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jettdaddy72
11-01-2018, 01:24 PM
Can a current line holder flying the E175 chime in here and give me a ballpark estimate of how many credit hours you average a month flying the line?

Thank you in advance!


Cyio
11-01-2018, 01:24 PM
Can a current line holder flying the E175 chime in here and give me a ballpark estimate of how many credit hours you average a month flying the line?

Thank you in advance!

72-76, roughly.

Filler

jettdaddy72
11-01-2018, 01:28 PM
Thank you!


3GreenKSNA
11-01-2018, 02:54 PM
Here is 12 months of my actual flight time.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181101/193773372edabec35853c3a0aa9f3599.jpg

-Keep the dirty side down

RawHide
11-02-2018, 04:17 AM
Actual flight time doesnít equal pay credit hours.

3GreenKSNA
11-02-2018, 04:57 AM
Here is 12 months of my actual flight time.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181101/193773372edabec35853c3a0aa9f3599.jpg

-Keep the dirty side downBut it does give an idea of how quickly you will accrue the 950 hours required for upgrade.

-Keep the dirty side down

jettdaddy72
11-02-2018, 05:52 AM
Thank you for the quick replies. I was really looking for credit hours for pay purposes. I believe we get paid per credit hour not actual flight hours, correct?

MD-11Loader
11-02-2018, 06:37 AM
Thank you for the quick replies. I was really looking for credit hours for pay purposes. I believe we get paid per credit hour not actual flight hours, correct?

I credit around 100 every month. Fly your schedule and snag some OT and youíll be set. Trade to fly with a check airman and youíll be even more set.

Pedro4President
11-02-2018, 07:33 AM
I credit around 100 every month. Fly your schedule and snag some OT and youíll be set. Trade to fly with a check airman and youíll be even more set.

His last sentence is a bit cryptic for a new guy. If you are scheduled to fly with a check airman then they will likely displace you from your trip for IOE purposes. They then come in behind it and pick up OT so they drastically increase their pay credit. I have even seen FOs with the list of check airmen.

havick206
11-02-2018, 08:27 AM
His last sentence is a bit cryptic for a new guy. If you are scheduled to fly with a check airman then they will likely displace you from your trip for IOE purposes. They then come in behind it and pick up OT so they drastically increase their pay credit. I have even seen FOs with the list of check airmen.

Yes but make sure you pick up extra flying in days off not the days you were displaced from otherwise you wonít be credited the additional flying above your bidline guarantee

CrowneVic
11-02-2018, 10:44 AM
His last sentence is a bit cryptic for a new guy. If you are scheduled to fly with a check airman then they will likely displace you from your trip for IOE purposes. They then come in behind it and pick up OT so they drastically increase their pay credit. I have even seen FOs with the list of check airmen.

How do you know what line the check airmen are going to bid?

havick206
11-02-2018, 10:49 AM
How do you know what line the check airmen are going to bid?

He means trade into the sequences that have IOE instructors on them when the ATTOT is open.

Also if youíre senior enough in a base and know enough of the check airman just ask them their preferences. Worked for a buddy of mine in MIA for the 3-4 months before he went to upgrade.

pilotmunk
11-02-2018, 11:58 AM
His last sentence is a bit cryptic for a new guy. If you are scheduled to fly with a check airman then they will likely displace you from your trip for IOE purposes. They then come in behind it and pick up OT so they drastically increase their pay credit. I have even seen FOs with the list of check airmen.
That's exactly how I set my personal pay credit record: 196 hours with only around 90 actual flight time. Granted I was a senior FO and all OT that month was at 200% but still.

Pedro4President
11-02-2018, 12:21 PM
That's exactly how I set my personal pay credit record: 196 hours with only around 90 actual flight time. Granted I was a senior FO and all OT that month was at 200% but still.

Nice. Lots of work though. My best month was 125+ credit with less than 15 hours flown. It's been a while since I have done that. It was extremely lucky and the stars happened to align just right that month.

Also this was on reserve and not due to IOE displacement.

MD-11Loader
11-02-2018, 01:03 PM
His last sentence is a bit cryptic for a new guy. If you are scheduled to fly with a check airman then they will likely displace you from your trip for IOE purposes. They then come in behind it and pick up OT so they drastically increase their pay credit. I have even seen FOs with the list of check airmen.

Donít ever pick up flying when you have been displaced, youíre pretty much working for free. The list of check airmen is on my.envoyair. With a simple search of ďcheck airmanĒ you can find the list too and play the displacement game. I caution you though, scheduling is a cruel and tempting mistress. She has the ability to make your life not very fun if youíre displaced and subject to reassignment.

havick206
11-02-2018, 01:23 PM
Donít ever pick up flying when you have been displaced, youíre pretty much working for free. The list of check airmen is on my.envoyair. With a simple search of ďcheck airmanĒ you can find the list too and play the displacement game. I caution you though, scheduling is a cruel and tempting mistress. She has the ability to make your life not very fun if youíre displaced and subject to reassignment.

Not if you pick up OT on days off and go back up to 100 hours cumulative and force their hand so you canít be used anyway

MD-11Loader
11-02-2018, 01:25 PM
Not if you pick up OT on days off and go back up to 100 hours cumulative and force their hand so you canít be used anyway

This is true, but I was referring to picking up trips during the time youíre displaced from a line with an instructor.

havick206
11-02-2018, 01:26 PM
This is true, but I was referring to picking up trips during the time youíre displaced from a line with an instructor.

Covered earlier

EnyFlyr
11-02-2018, 01:53 PM
This is true, but I was referring to picking up trips during the time youíre displaced from a line with an instructor.

You can still pick up OT on the days u were orinigally scheduled to fly, you just need to wait until 12 noon to make sure nothing is assigned for the next day

3GreenKSNA
11-02-2018, 02:17 PM
You can still pick up OT on the days u were orinigally scheduled to fly, you just need to wait until 12 noon to make sure nothing is assigned for the next dayIt isnt paid the OT premium.

-Keep the dirty side down

havick206
11-02-2018, 02:33 PM
You can still pick up OT on the days u were orinigally scheduled to fly, you just need to wait until 12 noon to make sure nothing is assigned for the next day

Even if you wait until after noon itís still considered voluntary flying.

EnyFlyr
11-02-2018, 03:04 PM
It isnt paid the OT premium.

-Keep the dirty side down

https://image.ibb.co/jVkEdL/704913-C3-01-C0-452-B-9348-BC0-C52-EFA30-A.jpg (https://ibb.co/eapwsf)

havick206
11-02-2018, 03:33 PM
https://image.ibb.co/jVkEdL/704913-C3-01-C0-452-B-9348-BC0-C52-EFA30-A.jpg (https://ibb.co/eapwsf)

Just answered your own question. Read the last paragraph

EnyFlyr
11-02-2018, 04:08 PM
Just answered your own question. Read the last paragraph

11-10

Filler

havick206
11-02-2018, 04:40 PM
11-10

Filler

Yeah 11-10 says you can pick it up. 11-11 says you wonít get paid extra for it.

EnyFlyr
11-02-2018, 04:44 PM
Yeah 11-10 says you can pick it up. 11-11 says you wonít get paid extra for it.

Hmm i got a couple of friends who did this and got paid premium. Iíll have to check with them

3GreenKSNA
11-02-2018, 04:46 PM
It may be anecdotal, I have picked up on 3 separate occasions after getting displaced for IOE and was not paid OT for any of them.

-Keep the dirty side down

EnyFlyr
11-02-2018, 05:22 PM
It may be anecdotal, I have picked up on 3 separate occasions after getting displaced for IOE and was not paid OT for any of them.

-Keep the dirty side down

Good info then cause I was displaced this week for IOE and was tempted to appropiate a trip or two.. weird how my buddy showed me he did that hmm

havick206
11-02-2018, 05:53 PM
Hmm i got a couple of friends who did this and got paid premium. Iíll have to check with them

Just because someone got paid something, doesnít mean itís correct. Happens all the time.

It also says, regardless of how itís coded itís still considered voluntary flying.

Personally I think if you pick up flying in displaced days after noon day prior then it should be paid above guarantee as OT, but contract says otherwise.

By the way, most people have no idea how to audit their pay. Wouldnít surprise me if they think they were paid for it but actually werenít.

pilotmunk
11-02-2018, 06:33 PM
It may be anecdotal, I have picked up on 3 separate occasions after getting displaced for IOE and was not paid OT for any of them.

-Keep the dirty side down
Ok, this is not how you do it. Once you get displaced, try to trade a sequence from further into the month into something that closely follows the footprint of the sequence that you got displaced from. This way you'll free up up to four days later in the month for which you're not subject to reassignment (because those aren't the days you got displaced on). Naturally, you have to get lucky and have an open four-day available just on the right dates. But if you can do it, then any OT you get to pick up on those dates is fair game.

havick206
11-02-2018, 06:37 PM
Ok, this is not how you do it. Once you get displaced, try to trade a sequence from further into the month into something that closely follows the footprint of the sequence that you got displaced from. This way you'll free up up to four days later in the month for which you're not subject to reassignment (because those aren't the days you got displaced on). Naturally, you have to get lucky and have an open four-day available just on the right dates. But if you can do it, then any OT you get to pick up on those dates is fair game.

You do realize that this would significantly reduce your BDLN PROJ? Thatís if ATTOT even lets you trade into something on the displaced days anyway.

Do you have any idea how your BDLN PROJ vs Operational Credit buckets actually work?

pilotmunk
11-02-2018, 06:53 PM
You do realize that this would significantly reduce your BDLN PROJ? Thatís if ATTOT even lets you trade into something on the displaced days anyway.

Do you have any idea how your BDLN PROJ vs Operational Credit buckets actually work?
Yes I do know how it works (on a side note: why are you guys here so love to resort to this snarky tone "do you even know..."? Really?). ATTOT will allow the trade into displaced days just as any other trade as long as the lights are all ok. Yes, you will initially reduce the line value but then it depends on what you do next and some luck, too. That month when I had 196 hours of pay credit, I did this twice. Again, I was senior, there was plenty of OT every day that I had my first pick at, and it was all 200%. I don't remember the exact details but let's say I traded a four day worth 18 hours, so here's minus 18 hours initially. But now I had four days worth of OT to fill. It was something like roughly 26-28 block hours times 2 equal 52-56 hours pay credit. Worth it? The entire OT game is based on finding ways to get rid of as much straight pay flying by whatever means to free up your calendar for OT.

3GreenKSNA
11-02-2018, 07:14 PM
I did it for purely for making up the lost flight time to acquire the neccessary hours for this vacancy bid.

At least with quick trade once I was displaced from the sequence doing any sort of ATOT gave me an error message saying my sequence was locked and to call scheduling. Only thing that worked was submitting RF requests. Calling swaps only had about a 25% success rate and it seemed to hinge on whom I was talking to.

-Keep the dirty side down

highfarfast
11-02-2018, 07:30 PM
This thread has devolved into crew room like talk of reserve rules:

It's red.
It's not red, it's blue.
It can't be blue because it's not yellow.
Yellow doesn't have anything to do with anything.
What about orange?
The contract says nothing about orange.
Contract? What's that?

havick206
11-02-2018, 07:40 PM
Yes I do know how it works (on a side note: why are you guys here so love to resort to this snarky tone "do you even know..."? Really?). ATTOT will allow the trade into displaced days just as any other trade as long as the lights are all ok. Yes, you will initially reduce the line value but then it depends on what you do next and some luck, too. That month when I had 196 hours of pay credit, I did this twice. Again, I was senior, there was plenty of OT every day that I had my first pick at, and it was all 200%. I don't remember the exact details but let's say I traded a four day worth 18 hours, so here's minus 18 hours initially. But now I had four days worth of OT to fill. It was something like roughly 26-28 block hours times 2 equal 52-56 hours pay credit. Worth it? The entire OT game is based on finding ways to get rid of as much straight pay flying by whatever means to free up your calendar for OT.

1) Ok, so to start with as someone else already pointed out, displaced days and other planned absences will not allow you to trade trips or pick up OT on any days coded as such. It will kick back with a message requiring you to send an RF for the pick up/trade (VC days being another example).

2) critical coverage days are few and far between, depending fleet type and seat.

3) the majority of the unicorn OT trips (ie 22 hour 3 day, 27 hour 4 day) are also few and far between as they mostly get traded into in the 24 hour trip trade window by the people who donít typically pick up OT.

4) your logic of freeing up days to pick up OT is sound, but doing any flying over displaced days for straight pay is giving up the free operational credit without having the flight hours count towards timing you out. Sit at home these days getting paid for it then fly OT on actual days off.

If youíre trying to max out credit almost always you will hit your 100/28 than your 8 min days off if youíre a line holder.

Comments not intended to be snarky, but helpful. Also pointing out what the contract says, as opposed to someone getting the rare error of pay compís mistake in the pilotís favorm and claiming on here thatís the norm when it isnít.

It all comes down to efficiency and max credit per day. Sometimes youíre better off trading that crappy 11 hour 3 day for the 22 hour 3 day at straight pay, knowing that youíre going to get displaced or lose flying somewhere else in the month and retain the credit. Same days burned but twice the credit, realistically you will probably underblock that 22 hour 3 day by at least 5-6 hours and free up your cumulative flight for more OT.

Thereís not a one size fits all scenario as everything depends on a myriad of factors at play. Everyone has different strategies that work for them. But again, know what the contract says because someoneís pay comp or crew scheduler error in their favor doesnít make it the norm or correct.

pilotmunk
11-02-2018, 09:15 PM
1) Ok, so to start with as someone else already pointed out, displaced days and other planned absences will not allow you to trade trips or pick up OT on any days coded as such. It will kick back with a message requiring you to send an RF for the pick up/trade (VC days being another example).

2) critical coverage days are few and far between, depending fleet type and seat.

3) the majority of the unicorn OT trips (ie 22 hour 3 day, 27 hour 4 day) are also few and far between as they mostly get traded into in the 24 hour trip trade window by the people who donít typically pick up OT.

4) your logic of freeing up days to pick up OT is sound, but doing any flying over displaced days for straight pay is giving up the free operational credit without having the flight hours count towards timing you out. Sit at home these days getting paid for it then fly OT on actual days off.

If youíre trying to max out credit almost always you will hit your 100/28 than your 8 min days off if youíre a line holder.

Comments not intended to be snarky, but helpful. Also pointing out what the contract says, as opposed to someone getting the rare error of pay compís mistake in the pilotís favorm and claiming on here thatís the norm when it isnít.

It all comes down to efficiency and max credit per day. Sometimes youíre better off trading that crappy 11 hour 3 day for the 22 hour 3 day at straight pay, knowing that youíre going to get displaced or lose flying somewhere else in the month and retain the credit. Same days burned but twice the credit, realistically you will probably underblock that 22 hour 3 day by at least 5-6 hours and free up your cumulative flight for more OT.

Thereís not a one size fits all scenario as everything depends on a myriad of factors at play. Everyone has different strategies that work for them. But again, know what the contract says because someoneís pay comp or crew scheduler error in their favor doesnít make it the norm or correct.
Regarding your first point: I was able to trade in that very fashion some two years ago. That's a fact. Did that twice in one month (was displaced twice). They might have closed that loophole since, I don't know. If that is indeed the case now, then the whole strategy wouldn't work of course.

True about open time - it's scarce and it's usually only time and a half these days. That's why I emphasized that when I did that trick, critical coverage OT was abundant.

From experience, if you have that much flight time that you start hitting 100/28 days limitation, it's very likely that some of that time will be lost due to misconnects/cancellations which will allow you to pick up more OT in the end.

As for the contract language, nothing in the strategy that I described and successfully executed in the past is against the contract. So I'm not sure what exactly you mean.

havick206
11-03-2018, 01:17 AM
Regarding your first point: I was able to trade in that very fashion some two years ago. That's a fact. Did that twice in one month (was displaced twice). They might have closed that loophole since, I don't know. If that is indeed the case now, then the whole strategy wouldn't work of course.

True about open time - it's scarce and it's usually only time and a half these days. That's why I emphasized that when I did that trick, critical coverage OT was abundant.

From experience, if you have that much flight time that you start hitting 100/28 days limitation, it's very likely that some of that time will be lost due to misconnects/cancellations which will allow you to pick up more OT in the end.

As for the contract language, nothing in the strategy that I described and successfully executed in the past is against the contract. So I'm not sure what exactly you mean.

Every point wasnít aimed at you only some.

Other people have said OT picked up after noon prior on on displaced days is paid above projected guarantee. Not the case.

Everything else you said is kind of correct but it depends, except for using ATTOT on planned absences or displaced days. You may get the rare loophole now and again where they forget to turn this function on/off but on the whole it wonít allow it unless you call or send an RF.

Youíre case where you got 196 hours credit is impossible right night unless you used VC with DTS and used SK to cover DTS and had displaced days and picked up OT and actually flew 90+ hours. The critical coverage just isnít there anymore and the juicy OT trips are few and far between. 2 years ago was when bases were being reopened and everything was a free for all.

Pedro4President
11-03-2018, 08:11 PM
This thread has devolved into crew room like talk of reserve rules:

It's red.
It's not red, it's blue.
It can't be blue because it's not yellow.
Yellow doesn't have anything to do with anything.
What about orange?
The contract says nothing about orange.
Contract? What's that?

Someone actually posted a screenshot of the contract that specifically covers when you will get paid OT and when you don't get paid OT on days you were displaced for IOE. They are still arguing about it. That should of been the last post of the argument.

I will add one thing: Once you do this you need to advise your pay Comp auditor so it is coded correctly. Also screen shot your hi3 where it is coded OT.

highfarfast
11-03-2018, 10:33 PM
That should of been the last post of the argument.

You certainly would think so...



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