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View Full Version : Commuting from other islands


cgjensen
10-29-2018, 04:55 PM
Hey, Iím a very unhappy Cathay pilot, desperately trying to leave them. We have vacationed in Hawaii every year for the last 12 years. We love Kauai and the Big Island and have wanted to move there for a while. I am about 50 years old and love the idea of working my last 15 years in Hawaii, but Iíd want to live on Kauai or the Big Island and Iíd love to know about the challenges of commuting to hnl. Iím just finishing my application, and realize that the first year pay is not too good. One last question, do you think they would hire a 50 year old with decades of Pacific Ocean flying? Thanks in advance for any input.


Donuthole
10-29-2018, 06:43 PM
Hey, Iím a very unhappy Cathay pilot, desperately trying to leave them. We have vacationed in Hawaii every year for the last 12 years. We love Kauai and the Big Island and have wanted to move there for a while. I am about 50 years old and love the idea of working my last 15 years in Hawaii, but Iíd want to live on Kauai or the Big Island and Iíd love to know about the challenges of commuting to hnl. Iím just finishing my application, and realize that the first year pay is not too good. One last question, do you think they would hire a 50 year old with decades of Pacific Ocean flying? Thanks in advance for any input.

Commuted from OGG, which is probably the worst and didnít have too many issues.

SD3FR8DOG
10-30-2018, 03:35 AM
Thereís at least a couple ex-Cathay guys here.


full of luv
10-30-2018, 06:46 AM
Hey, Iím a very unhappy Cathay pilot, desperately trying to leave them. We have vacationed in Hawaii every year for the last 12 years. We love Kauai and the Big Island and have wanted to move there for a while. I am about 50 years old and love the idea of working my last 15 years in Hawaii, but Iíd want to live on Kauai or the Big Island and Iíd love to know about the challenges of commuting to hnl. Iím just finishing my application, and realize that the first year pay is not too good. One last question, do you think they would hire a 50 year old with decades of Pacific Ocean flying? Thanks in advance for any input.




What's going on at Cathay? I thought they were one of the dream jobs with a US base and only WB pacific flying.....

Hawaiian 5O
10-30-2018, 12:15 PM
I hope that you can get hired. You sound like what we would be looking for.

As for the commute, commuting sucks but Iím sure you already know that. We even have people that commute from Japan and Australia. Itís probably cheaper than HI. [emoji51]

We do have some of the best jumpseat language in the industry though. While still seniority-based, you can lock in the jumpseat 24 hours out. If you are the ďsenior guyĒ at 24 hours, itís yours. It makes it easier because you will know if you have it or not as opposed to not knowing until the last minute.

This only applies though if you list outside of AND check in before 24 hours. Inside of 24 hours with no one previously listed, itís more industry standard.

full of luv
10-30-2018, 06:03 PM
I hope that you can get hired. You sound like what we would be looking for.

As for the commute, commuting sucks but Iím sure you already know that. We even have people that commute from Japan and Australia. Itís probably cheaper than HI. [emoji51]

We do have some of the best jumpseat language in the industry though. While still seniority-based, you can lock in the jumpseat 24 hours out. If you are the ďsenior guyĒ at 24 hours, itís yours. It makes it easier because you will know if you have it or not as opposed to not knowing until the last minute.

This only applies though if you list outside of AND check in before 24 hours. Inside of 24 hours with no one previously listed, itís more industry standard.

Well just so you know the rest of the industry, at Delta you can reserve the JS going to work 5 days in advance, from work, 3 days in advance and for personal use 1 day in advance.

I think AA has something similar.

Hawaiian 5O
10-30-2018, 07:22 PM
^^^ We know. What we have works just fine for us.

kingairfun
10-31-2018, 10:01 AM
Well just so you know the rest of the industry, at Delta you can reserve the JS going to work 5 days in advance, from work, 3 days in advance and for personal use 1 day in advance.

I think AA has something similar.

But then I'd have to work for Delta...no thanks

Rama
10-31-2018, 01:54 PM
As a new hire on the 717, you would need at least a crash pad in HNL. You may get a share of the first flight/ last flight of the day on reserve or on a line. Possible to commute on AQ, but a 3 am call for a 5 am departure will probably not work.

Hawaiian 5O
10-31-2018, 02:07 PM
But then I'd have to work for Delta...no thanks



Funny you mention that. A few years ago I questioned our last Jumpseat committee guy (CP) about Deltaís JS Language and asked why we didnít have something similar.

He explained ours was better and gave me the reasons why he thought so. Without remembering all of the inns and outs, I agreed with him at the time and still do. Iím very happy with what we have. It works fine. If it ainít broke...

kingairfun
10-31-2018, 04:20 PM
Funny you mention that. A few years ago I questioned our last Jumpseat committee guy (CP) about Deltaís JS Language and asked why we didnít have something similar.

He explained ours was better and gave me the reasons why he thought so. Without remembering all of the inns and outs, I agreed with him at the time and still do. Iím very happy with what we have. It works fine. If it ainít broke...

What many do not understand, Hawaiian is not a large airline and we don't have 5 pilots trying to jumpseat from one large hub to another...

all of our ETOPS a/c have two jumpseats, which for the most part is plenty..

And we do a large number of flights inter island, get bumped from one flight...wait 20 minutes, sometime 10 minutes, for the next one...hell we do nearly 30 flights between Maui and Oahu alone.

Our system works well for us....are there better? Probably, but for the type and frequency of our flights, it is very easy to plan a commute or travel...I wouldn't waste any negotiating capital on our jumpseat system

Moonwolf
10-31-2018, 10:41 PM
What many do not understand, Hawaiian is not a large airline and we don't have 5 pilots trying to jumpseat from one large hub to another...

all of our ETOPS a/c have two jumpseats, which for the most part is plenty..

And we do a large number of flights inter island, get bumped from one flight...wait 20 minutes, sometime 10 minutes, for the next one...hell we do nearly 30 flights between Maui and Oahu alone.

Our system works well for us....are there better? Probably, but for the type and frequency of our flights, it is very easy to plan a commute or travel...I wouldn't waste any negotiating capital on our jumpseat system

While I agree, Sometimes between 10-2 every flight is full with a hal jumpseater. You can commute, but it's still a commute at the end of the day.

Hawaiian 5O
11-01-2018, 04:27 PM
^^^ Look at the bright side. Considering that commuting sucks, full flights are a good thing. If they were empty, we would be worried about losing our jobs and/or pulling out of that market. Full airplanes are not something to complain about.

ZeroTT
11-03-2018, 10:44 AM
Buy a 172 or an Apache.

Kent
11-06-2018, 08:46 AM
Are there many mainland commuters? Just wondering how crazy that would be and if you guys think a mainland base will ever open up again?

Mahalo!

av8tor55
11-06-2018, 08:54 PM
Are there many mainland commuters? Just wondering how crazy that would be and if you guys think a mainland base will ever open up again?



Mahalo!



There are quite a bit of commuters, on the order of ~25% of the pilots by my estimation. I wouldnít commute, but I guess they make it work. Itís roughly a transcon commute across the US. I wouldnít plan on a mainland base, Iíve never even heard a crew lounge rumor about reopening one.

Hawaiian 5O
11-07-2018, 11:37 AM
Deleted and starting from scratch. Iíll try to be more diplomatic.

IMHO... There will only be a mainland base if we ever merged with somebody based in the US. Short of that, I would not hold my breath. Haleys comet will probably make a return first.

The commute here from the West Coast is the same distance as commuting from LA to Miami. I hope that puts everything in perspective.

Avroman
11-08-2018, 07:11 PM
Deleted and starting from scratch. Iíll try to be more diplomatic.

IMHO... There will only be a mainland base if we ever merged with somebody based in the US. Short of that, I would not hold my breath. Haleys comet will probably make a return first.

The commute here from the West Coast is the same distance as commuting from LA to Miami. I hope that puts everything in perspective.

But how in the world does anyone afford to live on the islands on FO pay? My wife's a stay at home mom, not a CEO.

Rama
11-08-2018, 09:39 PM
That's the $64.000 question because that's probably what you need to survive Crash pad and commute, drain some out of the savings, credit cards are among the ways.
As long as resumes keep coming in, don't expect it to change.
I'm sure everyone here thinks it's so wrong its not even funny, management has shown no signs of relenting.

SD3FR8DOG
11-08-2018, 11:39 PM
But how in the world does anyone afford to live on the islands on FO pay? My wife's a stay at home mom, not a CEO.

First year is tough, doubt the pay will change and not only that thereís a real Ďpaying your duesí culture of first yr here.

Looking at spirit and JetBlue rates plus time to upgrade, Iíd dare say youíd have more money in your pocket at those LCCs than coming here once you factor in cost of living.

Al Czervik
11-11-2018, 05:58 PM
^^^ We know. What we have works just fine for us.

Whatís your system?

sidestep
11-12-2018, 04:57 AM
management has shown no signs of relenting.

Didnít you guys just sign a new contract last year? Big raises across the board, except year 1 pay stays exactly the same. Why would management relent when even the pilot ohana wonít?

ďItís wrong, but we all had to go through itĒ is a tired answer. Each year with inflation that $36/hr becomes less and less valuable.

Hawaiian 5O
11-12-2018, 09:36 AM
Each year with inflation that $36/hr becomes less and less valuable.


Well, looks like pilots are still lined up for miles trying to kick the door in here for jobs. IMHO, if it was that much of a problem people wouldnít be applying.

From what I remember from the roadshow, our loyalty is to pilots already on the property. It was not spun is a rite of passage, it was presented as supply and demand issue. If there ever became a supply issue causing applications to drop, the responsibility is on the company to raise the rate from their budget, not the budget of the pilots already working here. from what I understand, the union asked the company to raise first year rates but the company refused. I have no problem with the way our local union handled this and agree with the philosophy.

What works for you guys at Delta doesnít necessarily translate over to what happens here. When applications start to drop off here, thatís with management will raise the first year rate. If you donít like our first year rate then you can stay at Delta. [emoji106][emoji2532]

IFlyThings
11-12-2018, 10:05 AM
Any noise about how manny applicants this last window had?

sidestep
11-13-2018, 06:59 PM
Well, looks like pilots are still lined up for miles trying to kick the door in here for jobs. IMHO, if it was that much of a problem people wouldnít be applying.

From what I remember from the roadshow, our loyalty is to pilots already on the property. It was not spun is a rite of passage, it was presented as supply and demand issue. If there ever became a supply issue causing applications to drop, the responsibility is on the company to raise the rate from their budget, not the budget of the pilots already working here. from what I understand, the union asked the company to raise first year rates but the company refused. I have no problem with the way our local union handled this and agree with the philosophy.

What works for you guys at Delta doesnít necessarily translate over to what happens here. When applications start to drop off here, thatís with management will raise the first year rate. If you donít like our first year rate then you can stay at Delta. [emoji106][emoji2532]

Delta has nothing to do with it.. the pilot groupís MEC/NC negotiates contracts. If a pilot group wanted all contract gains to go to...like crew meals or uniform allowance - the company would oblige. The company is just a checkbook when it comes to pilot gains - they donít care where it goes, they just have a nunber that they wonít exceed.

DL pilots (and ever other pilot group in the US) didnít want 1st year guys to get left behind, so they negotiate across the board raises.

Iím just surprised that HA of all airlines does this.. my experience living in Hawaii is that people are super community oriented and want to help the less fortunate. Weird that HA pilots wonít even give manini raises to 1st year guys.

If you donít like our first year rate then you can stay at Delta. [emoji106][emoji2532]
LOL! Brah, quote of the year for me. Thank you! 😂😂😂

Avroman
11-13-2018, 07:23 PM
My current first year FO's make about double to fly a CRJ, while being based in a place that the cost of living is about 1/3rd of Hawaii. I know where my Hawaiian application is until that changes. (not currently on file) Same reason I won't give Frontier the time of day and don't put much effort into Spirit. Pathetic when the regionals are paying at least as much, if not more, first year than any of these places. How can anyone support a family in Hawaii on $36000/Yr? I'm not raising my children out of a station wagon along the Honoapiilani. Frankly with the cost of milk and gas on island, that may not be enough to even do that.

RJSAviator76
11-14-2018, 09:13 AM
Is there anything stopping a first-year Hawaiian pilot from seeking public assistance?

Nothing like asking for government cheese in a pilot uniform.

Hawaiian 5O
11-14-2018, 04:13 PM
LOL! Brah, quote of the year for me. Thank you! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]



Youíre welcome. Iíve been called many things, but boring is not one of them. [emoji1686]

Airway
11-22-2018, 08:30 PM
Well, looks like pilots are still lined up for miles trying to kick the door in here for jobs. IMHO, if it was that much of a problem people wouldnít be applying.

From what I remember from the roadshow, our loyalty is to pilots already on the property. It was not spun is a rite of passage, it was presented as supply and demand issue. If there ever became a supply issue causing applications to drop, the responsibility is on the company to raise the rate from their budget, not the budget of the pilots already working here. from what I understand, the union asked the company to raise first year rates but the company refused. I have no problem with the way our local union handled this and agree with the philosophy.

What works for you guys at Delta doesnít necessarily translate over to what happens here. When applications start to drop off here, thatís with management will raise the first year rate. If you donít like our first year rate then you can stay at Delta. [emoji106][emoji2532]

That's like saying you'd never get a raise until you all started to quit. As in, that's not how negotiations work. The first year rate at Hawaiian is what it is because your MEC doesn't care enough about newhires to "waste" bargaining capital on them.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong (it's wrong), but that's what it is.

If first year pay at United, Delta, or AA were $36/hr, they'd still be flooded with apps. But the rate is way higher. Why? I'll give you a hint... It's not because apps quit coming in.

RJSAviator76
11-22-2018, 10:12 PM
That's like saying you'd never get a raise until you all started to quit. As in, that's not how negotiations work. The first year rate at Hawaiian is what it is because your MEC doesn't care enough about newhires to "waste" bargaining capital on them.



I'm not saying it's right or wrong (it's wrong), but that's what it is.


Someone once said:

Top of the pay scale is what your union thinks youíre worth. The first year pay is what the company thinks youíre worth.

I think thereís a lot of truth in that. Iím at Southwest and was hired before our current contract. As I recall it was the company that approached the union about disproportionally increasing the first year pay, and the reason was to stem the attrition of first year pilots.

crazycoconut
11-24-2018, 06:53 AM
Someone once said:

Top of the pay scale is what your union thinks youíre worth. The first year pay is what the company thinks youíre worth.

I think thereís a lot of truth in that. Iím at Southwest and was hired before our current contract. As I recall it was the company that approached the union about disproportionally increasing the first year pay, and the reason was to stem the attrition of first year pilots.no, first year pay is what your union thinks of you too.

when a Company negotiates they usually have a number in mind for total pilot payroll. It is up to the union to negotiate how they distribute that pot among the pilot group. All it would have taken would be for the union to lower the top rates a little bit and add that to the first year pay. Top guys would never even notice it, but it would make a big difference to first year pay. and then you could stop saying Mesa first year pilots make more than a first year HAL pilot.

ridinhigh
11-25-2018, 06:34 PM
What is Mesaís 12 year pay and how many years are you going to spend There?

At Hawaiian itís over $300 an hour and over 20 years for a pilot hired in their 30s.

I also believe it is about what the Company thinks and or wants to pay. Hawaiian is special with the only pilot base in the islands. Itís also special as the company claims to be one big happy family but if I were born into a family that didnít feed me my first year I might spend the next 30 a bit less than happy.



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