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View Full Version : New hire training.


Tabesoccer99
10-28-2018, 11:16 AM
Hi friends. I have an interview coming up soon. I am very excited about the opportunity to be part of the American family. Does American cover hotel cost in training and is there per diem during the indoc and training. I am just wanting to make sure I am prepared. Thanks.


Al Czervik
10-28-2018, 12:13 PM
Hi friends. I have an interview coming up soon. I am very excited about the opportunity to be part of the American family. Does American cover hotel cost in training and is there per diem during the indoc and training. I am just wanting to make sure I am prepared. Thanks.

Hotel is covered. You are on payroll day one. I believe you are on per diem as well. Welcome and congrats!

Tobes
10-28-2018, 12:50 PM
Hi friends. I have an interview coming up soon. I am very excited about the opportunity to be part of the American family. Does American cover hotel cost in training and is there per diem during the indoc and training. I am just wanting to make sure I am prepared. Thanks.

Yup. Hotel, Perdiem, travel to and from home on your days off. All covered.


Tabesoccer99
10-28-2018, 03:11 PM
Thanks for the info.

Omnivorous
10-29-2018, 01:29 PM
Hi friends. I have an interview coming up soon. I am very excited about the opportunity to be part of the American family. Does American cover hotel cost in training and is there per diem during the indoc and training. I am just wanting to make sure I am prepared. Thanks.

Congratulations on the interview! Can you share some bullet points from your resume? Hours, academic background, previous job, civ/mil, etc?

wiz5422
10-30-2018, 04:08 PM
so what is the realistic pay check for a new hire? With medical taken out, pre diem, OT etc.

how easy is it for one to pick up OT etc.

looking for a realistic take home pay for those that are on first year pay, what are you averaging for those actually flying?

Aviatrx
11-01-2018, 03:46 AM
~$1700/2400 take home per month for me on first year. +1 on medical benefits 1% to 401K, no OT

USMCv22
11-01-2018, 04:38 AM
~$1700/2400 take home per month for me on first year. +1 on medical benefits 1% to 401K, no OT



2,400 per month or per paycheck? I think you need to double check your math.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OVBIII
11-01-2018, 05:30 AM
~$1700/2400 take home per month for me on first year. +1 on medical benefits 1% to 401K, no OT

That seems fairly low. Whatís the tax rate in your state? My first year pay was a bit higher per month. I did 8% 401k, medical and dental and I averaged about 4500/month.
To the original question, YMMV but apparently the bell curve is somewhere between aviatrix and whatever SC/LC pay*1st year pay*your overall tax rate-medical&dental.
*=multiply by

I was SC and no OG my 1st year

TankerDriver
11-03-2018, 06:02 AM
76 hours on short-call at $88 an hour will be somewhere around $5,000 after a 25% tax deduction. It may go south from there after medical, union and other dues. It may go north of that after per diem and open time. Imagine what it used to be like at $30 an hour.

Otterbox
11-03-2018, 06:30 AM
Imagine what it used to be like at $30 an hour.

All of the Flow through pilots are familiar...

PRS Guitars
11-03-2018, 11:54 AM
76 hours on short-call at $88 an hour will be somewhere around $5,000 after a 25% tax deduction. It may go south from there after medical, union and other dues. It may go north of that after per diem and open time. Imagine what it used to be like at $30 an hour.

A new hire won’t pay anywhere near 25% under the new rates and with the standard deduction (unless you live in CA,NJ, or NY).

Edit: just did some back of the napkin math for married working 76 hours a month with standard deduction. You’d pay about 9% federal plus fica hi & lo (total 7.65%) plus state (if applicable).

Yeah, I made $40 an hour my first year (2014). I cut everything to the bone, didn’t even buy coffee for the entire year. Luckily I had a military gig to help mitigate it, so I can’t complain. It was well worth the jump....

Rawhide16
11-03-2018, 03:10 PM
It may go south from there after medical, union and other dues.

No union dues for the first year.

RB123
11-04-2018, 03:17 PM
My take home pay has averaged about 5k per month. I have Virginia state tax and pay dental but not medical (mil retiree).

TankerDriver
11-05-2018, 12:44 PM
Does anyone have recent experience with how long the wait is between indoc and aircraft training? Specifically 190's. Are there CBT's to do and flows to learn before start date?

thrust
11-05-2018, 03:50 PM
Does anyone have recent experience with how long the wait is between indoc and aircraft training? Specifically 190's. Are there CBT's to do and flows to learn before start date?

Typically 2-5 weeks between end of Indoc and start of ground training. E190 course is slightly longer than 320/737 due to the lack of CBTs; maybe 3-5 more days total due to more ground school. Iím sure someone from that fleet could provide that info.

Youíll have a projected start/finish date associated with your domicile and aircraft bid. Some bid to start ASAP, some to delay as long as possible. Minor pros/cons either way. The dates arenít set in stone though, and the wait could be longer than you were told via the bid by the time your training is actually loaded.

Al Czervik
11-05-2018, 04:59 PM
No union dues for the first year.

And no value for the second year until retirement.

bigscrillywilli
11-05-2018, 05:28 PM
And no value for the second year until retirement.

Sad, but true!!

CLTPilot190
11-05-2018, 08:05 PM
Typically 2-5 weeks between end of Indoc and start of ground training. E190 course is slightly longer than 320/737 due to the lack of CBTs; maybe 3-5 more days total due to more ground school. I’m sure someone from that fleet could provide that info.

You’ll have a projected start/finish date associated with your domicile and aircraft bid. Some bid to start ASAP, some to delay as long as possible. Minor pros/cons either way. The dates aren’t set in stone though, and the wait could be longer than you were told via the bid by the time your training is actually loaded.

3 days more Ground School, but nothing to do at home before showing up. First three days in CLT are CBTs then on to IPTs. Cant speak for the 737 but A320 training begins with CBTs to do at home before showing up at the training center.

EMBFlyer
11-06-2018, 12:08 AM
3 days more Ground School, but nothing to do at home before showing up. First three days in CLT are CBTs then on to IPTs. Cant speak for the 737 but A320 training begins with CBTs to do at home before showing up at the training center.

The 737 also has a home-study course prior to ground school starting.

Al Czervik
11-06-2018, 04:42 AM
The 737 also has a home-study course prior to ground school starting.

I believe the home study for the 737 is done on the abacus.

OVBIII
11-06-2018, 05:36 AM
I believe the home study for the 737 is done on the abacus.
The hardest part about learning the 737 was figuring out how to hand crank the motors like a model-T. Still having issues with that

wiz5422
11-06-2018, 11:15 AM
So what is the reserve time looking like these days for 737/320 in LAX/LGA? I know it is a little over a year to bid out of those bases, but what is the time frame to holding a line?

which one is best for commuting QOL out of DFW.

Thanks for the response.

RhinoBallAuto
11-06-2018, 01:26 PM
So what is the reserve time looking like these days for 737/320 in LAX/LGA? I know it is a little over a year to bid out of those bases, but what is the time frame to holding a line?

which one is best for commuting QOL out of DFW.

Thanks for the response.

Go to thread titled "320 by base"... I just inadvertently replied to this over there

Tabesoccer99
11-06-2018, 11:40 PM
Congratulations on the interview! Can you share some bullet points from your resume? Hours, academic background, previous job, civ/mil, etc?

BS in Engineering Technology.
ACMI cargo pilot now
7000tt
All civilian.

tomgoodman
11-07-2018, 05:50 AM
I believe the home study for the 737 is done on the abacus.

You had abacii? On the 727 we used fingers & toes! :D

TransWorld
11-07-2018, 06:46 AM
You had abacii? On the 727 we used fingers & toes! :D

All while sitting sideways, no less!

ORDinary
11-07-2018, 07:47 AM
So what is the reserve time looking like these days for 737/320 in LAX/LGA? I know it is a little over a year to bid out of those bases, but what is the time frame to holding a line?

which one is best for commuting QOL out of DFW.

Thanks for the response.

Can't answer for all of them but 737 reserve in LGA seems to be about 3 months, give or take. As a junior lineholder all or almost all of my trips are commutable on one end, but not both. I have flown with quite a few captains from DFW, not sure how hard the commute is.

4everFO
11-08-2018, 10:41 AM
Yup. Hotel, Perdiem, travel to and from home on your days off. All covered.

What is the guarantee while in initial training? Canít seem to find that in the JCBA.

TankerDriver
11-08-2018, 11:29 AM
Training pay is 82 hours.

RhinoBallAuto
11-08-2018, 08:41 PM
Training pay is 82 hours.

82....ish
It's actually the MALV for your four part bid status. Will be different for different folks, and will change month to month.

Available on APA website (OAC) and AAPilots monthly bid sheets.

Name User
11-08-2018, 09:15 PM
82....ish
It's actually the MALV for your four part bid status. Will be different for different folks, and will change month to month.

Available on APA website (OAC) and AAPilots monthly bid sheets.

These guys really like making everything hard here, I mean seriously.

badflaps
11-09-2018, 02:53 PM
I believe the home study for the 737 is done on the abacus.

Goes well with the emergency flows on papyrus.........

Pedro4President
11-10-2018, 06:38 AM
Can anyone chime in on second year pay?

Upntheair27
11-10-2018, 07:21 AM
It's good. Going to 138 an hour in Jan.

Regionalsuck
11-10-2018, 08:16 AM
Here is the 2019 rates.

Hopefully will be more than this 2nd year for any new hire starting now with a second year in 2020. Should be $140+ by then. Who knows what the new contract will bring.... 3rd year is where the pay starts to get decent with the current contract. Especially at the GIV level. I "think" we will start seeing 3rd year GIV FO's in the next couple years with retirements skyrocketing. Not too far from it now. Junior GIV FO seniority dropped significantly last couple bids.

4000

Pedro4President
11-10-2018, 10:58 AM
~$1700/2400 take home per month for me on first year. +1 on medical benefits 1% to 401K, no OT

Thanks for the responses but I was kinda looking for take home pay. I guess I should have been more clear.

My guess is around 7500 but could someone give some hard numbers with rough benefit and tax break down. (State taxes family of four with top tier medical and x% for 401k.)

Thanks for the 2019 info. I'm guessing 2020 is 2-3% higher.

RhinoBallAuto
11-10-2018, 11:22 AM
Thanks for the responses but I was kinda looking for take home pay. I guess I should have been more clear.

My guess is around 7500 but could someone give some hard numbers with rough benefit and tax break down. (State taxes family of four with top tier medical and x% for 401k.)

Thanks for the 2019 info. I'm guessing 2020 is 2-3% higher.

Don't mean to sound harsh, but you're gonna have to roll up your sleeves and do the math yourself.

The differences in state taxes based on where folks reside, individuals' choice of medical, numerous elective payroll deductions, all will create vastly different answers. You're bound to be set up for disappointingly varied responses here. You've got the base pay rate and the guarantees -- that's your gross. I have faith in you to figure out the take-home -- it is just like any other paycheck and literally is not rocket surgery.

And 2020 will NOT be 2-3% more... Section 6 begins in seven weeks with amendable date of 1/1/20. The landscape will be much different, from payrates, to credit, to work rules... What it will be exactly remains to be seen, but it will definitely be different.

PRS Guitars
11-10-2018, 11:27 AM
Don't mean to sound harsh, but you're gonna have to roll up your sleeves and do the math yourself.

.

Not harsh at all...Spot on!

Pedro4President
11-10-2018, 11:50 AM
Don't mean to sound harsh, but you're gonna have to roll up your sleeves and do the math yourself.

The differences in state taxes based on where folks reside, individuals' choice of medical, numerous elective payroll deductions, all will create vastly different answers. You're bound to be set up for disappointingly varied responses here. You've got the base pay rate and the guarantees -- that's your gross. I have faith in you to figure out the take-home -- it is just like any other paycheck and literally is not rocket surgery.

And 2020 will NOT be 2-3% more... Section 6 begins in seven weeks with amendable date of 1/1/20. The landscape will be much different, from payrates, to credit, to work rules... What it will be exactly remains to be seen, but it will definitely be different.

Anyone want to be helpful instead of condescending and annoying. Sure I'll do some math on a problem with several variables I don't have. If you want to do it the hard way give me information on average credit dues and medical premiums.

RhinoBallAuto
11-10-2018, 12:09 PM
Anyone want to be helpful instead of condescending and annoying. Sure I'll do some math on a problem with several variables I don't have. If you want to do it the hard way give me information on average credit dues and medical premiums.

I'm sure you don't understand this, but I'll make an effort anyway....

By telling you that you need to do it yourself, I am actually being more helpful than spoon feeding you a number that: A) you have no idea how it was calculated, and B) probably isn't accurate for your circumstances.

All of the information you are panhandling for is out there. Grab a contract comparison PDF, and it will tell you the rates for union dues and medical / dental. Only YOU know your state tax rate, federal income tax bracket, and personal 401K savings goals.

I'll give you a heads start by saying $7500 take-home is extremely optimistic. Even at 2019 payrates. $90.93 x 82 hours < $7500...and that's gross pay. And SC is only 76 hours.

So, by suggesting you need to roll up your sleeves, I wasn't being condescending...I was telling you you need to educate yourself on the relationship between your labor and your wages, no matter your profession. The level you decide to commit to this effort is entirely up to you. It was only annoying because you wanted it handed to you, and you didn't like someone telling you that you shouldn't expect that to happen. It's only "the hard way" because it's harder for you than to just demand an answer.

Good luck.

Sliceback
11-10-2018, 12:24 PM
And 2020 will NOT be 2-3% more... Section 6 begins in seven weeks with amendable date of 1/1/20. The landscape will be much different, from payrates, to credit, to work rules... What it will be exactly remains to be seen, but it will definitely be different.

The landscape in 2020 might be the same as it is in 2019. There is no requirement, or timeline, for a new landscape in 2020. It will be different at some point in the future. When in the future is a huge unknown.

PRS Guitars
11-10-2018, 01:50 PM
Anyone want to be helpful instead of condescending and annoying. Sure I'll do some math on a problem with several variables I don't have. If you want to do it the hard way give me information on average credit dues and medical premiums.

Fly what you want if you can hold a line, so figure 75 to 95 hours a month, or just use reserve numbers 76 SC, 73 LC.

I don’t use the medical, but I’m guessing $500 a month for premiums on that.

1% APA dues (1.5 until we get a contract)

Use a 2018 federal tax table and work your way through it (ie, you don’t pay your highest rate on your entire salary, amazing how many people don’t know that) after subtracting the standard deduction, and don’t forget to add in the child tax credit which is $2k per kid capped at $400k. Also subtract out your 401k contribution if you do it.

Use your states tax table for state income tax and city (if you’re unfortunate enough to pay that).

.9% CA disability to an $1149.67 cap if your LAX based.

6.2% FICA OASDI to the $7960.80 cap (you probably won’t exceed that on year 2)

1.45% FICA HI no cap

After all that figure 5-700 tax free per diem a month unless you sit reserve.

Then for fun do it again with 2017 federal rates and see the difference. I’m better by $3500 as of sept this year.

RhinoBallAuto
11-10-2018, 02:38 PM
There is no requirement, or timeline, for a new landscape in 2020. It will be different at some point in the future. When in the future is a huge unknown.

Point taken.
But if you consider management's position, they will be very eager to get a contract agreement before DAL/ALPA does... FWIW

Name User
11-11-2018, 02:26 PM
Anyone want to be helpful instead of condescending and annoying. Sure I'll do some math on a problem with several variables I don't have. If you want to do it the hard way give me information on average credit dues and medical premiums.

My take home on 5th year pay flying 88-90 hours a month on GII is around $8000 give or take after taxes and deductions.

MFJ but withheld at single rate due to spouse working
No kids
Max 401k
$100/month medical
5% state income tax

I generally get a little back at the end of the year. Not a ton though.

Dobbs18
11-11-2018, 08:41 PM
Not harsh at all...Spot on!
Agreed, not harsh...itís pretty easy to do the math and come up with a number that is within a few $100 bucks or so of what your take home is going to be once you know the pay rates and credit

TankerDriver
11-11-2018, 08:42 PM
My take home on 5th year pay flying 88-90 hours a month on GII is around $8000 give or take after taxes and deductions.

MFJ but withheld at single rate due to spouse working
No kids
Max 401k
$100/month medical
5% state income tax

I generally get a little back at the end of the year. Not a ton though.

Only $8K per month? Seems off to me, but maybe it's because you withhold at the single rate. 5th year pay at 88 hrs is just north of $173k per year. If you didn't max your 401k ($18,500), that's roughly $114.5k net per year or 66% of your gross. You must pay a lot of tax. Still cheaper than having kids though!

Al Czervik
11-12-2018, 02:38 AM
Only $8K per month? Seems off to me, but maybe it's because you withhold at the single rate. 5th year pay at 88 hrs is just north of $173k per year. If you didn't max your 401k ($18,500), that's roughly $114.5k net per year or 66% of your gross. You must pay a lot of tax. Still cheaper than having kids though!

I thought his numbers were low too.

Al Czervik
11-12-2018, 04:31 AM
Still cheaper than having kids though!

I think a nasty cocaine and gambling problem is cheaper than kids.

Dobbs18
11-12-2018, 05:46 AM
I thought his numbers were low too.
Could be a Roth 401k deferral, I do that and it brings the net or percentage of gross down pretty significantly...

Regionalsuck
11-12-2018, 07:46 AM
Only $8K per month? Seems off to me, but maybe it's because you withhold at the single rate. 5th year pay at 88 hrs is just north of $173k per year. If you didn't max your 401k ($18,500), that's roughly $114.5k net per year or 66% of your gross. You must pay a lot of tax. Still cheaper than having kids though!

I'm not sure of his age but if he is grossing 173K a year and truly MAXING 401K, he still has room for an additional taxable contribution of $8,800 or $14,800 (if over age 50) in addition to the $18,500 pre-tax. This is after the 16% company contribution he would get of approx 27-28K at that salary. That could be lowering his net by a fairly large amount.

This is why I didn't bother with after tax specific net for that guy asking because they vary so much person to person. Taxes can be significantly different depending on your situation. My net take home numbers are extremely low for 1st year pay and would scare people. lol. BUT, I'm maxing the 55k limits with retirement and have health contributions maxed out. Only about $1200 a month of that 55K bucket is being filled from 16% company contributions so as you can imagine, my take home pay check is not impressive.

I can tell you my "Gross" 1st year pay has been about $7200-9000/month. Higher in training months. I also came from wholly owned so get 16% contribution 1st year so that is also helpful, an extra 14K or so 1st yr. Needs to be fixed so EVERYONE gets it though.

Don't forget our HUUUGE profit sharing and performance bonus checks too! Lol

buffalo
11-13-2018, 05:14 AM
I'm not sure of his age but if he is grossing 173K a year and truly MAXING 401K, he still has room for an additional taxable contribution of $8,800 or $14,800 (if over age 50) in addition to the $18,500 pre-tax. This is after the 16% company contribution he would get of approx 27-28K at that salary. That could be lowering his net by a fairly large amount.

This is why I didn't bother with after tax specific net for that guy asking because they vary so much person to person. Taxes can be significantly different depending on your situation. My net take home numbers are extremely low for 1st year pay and would scare people. lol. BUT, I'm maxing the 55k limits with retirement and have health contributions maxed out. Only about $1200 a month of that 55K bucket is being filled from 16% company contributions so as you can imagine, my take home pay check is not impressive.

I can tell you my "Gross" 1st year pay has been about $7200-9000/month. Higher in training months. I also came from wholly owned so get 16% contribution 1st year so that is also helpful, an extra 14K or so 1st yr. Needs to be fixed so EVERYONE gets it though.

Don't forget our HUUUGE profit sharing and performance bonus checks too! Lol

How are adding tax deferred money to your 401K on top of the $18,500 IRS limit? Let's also assume your income is above the IRS limit for roth IRA contributions.

Andrew_VT
11-13-2018, 05:29 AM
Let's also assume your income is above the IRS limit for roth IRA contributions.

That has no real consequence. The IRS has fully legalized the "backdoor" Roth conversion.

Regionalsuck
11-13-2018, 09:36 AM
How are adding tax deferred money to your 401K on top of the $18,500 IRS limit? Let's also assume your income is above the IRS limit for roth IRA contributions.

It isn't all tax deferred, at least not at my pay rates. You have to hit around $228,000 for it all to be tax deferred, if you wanted to keep it that way. 16% company contribution plus $18,500.

1st year rates:
$18,500 = tax deferred
16% contribution (appx 14K 1st year) = tax deferred
remaining $22,500 = post tax
(total = 55k since I am under 50)

Me personally, I immediately convert all remaining post tax to Roth once it hits Fidelity via Mega-backdoor since I am ineligible to contribute directly to a Roth. No income restrictions on "conversions" to Roth. At first year pay rates I have room to put in about 22.5K converted to Roth via mega-backdoor. For now, I keep the $18,500 tax deferred just to keep a mix. You, could roll all that 18,500 into Roth as well if you wanted, just would have to pay tax on it. Arguments for both sides..

Most new hires won't even mess with the 55K limits 1st year, but if you have other income sources or a working spouse, it's a nice benefit we can take advantage of that our Fidelity plan allows. Many plans don't.



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