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View Full Version : Captain base seniority


greendotplus10
11-05-2018, 07:51 PM
Dedicated thread for keeping track of captain base seniority trends. I'll add updates when notable changes occur.

Nov. 2018

Base (Size)
Junior DOH - Time to move up 10 spots - Time to move up 20 spots

LGA (139)
2/2016 - 5m - 1y 3m

EWR (133)
1/2016 - 1m - 4m
(most junior out of training 12/2015)

PIT (122)
10/2015 - 6m - 1y 5m

PHL (47)
10/2015 - 2y 10m - 8y 10m
Has become 10 months more junior since September, but becomes senior quickly

CMH (149)
8/2015 - 4m - 11m
Has become 5 months more junior since September

MIA (92)
6/2015 - 1y 11m - 2y 7m

DCA (123)
4/2015 - 9m - 1y 6m

IND (175)
2/2015 - 11m - 1y 8m
Has become 4 months more junior since September

MCI (58)
8/2014 - 1y 6m - 6y 8m

IAH (25)
1/2014 - 6y 8m - 12y 11m

ORD (76)
1/2013 - 5y 9m* - 6y 6m
*Some 2012 hires can be more senior to 2007 hires.


ChopNDrop
11-06-2018, 04:33 AM
Dedicated thread for keeping track of captain base seniority trends. I'll add updates when notable changes occur.

Nov. 2018

Base (Size)
Junior DOH - Time to move up 10 spots - Time to move up 20 spots

LGA (139)
2/2016 - 5m - 1y 3m

EWR (133)
1/2016 - 1m - 4m
(most junior out of training 12/2015)

PIT (122)
10/2015 - 6m - 1y 5m

PHL (47)
10/2015 - 2y 10m - 8y 10m
Has become 10 months more junior since September, but becomes senior quickly

CMH (149)
8/2015 - 4m - 11m
Has become 5 months more junior since September

MIA (92)
6/2015 - 1y 11m - 2y 7m

DCA (123)
4/2015 - 9m - 1y 6m

IND (175)
2/2015 - 11m - 1y 8m
Has become 4 months more junior since September

MCI (58)
8/2014 - 1y 6m - 6y 8m

IAH (25)
1/2014 - 6y 8m - 12y 11m

ORD (76)
1/2013 - 5y 9m* - 6y 6m
*Some 2012 hires can be more senior to 2007 hires.


you the real MVP

greendotplus10
11-09-2018, 11:22 AM
Most junior upgrades awarded, effective March 2019

Base: Junior awarded - Difference from last bid junior awarded
LGA: SEP 2016 (just under 2y 6m) - 7m
EWR: AUG 2016 - 7m
PIT: FEB 2016 - 4m
CMH: FEB 2016 - 6m


Random Task
11-29-2018, 12:24 PM
The November Captain vacancies closed early this month with the junior award going to someone on property 2 years, 2 months.

The December vacancies will close on Dec 5th and we should see the results a few days after that.

greendotplus10
11-29-2018, 02:55 PM
The November Captain vacancies closed early this month with the junior award going to someone on property 2 years, 2 months.

The December vacancies will close on Dec 5th and we should see the results a few days after that.

Just to clarify, are you seeing a 2 year, 2 month upgrade from DOH to effective date, or to posted date?

The bid that closes on the 5th of every month is effective 4 months later, and upgrade training begins about 1 month before the effective date. A memo was sent out earlier in the month about the bid that closed November 5th, effective March 2nd. From this I was able to see that the junior upgrade was just shy of 2 years, 6 months (DOH to effective date).

Random Task
11-29-2018, 03:28 PM
Just to clarify, are you seeing a 2 year, 2 month upgrade from DOH to effective date, or to posted date?

The bid that closes on the 5th of every month is effective 4 months later, and upgrade training begins about 1 month before the effective date. A memo was sent out earlier in the month about the bid that closed November 5th, effective March 2nd. From this I was able to see that the junior upgrade was just shy of 2 years, 6 months (DOH to effective date).

Via the posted date, so that individual should be a line captain by 2 yrs 6 mos.

greendotplus10
12-06-2018, 07:15 PM
Base (size): Junior DOH / 10 above most junior DOH

LGA (145): MAR 16 / JAN 16
EWR (134): FEB 16 / DEC 15
PHL (47): JAN 16 / AUG 13
PIT (122): OCT 15 / JUL 15
CMH (148): AUG 15 / APR 15
MIA (92): JUN 15 / JUL 13
DCA (121): APR 15 / JUL 14
IND (174): FEB 15 / MAR 14
MCI (58): AUG 14 / FEB 13
IAH (25): JAN 14 / MAY 07
ORD (76): don't ask

Junior lines (hard line / *possible line)
*Bidding preferences and/or pre-assigned activities may allow you to hold a line or composite line sooner. Examples: bid single days off, allow composite lines to be awarded, PDO/vacation, recurrent training, or military duty.
LGA: APR 14 / JUL 15
PIT: APR 14 / JUN 14
DCA: JAN 14 / MAY 14
EWR: OCT 13 / NOV 15
CMH: OCT 13 / DEC 14
PHL: AUG 13
IND: AUG 12 / JAN 14
MIA: APR 12 / JUN 12
IAH: MAY 11
MCI: MAR 08 / SEP 11
ORD: JAN 07

4 month base staffing trends (SEP-DEC)
LGA +6
EWR -8
PIT +9
DCA -2
CMH +3
MIA +1
PHL 0
IND +5
MCI +3
IAH 0
ORD -10

DiveAndDrive
12-07-2018, 02:04 PM
Base (size): Junior DOH / 10 above most junior DOH

LGA (145): MAR 16 / JAN 16
EWR (134): FEB 16 / DEC 15
PHL (47): JAN 16 / AUG 13
PIT (122): OCT 15 / JUL 15
CMH (148): AUG 15 / APR 15
MIA (92): JUN 15 / JUL 13
DCA (121): APR 15 / JUL 14
IND (174): FEB 15 / MAR 14
MCI (58): AUG 14 / FEB 13
IAH (25): JAN 14 / MAY 07
ORD (76): don't ask

Junior lines (hard line / *possible line)
*Bidding preferences and/or pre-assigned activities may allow you to hold a line or composite line sooner. Examples: bid single days off, allow composite lines to be awarded, PDO/vacation, recurrent training, or military duty.
LGA: APR 14 / JUL 15
PIT: APR 14 / JUN 14
DCA: JAN 14 / MAY 14
EWR: OCT 13 / NOV 15
CMH: OCT 13 / DEC 14
PHL: AUG 13
IND: AUG 12 / JAN 14
MIA: APR 12 / JUN 12
IAH: MAY 11
MCI: MAR 08 / SEP 11
ORD: JAN 07

4 month base staffing trends (SEP-DEC)
LGA +6
EWR -8
PIT +9
DCA -2
CMH +3
MIA +1
PHL 0
IND +5
MCI +3
IAH 0
ORD -10

I forgot this was CAPTAIN base seniority, and almost had a stroke. Thanks for sharing!

Longhornmaniac8
12-09-2018, 06:24 PM
Via the posted date, so that individual should be a line captain by 2 yrs 6 mos.

To piggyback on this with the December 2018 Awards/Seniority List now published, the most junior captain backfill award was an 11/29/2016 hire. This means that individual was awarded, for all intents and purposes, right at 2 years, meaning 2 years 3 months until they go to training, and 2 years 4 months until they're on the line.

The number is certainly coming down...just how far it will go (and if it stays there) I suppose is anyone's guess.

170driver
12-10-2018, 06:57 AM
To piggyback on this with the December 2018 Awards/Seniority List now published, the most junior captain backfill award was an 11/29/2016 hire. This means that individual was awarded, for all intents and purposes, right at 2 years, meaning 2 years 3 months until they go to training, and 2 years 4 months until they're on the line.



The number is certainly coming down...just how far it will go (and if it stays there) I suppose is anyone's guess.



I hope it stays right where itís at...


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greendotplus10
12-16-2018, 01:31 PM
You've been waiting for it, and it has finally arrived.

The image quality as an attachment is too poor so here is a Google Drive link:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1twNisdQvX0K9QqZHf1d0Qc6gtplE621S

**Previously edited to try to make the attachment more legible**

knewyork
12-16-2018, 03:21 PM
You've been waiting for it, and it has finally arrived.

The image quality as an attachment is too poor so here is a Google Drive link:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1twNisdQvX0K9QqZHf1d0Qc6gtplE621S

**Previously edited to try to make the attachment more legible**

Nice!! But I will say the last column seems misleading. For example in EWR, while currently the most junior line holders have been at the company for 5 years or so, this is likely to come down to 3.5. It most likely will not take 2 years to get a line in EWR. There is a large gap between recent upgrades and the bulk of 5 year guys because there are so few 2014 hires.

greendotplus10
12-16-2018, 06:54 PM
Nice!! But I will say the last column seems misleading. For example in EWR, while currently the most junior line holders have been at the company for 5 years or so, this is likely to come down to 3.5. It most likely will not take 2 years to get a line in EWR. There is a large gap between recent upgrades and the bulk of 5 year guys because there are so few 2014 hires.

Good to know. The table is a work in progress and there's also bound to be exceptions to some of the data. This is one of them, thanks for that insight.

knewyork
12-17-2018, 06:02 AM
Good to know. The table is a work in progress and there's also bound to be exceptions to some of the data. This is one of them, thanks for that insight.

Yeah no worries. Overall itís a great chart. Nice work.

Viking6
12-17-2018, 07:36 AM
Also remember the number of reserve line vary by time of year. I know several junior captains who were awarded great composite lines. Normally not a lot of credit, but 15 plus days off.

jslehman1
12-18-2018, 03:27 PM
Also remember the number of reserve line vary by time of year. I know several junior captains who were awarded great composite lines. Normally not a lot of credit, but 15 plus days off.

So the captains sitting reserve are getting only minimum guarantee for the year or so they are on reserve or do they have the opportunity to get more credit hours?

greendotplus10
12-18-2018, 04:19 PM
So the captains sitting reserve are getting only minimum guarantee for the year or so they are on reserve or do they have the opportunity to get more credit hours?

As Viking6 said the number of reserves varies by season. As a reserve FO I was seeing 25-55 hours of flying per month (more in the summer, less this time of year), and I would think it is similar for captains. Even working all of your reserve days in my experience it would be difficult to break min guarantee. I know we can pick up premium pay (yellow/red flag) on days off, but I'm not sure how that pays because I haven't done it.

jslehman1
12-18-2018, 04:31 PM
As Viking6 said the number of reserves varies by season. As a reserve FO I was seeing 25-55 hours of flying per month (more in the summer, less this time of year), and I would think it is similar for captains. Even working all of your reserve days in my experience it would be difficult to break min guarantee. I know we can pick up premium pay (yellow/red flag) on days off, but I'm not sure how that pays because I haven't done it.

I understand that breaking 75 hrs on reserve is probably impossible, but I wasnít sure if you could fly on days off for extra pay.

TheWeatherman
12-18-2018, 05:16 PM
I understand that breaking 75 hrs on reserve is probably impossible, but I wasnít sure if you could fly on days off for extra pay.
I broke 75 hours once on Reserve, so it is not impossible. Yes, you can pick up extra flying on your days off, but remember you will only have 12 days off so it will be hard to do so and stay Part 117 compliant. Not impossible, but it makes it hard to be efficient.

4V14T0R
12-19-2018, 08:44 AM
I broke 75 hours once on Reserve, so it is not impossible. Yes, you can pick up extra flying on your days off, but remember you will only have 12 days off so it will be hard to do so and stay Part 117 compliant. Not impossible, but it makes it hard to be efficient.



Staying within 117 is the easy part. Maintaining your sanity while working too many days into your 12 off is much harder.


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TheWeatherman
12-19-2018, 08:59 AM
Staying within 117 is the easy part. Maintaining your sanity while working too many days into your 12 off is much harder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The issue comes when trying to pick up a trip immediately before or after a multi-day reserve period. Since they treat each reserve duty as a full FDP whether you were called in or not, I found it very difficult to pick up trips unless I had a day off buffer in-between. But you are right, the other hard part is the lack of days off you will have when picking up extra time while on reserve.

4V14T0R
12-19-2018, 09:00 AM
The issue comes when trying to pick up a trip immediately before or after a multi-day reserve period. Since they treat each reserve duty as a full FDP whether you were called in or not, I found it very difficult to pick up trips unless I had a day off buffer in-between. But you are right, the other hard part is the lack of days off you will have when picking up extra time while on reserve.



If you can, try and pick up flying into or out of your reserve period then you donít have that issue.


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knewyork
12-21-2018, 05:53 PM
44 CA vacancies for May. Wow. What for? I donít see that many CAs leaving. Wonder what they have planned.

Also people on here were talking about breaking min gaurantee, itís very easy to do as a new CA. At least in EWR, itís been very easy to do. So far Iíve done around 115, 118, and 105 in the first few months as CA. Between 12-15 days off too if you include the rsv days they didnít call me. Which have been plenty. Lots of reserves.

Longhornmaniac8
12-21-2018, 08:15 PM
44 CA vacancies for May. Wow. What for? I donít see that many CAs leaving. Wonder what they have planned.

Also people on here were talking about breaking min gaurantee, itís very easy to do as a new CA. At least in EWR, itís been very easy to do. So far Iíve done around 115, 118, and 105 in the first few months as CA. Between 12-15 days off too if you include the rsv days they didnít call me. Which have been plenty. Lots of reserves.

I noticed that too. All you need to do is look at the staffing projections to see we're really long on FOs right now. Even the upgrades won't help stem that tide until we get to the postponed classes.

Unfortunately for people like me, I'm expecting the reserve times to get longer.

I also noticed there were 4 ORD FO vacancies...that's the first time in 2 or 3 months, no?

As a sidenote, during the first days of Indoc, they showed in FLICA how to see how many pilots in a given base were awarded a line/composite line. Is there a way to do that and I'm just forgetting?

Viking6
12-22-2018, 04:15 AM
44 CA vacancies for May. Wow. What for? I donít see that many CAs leaving. Wonder what they have planned.

Also people on here were talking about breaking min gaurantee, itís very easy to do as a new CA. At least in EWR, itís been very easy to do. So far Iíve done around 115, 118, and 105 in the first few months as CA. Between 12-15 days off too if you include the rsv days they didnít call me. Which have been plenty. Lots of reserves.


Being on reserve and picking up open time on your days off is the way to go. Have to live in base, or spend extra time Iím crash pad though.

Viking6
12-22-2018, 04:21 AM
I noticed that too. All you need to do is look at the staffing projections to see we're really long on FOs right now. Even the upgrades won't help stem that tide until we get to the postponed classes.

Unfortunately for people like me, I'm expecting the reserve times to get longer.

I also noticed there were 4 ORD FO vacancies...that's the first time in 2 or 3 months, no?

As a sidenote, during the first days of Indoc, they showed in FLICA how to see how many pilots in a given base were awarded a line/composite line. Is there a way to do that and I'm just forgetting?


ORD FO is very attainable! Usually have vacancies every couple months. CA is pretty much impossible though

TheWeatherman
12-22-2018, 09:04 AM
ORD FO is very attainable! Usually have vacancies every couple months. CA is pretty much impossible though
Yeah,m same thing last year. Vacancies closed as reduced winter flying hit. They open up again and will remain open with vacancies through the spring and summer until next winter.

knewyork
12-23-2018, 05:30 AM
Being on reserve and picking up open time on your days off is the way to go. Have to live in base, or spend extra time Iím crash pad though.

I should have added that Iím home based and I should consider that an unused day at the crash pad is definitely not an off day. Just to clarify for people.

greendotplus10
12-23-2018, 08:27 AM
44 CA vacancies for May. Wow. What for? I donít see that many CAs leaving. Wonder what they have planned.
Great to see this. This is the second highest CA vacancy number I've seen since I've been keeping track. This one also isn't predominantly LGA/EWR. 4 openings in every base except ORD, and 8 in IAH alone. 8 more captains in IAH is a big jump since it's been so small and hasn't really grown since it opened.
As a sidenote, during the first days of Indoc, they showed in FLICA how to see how many pilots in a given base were awarded a line/composite line. Is there a way to do that and I'm just forgetting?
You can look for the FO and CA final awards/schedules under the Pref bidding tab. These documents let you see everyone's schedules. Cross reference a fixed seniority number or name with a master seniority list (from Comply, or the monthly "cover sheet" in FLICA) to determine dates of hire.

Longhornmaniac8
12-23-2018, 08:58 PM
Great to see this. This is the second highest CA vacancy number I've seen since I've been keeping track. This one also isn't predominantly LGA/EWR. 4 openings in every base except ORD, and 8 in IAH alone. 8 more captains in IAH is a big jump since it's been so small and hasn't really grown since it opened.

You can look for the FO and CA final awards/schedules under the Pref bidding tab. These documents let you see everyone's schedules. Cross reference a fixed seniority number or name with a master seniority list (from Comply, or the monthly "cover sheet" in FLICA) to determine dates of hire.

Cheers! Thanks for that. I seem to have gotten the info out of it. It's not perfect, but it works reasonably well!

As an aside, there are lots of abbreviations in the awards/schedules (e.g. FLA, MDA, V24, etc...). Is there a location where we can get those deciphered? The reserve ones I get.

Lastly, any idea why the schedules for January don't show the 31st?

Web265
12-24-2018, 05:52 AM
Lastly, any idea why the schedules for January don't show the 31st?

If you look at the FLICA notes page it says "January is a 30 day bid-month. Jan 01-Jan 30." Which I'm going to guess means that the 31st will be bid for next month. (I'm new at this as well so that's a WAG)

4V14T0R
12-24-2018, 06:27 AM
If you look at the FLICA notes page it says "January is a 30 day bid-month. Jan 01-Jan 30." Which I'm going to guess means that the 31st will be bid for next month. (I'm new at this as well so that's a WAG)



Thatís correct. Feb is also a 30 day month (31 in leap year) with March 1 during the Feb bid month.


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Ihavenoidea
01-08-2019, 08:26 PM
Still learning how the industry works so bear with me. Letís say Iím an indy based FO thatís elegible for upgrade after two years on property. However I notice that the earliest Indy based captain is someone thatís had three years on prooperty (all hypothetical). Could I defer my upgrade for another year and hold Indy as a captain right after training, or in other words never be based anywhere else? Sounds too good to be true but please let me know!

DiveAndDrive
01-08-2019, 08:40 PM
Yes. Filler.

TheWeatherman
01-09-2019, 05:22 AM
Still learning how the industry works so bear with me. Letís say Iím an indy based FO thatís elegible for upgrade after two years on property. However I notice that the earliest Indy based captain is someone thatís had three years on prooperty (all hypothetical). Could I defer my upgrade for another year and hold Indy as a captain right after training, or in other words never be based anywhere else? Sounds too good to be true but please let me know!
Yes you can and there are a lot of other Regionals where you cannot, you get forced upgraded right when you hit the mins.

greendotplus10
01-10-2019, 03:25 PM
The latest table is hot off the press, and it reveals some interesting changes.

First, congratulations to all who received a May award!

Highlights
The large number of captain vacancies posted last month (effective 5/1) has brought upgrade times down several months in the historically more senior bases.

DCA and MCI will be about 1 year more junior in May.

IAH wins the award for greatest improvement, at 1.5 years more junior. There were 8 vacancies posted and filled in IAH alone. Some growth for IAH looks to be in the works.

One can now hold any base as captain within 1 year of the junior upgrade (except ORD, sorry). I'm not sure if this is likely to continue however. I think what will be needed is a steady stream of vacancies and backfills appropriate for the size of each base.

About the tables
I've made some changes in an effort to present the data as best as I can. It continues to be a work in progress and suggestions are welcome.

Gravity88x
01-10-2019, 03:41 PM
The latest table is hot off the press, and it reveals some interesting changes.

First, congratulations to all who received a May award!

Highlights
The large number of captain vacancies posted last month (effective 5/1) has brought upgrade times down several months in the historically more senior bases.

DCA and MCI will be about 1 year more junior in May.

IAH wins the award for greatest improvement, at 1.5 years more junior. There were 8 vacancies posted and filled in IAH alone. Some growth for IAH looks to be in the works.

One can now hold any base as captain within 1 year of the junior upgrade (except ORD, sorry). I'm not sure if this is likely to continue however. I think what will be needed is a steady stream of vacancies and backfills appropriate for the size of each base.

About the tables
I've made some changes in an effort to present the data as best as I can. It continues to be a work in progress and suggestions are welcome.

Thank you so much for doing this. This is good work. You aught to post it in the Facebook groups

Random Task
01-10-2019, 07:39 PM
The latest table is hot off the press, and it reveals some interesting changes.

First, congratulations to all who received a May award!

Highlights
The large number of captain vacancies posted last month (effective 5/1) has brought upgrade times down several months in the historically more senior bases.

DCA and MCI will be about 1 year more junior in May.

IAH wins the award for greatest improvement, at 1.5 years more junior. There were 8 vacancies posted and filled in IAH alone. Some growth for IAH looks to be in the works.

One can now hold any base as captain within 1 year of the junior upgrade (except ORD, sorry). I'm not sure if this is likely to continue however. I think what will be needed is a steady stream of vacancies and backfills appropriate for the size of each base.

About the tables
I've made some changes in an effort to present the data as best as I can. It continues to be a work in progress and suggestions are welcome.

Looks great. Thanks man

05Duramax
01-10-2019, 09:13 PM
Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated. I was under the impression IND was a junior captain base. According to the latest upgrades is it now the 2nd most senior base behind ORD? Am I reading this right? That seems kind of crazy.

greendotplus10
01-10-2019, 11:51 PM
Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated. I was under the impression IND was a junior captain base. According to the latest upgrades is it now the 2nd most senior base behind ORD? Am I reading this right? That seems kind of crazy.

That is what the numbers are showing. I wouldn't say that IND has been a junior captain base though. For certain reasons it's more popular than the other large bases. What's crazy is, 70% of the IND captains have 10 years or more of seniority, so they obviously like something about it! It could be stuff like: they like living there, favorable commute options (FDX base), or characteristics that were once favorable, but now the seniority they have is worth more than leaving.

But, it looks like it's trying to get better. The time-to-hold difference between the junior captain 4 months ago, and the junior captain in May, will be almost a year. It's just that the other senior bases have shown greater improvement, so IND has moved down on the list overall.

As fancy as the data looks, it's not predictive beyond the May awards. It could look a lot different when someone upgrades later in the year, next year, and beyond. We can only hope the trends will indicate it'll change for the better.

Random Task
02-09-2019, 04:50 PM
Junior captain awarded Feb 8th is a 3/21/2017 hire. This individual will be a line captain at 2 years 2 months on property.

DragonFlyer14
02-10-2019, 03:35 PM
Junior captain awarded Feb 8th is a 3/21/2017 hire. This individual will be a line captain at 2 years 2 months on property.

With the airline being somewhat over staffed, are new hires also expected to upgrade in 2.2 years or is it believed that upgrade time is going to increase again Iím the future?

greendotplus10
02-10-2019, 04:22 PM
With the airline being somewhat over staffed, are new hires also expected to upgrade in 2.2 years or is it believed that upgrade time is going to increase again Iím the future?



No guarantees. This thread is the best we can do. Keep track of how things take shape on the captain side over time, and then hope to upgrade before those trends change for the worse. Unfortunately in a best case scenario thatís still a multi-year process.

If I ran an airline, new hires would be given upgrade eligibility dates the first day of class.

Ihavenoidea
03-25-2019, 09:50 PM
Anyone know if itís still 3+ years to hold anything other than EWR or LGA as a captain?

TheWeatherman
03-26-2019, 04:27 AM
Anyone know if itís still 3+ years to hold anything other than EWR or LGA as a captain?

It changes all the time. Heck , PHL is the most junior Captain base right now. So who knows, not something you need to worry about until a few months from upgrading.



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