not they will do that. Im sure behind closed doors they know an exact plan....just not coming public with it.
There are almost 70 Airbus that came with Virgin America. A mix of 319s, 320s, and 321 NEOs. Mostly 320s.

A buddy of mine, who’s on the Virgin side, said they were told many times they are not planning on doing anything with them for 6 years. Almost all are retrofitted to the Alaskan interiors now. Obviously things can change. Lord knows we can use some.

I do know the NEO or LRs they have, are kicking serious ass against their beloved 73s in fuel efficiency and savings.

akulahunter
11-24-2018, 08:08 PM
Alaska Execs were in Summerlin last week looking to offload some Airbi

Why would they come here instead of UAL? (Unless we are gonna buy Sun Country and trade 73s for Airbii)

Bugaboo
11-24-2018, 09:13 PM
A buddy of mine, who’s on the Virgin side, said they were told many times they are not planning on doing anything with them for 6 years. Almost all are retrofitted to the Alaskan interiors now. Obviously things can change. Lord knows we can use some.

I do know the NEO or LRs they have, are kicking serious ass against their beloved 73s in fuel efficiency and savings.
Almost all? How bout 1.

JustWatching
11-25-2018, 06:59 AM
Alaska Execs were in Summerlin last week looking to offload some Airbi

They’ve been trying for a while. Those jets (as told by Jude anyhow) were way too expensive.

Macjet
11-25-2018, 07:19 AM
I do know the NEO or LRs they have, are kicking serious ass against their beloved 73s in fuel efficiency and savings.

And modernization, cockpit comfort, cabin comfort, packs that actually work, etc....

Vegaspilot
11-25-2018, 08:23 AM
They’ve been trying for a while. Those jets (as told by Jude anyhow) were way too expensive.



With the market seeming to dry up, they’re gonna have to pay up if they want airframes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ecam
11-25-2018, 10:54 AM
Summerlin is shopping but not buying. Yet. Word is the price AS wants is still too high. In reality they are hoping 20 more will pop up in a jungle somewhere before they have to act. I bet its way more likely United buys the AS AB and we get UA worn out ones at a price point G4 are willing to pay.

I do like the revival of the Sun Country rumor though. That's an interesting twist to swap planes for planes.

labbats
11-25-2018, 11:27 AM
Why would anyone in their right mind want a Sun Country merger?

ecam
11-25-2018, 11:44 AM
Why would anyone in their right mind want a Sun Country merger?

Maybe to get back a boss who knows how to and wants to run an airline? Who wants to buy airplanes not go karts.

j3cub
11-25-2018, 01:10 PM
Um, just a guess but:

1) Mexico and Caribbean
2) Similar routes, but through MSP
3) Jude

labbats
11-25-2018, 01:44 PM
We can do Mexico and Carribean without a merger. We already do.

Do you want overnights and red eyes to happen sooner rather than later?

Think of the costs to transition all of them to Airbus... after we just finished transitioning ourselves. Awful

We all like Jude but he’s not a reason to merge.

Releasemaster
11-25-2018, 03:48 PM
Red eyes are already happening. There are more slated to happen next year.

Also, flag flying isn't going to happen as long as AIS can't convert foreign currency to USD and vice versa. This seems to be an issue with little promise of resolution.

crxpilot
11-25-2018, 04:25 PM
Red eyes are already happening. There are more slated to happen next year.

Also, flag flying isn't going to happen as long as AIS can't convert foreign currency to USD and vice versa. This seems to be an issue with little promise of resolution.


Wheres Nick Burns when you need him?

https://66.media.tumblr.com/7658b5233db7fc550363224b5035e16f/tumblr_n1l34dEcam1tskh93o2_250.gif

akulahunter
11-25-2018, 06:17 PM
Why would anyone in their right mind want a Sun Country merger?

NO one should WANT one, that doesn't mean there won't be one...

PNWFlyer
11-26-2018, 06:01 AM
I do know the NEO or LRs they have, are kicking serious ass against their beloved 73s in fuel efficiency and savings.

You do know? Well which is it the NEOs or the LRs?

Since I work there, I do know they (NEOs) are not.

We only have 8, have not had them that long, and if there was any savings (which there isn't) they would be gobbled up by the horrible lease rates we have.... Which is why we are trying to transfer them to you.

ecam
11-26-2018, 06:20 AM
We can do Mexico and Carribean without a merger. We already do.

Do you want overnights and red eyes to happen sooner rather than later?

Think of the costs to transition all of them to Airbus... after we just finished transitioning ourselves. Awful

We all like Jude but he’s not a reason to merge.

We do Mexico and the Caribbean as capacity charter for vacation companies. Not selling seats under our own code. So no we don't already go there.

I don't think we are actually merging with SY but if we did, the bean counters would justify all the merger and transition costs with 'operational synergies". Like they do in every other merger. Otherwise Alaska would never have bought Virgin.

Jude is an airline guy who understands the airline business. It's more obvious every day that he left because he saw Sunseeker and G4CE as the asinine distractions nearly every investor is calling them out for. It would be good for all of us as pilots to get this anchor off our necks and focus on being run as an airline again. Anybody who doesn't think Maury and his buddies have lost interest in the airline side are fooling themselves or not paying attention. The airline is shrinking and all management can talk about is hotels and go karts. The next 6 months will tell the story. If there is not a big airplane acquisition announcement I predict people will start beating the door down and the airline will begin to collapse. Look for a private equity buyout after that when the stock price falls to a predetermined trigger point.

Vegaspilot
11-26-2018, 06:34 AM
...Jude is an airline guy who understands the airline business. It's more obvious every day that he left because he saw Sunseeker and G4CE as the asinine distractions nearly every investor is calling them out for. It would be good for all of us as pilots to get this anchor off our necks and focus on being run as an airline again. Anybody who doesn't think Maury and his buddies have lost interest in the airline side are fooling themselves or not paying attention. The airline is shrinking and all management can talk about is hotels and go karts. The next 6 months will tell the story. If there is not a big airplane acquisition announcement I predict people will start beating the door down and the airline will begin to collapse. Look for a private equity buyout after that when the stock price falls to a predetermined trigger point.


This 100%......




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dawgdriver
11-26-2018, 07:02 AM
Jude is an airline guy who understands the airline business. It's more obvious every day that he left because he saw Sunseeker and G4CE as the asinine distractions nearly every investor is calling them out for. It would be good for all of us as pilots to get this anchor off our necks and focus on being run as an airline again. Anybody who doesn't think Maury and his buddies have lost interest in the airline side are fooling themselves or not paying attention. The airline is shrinking and all management can talk about is hotels and go karts. The next 6 months will tell the story. If there is not a big airplane acquisition announcement I predict people will start beating the door down and the airline will begin to collapse. Look for a private equity buyout after that when the stock price falls to a predetermined trigger point.

This analyst appears to agree

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/budget-airline-diversifying-just-losing-165000398.html

Desert Sky
11-28-2018, 09:25 PM
You guys are hilarious with this doom and gloom BS. Fast forward 12 months from now and the company will still be in a successful position and you guys will still be doing chicken little impressions.

dutch rudder
11-30-2018, 05:28 AM
You guys are hilarious with this doom and gloom BS. Fast forward 12 months from now and the company will still be in a successful position and you guys will still be doing chicken little impressions.

Yes, thank you! Same guys, same BS. Entertaining at times, but getting old.

Flightaware
12-01-2018, 05:38 AM
Why would anyone in their right mind want a Sun Country merger?

How bout the fact that they’re small and would fit in well with our business model, very few displacements for us or changes to our culture... oh yeah, we get to negotiate a new JCBA too.

disco inferno
12-01-2018, 08:03 AM
How bout the fact that they’re small and would fit in well with our business model, very few displacements for us or changes to our culture... oh yeah, we get to negotiate a new JCBA too.
I wouldn't bet on a Sun Country merger. I'm not sure who would want to merge with us. We're too different in regards to our business model compared to other airlines. I've been wrong many times before though.

crxpilot
12-01-2018, 09:41 AM
I wouldn't bet on a Sun Country merger. I'm not sure who would want to merge with us. We're too different in regards to our business model compared to other airlines. I've been wrong many times before though.

Nobody cares about business models. It’s all about the planes and somebody to fly them.

disco inferno
12-01-2018, 09:46 AM
Nobody cares about business models. It’s all about the planes and somebody to fly them.
I hope you're right and I'm wrong then.

tyler durden
12-02-2018, 08:26 AM
You guys are hilarious with this doom and gloom BS. Fast forward 12 months from now and the company will still be in a successful position and you guys will still be doing chicken little impressions.

Hopefully...

But for the sake of discussion, let's remove the emotion and crystal ball. On one hand, G4 has a good business plan with a strong balance sheet and its reasonable to assume it will likely continue to profit so long as the economy cooperates. That said, competition being the living room couch, if discretionary spending dries up due to cyclical economic contractions we can no longer just park the cheap MD-80s and time will tell how the 'new and improved' airline weathers the inevitable next storm. The economy has been on a tear for 10 years and it's possible, some say probable, that we will see a dip--even a recession, sometime in the next couple years. The degree and timeline may be up for discussion but the possibility is not; it will happen eventually. Allegiant survived the 2008 crash due to a lean business model that included very little debt and low fix costs. Fast forward to today and G4 has modern equipment, mature labor contracts, less flexibility and a LOT more overhead. Not exactly the nimble days of old.

While diversification mitigates risk, debt investment creates exposure. A $1B resort, originally announced as condos to be financed up front by owner-occupants at $600K - $1.1M a piece, mysteriously became a hotel resort, yet to be paid for. That's a lot of overhead if rooms go unfilled and, when added to other unrelated ventures such as G4CE, it causes investor angst and the market cap hovers around half of it's august 2015 peak while SAVE, LUV, UAL, DAL stock have seen increases of 30%-40% during the same period.

No one gave Allegiant much hope when it started so who knows. Everyone hopes the (former hotel exec) CEO sees what industry analysts don't and is able to avoid the pitfalls of diversification other airlines have suffered in the past. In the meantime, I wouldn't go tossing my entire 401k into ALGT stock.

2 cents from a genus pallet financical anal-ist

KC135
12-02-2018, 12:40 PM
The budget is $420m not a billion. To put that in perspective there is currently more cash on hand than the total budget, although financing will most likely be used. High utilization is not a requirement since CASM is still low and most airbus acquisition cost were a small fraction of the $100 million dollar new price. Enough can be parked while still turning a profit should the economy call for it. Also, the 2015 peak price was after an 85% run up exactly 1 year before, would be fair to mention that.

tyler durden
12-02-2018, 05:14 PM
The budget is $420m not a billion. To put that in perspective there is currently more cash on hand than the total budget, although financing will most likely be used. High utilization is not a requirement since CASM is still low and most airbus acquisition cost were a small fraction of the $100 million dollar new price. Enough can be parked while still turning a profit should the economy call for it. Also, the 2015 peak price was after an 85% run up exactly 1 year before, would be fair to mention that.

Agreed, the current budget is $420M (not trying to be unfair). The $1B mentioned was the cost figure mentioned during the original unveiling of what was to be a condominium resort financed upfront by prospective owners. Whatever the cost, that plan later changed to a hotel resort, presumably due to a lack of investment interest. The reported figures since then have varied between $650M, then $600, now $420M. Budgets are merely estimates and it's anyone's guess what the final tab will be, especially given the circumstances surrounding the construction. The key difference being that paid-for condos carry far less financial liability than a hotel resort that must maintain occupancy rates to pay for itself.

The reason they're not paying for it out of cash is due to the relatively cheap cost of borrowing, but more importantly the industry's harsh penalties of not ensuring ample cash on hand. If Allegiant were forced to pay the cost in cash, it would find its balance sheet in a very precarious position.

Not looking for a pi$$ing contest or claiming the sky is falling, but having many uniforms in my closet, I'm not deluding myself that it's all rainbows and ice cream either. CASM can change quickly (when oil hit $238/BBL a leaner G4 barely eaked out a profit) and in a recession, leisure travel is discretionary. As with any business plan, there's always risk involved and time will tell. I'm not the only one concerned, but unlike this analyst, I actually care about the outcome.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/budget-airline-diversifying-just-losing-165000398.html

Releasemaster
12-05-2018, 06:53 PM
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/lawsuit-filed-against-las-vegas-based-allegiant-for-safety-record-1543324/

disco inferno
12-05-2018, 07:25 PM
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/lawsuit-filed-against-las-vegas-based-allegiant-for-safety-record-1543324/
That lawsuit will go nowhere.

FreshWater
12-06-2018, 10:49 AM
That lawsuit will go nowhere.

Especially now thanks to our friends in Burbank.

tyler durden
03-21-2019, 08:50 AM
Thought I'd seen that $1B figure somewhere. It's baaaaack....

"Per the terms of the agreement, the initial commitment from TPG is $175 million for developing this waterfront resort. In fact, total investment under the partnership might increase up to $1 billion."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/allegiant-partners-tpg-sunseeker-resorts-145502037.html?.tsrc=applewf

KC135
03-21-2019, 08:27 PM
Thought I'd seen that $1B figure somewhere. It's baaaaack....

"Per the terms of the agreement, the initial commitment from TPG is $175 million for developing this waterfront resort. In fact, total investment under the partnership might increase up to $1 billion."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/allegiant-partners-tpg-sunseeker-resorts-145502037.html?.tsrc=applewf

Just to clarify the original budget hasn't changed. The 1 billion is for the option for future locations/projects if the first one is successful.

"This initial commitment represents the first piece of a long-term, potential $1 billion partnership to develop the Sunseeker Resorts imprint, and will provide opportunities to develop future phases for Sunseeker Resorts Charlotte Harbor, additional properties or related ventures at the discretion of both companies." (http://ir.allegiantair.com/news-releases/news-release-details/allegiant-and-tpg-sixth-street-partners-announce-1-billion)

FAASTER
04-28-2019, 02:06 PM
Can Allegiant employees expect any sort of employee discount at the upcoming Sunseeker Resort? I would think there would be some positive vibe and employee word-of-mouth advertising could only help. Perhaps there would be more support once it's in the money-making stage rather than in the money-sapping stage? Thoughts?

tom11011
04-28-2019, 02:19 PM
Can Allegiant employees expect any sort of employee discount at the upcoming Sunseeker Resort? I would think there would be some positive vibe and employee word-of-mouth advertising could only help. Perhaps there would be more support once it's in the money-making stage rather than in the money-sapping stage? Thoughts?


No discounts.

CAirBear
04-28-2019, 03:55 PM
No discounts.

But, do not overlook the 4 Free Hours of Lazer Tag and Go-Karting (with up to 4 guests)!

Alexander12
04-28-2019, 03:56 PM
No discounts.

No soup for you

sjflyer
05-01-2019, 10:21 AM
No discounts.

Dont worry after the reality of their failed assumptions sinks in. Management will be playing employees to hang out at the resort.

Releasemaster
05-13-2019, 06:50 PM
https://www.planespotters.net/photo/950026/9k-alf-kuwait-airways-airbus-a320-214

Plane was decked out to ship to G4, now flying for a Kuwaiti airline. Word is up to 7 more may do the same.

astaz
05-13-2019, 09:38 PM
https://www.planespotters.net/photo/950026/9k-alf-kuwait-airways-airbus-a320-214

Plane was decked out to ship to G4, now flying for a Kuwaiti airline. Word is up to 7 more may do the same.

The rumor I heard on this, was that the last bunch of ex-Saudi planes we got were such a nightmare in conformity, that they backed out of the remaining ones that they could. Apparently the bill to get them certified and get certified parts in them was astronomical.

labbats
05-14-2019, 04:54 AM
The rumor I heard on this, was that the last bunch of ex-Saudi planes we got were such a nightmare in conformity, that they backed out of the remaining ones that they could. Apparently the bill to get them certified and get certified parts in them was astronomical.

I don’t claim to know all the answers but wouldn’t having more pilot input on these matters avoid such pitfalls?

If I were in management I would use this setback as leverage to offset the power of the accountants.

LoFly
05-14-2019, 12:00 PM
Sooooo...?

LoFly
05-14-2019, 12:06 PM
Those are the last 7 planes we were supposed to have delivered this year. So now I guess we're not getting any? Or maybe 1?
Nice!

wilco811
05-14-2019, 05:43 PM
They might have found too much sand in those and so they had to be rejected. Hopefully we just get new ones instead. 😀

disco inferno
05-16-2019, 08:14 AM
My limited remaining optimism for Allegiant is quickly running out. Has anyone else noticed the anemic growth year over year in the daily scheduled service reports? The transition has been over for months and everyone is trained. Where's the growth?


The company says we hired excess pilots for the transition. Since our peak head count we are down somewhere around 60 pilots since our last new hire class in 2017. I can't imagine that number not trending rapidly upward. Can Maury cash out now and sell us off so we can get back to growing the damn airline already?

SladeTin
05-16-2019, 08:51 AM
My limited remaining optimism for Allegiant is quickly running out. Has anyone else noticed the anemic growth year over year in the daily scheduled service reports? The transition has been over for months and everyone is trained. Where's the growth?


The company says we hired excess pilots for the transition. Since our peak head count we are down somewhere around 60 pilots since our last new hire class in 2017. I can't imagine that number not trending rapidly upward. Can Maury cash out now and sell us off so we can get back to growing the damn airline already?

Yes, I’ve definitely noticed. And all of this has been during one of the most explosive growth periods for airlines in decades. If this is what they’re doing in this environment, what happens when the inevitable downturn hits? I’ve tried to be optimistic about this place, but the optimism has pretty much run out.

tom11011
05-16-2019, 11:36 AM
If you are in the bottom 1/3 of the seniority list, you could be looking at a 10 year upgrade :confused:

9easy
05-16-2019, 11:44 AM
If you are in the bottom 1/3 of the seniority list, you could be looking at a 10 year upgrade :confused:

That is nonsense. People got GRR/SAV CA on the recent bid with less than 4 years seniority. If you want to be CA in IWA or BLI, then yes it will probably take 10+ years. If you're flexible it shouldn't be that bad with 7-10 planes coming every year combined with 20+ CA's retiring or moving on per year.

SladeTin
05-16-2019, 12:29 PM
While 10 years might be a bit much, I don't think 6-7 is unreasonable at all for a new hire (whenever that actually happens). For senior bases the timeframe will be even longer. Fleet growth of 7-10 planes per year may or may not happen. Who knows? The market is ultra competitive to pick up those airframes right now. You have to admit that growing the airline doesn't seem like a big concern these days. They are focused on side projects of hotels and go carts. The airline that is currently operating is providing plenty of profits for them. They seem more than happy to keep milking it for all it's worth and keep their vision elsewhere. Those upgrades that you're talking about in GRR and SAV were hired during a huge hiring boom. You're not likely to see that kind of growth again. To compare their upgrade time to what a new hire would face is comparing apples to oranges.

disco inferno
05-16-2019, 12:32 PM
That is nonsense. People got GRR/SAV CA on the recent bid with less than 4 years seniority. If you want to be CA in IWA or BLI, then yes it will probably take 10+ years. If you're flexible it shouldn't be that bad with 7-10 planes coming every year combined with 20+ CA's retiring or moving on per year.
They can bring all the planes they want. It's the amount of departures that matters. More departures equals more pilots and more movement. We aren't growing anywhere near the rate of Spirit or Frontier.
https://www.aviationplanning.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/1Q18-19-625px.png

tom11011
05-16-2019, 01:02 PM
Those upgrades that you're talking about in GRR and SAV were hired during a huge hiring boom. You're not likely to see that kind of growth again. To compare their upgrade time to what a new hire would face is comparing apples to oranges.


Correct, the most junior upgrade in that last vacancy is right at the 2/3 of the seniority list mark. Back then, we were hiring 40 pilots per month, every month. This particular pilot is at the 2/3 mark on the list only because of the hiring that happened. In actuality, he has only moved up 75 numbers in the last 3.5 years and 18 in the last 12 months. Once we signed the new contract, attrition subsided a lot.


If we were to attempt to project that on to today's seniority list, a new hire would have to climb 291 numbers at 18 per year to be in the same position to upgrade into a junior base. That's 16 years, but obviously doesn't take into consideration the addition of the remaining 7 new airplanes this year and I think 10 next year, numbers the company claims we will grow into with existing pilot employees. And there is only a handful of pilots reaching mandatory age in the next 4 years.


Having said that, there are plenty of pilots here happy to be career FO's, many of them enjoy the lifestyle and FO seniority with other side ventures bringing in the money working 10-12 days per month, home every night, never a weekend or holiday etc..

Flightaware
05-16-2019, 01:07 PM
https://www.planespotters.net/photo/950026/9k-alf-kuwait-airways-airbus-a320-214

Plane was decked out to ship to G4, now flying for a Kuwaiti airline. Word is up to 7 more may do the same.

These are the 8 Saudi planes that Saudi’s screwed us on. More money came to the table and they found a way to get us to breach our contract. FR came to recurrent and said we would never ever buy from them again, he referred to them as ‘Camel Jockeys’ among other choice names. I’d say the sentiment is appropriate if the circumstances are true.

crxpilot
05-16-2019, 01:42 PM
Those 7-8 planes a year are not all additions to the fleet. Some are for replacements as they stated in their most recent briefing. Anyone getting hired “today” will have a loooonnnngggg wait for upgrade. Grab a snickers.

disco inferno
05-16-2019, 02:47 PM
The hotels and go karts aren't stupid ideas in general. The part where you opt to stagnate a proven and highly profitable airline during a growth market to delve into such ventures is what blows me away.



If Maury was running Starbucks in the early years, they would have ended up with 3 shops and started selling coffee mugs and Tshirts. That's assuming his contract workers he hired didn't burn the stores down first.

disco inferno
05-16-2019, 02:55 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/16/taco-bell-wants-you-to-spend-the-nightat-its-new-palm-springs-hotel.html


Oh no Maury. Someone stole your idea.

Releasemaster
05-16-2019, 10:09 PM
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1362468/000136246819000021/a2019schedule14a.htm

Order of business:

Re-elect Maury and friends to the board

Hire an independent accounting agency, which formerly employed a board member.

Vote no on shareholder proposal requiring less precentage of shares to nominate to the board ie: Maury wants no competition.

Releasemaster
05-16-2019, 10:10 PM
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1362468/000136246819000025/algt20190510_8k.htm

ecam
05-18-2019, 06:21 AM
These are the 8 Saudi planes that Saudi’s screwed us on. More money came to the table and they found a way to get us to breach our contract. FR came to recurrent and said we would never ever buy from them again, he referred to them as ‘Camel Jockeys’ among other choice names. I’d say the sentiment is appropriate if the circumstances are true.

We have the program manager a key member of management running around calling the Saudis camel jockeys? Is HR going to put up with this? I've seen quite a few people of middle eastern descent working here. I'm sure there are many investors too. Whats next showing up at the company Christmas party in black face because we found some planes in Uganda and they hosed us? His lack of professionalism is one of our biggest handicaps in being a serious airline. How long are they going to keep letting him play manager. More people should ask questions about his work history.

9easy
05-19-2019, 10:33 PM
We have the program manager a key member of management running around calling the Saudis camel jockeys? Is HR going to put up with this? I've seen quite a few people of middle eastern descent working here. I'm sure there are many investors too. Whats next showing up at the company Christmas party in black face because we found some planes in Uganda and they hosed us? His lack of professionalism is one of our biggest handicaps in being a serious airline. How long are they going to keep letting him play manager. More people should ask questions about his work history.

This is clearly inappropriate if this actually happened. We also have many pilots and pilots with loved ones of middle eastern background. I hope if this happened, anyone in class would contact HR.

Beretta01
05-20-2019, 08:30 AM
This is clearly inappropriate if this actually happened. We also have many pilots and pilots with loved ones of middle eastern background. I hope if this happened, anyone in class would contact HR.

I feel like Pro Standards would be a more appropriate avenue. Everyone’s feelings are getting hurt over what some anonymous internet account claimed FR said.

G4er
05-20-2019, 08:42 AM
I feel like Pro Standards would be a more appropriate avenue. Everyone’s feelings are getting hurt over what some anonymous internet account claimed FR said.

^^^^^^^
This, 100 percent. Always talk to the person first, and if you are to afraid, Pro Standards. HR should always be last resort.
I also get the argument that management treats us like dung, but that doesn’t have to mean we have to act with malice towards them.
I think a snitch culture is something to be avoided here.

KC135
05-20-2019, 08:54 AM
I feel like Pro Standards would be a more appropriate avenue. Everyone’s feelings are getting hurt over what some anonymous internet account claimed ** said.

^^^^^^^
This, 100 percent. Always talk to the person first, and if you are to afraid, Pro Standards. HR should always be last resort.
I also get the argument that management treats us like dung, but that doesn’t have to mean we have to act with malice towards them.
I think a snitch culture is something to be avoided here.

Yes and yes, thank you!

dawgdriver
05-20-2019, 12:50 PM
Last few posts were spot on. Running to HR is not the first solution. Kudos to those suggesting other avenues first, most importantly, confronting the individual, face-to-face. We are ALL guilty of mis-steps; yes, even management. No one should ever lose their career over something unintentional, but people do, every day. It's got way out of hand. Corporate America walking on egg shells. Enough already.

grnclvrs
05-21-2019, 01:49 AM
I feel like Pro Standards would be a more appropriate avenue. Everyone’s feelings are getting hurt over what some anonymous internet account claimed FR said.

Are management pilots entitled to pro standards services? Either way, if rumors are true, this is about to self correct.

Releasemaster
05-22-2019, 02:05 PM
These are the 8 Saudi planes that Saudi’s screwed us on. More money came to the table and they found a way to get us to breach our contract. FR came to recurrent and said we would never ever buy from them again, he referred to them as ‘Camel Jockeys’ among other choice names. I’d say the sentiment is appropriate if the circumstances are true.

Ironically, Saudi Airlines was just announced as one of our new inter line partners.

Captainbfv
05-24-2019, 02:37 PM
Nothing worst than grown a$$ men snitching, or getting outraged over someone’s insensitive mouth. Such a snowflake way of seeing things. If it really hurts you that much? Approach the individual and talk to him like a man.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ecam
05-25-2019, 07:55 AM
Nothing worst than grown a$$ men snitching, or getting outraged over someone’s insensitive mouth. Such a snowflake way of seeing things. If it really hurts you that much? Approach the individual and talk to him like a man.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm a grown ass man in his low 60s and I don't consider myself a snowflake. I wasn't there when it happened either. But we can't allow people in authority positions at our airline to act unprofessionally. This has nothing to do with snowflakes or PC culture which I agree is annoying but I'm also sick and tired of hearing about. It's someone running our airline spouting racial slurs against a large group of people who may be employees vendors customers and investors. There has to be some accountability and this is not this guys first second or even third time making an ass of himself and our company in public. Let's not excuse bad behavior or accuse the people who reported it.

labbats
05-25-2019, 09:20 AM
I’m not offended and I don’t care. You sound like a snowflake.

The same individual mocks his own heritage. It’s just how he speaks to people. I’ll take that over a robot on PC patrol any day.

dawgdriver
05-25-2019, 10:08 AM
I’m not offended and I don’t care. You sound like a snowflake.

The same individual mocks his own heritage. It’s just how he speaks to people. I’ll take that over a robot on PC patrol any day.

^^^^ well said ^^^^

tailendcharlie
05-25-2019, 12:15 PM
I would agree with others - don’t go to HR - they are not your friend. And btw this is not unique to the airline industry. Certain & unique - I’m being diplomatic here - type people gravitate to these positions. Consider them on par with the IRS or FAA.

symbian simian
05-26-2019, 02:36 PM
I would agree with others - don’t go to HR - they are not your friend. And btw this is not unique to the airline industry. Certain & unique - I’m being diplomatic here - type people gravitate to these positions. Consider them on par with the IRS or FAA.

Here to help?

ESQ702
05-26-2019, 03:25 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/16/taco-bell-wants-you-to-spend-the-nightat-its-new-palm-springs-hotel.html


Oh no Maury. Someone stole your idea.

Sweet. Do they offer nacho cheese baths?

wette460
05-29-2019, 02:58 PM
Sweet. Do they offer nacho cheese baths?

I think taco bell will do better than Sunseeker. People seriously get married at Taco Bell because they love it so much. I don't see people getting married at gate 6 at SFB...just sayin'.