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View Full Version : Curious


jhowlan5
10-26-2018, 09:49 AM
I was wondering if anyone has been hired at Southwest directly from cape air. I am looking at going to fly for them. Thanks


jfroehlich
10-26-2018, 07:39 PM
Doubtful. Was at Cape Air until recently, and never heard of anyone making that leap...yet. I suggest you try your question in the active or alumni Facebook groups. If it has ever happened, someone in one of those groups will know.


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tanker
10-27-2018, 02:55 AM
Until recently Southwest required 1000 hours of turbine PIC (I believe that it is still preferred) so unless a pilot had worked somewhere else before Cape Air a direct move would be impossible.


ZapBrannigan
10-27-2018, 05:12 AM
Cape Air has a flow through with JetBlue. That’s your best bet for a seamless transition to a major.


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Warhawg01
10-27-2018, 05:38 AM
We had a kid from Cape Air on our jumpseat recently, out of Logan. He has his 2500 hours and is just waiting for his 23rd birthday to send in his SWA app. He “knows somebody” and seemed extremely confident. Except when he lost his phone on the plane and never bothered to look near the actual jumpseat where he was sitting.

However, he had no issues blowing off some constructive criticism from the CA on proper jumpseat procedures because “other captains let him do it”. He was a really shiny penny.

Needless to say, that jumpseat card did not end up in the trash bag.

barabek
10-27-2018, 07:20 AM
We had a kid from Cape Air on our jumpseat recently, out of Logan. He has his 2500 hours and is just waiting for his 23rd birthday to send in his SWA app. He “knows somebody” and seemed extremely confident. Except when he lost his phone on the plane and never bothered to look near the actual jumpseat where he was sitting.

However, he had no issues blowing off some constructive criticism from the CA on proper jumpseat procedures because “other captains let him do it”. He was a really shiny penny.

Needless to say, that jumpseat card did not end up in the trash bag.

Funny kid, 2500 hours and 23 years old is not exactly a typical Southwest newhire material. Knowing "somebody" is not worth a thing either. Even almighty Herb won't get you an interview nowadays. Extreme confidence is literally all this guy has going for himself.

Smooth at FL450
10-27-2018, 07:37 AM
Extreme confidence is literally all this guy has going for himself.


Which will become his ultimate pitfall if he doesn't learn some humility before he gets to his "inevitable" interview! Arrogance/over-confidence doesn't translate well in an interview setting.

barabek
10-27-2018, 08:16 AM
Which will become his ultimate pitfall if he doesn't learn some humility before he gets to his "inevitable" interview! Arrogance/over-confidence doesn't translate well in an interview setting.

Agree completely. I was thinking more in terms of his self image. "Extreme confidence" doesn't score interviews.

PotatoChip
10-27-2018, 08:29 AM
Funny kid, 2500 hours and 23 years old is not exactly a typical Southwest newhire material. Knowing "somebody" is not worth a thing either. Even almighty Herb won't get you an interview nowadays. Extreme confidence is literally all this guy has going for himself.

Unfortunately I fly with a lot of young 20-somethings at my shop who act exactly like this. They just see me as some 40-year-old burnout who never made it, but they'll be out of there and at a legacy by 26.....

jhowlan5
10-27-2018, 08:55 AM
I would love to sit in the jump seat and get some criticism. Spirit also had what could almost be called a flow. I thought about trying to go there and get some turbine time while applying at SWA. With the new contract, there are worse places to get stuck.

79K10
10-27-2018, 09:16 AM
I know I hardly post but the way this topic turned reminded me of something that bears repeating. You are always being watched. Whether you are Jumpseating or at work.

If you are a pilot for a regional hoping to move on just assume on every flight there is a passenger in the back that could have bearing on your future career goals. Remember to conduct yourself professionally when in the public eye and interacting with the passengers. You never know who you are interacting with and who they work for. I have had personal experience with this and the hiring personnel at a major. Fortunately it was not me, but it was eye opening. Since it is a public forum that is all I will say, but just keep that in the back of your mind when you are out on the line.

Cheers!

PowerShift
10-27-2018, 02:38 PM
I know I hardly post but the way this topic turned reminded me of something that bears repeating. You are always being watched. Whether you are Jumpseating or at work.

If you are a pilot for a regional hoping to move on just assume on every flight there is a passenger in the back that could have bearing on your future career goals. Remember to conduct yourself professionally when in the public eye and interacting with the passengers. You never know who you are interacting with and who they work for. I have had personal experience with this and the hiring personnel at a major. Fortunately it was not me, but it was eye opening. Since it is a public forum that is all I will say, but just keep that in the back of your mind when you are out on the line.

Cheers!

Great advice. I will add not burn nay bridges either. It’s a small world after all!

To the original poster, I had zero mil, jet or airline time when I got hired. Lots of other boxes filled though.

If you look at the recent hires, 28-29 yrs old seems to be the youngest, and there are only 1 or 2 per class. Average age in my class was 37. For the civ guys I would say 5500-6000 hrs TT was the average. I had 9K+. 1/3 of the class had been a check airman etc.

I don’t think we are at the point of hiring 23 yr olds with a wet ATP yet.

ZapBrannigan
10-27-2018, 04:13 PM
My class was almost 5 years ago but at the time the civilian average was 10,000-11,000 hours plus former check airman or chief pilot or other management type role.


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at6d
10-27-2018, 04:26 PM
Same in my class end of 2015.

Middle guy in class was 41. Average total time civilian was 7000. Half the class was military with a few of those as regional guys. A handfull of 737 guys from Sun Country, Swift type operators, handful of corporate. Most had check airman/management time of some kind.

Lowest time guy was F-16 with total at 1900.

All but six had the type.

ShyGuy
10-27-2018, 05:32 PM
I still remember back when I thought I could train in Florida, fly a King Air for Tab Express and get the 1000 TPIC, and go to Southwest at 23. To be young, naiive, and stupid.

At least I’m not young anymore :D

PotatoChip
10-27-2018, 05:45 PM
I still remember back when I thought I could train in Florida, fly a King Air for Tab Express and get the 1000 TPIC, and go to Southwest at 23. To be young, naiive, and stupid.

At least I’m not young anymore :D

Tab?!
How stupid were you? Lol.

dustrpilot
10-27-2018, 05:54 PM
[QUOTE=PotatoChip;
Deleted

ShyGuy
10-27-2018, 06:48 PM
Tab?!
How stupid were you? Lol.

Like I said, at least I’m not young anymore :D

flensr
10-27-2018, 10:05 PM
I would love to sit in the jump seat and get some criticism. Spirit also had what could almost be called a flow. I thought about trying to go there and get some turbine time while applying at SWA. With the new contract, there are worse places to get stuck.

Spirit is a real player in the ULCC/LCC space. They have a big boy contract and their hiring teams absolutely hate the idea that pilots might be simply touching base there on the way to a legacy. They did it to themselves when they ****ed off so many ex-military pilots who gave spirit a try but were disgusted by the idiocy displayed by spirit management during the contract negotiations, but the sentiment is real. Any hint that spirit is just a touch and go and the application will likely get sorted to the circular file. Mil pilots spent their mil career with an incompetent leadership chain that has permitted work conditions and compensation to continuously degrade, and they're not willing to work for a company that is running the same playbook. Pilots with a purely civilian background who have a similar attitude might find it hard to get hired at spirit especially now.

For a pilot with 18 or less years remaining (ie. many retired mil), the career compensation (to age 65) at spirit and SWA are nearly identical, but the flying at spirit will be 2-3 leg days with a 5 year upgrade, vs. 4-5 leg days and a 10 year upgrade. An older pilot with 10-20 years remaining may actually get paid more for less work at Spirit than SWA. That may change with 2020 but it's shaping up to be a battle.

dawgdriver
10-28-2018, 07:52 AM
Spirit is a real player in the ULCC/LCC space. They have a big boy contract and their hiring teams absolutely hate the idea that pilots might be simply touching base there on the way to a legacy. They did it to themselves when they ****ed off so many ex-military pilots who gave spirit a try but were disgusted by the idiocy displayed by spirit management during the contract negotiations, but the sentiment is real. Any hint that spirit is just a touch and go and the application will likely get sorted to the circular file. Mil pilots spent their mil career with an incompetent leadership chain that has permitted work conditions and compensation to continuously degrade, and they're not willing to work for a company that is running the same playbook. Pilots with a purely civilian background who have a similar attitude might find it hard to get hired at spirit especially now

For a pilot with 18 or less years remaining (ie. many retired mil), the career compensation (to age 65) at spirit and SWA are nearly identical, but the flying at spirit will be 2-3 leg days with a 5 year upgrade, vs. 4-5 leg days and a 10 year upgrade. An older pilot with 10-20 years remaining may actually get paid more for less work at Spirit than SWA. That may change with 2020 but it's shaping up to be a battle.

SW may be facing hiring headwinds the likes it hasn't seen since it was a laughable bottom-dweller. Eventually the cinderella, the pedigree flocked there to experience the LUV, but most would say that's pretty much gone, along with the financial incentives to work there.

While legacies throw more money at their pilots, even prior to contract amendable dates, SW angers its pilots by dragging out negotiations for years (mechanic's contract expired 6 years ago) and then settles at rates that are uncompetitive by DOS (SW FOs with 1-4 years can now expect up to $30/hour less than their legacy counterparts). Unlike SW's 10 year upgrade, legacy FOs are more likely to be glancing over at the captain pay scales by year 4, unless they choose the lucrative QOL flying associated with wide bodies. It's not just the legacies they're losing candidates to either, as ULCCs now offer comparable rates with quick upgrades, better equipment, and, in some cases, zero overnights. Tough to argue.

Until recently, one could argue that the comparably overworked SW pilots, although behind in hourly rates, could make up the difference with overtime (premium) pay, but that appears to have dried up as well. Whether that's temporary while SW's prolonged ETOPs journey to Hawaii drags on or whether the staffing model is permanently changing to a more traditional, less lean/reactionary one is unclear. Some have even argued the possibility that SW has been on a hiring spree hoping to hoard the ever-dwindling number of applicants still out there.

Who knows, but to those researching their options, the data is a keystroke away and, on paper, looking better by the day. Sadly, despite dropping the ridiculous 737 type and hiring mins, SW leadership behavior continues to indicate the (mistaken) impression that they're still the destination of choice they once were.

jhowlan5
10-28-2018, 08:15 AM
I was really starting to wonder how they compared. Spirit seems to be set to grow quite a bit which would be great to get into. If I could "flow" from cape air to Spirit I would be thrilled. And the Vegas base isn't far from SLC which is home.

WHACKMASTER
10-28-2018, 10:18 AM
I was really starting to wonder how they compared. Spirit seems to be set to grow quite a bit which would be great to get into. If I could "flow" from cape air to Spirit I would be thrilled. And the Vegas base isn't far from SLC which is home.

Yeah, I’d be all over that flow if I were you. Spirit’s future is bright, whether that be as a stand-alone or after one of the legacies gobbles them up.

Bwipilot
11-05-2018, 06:20 PM
Yeah, I’d be all over that flow if I were you. Spirit’s future is bright, whether that be as a stand-alone or after one of the legacies gobbles them up.

The most whacked thing that I read today---Whackmaster giving advice to another pilot on where to work. His grass will always be greener on the other side of the fence. If he was at Spirit, he'd be trumpeting just how bad management was over and over and over and over . . .

On the bright side, Whackmaster is predictable--but I certainly wouldn't use him for career advice. His first concern is making himself feel better about the past. :cool:

Flitestar
11-12-2018, 12:24 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that whackmaster was going full sarcastic on the OP...

RJSAviator76
11-12-2018, 01:49 PM
For the prospective pilots interested in Southwest, anyone that tries to sell you:

- our balance sheet
- the "culture"
- the "never furloughed" spiel
- the domiciles
- the scope clause
- the vacation rules
- the reserve rules
- the number of days away from home...

you look them straight in the eye and tell them that by coming to Southwest:

- you will lag your legacy peers in hourly rates.
- you cannot be happy being an FO for the better part of your career, and a 15-year upgrade because of a young pilot group is a non-starter.
- you will be treated like garbage by the company should you go out on medical and you don't want to subject your family to it.
- you will never fly a widebody here.
- you will be stuck flying that clacked-out, uncomfortable and loud POS 737 for the rest of your career.
- you will miss out on Frontier with their new TA, JetBlue, and Spirit with their new contracts as are all much better options with much quicker upgrade than Southwest, and we aren't even talking about legacies.

In the end, that 4th stripe and the ability to brag about the highest hourly rates in the world is what it's all about... at least on APC. :p

captjns
11-12-2018, 02:25 PM
For the prospective pilots interested in Southwest, anyone that tries to sell you:

- our balance sheet
- the "culture"
- the "never furloughed" spiel
- the domiciles
- the scope clause
- the vacation rules
- the reserve rules
- the number of days away from home...

you look them straight in the eye and tell them that by coming to Southwest:

- you will lag your legacy peers in hourly rates.
- you cannot be happy being an FO for the better part of your career, and a 15-year upgrade because of a young pilot group is a non-starter.
- you will be treated like garbage by the company should you go out on medical and you don't want to subject your family to it.
- you will never fly a widebody here.
- you will be stuck flying that clacked-out, uncomfortable and loud POS 737 for the rest of your career.
- you will miss out on Frontier with their new TA, JetBlue, and Spirit with their new contracts as are all much better options with much quicker upgrade than Southwest, and we aren't even talking about legacies.

In the end, that 4th stripe and the ability to brag about the highest hourly rates in the world is what it's all about... at least on APC. :p

So when’s your last day at Southwest?:rolleyes:

RJSAviator76
11-12-2018, 02:38 PM
So when’s your last day at Southwest?:rolleyes:



Someone’s been overseas a bit too long. ;)

at6d
11-12-2018, 06:31 PM
For the prospective pilots interested in Southwest, anyone that tries to sell you:

- our balance sheet
- the "culture"
- the "never furloughed" spiel
- the domiciles
- the scope clause
- the vacation rules
- the reserve rules
- the number of days away from home...

you look them straight in the eye and tell them that by coming to Southwest:

- you will lag your legacy peers in hourly rates.
- you cannot be happy being an FO for the better part of your career, and a 15-year upgrade because of a young pilot group is a non-starter.
- you will be treated like garbage by the company should you go out on medical and you don't want to subject your family to it.
- you will never fly a widebody here.
- you will be stuck flying that clacked-out, uncomfortable and loud POS 737 for the rest of your career.
- you will miss out on Frontier with their new TA, JetBlue, and Spirit with their new contracts as are all much better options with much quicker upgrade than Southwest, and we aren't even talking about legacies.

In the end, that 4th stripe and the ability to brag about the highest hourly rates in the world is what it's all about... at least on APC. :p

You bring up good talking points but I have to say that the sales pitches do have merit.

I for one am okay without the wide body (hell it could change LOL), and knew the 737 was the only game when I applied.

I also love the scope and lack of PBS.

That being said, we need to capitalize on the state of the industry for the next contract.